The Alpha and Omega, The Master of Music, The Prince of Poetry, The Bard of Bacchus, The Noonday Man, Richard Wagnerhttps://youtu.be/J7ismqVZkgQThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>128924398
goddamn it I was just about to start creating the new myself, doing an Annie Fischer edition. Oh well. Thanks for making it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFWzkwm9N4k
>>128941289One of my fav pianists
>>128941289>female performerNot listening!
reposting this podcast I came across by a pianist documenting her learning Chopin's Nocturnes and immersing herself in his life to gain a deeper understanding of his music, and how to interpret the piecesone of the episodes, Ep. 6https://open.spotify.com/episode/1usL0lh3XumPyKxTiUdUt1link to prev post>>128941107and link to the recording itselfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cTu5eI3zHE&list=OLAK5uy_k8n5UGlP9d7mebMw5i_KSNYIDA1Zr31tQ&index=11and again, if the ChoFan/RachAnon is around, I hope you check it out, since I know you're really into this kind of stuff (formal music analysis), and of course it's about one of if not your favorite composer and his music
>>128940769what did they do with the NES
>>128941263
>you can't just compress orchestral compositions into piano and make it sound goo-ACKhttps://youtu.be/3BZseuH0-0I
>>128941392The argument was that Mahler's orchestral compositions don't compress well into piano music, which itself is already questionable, but if anything that puts Mahler's music in a better light, as it can express something that not a single instrument is capable of expressing.
>>128941392>>128941416speaking of which, and relating to the argument in the last thread, here's an arrangement of Mahler 6 for solo pianohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlWLFpb-j_Yand here's the Andante arranged for Four Hands by the composer Zemlinsky!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXGiPlHp7q8There's a recording of the Zemlinsky one but I haven't had any luck on finding it anywhere to listen or download, sadly
>Less is more.No, actually. MORE is MORE.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpcGfEHlqS8&list=OLAK5uy_kWtuA8N3dLxu8dMH-B07SY7wCUwZIvpv4&index=1
>>128941416>>128941438Sorry but Stravinsky is like 10x more complex when it comes to symphonic harmonies and arrangement. The simple fact is that Mahler is just not popular enough to have good arrangements on piano (that arrangement you linked was ass) and he himself was not good enough to write for piano
>>128941478>Stravinsky>more complex than Mahler in arrangementSigh.
>>128941438Listening to this truly exposes piano as the unexpressive instrument it is. Not that it makes piano a bad instrument.
>>128941478>(that arrangement you linked was ass)excuse you, the first one was done by a contemporary professional arranger/musician/composer (Iain Farrington), and the second one, which sounds divine, by /classical/'s favorite neglected modernist and personal friend of Mahler, Zemlinsky
>>128941497>le sighOk Reddit >>128941529>contemporary "professional" arranger Ah that explains it
>>128941438Not sure if the andante simply translates well to the piano or if it's a good arrangement. Sounds like a slow Beethoven sonata movement. Beautiful.
>>128941252>we return to transcriptions of piano to choral music,>which would indeed sound terribleI already proved you wrong with the Bach fugue. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSUt23aW4vMWhat you mean to say is that Mahler and Bruckner just never wrote great music, and thus they can't be transcribed outside of their singular timbral form without great laughter involved. For real composers, this is not an issue. >Innovations per capitaWe have already been over this, but there is no possible way for Dutton to decide what defines as "major innovation" or not. Its nothing but a random opinion put onto graph. The only "objective" idea of musical worth was the other bait graph that shows Mozart and Beethoven are worth more than everyone else and also Bach is over every single romantic composer. According to Dutton's actual theories - not his arbitrary random opinions on a graph - the IQ would have already been declining in the period of the romantics. >I don't agree with such notionYes well, your opinions are as they are, I already noted that in my previous post.
Mahler on his musical methods and ideals (direct quotation):>we moderns >get rid of the piano! Get rid of the violin!>we also have to make a lot of noise
>>128941478this has to be a troll
I just can't get into Wagner. Opera is trash
>>128941438Sounds like an OST for a shite movie I wish I never watched. Dreadful stuff.
>>128941578This has to be the most arbitrary chart ive seen posted here.
>>128941578>I already proved you wrong with the Bach fugue.I already knew Bach fugues would sound good for any instrument. Medtner, Chopin, Scriabin piano music? At least half of it would be unlistenable.>Its nothing but a random opinion put onto graph. So is this entire conversation, or any other statistical data, idea, theory or book.And according to the theory and the available intercorrelated data, IQ decline would begin in 19th century, and its effects would be unnoticable before 20th century. Yet another graph shows a very similar trend.
>>128941599Feel free to prove me wrong. Mahler is alright, but he's THE prototypical "le cinematic music" composer with some dumb gimmicks thrown in. His music doesn't have much depth and other orchestral composers easily mog him which is why he is usually pretty low on those lists.
Arse NY's heart was in the right place. I want to see a city transformed into an orchestra
Always wanted to be one of those cool cats with a blue sax. Turns out its not even an instrument that they use in classical. Thinking of getting a basset clarinet instead
>>128941599I admire your naïveté. Once you've been here long enough you will realize that posts like this truly are someone's unfiltered dogshit opinion.
>>128941696>basset clarinetJust looked this shit up and wtf canada's nation anthem totally plagarized mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiB7eOOOhm0
>>128941613https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPBRKtPgCtY
>>128941724It's not really debatable Stravinsky is much more complex than Mahler but you too, feel free to prove me wrong
anyone click links for orchestra's playing something on youtube because there is a cute girl on the thumbnail?
Which one of these would you click on?
>>128941768No, I almost always stay away from those kinds of live recordings. But I understand the impulse.>>128941789None, I continue looking for the video that has a thumbnail of an album cover or score.
>>128941761Listen to this. Actually listen to it as well, don't just jerk off to Korean girls and listen to it on the side. Its not just about the notes they play, its also about the notes they don't playhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOddn8-35c0
>>128941789Any of them really. Love his expression at the top, like he is listening to some dank ass riffs
shoebarts 8th unfinished sesame chicken pad thai
>>128941789The first one, looks old and has more sovl, and probably doesn't have the cringy clapping prelude or some youtube channel intro.
let's see how Eric Lu, the winner of the 2025 Chopin Piano Competition, doeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVRyPikm-Ms&list=OLAK5uy_nLKxycnR_J_M1v9-ZC48CGZVDKXLojEsw&index=6>The Chopin Competition confirms the timelessness of the music of the brilliant Polish composer, from the very beginning it is far more than just a music tournament of the highest level. Attracting a growing number of pianistic talents from all over the world (452 entries in 2015, more than 650 in 2025!), it draws the attention of not only the international music community and music lovers, but also those who have little contact with classical music on a daily basis. In Poland it is a kind of national holiday, a headline event; on a global scale it is one of the most important music events. The names of the subsequent winners, like their predecessors, belong to the pantheon of world pianism: Maurizio Pollini, Martha Argerich, Garrick Ohlsson, Krystian Zimerman, Stanislav Bunin, Dang Thai Son, Kevin Kenner, Philippe Giusiano, Yundi Li, Rafal Blechacz, Yulianna Avdeeva, Seong-Jin Cho and the winner of the last Competition - Bruce Liu.
Everytime I take a shit I use the time to think of a new motif I could use if I ever wrote a piece. If I ever think of something I think is worthwhile I have a tascam in one of the cubby drawers and will whip it out. You can hear the splash of the toilet in some of the recordings. concerto for 1 toilet bowl
>>128941636Apparently its based on citation numbers or something, which is not a great mark for artistic worth, and if it was, it would only really mark someone's influence of idea, rather than overall quality, which would at least possibly explain why Liszt is there, but not why Stravinsky is. Then again I haven't truly given Stravinsky a fair shake as a whole, so perhaps I am wrong about that. >>128941648>I already knew Bach fugues would sound good for any instrument. Medtner, Chopin, Scriabin piano music? At least half of it would be unlistenable.Medtner is lucky to even have performances on his main instrument because of his heavy filter and lack of popularity, while Chopin/Scriabin wouldn't have something as niche as a choir arrangement. Regardless why do you believe piano music couldn't translate to voice lol?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33p6yz8uLZII mean it might even be a preferable form, I would love a fully realized rendition of this (certainly more-so than yet another Beethoven piano cycle no one wants or needs), an instrument is nothing but a method of taking the abstract form on paper into the physical reality. >So is this entire conversation, or any other statistical data, idea, theory or book.Certainly not an opinion you should be stating when you cling to pseudo-"objective" nonsense like Dutton, who himself cried about Concorde despite there being supersonic jets in the military that had no issue, mostly because he doesn't bother to think before he publishes.
>>128941870Excellent info.
>>128941789>>128941768I don't click just because they are in the thumbnail but I will start crushing on certain girls I see, especially if they are talented. God I just want them to release their spit valves on me
>>128941804Pathetic attempt at sounding like Beethoven
>>128941263how do you get sheet music that actually stays open on the stand? my music stand only has flimsy wire arms to hold it open and they're not strong enough. is this a music stand issue or did i buy the wrong kind of sheet music (it came in more of a book format, picrel)
Medtner on firetrucking and timbral fascinations (direct quotation):>SONORITY. (Dynamics, colour, the quality of sound) Sonority has acquired the greatest importance in our material age, for the very reason that it is a very materialistic element, a great many people are enticed by a conclusion such as this: since everything sounds - melody, harmony, rhythm, etc. - sonority in itself must be the principal element which coordinates all the others. This conclusion is characterized by extreme inertness. Yes, precisely because everything sounds, not only melody, harmony, rhythm, but the automobile, the factory whistle, and the charming little voice of the pretty woman, which may be commonly called melodious, but which has nothing in common with musical melody - precisely because all of this, sonority in itself has the least capacity for personifying and coordinating the fundamental senses of the musical language. >Sonority can never become a theme. While the other elements appeal to our spirit, soul, feeling, and thought, sonority in itself, being a quality of sound, appeals to our auditory sensation, to the taste of our ear, which in itself is capable merely of increasing, or weakening, our pleasure in the qualities of the object, but can in no wise determine its substance or value.Medtner's book is great, and its clear he believes in Platonic forms when he speaks of music. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rt2pJ2AFpY
speaking of a Wagner edition and piano arrangements, check this recording out, it combines both!Das Rheingold, WWV 86A: Einzug der Götter in Walhall (Arr. for Piano by Louis Brassin & Nikolai Lugansky)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TApEdMQKjvY&list=OLAK5uy_ny5oGDLCx8mRknDqST4M7DWkFIF6fn_Sg&index=2Götterdämmerung, WWV 86D (Arr. for Piano by Nikolai Lugansky) : Zu neuen Taten, teurer Helde. Liebesduett von Brünnhilde und Siegfriedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XthSaWeuarc&list=OLAK5uy_ny5oGDLCx8mRknDqST4M7DWkFIF6fn_Sg&index=4Tristan und Isolde, WWV 90: Isoldens Liebestod aus Tristan und Isolde, S. 447 (Arr. for Piano by Franz Liszt)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nkI_PKdgTQ&list=OLAK5uy_ny5oGDLCx8mRknDqST4M7DWkFIF6fn_Sg&index=8among other pieces
>>128941789if it's not in black & white i won't let it be my first listen of a piece
Mahler - Symphony for the 6 Gorillion
>>128941946>LuganskyListening!
>>128941877>Apparently its based on citation numbers or somethingkek, we deadass h-indexing composers?
anyone know where i can learn different fingerings for the brahms violin concerto? they're not marked in any sheet music i've seen
>>128942033>we deadassPost immediately hidden and left unread.
>>128941877>while Chopin/Scriabin wouldn't have something as niche as a choir arrangement.I've heard Chopin's orchestral and string quartet arrangements and they were quite bad. The choral arrangement would be even worse, besides for chorales like the middle section of 2nd scherzo, it would sound inorganic, chaotic and vulgar. You can try to arrange some bits yourself on musescore and compare it to other arrangements, it's easy but would take some time and effort.>Regardless why do you believe piano music couldn't translate to voice lol?Because piano music is composed with instrument's capabilities in mind. Going as far that rules of harmony are literally neglected in Beethoven's music, dom 7ths and 9ths, while naturally resolving downward in every other arrangement, often 'resolve' upwards due to the limitations. Rapid arpeggios, wide leaps (which are impossible to sing unless composed in strict contrapuntal idiom where each voice follows absolute smooth voice leading), sustained chords via pedal, dense polyphony (which gets progressively harder in choirs, which can only handle chorales, not something like XIV or XI contrapunctus lol) and percussive attacks/decays, voice register differences among other things.Choral music is idiomatic to human voice, natural breath points, legato etc etc. Bach's cantatas are vastly different from Art of Fugue and fugues/canons from WTC and Goldberg Variations in almost every way. Some fugues may be translated, others, especially the chromatic ones, would be impossible to transcribe. And with Scriabin it would be even more ridiculous to even attempt such a feat.>Concorde despite there being supersonic jets in the military that had no issueLol. There is a difference between passenger planes and millitary planes.
>>128942043Ask your teacher.
>>128942050i don't have one :(
>>128942052Well then I would just try out different fingerings and see how they feel, that's how I do it at the piano. Also, sometimes the fingerings that are marked in a particular edition aren't what is best for your particular hands, so you should try out your own fingerings anyway.
>>128942047Okay I might not have been entirely correct about AoF, contrapunctus I IS performable, but as we see they didn't attempt contrapunctus XI with a choir, maybe they could've, but it's besides the point. I don't see any choral chromatic fantasia and fugue out there!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6sUlZa-IrU
>>128941922Mozart was dead when Beethoven came into his stride.
>>128942089>I don't see any choral chromatic fantasia and fugue out there!That's because you're an uneducated retard https://youtu.be/vcx-4olgf10
Ive been lurking for a couple days now, do you guys just talk circles about the same five composers day in and day out?
>>128942047>I've heard Chopin's orchestral and string quartet arrangements >they were quite bad.Must....resist...urge...to mock...>which are impossible to singIncorrect. One would just need a rather large choir with dedicated organization where each individual is used as a key of the keyboard. A full 88 group would be ideal, but completely unnecessary, the hands only have 10 fingers for notes at a time, but taking into account peddle use, then perhaps a group of 20 might suffice, or ten for each range, total 40. Thats assuming worst case scenario, even in the group of 40, the vast majority would simply be standing around doing nothing the vast majority of the time.It would be an undertaking for such a thing, just as it is harder to get together 4 string players for a piece instead of a single organist, and its why keyboards of any form are the preferred instrument of the vast majority of composers. That being said, there is no issue with such a thing, only a lack of will. Musical form is abstracted paperwork, instruments are only the material sound. >There is a difference between passenger planes and millitary planes.Yes, one has to provide monetary worth, the other military worth, however Dutton refused such ideas and simply stated that supersonic jets could not be maintained by the lower IQ world, despite that lower IQ world maintaining them in every country for years and years. The fact is that he simply isn't a very deep thinker, he just convinces himself of whatever he wishes was real.
>>128942134pretty much yeah
>>128942018It's good!>>128942134No, but of course the better ones will be talked about more often, and the best ones most often of all.
>>128942134Just the other week I posted a bunch of lesser-known 20th century and even contemporary composers, and everyone here likes the lesser-known romantic composers.
>>128941946Can people transcribe something from Tristan other than the prelude or liebestod? I'm getting kind of tired of only hearing those excerpts.
>>128942167>It's good!Honestly it wasn't that great, Fagner's OST without his theater movie just doesn't work.
>>128942167>>128942167>the better ones will be talked about more often, and the best ones most often of all.Then why are we still talking about Mussorgsky and Mahler?
>>128941944holy fucking based he just described everything wrong with modern music
>>128942135>One would just need a rather large choir with dedicated organization where each individual is used as a key of the keyboard. A full 88 group would be ideal...Even with such forces a choir trying to imiatate piano would sound unidiomatic and likely struggle to deliver even half the effect that piano would. And yes some passages are unthinkable in choral context, where polyphony is already hard, add in rapid arpeggios and runs, it becomes an impossible task. And if we CAN go as far to use non-standard choirs (group of 20 or 88), then we can go as far to transcribe Mahler's symphonies for 3 of 4 pianos of varying timbres optimizing for orchestral textures, then it would sound closer to the original and more intricate than any piano piece.The problem here is, we're not getting anywhere with those "what ifs". You and I are not conductors, nor composers, and music "in theory" matters not. You can ask their opinions and I'm certain they would agree with me.>one has to provide monetary worth, the other military worthOne is also bigger, less sustainable, harder to operate, and would need mass productions to have a reasonable effect on economy, the other still functions, but will likely cease to exist as did concorde in a few generations.
>>128942200Low musical iq needs visuals.
>>128942232Those anons are debating a specific subject.
I had never bothered with Carmina Burana, assuming one of a million boring religious cantatas. That is, until now. Holy shit, this work simply blows my pea-brained head off my shoulders, I completely understand why it has remained a perennial favourite for 90 consecutive years. And yes, I am aware of its Stravinskyan antecedents (Les Noces was equally, if not more mind-blowing), but Orff managed to distill that avantgarde inventiveness into perfectly accessible, gripping form. Is there anything else quite like it (besides the rest of Trionfi, which I'm getting around to)?
>>128942134there is literally zero point in talking about anything other than Bach Mozart and late Beethoven
>>128942200Oh, well, thanks for giving it a try.
>>128942232Kek
>>128942200Bruckner famously loved Wagner's music and never paid attention to the plots (he kept his eyes closed during performances)also he is loved by people who don't even know German before they read any translation of this librettos
>>128942284>Bruckner famously loved Wagner's musicExplains why he also couldn't write good music.
>>128942133>hasn't even heard of BWV 903>posts literal spaghettiHow does it feel being mentally disabled?
>>128942267Not true, we also talk about Medtner here.
>>128942293get some ear surgery before posting
>>128942134Yes.>>128942232Because Mahler is the greatest Austro-German and Mussorgsky is quite good, of course!>>128942267You mean Chopin, Schumann and Mahler, surely? Zero point in talking about anything other than the romantics.
>>128942246>hen we can go as far to transcribe Mahler's symphonies for 3 of 4 pianos of varying timbresIncorrect, you are asking for varying timbres because you know his music has bad form and cannot survive without it, where-as the large grouping of choir is only to achieve the required notes of the work, with the majority of choir to be essentially useless in the majority of the work. >we're not getting anywhere with those "what ifs". The only person forcing "what ifs" is yourself, we already have Mahler on piano - its garbage, we already have Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven on choir - its great. Everything about your stance and modernist timbre fascinations is refuted in its totality here by Medtner himself >>128941944. Ultimately its just you left trying to find a specific situation in which you might get away with a draw instead of a loss. >One is also bigger, less sustainable, harder to operate, and would need mass productions to have a reasonable effect on economy, the other still functions, but will likely cease to exist as did concorde in a few generations.You mean one needs to actually be affordable for a citizen (not a government printing machine) and have a real purpose in a world where anyone can simply face time across the planet in less than a second. In addition to not causing sonic booms over people's living spaces 365 days of the years. Anyone thinking military jets will cease to exist in a few generations because of a lack of maintenance is deluded, there is quite literally nothing to back that up besides your wishful fantasies.
>>128942326Shame Bruckner couldn't do the same, maybe he might have been able to finally compose a single solo piece anyone wanted to listen to or play. The organ player with no respected organ piece, Loving Every Laugh.
>>128942338even if we were retarded enough to only talk about Romantics, that list being "Chopin Schumann and Mahler" would be comicalit would have to be Wagner Mahler and Bruckner, perhaps Brahms
why are you spergs talking about military jets
>>128942415>Wagner Mahler and Bruckner,
now playing, time for some American modernismstart of William Schuman: Violin Concertohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vu6KrvqL8Ps&list=OLAK5uy_nCxiwIi4EnA8Hi_-Eb3FrlfhKSoL-zQw8&index=2start of William Schuman: New England Triptychhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4eEfN0Jp0w&list=OLAK5uy_nCxiwIi4EnA8Hi_-Eb3FrlfhKSoL-zQw8&index=4Charles Ives: Variations on Americahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvCz2nWbzVc&list=OLAK5uy_nCxiwIi4EnA8Hi_-Eb3FrlfhKSoL-zQw8&index=6youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nCxiwIi4EnA8Hi_-Eb3FrlfhKSoL-zQw8&si=XR2bChYR-4bHszh_>One of the greatest American symphonists, William Schuman established an orchestral sound unmistakably his own. A master orchestrator, he could turn a simple tune into a symphonic statement of universal appeal.--->Although Schuman wrote his Violin Concerto in the 1950s, it seems very much at home in today's world. Loud, abrasive, aggressive, it is punctuated by deafening crashes; the opening sets the stage with a solo that leaps back and forth with dizzying speed and momentum. The violinist seems to spend a lot of time competing with the percussion, but the second theme is poetic and tender, giving the violin a chance to do what it does best: sing. It also gets to converse with the orchestral soloists; indeed, the orchestra is an equal partner rather than an accompanying group. The second of the two movements, oddly titled "Introduzione," includes a rhythmically pungent, witty, charming Scherzo, and a long orchestral fugue, as well as more singing sections and more bangs and crashes. The solo part is fiendishly difficult, with runs at top speed, stratospheric passages, double and triple stops, and one long and one short cadenza.[cont.]
>>128942413who the fuck would care about writing solo pieces if they could write Brucknerian symphonies?
>>128942430>In addition, it is full of instantaneous changes of mood and character, demanding utmost control of tone, nuance, inflection, and expression. Philip Quint negotiates all these technical and musical hurdles with easy virtuosity, aplomb, poise, and stylistic empathy. His tone soars rapturously in the lyrical parts, his playing is forceful but never rough. The two pieces of Americana show Schuman in a different, gentle, intimate light, though the first of the Triptych also abounds with brass and percussion. Ives's Variations, masterfully orchestrated, are a grand joke, poking fun at every imaginable dance form and even including his trademark polytonal imitation of two bands playing simultaneously. These "American Classics," interestingly, are performed entirely by non-American players: a Russian-born violinist, an English orchestra, and a conductor of Polish-Uruguayan descent. Music is indeed a universal language. --Edith Eisler
>>128942435Who the fuck would care about Brucknerian symphonies besides modernist with no ear for proper music?
>>128942430>time for some American modernismNot listening!
thought about going out but I'm gonna stay home and listen to Debussy instead :3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AM-LSeeINzo&list=OLAK5uy_kTrP62FQogH_k9Gz1jH11BYpKCzgA65lI&index=42
Now that the dust has settled, is this the greatest set of Debussy's Preludes?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cto8gVToFNw&list=OLAK5uy_nSLMHVj343D-IUiwLdER2OHLc2I8JJcxE&index=16inb4>zimermeme
>>128942403>you know his music has bad form and cannot survive without it,Mahler, the greatest formalist of 20th century, has bad form? Okay.>where-as the large grouping of choir is only to achieve the required notes of the work, That IS a "what if". There exist no choir that could perform the coda of Chopin:s 4th ballade and there will never exist one.>Mahler on piano - its garbageEvidently nothttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXGiPlHp7q8>we already have Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven on choir Huh, where is choral chromatic fantasia and fugue or contrapunctus XIV or Emperor concerto or op.133, then?>Ultimately its just you left trying to find a specific situation in which you might get awayFunny, because with all the choir what ifs that's exactly what you sound like>Anyone thinking military jets will cease to exist in a few generations because of a lack of maintenance is deluded, Then I'm deluded. Only way I can think of mitigating the decline is if AI can actually reach singularity, which mathematically cannot be disproven, BUT neither proven, and therefore remains ambiguous and only time can tell. The collapse is imminent otherwise.>>128942415If you're retarded, maybe. >bruckner*horse neighs*You're as comical as it comes.
Bruckner. For some reason, I hate this guy.I don’t remember when I first heard his music. But I do remember the impression it left: what the heck?It’s entirely possible I read about him before I heard any of his music. He was an insecure country bumpkin. His heroes were Wagner, Beethoven, tremolo, this rhythmic pattern, and Christ. He came to a Beethoven exhumation without permission and cradled the skull. And he was obsessed with teenage girls, even when he was old enough to be the girls’ grandfather, going so far as to keep a list of who he found physically desirable. I can deal with one or two creepy traits in an artist…because let’s face it, most of the great composers were creeps in one way or another…but Bruckner. He just takes the creepiness to a whole new level. For some reason literally nothing endears him to me. He seems like the great composer version of the lonely old guy who hangs around gas stations, mumbling things to himself and asking female clerks easily answerable questions. You know he’s probably harmless – maybe he’s even nice – but you have no desire to get any closer to find out.I listened through the eighth symphony the other day while reading through the IMSLP score. I was twitching throughout the entire thing. The music repelled me - repelled me in a way no other music ever had. And I couldn’t explain why, which made me even twitchier. I GUESS MAYBE BECAUSE EVERYTHING FELT AS IF IT WAS IN CAPITAL LETTERS! EVERYTHING WAS LIFE OR DEATH OR BRASS OR TREMOLO FOR NINETY MINUTES STRAIGHT! AND JUST WHEN I THOUGHT IT WAS ALMOST OVER I LOOKED AT THE CLOCK AND SAW THERE WAS STILL AN HOUR LEFT TO GO OH MY GOD SOMEONE GET ME OUT OF HERE!
>>128942534>BUT neither proven,I meant it hasn't been proven that it can't. It might be.
Music peaked in the 16th century
Chopin > 2 greatest Austo-Germans > most Russians > other Germans > French > Italians > rest.
>2 greatest Austo-GermansWhy yes, Gustav Mahler and Robert Schumann of course.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E82aQHGvIpo
>>128942301Sounds like a model of cars
>>128942415>mahler, perhaps Brahms>not the other way around Lmao what a retard.Here's the list of the most relevant romantic composers, I will exclude composers "bridging the gap" to romanticism like Beethoven, in no particular order >Brahms>Tschaikovsky>Chopin>Wagner>Liszt>SchumannThese people are THE DEFINITION of romanticism. You also notice there's a lot of piano-heavy composers, but that's because piano was incredibly important and popular for romanticism as a medium.Everyone else is mostly a footnote
the next Beethoven piano sonatas cycle we will be listening to is... Jean-Efflam Bavouzet's, well-known for his Debussy, Ravel, and complete Haydn sonatas set, all wonderful.1st, Op. 2 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeJm2NEWS_c&list=OLAK5uy_lcZMmhNV96ekfIw-pGTzuJrLZ8otnl394&index=22nd, Op. 2 No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC3wVDkHLg4&list=OLAK5uy_lcZMmhNV96ekfIw-pGTzuJrLZ8otnl394&index=63rd, Op. 2 No. 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcXwaLsnfOw&list=OLAK5uy_lcZMmhNV96ekfIw-pGTzuJrLZ8otnl394&index=104th, Op. 7https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hr_L8ah_uxc&list=OLAK5uy_lcZMmhNV96ekfIw-pGTzuJrLZ8otnl394&index=14>Meticulous, Intelligent Beethoven... In sum, the best of Bavouzet’s Beethoven interpretations impart a fresh spin on thrice-familiar music without drawing attention away from the composer. That’s no small achievement. ---- Jed Distler, Rating: 8; 9
I sincerely believe that Berg could've been the greatest Austro-German composer, had he worshipped Mahler's 9th and 10th enough, but alas, all I hear is desperate attempt at originality.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqSSHwFEn_8
>>128942609Correct. But I would replacr Wagner's failed Gesamtkunstwerk with actual peak of German tradition: Mahler.
>>128942616>greatest Austro-German composerSorry little Mahlertard, Mozart has been holding that title since the 18th century.
>>128942534>the greatest formalist>can't even be transcribed to the piano without turning into a jokeLol. >There exist no choir that could perform the coda of Chopin:s 4th balladeIn your deluded dreams where you make love to Chopin each night, probably. In reality, there is no reason for it to not be possible. >Evidently notEvidently so, OST lover. Mahlers harmony work and voice leading is awful, the only thing holding this pile of shite together are some saccharine melodies for an anime death scene. >Huh, where is choral chromatic fantasia and fugue or contrapunctus XIV or Emperor concerto or op.133, then?Its not even common to find transcriptions of common pieces into other instruments (that isn't something being transcibed into piano anyways), let alone for choir, let alone whatever specific infallible example you need to prop up because you are stuck in a losing position. People are just a melodic device, they are not so special as to be somehow impossible to transcribe to. Arguably as the other poster showed, the micropolyphony of Legeti was probably much more difficult to conduct than a standard chromatic fantasia would be. >Then I'm deluded>The collapse is imminent otherwise.That would be correct. Two more weeks.
>>128942628Mozart lost the title with Beethoven who lost the titles over 25 times if not more in 19th century, dear imbecile.
>>128942616>had he worshipped Mahler's 9th and 10th enoughIt's shocking more composers didn't try and copy this style. It's probably because Mahler's style only works if you're a titanic musical genius, else it comes off kitsch, dishonest, and mawkish.
>>128942630>>>/metal/
>>128942630>voice leading is awful, You don't know what you're talking about. Nor you know anything about form, you can't even recognize a sonata form. Enough said.
RachAnon, did you peep>>128941865thoughts?
have sex composers? versus have not sex composers?WAGNER = NO SEXBACH = NO SEXMOZART = NO SEXBRAHMS = NO SEXXENDERECKI = SEX HAVESIBELIUS = SEX HAVECAGE = SEX HAVE
>>128942635>beethoven>austro-germanSo you're just straight up retarded huh
>>128942654>MOZART = NO SEXBad list, stopped reading there
>>128942639Correct. Mahler's genius is incomparable among to other Germoids besides Schumann.
>>128942645Thank you saccharine OST lover.
>>128942655Beethoven was born in Germany and died in Austria, it seems you're the retard here, as you placed Mozart above romantics. Mozart himself would likely take that as an insult, he did not live long enough to turn into the first romantic, and it's evident he was going there.
>>128942667>>>/metal/
>>128942686I notice you only do this when Mahler or Bruckner are insulted, are you also a Wagnertranny?
>>128942430Did he write any solo piano though? We all know that you can only enjoy a symphonic work if you know that the composer can write for a solo instrument.
Instead of endlessly arguing about the same 6 retards, maybe someone fresh who's barely being discussed here. Thoughts on sviridov?https://youtu.be/yUHkLVF7PPc
>>128942696This, but unironically.
>>128942665So sad Schumann has no melodies.>"In Schumann there is not a single melody, and that’s why I place Schubert so high above him.">"I think highly, too, of many of his songs, though they are not as great as Schubert's. He took pains with his declamation—no small merit a generation ago.">Wagner says he has often sung to himself themes from Mendelssohn but found it impossible to do the same with Schumann, whereas with Brahms he had really begun to doubt his musical receptivity till his pleasure in Sgambati showed him he was still capable of taking things in.>He then speaks of how much he likes the one chorus in [Mendelssohn’s] Saint Paul following the stoning of Saint Stephen. He remarks on what a period of decadence we live in; Mendelssohn still had some ideas, then Schumann, a foolish brooder, and now Brahms with nothing at all!>Wagner wrote ironically to Wolzogen about the various tragedies: of Schumann, to have possessed no melodies, of Rossini, to have had no school, of Brahms, to be a bore, etc.
>comparing Spaghetti's half-assed choral piece to chromatic fantasia and fugue and its theoretical choral transcriptionSometimes I wonder if I'm talking with bots. Welcome to /classical/ where Bach fans haven't listened to Bach and Mozart fans haven't listened to Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWEn-_zOQAM&list=OLAK5uy_mxtvDzivyXyv2eVW1PSKFHHw5zygbBYGQ&index=1>>128942712lol
>>128942712A bit of context: all of these quotes stem from the fact that Wagner and Liszt had massive beef with Brahms and Schumann over how to perform and write romantic music, they were basically constantly dissing each other during that time period. It was all half serious, most notes from their private belongings later show they admired each other anyway.
Bach and Mozart kneel before Schumann and Chopin in heaven. Mozart is listening to them while you're still stuck on the second-ratehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id5B6B8LPks&list=OLAK5uy_mUhS9wR18zzcWgXrOOsPq50CTmZI4cqO8&index=5
>>128942721Harpsicords would be even easier to replicate with choir than organ or piano pieces since they don't have infinite sustain. Welcome to /classical/ where Bach fans think his works are somehow beyond physical reality. The main issue is that choir compositions are turbo niche already outside of church settings, and transcribed compositions into choir are even less popular, if at all promoted. Let alone something like a chromatic Bach piece that would require some pretty difficult coordination, I mean who would the audience be for such an expensive endeavour? Like two people? Its just not worth the time.
I watched pic related, stylized biopic on Liszt. It goes off the rails in the second act where Richard Wagner becomes Dracula/Superman/Frankenstein/Hitler/The Antichrist. What did Wagner do that made him so vilified by the director? I quite like his work
this place really is filled with tourists huh
>>128942850it's mostly one guy from another general who knows a little about /classical/ memes and not much about classical music starting the same argument
>>128942794>that would require some pretty difficult coordinationIt would be impossible with actual people and a conductor. And whatever you could achieve would sound terrible, slow, unidiomatic to both choral, piano and in general music itself.
>/classical/ gets filtered by LigetiKek, you learn something new every day https://youtu.be/uoLam2O3gtY
>>128942850Yes, there are extremely low IQ tourists like >>128942267 who are forever stuck in tourist phase unfortunately.
>>128942888>It would be impossible with actual people and a conductorThere is nothing inherently impossible about having a line of people do quick ascending or descending melodies. A harpsicord doesn't even have peddle notes like an organ does, or the before mentioned infinite sustain. I wouldn't say it would be a walk in the park, but I see nothing terribly difficult about it. It wouldn't sound like a traditional choir, but I'm sure some modernist has probably done something similar in regards to treating the voice as just a soundbite, like a maximalist Phillip Glass.
>Pierre Boulez Picks 10 Great Works of the 20th Century>I. Edgard Varèse - Ameriques>II. Alban Berg - Three Pieces for Orchestra, Op. 6>III. Igor Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring>IV. Béla Bartók - Music for Strings, Percussion, and Celesta>V. Anton Webern - Six Pieces for Orchestra>VI. Luciano Berio - Sinfonia>VII. Karlheinz Stockhausen - Gruppen>VIII. Gustav Mahler - Symphony No. 6>IX. Arnold Schönberg - Erwartung>X. Pierre Boulez - Repons
>>128942956>>X. Pierre Boulez - ReponsBased
If we were perfect living beings, we would not waste our time with music before 1830's nor after 1930's, as all of it is objectively inferior. But since we're not perfect, we can listen to some Handel, thankfully:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVvGuTKvf8Who would've thought, being inferior can be so good?
>>128942974>we would not waste our time with music before 1830's nor after 1930'sso true romantibrother
>>128942974Except Art of Fugue
>>128942974After the French Revolution and the time leading up to it the music and the art and humanity itself became corrupt.Music after the 17th century is not worth listening to, for the most part. Music affects the soul; Plato said that music is integral to a healthy society; a Chinese emperor said that he could tell the health of his provinces by the character of the music which was popular in each of them; Lenin said that he knew no quicker way of corrupting a people than bad music. So why poison your soul with the violent and distasteful music of the 18th century, the brooding and evil romanticism of the 19th century, or the schizophrenic and malignant "music" of the 20th century? The popular music of today is nothing but pornography mixed with cloying sentimentalism; cheapo McDonald's music for cheapo McDonald's souls.I don't think you can listen to Mozart and not become a flamboyant socialite obsessed with "beauty" (vanity).I don't think you can listen to Beethoven and not become a disturbed, brooding revolutionary intent on self-glorification and an arbitrary "justice".I don't think you can listen to Chopin and not become a pretty little girl fond of nostalgic memories.I don't think you can listen to Wagner and not become a raping and pillaging pagan.I don't think you can listen to Mahler and not become a neurotic Jew.I don't think you can listen to Stockhausen and not become Satan.Hail Palestrina!
>Thinking to myself that actually maximalist eistein on the Beach would be neat>Start looking for all the ultra complex giga autists of new complexity and moderist choir works in general>Xennekis pops up>Oh yeah, he might be the type, probably not, but lets check it out https://youtu.be/KP1h8uGkq0g?t=180Top lel, was not ready for this.
Babbitthttps://youtu.be/q_yn0kue0KE
>>128943067If you want a transcendental choral experience just listen to something like ligetis requiem or clocks and clouds
>>128943107I thinking less choral, and more-so the aspect of treating voice like an instrument or synthesizer. Clocks and Clouds does kind of hit that mark, I mean if this https://youtu.be/vU9eVSglhug?t=299 is possible, I don't see why chromatic fantasies based on harpsicord would be so difficult. I'm almost sure some maximalist turbo autist must have done it, but maybe people like Ferneyhough couldn't afford the choir for such a thing. Its always hard to search modernist catalogs since no one actually likes listening to it lol, rare uploads and little information to guide you.
>>128942952>There is nothing inherently impossible about having a line of people do quick ascending or descending melodies.Evidently, it is impossible. Nor does that satisfy the premise that it must be choral, SATB arrangement. But I'm talking to a clueless person here.
>>128943176>Evidently, it is impossible.Oh yes, a standard ascending melody is so impossibly difficulty compared to this https://youtu.be/vU9eVSglhug?t=299. Why do small minds think just because they haven't heard something, that it must be beyond the physical reality? Was twelve tone composition impossible before Schoenberg showed it off? No. Anyone could have done it, its just no one had the will to craft such a thing. I'm sure there is some person who has done this, but I'm really not familiar enough with contemporary composers enough to know. Actually seems like the sort of thing that one guy Jacob whatever with the perfect pitch would try to do. Realistically its just taking the same principle of Einstein on the Beach (treating the voice like soundbites, similar to a harpsicord or synth), and applying it to maximalist setting.
>>128942956No Messiaen?
>>128943284>Oh yes, a standard ascending melody is so impossibly difficulty compared to thisQuite so.
>>128943310Whatever you want to believe, retard.
>>128942544filtered go listen to ravel pussy
>>128943324Surely, why would I believe whatever someone else wants me to believe.
>>128943346Ironic post.
To put an end to this retarded debate:Anything that can play a single tone that approximates a basic waveform (be it piano, voice, etc.) can be used to simulate literally any other sound.Case in point: here's a piano literally talking. You can apply the same concept to a choir or whatever you want. https://youtu.be/muCPjK4nGY4
>>128943384Correct.
>>128941263>master of musicYou have the wrong guy, this isn't Beethoven
>>128942338>Mussorgsky is quite goodNot even you believe this.
>>128943384The point was how it would sound (terrible), not whether it's even possible or not (evidently isn't).
>>128943475>(evidently isn't).Evidently is. Legeti and Ferneyhough already have moments of greater difficulty than transcribing a chromatic fantasy to voice, its just neither of them write in a baroque manner, so its impossible to find a perfect example. I mean nevermind chromatic jumps, they are asking for atonal or even just straight up random noises. If a regular tonal fugue has been done, and atonal works have been done, there is nothing to prevent a chromatic fugue or fantasy from being made, beyond just a lack of financial incentive or otherwise will to do so. Everything to make it possible exists already, its just no one has bothered to craft the singular example. And likely to continue that way seeing the continual decline of classical interest over time.
more like ferneyUGH
>>128941578Dutton's innovation is categorized by widescale adoption and integration
>>128942794Just add more flutes
>>128942952What if you used microphones and AI to accomplish sustained notes in a live harpsichord performance
>>128943009Schoenberg bros we're safe
God I love Webernhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj-n73XjdQ?si=uTv2g8yDl7IDQwqI
>>128944094oops got the link wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWj-n73XjdQ?si=uTv2g8yDl7IDQwqI
>>128943647I'm not sure if we're playing pretend retard or if we're in mental asylum at this point.
>>128944136Thank you retard.
> Schnabel wrote to his wife saying that during a performance of Beethoven's Diabelli Variations he had begun to feel sorry for the audience. "I am the only person here who is enjoying this, and I get the money; they pay and have to suffer," he wroteLol.
>>128944152Excellent post schizo
I've been getting into classical for a couple years now and I think I'm ready to take the hisspill. What are the essential hisscore recordings?
>>128944360
Bit of Alkan before bed, the first movement of his symphony is rather addictive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZZi_Uw-2yU>>128944332I think Milne is fine for many recordings, but Night Wind requires some real strength and will to the playing, an ominous current that rises up in a sweeping restless rage. Milne is too effete in his playing for such a task. He's more suited for something like Reminiscenza, or the Skazki. Its actually a bit odd, because I don't think of Hamelin as a strength-full character, but for Night Wind he really somehow managed to do a spectacular job.
>>128944453yeah you're right about Night Wind i always preferred Hamelin or Eckardstein for that one, what do you think of Geoffrey Tozer's interpretation and his Medtner set in general?
>>128944500Tozer and Milne are kind of similar in that they are usually pretty tight about playing Medtner according to how you are 'supposed' to, but Tozer is better about his force and rhythms, while Milne has a finer point for delicate playing and subtlety, sometimes femininity is nice, but not here. For Night Wind I would pick Tozer over Milne for this reason, his recording is really not that spectacular, but like always his lines are pretty clear and has very little fault. Could possibly be because he plays the second half a bit slower, which does add clarity at the coat of some of the whirling wind feeling. That being said, Tozer has his moments, like his Tempo dell'introduzione section is very very good imo, better than Eckardstein and Hamelin.I can't really say I've ever felt terribly negative about Tozer's playing, and I like his cycle more than Hamelin's in general as a whole, but for this piece Hamelin conjured up something special. Now that I think about it, Milne would probably be fantastic at Scriabin, like probably one of the best. Hes super clear and delicate.
Scriabin Mazurkas best recording?
>>128941263thanks for ruining the thread with your weeb shit
What's the greatest quartet on recording?
Any recordings of renaissance music you'd guy recommend? Trying to do a deep dive of the era
>>128944360Tell me your fave composers / works and I'll give you my best hiss versions.
>>128945436>>128945436I don't know about best but I like pichttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_15tKkVcw3Y&list=OLAK5uy_mKGVgp6Y4YGC9V5mnho0e5J19L8Gksa9Y&index=1+ Alexeev's recording which also includes the Poemes and Impromptushttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIGI0TQtrvg&list=OLAK5uy_mHgoR3Fc2vcbXqaVnPvmL2D0ZphXcmy2o&index=5Enjoy!
>>128944360try these two channelshttps://www.youtube.com/@incontrariomotu (not all hiss but a good %)https://www.youtube.com/@seriososerioso6762
>>128944360>>128944434Is there any particular reason why you would listen to these ancient recordings other than just curiosity to hear something that old?
>>128947386We have recordings of artists who were part of the scene when 'classical music' was still a living, breathing thing and not a museum piece. If I liked a composer, say, Saint-Saens, Medtner, Rachmaninoff, why would I not want to hear him play his own music?
>>128947475Modern interpretations are just better, recording is an art itself and we didn't master it until the 60s or so. I can understand if you wanted to hear the composer if they wrote the music but there aren't that many.
>>128947495>Modern interpretations are just better,Evidently not. Modern interpretets aren't half as unique or respected as the oldschool interpreters, who could effortlessly play twice as fast, had superior techniques, rubato and singing tone just like composers intended (the only way you can define something as 'better'). Any interpretation by Hofmann or Rachmaninoff is by definition artistically better than interpretations by modern pianists, who only get fame through competitions which force them to conform to lesser standards. This is a fact.
>>128947578>who could effortlessly play twice as fastPlaying faster/=/ better. I listen to music because it sounds good, not because there are some dead white guys on it.
>>128947584>Playing faster/=/ betterYes actually, playing faster and with more acciracy displays a superior technique, which is "better" by definition.>I listen to music because it sounds goodYou don't know what sounds good.
>>128947495based
I only listen to recordings by living performers
>>128947578Only a retard who doesn't know anything about interpretation would say that.Being a god tier instrumentalist or even composer doesn't have to mean shit depending on the circumstances. Here's for example Rachmaninov playing his own piece:https://youtu.be/ZcG-DnGdWRwYou'd think it's the most emotional, most perfect interpretation of it, right? Nope, it mostly is rushed through the second half and sounds kinda ass the more you progress. Also interpreters had a lot of different quirks they had to follow back then to be supposedly "good" which don't even make sense. Violinists having wooden posture, stuff like that.
>>128947677Thank you clueless deaf sister
>posts one of the greatest performances>"this is bad you retard!"Musically inept low IQs can leave you astonished sometimes. Anyway, it's Hofmann who owns the prelude.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj5cNBCNcPQ
plenty of pianists performed Rachmaninoff's music better than himhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJjVkpeb9Vs&list=OLAK5uy_kGVpqRmiBrgPfiByd0HwG_y1f64yRVCRA&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxz5XezdE9o&list=OLAK5uy_mO8c80zRwI1_pQtTXqim4a2eJJ-T_v16o&index=25
>>128947742Yeah, Hofmann, Horowitz, and..... Aaandd.... Huh, that's it.
>>128947773Not Sunwoo?
>>128947783No.
>>128947805ok, how about Lang Lang?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXEdZYOF1mc&list=OLAK5uy_mdfDmOcbgvajx5A6B1GT89VFyIhhV3wz8&index=25
for me? It's Don Giovanni, Figaro, The Magic Flute and Wagner's last 9 operas (Tännhauser, Lohengrin, the 4 from the Ring, Tristan, Meistersinger, and Parsifal)all one could ever need in life.
>>128947816If you're a teenager, maybe.
>>128947821tru
>>128947821Rinaldo, Norma, Pelleas et Melisande >>>
>>128947822ok last one, Luganskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdDnIy0mHsI&list=OLAK5uy_nyjNOfRJtfWP9VwwLLgz-zIllB-pd_M3E&index=1
>>128947830I have respect for Lugansky. But he's no Hofmann.
>>128947847Well you do you (as me and my friends like to say when we're being passive aggressive toward one another), I only hope you join us in the digital age someday.
>>128947856I'm not being passive aggressive to you. I hope you can hear and acknowledge the oldschool performers someday. You can always choose to listen to crap, as we all do, there should be no shame in that, but have the decency to understand the differences.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPN4gXy834
a blogpost I found listing some worthwhile 21st century solo piano musichttps://www.aidanvass.com/blog/top-21st-century-piano-pieces>Jubilee I for Piano - Magnus Lindberg (2000)>Six Piano Études - Unsuk Chin (1995-2003)>Ballade - Kaija Saariaho (2005)>Prelude - Kaija Saariaho (2007)>Two Thoughts About The Piano - Elliot Carter (2007)>Nunataks (Solitary Peaks) - John Luther Adams (2007)>Mazurkas - Thomas Adès (2009)>12 Études for Piano - Richard Danielpour (2012)>The Arching Path - Christopher Cerrone (2016)>Rimsky or La Monte Young - Louis Andriessen (2017)the blogpost contains links and some words about each
>>128947882Oh, my friend, I was attempting to be passive aggressive to you! Imagine I'm saying>You do youwhile gritting my teeth and snarling in frustration :)
getting into classical makes me realize how trash popular music is
>>128947901I prefer to be charitable and think of them as better for different things. But yes, as serious art, pop/rock is severely lacking once you get into classical, and you realize most of the rest of /mu/ with all of its RYM hipsters are essentially arguing about the superiority of whichever flavor of pop music they happen to like.
It's easy to admit the obvious: that modern performance standards are way ahead of what you can hear on early recordings, but who's willing to admit that Chopin and Schumann themselves were probably mogged by Yunchan Lim?
>>128947890I can't imagine you being angry tbqh, opioids destroyed that part of your brain.>>128947901Happens to all of us.
>>128947965>It's easy to admit the obvious: that modern performance standards are way below of what you can hear on early recordingsFTFYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5X7LRYbrUU
Had a great time at my music lesson! My teacher said if you don't spit when saying Bach you aren't pronouncing his name right. Had a good laugh at that!
Too much emphasis is placed on performance over recording quality, most performers are good enough quality, there is no reason to suffer through HISS and shrill/murky recordings just because you think a 5% tempo difference is appearently what will make or break the music, despite the fact the actual sound of the instruments themselves are recorded like total dogshit.
>>128947991Thanks for your input clueless popslopper
>>128948000If the actual performers care about their instrument quality, and of the sound environment in which they are playing, then why do you think it acceptable to listen to recordings in which ruin the sound of their instruments?
>>128948000trips of truth
>>128947495cringe
>>128948007Sound of the instrument is not ruined, it's captured imperfectly. The timbre is very much audible, and interpretation should be separated from recording quality for obvious reasons. Talking with you is like trying to convince a popslopper that their favorite EDM subgenre is compositionally worthless slop and their attachment to timbre is childish.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcV3P6zS30Q
>>128948030>it's captured imperfectlyYeah sure, if thats how you wish to call it.
>>128948036That pic perfectly sums up the comparison between Raoul Koczalski vs any modern interpreter playing Chopin. One is art, other is a lame imitation.Ask yourself, is classical music is dead, how come performance isn't dead as well? Or are you listening to contemporary classical music as much as romantic? I doubt that.Both composition and performance are dead and gone, what is left are the recordings. That should not prevent you from enjoying whatever else, but it should at least make you question yourself. Listen and compare yourself, why don't you actively listen to interpretations you're defending/attacking, exactly?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQG-Z5gdfg
>>128948055>is classical musicif*
>>128947969>I can't imagine you being angry tbqh, opioids destroyed that part of your brain.tbf disagreements about art is one of the things I can get riled by>>128947991Well yeah. Most of us, when debating about interpretations, are talking about recordings which meet a minimum threshold of audio quality to begin with.
>>128948055Performance of old pieces (especially romantic) is the only thing that still sells, you are an idiot.
>>128947965This is only true for string quartet groups.
Why did they have so many different running melody voices in the rennesainse era? Jesus christ guys its not a contest. Glad things went back down to Duophony like God intended
Ive jerked off to Bach's music before
The reason why classical music is dying, if it is, is not because the new recordings aren't romantic enough, it is because classical music has become a consumer product. Noone is playing chamber music at home with their friends or family members, noone is singing in their local choir, few are left who play the piano. All people do is worship at the altar of consumerism by purchasing mountains of recordings.
>>128948095Yeah bro, surely its dying 4 reel this time
Alkan Concerto, quite a lengthy first movement. Side note: art on this cover is fucking awful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIw3HJAFO6o>>128948087>rennesainse era>>128948095>purchasingLol.Lmao.
GOAT Kreutzer sonata coming throughhttps://youtu.be/AZG2iKESTLk
>>128948065>Performance of old pieces (especially romantic) is the only thing that still sellsCorrect, which is why I brought up that composition is dead. Now ask yourself, how closely related were composition and performance back in the day? How closely related are they today? How could performance survive without improvisatory/compositional knowledge which was one of the foundations of great performers in 16th, 17th, 18th and 19th centuries?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsN3FrhYvgI>>128948095The reason is not related to just arts and music, but to culture and society as a whole,which has started deteriorating in mid/late 19th century.
>>128948106>>128948106Those Alkan pieces are fun
>>128948113There's also recording of Rachmaninoff playing Kreutzer, I have never listened to Bartok! Thanks for sharing
>>128948121>how closely related were composition and performance back in the dayThere were many performers who were only known as performers "back in the day", open a history book.
>>128941865Its like he's trying to be as innofensive as posible . Miss when penists actually had balls
>>128948102It IS real as all empirical evidence suggests it is.>>128948106>art on this cover is fucking awful.It's actually pretty cool.
>>128948144Not this charlatans make believe graphs. Im not having it
>>128948134And yet the great performers were always expected to improvise, prelude and embellish.
Monteverdi doesn't get enough credit. He basically took music from boring ass chants to actual classical music
>>128948124I have to admit I am a bit less thrilled for the concerto than the first movement of his symphony, but perhaps I shall warm up to it with more repeated visits. There are certainly moments of warm melodies that I enjoy. Its still curious to me that Alkan creates such music, everything about his life sounds like he would be making broody sorrowful frustrated music, but I feel nothing of the sort with his music. >>128948144>empirical evidence>Dutton's "significant innovation"Lol.Lmao.>It's actually pretty cool.You have a dreadful artistic eye. The fundamentals are abhorrent, and its certainly not the result of intentional stylistic choice.
now playingstart of Medtner: Tales "Skazki", Op. 20www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8IHOkFQ_yY&list=OLAK5uy_k3_OaOebXpMtEEdm1WYBTOsagLylQ0fT0&index=1start of Medtner: Sonata romantica in B-Flat Minor, Op. 53 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8R49XRGTNI&list=OLAK5uy_k3_OaOebXpMtEEdm1WYBTOsagLylQ0fT0&index=4Rachmaninoff: Variations on a Theme of Corelli, Op. 42https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmyzVnd0ajY&list=OLAK5uy_k3_OaOebXpMtEEdm1WYBTOsagLylQ0fT0&index=8start of Rachmaninoff: Piano Sonata No. 2 in B-Flat Minor, Op. 36 (Rev. Osborne)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeOKlXL9J-U&list=OLAK5uy_k3_OaOebXpMtEEdm1WYBTOsagLylQ0fT0&index=8https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k3_OaOebXpMtEEdm1WYBTOsagLylQ0fT0
>>128948183>>Dutton's "significant innovation"That's just a full-scope visual representation of other, similar, vsrifiable empirical trends.
>>128948154There are plenty of performers who still do, not that you would listen to any of them, and your favorite recordings are likely to contain very little to no improvisation like you pretend to enjoy.
>>128948215Recording and improvising are antithetical.
>>128948203From>empirical evidenceTo>visual representationLol. Lmao. Dutton suffers from the issue he has cast to the rest of society.
>>128948215They very often add embellishments, rubato, dynamics, tempo changes (and it make them improvisatory) which are not explicitly written in as they were expected to be self-evident at the time.>>128948233No matter how you try to frame it, I never explicitly implied that picrel was empirical evidence. I choose my words carefully.
>>128948246>I never explicitly implied that picrel was empirical evidenceYou never told me you were of Ashkenazi decent, ETERNAL HEILS TO THE JEWISH NATION!
>>128948262>ETERNAL HEILS TO THE JEWISH NATION!HEILhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcHgDqsNI40
>>128948246>They very often add embellishments, rubato, dynamics, tempo changesAka what every modern performer does, and certainly not what anyone would call proper improvisation. You are an embarrassment.
>>128948176He was small time compared to when Vivaldi came on the scene
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcHgDqsNI40>The third movement, in A–B–A structure, acts as the slow movement in the four-movement plan. The extra-musical idea behind it is that of a hunter's funeral and a procession of animals that follows. >The initial 1st subject of the A section is based on the popular round "Bruder Jakob" (although Mahler calls it "Bruder Martin") more commonly known as "Frère Jacques"; however, Mahler places the melody in a minor mode. >The movement opens with the same falling fourth motif heard in the first movement, presented with the timpani. The subject is first presented by a solo double bass, followed by bassoon, tuba and, eventually, the entire orchestra. A counter-melody is played over top of the canon in the oboe.>The mood changes, and the 2nd subject, one of the most distinctive portions of this symphony follows. Mahler uses cymbal, bass drum, oboes, clarinets and a trumpet duo to produce the sound of a small folk band. Although this melody is often said to be inspired by Klezmer, it is actually inspired by Czech folk music, since what is commonly known as Klezmer was not played in the region in which Mahler lived. Despite this, Mahler's use of klezmer is sometimes credited to his Jewish roots.
>>128948185>start of Medtner: Sonata romantica in B-Flat Minor, Op. 53 No. 1Bit stilted in some of the rhythms, bit monotonous in his bangy sections. Underwhelming!
>>128948308>VivaldiI'm tired of him. Stravinsky once said that Vivaldi wrote the same concerto 500 times. I disagree. Instead, I think he began 500 concertos and never achieved anything in them. So he kept trying over and over again without ever quite succeeding.
>>128948305>Aka what every modern performer doesNot even remotely true.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsVCdW8QeEE
>>128948331Have you heard his four seasons though?
>>128948332If anything Pogorelich should be someone you idolize, hes one of the few famous performers who has no regard for what is standard play, he and Glenn Gould should be your idols if you were being even halfway intellectually honest.
>>128948347I can tolerate some Pogo myself,but Gould? I'd honestly rather listen to the worst popslop, let alone some folk music. Gould is the worst performer I've ever heard besides Elizondo:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs_ny89NdE4
>>128948367Of course, the two performers who are actually willing to commit to playing in their own ideal are who you dislike the most. You are a person at odds with your own speech, who merely speaks for the rhetoric construction, but cares not for what it means. Thank you and good bye.
Bach would have been a good black metal musician
kek
>>128948379You mean Royerhttps://youtu.be/Ls0F1quv2XE?t=70
>>128948375I believe in adherence to objective ideal of the romantic tradition, proper technique and in my own sensibilities, not whatever some hipsters think sounds good.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lec704Z7vmA
>>128948246how can you explicitly imply something
>>128948379True and based.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HHvBWngsVY
>>128948462>metal version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAaU8yPXA1ATop kek.
>>128948379You mean shostakovichThis is literally more metal than most metal songs:https://youtu.be/wokx576v5Y0
How did Medtner become the main character of the general, what a guy
>>128948539>Medtner*Wagner
>>128948454Explicit words with deeper implicit meaning. But the words were implicit in the context, not explicit, as the context suggests.
Monte- and after, Verdi and before.
>>128948586lol
Schu- and after, Mann and before
>>128948389true genius
>>128948389This one is funnier >Dear god, I didn't really forget the (signal) horn, did I? Now I have to write a n o t h er symphony"
>>128948539Flash and immediate show steal the attention at first, but over time history shall eventual reveal the true quality. >We, contemporaries, must once and for all rid ourselves of the cowardly self-esteem that prompts us to conceal our genuine incomprehension or even confirmed rejection of present-day artistic phenomena. We are afraid of the blunders of our forefathers who criticized the men of genius living in their time, but we forget that this adverse criticism, having in no way deprived us of the heritage of those geniuses, was at the same time a necessary ingredient in the education of a whole generation. Every frank confession of an inability to understand something is an unmistakable symptom of a desire to understand at all.>A frank incomprehension compels us not to take part in the incomprehensible, just as much as understanding something makes us already involved in it, and therefore all those who misunderstood or criticized, have in spite of this historical "blunder", rendered a service to their generation, if in no other way, at least by having spared it a poor performance or a cheap imitation of the work of those geniuses. And, generally speaking, to learn to shoot one should not be.afraid to miss, for history has shown us that all these mistakes of rejection or acclaim can neither make or unmake a true genius. But while rare mistakes of acclaim will not create true geniuses, but rather false idols- too frequent mistakes of wholesale acclaim (giving rise to legions of false idols), is already a far more dangerous historical blunder than all rejections, since it gradually breaks up our common artistic faith into innumerable sects, We must temporarily forget our individual little paths, in order to find the common path of art, We must for a time abandon our individual and group dialects in order to find a musical language common to all.
video game composers from the 90s are better than most of the boring ass shit you guys talk about in this thread. Has Bach ever written something as powerful feeling as this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYdf0yqK_Fc
>>128948700Thank you retard.
>>128948658firetrucking anon has been around for that long?
>>128948700The most embarrassing Beethoven piece has vastly more artistic value than that.
>>128948697>We must get rid of this habit of expressing our opinion as follows: "On the one hand it is impossible not to admit ...... but, on the other hand, it seems to me that to a certain extent" This careful beating about the bush of cowardly bourgeois critics has a ludicrous pretension to being "objective", In other words: "Since we are by nature so subjective, which is unseemly in these enlightened times, let us be objective for the sake of decency. Can people really imagine that by starting with a subjective lie they can ever reach an objective truth?>Criticism must return to the primary words yes or no. If these two words are the only ones that can exorcise the artist's material in his process of creation, in deciding him to determine what colours or images he needs; if the artist must himself present to the public not the process, but the result of his choice, why then should criticism be allowed to present its doubts instead of stating its opinion?
>>128948700Oh God, its like a frankenstein of not knowing what it wants to be. I always get a laugh out of video game composers trying to do classical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUSeRK3mSxg
>>128948734As much as I love to clown on gayness, there actually are video game composers which are genuinely pretty fucking good. Example:https://youtu.be/NTxZjhgIvrYThis is a pure piano piece btw. With more orchestration:https://youtu.be/3GKdMhEqHLc
>>128948757>Minimalist slop>Still manages to botch the track with terrible production
>>128948757>HISSNot listening!
Tricked my music prof into saying Gluck five times fast
>>128948705Anyone with a brain would have noticed the firetruck trio (B.M.W.) are gratuitous nonsense.
>>128948769Sorry retard, this score was widely acclaimed as one of the best of the year (overall, not just in video game music), your contrarianism doesn't work here.
>>128948569Face the facts Wagnerbrother nobody is talking about the Big W right now but theyre going into minutia of different Medtner recordings, it might be over now that they know about the Russian GOAT...RIP chopincel...
>>128948715I express myself like that all the time and its hard to stop, Im not doing it out of pretension to objectivity but because it often feels like theres decent arguments for opposite conclusions and im too stupid to judge them properly
How do you pretentious retards with the fact that you can't play a classical instrument?T. Classically trained on piano from 6-16
>>128948782Arvo Part and Steve Reich were also widely acclaimed. Popularity has no relation to quality, otherwise Medtner would have been the most popular Russian composer of all time. >>128948792>How do you pretentious retards with the fact
>>128948792Cope*
>>128948792Post a video of yourself playing something.
I have been listening exclusively to DDD classical for the past few weeks and now all popular music sounds like shit. Old stuff has disgusting analog sound and new stuff is loudness war victim. Classical and jazz are the only genres that are recorded properly.
>>128948792Is it true people who play music are low key miserable? Kind of upsetting that I enjoy something so much that the technicians who produce it come to despise
Who is the best renaissance composer
>>128948792Most of us play, just not at high levels. Ive played a range of instruments since around 13 (piano from about 4-5).
>>128948778lol
>>128948818No, it's just a cope musiclets tell themselves
feels like an Art of Fugue morninghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5UhPDeZ7tM&list=OLAK5uy_ntDCaCm6iGiKoAYMxhcWaR226vqcSxCKo&index=1
>>128948824Palestrina, Monteverdi, Byrd & Bull
>>128948824John Dowland. Or if you're going by cultural importance, the only one the common man has heard of is King Henry VIII.
>>128948824Thomas Tallis but William Byrd, Orlando Gibbons are close
>>128948789Like everything, its not 100% this or 100% that. Medtner is mostly speaking of people deeply invested into music, yet too afraid to state their clear opinions because they are too worried they might be wrong. Especially for music critics, which is frustrating for the artist, as the artist cannot produce something in a half-way manner: his composition is finalized with a definitive "This color over that color, this sound over that sound. Even if I was not sure, I made a decision and have stuck to that.", whereas the critic might write "it seems to me that to a certain extent", which is to neither confirm nor deny a choice - he has not created anything himself, yet contains the arrogance to not even commit to a position where he might be proven wrong or made a fool of. How unjust is such an exchange? The artist puts everything on the line, while the critic cannot even risk his opinion.In addition, this flabby mannerism of speech is not just cowardly, but also destructive, for if we cannot say what is wrong or right for fear of the wrong, how can a greater path ever be carved forward? As Medtner says in a saying not unfamiliar to most: "to learn to shoot, one should not be afraid to miss", or in modern American terms "you'll never hit the ball if you don't swing". So too can music and art never correct itself if we are too afraid to be corrected ourselves. Speak what you feel and feel the pressing of the hammer upon you, otherwise speak not at all!
>>128948849Is it Few'g or Fou-gay
>I always get upset when some praise only Beethoven, others only Palestrina and still others only Mozart or Bach. All four of them, I say, or none at all.
new>>128948891>>128948891>>128948891
the vagner meme
Going to wedding and need to provide the music on aux. can you guys rec me a pachelbel canon recording., doesn't matter what key. thanks im in a hurry so ill check this thread in 5 hours
>>128948824Josquin, Ockeghem and Obrecht.
>>128948920Got you:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrkGsFfgqto
>>128948923>ObrechtNice, don't see too many people mentioning him.
>>128945436hoffman's attack always reminded me of moiseiwitsch
>>128947742https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjlltDlJSQQ
