The greatest human who ever walked on earth editionThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPreviously, on /classical/: >>129123079
>A direct relation to morality has not as yet been generally ascribed to music. In fact music has even been judged as morally harmless. But that is just not so. Could an effeminate and frivolous taste remain without influence on a man’s morality? Both go hand in hand and act reciprocally upon each other. We could refer back to the Spartans, who forbade a certain type of music as injurious to morals. But instead, let us just think back to our own immediate past. With tolerable certainty we can state that those who have been inspired by Beethoven’s music have been more active and energetic citizens-of-state than those bewitched by Rossini, Bellini, and Donizetti, a class consisting for the most part of rich and lordly do-nothings.
>>129140654>Under the lead of Italian vocalism, Music had become an art of sheer agreeableness: one thus entirely denied to her the power of giving herself a like significance with the arts of Dante and Michelangelo, and had hence dismissed her, without more ado, to a manifestly lower rank of arts. Wherefore from out great Beethoven there was now to be won a quite new knowledge of her essence; the roots, whence Music had thriven to lust this height and this significance, were to be followed thoughtfully through Bach to Palestrina; and thus there was to be founded a quite other system for judging her aesthetically, than that which took its reckonings from a musical evolution lying far outside these masters' path.>Beethoven is the only true melody maker. What Rossini gave the world in a vulgar way is already entirely there in him, in a noble form; everything in him is melos.
>>129140590>with the implication and meaning gameI don't know why you turned it into this. It was just a simple quote and you have to read IMPLICATIONS into it. You have to put in so much effort to be angry. First you said he was just writing something meaningless to hear himself speak. Then you conceded okay the quote has some pedagogical importance but that he contradicted something he said about Beethoven somewhere else which has no relevance itt. It's obvious you're seething first and finding justifications later. Just say, what do YOU think is the truth here? Do you not think learning song is very important for musicians and composers?>You mean like Beethoven who was known to perform and improvise for people?Again, Beethoven was of course an expert in writing beautiful vocal music. Just because he didn't always demonstrate it doesn't mean he couldn't. The notion that Beethoven couldn't play cantabile on a piano is unbelievably moronic. A singer finding his music difficult is a completely different matter and is rendered irrelevant by Beethoven being a super genius that can curt corners sometimes and be forgiven.>Correct. We love autism here.Wow man, you're so quirky, autism is a superpower. The world is divided between normies and autists with super powers and you're one of the latter!
Greatest recorded pianist that we know of.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZtpJHhhAqE
>>129140692>It's obvious you're seething first and finding justifications later.kek. Gollum in a nutshell
>>129140697Why do bel canto schizos only post recordings from almost unparalleled musical talents when trying to demonstrate that way that all musicians should play? Yeah okay it's supposed to be a universal playing style with bel canto so post a normal person playing with it. Otherwise stop complaining when 99% of pianists don't play like that.
>>129140715That's fair. But I think there are very few unparalleled musicians of his level today, if any at all, and all the "top" pianists from Chopin competition (or any other competition for that matter) are mediocre at best and totally inauthentic at worst. That's all.
>>129137792
>One could, rather, call Mozart naïve because he worked in forms he did not create himself – only what he said within them was his own.-Wagner
It's Friday night, it's Chopin Nocturne time!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHXxWfSAxik
Handelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfJsLy74pdk&list=OLAK5uy_mpWJRtqLw6CjNdoU95DOCOv4k2GfqypFo&index=1
>>129140692>I don't know why you turned it into this.Way to throw your own crimes onto the other party. >First you said he was just writing something meaningless to hear himself speakIncorrect, firstly I said he contradicted himself, and when you suggested that in reality he never implied what he did, I said then he was just writing to hear himself speak like he often does. Its either option, pick your poison. Personally I believe it to be both. >Then you conceded okay the quote has some pedagogical importanceNever happened. Please quote where this happened. As for what I think the truth is here? I think Beethoven already proved Fagner wrong. > was of course an expert in writing beautiful vocal music.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Beethoven wrote vocal music in the same way one might sculpt using a jackhammer, yes technically he succeeded, but only because of his raw musical talent overpowering his inability to write for voice. >endered irrelevant by Beethoven being a super geniusThank you for the adulation, when you come back to reality let us all know. >autism is a superpowerCorrect. Eternal heils to the autistic.
>>129140715>schizosIts literally just norseposter, its one guy.
Melodic ability of the classical greats comparedHaydn: an unsurpassable inventiveness and a knack for folksy, whimisical melodiesMozart: yeah just add tons of trills and chromatic passing notes lmao that'll make it sound beautifulBeethoven: never wrote a melodySchubert: if I repeat it enough times it's goodHaydn is the clear winner
>>129141180I actually believe Haydn to be underrated, he should be the undisputed face of classical era, not Mozart. From what I've read this was actually the case in the past, and Mozart favoritism has been a relatively newer idea. I actually might even go ahead and say Haydn was more important than Beethoven too, you hear way too much Haydn in Beethoven, and the symphony/string quartet fascination was started and nearly perfected by him.
feels like a Mahler 4 morninghttps://files.catbox.moe/zpyx53.flac>“The greatest mix of colours that ever existed” was Gustav Mahler’s description of the third movement of his Fourth Symphony. Riccardo Chailly, one of the most adept interpreters of Mahler of our time, and the Gewandhaus Orchestra transformed the entire Fourth Symphony into this kaleidoscope of sound.
>>129141180Schubert and Mozart are by far some of the greatest melodists who ever lived along with Dvorak, Chopin and Tchaikovsky. Haydn and Beethoven are not even second-tier melodists, they never intended to be melodic in the first place, exceptions aside.
Analyzing prelude of Tristan und Isolde is hard. What sorcery is this?
>>129141427>What sorcery is this?Operatic slop.
Mackerras' Mahler
For today's opera performance, we listen to Richard Wagner's Das Rheingold, the first work in his The Ring of the Nibelung cycle, conducted by Herbert von Karajan and performed by the Berlin Philharmonic.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ1r186toso&list=OLAK5uy_nhOtN55RlOjWAek3gpbe48_010_qBehrg&index=4How's Boulez's Wagner/The Ring cycle? Also I was very, very close to listening to and posting Haitink's recording of this work but changed my mind last second based on this opening to a review I found,>I guess that Ring Cycles fall into categories: the tense and intense (Clemens Krauss, Karl Böhm, Joseph Keilberth, Pierre Boulez); epic, broad, and architectural (Wilhelm Furtwängler, Hans Knappertsbusch, Reginald Goodall, James Levine); colorful, poetic, and chamber-like (Herbert von Karajan); big-boned and volatile (Georg Solti); literal (Bernard Haitink, Marek Janowski). And then there’s this Bayreuth Ring led by Daniel Barenboim, recorded in 1991 and 1992. To be sure, it has most in common with the epic group, with a flow as deep and secure as the Rhine, but it is nowhere near as slow, measured, and self-conscious.
>>129141448My gut reaction is 'pls no' but seems to have nice reviews. Hurwitz on his 4th,>Charles Mackerras had style. No matter what the repertoire, or how interventionist his interpretation, he always worked with the music, never against it. His Mahler has all the typically Mahlerian hallmarks: generous portamento, careful observation of luftpauses, wide-ranging tempos, crisp and clear percussion, and basically perfect balances between strings and winds. The solo violin in the scherzo has lots of character; Sarah Fox sings the finale with the right sense of innocence and wonder, and the adagio’s variations merge seamlessly into one another–except where Mahler says that they shouldn’t. It all flows beautifully, and only a few moments of iffy ensemble betray the recording’s live provenance. There are too many superb performances of this symphony to say that this one belongs with the absolute best, but it’s very, very good, well recorded before a generally quiet audience, and a splendid memento of a truly great conductor. Rating: 9; 8 [1/12/2011]
>entire thread is about Wagner
>>129141465His 5th is surprisingly good too.
>>129141485Sorry, I'm (attempting to) getting into opera. And at least I posted music. The next opera I post won't be Wagner.
>>129141495The next one should be Wagner.
I'll forever be grateful to Jochum's Bruckner for helping me get into the symphonies, but man I just do not enjoy listening to them anymore. Too dry in its sonority and too nervous in its interpretation.
>W*gner mentioned 6 timesBrahms Brahms Brahms Brahms Brahms Brahms Brahms
>>129140957>HandelListening!>Eberhard Kraus Who?
>>129141535thank you brother>pic: brahmsfog taking over my city
>>129141539NTA, but here you gohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q500ZQ7sLrY&list=OLAK5uy_n-OKSebRYMFIqrGySKWurJDjAo0itHUEg&index=15
>>129141558Holy reverb, not listening!
>>129132940>he WOULDN'T call Webern a genius
>>129141591grr okay one more tryhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=og3jXnYuGwk&list=OLAK5uy_nnZf-elZn7XSFGjEpnLoGfaMRRbMd2Z4A&index=21
>>129141602There's nothing genius about second rate Schoenberg, who is a second rate Wagner himself.
>>129141539https://www.discogs.com/artist/851672-Eberhard-Kraus
>>129141602Webern was a genius for showing everyone of any intelligence that the SVS was a hilarious joke, if someone told me he was actually a nazi sympathizer who was sent as a double agent to destroy atonality I would believe it.
>>129141618> Keith JarrettWe are listening... with high levels of skepticism involved...
>>129141453I'm really liking this one. If only all opera singing sounded like this.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3ZPEJwbmHI&list=OLAK5uy_nhOtN55RlOjWAek3gpbe48_010_qBehrg&index=6
>Haydn was and remained a servant of princes and was obliged as a musician to provide for the entertainment of his ostentatious master; temporary interruptions, such as his visits to London, did little to alter the way he practised his art since even there he was always just a musician recommended and paid for by the grandees. Submissive and obsequious, he retained to an advanced age the tranquillity of a benevolent and cheerful disposition; only his eye looking at us from his portrait is full of a gentle melancholy. On the other hand, Mozart’s life was a constant struggle to secure a peaceful existence which in his case proved especially difficult. As a child, he was the pet of half of Europe; as a young man he found obstacles in the way of the satisfaction of his lively inclinations which weighed on him to the point of oppression. No sooner had he achieved adulthood than he fell sick and ailed before succumbing to an early, miserable death. From the first it was unbearable to him to be a musician in the service of a prince: he seeks to feed on the applause of the great public, he gives concerts and arranges ‘academies’; what he had fleetingly gained is sacrificed to his love of life. Haydn’s prince was constantly demanding new entertainment; Mozart had daily to provide something new in order to attract the public. Superficial conception and routine performance thus do more than anything to explain the character of their work. Haydn wrote his truly noble masterpieces in old age when he was enjoying the comfort assured by foreign fame. Mozrt never reached this point: his most beautiful works were conceived between moments of elation and fear of the immediate future. Thus he was always dreaming of rewarding employment with a prince as a desired means of attaining a life more favourable to artistic production. A King of Prussia offers him what is denied him by his Emperor. He remains true to ‘his Emperor’ and in consequence perishes in poverty.
>>129141814>; only his eye looking at us from his portrait is full of a gentle melancholyJust another random Fagner projection. I have never read a single worthwhile thing from this morons mouth. I might even just stop bothering at all.
>>129141633but Webern is better than Schoenberg
>>129141836why the fuck were you still reading themI think I stopped reading these long Wagner posts for over a year now
>>129141633but Schoenberg is better than Webern
>>129141686I have something for youhttps://xent.com/FoRK-archive/may98/0469.html
>>129141915not really no
>>129141947yes really
But Schoenberg and Webern are better than Wagner.
>>129141932Lol, honestly more believable than any composer actually taking the shit Webern composed seriously.
>>129141892not really no
Webern > Schoenberg > Berg
>>129142017not really no
>>129142254This, but the exact opposite.
>>129141932>>129142107Lmfao. No way this isn't a samefag
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w15J-JFjfgg
>>129141903Idk, one part of me thinks "surely he can't have written several novels worth of complete junk" or "surely there must be a tinge of merit if the Fagnertrannies are this obsessed", yet everytime its just more garbage.
>>129142282Thank you retard.
now playingTchaikovsky: Romeo and Juliet, Fantasy Overture, TH 42https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHnbxASoe5E&list=OLAK5uy_mOGJWDf7yTLnM2vAW8jEXSu6yu6xTdcow&index=19start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 4 in F Minor, Op. 36https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYyXI6e-_VY&list=OLAK5uy_mOGJWDf7yTLnM2vAW8jEXSu6yu6xTdcow&index=20Tchaikovsky: Francesca da Rimini, Op. 32https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcZWrwSHy0U&list=OLAK5uy_mOGJWDf7yTLnM2vAW8jEXSu6yu6xTdcow&index=24start of Tchaikovsky: Symphony No. 5 in E Minor, Op. 64https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoxUdQZ7-S0&list=OLAK5uy_mOGJWDf7yTLnM2vAW8jEXSu6yu6xTdcow&index=25https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mOGJWDf7yTLnM2vAW8jEXSu6yu6xTdcowPletnev's interpretations of these symphonies is unique and refreshingly superb.
Wagner's Siegfried Idyll, arranged for piano by Glenn Gould, performed by Glenn Gouldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_104zS6pDoQ&list=OLAK5uy_mkSKnBoGr-VcCuWw-Q9n4KlM-nOrIMjuA&index=9
>>129142447Glenn GOOOOOOOOOULD:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4yAB37wG5s
>>129142447>>129142476thanks ghould sissies
>>129142520Once Glenn, Always Gould:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTZ33EVK3Ughttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzEHv1bmo2Q
i think people who still inherently dislike serialism are fake classical enjoyers and shouldn't be allowed in here.
>>129142601Record yourself humming a tone row and post it on vocaroo and here right now. For the second task, you will be asked to guess composer by the tone row. If you fail, you are a poseur. Time is ticking, complete your tasks or in 30 minutes you will be declared a poseur by /classical/.
>>129142447This is fuckin' incredible, and because of it I will revisit a ton of Gould's best recordings.>>129142520Did you listen to it?
It's finally out, a new immersive musical experience the likes of which you have never heard beforehttps://youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nrBR2V0XOXVus_nulWkjTlxgWTw_qJD1I&si=ehLpc5PCDW0qJQ2O
I have the urge to listen to tonal chromatic slop. Barrage of nonstop chromatic harmony and delayed resolutions. Is Scriabin the only way?
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7q1riLe_1RE&list=OLAK5uy_k9ZNL3B579kt7dmu0S7aVcOB6kKZ2pLs4&index=15
>>129142999https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1nzIReSbe8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N_CLBk12a4
>>129142999>not atonal diatonic slopNgm
>>129142838i won't listen to anything by Gould again until the day I die
random requiem lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0soFX1OINyo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiRySfETBdg
i WILL learn to appreciate Beethoven's Diabelli Variations, Op. 120 one dayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7SdHbKwtUInon-hisshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PebmYKm-BE4
Did you KNEEL for Wagner today?
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 14 in C-Sharp Minor, Op. 27 No. 2 "Moonlight"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRmuSLwPUeY&list=OLAK5uy_lrKET-7urNICXv89UoOSX06Du9p_SMcj4&index=2start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 8 in C Minor, Op. 13 "Pathétique"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KqfkY_ttxs&list=OLAK5uy_lrKET-7urNICXv89UoOSX06Du9p_SMcj4&index=5start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 23 in F Minor, Op. 57 "Appassionata"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlF9pHmnO7g&list=OLAK5uy_lrKET-7urNICXv89UoOSX06Du9p_SMcj4&index=7https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lrKET-7urNICXv89UoOSX06Du9p_SMcj4>Rudolf Serkin's early 1960s accounts of the most popular "name" sonatas, on a CBS "Great Performances" mid-price CD, are compellingly direct and offer excellent value. The playing is deliberate, but hardly theatrical: as always, the pianist emphasizes the virtues of literalism. The recordings are closely miked and sonorous, and convey good piano tone along with every breath, sigh, groan, and vocalization Serkin produces. The Adagio of the Pathetique is especially lovely. --Ted Libbey
Sometimes I get in the mood to listen to Chopin, but then I can't quite think of which works to listen to, so I change my mind and listen to something else. Maybe I need to start making my own custom mixes.
>>129144095Get real:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ujo6z3Js7Os
>>129144120I don't usually get in the mood for Chopin, since I'm in the mood for Chopin by default, but my mood varies from sonatas to concerti to scherzi to nocturnes to ballades to polonaises to etudes to waltzes etc. If you don't know what to listen to, just go with the scherzi.
>>129144243My issue is I like to put on a recording then lay down and listen to it, so if a recording doesn't have the right program/tracklist, I'mma pass. Sure, sometimes I'm in the mood for the entire Nocturnes or 4 Ballades or Etudes or both Sonatas, but sometimes I'm not, and that's when things get iffy.np chopin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBqA1vd4ldY&list=OLAK5uy_k9ZNL3B579kt7dmu0S7aVcOB6kKZ2pLs4&index=1
>>129144158Real talk: I do quite like Brendel's Beethoven.
For today's opera performance, we listen to Bellini's Norma conducted by Tullio Serafin.openinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WM-09Wn7Ic&list=OLAK5uy_kcXgvHvVYAtdkjWhH_4o3R92i_WzFtmm8&index=2random part with vocalshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSLdgA8c5nY&list=OLAK5uy_kcXgvHvVYAtdkjWhH_4o3R92i_WzFtmm8&index=39I almost went with the Levine recording but then every user review was "Maria Callas this" and "Maria Callas that," so fug it, let's listen to the benchmark one with Maria Callas!
>>129140823and what form (category) did Wagner create? the soundtrack?>let's rename the opera into gesamtkunstwerkthat's quite rich coming from a man who died in Venice lol
>>129144476>and what form (category) did Wagner create? the soundtrack?
>>129144476Are you retarded or what? He created music dramas. His "operas" are not actual operas
>>129144337You can also just put on Cortot, it doesn't matter what he's playing, as long as he's the one playing.>>129144449>let's listen to the benchmark one with Maria Callas!BASED
Fagner created the tranime OST form, and hence created the first trannies through his fandom. Based.
>>129144947>His "operas" are not actual operasDo the singers sing in tune? Not opera. Do they warble around the note like a guitarist having an epileptic fit on the whammy bar? It's opera.
>>129144449Don't you love this aria? So fucking beautiful. Sends shivers down my spine.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEmtmoxeI-Y
>>129144449should have gone with Varviso 1967 but that's the second best one
>>129145075you know vibrato IS just one note being sung right? It's just being interrupted by silence so the singing sounds "bumpy", but it's not sing different notes.
>>129145471NTA. Incorrect. Vocal vibrato is pitch and dynamics.
>>129145471Leo Fender? I thought you were dead!
>>129142316I'm mostly impressed by a quality of the sound capture in what I assume is a normal apartment.
>>129144947>it's a music drama, my dear, not an opera>no, it's not a madrigal either, it's a music dramado you think my Venice remark was gratuitous?
>>129142316how long could she play before becoming exhausted?
Wagner is civilization.
>>129140997You literally think studying song isn't important for the average musician to be able to play/compose cantabile. You're retarded.
>>129147561No one said that, who ya talkin to Iass?
>>129145363>>129144449wtf i like opera now!?
>>129141529Why did you like them before? Who do you like now?
>>129146359Wasn't he a trasvesti?
>>129148402Because Jochum is still a great conductor, and they were my introduction. I just prefer my Bruckner done differently now.>Who do you like now?Karajan, Skrowaczewski, Barenboim, Sinopoli, sometimes Wand, the list goes on...The most important thing is lushness, not dryness.
>>129148471Whom should I listen to the ? Compare Karajan, bateboim, etc.
>>129148599Try them all, including Jochum's. You might like his approach.>Compare Karajan, bateboim, etc.no
>>129148603Ogey
>>129141427which aspects are you analyzing and are you doing this as an assignment or just out of interest?
>>129141485God is literally Wagner.
Stupid Americans always pronouncing Wagners name wrong, it's supposed to be pronounced more like "Fagner" you're welcome
>>129142999I gotchu, senpai.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mvS3DKq9qk
>>129148640more like fugg-ner.:DD
>>129148612I guess what I mean is even if I tried describing their approaches to Bruckner (Wand with his earthy tone, Karajan with his aristocratic detachment like an aesthete God, Barenboim with power and heart), it wouldn't mean anything if you weren't already familiar with the music. And everyone has their own tastes for Bruckner anyway, for which conductor and recordings suit them best, so you ought to find out first hand on your own.
>The best modern Lohengrin.>This is the finest Lohengrin to come along since Kempe'strue?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zEKkbOIovY&list=OLAK5uy_liobAcD3F_jMdBjRN6rWZ7Yuxygbt9Ftw&index=21
>>129148640I always say vagna>>129148664who has the best recordings? Does Karjan stuff hold up to modern standards? I would expect it to be quite flat, maybe I shouldn't bother, but I don't know much on the subject, maybe I am wrong.
>>129149009If I could only have one, I'd pick Karajan's cycle.> Does Karjan stuff hold up to modern standards? Yes. It's the earlier generation of recordings you need to be suspicious of (ex. if someone recommends you Furtwanger's Bruckner, run!), Karajan's Bruckner cycle on DG sounds as good as any recording today.
>>129148625Harmony, out of interest. I realized it's not that hard, just french sixth chords, chromatic mediants and bunch of chromatic non-chord tones. But composing something like that is the real challenge
best Bruckner 3?best Bruckner 4?best Bruckner 5?best Bruckner 6?best Bruckner 7?best Bruckner 8?best Bruckner 9?
>>129149142assuming you have a good ear to begin with, becoming experienced at playing an instrument (and that includes knowing how to improvise in various styles) will help you the most in composing.
>>129148762The best Lohengrin since Kempe was Kubelik.Absolutely astounding choir work, King and Ridderbusch are the greatest ever in their perspective roles.
>>129149182consult Dave.
>>129144358He is the only one plays the second movement of Op.111 with sovl, by comparison Trifonov was just lust and rage:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcFFxvG8pWgPathétique however has to be Barenboim and Zimerman:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8XYrNrlBj4And lil Dovgan here is having some fun with it too:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52sA5djJKZM
>>129149390Sandor Konya and Lauritz Melchior are the greatest Lohengrins and there's no competition.
Put on one of the state owned radio channels that always plays classical music from 00:00 to 06:00 tonight right when I started work and heard this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sjh37e5U2PEWanting to know what it was (because I couldn't spell latin or the composers name from just the host saying it afterwards) I went to the website to look up the playlist. And those fuckers wrote that it was Beethoven - Coriolan Overture, Op 62. I knew there was zero chance that was Beethoven so I had to go to the website now that I'm home and relisten to what the host said and try to spell "Laetatus sum and Grzegorz Gorczycki. Fortunately I found the piece.Anyway, here's a ton of playlists of classical music.https://www.ebu.ch/music/notturno#playlists>>129148640That's completely wrong.
>>129149704>That's completely wrong.not completely. he's right about Americans being stupid.
>>129149732kek
Isouardhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWdRbTflAxE
So it appears there are a lot of recordings of Wagner's Tristan und Isolde, even from names you wouldn't normally see like Bernstein. What are all of the worthwhile recordings of it?>>129149182karajin/berlin for all except the 7th and 8th, there you do karajan/vienna, or Giulini for the last three
>>129149704lol
>>129149954Here's another conductor who never did any other Wagner.>Carlos Kleiber’s 1980–82 recording of Tristan has become legendary. The extended sessions frustrated Kleiber so much that he abandoned the project entirely, swearing never to record again after Deutsche Grammophon released it anyway. But the result is mesmerizing. Kleiber’s dark, restless interpretation infuses the score with a feverish intensity, brilliantly realized by the Staatskapelle Dresden. His unexpected choice of Margaret Price as Isolde, a fundamentally lyrical soprano, works beautifully in the studio, where she delivers an exquisitely sensual performance, even if it lacks the sheer dramatic heft expected on stage. René Kollo is a solid Tristan, singing with a pleasing tone despite some struggles in the upper register. The supporting cast is superb, especially Kurt Moll’s imposing King Marke and Brigitte Fassbaender’s vivid Brangäne.
Americans do pronounce it incorrectly. But the problem is the end, not the beginning. Standard German is non-rhotic (like British English).
I must confess that I like romantic and baroque music better
>>129150396Reminds me of the time my friend lost a bet to me because he was convinced he was Neet-chee and not, as I corrected him, Neet-chuh. hehe ezmoney kid
>>129148471>BarenboimChicago or Berlin?
>>129150594If you like a rawer, harsher sound, Chicago; if you like more traditional beautiful sonority, Berlin.If you're asking me, Berlin most of the time, though I do peep the Chicago 4th and 5th from time to time.
For today's opera performance, we listen to Janacek's The Cunning Little Vixen conducted by Sir Simon Rattle and performed by the London Symphony Orchestra.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lo-Hba1yUAc&list=OLAK5uy_k2thTloARZ7CvF2ep7orBUEi-2vzlMYwU&index=11>Melodious and charming, The Cunning Little Vixen is a work rooted in Czech history and folk music; a sentimental journey through the cycles of life. For Sir Simon Rattle, it's a deeply personal and emotional work. "It's the piece that made me want to become an opera conductor... and still one of the pieces that reduces me to tears more easily than any other," says the LSO's Music Director. Recorded with an outstanding cast during semi-staged performances, this recording is the second in an LSO Live series showcasing acclaimed collaborations between Rattle and the celebrated stage director Peter Sellars. Towering fanfares open Janácek's Sinfonietta, an ode to the composer's hometown of Brno in the now Czech Republic. It's a portrait composed for a national celebration of Slavic culture, with Janácek's love of musical tradition evident in dancing strings and celebratory brass.
Ravelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4uqNYgF6mQ&list=OLAK5uy_kn1-uq31xfSbRQfy4RVkxSHovpGZ--AFA&index=5>There used to be an entry in the Guinness Book of World Records to the effect that Ravel wrote the least amount of music of any great composer. And if you look at the orchestrations that he made of piano originals, then the amount of music becomes smaller still. Many of his most popular works, including the ubiquitous Pavane for a Dead Princess, the Valses Nobles et Sentimentales, Alborada del Gracioso, Le Tombeau de Couperin, Mother Goose, and Une Barque sur l'Ocean exist in both orchestral an piano versions, but there's still a good bit of original piano music, including the lovely Sonatine and most importantly, Gaspard de la Nuit. Thibaudet has played all of this music since he started teething: he knows it and loves it, and it shows. --David Hurwitz
If Beethoven's 32 piano sonatas were the only piano works I could listen to for the rest of my life, I wouldn't even be that upset
RachAnon, what do you think about Samson Francois' Chopin?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TZdkh-oWX8&list=OLAK5uy_k7AbSaSxzH58tR0XodxaYi2FXocoUdbzA&index=52
>>129149182>best Bruckner 3?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR46_qun0SQ
>>129150850No HISS, VERTICAL playing, missing the cantabile HORIZONTAL belcanto playing, can actually hear the instrument with clarity, no volume cutting in and out, overall completely terrible Listen to Hofmann and Cortot
>>129150880Does Cortot have a complete Nocturnes? No? Dismissed.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYPJduy7BNE&list=OLAK5uy_k7AbSaSxzH58tR0XodxaYi2FXocoUdbzA&index=151
>>129150901No rubato, his melody does not SING like Cortot, no hand separation, ignorant of the bel cantonese method of playing, plays VERTICAL and mandorin methods, garbage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5X7LRYbrUU
now playingChopin: Fantaisie in F Minor, Op. 49 (Live)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDZT72qf7v8&list=OLAK5uy_mbGNCoz90dQH7N_Q1cZfbFvq4civ77t3U&index=2Chopin: Ballade No. 4 in F Minor, Op. 52 (Live)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjyGB6Jfd0U&list=OLAK5uy_mbGNCoz90dQH7N_Q1cZfbFvq4civ77t3U&index=3Chopin: Polonaise in A-Flat Major, Op. 53 "Heroic" (Live)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqKF0_3SJvE&list=OLAK5uy_mbGNCoz90dQH7N_Q1cZfbFvq4civ77t3U&index=4Chopin: Barcarolle in F-Sharp Major, Op. 60 (Live)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYF-9-60w-k&list=OLAK5uy_mbGNCoz90dQH7N_Q1cZfbFvq4civ77t3U&index=5Chopin: Polonaise-fantaisie in A-Flat Major, Op. 61 (Live)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu790MztDf4&list=OLAK5uy_mbGNCoz90dQH7N_Q1cZfbFvq4civ77t3U&index=6Chopin: Mazurka No. 49 in F Minor, Op. 68/4 (Live)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA-h7CBVyhg&list=OLAK5uy_mbGNCoz90dQH7N_Q1cZfbFvq4civ77t3U&index=6For some reason I felt like listening to a random Chopin recital recording and this is the first one I found. What's interesting is all of these tracks have a significant number of plays, so this pianist must be a known entity in Japan and elsewhere. Decent program/selection of pieces too.>>129150880>>129150932peep this and tell me how much it sucks
>>129150932I don't know what any of those buzzwords mean, so I say again to you, does Cortot have a complete Nocturnes? No? Then dismissed. He's probably missing other essential pieces too.
Chopinhttps://youtu.be/zv4ct3WXhuo
my rule-of-thumb: I don't trust any performer with a sub 10 minute Chopin Ballade No. 4
>>129150985I really need to finally give this guy's Beethoven piano sonatas cycle a try.>Solomon was working his way through a Beethoven Sonata cycle for EMI when he suffered the stroke in 1956 that ended his career. damn
>>129150955>>129150975How can you even know quality Chopin if you don't even have the ears to notice Bel Cantonese vs Mandarin methods of playing? Modern pianists can only play VERTICAL, no rubato, just metronome. They have never once playing DIAGONALLY as Hofmann does.https://youtu.be/fqPN4gXy834
>>129151016You didn't try/comment on the recording I posted :(
If Wagner did not exist, neither would Chopin.
>>129150850His ballades are not bad.>>129150975Cortot's nocturnes are the best there is. You're missing out if you haven't listened to them. Quit setslopping>>129150880>>129150932thank you concern trollJust goes to prove that I was right all along, you're a troll
>>129151032Which is why I'm spending the day alternating between listening to Wagner and Chopin.np Wagnerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF2cxenJaHU&list=OLAK5uy_niMqJeBhTDA8VOtJTXKn4fd66vwOb5Pas&index=6np Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu_8D8bZJcc&list=OLAK5uy_k7AbSaSxzH58tR0XodxaYi2FXocoUdbzA&index=14this is sublimity made manifest
>>129151016thank you concern troll>>129151019Why are you replying to a bait?
>>129151056>Why are you replying to a bait?I thought they were teasing.
>>129151019I listened, no improvisation, no soul, no emotion, just metrognome VERTICAL phrases. Listen to Hofmann's total control and mastery of the instrument. This is PERPENDICULAR playing, modern performaners have no ability for such things anymore, lost to time, only the greats of the past knew of it. Listen to Cortot for true playing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAZa4zE712g
>>129151059No, you're replying to a buckbroken verticalslopper. Now please, listen to Cortot's op.27 no.1 nocturne, I can promise you there is not a single better interpretation out there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCahvo6TbRg
For today's opera performance, we listen to Mozart's Die Zauberflöte (The Magic Flute) conducted by Karl Bohm and performed by the Berlin Philharmonic.openinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfsgfxr-jp4&list=OLAK5uy_mZ26QnrwjE786IQMmrf2zz6iy2wcZlBpc&index=2random vocal parthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix5n-B1PNO4&list=OLAK5uy_mZ26QnrwjE786IQMmrf2zz6iy2wcZlBpc&index=17
>>129151075It's alright but I don't get the big deal. I actually even like the Samson Francois one more.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCJJIaX_kHw&list=OLAK5uy_k7AbSaSxzH58tR0XodxaYi2FXocoUdbzA&index=140
>>129151131Low IQ listeners cannot hear the greatness of Cortot's INTERSECTING playing, your ears have been broken by verticalsloppery of the modern era. Here, listen to how the OLD MASTERS play, thankfully they were recorded in 1912 so we can still hear the true Cantonese methods of playing in the gold age. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y6zdAbN9o8
Even though I'm still a novice in opera music, I want to try listening to modern recordings by living conductors, but it seems perilous because the impression I get is in opera, even more so than other classical genres, the seminal classic recordings have such a large presence (ie they're still the most commercially successful recordings of the work), that many newer recordings try to go the route of reinvention and innovation, trying something new and different instead of just directly trying to perform the work in the best possible way with a standard interpretation, because if you don't, then why would anyone buy yours over the classic recordings by the masters?Given this, I don't wanna be tricked into listening to an incredibly unidiomatic performance of a work I'm not familiar with yet, so my only option remains to explore all of those seminal classic recordings first, despite my desire to listen to something recorded in this millennium
>>129151045>Cortot's nocturnes are the best there is. You're missing out if you haven't listened to them. Quit setslopping...but how can he have the best if he didn't record anywhere close to them all? That's like saying Uchida has the best Beethoven piano sonatas or Richter has the best Shostakovich 24 Preludes and Fugues.
guys, can you two stop? please and thank you
Ashkenazy's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVFWmfy0M08&list=OLAK5uy_lfVNF5I3_646ocrdnJfOcCOgLnX_xwOog&index=92
>>129151250Cortot could have only recorded the opening of his keylid and that alone would be enough to regard his interpretations of the nocturnes as the best. The soul and hand separation when he opens the lid... godly. Modern pianists open the lid VERTICALLY, but Hofmann and Cortot know to open it HORIZONTALLY with each hand independent of each other, that is the bel cantonese method of piano opening that modern pianists cannot master.
and so we reach the end of Craig Sheppard's Beethoven piano sonatas cycle28thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7WyqQUi-N0&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=8929th, "Hammerklavier"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSkHXWAMwWc&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=9230thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfVuN8PWBpA&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=9631sthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWznPtpJquU&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=9932ndhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAJT4s5wKZY&list=OLAK5uy_n2jjRQ6eHQb2GjQEtvFyV__iwdDKurx7c&index=10It was a fun time. I hope the performances of these sublime late piano sonatas match the quality standard set by the rest of the set!
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tnf_N8SC7uk&list=OLAK5uy_klI6VBz6pvRKIV48jc-5yttehqkr88LgE&index=14
>>129150815> only piano works I could listen to for the rest of my lifeViolin or cello for me. Just piano sounds like torture.
>>129151440I meant specifically for piano pieces, not that they'd be the only works I can listen to at all, though they wouldn't be poor choices.>Violin or cello for me.Okay, if you could only listen to one violin work for the rest of your life (sonata or concerto or similar), what would it be? And for the cello?You'd still be able to listen to classical pieces in other forms.
Wagner.
So I listened to Das Rheingold yesterday. Which recording of Wagner's Die Walküre should I listen to today?And again I ask, how's Boulez's Ring cycle?
>>129150932Go back to youtube comment sections ldf
>>129151470> I meant specifically for piano pieces,Fair enough.> Okay, if you could only listen to one violin work for the rest of your life (sonata or concerto or similar), what would it be? Stravinsky Violin Concerto for concertos, Bach Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin. Partita #2 if I have to choose one.> And for the cello?Easy. Bach Cello suites. Mainly because there are so many different interpretations. We need more pieces with minimal markings so artist are free to perform as they want. Either Saint Saens or Shostakovitch First Cello Concerto if we're talking Cello with Orchestra.
confession: whenever I hear the famous Flight of the Valkyries Wagner piece/movement, I cringe a little because it feels like I'm listening to a film soundtrack or, worse, a commercial, so I generally skip it when I come across it on an Wagner orchestral recording. Yes I know this is unfair to the piece and a bit silly, but it's how I feel, it is what it is.
I'm confused, someone is falseflagging as the RachAnon? Well that's super cringe. Cease being an autist and stop it.
>>129151521>ldf?
>>129151563>I cringe a little because it feels like I'm listening to a film soundtrack or, worse, a commercial, so I generally skip it when I come across itThis is me whenever I hear any of Fagner's OST garbage.
>>129151533nice picks.>We need more pieces with minimal markings so artist are free to perform as they want.holy based. This is what makes Bach's music such a parallel to the Platonic Form.
>>129151570>I'm confused, someone is falseflagging as the RachAnon?Melanated IQ unironically.
>>129151591pls no bully
>>129151343>There can never be such a thing as a “definitive” cycle of the Beethoven piano sonatas. Such an achievement lies beyond the grasp of one individual, I believe. In any case one would not wish to be without the insights of several pianists in this music – Brendel and Schnabel, despite his technical fallibilities, are just two names that spring immediately to mind in this connection. However, this cycle by Craig Sheppard deserves to be ranked among the very best. It is an involving, communicative, carefully considered, satisfying and deeply musical traversal of the thirty-two sonatas. There are significant gains to be captured through hearing an artist explore these wide ranging and very varied works in chronological order and I feel that I have a greater grasp of the scale of Beethoven’s achievement as a result. --- John Quinn, MusicWebhttps://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2006/nov06/beethoven_sheppard_723341.htm
>>129151597I thought /classical/ was supposed to be the high IQ general.
Has RachAnon learned to appreciate Rachmaninoff's Vespers yet?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFZsUWYpi14&list=OLAK5uy_nH-Z6BzaBnBTksqwSMct-wHsWFWbSItko&index=12
>>129151632Well at first I thought they're exaggerated, caricature posts was them teasing and joking around. But yes now it does seem more like someone mocking them.
>>129151655Vulgar and lowbrow churchslop for the masses. Rachmaninoff had low IQ and should have read Darwin like me.
>>129151664No one ever mocks anyone else on this general, and every copypaste from the archive is in good faith, never to troll. I think you must be confused as to our culture and traditions here.
I'm so excited. I've always been a fan of Tureck's recording of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier on DG, but, despite my love of her interpretation, the hiss just made it unlistenable for me. Well, I only now discovered the putative "high priestess of Bach" recorded another set two decades later for BBC, and I'm now listening to it :)
>>129151504I don't get it, where are all the Wagner fans when I need a rec or ask about recordings? Sometimes I think a lot of the people posting about him are faking it. Whatever, I'll listen to Solti's.
>>129151655I don't think I'll learn to appreciate it more than I already do, but I'll listen to that one later today.Did you already listen to Meistersinger?
>>129151735>Sometimes I think a lot of the people posting about him are faking itMelanated IQ unironically.
>>129151741Oh, I could have sworn you weren't that into it when I asked you a long time ago. As for the recording, I don't know if it's as good as the most popular one by Shaw, but you can't ever go wrong with anything by Matthew Best/Corydon Singers!>Did you already listen to Meistersinger?That's an odd non-sequitur. No I have not. What does Klemperer's (in)famous Mahler 9th and glorious Wagner Siegfried Idyll and Strauss Metamorphosen has to do with it?
>>129151571ladivinafanatic, an infamous pianist on youtube who's obsessed with bel canto style and trashing modern performers
>>129151504
>>129151504Thielemann for modern
>>129151771Lol, Bel Canto truly does equal Beta Cantonese
You failed to comprehend 20th century music. Don't worry, most people do.Just remember that composers like Schoenberg and Webern spend their entire lives learning and thinking about music - don't expect to "get" or "like" what they're doing straight away.Its fine to say you don't like 20th century music, or don't like certain composers or pieces, but calling them mediocre and trying to act superior to them aint going to fly - you are massively inferior to them in knowledge and experience.Right now you are on the left hand side of the Dunning-Kruger graph - full of confidence, but with minimal knowledge on the subject. As you learn more, you will realize you don't actually know what you're talking about, and then as you learn even more, you will be able to comprehend a serious discussion about 20th century music.There isn't much point in us trying to "defend" these composers - you clearly aren't ready for them. Get comfortable with Bartok, Penderecki and Lutoslawski and then we can talk.
I get why people like much of Gould's Bach -- I like some of it when I'm in the mood -- but his WTC is genuinely nothing special, and is only such a popular recording because it has its name attached. For a similar approach, Gulda's is far, far superior.
>>129151563yes, the piece has a fixed meaning, it's become slop because it has an affixed presence in culture. very sad, many such cases.
>>129151862Thank you for the copypaste spam.
Wagnerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLl81xISLjA&list=OLAK5uy_mDpPnV8-MKSVWxc-i_pxVxh-mvd6gB4gg&index=24
>>129151741>>129151766>Did you already listen to Meistersinger?Are you saying I should? Which recording would you recommend?
>>129151873It's because he played piano like it was a harpsichord, maintained the tempo, removed improvised crap, perfectly executed, which is the closest to what Bach's original intention when he wrote those music down.Nobody else did it before him - except for those lived in Bach's time of course, and nobody else did it after him - they are either religious nuts who refuse to play Bach's keyboard work on piano, or the opposite, who enjoy playing Bach like he was possessed by Chopin.
>>129151967I thought about people liked about Gould's Bach is he was playful, not faithful. His WTC is very much "Gould's WTC" -- Schiff's WTC sounds like a faithful piano adaption that tries to be harpsichord-esque as much as possible.
The French understood Wagner better than anybody, which is ironic considering his resentment toward them. Who knew it was the very people he disliked would be the ones to bring his ideas to apotheosis.Mahler sucks by the way.
>>129152354>Alkan accurately noted Wagner’s unpopularity in Paris but ‘found it impossible to explain why such rubbish happened in Germany’. Apparently Alkan had met many people, artists and amateurs, who shared the same viewpoint, even if it were not openly expressed. Finally, with an appropriate verbal flourish, Alkan declared that Wagner was ‘not a musician, but a disease’.
>>129151589> This is what makes Bach's music such a parallel to the Platonic Form.I wish there were more music written free from any guardrails, any trappings of meaning - in that case any perceived meaning reflects really on the performer.
>>129151873>his WTC is nothing specialHe already starts off strong by avoiding excessive pedal on the first prelude (which 99% of pianists do) and using alternate staccato/legato articulations on the rising arpeggios, which he gradually transforms into full legato in the climax before going back to staccato. I don't think it's the best recording of BWV 846 (that would be Busoni, hiss and all), but it's certainly a special one that I respect a lot.That's not even getting into the next prelude with the prokofiev-esque voicings in the bass and the inner voices he brings out, or the c# minor fugue that's played with perfect transparency, the e minor prelude which he uses a similar tecnique of alternating staccato/legato to create tensionI could keep going but you get the gist, for every p&f he brings out some hidden idea or voice that very few performers do, it doesn't always work IMO but it's definitely a unique set
>not listening to Offenbach and embracing being a clown in a world that refuses to smileMahlerchuds and Chopincels NGMIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lznTO_6Tik&list=RD8lznTO_6Tik&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CM3PPGiXIQ&list=RD-CM3PPGiXIQ&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GL6OyfAz5pA&list=RDGL6OyfAz5pA&start_radio=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mnn9RG_4p7w&list=RDMnn9RG_4p7w&start_radio=1
>>129152514Well said.
For today's opera performance, we listen to Modest Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov (1872 version) conducted by Valery Gergiev and performed by the Mariinsky Orchestra.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2GAa_72Aqo&list=OLAK5uy_mga_LhKF8oDbclwj_1kPcOEuwLuQ-vCn0&index=4>"In the expanded (1872) portrait the character [Boris] is more equivocal, more self-searching, clearly verging on modness, and there you have Vladimir Vaneev bringing out the element of thoughtfulness and mystery over a wider expressive range. The role of Grigory, the Pretender, brings alternative casting, too but it is only in the 1872 version that the character plays a full part, very well taken by the ringing and clean, very Russian-sounding tenor, Vladimir Galusin. The others make a first-rate team, individually strong and idiomatic, and all enhancing the drama, obviously experienced on stage. Oystanding are Olga Borodina as Marinam and Konstantin Pluzhnikov as a sinister Shuisky. The sound is fresh and forward, with voices set in front of the orchestra." The Penguin Guide
>>129152514I suppose my issue is I like my Bach/WTC's beautiful and spiritual over formally playful and musically inventive.
now playingstart of Dvorak: Concerto G minor Op. 33 B 63 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26Cci07Azv4&list=OLAK5uy_mNfNXdAyzj3GzLFAj4gSZdV7QjQDVMS2U&index=2start of Martinu: Piano Concerto No. 4 H 358 "Incantation"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj_xUzMRcOs&list=OLAK5uy_mNfNXdAyzj3GzLFAj4gSZdV7QjQDVMS2U&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mNfNXdAyzj3GzLFAj4gSZdV7QjQDVMS2UI didn't even know Martinu had piano concertos.
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB7XuXx6yGA&list=OLAK5uy_k7AbSaSxzH58tR0XodxaYi2FXocoUdbzA&index=20
>>129151440why?
Telemann's choral music is really good
>>129153144I like continuous change of note/pitch/volume bowed instruments provide. Piano lacks that being a percussion. I don't even dislike percussion as such, but it's just jarring to me in piano pieces. And also unavoidable in them. Hence not much love for a piano.
>>129151761>>129151920>>129152374>>129151967thank you imbecile
>>129153581Correct. A love of piano is a love of staccato and rhythmic motifs, not to say it cannot do the opposite at all, but it cannot compare to bows in regards to lyricism, melodicism, or song-like playing. Indeed, lacking vibrato alone would confirm all I said as irrefutable, but also of proper portamento and so on. Anyone who truly enjoys piano as an instrument will inevitably have to concede that its not made to emulate the human voice in any real sense, and is a second rate instrument when put to such means. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z9BG-hlYzA&list=PLLsr9s_7lqEGr8AZCc9WBqf3VNmTZsh2P&index=12
I listened to Mahler Symphony No. 6.>>129153894What other Mahler should I listen to?
>>129153898thank you imbecile
>>129153911All 9 and DLVDE chronologically.
>>129153964>>129153730thank you indian child
>>129153581Piano isn't even good percussion. The only piano I've heard that doesn't sound muddy is that extra-long one somebody on Youtube made.
>>129153991thank you imbecile
>tfw you listen to a symphony forthe first time and recall absolutely nothing about it
>>129153994>The only piano I've heard that doesn't sound muddyThis is because of cross woven strings and the massive tension with the steel frames. Modern pianos are complete garbage only used because of the greater projection. The Erard was a far superior style that is still close-ish to modern pianos in sound, but really the best piano was the forte piano that all the older composers were using; its immensely more clear and sounds infinitely better. Piano design peaked with Alkan's pedal piano. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDl-v_sD2uM
>>129154037Don't worry, it will continue that way even on your hundredth listen of Fagner's awful symphony.
>>129154039>>129154051thank you imbecile
>>129154004>>129154064thank you indian child
>>129154067thank you imbecile
>>129154037Pretty standard. Much of Bruckner's and Mahler's symphonies sounded like undifferentiated blobs of music until I started to understand their vision. Didn't help I had just gotten into classical too. Oh and the first time I listened to Beethoven's Missa Solemnis as my first choral work, that was a trip. Don't worry, over time you'll become a pro.
>>129154077thank you indian child
>>129154082thank you imbecile
>>129154103thank you indian child
>>129154122thank you imbecile
>>129154142thank you indian child
I'm glad I'm finally starting to enjoy opera, it's hundreds of hours of new music to explore, but the length of the works do not bode well for my musical ADHD. I can barely make it through an hour without wanting to change to something else, much less three-to-four hours! It is what it is I guess. Maybe it'll improve with time. Plus I better soon start reading the librettos to these works, gotta know what they're all about after all, nice as the music is.
>>129154149>I'm finally starting to enjoy operaMy condolences for your hearing loss and deteriorating mind in old age.
Not this shit again. When will this stop?
>>129154039Ideal piano would be the clarity of attack of this one combined with the sustain and purity of timbre of the Alexander piano:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyfz27bQ0OE
>>129154159I-I thought this was what patricians do?
>>129154147>>129154159thank you imbecile>>129154162Give it a 3-4 months, she will be gone just like the other schizo. You may take break until then.
>>129154162When norseposter (Rachanon as the one naive buffoon calls him) stops being mindbroken over sisterspammer and emulating him months after he left.
Chopin's Waltzes and Mazurkas: salon slop or high quality music?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8rIukPPFRs&list=OLAK5uy_k7AbSaSxzH58tR0XodxaYi2FXocoUdbzA&index=38
>>129154177thank you indian child
>>129154184thank you imbecile
>>129154191thank you imbecile
>>129154184>(Rachanon as the one naive buffoon calls him)I best not catch you on my block!
>>129154170Patrician is acknowledging that operaslop were the hollywood movies of their times, and ignoring that garbage till the day you die.
>>129154202>>129154192thank you indian child
>>129154210That's only a criticism against the plots and text, though. It's still music written by the same composers we all love in other forms.
>>129154220thank you imbecile
>>129154221>That's only a criticism against the plots and text,Incorrect. For the music is in service to the hollywood movies happening in front of you, destroying any real form. And worst of all are the long sections of back and forth singing to get through dialog, its unbearable unless sat in front of the theater itself.
>>129154203If he keeps going with the spam I'll post you his favorite metal music, maybe the low-fi nature of that is what draws him to HISS kek. It will even explain why he likes Chopin so much.
Monteverdihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIjkhxAtm00&list=OLAK5uy_nLLAVKt7u9Q56ku_Z86Ac6vxOry32yVgE&index=2
>>129154251thank you indian child
>>129154281The RachAnon does not listen to or like metal, stop spreading such lies. I won't respond to you after this, goodbye, slanderer.
>>129154297>MonteverdiListening!
>>129154184why would use a presumably cross-general nickname for him in /classical/, tourist?
/metal/ here, we apologize for the tremendous failure of a creature that is h*ctor. He got bullied and chased away by every community he's ever been in. Posts like these >>129153898 are his (meaningless hysterical essays).
>>129151939bohm >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> karajan
>>129154346Because thats who he is to me. We like that guy here, although he was better before coming into contact with sisterspammer, now he has a bit of a bot-like fashion to him that I don't enjoy. He lost his will to be articulate, thinking that acting dismissive is valid behavior. Oh well, I'm sure we were all better people before coming on 4cuck.org.
>>129152374the more I find out about Mendelssohn, Alkan and Schoenberg, the more antisemitic I become. These people are clearly embittered and just lashing out at gentiles.Does anyone have similar stuff to post about Mahler? Was Mahler a truly assimilated Jew, or was he like these others?I've yet to see an example of a truly assimilated Jew. One wonders whether emancipation was the right move.
>>129154470What possible problem could you (could anyone?) have with Mendelssohn
>>129154470Mahler, Mendelssohn and Offenbach are the only jews in the proper classical canon. The others are less relevant. Seems like you just have issues with bigotry.
Verdihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L_LZvTkZ8I&list=OLAK5uy_koHe3FZgWsv0lp9CdGifIv6hVk4oHzpcg&index=5
>>129154166>Alexander piano:Had no idea this existed, very interesting, those low notes are really rich and deep. >the clarity of attack of this one combined with the sustainIts actually partially the sustain that hurts the clarity, 9n the massive steel frame ultra tense grand pianos the strings actually "swell" in sound before decaying, and that is partially responsible for the muddiness of the modern instrument. On the flip side its why harpsicords are never muddy.
>>129154470Thank you for the copypaste from the archives.
I just don't know what symphonies to listen to anymore
>>129154604honegger
>>129154616Yo, my nigger what is it?
now playingstart of Hamerik: Symphony No. 2 in C Minor, Op. 32, "Tragique"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSXV692a47M&list=OLAK5uy_mKgZe7BjTBOeH1L1JcWr1YnLWNyJClcpk&index=6start of Hamerik: Symphony No. 3 in E Major, Op. 33, "Lyrique"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rbIzBxBScE&list=OLAK5uy_mKgZe7BjTBOeH1L1JcWr1YnLWNyJClcpk&index=10start of Hamerik: Symphony No. 4 in C Major, Op. 35, "Majestueuse"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVNgH5D4wX4&list=OLAK5uy_mKgZe7BjTBOeH1L1JcWr1YnLWNyJClcpk&index=13Some quality post-romanticism slop. All of the symphonies have names/titles so you know they're good.>>129154616Good shout, I'll save that for tonight.
>>129154646kek
>rondo in d major:/>rondo in a minor:D
>>129154754Help me Rondo
Wagnerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6XWYFTHOto&list=OLAK5uy_npKZGqIVFo-i5BgSF5aXqz8IaoN70sY8U&index=12
Got to hear Jordi Savall live doing his 4 Seasons interpretation.Nice to have something worn down like Quattro Stagioni played with soul and thoughtfulness.
>>129152699Fun pieces.>>129155004Very cool. What was the cost? And how long did the show last?
>>129155033about $135 for a top notch box seat, 2 hours with a 25 minute breakit was all Vivaldi pieces, in the second half they gave Four Seasons
>>129155033and I got to shake hands and talk to the soloist
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PqSsMW9-sE
>>129155808>RegerListening!>four handsUltra listening!
>>129155004fuck off, faggot. this thread is not your blog.
best recording for each Mahler symphony?
>>129157221consult Dave.
>>129157232>recs Bernstein for most symphoniesno thanks!
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWVZeX1Y_9w
>>129157465my favourite piece
>>129153030That's alright anon, like I said his WTC isn't among my favorite recordings either, I was just pointing out that it's a unique interpretation. Personally I think Bach/Gould peaks with the AoF, Partitas (6 especially) and concerti.https://youtu.be/WDzEAqd7RWQ?si=8fJ22dHgV7ZmR2A8Easily one of my favorite recordings of all time.
>>129157221start with the Abbado or Bertini cycle
Verdi's operas, so far, don't sound at all what I thought. I thought they'd be more like his Requiem. A bit disappointing.
>>129154399>thinking that acting dismissive is valid behavior.Says the twat thinking dishonesty, hypocrisy and concern trolling are valid behaviors. You can't really think or have any original thoughts of your own, as a response you inadequately act in opposition to everything you see, desperately trying to maintain this "unique" persona and get a reaction out of it. Hungry for individuality instead of anything meaningful. You will deny this, further reaffirming your dishonesty, yet I'm not even the only one who noticed. In all sincerity, an AI is substantially more intelligent and reasonable. You have never been honest or reasonable in this general except the first few threads. So please, leave at once like sistershitter did and spare us of the spam beforehand.
>>129158080damn, get 'em, RachAnon
>>129157652That one is really nice.>AoFI'm stayed away from it because, call me silly if you wish, I avoid excerpt/selection recordings. But on your rec I'll finally check it out, thanks.
dear god the first hour of parsifal is boring, it's just some guy talking
>>129158151This was my reaction as well. Parsifal wasn't his good moment. Yet some Wagnerians will insist it's his best.
confession: I'm pretty sure the sole reason I've always preferred Bach's French Suites to his English Suites is because it has "French" in the name instead of "English"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUwX46-xZQg&list=OLAK5uy_lhgb-xJuTeMu9pGQrqFRDZ2uLULLVuRcM&index=4
>>129158214Based. The Fr*nch are more tolerable the the E*glish. He should'be just named them German Suites to avoid this awkward situation.
Kinda surprising no one ever composed a Russian Suite or an American Suite (for piano, not Dvorak's wonderful orchestral piece)
>>129158169his most entertaining operas are probably Meistersinger, Siegfried, and The Flying Dutchman. Parsifal is more like a religious ceremony.
>>129158403>The Flying DutchmanThat's a real opera? I thought that was just from Spongebob.
>>129158427>That's a real opera?arrr it be as real as my eyepatch, landlubber.
>>129158458:p
>These performances raise a serious question about Gould’s desire to remove part of the interpreting artist’s conscious personality from music-making. Gould was only 23 when these sonatas were recorded, but his desire to eliminate any sense of spirituality from these works sounds decidedly conscious. He does not succeed! Beethoven’s last three piano sonatas and the Diabelli Variations are the most profound, sublime music ever written for the piano and even in Gould’s hands their transcendental greatness still shines through.ouch
>>129158080>Says the twat thinking dishonesty, hypocrisy and concern trollingFirst of all norseposter, I know you are ESL, but please do learn what "concern trolling" means. With that out of the way, I wouldn't be so quick to throw stones in a glass house. Afterall, you only started throwing out the "dishonesty" accusation after I quoted your own thoughts about Bach last thread, in that thread where you probably wished to pretend like that post was someone else's. "Most of Bach is audibly lowbrow, as there is nothing more vulgar and plebian than the church. Goldberg Variations and Art of Fugue however, are aristocratic.", yet you'll turn around and argue over Bach's intentions for a keyboard concerto, despite thinking his music is a bunch of lowbrow church garbage anyways. We ought not to mention your own lowbrow personal musical fascinations outside of classical, ones you clearly still hold onto in some regard, for we know what threads you browse.Indeed in the case of wanting to maintain a "unique" persona, isn't it more the case that you run around here incessantly repeating that Chopin and Rach are better than all else, even Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, Bach, and Wagner? Or making inflammatory statements on purpose about Shubert being the beginning of good music? Intentionally starting debates on religion and atheism? In-fact, you seem to be the only named poster around here now, not even I have one.And lastly we do find the final request to spare "us" of the spam "similar to sisterposter" to be most ironic, for the only person left spamming in the same way is yourself, I never found him to be a character worth emulating, but you however clearly are very fond of his spam. Personally I can't understand why you idolize such a boring individual, but then again, I also didn't sit around here 16 hours a day typing "thank you schizosister" to him and having him respond "thank you indian child" in an endless botspam loop like you.
>>129158658>Concern trolling: the action or practice of disingenuously expressing concern about an issue in order to undermine or derail genuine discussion.No need to make yet another dishonest comment on this.>Afterall, you only started throwing out the "dishonesty" accusationWhen it was long past due. You always keep shifting goalposts or simply being obtuse only to disagree, it has nothing to do some throwaway comment you misinterpret and keep bringing up as if relevant (definiton of dishonesty, or could be just stupidity, up to you). You also very clearly lack knowledge of this music and its history, but insist on ideas so absurd that everyone but me would simply ignore. This insistance is tied to your boring, petty persona. >We ought not to mention your own lowbrow personal musical fascinations outside of classical,Yet another dishonest statement. And also, that would be you.The rest of your post is just more dishonesty. Out of context, reality redefining verbal diarrhea. A very personal attribute of yours. You both spam threads (this very thread in fact, and multiple previous threads) due to your restless "persona", and being an embarrassing newfag.
>>129141453>>129151504>How's Boulez's Wagner/The Ring cycle?Extremely well conducted, but marred by a mediocre Brunnhilde and Siegfried. If you can deal with them, it's a nice cycle. I think the Rheingold is one of the better stereo ones. The Walkure is pretty good. The rest depends on how you feel about Jung and Jones.>>129141752Karajan was very insistent on leaning into Wagner's emphasis on diction in his cycle, so much of the singing on his recording comes across as smaller and conversational. Which is really how much of the older golden age singers used to sing Wagner. >>129149954Heger/Lorenz/Buchner and Bohm/Windgassen/Nilsson are so far away my favorites, that I don't really feel the need to listen to anything else anymore. There are other worthy recordings, but those two just do it for me that leaves me completely satisfied.>>129151815Why subject yourself to garbage singing? >>129158070Listen to Otello.
>>129158880>Listen to Otello.do I have to read the Shakespeare first?
>>129158893Nah.
>>129158880Thanks
new>>129158941>>129158941>>129158941
the Vagner meme
