Mozart editionhttps://youtu.be/-JkduUalxpgThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>129061513
>>129075119Pooshart sucks.
>>129075125Go back to /metal/ Iass, why are you even here?
Pleb-Magnet: Chopin, Rachmaninoff, StravinskyPleb-Filter: Gesualdo, Reger, WebernPleb-Magnet and Pleb-filter at the same time: Beethoven, Mozart, Schoenberg (Formerly Schönberg)Mahler = CuckBoulez = MusicBach = God
Classic Rock > Classical
I was about to make a Rachmaninoff edition, oh well. Mandatory listening of the thread:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcfkyW_uVBQ
Whats the appeal of Gould's playing, he doesn't seem to understand the material at all and is playing is sloppy as fuck. The humming also completely takes me out of the music
wtf /classical/ is so shit nowwhat happened?
Imagine how much more music Mozart could have written if Salieri wasn't just a jealous cuck. Probably one of the most evil men in history
>>129075134Only if your IQ is equivalent of room temperature.>>129075153Ghould is the face of the decline. Artless non-pianist.
>>129075153He did it on purpose to get a rise out of people
>>129075161>what happened?You arrived.
>>129075161Trannypopper and the clique from /metal/ came over. Basically there is a discord/IRC where the janitor team talk together and intentionally spam threads with garbage that will never be deleted because they are on discord together and do it on purpose.
Can we all agree that Arrau is the best pianist of the recording era
>>129075166>>129075134>>129075143Thank you for the cliquespam.
>>129075161That known retard Hector, who got banned from every board known to man, get*s banned from /metal/ on sight because of his insane ramblings and pederasty (not even joking) so he had to migrate to here. Whatever general he latches on, he turns into his own personal blog.
I just can't get into those 12 tone, serialism, 20th century composers. There is just nothing there, no melody to grasp onto. I can't comprehend how anyone can listen to it outside of sheer novelty.
>I just can't get into those 12 tone, serialism, 20th century composers. There is just nothing there, no melody to grasp onto. I can't comprehend how anyone can listen to it outside of sheer novelty.
>>129075134Correct.
>>129075217Thank you cliquer. How is the discord going? Still spamming kpop images to each other all day?
Is Bach really the music God that people claim? Most of his stuff sounds the same to me, just counterpoint wankery
>>129075239Thank you for the cliquespam.
>>129075239Leave the homophobia at the door
Listening to Webern. Feeling intellectual.
Serialism is a classicism.Schoenberg's early period was clearly degenerate, but his take on serialism clearly was an attempt at making "Classical" music, although in a different language. It was a revolt against the degeneracy of late and post-romantic music.Wagner is the real degenerate.
>Wagner is le god
Some real epic cliquespam thread, much love to the janitor team and the female mod. Enjoy the mostly dead general for the next 16 hours as all the actual posters leave.
Just found out about Palestrina and pretty much had a musical orgasm. Imagine hearing this in a stone churchhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP8t3D1rJD4
>>129075293Yeah Free Palestrine
>>129075293good, listen to Josquin, Ockeghem, Obrecht, Isaac, De La Rue and Lasso now
>>129075316Damn I actually haven't listened to any of these. Ill check them out
Got a tattoo today
the boys are back in town
>I suck fucking cock and my music is for people who like to ram kitchen utensiles up their assholes.
>>129075365There was something special between them
>ludwig is doing some boring video react thingcmon, get to the classical dissection portion
>>129075382What's crazy is he actually said that.
what do you think of the taste of our ancestors
just listen and zone outhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucdYt46DpX8
>>129075465>ZappaWhy
>>129075465Not enough Wagner
>>129075465Wagner raped their minds.
>>129075465extra
>>129075534Tallis is also now trans.
>>129075291Thank you
>tfw only listen to symphonies
never heard Brahmns before. can I get some recs
>>129075598the string sextetsthe string quintetsclarinet quintethorn triothe violin sonataspiano pieces op 116-119german requiem
>>129075598some places to start if you likeorchestral music: Symphony No. 4 (Kleiber or Markevitch), Symphony No. 3 (Walter)chamber music: piano quintet (Pavel Haas Quartet), String Sextet No. 2 (Talich)piano solo: ops. 116, 117, 118, 119 (Katchen)choral music: Schicksalslied (Blomstedt), if you like then try German Requiem (Klemperer or Blomstedt)
>>129075193Not even top ten, child.>Hofmann>Cortot>Koczalski>Rachmaninoff>Moiseiwitsch>Godowsky>Friedman>Rosenthal>Lhevinne>Pachmann
Listening to some Deep Purplehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toonXjN2wTM
>>129075677based, also>>Moiseiwitschhas the best waldstein sonata
>>129075677Hiss era /=/ recording era
>>129074084One piece at a time, friend :)>>129074148One composer at a time is decent but what worked best for me was one form at a time. Try three different violin sonatas, then three symphonies, then three string quartets, etc.
Glenn buddy, I think you are facing the wrong way
>>129075677All of these names are made up btw
>>129075153It's ~differentSome of his stuff is good though, and certainly worth a try.
>>129075554It is the peak of the form
>All played on a single saxophone in one recordingDamn, Colin Stetson is a beasthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8c7YvSMyIso
After having the Suske Quartet cycle of Mozart's string quartets in my collection for almost a year, I finally decided to listen to it and my god, it's incrediblehttps://files.catbox.moe/npwrgd.flac
nocturnes aren't real, its a fake category
>>129074884Willy Wonka looking ass. Is he actually worth listening to
>>129075921sussy baka quartet
>>129075996quatuor ebin :DDDhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS8qI80sGcU&list=OLAK5uy_kXC_yoi1-dTPAhg8FbvcgqB6Qo4IHyqYY&index=1>String Quartet in G Minor, Op. 10, CD 91, L. 85: I. Animé et très décidé>Animé et très décidé>Animé oh shi--
>>129075993Yeah I can't say I get it, I can do the same thing just spamming notes on a piano roll in fruity loopshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvH2KYYJg-o
>>129075993If you're an RYMsister avant-teen, sure. If listening to music that no one else at your high school would understand including the teachers gets your rocks off, then sure.
>>129075921You know what I find incredible, that it's impossible to find the source for the various drawings and sketches on the covers of Mozart albums.
https://youtu.be/yxd2FxQ2_F0I can feel the ghost of Brahms in those rhythms, can you?
>Karajan's Mozart isn't goo-- ACK!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uteSoRohdEY&list=OLAK5uy_lXWuc3JNPo7MS-Iz4HKX_NnzFE-Kgenlg&index=1>>129076072At that point I'd reckon they used an in-house artist.
Is Wagner starting to be underrated?
>>129075993Overall, yes
>>129075193Me and my kitty both agree.
>>129075193Hamelin is the greatest and it's not even close.
>>129076288>Hamemelin
>>129076083Brahmsian rhythmic syncopation. Beethovian thematic economy. Bachian contrapuntal ingenuity.
>>129076357all ruined by Shoenbergian emancipated dissonance.
>>129076357Schoenbergians are starting to sound like Wagnerians.
>>129076382if Schoenberg were not of Jewish descent, Nazis would place him alongside Wagner.
>>129076382What makes you say that
>>129076393The Nazis disliked Berg and Webern.
>>129076393the nazis had no taste, I doubt it
>>129076431because they were retards who thought dodecaphony was a Jewish conspiracy against western art when it is in fact Wagnerian romanticism taken to its esoteric extreme.
>>129076393Nazis were small-minded retards who opposed any music that crossed their arbitrary line of "too much dissonance". They even branded Stravinsky "degenerate music" despite Stravinsky himself being a closeted antisemite who idolized Musolini.
>>129076023He is filtering me. Its crazy to read about how him and stockhausen were trained in classical music and end up just making the musical equivalent of converting a png file into audacity. Xenakis was a choir singer who was trained on Palestrina and Mozart
now playingstart of Dvorak: Slavonic Dances, Series I, B. 83https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0RPNVMdE1E&list=OLAK5uy_mD9xv35FFP67dAdG0usnlclGBbvcqmZlE&index=2start of Dvorak: Slavonic Dances, Series II, B. 147https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ScENZjacYrU&list=OLAK5uy_mD9xv35FFP67dAdG0usnlclGBbvcqmZlE&index=9https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mD9xv35FFP67dAdG0usnlclGBbvcqmZlE>A celebration of Bohemian spirit and rhythmic brilliance, Antonin Dvorak's Slavonic Dances come to life in a vibrant new recording by the Czech Philharmonic, led by the masterful Sir Simon Rattle. These vivid orchestral gems, full of rhythmic vitality, folkloric color, and lyrical charm, are central to Dvorak's legacy and pivotal in defining a Czech national sound. Composed at a turning point in the composer's career, the Slavonic Dances radiate with joy, invention, and national character qualities that captivated audiences across Europe and beyond
>>129076582>He is filtering me.That's just your brain's defense mechanism against nonsense, disease, and toxicity.
To that guy in the last thread who said Schoenburg ruined music. He was literally doing the exact opposite, he was doing it to get it out of the way so future musicians wouldn't have to create the same kind of music
>>129076116This would be great if it weren't for all the dialogue parts.
szoenbug
They say if you listen to all 27 of Myaskovsky's symphonies you ascend to a higher planehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDkbTVTO1Mg
brahms
Dvorak 1 is what people think Brahms 1 is. Brahms 1 is actually fantastic.
Haven't heard the current rooster but these guys where on a whole different level in the 90s
This is how Palestrina intended his music to be sunghttps://sintel.bandcamp.com/album/missa-miku
>>129078294I hate it but I don't hate it
it's time to try out Telemann's oratorioshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MEQhkTP_io&list=OLAK5uy_l_0LqqGDdwyAiOIf1EtfjzNs4BZKz8PsA&index=1
Isserlis' Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzqQuD5N5mI&list=OLAK5uy_kciACZR_57T5reDdw86G1AULnZiFlTGqs&index=19
>>129078294Dido's Lament was legitimately hilarious, lol'd hard at the remember me section.
>>129075134pretty good post actually but Mahler is alright
>>129075293based. do as >>129075316 says and welcome to Renaissance patricianhood
>>129075465the fact that Zappa is there is crazythe fact that Zappa is there twice is insanethe fact that Zappa is there three fucking times is maddeningthe fact that Beethoven is ONLY there three times is offensivethe fact that Zappa is there just as many times as Ludwing fucking van Beethoven is depressing
>>129079025>pretty goodIncorrect. Webern, Schoenberg and Boulez are third-rate. Rest of them are all first-rate, except Stravinsky and Reger who are second-rate.
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Leq3m87WvMI
Zappa raped all your minds.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3th1v4YYArA
>>129079175not as much as /classical raped yours. go back to /metal/ you fucking tard.
>>129075465>no Reger>no Hovhaness>no Sibelius>no Telemannextremely disappointing but not unsurprising.
>>129079247Says the guy mindraped by the most sophisticated period of classical music. You should both go back to /metal/ you low IQ twats.
>>129079327>most sophisticated period of classical musicthe high romantic?
>>129079347Of course. Schubert to Rachmaninoff is the culmination of music.
What is the diapershit of classical?
>>129079381not interested in discussing various flavors of shit, thank you. perhaps try /metal/ instead?
>>129079401Metal is the modern day equivalent of classical, you philistine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZsi_LDx6wE
>>129079418and men can get pregnant.
>>129079429https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wFpBZpcSAQ
>>129079434Yours maybe, which would explain you gay hatred for chadtal
>>129079451so true, sister.
>>129079381>>129079418>>129079451not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/mu/ instead?
Composers with zero (0) bad pieces:Bach(post K.271) Mozart(late) BeethovenBrahmsWagnerMahlerSchoenbergWebern
>>129079630Webern is kind of cheating though because his total output is so small.
>>129079630Bach has a lot of mediocrityMozart has tons of garbageBrahms has tons of embarrassmentWagner is an embarrassment by itselfSchoenberh never made good musicWebern had no intentions to make good music
>>129079830Correct.
>>129075465>>129075534I'm glad they're gone, though I do miss SDF, CLT, and Tallis
>>129079630>>129079662Every Webern piece is unlistenable garbage.
>>129064828Nope. This is clearly above your pay grade. Singing isn't "normal" by default. There's no neutral baseline. Pop and rock singers routinely fake accents and adopt highly artificial vocal mannerisms. They don't sing the way they talk either. Singing isn't a natural human behavior in the way birdsong is; it's always stylized and trained. Even the one that is "most speech-like", whatever that even means.You keep confusing technique and aesthetics with technological constraints.Operatic singing isn't a workaround for missing technology, it's a deliberate aesthetic choice. It wasn't invented because microphones didn't exist, any more than counterpoint was invented because recording tape didn't exist.Your chiptune analogy completely misses the point. Chiptune is defined by technical limitation. Classical vocal technique is defined by timbre, resonance, line, and projection as aesthetic values, not by some failed attempt to do pop singing louder.The assumption that specialization only "makes sense" if it solves a technical problem is pure techfag thinking. Art doesn't obsolete itself just because new tools exist. By that logic, oil painting, acoustic instruments, unamplified theatre, and handwritten literature should all have been retired.You clearly have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about and have shit taste.
>>129080092Incorrect.
>>129080046https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by1OlFqIQxIhow can you not like Webern?
>>129080093I accept your concession.
>>129080092>Even the one that is "most speech-like",That's the natural. You are neither honest, nor reasonable.
>>129080103On the opposite day maybe
>>129080099Anyone who pretends to enjoy Webern is under the spell of mass hysteria, conformity, and lunacy.
>>129080106>An appeal to nature is a rhetorical technique for presenting and proposing the argument that "a thing is good because it is 'natural', or bad because it is 'unnatural'."I accept your concession.
>>129080116>An appeal to natureThank you logiclet.>I accept your concessionOn the opposite day maybe
>>129080121I accept your concession.
>>129080106>You are neither honest, nor reasonable>is completely dishonest and unreasonableWhat did he mean by this?
>>129080129>conceeds that speech-like folk singing is natural>b-b-b-but that doesn't make it good r-r-right?Freudian slip? kek>I accept your concessionOn the opposite day maybe
>>129079830Imagine being filtered by Wagner.
>oBITCHuarykek. can't help but love this jerk.
Scriabinhttps://youtu.be/ALOko0VRCqk?si=4rlmi9cMiCFICQwn
>>129080278legend has it he lurks here. Dave could be in this thread right now.
Based Alkan creating touhou tunes before video games existed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVGcjBB3UlM
>>129080309Based Dave.
>Based Alkan creating touhou tunes before video games existed.
>>129080375When are you going back to /metal/?
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 4 in G Major, Op. 58www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJmgWmK87Us&list=OLAK5uy_lJ2xHiTL5pda17t1ModdSHNtwxhH8zAKg&index=10start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-Flat Major, Op. 73 "Emperor":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZrQHfzSFeM&list=OLAK5uy_lJ2xHiTL5pda17t1ModdSHNtwxhH8zAKg&index=13https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lJ2xHiTL5pda17t1ModdSHNtwxhH8zAKg
>>129080509>giLELs>Beethoven piano pieceListening!
>>129080521can't go wrong
>>129080526I prefer Beethoven's sonatas over the concerti, but both are good. You have a favorite concerto over the rest?
>>129080544>You have a favorite concerto over the rest?lol I'd assume like everyone else, the 5th. The only special opinion I have regarding them is I think the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd are pretty great as well.>I prefer Beethoven's sonatas over the concerti, but both are good.Same, just depends on my mood. Felt like something with an orchestral backing and the violin concerto didn't seem it.
I asked my kitty who's her favorite pianist and she replied,>ARRAUW!!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2O6aBBFJ9xYthat's me on the left btww
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJp9stl3pxI
>>129080585thank you sister
TelemannAnon, what's Telemann's best choral music? after how wonderful >>129078357 was, I need more
>>129080559Fair, one thing I don't get is that the cadenza for the fifth is supposed to be played exactly as written, yet isn't that the exact opposite of a cadenza? I think I've seen this numerous times, and it always confuses me, since I thought a cadenza was suppose to be an improvisation, making a written improvisation seems silly to me. Also I will never get Beethoven's fascination with banging out the same chord like 6 times in a row in his orchestral pieces, it always sounds awful. https://youtu.be/ZZrQHfzSFeM?list=OLAK5uy_lJ2xHiTL5pda17t1ModdSHNtwxhH8zAKg&t=640I believe he does the same thing in the 3rd or 5th symphony, timbral variations allow for a whole lot of hackery. >Felt like something with an orchestral backinghttps://youtu.be/Pbe1bVcJfIU
>>129080693Your obsession with Midtner exposes you for the midwit that you are.
>>129080707Incoherent post.
>>129080693>Fair, one thing I don't get is that the cadenza for the fifth is supposed to be played exactly as written, yet isn't that the exact opposite of a cadenza?It can be, but even in the pieces where the performer plays something that isn't written by the composer, it's still often an accepted standard, so really it can also mean just a solo virtuoso passage.>MedtnerSpecifically Beethoven :pbut I've been meaning to listen to that concerto lately too
>>129080682https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud7mP_NQv6c
>>129080714Keep your metal-memes to yourself. You are just helping me prove my point.
>>129080722ty
>>129080726>metal memesYou mean... MY "meme", as in me, who is the person who began calling nonsense posts that make no fundamental sense incoherent. If you are from /metal/ and believe your friends there have taken my "meme" from me, then perhaps you ought to return to your home general where you belong?
now playingstart of Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 1 in E Minor, Op. 11https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqtE9h5r_hY&list=OLAK5uy_lXk42zXz9wICgBeZk32bTyUbEz9jBHJ4Q&index=2start of Chopin: Piano Concerto No. 2 in F Minor, Op. 21https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WLL71JDLjo&list=OLAK5uy_lXk42zXz9wICgBeZk32bTyUbEz9jBHJ4Q&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lXk42zXz9wICgBeZk32bTyUbEz9jBHJ4Q
>>129080747Nothing to brag about. Actually sad that you would brag about "inventing" garbage like that. LIke I said, absolute midwit.
guys, can we not? you're both from /metal/, neither of you are from /metal/, whatever, who cares, now let's get back to /classical/. we good? please and thank you
>>129080773We hate /metal/-spergs and their failmemes here. They will never belong here with us übermenschen.
>>129080763No one bragged about anything, I only corrected you on your belief that your shitty group of faggots on /metal/ have managed to "invent" anything, instead of just copying from others. >>129080773It will never happen, he doesn't even listen to classical, has zero interest in music, and is just here to screech about his boogieman bullie. Ask him about anything related to classical, all the janitor knows is kpop and spamming generals with garbage 16 hours a day straight.
Matthew won LMAO
>Matthew won LMAOThe no-chin award and working for zero dollars an hour as a 4cuck janitor award, true.
>>129080761Either this recording is really good or I just happen to be deeply in the mood for it.
>>129080817Yeah but he still won over you KEK
>>129080825Boring post.
If you haven't had a 7 hour goon-sesh while blasting Stockhausen and Jute Gyte, I pity you.
>>129080846Thank you for the cliquespam.
now playingstart of Beethoven: Sonata No.1 in F Major, Op. 5 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asJDe1mi2aM&list=OLAK5uy_mk4ICYXD9UBbVFQS-h9gyVSVxyBquOVVY&index=2start of Beethoven: Sonata No.2 in g minor, Op. 5 No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nAzs21GpNo&list=OLAK5uy_mk4ICYXD9UBbVFQS-h9gyVSVxyBquOVVY&index=4start of Beethoven: Sonata No.3 in A Major, Op. 69:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThRQvOgmisQ&list=OLAK5uy_mk4ICYXD9UBbVFQS-h9gyVSVxyBquOVVY&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mk4ICYXD9UBbVFQS-h9gyVSVxyBquOVVY>Yo-Yo Ma and long-time friend and musical partner Emanuel Ax reunite for Hope Amid Tears, a new recording of Beethoven’s complete works for cello and piano, on Sony Classical. Hope Amid Tears presents Beethoven’s five sonatas for cello and piano in the order in which they were composed, tracing an important arc in Beethoven’s development and approach as a composer. Joining them are Beethoven’s three sets of variations for cello and piano. “When we look to music to give us hope for the future, to believe that we can survive and to do good, it is invariably to Beethoven’s,” says Ax. “His mastery of musical craft was second to none, of course, but it is his indomitable spirit in the face of personal tragedy that makes him unique. In this period of world-wide unease, grief, and suffering, it is perhaps fitting that we are also celebrating the 250th birthday of the composer who represents what is best in our humanity.” >Ma and Ax have made music together for more than 40 years, recording dozens of albums, earning five Grammy Awards, and performing on stages all over the world. Their friendship is not only rooted in a deep love of music, but also a shared sense of humor and keen perspectives on life’s joys and challenges. Hope Amid Tears is their second recording of the complete Beethoven cello sonatas, after a 1987 effort that earned the duo their second Grammy.I love these five sonatas so much.
>>129080876You think these guys blew each other?
>>129080761>>129080822>Emanuel Ax's recording has remained one of my favorites despite collecting many others. He communicates beautifully in this recording. There is a section toward the end of the first movement of the E minor that sounds to me as if the piano is pleading, or searching for sympathy and understanding. I often listen to that section to hear if the pianist can communicate that section well. Emanuel Ax touches me when he plays that section. He understands and conveys that message well. His second movement is lyrical and poignant and the last movement is played with seeming effortlessness, joy, playfulness and always with full attention to the singing quality of Chopin's writing. The F minor concerto is also very well performed.>I found the recording by Garrick Ohlsson on Arabesque label to be equally satisfying, but that recording is full-price. I prefer Ax's recording to Zimerman's most recent recording (also full-price). I also prefer Ax's performance to Rubinstein's recording with Skrowaczewski (E minor), Perahia/ Mehta (though I prefer Perahia/ Mehta for the F minor concerto), Kissin's recording (although it is truly amazing given his tender age), Tirimo/ Glushcheko, Argerich/ Abbado, Argerich/ Dutoit, Simon/ Beissel (and I am a serious admirer of Abbey Simon's playing) and Pires/ Krivine (though this also has some beautiful playing, marred only by the lack of momentum at times). I even prefer it to my old Czerny-Stefanska recording. Ax's new recording with Mackerras cannot sustain my interest because I am disappointed by the sound of the period instrument. Otherwise his playing remains fine.good as it gets? most likely
>>129080889No. Sex with the same woman at the same time? Certainly.
>>129079630Why would you ever listen to Mahler, A second-rate wannabe Wagner?
>>129080896Too bad Wagner wasted his time with opera.
Wagner > Midtner & Scribidookie
>>129080719>so really it can also mean just a solo virtuoso passage.But then what separates it from a tocatta? Isn't improvisation and performer freedom the defining features of a cadenza? Thats what I don't get about strictly written ones. >but I've been meaning to listen to that concerto lately tooI personally prefer the 1st and 2nd, but the third is very popular. >>129080822>>129080761I can't imagine ever being in the mood for Chopin orchestration.
>>129080889Hope amid tears, anon. Hope amid tears.
>>129080897A mature Wagner opera is organized as highly, and almost as purely musically, as a Beethoven symphony. Its organization is on totally different lines; and any analysis that attempts to apply symphonic terms to Wagner is doomed to fantastic abstruseness. But the analysis of Wagner’s music into hundreds of short themes associated with dramatic incidents and thoughts carries us no farther into his principles of composition than the compiling of a dictionary of his words. The music is no more built from these details than the drama is built from its words. Behind and above this apparatus, the music is architectural on a scale actually from ten to twenty times larger than anything contemplated in earlier music; and it is true to the architectural nature of music; its symmetries are expressed in recapitulations as vast and as exact as those of any symphonic music. Words are not thus recapitulated, nor is the singer often conscious of taking part in a recapitulation, since the musical declamation fits the words at every moment, and the voice-part itself, therefore, does not recapitulate.
>>129080904A toccata is its own piece. A cadenza is in a concerto. I'm sure there are some formal distinctions too inherent to the former.
Damn, Hector knows absolutely nothing about music.
>>129080904>I can't imagine ever being in the mood for Chopin orchestration.While it took me several listens for me to actually like them, I wouldn't blame anyone for not caring for them.
>>129080907I will never forgive you for wasting my time by reading that.
>>129080909>A toccata is its own piece.Not only have I seen it many times in suites and such (EG Durufle), but Rach 3rd concerto has a toccata exactly as a replacement to a cadenza, which makes sense if you are not giving any freedom to the performer.
i'm starting to miss the sisterposter
>>129080938Well, then, I haven't a clue.
>>129080944You should be happy for them, they're most likely interning for Chailly or some shit, and didn't wanna distract themselves with this place anymore.
>>129080953>them>they>themselves
Why the fuck did he compose a string quartet with nothing but SIX fucking adagios at the end of his fucking life??
>>129080947Yeah neither do I, thats what had me confused. I suppose cadenza just stuck around as a name for a solo, despite composers like Beethoven taking all the defining features of it away. Which is a bit ironic since he's usually promoted as a composer who stuck strictly to classical forms.
>>129080961I don't like to presume. They did say they had a girlfriend but these days that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
>>129080965Hack
>>129080968>spent 16 hours a day spamming 4cuck.org>had a girlfriendlol.lmao.
>>129080968It's obviously a fucking male. And you surely won't be offending anyone, for God's sake
>>129080965the 15th is a monument of modern classical.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMIhsjkqnGEwarning: the piece is too powerful to listen to too often
>>129080977When you do a lot of studying and reading and music listening and writing in your room with a computer, it isn't that hard to monitor and reply to one single thread, especially since most of their posts were repetitive and didn't require any time and effort. See new post -> click-clack-click-clack 2 seconds -> done.>>129080980For the last time, it has nothing to do with offending anybody, it's about accuracy.
>>129080988zzzzzzzzz
>>129080988It kind of is charming, but damn the tempo could use some variety. What made him compose 6 adagios in a ROW? He could have 3 of them, with contrasting allegros/prestos or whatever.Anyway, since you're a big fan, which movement is your favorite? The first movement is beautiful oj the surface but can't say I understand it completely, I'll give it more listens. Which movements grabs your heart the most? And also, which Shostakovich string quartets in general you like the most?
now playingstart of Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 7, Op. 108https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yw0tAIG38QY&list=OLAK5uy_lRzclfiFFa0HVqGEqLbTi2B3sdIR9NJBc&index=26start of Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 8, Op. 110https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QOneP61kgI&list=OLAK5uy_lRzclfiFFa0HVqGEqLbTi2B3sdIR9NJBc&index=29start of Shostakovich: String Quartet No. 9, Op. 117https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=if-I8UhJ0fo&list=OLAK5uy_lRzclfiFFa0HVqGEqLbTi2B3sdIR9NJBc&index=34https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lRzclfiFFa0HVqGEqLbTi2B3sdIR9NJBcWhile some would undoubtedly say Bartok, to me no other string quartets capture the spirit and experience of modern life as accurately and beautifully as Shostakovich's masterful string quartet cycle. Essential listening.
>>129080994I don't think very much studying was going on while he was spamming the threads with hundreds of posts, usually nonstop. He never had a GF, and hes going to end up flipping burgers because he decided to make Beethoven copy pasta in 2026. Nor will he be a great performer, since he hated any and all virtuosity. Guy's a joke.
>>129080994>it's about accuracyWhy do you care about accuracy? And if you do, then why do you use acronyms, contractions etc.?
>>129081014>And also, which Shostakovich string quartets in general you like the most?The earlier ones are the ones I listen to the most. The 2nd-5th especially. And of course the 8th must be mentioned and the 14th and 15th are the masterpieces, but for general listening, for me it's the earlier ones. The middle ones I know everyone loves but I gotta be the right mood for them. I'm listening to the cycle a bunch lately though, so maybe I'll change my mind, but until then,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA-tWsRkviQAnd adagios are beautiful and haunting! idk they probably just best suited what was going through his heart and mind. The 15th isn't a piece of contrasts, but rather a holistic mood.
>>129081027>and hes going to end up flipping burgers because he decided to make Beethoven copy pasta in 2026.?what copypasta? they haven't posted here in over a year (there's a couple posts I've seen which I suspect might be from them, but regularly posting, it's been over a year).
>>129081027He was right about everything though
>>129081014>>129081048Oh and a bit of a tangent, but don't sleep on the masterful Piano Quintet.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RTfEZQHxIoThe second piano trio I'm actually unsure where I stand on, though many claim it's a masterpiece as well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA4ms-AvZkEIt's actually one of the few major Shostakovich works I've yet to understand and enjoy. Maybe soon. But yeah, that Piano Quintet, fire.
>>129081053>?>what copypastaThats what he wants to compose, Beethoven copypasta. Classical is already in a tough spot for new composers, but no one is signing up for your Gross Fuge alternative. Hes going to be yet another burger flipper with a music degree. >>129081060Considering the height of his intellectual criticisms was calling anything from Russia "virtuosslop", I would say no.
Something I've started to kinda come to agree with the sisterposter on is there's really only a small list of composers that are worth listening to regularly. I mean sure, explore the lesser-known composers and non-top-tier guys too, but at the end of the day, once I've heard it all, for regular, daily listening, I find myself returning to the same handful. Which isn't to say that other composers aren't great for occasional listening, my point is only that the gap really becomes starkly apparent over time. ex. random lesser-known X composer's symphony was great when I discovered it and listened to it a second time, but gimme Beethoven's Y masterpiece today for the thousandth time because it holds up and will never get old.
>>129081048>>129081064I know the 8th obviously, but I haven't explored them all. I must say I don't enjoy his symphonies from start to finish, only movements here and there, I'm not sure if it's the music or my mindset. I don't like the 7th at all for example, the endless percussion bit kills any desire for me to enjoy it. Shostakovich is weird. Anyway thanks for the recs.
>>129081078>Thats what he wants to compose, Beethoven copypasta. Classical is already in a tough spot for new composers, but no one is signing up for your Gross Fuge alternative. Hes going to be yet another burger flipper with a music degree.I detest how anti-artist 4chan is. Don't be one of those guys, anon.
>>129081060He was wrong about pretty much everything actually
feels like a Mahler 7 morninghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfyrQA1oZ_4&list=OLAK5uy_nqCekms58_8eS4fFT9Kd95iyhlvD-D-CU&index=1
Shostakovich is an occasionally profound yet continually weak composer with very weak skill at counterpoint that relied more on shock factor than musical substance.
>>129081120>shock factormaybe his first two symphonies. but hey, if he's not for you then he's not for you. can't deny he composed the greatest piano work of the 20th century in Op. 87.
>>129081108Not really
which way, black man?
>>129081130Misogyny is alive and well I see~
>>129081097The truth that he and you don't quite understand is that Beethoven is just the beginning. Romantic-period music is supreme. Thus it would be correct to say, that there's really only a handful of compossrs worth listening to regularly, and each one of them is strictly from the romantic period, post-Beethoven and before the modernists.
>>129081129Yeah, really. He was a low IQ baboon and you likely are one as well.
>>129081140Well, everyone's gonna have their own core list that's close to their heart and soul.
>>129081104No one is anti-artist, I am just saying the objective truth. If you want to compose for a living then you have to compose for the times, and another Beethoven copypasta isn't going to hack it in todays world. You don't even have bored lazy aristocrats who will support you anymore, let alone the old popularity of concerts to garner an audience.Sisterspammer had no real inventive ideas to him, all he had was a drive to spam a 4chan general and favor the most well known, well established, and well regarded composers. If we put him in Mendelssohn's time he would have called Bach virtuososlop or mathslop, or some other name simply because he wasn't as well regarded at the time.
Classical era music is about a perfection of form and counterpoint to its absolute ideal situations. Mozart made quite literally perfect music, where even more unexpected or avantgarde formal twists are made smoothly with clear, rational transitions. Attribute this to Enlightenment thinking of the time.Romantic era took everything perfected in the Classical era and threw it away for "emoshun" (AKA sloppy fortissimos and accelerandos).
>>129081140Accurate.
>>129081154Their primarily aspiration was to be a conductor, I believe, so chill.
>>129081158>Classical era music is about a perfection of counterpointThank you retard.
>>129081140cringe
>>129081158>perfection of form and counterpoint to its absolute ideal situations.So, Bruckner? Mahler? Schumann? Chopin? Wagner? Fauré? I concur.
Oh yeah Wagner and Mahler are totally equals, lmao. If you can't tell the difference between Mahler's all-too-sweet Jewish indulgences, and Wagner's formalistic German genius you need help.
>>129081161A conductor of 4chan posts, certainly.
>>129081175>>129081187>Wagner>formLol.Lmao.
>>129081187Mahler shits all over Wagner and any orchestral composer before or after himself, including Wagner, who was just an acknowledged for his supremacy over classical period composers.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sIdwWs_bJw>>129081200Braindead.
Wagner would rank themWagner > Bruckner > MahlerAnd since they both worshipped Wagner then Wagner must be right.
>>129081189And what a bang-up job they did before they quit! You should wish the best for your fellow /classical/ anons. I do, anyway, as I wish the best for you and hope you accomplish all of your dreams. We're all gonna make it :)>pic: Vilde Frang
I think Mozart sucks.
>>129081241>And what a bang-up job they did before they quit!Being an immensely boring spambot that couldn't even figure out a single funny or creative manner to post? I can only imagine how awful anything else "conducted" by him would be.
>>129081269We'll see, I suppose. I'm hoping they turn out to be good.
>>129081276You wont "see" anything, since he'll never be known, just like you don't know the names of 99% of composers, conductors, performers, etc who are forgotten before they even began.
>>129081147Who hurt you?
now playingstart of Prokofiev: Symphony No. 1 in D Major, Op. 25, "Classical"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTu6YYRK_ng&list=OLAK5uy_n226rfvXfso9ErAepAJhNMrhthryeirCw&index=2Prokofiev: Dreams, Op. 6https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4aFdaA0JLA&list=OLAK5uy_n226rfvXfso9ErAepAJhNMrhthryeirCw&index=6start of Prokofiev: Symphony No. 2 in D Minor, Op. 40:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd0tyifte0Y&list=OLAK5uy_n226rfvXfso9ErAepAJhNMrhthryeirCw&index=6https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n226rfvXfso9ErAepAJhNMrhthryeirCw>Prokofiev had written two symphonies as a student but his first numbered work in the genre was the Classical Symphony, completed in 1917. This evokes, melodically though not necessarily harmonically, the world of Haydn and Mozart, and it has remained one of his most popular works. The Second Symphony, by contrast, is a work of iron and steel (in the composers words), a symphony of conscious modernity and visceral power. Dreams, a symphonic tableau, reveals the potent, early influence on Prokofiev of Scriabin. Of Marin Alsop and the Sao Paulo Symphony Orchestras recording of the Fourth Symphony and The Prodigal Son [8.573186], International Record Review wrote: Conductor and orchestra both shine with the excitement of a special relationship in the ascendant.Forgot about Alsop's Prokofiev cycle. Should be good!
The end point, conclusion of music is advanced chromatic harmony, seemingly functionless extended chords, modal mixtures (mazurkas), subtle applied counterpoint, ambiguous tonality, free style classical forms and profound bel canto. Chopin concluded music in 1840's. If you seek mathematical perfection in form of music, you should only ever listen to Chopin, and nothing else.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JKv2FyvJ8Ihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1iq5dDN1Ug
The next thread will be better.
>>129081100Happy to help. And yeah, Shostakovich isn't for everyone, but hey, you never know.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NMB6hxIPsoAnd if it doesn't click for you, I'd suggest returning to it every so often. You never know when something that didn't sound good to you before will suddenly in the future.
>>129081319It seems like the /metal/ cliquespammer has left (at least temporarily), so I imagine so.
Rachmaninoff is just a lesser Medtner
>>129081336LOL get fuckin' real
>>129081317I thought Chopin was emotional perfection and Bach was mathematical perfection. Chopin can't have it all!
>>129081297The low IQ AIDS-ridden degenerates such as yourself for being present in the general.
Craig Sheppard's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rWvHCVQEys&list=OLAK5uy_l9uP_XqBlbuMCQJC1wTj2G5Hvk54nXyKI&index=2
>>129081336They have two pretty different styles actually, but we do much prefer Medtner here. Also reminder that Rach dedicated his fourth to Medtner, but took out the references to Medtner when the crowd wasn't pleased with the piece (its still not as beloved even after he butched his own work), Rach had very little artist integrity. https://youtu.be/2MwY03hBHqo?t=1633
>>129081360Mathematics is not related to music at all. But since we have ruckus about 'perfection' as if it's measurable, then surely Chopin is closest to such a concept, in a precise, mathematical sense.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfLkZTh0YDk
Bach and before, Schoenberg and after.
>>129081401Holy based.
great pianist-composers who also left great recordings:bartokrachfeinberganyone else?
>>129081393As far as I'm concerned, artist's sole purpose is to please his audience. Rachmaninoff was one of the most succesful composers in that regard.
>>129081414Medtner recorded his own music too.
time to try Craig Sheppard's Beethoven piano sonatas cycle>Between January 2003 and May 2004 at Seattle’s Meany Theater, Craig Sheppard played Beethoven’s 32 piano sonatas in chronological order over seven recitals.12th, "Funeral March"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12E-mit4GUY&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=4513th, "Quasi una fantasia"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H676I2Yu7kg&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=4914th, "Moonlight"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkQ-ETtCEg0&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=52
>>129081361I am a fool with a heart but no brains, and you are a fool with brains but no heart; and we’re both unhappy, and we both suffer.
>>129081430You should lobotomize yourself and make /classical/ great again.
>>129081414I believe both Stephen Hough and Marc-André Hamelincompose!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_LbbA1IQA0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yArCKkeEgt8&list=OLAK5uy_mZNQYlz5klm3mU42R0XYUmWcRrJqWANh0&index=3
>>129081415We here believe in being "outside of time" and remaining uninterested in the feelings of the audience. And we also mean that in regards to intentionally hostile music that is designed with the sole intent of alienating the audience (Such as in the case of Schoenberg, who has been quoted directly for having such aims.). The composer's aim is first and foremost to himself: he shows to the world what he believes is greatness, and hopes they too feel the same as he does towards it. Anything else is a grand waste of time, and not proper Art. To change your compositions for the audiences enjoyment (or opposite) is to create entertainment, or rather it might be said that it is to be composed by the audience, and to no longer be the composer.
>>129081423I can't tell exactly what's going on, but a lot of that cycle appears to be mislabeled.
>>129081451I was just about to check out Hamelin's composition actually. Thank you for reminding me to do that, thank you Iass.
>>129081470Art is a form of entertainment which evolutionary serves the purpose of attracting a mate and by extension social cohesion. Any other perspective is a redundant philosophical verbal trickery of no value.
>>129081505>evolutionary serves the purpose of attracting a mate Dumb popslopper mongrel. Go back to /mu/, actually you aren't even welcome there, go back to /pol/.
>>129081520I will stay here at home on /classical/, you can go over to >>>/lit/ with your decadent philosiphical circlejerk.
>>129081535Thank you retard.
>>129081540Thank you artsy-fartsy sister
I believe that a real composer writes music for no other reason than that it pleases him. Those who compose because they want to please others, and have audiences in mind, are not real artists. They are not the kind of men who are driven to say something whether or not there exists one person who likes it, even if they themselves dislike it. They are not creators who must open the valves in order to relieve the interior pressure of a creation ready to be born. They are merely more or less skilful entertainers who would renounce composing if they could not find listeners.Real music by a real composer might produce every kind of impression without aiming to. Simple and beautiful melodies, salty rhythms, interesting harmony, sophisticated form, complicated counterpoint - the real composer writes them with ease with which one writes a letter. "As if he were writing a letter" - this is what my comrades in the Austrian army said admiringly when, in the barracks, I wrote some music for a party given by the company. That this was not a remarkably beautiful piece but only one of average craftsmanship does not make any difference, because it often takes as much time to compose a letter as to write music. I personally belong to those who generally write very fast, whether it is "cerebral" or "spontaneous" melody.https://youtu.be/fzAFalLbXxg
>>129081573And yet what did Schoenberg actually say when off the cuff? >Schoenberg drew comparisons between Germany's assault on France and his assault on decadent bourgeois artistic values. In August 1914, while denouncing the music of Bizet, Stravinsky, and Ravel, he wrote: "Now comes the reckoning! Now we will throw these mediocre kitschmongers into slavery, and teach them to venerate the German spirit and to worship the German God".Face reality, Schoenberg delighted in his methods of alienated the audience and creating things that no one enjoyed. >Ehrm actually he wanted to SAVE classical, and actually it was just every single pupil he had, and every single person who was influenced by him who killed it, not him!Total delusion.
>>129081441/classical/ was never great
>>129081610>alienated the audiencealienating*
>>129081573Composers, or anyone for that matter, don't understand why they're doing what they're doing. They all have different ways of justifying it, but it's all arbitrary. The real reason why music exists was explained by Darwin more than a century ago, yet the absolute ignorant idiots aren't even aware of such concepts.Rest of your post is a pure verbal-diarrhea.>Simple and beautiful melodies, salty rhythms, interesting harmony, sophisticated form, complicated counterpoint This caught my attention though. Simple melodies, yet "complicated" and "sophisticated" form (something you don't even understand since you're a composerlet), huh? Interesting, the lengths verbal-diarrheas can go to.
>>129081624You are replying to a quote from Schoenberg, Iass, he posted it in response to me making a similar message while condemning Schoenberg >>129081470
best/favorite recording(s) of Rachmaninoff's Preludes and Etudes?
>>129081636Oh, well. Schoenberg is the epitome of verbal-diarrhea anyway, save for his half-decent Fundamentals of Musical Composition book, so it all fits.
No one should give in to limitations other than those which are due to the limits of his talent. No violinist would play, even occcasionally, with the wrong intonation to please lower musical tastes, no tight-rope walker would take steps in the wrong direction only for pleasure or for popular appeal, no chess master would make moves everyone could anticipate just to be agreeable (and thus allow his opponent to win), no mathematician would invent something new in mathematics just to flatter the masses who do not possess the specific mathematical way of thinking, and in the same manner, no artist, no poet, no philosopher and no musician whose thinking occurs in the highest sphere would degenerate into vulgarity in order to comply with a slogan such as "Art for All."Because if it is art, it is not for all, and if it is for all, it is not art.https://youtu.be/2o0_yPpmsg4
>>129081651>the epitome of verbal-diarrheIncorrect. That criticism would be much more accurate towards Fagner, who literally cannot speak a single coherent paragraph without contradiction or writing linguistic wallpaper.
>>129081652You are a redditor midwit or a female, overestimating the effects your consciousness has.
>>129081624yeah that examplr makes perfect sense , so idk what you arent getting>>129081573wtf overall , however
>>129081652>no tight-rope walker would take steps in the wrong direction only for pleasure or for popular appealSchoenberg did exactly that. We do agree with what he says, but he did not act in the ways of which he spoke. He preach to go left, and then turns right. We do not respect that here.
>>129081652> no mathematician would invent something new in mathematics just to flatter the masses who do not possess the specific mathematical way of thinkinglolmao hav actually done this one before why so loud forloflmaoooo
>Winston gets thrown out of /metal/ and now spams this threadAnd here I was wondering why the thread was moving Kpop-general tier fast lately while the quality of posts has reached an all-time-low. Please fucking return to your cesspool.
>>129081682No one asked, go back to /metal/.
>>129081681>>129081665>>129081667Thank you retards.
>>129081610What does Schoenberg calling non-German contemporary music kitschy and decadent have to do with his supposed desire of alienating audiences?
>>129081777>his assault on decadent bourgeois artistic valuesAka the audience. His goal was to annoy and antagonize the audience, to which he created a prescriptive manner of composition (twelve tone, which has zero relation to what we perceive as music) for that sole purpose, all other musical theory is descriptive in nature (we perceived these things as musical, and these are the formulations that these perceptions lead to).
>>129081644I don't have a favorite, all cycles are by modern hacks, it's best to listen to individual recordings by Hofmann, Paderewski, Moiseiwitsch, among others and of course Rachmaninoff himself. Lugansky is decent for the full set, if you insisthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHtkVgPEph4&list=OLAK5uy_nb9GKLdzixB_ENPQxo2GBTj11QQclyPKI&index=1
let it be known that /metal/ tourists killed /classical/
>>129082163Where are those "/metal/ tourists", anon? Are they in the room with us right now?
>>129082261excellent point /metal/sister
>>129082332What makes you think I'm one of your imaginary enemies?
>>129082358so true /metal/sister
>>129082261Are you retarded?
How can I learn to appreciate the Grosse Fuge. I've learned to appreciate and even love some of the thorniest atonal post-Schoenberg pieces but for some reason the Grosse Fuge just sounds like noise no matter how many times I spam it
>>129082379Elaborate
>>129082472Watch Atkinson you foolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQcHPhYEoJYLater, only highlighted themes:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzXO8b1ykkAlso, Shitenberg sucks.
Schoenberg is the greatest composer of the 20th century
>>129082542Water is wet
>>129082542Mahler, Rachmaninoff, Medtner, Scriabin, Prokofiev are far, far, far, FAR ahead. In fact, so far ahead that Schoenberg can be considered popslop for how repulsive his music is. Pushed only by the low IQ critics, there's little artistic value in his music. But feel free to cope, you are a product of decadent culture so goyslop is your natural diet, I guess.
>>129082572Thank you goyslopper
>>129082585Fire is hot
>>129082542True
>>129082542Correct.>>129082585Incorrect.
>>129082542Incorrect.>>129082585Correct.
the Vagner meme
>>129082542High IQ take>>129082585Low IQ take
>>129082673>>129082673>>129082673Novy
>>129082585True.>>129082542False.
>>129082585This.>>129082542Not this.
>>129082542Based>>129082585Cringe
>>129082585Factual.>>129082542Non-factual.
>>129082489thanks
https://voca.ro/1i6XJkadsnEEI've had this version of Dvorak's 9th symphony for decades, since I got it from a schoolmate's CD, but I can't pinpoint who is the director. Any hints?It is my favourite version by far.
>>129079630Mozarts writing ability got worse as he got older, his late stuff is repetitive trite
>>129083199fptmiu
