Brahms editionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb3ZdLTlFVwThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>129178856
reposting Fazil SayScarlattihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t79b8pdUWbs&list=OLAK5uy_l0grdhGXO5OV-kvpWZW36zyEvlQjhKqaM&index=3Satiehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD6pOlTBsRY&list=OLAK5uy_kYK50tYNh08W32wJ0YxPtCmQr11NjlcC4&index=17Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAfEuNxcxkE&list=OLAK5uy_l5nG_zLgkY0tv9Evap2NBBo0I84w4klq8&index=10Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PuaB1IokYQ&list=OLAK5uy_kPO5ECdxpfm__f_p88UKh2exRW-eC6Xjw&index=5Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sahDL6m6fBc&list=OLAK5uy_l0grdhGXO5OV-kvpWZW36zyEvlQjhKqaM&index=7Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP2-lX9BfHo&list=OLAK5uy_leivrAoqWaA5D9TQ6OfHBP_c7v6Li-FcA&index=33something for all
Best conductor for each Beethoven symphony?
>>129194170Karajan of course.
Fuck Mozart and Fuck RomanticismThat's a quote
>>129194170Again, anon, it depends how you like it performed. There's no objective 'best', the entire point of having different recordings is the distinct interpretations each offers.That said, if you just want one cycle and be done with it because you're lazy, then go with Karajan. But maybe you'd like that new Chailly cycle. Or if that's too new-school for you, then Blomstedt. If you want full on Germanic traditional, then Barenboim or Wand.
>>129194170Furtwangler of course.
Mahler took his vegetarianism very seriously, as was witnessed by the citizens of the city of Olmütz where he took up a conducting appointment in 1883. “At the inn where the singers met in the evening,” so a local report, “Mahler invited ridicule by drinking water instead of wine or beer. Refusing meat, he asked for spinach and apples, and loudly declared his allegiance to Richard Wagner’s vegetarian principles, throwing in a plea for woolen underwear for good measure.”
>>129194291This reminds me of Nietzsche eating several pounds of fruit per day.
>>129194170Scherchen
>>129194291Stepping into the footsteps of his idol Richard Wagner, Gustav Mahler wrote to a friend in 1880.“For the last month, I have been a total vegetarian. The moral effect of this way of life, with its voluntary castigation of the body, is enormous. I expect nothing less than the regeneration of mankind. I advise you to eat suitable food (compost-grown, stone-ground, whole-meal bread) and you will soon see the fruit of your endeavors.”
>>129194170Leibowitz
confession: I've never listened to Beethoven 1, 2, or 4, nor Bruckner 1 or 2, and I don't intend to
>>129194331>>129194291ULTRABASED. Although Fagner was never actually vegetarian, he only promoted it, because he was nothing but a walking joke in all aspects of life.Regardless, no one can be of any intelligence in the modern era of scientific study would still be eating meat based on available data. Not that you should need that, Plato should have already been the guide you needed for such a thing.
>>129194186Cringe>>129194203>>129194328>>129194423Based
Beethovenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWGQVlCByF4&list=OLAK5uy_lVEQhU8VxnNa_EgNPnzLqo9wyjF0uz-TQ&index=45
Imagine listening to BETAhoven. Couldn't be me!
Going through Prok's sonatas, hes one of the few besides Feinberg and Scriabin that really put a solid effort in the form post-Beethoven, well, besides the "high priest guarding the sacred flame" aka Medtner. The cadenza in Prok's second concerto has always been such a highlight to me, to the point that while I intensely dislike some of his really biting irony, I'll still come back searching his music again. I wish I could just have that second concerto cadenza as a composer, take away the neoclassical carnival melodies and random banging in Prok and he could have been perfection to me. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igem7lFlU4o&list=OLAK5uy_mdxqwRXCOvoTfnnop-cUQobjvFTpmpqOI&index=6
For today's opera performance, we listen to Gluck's Orfeo ed Euridice conducted by Sir Georg Solti.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWKr6a376SY&list=OLAK5uy_n_VSZH3fkFdxqRVpixEcvXmtMbK5RlJiY&index=14
>>129194586Yeah, Prokofiev's piano sonatas are fantastic, as good as solo piano music in the 20th century gets.
I can't believe big opera killed this guy and deleted his channel and then planted an imposter pretending to be to him make him look crazy and then someone else had to reupload all the videos. I wouldn't be surprised if Yannick Nézet-Séguin personally ordered the hit.
>>129194702Sounds like a conspiracy fit for its own opera
>>129194606>as good as solo piano music in the 20th century gets.Cant say I agree with that, I mean I know M gets flack for lacking "tunes" because everything is so dense, but does Prok's 4th even have a single memorable moment in it despite not being nearly as dense? The best you could offer in that is the final movement where he - as always - offers a melody, but ruined through ironic mockery. I always felt like Prok really only got during the war sonatas, but maybe I need more time with the rest. That being said, usually stuff that needs a lot of time to digest is really thick like Godowsky's sonata, while Prok is a much more concise.
>>129194598Listening to this, and comparing it to stuff like Haydn's The Creation and The Seasons, Bach's Passions, and Handel's anything, it's interesting to see how the line between sacred choral, oratorios, and opera were very blurred at this time.
>>129194170Not Karajan, he's incapable of drama and therefore Beethoven. Szell or Blomstedt are fine places to start as cycles go. Markevitch or Kleiber in the 5th. Walter in the 6th, Schuricht in the 9th, Monteux in the 3rd. Gielen if you want to hear Beethoven at his own tempo markings.
>>129194170>>129194846Oh, yes, and Markevitch is great in the 8th as well.
Just listened to tchaikovsky's 5th symphony for the first time it was pretty good.
>>129194899tru, these works arent famous for nothin'
Bellinihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-qd38zmozs&list=OLAK5uy_leU936M_3MdgGH6LJIb9VVV5EF_nsZJmM&index=33At this point, I'll listen to anything conducted by James Levine.
>>129194170Mengelberg
>>129194078https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante
Hurwitz says the fourth symphony is a formal improvement over the Eroica.
>>129194965>I'll listen to anything conducted by James Levine.But he's such a bad conductor...
>>129195172>top-tier Mozart>top-tier Brahms>top-tier Schumann>top-tier Mahler>top-tier Wagner>top-tier Gershwin>top-tier Smetana>top-tier Holst>top-tier opera conductor in general including Verdi, Puccini, Schoenberg, Rossini, Mozart, and moreget your head out of your ass and get real
>By the time Levine got that job, “stories about James Levine” had been universally known about in the music business for more than 20 years. There were entire countries where he was reportedly not allowed to travel, and others where he could not be in a room with minors under any circumstances (including a children’s choir in a concert hall).shiieethttps://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2021/03/18/james-levine/
>>129195214The only thing he's good at is opera desu
>>129195341Of which he has like 50 recordings from various composers
>>129195277it's dey culture you bigot.
For tonight's opera performance, we listen Richard Strauss' Ariadne auf Naxos (is this where the label Naxos got their name from?) conducted by James Levine and performed by the Vienna Philharmonic.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9PzcUsZpM&list=OLAK5uy_mNraNpAqV_M-jMeDR3iqv_J5jIcvoEtic&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24N0htaInb8&list=OLAK5uy_mNraNpAqV_M-jMeDR3iqv_J5jIcvoEtic&index=12
>>129195376forgive me, for I am but a humble goy who prefers to sleep with women
>>129195395I need more gibs.
>>129195415You ruined the funny, anon. I appreciate you trying to contribute.
>>129195427do you know what else is funny?Judeo-Christian values.
>>129195446Here's my rebuttalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCYi8ITf6C0
Tchaikovsky's Hymn of the Cherubim is a perfect collection of notes.
What do you opera fans think of Britten's Peter Grimes?
>girl comes over>after talking for a bit, we start making out>her: hey, put on some music :)>me: *puts on Wagner's Tristan und Isolde (Furtwangler recording)*>her after a couple minutes: i gotta be up early in the morning, byedamn
>>129195859I don't know. what did the police think of the videos they found on your computer?
>>129195945...what, the Figaro bluray? I don't think they cared.
>>129195987did they find your rape dungeon?
now playingstart of Mozart: Piano Sonata No. 11 in A Major, K. 331 "Alla turca"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igq6XuQa-Zw&list=OLAK5uy_n068Dytg3SCvPk9TtQh8NUcYTQ6UnKrW8&index=2start of Mozart: Piano Sonata No. 8 in A Minor, K. 310https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9zaYADHt5I&list=OLAK5uy_n068Dytg3SCvPk9TtQh8NUcYTQ6UnKrW8&index=1Mozart: Fantasia No. 4 in C Minor, K. 475https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyGthCHGPh4&list=OLAK5uy_n068Dytg3SCvPk9TtQh8NUcYTQ6UnKrW8&index=1start of Mozart: Piano Sonata No. 14 in C Minor, K. 457https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0loGo-40YY&list=OLAK5uy_n068Dytg3SCvPk9TtQh8NUcYTQ6UnKrW8&index=14https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n068Dytg3SCvPk9TtQh8NUcYTQ6UnKrW8>Yundi, the world-renowned pianist, is ready once again to enthral audiences with his exceptional musical talent. As the first Chinese and youngest pianist in history to win the International Chopin Piano Competition, he has been at the forefront of classical piano art in China for over 25 years, continuing to explore the beauty of music with unflagging passion. Recorded at the Great Hall of the Salzburg Mozarteum in November 2023, the album takes listeners on a journey through Mozart's musical landscapes, a realm of music closest to Yundi's heart. Titled "Mozart: The Sonata Project - Salzburg", the album features several of Mozart's most cherished piano sonatas, including Sonata K.310, K.331 ("Alla Turca"), Fantasia K.475, and Sonata K.457. Returning to the roots of his musical inspiration, he was captivated by Mozart already at the age of 7.>>129194055not the Mahoposter, but try Perlman/Barenboim
>>129194439Mahler eventually gave up the vegetarian diet too.
Bach and Before, Ives and AfterA little bit of Grieg, Russian 5, and Chabrier, with a dash of Franck and Late LisztAnd you get a patrician concoction of platonically moral music that soothes the soul and puts the passions at rest and the spirit in balance
>>129196058I gues the shitapple doesn't fall far from the shittree. All of the B.M.W. trio share in equal embarrassment to music and character.
Which gaming composers steal from the usual names?
>>129196641https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOLvQ_K98kghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVvl4U2wVF4pretty blatant
>>129196665nothing of value was plagiarized.
>>129196665>Mother 3 is a Stalinist fan ficI KNEW IT
incredible how perfect orpheus is
Why did music become so dumbed down after Ars subtilior
>>129197089Ars subtilitor was probably the exception, not the rule, but all those troubadour songs were lost so we can't really tell what was going oneven today if you want to hear music distilled from centuries of gypsy craftsmanship you have to listen in to a party where only gypsy musicians are present and play for/among themselveseven risking a slight self-contradiction, I'd say that popular music is a scam
>>129195214LMFAO
>>129195166Kraut-anon what do you think of that course anon posted earlier:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPHC9Zf9s04&list=PLSntcNF64SVW2hG6S7j78_cXg_13ZWN0qIs it any good?
Franz Schrekerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIOrHRU_L30&list=OLAK5uy_nntRKll8QxiijHcUbOg0IgUi2NmmPGweo&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RV54T7kI8g0&list=OLAK5uy_nntRKll8QxiijHcUbOg0IgUi2NmmPGweo&index=10>The title means "The Marked," as in "stigmatized." This luscious late-Romantic extravaganza is so beautiful, and the plot so silly, that listening to it is like having one of those dreams where you remember how wonderful it was, though it made no sense at all upon waking. Carlotta is a painter in love with the wealthy but deformed Alviano. She loves his "soul"--that is because she has a heart condition that prevents her from experiencing, um, the physical side of things. Tamare, who has a crush on Carlotta and who's been running around kidnapping and raping young women in his spare time, finally abducts Carlotta and shows her what she's been missing. Not only does she love it, but before she dies she reviles Alviano for his ugliness, so he promptly goes insane. There's more, but telling you wouldn't help. Just try it. --David Hurwitzwtf what was Schreker's problem
>>129197210There are a few medieval songs whose melodies have survived, though we don't really know what the accompaniment (if any) would have sounded like.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WtZ4LzGONY
Wagnerhttps://youtu.be/H3h-GMckz_s
>>129197031Liszt's?
>>129197383Belkin is not very bright but I guess his course is adequate for an undergraduate course in composition these days. frankly, musical academia is fucked and the problem will only be improved by making high achievement in physics and mathematics a prerequisite to studying composition.
>>129197729Isn't the original quote 'ignorant of geometry'?
>>129197785I think the original quote said "mathematics and geometry" but it's close enough.
>>129197729>his course is adequate for an undergraduate course in composition these days.So you'd still recommend Cherubini?>high achievement in physics and mathematics a prerequisite to studying composition.We would have no composers kek.
>>129197671strabinsky :DD
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-CyQXtO7Zw
watching hollywood slop on mute while listening to classical :)
>>129197875Very nice piece.
>>129197858>So you'd still recommend Cherubini?yes and after him you should read Jeppesen.
>>129197913Gianopolous' channel has a lot of hidden gems. you should really check it out.
>>129197899What's the point
>>129197942I find listening to music on its own difficult for long periods of time. When watching or reading something, I can listen for hours :)Plus they added a bunch of Bond movies I've never seen before to Netflix, so this way I get to multitask.
>>129197967every Bond film after Skyfall has been utter crap.
>>129197967Turning music into a commodity isn't a good thing, whatever your reasons for it may be.
>>129197975I said it was slop, and is why I'm primarily focused on the music.>>129197978The film is the commodity -- the commodity that lets me focus on the art. It's the equivalent of walking/running or doing dishes when listening to music. In my view, anyway. What can I say, I'm not the type to put on classical and stare at a wall for 40 minutes.
>>129197975At least the girl in this one is a stunner (so far) (No Time to Die). How many have there even been since Skyfall?
>>129198013too many.
Schutzhttps://youtu.be/eOMiSAB8sAc
>>129198040Hence watching it on mute
[soft operatic music plays]
>>129197916If you were to start a student who knew nothing about anything, where would you have them begin?
>>129193768What does this "Dave" have to say about the Boulez/Wiener Mahler 6th?
>>129198220He doesn't appear to have a review of it. He does rate the Boulez Mahler 4 a 9;10 though. Anyway, here's what Duggen has to say about it>Also on the right lines is Pierre Boulez with the Vienna Philharmonic on DG (445 835-2) who also manages to fit the work on to one disc but this time with the first movement repeat. This is a very refined performance indeed, one that fulfils all the criteria of classically-contained drama I prefer but, in the final analysis, one that marginally fails to deliver a lasting impression. On its own I admire it greatly. In comparison, I find myself with some doubts, wishing I was listening to others. But I draw it to your attention, not least for the excellent playing of the Vienna Philharmonic and the opportunity to hear Boulez’s view of this crucial work in twentieth century music.https://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler6.htm
>>129198242>very refined performanceA bad thing. This kind of music needs a more vigorous performance. Where are the loud banging noises? But I do like the faster tempo.Also, I really should have anticipated the fucked-up stereo image, because it says "4D audio recording" on the cover. I expected better from Deutsche Grammophon.
>>129198263Depends how you like your Mahler I suppose. Anyway, try some of the other recommended recordings on Duggen's page, only add Bernstein/Vienna (AND Bernstein/NYP, I know at least one anon here said they preferred that version, and it's pretty similar).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2y5Ntys6gUThis is the one that's the consensus best here.
>>129198263>wants vigorous+fastsounds like you would like...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZDmQbDfF6UThis one is too rugged for me these days (yes I prefer my Mahler cleaner now) but I loved it for a while, and it's an essential cycle for anyone.
>>129198211after covering the basics like learning how to sight read, etc. I spent a year doing exercises in double counterpoint at the octave, so that is probably what I would recommend.as a beginner it is very important to practice techniques that will improve your ear, memory, and instincts.
>>129198297Since when is sight reading basic? It's like a rare talent or a result of extremely hard work.
>>129197858We would have only composers who graduated from university of Indiana
now playingstart of Dvorak: Violin Concerto in A Minor, Op. 53, B. 108https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNU4V4WmdQ4&list=OLAK5uy_kQwL0hBNMPUDU_tgIkBGYsegspyB2lTAk&index=2start of Schumann: Piano Quintet in A Major, Op. 81, B. 155https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uifKnn3DHnU&list=OLAK5uy_kQwL0hBNMPUDU_tgIkBGYsegspyB2lTAk&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kQwL0hBNMPUDU_tgIkBGYsegspyB2lTAk
>>129198529lol, sorry anon. sometimes I forget I was born in a crab bucket.>>129198530I know a teacher from Indiana. It's a small world.
For today's opera performance, we listen to Wagner's Tannhauser conducted by Haitink.openinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQEgvsLzZlk&list=OLAK5uy_mW3cvmlOBi9wgPju6c7P9In4AMb8mifZI&index=2random vocal movementhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNoiEBPu238&list=OLAK5uy_mW3cvmlOBi9wgPju6c7P9In4AMb8mifZI&index=1review comparing some recordingshttps://www.musicweb-international.com/classrev/2011/Jan11/Wagner_Tannhauser_6408002.htm
lucia POPP
Thoughts on Plácido Domingo?
>>129194606>as good as solo piano music in the 20th century getsBirdman takes this one, sorry.
Favourite Mahler symphony?
>>129198641To be fair, my wording doesn't proclaim Prokofiev as "the best" but rather some of his works, eg the 8th Piano Sonata, reaches those same heights.
>>129198656Fair enough.
>>129198651>Favourite Mahler symphony?Whichever one I'm currently listening to.But if you're asking which is his best, it's his 9th, followed by his 6th and 8th.
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 4 in E-Flat Major, Op. 7https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRD72P0XjlE&list=OLAK5uy_leivrAoqWaA5D9TQ6OfHBP_c7v6Li-FcA&index=14start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 5 in C Minor, Op. 10 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haqGaTVmyWs&list=OLAK5uy_leivrAoqWaA5D9TQ6OfHBP_c7v6Li-FcA&index=18start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 6 in F Major, Op. 10 No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa4tCxMNpTo&list=OLAK5uy_leivrAoqWaA5D9TQ6OfHBP_c7v6Li-FcA&index=21start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 7 in D Major, Op. 10 No. 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nuqWMTZKeY&list=OLAK5uy_leivrAoqWaA5D9TQ6OfHBP_c7v6Li-FcA&index=23https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_leivrAoqWaA5D9TQ6OfHBP_c7v6Li-FcAThis cycle easily ranks in my top ten of all-time, and certainly one of perhaps two or three best released in the 21st century.
>>129197510thanks for the nice song, although I thought we were specifically referring to the French (where "ars subtilitor" was a thing), as Minnesang was a high class affair where music didn't count for much, mostly because they had separate court musicians "for that" (similar to English minstrels)... meanwhile for the French it was a low-class affair similar to what we came to call "parlor music" in the 19th century (which then evolved into gospel & blues & pop)
>>129198529You know, back in the day improvisation used to be considered a basic skill too. O tempora, o mores!
Sometimes I think about trying to get into early sacred choral music, but then I see the mountain of composers I've never heard of and the subsequent countless recordings of their works, discovering it's truly an entire world of music unto itself, and I become anxious and give up.
>>129198716everybody seems to forget that back in the days you only had N organs and one of those string-pianos cost the same as a housetoday only black and gay people seem to realize that you don't have to be a masochist to explore music in your own bedroom
>>129198739>today only black and gay people seem to realize that you don't have to be a masochist to explore music in your own bedroombedroom pop and electronic, he-LLO
>>129198745well, if that's where their explorations lead them to, it's their business, not yoursdungeon synth is obviously closer to classical (drawing on its metal roots) but hasn't yet coagulated into something real and maybe can't as long as smartphones are still a thing
>>129198585>I was born in a crab bucket.Huh? What do you mean?
Just found out there's a 1963 tv movie of Die Frau ohne Schatten with Jess Thomas, Martha Modl, Fritz Wunderlich, Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau and conducted by Keilberth.Why on earth don't people talk about all these old opera films? There's so many of them and their effortlessly superior to any modern performances.
>>129198868Because these aren't great singers nor conductor.
>>129198898>modl and keilberth>not great singer or conductorDon't talk about things you know nothing about.
>>129198868No idea but I should check some out. I've been meaning to start downloading and watching recorded operas anyway, it didn't occur to me to try some film adaptations too.>>129198898>aren't great singers>Wunderlichbait is supposed to be believable
>>129198912>>129198942Meh.
The fact that we don't have a Wunderlich Winterreise is one of the greatest tragedies in classical music.
now playingstart of Delius: Sea Drifthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EETtnO0z0I&list=OLAK5uy_nMjYyLOpwZJfQmE6B93rqL3ZvxwuSbJ3c&index=2start of Elgar: The Dream of Gerontius, Op. 38 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1V-DzdbLqI&list=OLAK5uy_nMjYyLOpwZJfQmE6B93rqL3ZvxwuSbJ3c&index=6Holst: The Hymn of Jesus, Op. 37https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yt-_CQo2BJw&list=OLAK5uy_nMjYyLOpwZJfQmE6B93rqL3ZvxwuSbJ3c&index=18https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nMjYyLOpwZJfQmE6B93rqL3ZvxwuSbJ3cNice program/tracklist. Gonna finally go through Elgar's choral music, both large-scale and otherwise. Hopefully I picked a good recording for this one. Also, stealing this from an except on a different recording of this work because I really liked it,>One of Elgar's greatest works, The Dream of Gerontius is his setting of Cardinal Newman's poem about a dying man's journey from his deathbed to his judgment before God and his placement in Purgatory. The work is not a traditional oratorio; instead, it is a hauntingly beautiful and transformative journey of the soul. Elgar himself said of it, "I've written it out of my insidest inside."Well said. Reminds me of the famous Beethoven quote regarding his Missa Solemnis,>"From the heart – may it return to the heart!"
>Charles Rosen uses the first movement of Schumann's Fantasie, Op. 17 to portray ‘the death of the classical style’ and op. 11 to illustrate inadequacies of sonata form after Beethoven
Igor Levit's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvo7uUpgMZE&list=OLAK5uy_k9zkiCHsoGl3LbAIJSvZp5CGUAVfEnqdU&index=17
speaking of Charles Rosen, how's his Chopin 4th Ballade?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tS6C_oL0cg&list=OLAK5uy_lGw6MX02VlxKeNOsZra7vvHDWyUfj-gSs&index=1>>129199084First part makes sense, second not really, but I guess I haven't listened to Op. 11 much because it's not particularly great, especially compared to the far superior Op. 22.
>>129199084>first movement of Schumann's Fantasie, Op. 17 to portray ‘the death of the classical style’When in reality it was the peak of the sonata form, unchained from its roots of rigidity and infused with the mind of the greatest genius of Austro-German music (excluding Mahler). Music reached its intellectual and emotional peak with op.17 and almost never reached the same height ever since. What Schumann actually demonstrated are the inadequacies of Beethoven and composers before him, who could not bend sonata to their will as much as Schumann did.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjw6aTXXoZA
Philip GlassComposer, performer.Underrated: Rossini. He is a composer whose importance has never been fully appreciated. I find his music full of wit, inventiveness, expressivity and style.Overrated: Franz Liszt. It's plain that in his day he must have been a musician of enormous importance. By contrast, his music offers surprisingly little of interest. I find it vague, incoherent and barely listenable.
>>129199244>peak of sonata = not even a real sonata, just empty empty theatrical gestures in utterly poor formLol.Lmao. Just another romanticlown moment.
>>129199261>peak of sonata = not even a real sonataWe were talking about real sonata.
>>129199283In your wild romanticlown fantasies where form has no meaning and was utterly destroyed by emotional nothings, probably.
goddamn Monteverdi wrote a ton of madrigals. Anyone listen to all of them? I might embark on the endeavor. Here are the two most popular setsLa Venexianahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGM8bAwgyXA&list=OLAK5uy_nMJZWM5o75pd9dMgj__7LUEQ4ii8sFtrw&index=14Delitiæ Musicæ (which if I'm not mistaken, this set is male-voices only)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSedl-kaavk&list=OLAK5uy_k0MymVCKKve2lxcLfwlHsTmb9gPpZF2cE&index=16Now for my own tastes, of course I'm gonna go with the set with female singers in the ensemble. In any case, there's like 9 books of this stuff. Fun fun!
>>129199309Maybe on the deaf or opposite days.
>>129199326has been a while since i listened but they're generally fantastic.
>>129199341Did you listen to one of those two sets or is there another you recommend?
>>129199329That must be the days where anyone has ever called op. 17 a true sonata instead of a barely coherent pile of whimsical slop, that if you squint as hard as you can might vaguely in some manner partially resemble a sonata if you were also drunk, high, and trying your hardest to find any coherent to the 30 minutes you just wasted on garbage.
what should i listen to if i like classical music but i can't stand the way the instruments sound that are used(horns, strings, etc). is there a composer for me out there?
>>129199364>Liszt was one of the few pianists capable of meeting the then-unparalleled demands of the Fantasie, particularly the second movement coda's rapid skips in opposite directions simultaneously. He had played the piece to Schumann privately, and later incorporated it into his teaching repertory, but he considered it unsuitable for public performance and never played it in public.Don't worry, it's unsuitable for the lowbrow, as per Beethoven's heir himself.
>>129199375Nothing you wrote there has any signifier of worth, being virtuososlop has no bearing on form or coherence. Nor would anyone call Liszt "Beethoven's heir" when his main compositions were miniatures, songs, etudes, and transcriptions. Liszt's only sonata was another romanticlown exercise in poor form, because he couldn't actually match the compositional talent of Alkan despite wanting to have his own "Grande Sonata".
>>129198868>Why on earth don't people talk about all these old opera filmsit's easy to get burned out on them, as opposed to seeing a movie or listening to (just) the recordinghalf the fun of opera, just like with theatre, is actually being there and experiencing it liveat least that's my opinion, although I haven't been to the opera or theater for more than a decade lol... used to be fun, if you were a student they let you in for free after the show started and there were free spaces
>>129199430>t.smelly lowbrow with nothing of substance to speak
>>129199351>is there another you recommend?Alessandrini
>>129199373Yeah. >>>/mu/
>>129199373Perotin
>>129199474Ironic post.
>>129199560Not really.
Stravinskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIAn2c46XOs&list=OLAK5uy_mpmtPopJRy__JTSwK9YO8OvLIyk54y5tg&index=1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WbUo2HzV6cStill unsurpassed in melancholy.
>>129199672For lieder? Maybe. But there's Beethoven's slow movements of 106, 109, Schubert's D960, 958, Chopin's 3rd. If we go further D887, 929 and much, much more.Also, I just ranomly wondered what was between Beethoven's 106 and 109, it's 25 Scottish songs, what a pleasant surprise. The second song was lovely.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk_1gGTFXtE
Scriabin. Not only a great writer of sonatas, but the most divine miniaturist.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iN8v-XsxiJE
>>129200131Crap.
>>129200131i was enthusiastic when i found out about him and the fact that he was inspired by birds and made all kinds of stuff from birdsong, kind of like a pre-modernist bartoki was disappointed when i listened to him and realized that those birds were in his head...
>>129200314Whoops meant to reply to >>129197538
What if CPE gave bad teaching advice to throw off the competition
>>129200478You mean that thing about species counterpoint? kekJust study whatever you like.
>>129200548No I mean about chorales
>>129199244Bobby Schumann should've stayed hyper romantic instead of turning into conservative classicuck. He was ahead of the game.
>>129200478Also I think JS did it too by teaching thorough-bass, so it runs in the family
>>129197803>>129197785It was the same thing back then
>>129200598Schumann had the decency to realize romantislop was only going to lead to a total dead end that would kill classical (like it did), and decided to make real music instead.
>>129200598It was mostly due to his injury I presume. But op.17 remains as humanity's greatest achievement in solo piano music, of unrestricted imagination and utmost creative artistic expression. Besides, he stayed ahead of the game for quite a while, 3rd trio is a masterwork.
>>129200713While I agree, it's hard to dismiss the fact that his imaginative works are the most attractive.
>>129200747Of course, and not just his. Think of the most celebrated composers/pieces, e.g. Choral fantasy (predicting his own 9th), Mozart concerti (esp. no.20). Highest art requires creative ingenuity in all aspects.
So sad Schumann has no melodies.>"In Schumann there is not a single melody, and that’s why I place Schubert so high above him.">"I think highly, too, of many of his songs, though they are not as great as Schubert's. He took pains with his declamation—no small merit a generation ago.">Wagner says he has often sung to himself themes from Mendelssohn but found it impossible to do the same with Schumann, whereas with Brahms he had really begun to doubt his musical receptivity till his pleasure in Sgambati showed him he was still capable of taking things in.>He then speaks of how much he likes the one chorus in [Mendelssohn’s] Saint Paul following the stoning of Saint Stephen. He remarks on what a period of decadence we live in; Mendelssohn still had some ideas, then Schumann, a foolish brooder, and now Brahms with nothing at all!>Wagner wrote ironically to Wolzogen about the various tragedies: of Schumann, to have possessed no melodies, of Rossini, to have had no school, of Brahms, to be a bore, etc.
>>129200800>cuts out arias>accuses Rossini of having no schooltop kek
>>129200800>Schopenhauer, as it turns out, had no use—and no ear—for Wagner’s chromatic harmonies. Wagner sent him a beautifully bound copy of the Ring with the inscription, “from respect and gratitude.” The grouchy philosopher was not impressed. He instructed the Swiss journalist, Franz Wille, to convey a message to his friend Wagner: “but tell him that he should stop writing music. His genius is greater as a poet. I, Schopenhauer, remain faithful to Rossini and Mozart.”[3] The response was rude but not surprising, since Schopenhauer, who played the flute (not, like Nietzsche, the piano), was a lover of diatonic catchy tunes.
>>129200883Tunes with inner-voice chromatic harmonies are catchier than diatonic, from my experience at least.
>>129200982>chromatic harmonies are catchier than diatonicThis, but atonal harmonies are the most catchy. Caught myself humming Webern on the way to work this morning.
>>129200883Fredrick the great also played the flute
>>129200883I'm genuinely surprised to hear that Nietzsche wasn't a guitarist considering his following
>>129201057...are you implying that Schopenhauer was gay?
>>129201053I've hummed a great deal of Schoenberg and Berg myself, but I'm impartial to Webern, he's the Bach of atonality.
>>129201142>I've hummed a great deal of Schoenberg and BergHaven't we all...
>>129201081You be the judge
>>129201179I don't think so. Berg? Maybe. Schoenberg takes dedicated effort to grasp.
>>129200800didn't this dude write opera
>>129201295Music dramas.
>>129201294We have all been humming the three B's of atonality (Berg, schoenBerg, and weBern) frequently here, nothing like whistling some dissonance and tone rows on our morning walks.
>>129201295Original Soundtracks.
finished listening to all of Brahms symphonies. It's weird how Brahms 1 immediately resonated with me and has become one of my favorite symphonies but 2-4 didn't do much for me. Definitely need more re-listens though.btw, the 2nd movement of Brahms 1 on here is beautiful. it works so well with a chamber orchestra.
>>129201355Brahms 4th is one of the greatest triumphs of symphonic composition, give it another try.
Studying Cherubini and masturbating to Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Juliet. Bump.
Listening to a concerto for solo piano and thinking about Timberly's effete hands wrapped around my magic flute.
>>129200357That was Messiaen.
>Schubert, who was only 1.52 m (5 feet) tall, was nicknamed "Schwammerl" by his friends, which Gibbs describes as translating to "Tubby" or "Little Mushroom">the musicologist Maynard Solomon suggested that Schubert was erotically attracted to men
>>129202776>Little MushroomCute :333 I would hug Schubby, shroom boi.
>>129200620>>129200478the Bach's were not deliberately obfuscating. the matter. they just wanted a practical and effective system for improvising classical music, and you won't get it from reading Fux and Rameau.
*Bachs*
>>129200800>>"In Schumann there is not a single melody, and that’s why I place Schubert so high above him.">>Wagner says he has often sung to himself themes from Mendelssohn but found it impossible to do the same with SchumannInteresting that Wagner's definition for a melody consists in its singability.
>>129202776>SchwammerlA "Schwammerl" besides meaning "mushroom" is also ancient Austrian slang for being tipsy.And as Austrians tend to use endearing terms, being tipsy actually means shit-faced drunk.
Found a nice new (to me) recording of Brahms 1, lads. Seji Ozawa. It's certainly mixed well.
>Coffee with Prof. Nietzsche; unfortunately he vexes R.[Richard] very much with an oath he has sworn not to eat meat, but only vegetables. R. considers this nonsense, arrogance as well, and when the Prof. says it is morally important not to eat animals, etc., R. replies that our whole existence is a compromise, which we can only expiate by producing some good. One cannot do that just by drinking milk—better, then, to become an ascetic. To do good in our climate we need good nourishment, and so on. Since the Prof. admits that Richard is right, yet nevertheless sticks to his abstinence, R. becomes angry.
>>129194291>Wagner was a staunch vegetarian>>129203272>Wagner considers vegetarianism nonsenseSo which is it?
>>1291941702, 4, 5, 6, 8 - Chailly1, 3 - Mackerras7 - Porcelijn9 - Gielenthis is of course if you want your Beethoven played correctly (so not slow as fuck)
>>129203187so he was a fat drunken manlet?
>>129203288only Nietzsche was a vegetarian. Wagner also told him to stop masturbating.
>>129202953Well I agree with you there And I would say that partimento isn't cutting the way either
>>129203335This guy thinks that learning partimento is essential to improvising in the baroque style.
>>129203351I think that as a method partimento is valuable in its novelty of a departure from Fux
>>129203335partimento is just a poor man's version of the Bach system.
>>129203392I don't think we know the bach system because his family concealed it to remain the goat after learning it from buxtehude
Opera fanatics tell me Sutherland, Pavarotti and Mehta are all atrocious but Hurwitz told me they have the reference recording for Turandot.Who am I to believe?
>>129203428Your ears.
>>129203428what retard told you those were atrocious?anyway I would generally ignore Hurwitz but in this case yeah that recording's pretty good
>>129203432But I'm afraid my ears will lie to me.
>>129203437Well then trust your hips I guess.
>>129203428>Who am I to believe?MusicWeb Internationalhttps://musicwebinternational.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/Puccini-Turandot-survey-LD.pdf
>>129203428why even listen to Puccini
>>129203452For the singers.
>>129203467just listen to them in Verdi and Mozart instead.
>>129203400it's possible figure it out by reading the collected writings of CPE Bach and John Kirnberger. The most important points to take away from them are as follows:1. there are essentially two types of triads:- groups of intervals (e.g. a 521 chord has three intervals - two fifths, and one second)- filler chords (e.g. a 531 chord is a filled-out 5th, a 631 chord is a filled-out 6th, etc.)2. chords beyond three parts are composites.3. three, two, and one part writing are the skeletons of four-part writing.4. the chord progression determines which part progressions can be used. e.g. if you're going from a G to a C chord the 3rd must ascend by a step, the 7th and 9th must descend by a step, and so on.
>>129203498I don't think triads and chords are a part of the system at all and are merely an artifice
>>129203536triads and chords are a part of the system but not roots/fundamental basses which Carl considered an oversimplification for several reasons. I will return with an example.
>>129203536>>129203574https://vocaroo.com/18pkl0eLQClI
>>129203662Oh god I've not seen the one on the right before but that is cancerAt least they knew Ramaeu was off his fucking rocker
>>129203321>Nietzsche was a vegetarianOh look, another comment about the linguist that is completely and utterly false, because no one actually reads him (which to be fair, is a positive, since his words are as quality as Fagner's are). >I, an opponent of vegetarianism, who have experienced what vegetarianism is, just as Wagner, who converted me back to meat, experienced itThe B.M.W. Trio and the psuedo-philosopher linguist are fucking HACKS, all of them are complete self-gratuitous garbage from self absorbed rejects that have absolutely zero concrete views on anything besides a goal towards autofellatio at every moment possible. These people do not actually have any foundational structure to their thoughts, they are guided by the principle of nothing, by trivial emotions that change on the whims of the moment.
>>129203944He converted him back to meat huh
>>129203944filtered.
>>129203961The retarded linguist was bound to end up that way by himself, it is only natural that he would devolve into thinking MEAT = STRONG, because he was a total imbecile.>>129203964You were filtered by actual philosophy into reading the equivalent of blogspot rants and shit-talking. Nietzsche is not a philosopher, he is a disease.
>>129203983read Plotinus and Boethius.
>>129204013>read the two guys responsible for shitting up Plato with Judaism No thanks!
>>129204042filtered.
>>129204049Yes, yes, just like we were all "filtered" by Cage's 4'33. Any other 4chan.org buzzwords you would like to share with the class?
>>129204065yes. ywnbaw.
>>129204077Thank you retard.
>>129204080thank you, historically illiterate philistine.
>>129204106No problem, blogspot rant lover.
>>129204122laughably ludicrous.
>>129204136Incredible ignorance.
>>129204155frightfully foolish
>>129204175Decidedly deranged.
>>129204201extremely embarrassing
>>129203305I'm a metronome marking enjoyer myself, but I find that I prefer the overall aesthetic of the older tradition in combination with the MM. So conductors like Scherchen, Leibowitz, Toscanini, sometimes Kleiber, who took Beethoven at his word when it came to tempo but still had big orchestras with full blooded vibrato. Gielen's pretty good though, I agree.
Can you guys rec me some good music pre 1600s that isn't too heavy on being choral/church music?
Do the music of operas and their librettos share a relationship similar to porn and plot? You gotta have something as an excuse for the action but nobody would ever argue that it's the main attraction, or an attraction by itself?
>>129204332Carmina Burana I guess
>>129204341Kinda depends on the composer and script. Wagner, for all his faults as a writer, is still above average as a librettist and I would say that it elevates him above other opera composers. Verdi's all over the place. Sometimes he got good libretti and other times he didn't. Ditto with Mozart, Puccini, Rossini and many others. But on the other hand you have operas like Wozzeck in which the music is completely inseperable from the script and they service one another perfectly.
Why do so many great composers have such shitty taste in the poetry that they set to music, and why do so many great poets have so little talent, or even an ear for music? You'd think poetry and music would be practically sibling arts. But they seem to be anything but.
>>129204574that is why God sent us Wagner (pbuh).
>>129204574Composers only need set the scripture
>>129201295i've seen on instagram a jew spamming something along the lines of "the united states gave israel zero money from taxpayer dollars because those taxpayer dollars were used to manufacture weapons for israel inside the usa"that's the kind of person who replies "music dramas" is... no, they are not music dramas, they are B-tier operas
>>129203272>YU WIL EET ZE DEAD ANIMAL AND MAKE ME SOME MUSIC!!!!!this wagner guy sounds scary
[Tannhauser theme softly plays]
>>129205158sisters...
Looking up Tannhauser and rightfully asking myself "who the fuck is this guy writing caricatures about noblemen's business" I found out that Wagner came from what today we know as a "blue collar" family. Mega-lol.Now I most certainly know who and why is pushing all this retardation.
>>129205158>
>>129205257this is my rebuttalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NM_4hU1ukE&list=OLAK5uy_mW3cvmlOBi9wgPju6c7P9In4AMb8mifZI&index=14
>>129205660takes more than that butt to bribe me
>>129205705don't post here ever again tranime pedo sister
>>129205731lol
For today's opera performance, we listen to Verdi's Otello conducted by Anthony Pappano.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3st3JajN2o4&list=OLAK5uy_ny3JwT8xQYviHHhEPkkAsp1RrENO7fTO0&index=29
>>129206531>jonas kaufmann>anthony pappano
Pappano gets HUMILIATED for his ignorance of how opera singing should sound:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyBPZY8oMl8
>>129206597I listened to Levine's yesterday but didn't wanna post him again, and I've had luck with Pappano many times before.
>>129204209Particularly pathetic.
>>129206853clearly cretinous.
>>129206669What's Maria Callas singing at 5:20?
>>129206867Seriously subhuman.
>>129206883bewilderingly brainless.
>>129206936Bloody bastard.
>>129206958astoundingly appalling
>>129206962Truly transgendered.
>>129206969highly horrendous.
>>129206669Correct.
>>129206983Astounding aspergers.
>>129207016quite quarrelsome.
>>129207030Nonsensical neuroticism.
>>129195277It's good for the voice
>>129207044majorly melanated.
>>129207055Laughably lackluster.
>>129207065objectively obnoxious
>>129207070Tremendously troubled.
>>129207072really retarded.
>>129207080Honestly homosexual.
>>129206870Hello, does anyone know what opera that is???? I thought this place had opera fanatics.
>>129207088they are only fanatical about wagner and the magic flute
>>129207086utterly underwhelming.
>>129207088>I thought this place had opera fanatics.We here on /classical/ prefer Absolute Music and believe "opera is not an art form of the intellectual". Perhaps try >>>/tv/ instead?
>>129207098There's never been a great composer or musician who disliked opera.
>>129207101/ouguy/ Glenn Gould dislikes opera, and we love and respect that autist here.
>>129207088>I thought this place had opera fanatics.There are but they aren't online right now, that's the real key with this general. This is prime time to talk about Chopin, Brahms, Beethoven, and Mahler, not opera. Maybe in 12 hours.
>>129207124Gould is ok but it's big Dave who calls the shots around these parts.
>>129206669>>129206597it sounds good to mehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLjc3f7hYQA&list=OLAK5uy_ny3JwT8xQYviHHhEPkkAsp1RrENO7fTO0&index=1
>>129207132Midwitz is hated and reviled as the fat ugly mongrel he is on this general.
Opera is a not a genre, it is a disease.
>>129207138/classical/ is outer /hurwitz/.iykyk.
>>129207093Baffling buffoonery.
>>129207153wildly woeful.
>>129207124That makes sense lol
>>129207148I'm afraid the /classical/ council (that you are not a part of) has already voted in favor of hating and despising the disgusting eceleb by large majority.
>>129207159Intensely incoherent.
>>129207124Somebody said that Gould would be here shooting the shit with us That's spot on, spot on
>>129207167be careful, anon. big Dave himself might be lurking in this thread right now.
>>129207179verifiably vegetative.
>>129207134Search up what 'ingolata' means.
>[R.] comes to the subject of Nietzsche, who, out of sheer malice toward him, distorts the passage he wrote in his Beethoven about the way B. listened to folk melodies, and he did it just in order to denigrate R., "ignoring the fact that Beethoven was the greatest melodist who ever lived. The way he took a folk tune and gave it back to the people, transfigured–it was like the condescension of a god, like the unknown maiden appearing to the shepherd. And to rank him on that account somewhere below Schubert! What Schubert was, B. had long known all about. Disgraceful—and so stupid!">In the evening [R.] plays and sings An die entfernte Geliebte [Beethoven, Op. 98] to us, greatly moving us with it. "The whole of Schubert can be found in this," he says, and that brings him on to Nietzsche's maliciousness (about Schubert and Beeth.) and the whole dismal experience!
>>129207198Conclusively cancerous.
>>129207202All I know is I have enough trouble listening to male-centric lieders/oratorios/operas, so the fact I'm still listening to this one part way through must mean it's doing something well enough for me, and that's all I care about.
>>129207208grossly gay.
You walk into someone's house, they're listening to classical. Which genre/form would most make you impressed and believe they're patrician? Opera.QED
>>129207167>the disgusting ecelebu r saying that like he was an obnoxious 13 year old south korean girl streamer
>>129207232>Which genre/form would most make you impressed and believe they're patrician?String quartet or solo organ.
>>129203288As we all know, Richard Wagner (1813-1883) was a man of numerous contradictions. And that is certainly true of his eating habits as well. According to his second wife Cosima, Richard Wagner was “in principle” a vegetarian, but “in practice neither his health nor the orders of his physician allowed him to be a vegetarian.”
>>129207232yeah but only because opera connoisseurs know all the good recordings and mainly play the "good parts"... I tried getting into opera but it seems like it needs like five years to even find one recording to actually enjoy and not just be pretentious about
>>129207238String Quartet would be above-average no doubt. Solo organ would make me think they're more eccentric than patrician.
>>129207219Definitely demented.
>>129207232Opera overture
>>129207238>>129207246>string quartet implies the person has 3 frens who are at least as skilled as he/her isthat's CHEATING
>>129207245>and mainly play the "good parts"I've heard that from some people on here, that people into opera only listen to the arias, but it's debunked for one simple fact: when listening on vinyl, you have to listen to the entire thing, and opera was very popular on vinyl.
>>129207248juvenile jerk.
>>129207246Incorrect. String Quartet and solo organ are the two most foundational genres of Absolute Music besides SATB, which is usually just tradcath larpers. Opera is lowbrow garbage and in many places like Italy you will find even people who don't listen to classical at all will have many operas they like.
>>129207246Man hollywood fucked up the organ
>>129207245Finding the best recordings is part of the fun. And if you're at that level where you're super picky about the singers, you can determine if you like the singers in the first 10-20 minutes. Lastly, there aren't THAT many operas, so you figure a lifetime of listening to operas, that's a lot of time to listen to tons and tons of recordings of the masterpieces and great operas; it's not like you're balancing listening to a new opera everyday, y'know?
>>129207269>in many places like Italy you will find even people who don't listen to classical at all will have many operas they like.Maybe 30 years ago.
the Vagner meme
>>129207258>when listening on vinyl, you have to listen to the entire thingyou must be young if you haven't seen a man bent over a pick-up trying to drop the needle in a certain place (bonus points if everybody is drunk)
new>>129207302>>129207302>>129207302
>>129207299I've actually never listened to a record so I didn't know you could that. But I think my point stands, you're not gonna be relistening to the same arias over and over on a record.
>>129207287Its still true to this day, no one who listens to string quartets doesn't listen to all of classical in general, but Opera is the largest genre of tourists imaginable because it was the tv schlock of its day.
>>129207305You make me wonder if there were eccentric record makers who would press looping personal mixtapes like how people upload 10 hour youtube loop slop
>>129207305>But I think my point stands, you're not gonna be relistening to the same arias over and over on a record.that's the bonus points part
>>129207314https://www.discogs.com/lists/Notable-Locked-Grooves-records/400062
There's something new to discover in each Mahler symphony every single time you listen to it. Something in the inner voices, an unresolving pedal point, invertible counterpoint, something something. It's literally made for home-listening, for true music connoisseurs.
