Bach editionhttps://youtu.be/PCtEMv2LXHcThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>129194078
First for Boulez
First for Bosarge
>>129207306>because it was the tv schlock of its day.Which is why listening to opera at home is more patrician than attending an opera performance, because then it approaches pure music.
>>129207313>it approaches pure music.Approaches pure garbage you mean, imagine listening to 2 hours of formless slop that only has meaning when you are watching the play and reading the libretto.
>walk into somebody's house for the first time>they're listening to Bartok's string quartets and Messiaen's solo piano musici kneel at their high-brow intellectual superiority
>>129207323Skill issue
>>129207324Correct.
>>129207323Lemme ask you this: how do you feel about Mahler's Das Lied von der Erde? How is that meaningfully different than an opera, at least in terms of embracing one and dismissing the other? It isn't, and it's that argument which convinced me to start giving opera a chance.
Remember when classical music was fun and you didn't have to defend your listening preferences against the most asinine nonsense some unemployed midwit hurls at you on an online basketweaving forum?
>>129207337That's what discussion is, anon, don't take any of it too seriously. Unless you prefer HIP, in which case, die die die!
>>129207248zany zygopteran.
>>129207330Skill issue prevents you from turning on real music instead of tv schlock, correct. >>129207334>how is listening to something with actual form different than plot-driven programmatic nonsense?Opera fan IQ.
>>129207342>zygopteranThats not even a real word.
>>129207347>>how is listening to something with actual form different than plot-driven programmatic nonsense?>Opera fan IQ.I'm talking about the immediacy of its musical qualities. You don't listen to something like Bach's Passions, Haydn's The Seasons, or Mahler's DLvdE and go, "man I don't like the singing but the form won me over", the form is secondary after you like the music, which is the same kind of singing + orchestration used in opera.Now, if you wanna say you don't like any of the three works I named, then fine, fair enough, but if you do, as I suspect because we all do, then the line between them and opera is as thin as you can get.
>mfw i walk into someone's house and they're listening to Mahler, and it's...>mahler 2:/>mahler 6:)>mahler 10:D>das lied von der erde:O
String Quartets is an acquired taste.
>>129207376more like a necessityhow else could four grown men have fun, at the same time, without being gay
>>12920737699% of /classical/ wouldn't be able to tell if it was quintet, sextet, octet or quartet playing music if they weren't explicitly told or had been exposed to the piece beforehand.
[John Adams' Nixon in China softly plays]
>>129207376are, you dumbass.
>>129207302>go to friends house >mahlers adagietto is going loud >"oh ok he's not feeling good today, I'll come back later"
>>129207364>I'm talking about the immediacy of its musical qualities.Then perhaps head over to /wpop/ where you belong?
>>129207390no, you stay and see if it changes into the fifth movement finale so you know if he's listening to the symphony like a man or the adagietto on its own like a pleb
>go to a friends house>WELCOME ANON>also here's that [spoiler]Book of Mormon[/spoiler] I promised u
>>129207306Nothing turns off normies more than opera singing. There are more normie casual fans of classical music that listen to Beethoven's late string quartets because of their reputation than there are those that listen to opera. The best litmus test for seeing if someone has escaped the tastes of commercial popslop is what they think of opera.
>>129207396I accept your concession. Thanks for the intellectual exercise, better luck next time.
>>129207399You're going to stand outside his house until it changes?
>>129207405>I accept your concession.Anyone who has ever written this has been the losing party. Confession denied.
>>129207407if Mahler is playing? you bet your ass, i'll listen to his music in any situation
>>129207413Kek based
>>129207402>Nothing turns off normies more than opera singingIncorrect. Go outside your amerimutt hugbox, plenty of brainless females go to Opera houses as entertainment, because thats what it is: entertainment schlock.
>>129207409Except you know my argument is the death knell. Either you claim you don't like Bach's Passions, Haydn's The Creation, and Mahler's DLvdE like a pleb, or you admit there's very little meaningful difference in the music in these works and that in opera, and if you enjoy one set, you should be able to enjoy the other.
Ever since the /metal/ raid these threads are so annoying. I hope this "phase" will be over when or if I'm back.
>>129207401there is literally nothing wrong with punching Mormons in the face.
>>129207427>create ridiculous notion that Bach's Passions are in any form similar to Opera because... they both have singing and all he listens to is the "immediacy of its musical qualities" aka timbre>declare your argument to be full proof Just another Opera fan moment.
>>129207433:(
>>129207431Mindbroken and mentally dominated.
For today's opera performance, we listen to Mikhail Glinka's Ruslan and Ludmila conducted by Valery Gergiev.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=getYOd4SEyM&list=OLAK5uy_lhKsT9zyJhXUk6gcsZVTgNWTpomqGHlE4&index=13
>>129207444>Bach's Passions are in any form similar to OperaNTA, but they are operas, just with sacred text. How new are you?
>>129207444Not just singing, but similar singing. I'm not calling Mahler's 8th or a Bach or Haydn Mass operatic. It's alright, I'll allow you to save face and stop replying after this. Just give opera another try is all I ask.
>opera conducted by Xwho gives a shit>oper with X in the lead rolenow we're talking
>>129207446fuck you and your space Jesus.
>>129207451>oratorios = operaThank you retard.
>>129207457Maybe it's because I'm a novice to opera but I search by conductor, not singer (I don't even really recognize any names of singers yet, at least in terms of recognizing which are good or bad and listening to a recording based on them), so that's why I include their name.
>>129207456>I'm not calling Mahler's 8th or a Bach or Haydn Mass operatic.No, instead you suggest the only reason anyone listens to anything is because of "immediacy of its musical qualities", aka timbre. Which is why I suggest you return to /wpop/ and >>>/tv/ where you belong.
>>129207459Both have arias, recitatives, chorales etc. The two are almost identical.
>>129207426>plenty of brainless females go to Opera houses as entertainmentWithout being entertained, because they like the IDEA of opera and not opera itself which can scarcely be entertaining with such bad singers and staging. How are you so stupid to claim that opera is mass pleb entertainment when its entire entertainment hinges on the power and beauty of the voices that don't exist anymore? If you fail to understand how an artwork could both succeed as popular entertainment and an artistic masterpiece then an you're not smart enough for classical music to begin with. Let's face it, you're just rationalising your pleb aversion to opera singing.
>>129207457>>129207469Singers are more important in Italian operas and conductors are more important in German operas. It's pretty much that simple.
>>129207491>hinges on the power and beauty of the voices that don't exist anymoreWhy are you acting like anyone who goes to Opera cares about musical quality? Its literally lowbrow entertainment you sit and watch like tv musicals with your friends to pass some time at a night out.
There's a reason this intro gives the book an air of patrician...ness.
>>129207505If only the issue of whether opera is high art or formless slop were this clear cut :/
>>129207485>The two are almost identical.Except you know, the entire musical theater aspect, you retarded fuck.
>>129207511This "patrician" can't even spell Tannhäuser right.
>>129207212Once you start listening to the great singers of the past you wont want to go back to Kaufmann:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2cJYz_yqgU
>>129207512>high artWagner, Strauss, Mozart, Berg, Berlioz>mass artBellini, Verdi, Rossini, Puccini, DonizettiI'm mostly just teasing.
>>129207517or clean his nails.
>>129207524Well, like I said, I listened to Levine's yesterday which has Placido Domingo which I quite liked, I just wanted to try a new, more recent recording.
>>129207531It happens sometimes when walking and taking the bus to the library, even if I were to shower right before I left, pls no bully
>>129207458>space Jesus, singularyou know nothing... and I don't mean that in the cool "best thing is to know nothing" taoist way either
>>129207541Oh god(s), that picture just gave me hella flashbacks to my Mormon youth.
>>129207527Wagner & Mozart took pride in making art for the masses bro
>>129207539at least you aren't a fucking Mormon.
>>129207541fascinating. now please face the wall.
>>129207510Lol, okay, I guessed that you were ignorant of opera but this is another level of retardation. NO ONE GOES TO SEE OPERA BECAUSE OF THE PLOT, they go to see opera because of the singing which enchants people enough that they start to enjoy the plot. Most operas have extremely stagnant plots because they're so focused on ARIAS. With bad singing absolutely no one is going to give a shit about an opera plot.
>>129207547And they also took pride in showing off their formal mastery and genius. They're not mutually exclusive things.
now playingstart of Borodin: String Quartet No. 1 in A Majorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYnFOiSiO1E&list=OLAK5uy_mQ21wIioRTChnw2GC0X8SzUF_XXsx6ZAA&index=2start of Borodin: Piano Quintet in C Minorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek822Iv1KQo&list=OLAK5uy_mQ21wIioRTChnw2GC0X8SzUF_XXsx6ZAA&index=6start of Borodin: String Quartet No. 2 in D Majorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4tCq25Qax8&list=OLAK5uy_mQ21wIioRTChnw2GC0X8SzUF_XXsx6ZAA&index=9start of Borodin: Piano Trio in D Majorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRKT-urgnSM&list=OLAK5uy_mQ21wIioRTChnw2GC0X8SzUF_XXsx6ZAA&index=22+ a few more pieces, just didn't wanna copy+paste+write them all outhttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mQ21wIioRTChnw2GC0X8SzUF_XXsx6ZAA
>>129207567Huh, I didn't even know Borodin had chamber works beyond his two string quartets. Actually I might have known about the Piano Trio, but certainly not the Piano Quintet, String Quintet, and Sextet.
>>129207556I like the plot of The Medium
Bach's St John Passion has the power to save the worldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axXBuLzNsng&list=OLAK5uy_mTglJoGA9YYiXTTe6g6vPEO6AzPuOQ9tk&index=1
>>129207556People go to opera the same reason they go to the movies, its an audio-visual medium with extremely simplistic plot to give meaning to the other aspects. Its lowbrow dumb entertainment for people without the attention-span for pure music in symphony, masses, oratorios, or requiems. Movies have dreadful half-assed plot no one cares about as well, all aspects of audio-visual mediums are underwhelming and always will be, its a do-everything artform that satisfies only the tourists who view Art as entertainment.
>>129207590is that recording better than his first one
I guarantee you that Opera fans would have the lowest IQ of any genre in classical.
>>129207592But if you can enjoy masses/oratorios/requiems as pure music with no regard for the words, why can't you do the same for opera?
>>129207566then why high is contrasted with mass and not high with low (or patrician vs mass)>>129207555i ain't even mormon
>>129207592Yeah man Aeschylus and Shakespeare are totally underwhelming as poetry and literature because they're intended to be performed on stage with music... MORON.
>>129207598haven't heard his first one, but most reviews say this one is better. plus the neat backstory:>This release is labeled “The Köln Recording,” and you well might ask, “Why Köln?” In the spring of 2020, Bach Collegium Japan was on a European tour, and by the middle of March they had reached that city. Unless you have been living in an alternate universe for the past year, you will realize that Bach Collegium Japan's visit to Köln coincided with the rapid shuttering of life as we know it, due to the Covid-19 pandemic. The performers were told that their remaining concerts had been canceled. They were, however, presented with an opportunity to perform the St. John Passion in an audience-less live streaming concert if they were willing to wait a few days. What to do in the meantime? Masaaki Suzuki's wife, an alto in the chorus, suggested that they should record the work with the performers on hand, and that is how this recording came about. In other words, this is a studio recording of a major work that took place after almost no planning whatsoever—a rare if not unprecedented circumstance. An engineering team and recording equipment were assembled in a matter of days, and the recording took place in the Kölner Philharmonie. It was a race against time, as the local Polizei were champing at the bit to close the Philharmonie down. (Fortunately, one of them was a music-lover, and an additional hour was granted.)>This, of course, is a fascinating and touching story. As Suzuki writes, “Looking back, it was all like a miracle, and even now it seems like a dream. The tension of the whole experience, combined with the dramatic tension of the St. John Passion, will stay in our minds forever.”
>At lunch R. talks again about [Wilhelmine] Schröder-Devrient and her performance as Romeo. “That really made me feel that everything hangs on the dramatic action; all the classicality (even quartets sound like so much squeaking!) crumbled in my eyes at the sight of this human warmth. In fact the libretto is not at all badly done, and it had its effect on me when I decided to reduce Tristan to three love scenes.”>Continuing to talk about music, he says there are few things in music which completely satisfy one’s longing; the Adagio from the 9th Symphony is one of them—that could go on as long as it pleased, it is like a Sabbath, complete rest, it relaxes all one’s limbs! — But much belongs to what he calls cold music—quintets, trios, concertos, duets—music in which “the notes never pierce one like a dagger, the sweet compulsion is never felt”—for example, Beethoven’s B-flat Major Symphony for which one has to be in the right mood. The Scherzo is splendid, he says, but in the Adagio he always feels like saying. “Yes, I know,” and the theme of the first movement does not appeal to him. On the other hand, the F Major never fails to affect him.
>>129207600For the same reason we do not enjoy the stories of movies without the visual screen effects. >>129207605>fiction and poetry (which is partially musical in nature)>not lowbrow schlockLook at the female vs male reading preferences, you might learn a thing or two.
Why do you keep replying to him
end of argument line--------------------------------So what are we all listening to?
Real literature: PhilosophyReal music: AbsoluteLowbrow literature: FictionLowbrow music: Opera
>>129207621>For the same reason we do not enjoy the stories of movies without the visual screen effects.You can enjoy movies without sound, which perfectly demonstrates that one artistic element usually predominates in audio-visual art just as in opera music is the most important element and can be enjoyed on its own.
>>129207636>>129207640ex-CUSE me, see: >>129207629 thank you
>>129207629I've been listening to this Scriabin guy I've heard so much about. Was a bit suprised to find out that 90% of his compositions are just romantic piano slop since you guys talk about him like the second coming of Beethoven.
>>129207640>You can enjoy movies without sound,Said no one who wasn't deaf. There is a rason silent films are not being made anymore.
>>129207647>since you guys talk about him like the second coming of Beethoven.that's Brahmsand as far as solo piano music, I don't think even the biggest Scriabin fans here put him on the same level as Chopin and Liszt, or hell, even Schumann. But you'd probably dismiss those three as "romantic piano slop" too, so idk
>>129207644You should have made the post before I pressed post on my own post.
>>129207660I do dismiss Liszt as romantic piano slop so you've got me there.
Zhu Xiao-Mei's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s7XCRlDVA0&list=OLAK5uy_kNc8IgkrFiv2qplmynMU5yVUa1PfOIeZw&index=16>"In this work," says Zhu Xiao Mei, "Bach gave musical expression to life in all of its infinite facets." The Chinese pianist's name is inextricably linked to that of Johann Sebastian Bach. For Zhu Xiao-Mei the special quality of the Goldberg Variations lies in the fact that all human emotions and feelings find expression here. "I love them above all else, each day a little more, and I have always wanted to share this love with others...">Since her first pioneering recording of the Goldberg Variations more than twenty years ago, Zhu Xiao-Mei has played the work several hundred times at recitals all over the world. Through the encounter with her audiences she has evolved a new vision of the work, which she is now presenting to listener in the form of this new CD recording.>"It is the cyclical character of the work that I believe affects listeners the most. It begins and ends in the same way. And when we again hear the Aria, we have the impression that we have understood something. It is about life and death. The Chinese will quote Lao Tzu: "The return is the movement of Tao." Christians will talk about eternal life. It is also about the idea that there is no ending. And so there is hope."
>>129207676>Chinese nameNot listening!
>>129207684https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHwZ8NUAQUI&list=OLAK5uy_mRwY-LEYgdR7t8IzaA4TlYyyh_M2kPi9w&index=16
>>129207689>no humming>no chair creakingUnlistenable.
kek
>>129207740We can use ai to add chair creaking and mumbling consistent with the performers mannerisms and interpretation
Nothing can quite compare with the pleasure of walking up to an opera singer who has been training for 10 years and telling him that there's not enough squillo in his voice.
>>129207740https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6luMbUEytXw&list=OLAK5uy_nHUdugP6HFfDNsZwO50H1nSr8jIEnh75s&index=26
>>129207756Notice how most of the names in the High-Brow section do in fact have operas.
>put on opera>able to listen to about an hour before I feel like changing to something else>put on piano music>can barely make it to only 10 minutes before I feel like changing to something elsedamn, have I become an operafag?
Messiaenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq8Wl9sP8fE&list=OLAK5uy_mLsPbOa1EB0cXF1pzTJQy6iCHts2CsxR8&index=11
>>129207785Deteriorating mind and lower t levels from old age, many such cases.
>>129207760But can AI perfectly replicate having random violin recordings playing in the background? I think not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX8aYU3-CRcWhere are the armies? Where has the magic gone? Where are the battalions launching into battle? Where are the ginormous space battles I was promised? There has to be more to life than "this" rock, I can't just sit here and waste my spirit and energy in this circus.I don't care about living. I don't care about getting old. I don't care about marriage. I want battle...I want conflict...I want chaos...I want constant state of disorder...I want my life to become a Shakespearian play...I want to be a Hamlet filled with vengeance...I want to be an Orpheus dancing in the depths of Tartarus. Burn it all down...BURN EVERYTHING DOWN!
let's see, which Bruckner cycle do I wanna go with today... Barenboim? Karajan? Tintner? Blomstedt? Wand? Celibidache? all tempting choices, but today let's go with Skrowaczewski, a set every Bruckner fan ought to have in their collection3rdhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeL10bjj_gw&list=OLAK5uy_mynvQWzA8I-b44fj9BHdoPhb61-6P0QcA&index=204thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF0jOnpnvi8&list=OLAK5uy_mynvQWzA8I-b44fj9BHdoPhb61-6P0QcA&index=245thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsq7GOZtgyU&list=OLAK5uy_mynvQWzA8I-b44fj9BHdoPhb61-6P0QcA&index=27
>>129207740...b-but Fazil Say *does* hum
10 IQ person lowbrow here, apologies for shitting up the thread with this but what era/composer is being emulated here?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY3Xgek9DTcBesides you know, neo-classical, yet another Sakuraba song, anime vidya shit, etc. etc.
>>129207936First viennese school or maybe Mendelssohn if he was way more boring than he actually is.
now playingstart of Ernst von Dohnanyi: Symphony No. 1 in D Minor, Op. 9https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4gkkxqGyrY&list=OLAK5uy_nW6LNkEsERIcwiRbAN-MaVBeEuAGXPqR8&index=1https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nW6LNkEsERIcwiRbAN-MaVBeEuAGXPqR8Some decent-to-solid Brahmsian late romanticism.
Holy shit! Why aren't Elgar's oratorios a bigger deal? This is as good as the very best choral music from the Romantic era.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7yU2QnnEAs&list=OLAK5uy_l5f43spYEAFobO0SS9VI_gblMuMr_bxtY&index=1
>>129207775>horseshoe theory is real
upon finding out that Bernstein was a flaming homosexual, i decided to get rid of all my Bernstein recordingsto much of my surprise i had none, even with all the bulk stuff piled upquite amazing, i'll have to pat myself on the back for that one
>>129207992While they've certainly become less prominent as the 19th century taste for oratorios has receded, I feel that The Dream of Gerontius is generally still cited as one of Elgar's greatest works and The Apostles and The Kingdom have generally found advocates over the decades in Boult, Hickox, and as you see there, Elder. But this is admittedly pretty concentrated in the UK, although Gerontius was actually appreciated more in Germany at the time of its premiere.
>>129208023Reminds me of the schizoanon who used to post here, who would periodically mention his cleansing of his library of any J performers.
>>129208023Oh look, the bigot has arrived!
>>129208032It's funny because Gerontius is the one I haven't been able to get into yet. But you're right, that one is pretty acclaimed.
>>129207775>>129208014>doesn't see that operas are specifically listed in middle brow
>>129208023Homosexual performers have more soul.
>>129208127*mogs your path*
now playingstart of William Alwyn: Symphony No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1_7CLnLxr4&list=OLAK5uy_maRcIgzl4EPo3DFwqHGQ_ZRrFZPq88JRA&index=2start of William Alwyn: Piano Concerto No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYDu8V33n4w&list=OLAK5uy_maRcIgzl4EPo3DFwqHGQ_ZRrFZPq88JRA&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_maRcIgzl4EPo3DFwqHGQ_ZRrFZPq88JRA>Chandos and Lyrita presently are the only labels producing the works of William Alwyn. The Lyrita symphonies have the advantage of being conducted by the composer in recordings from the 1970s. The Chandos releases of Alwyn's symphonies are accompanied by smaller works, in this case Alwyn's 15-minute Piano Concerto No. 1. Hickox takes Alwyn's music through slightly faster pacing and gets a much less gloomy reading of Alwyn's brand of modernism. The Piano Concerto is particularly breezy and the Chandos sound has never been as glorious. It somehow has rendered the LSO livelier than usually. Highly recommended. --Paul CookOne's diet can never contain enough lesser-known symphonies. Hopefully choosing this Hickox cycle over the newer one by David Lloyd-Jones on Naxos isn't a mistake. I'll probably get around to trying his too at some point, same as I did for Bax (only the older Bax cycles were by Bryden Thomson and Vernon Handley).
>>129208127yeah but it's the wrong kind
>>129208126...? Yes, and my point is it's amusing many in the High-Brow have operas too, unless you think the insinuation is excluding their operas.
>>129208134>low effort troll postpeople who vocalize while playing the peano will be taken to the back of the concert hall and shot
>>129208144>insinuation is excluding their operas.Correct.
>>129208134Precisely, Gould was a bad pianist.
If you dislike operas then you must dislike ever cantabile melody ever written including by Mozart and Chopin.
>>129208147Things hated and condemned here:>HISS>Crackling>Volume cutting in and out>Shrill highs>Muddy bottom end>Missing frequenciesThings loved and condoned here:>Humming>Chair creaking>Mumbling>Page flipping>Music being performed in the studio next door
>>129208177Exactly. Even Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, and most other composers. If you don't like opera you don't understand classical music.
>>129208186>Volume cutting in and outwhat if a cute girl plays with the volume dial
>>129208177>>129208219>t. has no idea things like lieder, oratorio, mass, requiem, etc exist
>>129208233They are all in the same category as opera.
gonna press play on this 14+ hour set of Schumann's complete solo piano music by Jorg Demus and see how far I can make it. if anyone else wants to join,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKgDR677PYE&list=PLJTn_xypkdW3C1uBy8_YT3x0P1DZ7babq&index=1
>>129208239>all these genres without musical theater or plot are the same as opera. The opera simps in this thread don't even like or care about opera, its all just a shitty larp.
>>129208241>SchubhumanNot listening!
>>129208241no but I wish you enjoyment (and zero hums-n-mumbles)
>>129208257All of those genres have text ("plot") and sometimes staging (which is not necessary for either of them).
>>129208225Only if its Timberly.
ever since listening to Bellini's Norma twice this week, I've been randomly and without any prompting shouting "buh-lini!!" when at home
Newfag here. Started reading one of the books from the op to get some basic theory understanding, but I don’t get something. The book mentions a B# major key. Why? Why does that even exist? It’s just C, what purpose does calling it B# have?These kinds of eharmonics confuse me in general. I can see why you might want to write E# instead of F when you’re in the F# key, purely for the sake of readability, but why would you do something like that to describe a tonic? Likewise, the book suggests learning the 15 major and minor key signatures, but B / Cb, F# / Gb and C# / Db are the same things, so why make the distinction, and in that case why make it only for them instead of for every single key?
>>129208317If you don't get any answers here, you might have more luck on /r/musictheory or perhaps /r/piano / /r/pianolearning
>>129208271 >text ("plot") >sometimes staging Intentionally seeking tiny exceptions and dividing terms into black and white without any nuance in order to lump things that have no relation together to serve your shitty narrative.
Craig Sheppard's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aI6Frh1jY0&list=OLAK5uy_niuBG3f5wSLexWCEX2nVbTi56vtoD8MDc&index=34
>>129208412thank you schizo spammer
>bald /metal/cucks spamming /classical/ againThe absolute state of the follicly challenged.Blasting some SVS to rid me off the stench of Minoxidil.https://youtu.be/o1RHvuGqMcQhttps://youtu.be/Qw1sqOoBFH4https://youtu.be/w7ohcKQst4U
>>129208409why is papa bach airbrushed on that keyboard? are those the keys you ain't supposed to touch?
At times like these I think of the Master of Music and Poetry in whose name this general was consecrated. Wagner would not have allowed his discord kittens to grow so unruly. With his integral and organic conception of the artwork he would, while paying the respect due to those composers out of whose genius was formed these pristine instruments of musical understanding, recognize these matters as beneath the dignity of the true artist for whom they are but tools of his unified expression. Come, let us embrace one another as sisters and retreat to the seraglio to repose in profound meditation upon the works of the Master.https://youtu.be/yF0pwSC7qWg
>>129208317>Why does that even exist?Because you apply sharps and flats to any pitch, including B. That being said, most of those keys are just theoretical constructs and are never used, and the book presumably only lists it for completeness' sake. Also, if you're completely new to all of this, it is immensely helpful to have audio examples, so I recommend watching an introductory Youtube course before moving on to more in-depth books, for example this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jffTBei6mxY&list=PLSntcNF64SVVBtDnYIfoLlvM4gPJw_i6R
>>129207647>anon is surprised that this romantic composer is, in fact, romanticSounds like your own fault. Either that or you've listened to shitty performances of this notoriously difficult composer to pull off.>>129207660>I don't think even the biggest Scriabin fans here put him on the same level as Chopin and Liszt, or hell, even SchumannRight, because he's better and more diverse than all of those.
>>129207647>>129208650Oh and he *is* the second coming of Beethoven, but only when it comes to piano sonatas, which is a very specific niche. Overall, Beethoven is clearly the more capable composer; Scriabin never wrote chamber music, which Beethoven excels at. At least get your expectations right.
Name composers you never expected to be this good in a specific form or genre. I'll go first>Debussy: chamber music>Brahms: organ music>Fauré: piano music
>>129208650>he's better and more diverse than all of those.Maybe on a different solar system
>>129208720>his music is from another planetYes, I know.
>>129207660>that's BrahmsLmao, Brahms piano music is not better than Scriabin you germcuck. It took him 100 opuses to compose decent solo pieces for it, let alone make it sound good.
>>129208754Was lange währt, wird endlich gut.
>>129208747From planet of inferior harmonic language.
>>129208754Speaking as a Scriabin fan, you most likely misunderstood their comment. They're not saying Brahms's piano music is better than Scriabin's. Just that Brahms was seen as Beethoven's successor. Also, Brahms's first piano pieces are already good. The first piano sonatas are decent (honestly, probably the strongest Op. 1 ever) and the 4th Ballade and both PCs are all masterpieces.
>>129208773Yeah, if you're going to try and diss Scriabin, choosing harmony as your battleground is not going to get you very far. Literally the most harmonically advanced composer of his time. Anyway, all I'm doing is disputing your "I don't think even the biggest Scriabin fans here put him on the same level as Chopin and Liszt, or hell, even Schumann" assessment, which is silly. I'm a big Scriabin fan and these are my genuine thoughts, and I can back them up. Deal with it.
>>129208787>Literally the most harmonically advanced composer of his time.Anyone can come up with their own half-assed language, that does not demonstrate their mastery of harmony. >even the biggest Scriabin fans here put him on the same level as Chopin and Liszt, or hell, even Schumann" assessment, which is silly.It is only silly if you're new or a moron.
The Five Greatest Mahler ConductorsRiccardo ChaillyEliahu InbalLeonard BernsteinMichael GielenGary Bertinihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFMPV0iWtk4The Five Greatest Wannabe Mahler ConductorsBernard HaitinkClaudio AbbadoPierre BoulezGeorg SoltiSimon Rattlehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHV0imiucsg
>>129208900hope he uses that knife on his own neck soon
>>129208814>Anyone can come up with their own half-assed languageNot really, no.>that does not demonstrate their mastery of harmonyI agree. This has nothing to do with Scriabin though.>It is only silly if you're new or a moron.Good thing you're a moron then.
>>129209038When Dave speaks, /classical/ listens.
>>129209102Yes really. It has everything to do with Scriabin.Good thing you're both.
>>129209113>no uFascinating.>replies immediately after I come back an hour laterDo you live here?
>>129209120>>no uFascinating strawman.
>>129207839Kek
Thoughts on this sly fellow?
>>129208127Cliburn should have been saved but the cia needed him to be an activist in Russia
>>129208186For me it's >the musician quietly curses under their breath OR they suck in air through their teeth like the demonic BBC journalism lady
>>129208409They tried to fit him in B A C H but he's too fat
>Teaches Chopin>Teaches /classical/>Composes great musicThank you Cherubini.
>>129208900Huh, might be time I give that Inbal cycle a proper listen beyond the magnificent 10th.
>>129209178Some charming music.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFy0FOHf0w
>>129207959huh I really only know Hayden from the quartets and the usual normie picks. Guess I need to look into more of there less well known stuffdanke
>>129209324Why do you like Abbado so much? Explain yourself before the outer /hurwitz/. At least you don't shill Boulez...
>>129207959Mendelssohn is less boring than both viennese schools combined.
Best recording of the well tempered clavier 2 on harpsichord?
>>129209553I haven't listened many, but from what I heard, this one is quite good. Plus it contains pretty much everything? Yeah.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRvP_QC62Ok&list=OLAK5uy_k1bu-DKVoTyNPQ4QQRTejDnDQ-W1xXIuU&index=25
>>129209582(Except Goldberg Variation, which is on another album)
>>129209553Ruzickova and Walcha are my favorites (both have more than one recording, check them out on YouTube and see which is more to your liking)
where can i find harpsichord lolis
>>129209762https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lhLHGT8Tdgbest I can do is this
>>129208900Gielen instead of Kubelik or even Neumann is nuts.
>>129209786i was waiting for somebody to appear and sit down at the instrument lol
>>129207904>SkrowaczewskiI have that one, very solid, top 3plusJanowskiEMI CelibidacheBoth Wand boxesJochumSoltiAn awful lot of Bruckner :3
My piano is next to a window and its too cold to play My fingers are too stiff
>>129210249>>129207904nicebesides the ones mentioned I only have Asahina and Gennady "Laser Brass" Rozhdestvensky as bonusI think I'll seek out Evgeny Mravinsky's Bruckner's as I didn't have time yet... there are recordings of the 7th, 8th, and 9th available... if I'm not mistaken there is an anecdote about him touring, probably in Berlin, rehearsing the 4th... and at the end of the rehearsal he said "this was so beautiful that there is no reason why we should play it again..." so they rehearsed and played something else lol
You are all literally retarded. I've been asking for the best Matthew's Passion here for years, constantly getting most replusive, abhorrent recs. The only one I could enjoy was Richter's (in the OP). And yet, here it is, 19th century romantic supremacy strikes yet again. Mengelberg singlehandedly makes all your shitty recs worthless. I can't fathom whether you're all deaf, willfully ignorant or just unfamiliar with the work itself? How can you listen to ANY recording of this work made in the past 50 years (save for perhaps Richter) when it was properly recorded here, by a proper conductor? Am I wasting time here on /classical/ with bunch of tasteless low IQ plebs?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zayss_RBkj8&list=PLUy8QJ0ZzVPkui1RSaenlTo2Hx5IWMtDNNow at least have decency to shut up and listen to the greatest Matthew Passion posted on /classical/ thus far.
>>129207450This actually ended up being incredible.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z479qjercP0&list=OLAK5uy_lhKsT9zyJhXUk6gcsZVTgNWTpomqGHlE4&index=33Over the years I've seen on a few occasions anon list Glinka as one of their favorite composers, now I get it.
>>129211528The sound quality really gives it that feel of historical authenticity -- it sounds like it could have been recorded in the time of Christ! It is pretty nice though. You might like Scherchen's as well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClhUcVFCBZs&list=OLAK5uy_nuHKktIL3DV6ztaP-HD_0kkb20e0Vy7ZI&index=27
>>129210249I usually like Solti but I've never actually listened to his Bruckner because I've heard it's very brass-heavy, whereas I prefer a softer, stringy sonority. Is it good?
now playing, continuing with Hickox's Alwyn cyclestart of William Alwyn: Symphony No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgNWS3Cm7lc&list=OLAK5uy_nnPl9OklTB2ao-1uCK7zi8ZpI7bcfxAoA&index=2William Alwyn: Overture to a Masquehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl_l_lWAQBA&list=OLAK5uy_nnPl9OklTB2ao-1uCK7zi8ZpI7bcfxAoA&index=4William Alwyn: The Magic Islandhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-fAM0_xW6Q&list=OLAK5uy_nnPl9OklTB2ao-1uCK7zi8ZpI7bcfxAoA&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nnPl9OklTB2ao-1uCK7zi8ZpI7bcfxAoA>Richard Hickox's reading of Alwyn's Second Symphony is a bit slower than Alwyn's take on Lyrita 228. With his more relaxed pace, Hickox gets much darker colors out of the symphony; yet because of the luxurious Chandos sound, it never seems either too intellectual or too remote. The companion pieces show Alwyn in a much lighter mood, especially Overture to a Masque and Overture "Derby Day." In Symphonic Prelude "The Magic Island," Alwyn makes use of his own 12-tone technique but still manages to keep the work tonal overall. The Chandos series also incorporates Alwyn's own oil paintings for their booklet covers. This is what Chandos historically has done best. --Paul Cook
>>129211528Karajan's
>>129211607No, I won't. I tried your recs last year, and a year before that. And some other anon's recs years before that. And Hurwitz's rec. It was all utterly unenjoyable. Performers of the last 70 years have no desire to make great art anymore. Classical performance is dead.>It is pretty nice thoughHave you listened to it? Listen to the arias, you will instantly hear expression that can't be found in any modern recording. Portamentos all over the place, strings, solo violin, singer, also rubatos, extreme dynamic contrasts, everything is more alive.
>>129211684>Have you listened to it?I sampled a few parts just now. I get the appeal but the sound quality puts me off.And damn, you should have become a conductor so you can make your own modern recording.
>>129211737That Erbarme dich almost made my heart stop. It's easy to overlook sound quality when performance is so exceptional.
>spend all week listening to opera and choral music>parents questioning daily my mental healththat's you know these are the most patrician forms
>>129211904You're deranged and on meds anyway. Are they annoyed by opera? I thought you were listening with headphones
>>129211787Next time I listen to the SMP I will listen to it, I promise. I pinned the recording in my library and everything.from the ClassicsToday review by Dan Davis,>This recording of Mengelberg’s 40th annual St. Matthew Passion Easter concert, performed on Palm Sunday, 1939, has held legendary status among the conductor’s fans. I like it but it’s not for everybody. In fact, Naxos should have a cover sticker warning historically informed performance buffs that this St. Matthew Passion may be dangerous to their health. Its toxicity is proportionate to Mengelberg’s indulgent Romanticisms–the unending succession of rubatos, exaggerated dynamics, inappropriate, thickly-spread legato, micromanaged phrasing, and a runaway harpsichordist who disfigures recitatives with staccato poundings are among the objectionable practices here. Of course, many of these reflected the performing style of the time; others, the conductor’s willfulness.topkek
>>129211933I own nice headphones but I never use them
For today's opera performance, we listen to Wagner's Die Walkure conducted by Pierre Boulez.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRZEsPAhOX0&list=OLAK5uy_mW9kgJgXdBv6xR56T0vu7lRlFy8bflDlA&index=68
>>129211940>but it’s not for everybodyIt's not for morons and philistines (99.99% of classical listeners), that's for sure.>Naxos should have a cover sticker warning historically informed performance buffs that this St. Matthew Passion may be dangerous to their health. HAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHHAALMFAO>the unending succession of rubatos, exaggerated dynamics, inappropriate, thickly-spread legato, micromanaged phrasing, and a runaway harpsichordist who disfigures recitatives with staccato poundings Objectively (and verifiably),the most historically accurate Bach, as per Bach himself (see preface to the Magdalena/Bafh book). HIP movement is a gigantic failure of unprecedented proportions.>>129211964Maybe that's why you fail to notice subtle details sometimes. Does your room have acoustic treatment?
>>129211940all of those things are good but you Just know the counterpoint will be hard to make out and this will all sound like a soup
>>129211528this is dogshit
>>129212033>you Just know the counterpoint will be hard to make out and this will all sound like a soupYes and that's a GOOD THING
>>129212033Exact opposite. I just heard inner voices I never heard before, because these morons play them horizontally (a.k.a. as part of harmony, as blocks of chords). Here, Mengelberg plays them vertically (contrapuntally, with regards to each voice, instead of chords, blocks), as does every single performer worth a damn. For example, Cortot's 27/1 has more counterpoint simply due to natural rubato of the right hand, by which he delays melody, see 01:12https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XW7LTvH6POE>>129212048Garbageslopper detected.
>old = good, new = bad>the older the gooder, the newer the badderI hope that one day you will have the confidence you to form your own opinion and not simply parrot the most contrarian takes you can know.
>>129212087im not going to listen to anyone who posts 2012-level meme images like that one
>>129212095Garbageslopper moment
>>129212095>>129212095Normally I agree with you, and I do like some newer choral Bach recordings, but in this case, they literally do not perform the works the same way anymore, and haven't for decades, so it's an understandable opinion.
It's time to properly listen to Schnabel's Beethoven set, the only true old school except Backhaus and maybe Arrau (who's slow and chordal, a failed successor of Liszt/Beethoven in my view). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94Koc8jQAcw&list=OLAK5uy_nAhCN3XyQsr1XcnT0CcI8xtOF_pbPW2KQ&index=1>>129212162Don't bother with the uber-tourist, he literally listens to popslop.
New Mahler 9 hot and fresh out the kitchen.
I take all this effort to post new and different Beethoven piano sonata cycles every other day and some of y'all still be listening to Schnabel, bakahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXDa2wtddxk&list=OLAK5uy_leivrAoqWaA5D9TQ6OfHBP_c7v6Li-FcA&index=63
>>129212228>JurowskiOh shit, nice, thanks for the shout. His 2nd, 4th, and 8th are great.
>>129211528Yes yes, listen to norseposter here, the man who said "Most of Bach is audibly lowbrow, as there is nothing more vulgar and plebian than the church. Goldberg Variations and Art of Fugue however, are aristocratic.", surely he knows what is good for Bach and what is not.The black metal obsessed spammer who hates all of the Baroque, but pretends to like Bach, yet can only listen to ironically enough "vulgar" romantic reditions of Bach's music, despite that having nothing to do with how he would actually have wanted it played.>Am I wasting time here on /classical/ with bunch of tasteless low IQ plebs?I think its more like /classical/ wastes time on your tasless low IQ takes and spam-a-thons.>>129212095Norse poster was like this for his entire posting time on /metal claiming only le old black metal was good,, so its highly unlikely to change now.
>>129212298thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129212106He just copy pastes them from youtube, aka where he gets all his opinions from.
>>129212298No one gives a fuck go back to >>>/metal/
>>129212328thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129212338True, norseposter should return to pytten posting and heiling hitler on /metal/ instead of spamming this general with garbage takes. https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/125560522/#q125565850>>129212327>>129212350You're welcome metalsister.https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/125560522/#q125565850Is Heks VERTICAL or HORIZONTAL btw?
guys, can we not
>>129212386thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129212386The only one posting about /metal/ is you. You're a disgrace.
Where to start with Rimsky-Korsakov's operas?inb4>don't
>>129211987>It's not for morons and philistines (99.99% of classical listeners)Ah of course, because you are not part of the 99.99%, instead you are apart of the black metal listerners. Based norsetourist. https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/120599920/#q120600239>Objectively (and verifiably),the most historically accurate BachMaybe in your delusional black metal tard mind would romantic style performances would be appropriate for Bach, but then again, what would you care? You have indeed called all of Bach "lowbrow vulgar church garbage". Thank you for the dogshit takes, sister.
>>129212437thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129212413We enjoy bringing up Norsetourist's past here, because ultimately every opinion he has is the exact same as he had before, "old good new bad", you've seen it time and time again, only now its slathered ontop of copypasted youtube opinions he gets from channels like >>129212328Not even just from /metal/ alone, I mean hes spent a good chunk of time here shit talking the baroque period, shittalking anything that isn't GB varations/AoF from Bach, yet also wants to pretend like hes in the knowledge of what Bach ought to sound like (exactly the same as his romantic era Chopin, which he clings to because of some synth player in a black metal band said he was influenced by Chopin).The opinions and posts are embarrassing, and worst of all, are not even truly his own, just pasted into his mind by the youtube algorithm.
>>129212494the worst part is you can tell by his style of humor/banter that he is around 19
>>129212494thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129212494I don't care. Fuck off back to >>>/metal/
>>129212519He tends to just get stuck around one idea that someone feeds him and runs it into everything, in the past it was this all encompassing obsession with "Pytten" and he would defend and worship literally anything he touched no matter how shite it was, "natural production" and yet even when you showed him modern bands with better production he really didn't care at all, total one track mind dedicated to old good new bad. Now its just Chopin everything, everything has to be played as if its Chopin, literally no nuance at all, just braindamaged regurgitation of youtube memes. Maybe he has a slight touch of legitimate autism (not 4chan "autism", but the real kind), its very tiring to read him sometimes. The only person left still retarded enough to take his youtube copypaste seriously is the NaiveIdiot who also did the same for sisterspammer, I believe NaiveIdiot is a woman and basically have no real opinions of anything, they just tour through endless different performances reading reviews that say nothing. Offers no real resistance to any schizophrenia posted to them, just asks them to post more deranged garbage for whatever reason.
>>129212743hey the dude basically became one with the piano, like some hero from greek mythology (in the cynical christian reading...) respect the chopin
Digging through some Feinberg, not expecting much as he sounds a lot like later Scriabin, which I've fallen out of favor of, although he has a bit of a Bartok/Scelsi/Ornstein bite to him which Scriabin never did. Which might be a nice piece of the puzzle to give a bit of direction to Scriabin's meanderings late works. Doesn't really have a lot of different performances to pick from, even Hamelin only did the first 6 sonata. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dypU68qnMRU
>>129212743thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129212964thank you comically imbecilic metalslopper
>>129212957Chopin has his own unique style entirely separate from the Germanic school, which is respectable on its own right, but has no place outside of the fluttery and ephemeral French scene he heavily influenced (and I guess also Scriabin). The problem is Norseposter's mind cannot comprehend the idea of differing methods for different music, you do not play Bach as if it is Chopin, nor Haydn, nor Beethoven. He just searches for a singular quote that might suggest playing in a "song-like" method, and then uses it to justify copypasting his usual HORIZONTAL BELCANTO COUNTERPOINT slogans over and over again. Chopin is literally praised for being one of the few pianists to NOT take huge influence from Beethoven (really also Haydn, but for some reason people pretend like Beethoven wasn't taking a huge amount from Haydn).Personally I think Chopin and Liszt are both ok, but unless you really like the French school then Chopin is just a side note, and Liszt is for the most part of no real interest unless you like late French/Wagnerian harmony. I think they have some enjoyable miniatures, but almost every composer does, neither one could offer a set of well crafted works of even medium length.
>>129213075interestingI'm not really into piano music (ain't the piano more of a tool for composers?) but I do enjoy Liszt's late works
For tonight's opera performance, we listen to Rimsky-Korsakov's Sadko conducted by Valery Gergiev.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hoZKjWWCU8&list=OLAK5uy_nyewjjxpqzg1dPQgD05_2V9E5juI4SiGc&index=19>Sadko is a shimmering fairy tale of an opera, featuring Rimsky-Korsakov's gift for tone-painting and orchestral coloring at its most splendidly developed, with many lovely tunes to beguile the ear. This live recording suffers at times from thumpings occasioned by the staging, and from a few rough patches in the choral work, but it gains from the Kirov's legendary ensemble work. The huge and able cast is headed by Vladimir Galusin's heldentenorish Sadko, a troubadour who becomes the richest man in Novgorod; and by soprano Valentina Tsidipova's beguiling Volkhova, the Sea-King's daughter. This is opera as storytelling and escape, and very pleasant storytelling it is. --Sarah Bryan Miller
>>129213075>Personally I think Chopin and Liszt are both ok, but unless you really like the French school then Chopin is just a side note, and Liszt is for the most part of no real interest unless you like late French/Wagnerian harmony. I think they have some enjoyable miniatures, but almost every composer does, neither one could offer a set of well crafted works of even medium length.I don't understand how you can consider composers as influential as Chopin and Liszt as a 'side note' or of 'no real interest'. Their influence in harmony and form goes far, far beyond their specific cultural and historical environments. Is your reasoning really only because they, on the whole, wrote shorter works? That's an abysmally retarded justification for denigrating a composer and it's not even true, just think of Liszt's tone poems and oratorio.
Listen to Malcolm Arnoldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21ci-mSDAtY
now playingstart of Debussy: Estampeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8HA9bJbN3o&list=OLAK5uy_lz1j0XFQJVJoAh4FawlyRnaKkYyRrhhvw&index=2start of Debussy: Imageshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB-_R5t-PoU&list=OLAK5uy_lz1j0XFQJVJoAh4FawlyRnaKkYyRrhhvw&index=5start of Debussy: 12 Etudeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68fgZlmSj4M&list=OLAK5uy_lz1j0XFQJVJoAh4FawlyRnaKkYyRrhhvw&index=10https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lz1j0XFQJVJoAh4FawlyRnaKkYyRrhhvwAs always with Craig Sheppard, the interpretation and performance are distinctive, and ignore the awful album cover.
>>129213142The piano is a composer's best friend because it can play polyphony and polyrhythm in one instrument, as an instrument its not as expressive as strings are, and also can't emulate the human voice to any real degree due to being percussive plus without vibrato. Its very good for staccato chordal work though (the exact opposite of Chopin and what Norseposter spams all day), I don't think any other instrument really matches it in that regard, not even close really. >>129213235Chopin was very influential... on the French school, and I said "unless you really like the French school then Chopin is just a side note", if you really enjoy that French school then sure he will be much more important to you. If you don't really care for it, then yes he would just be a side note for you, since he doesn't really have standout long forms, strict forms worth listening to, contrapuntal mastery, orchestral skills, or really any major composer indications. He's just the fluttery piano guy who made effete tunes that are enjoyable and influenced the French scene into its color focused playing heavily. >Liszt's tone poems and oratorio.Liszt certainly had more hope than Chopin, but his theme transformations and breaking of form lead to lacklustre fragmentary or whimsical compositions, only fueled by structure that relies not on musical necessity, but from outside poetry. Liszt to me is an ideas guy, he crafted some unique harmonies, some unique ideas (theme transformation), but was never a great composer himself. And from what I've read, it seems like he believed it of himself, I believe he was always very worried that he spent all his time performing instead of focusing on composition, and lacked the same strength in that.
>>129213306>myancestor.jpg
>>129212228It's a pretty bad recording.
>>129213367>If you don't really care for it, then yes he would just be a side note for youExcept his influence extends to Liszt and a million other composers. How new are you that you think Chopin's influence ends with French composers and maybe Scriabin? Your 'indications' of a major composer are utterly arbitrary. Your opinion of Liszt is also ridiculously subjective. 'lacklustre' and 'whimsical' are not serious criticisms. I've never heard of a great composer or musician or musicologist that agreed with your evaluation, because it's so childish. For example, the claim that the structure of Liszt's tone poems can only be appreciated with a program... it's like you just read the wikipedia page about programmatic music. Do you also think Wagner's music requires 'outside poetry' to be appreciated? Chopin and Liszt were both harmonic and formal geniuses and their innovation alone ensures that they are major composers that need to be studied.
Liszthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8dvw1kzgsg
>>129213537>a million other composers.Who and by how much? Everyone likes to say they were influenced by Beethoven, but very few seem to actually showcase in any large manner. Are we counting mere lip service, a few performances? Or are we actually listening to the music and judging for ourselves if any Chopin is there?>Your opinion of Liszt is also ridiculously subjective>I've never heard of a great composer or musician or musicologist that agreed with your evaluationAnd "your" opinion is fallacious, based on an appeal to authority, not your own thoughts. >For example, the claim that the structure of Liszt's tone poems can only be appreciated with a programNo one claimed that, I'm sure many people appreciate Opera without the libretto, there are many stupid people in this world, and I would certainly never claim there are not. Now if you asked me if I would claim that Liszt's form should not be appreciated with or without his poetry, I would say yes to such a claim.>Chopin and Liszt were both harmonic and formal geniusesAs yes, the inventor of the prelude without actually being a prelude to anything... certainly its one kind of genius to create such a form indeed.
Bach and Before, Ives and AfterA little bit of Grieg, Russian 5, and Chabrier, with a dash of Franck and Late LisztAnd you get a patrician concoction of platonically moral music that soothes the soul and puts the passions at rest and the spirit in balance
>>129213939where wagner?
>kid, I've gone from one side of this country to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe in root progressions. It's all a lot of part-writing, closes, and embellishments.
Greatest fantasia ever written?
What do we think of Karol Szymanowski?
>>129214314gay but still a decent composer.
>>129214314Pederast.
>>129214012>*Only OG's will get that one
>>129214826recommend me some Canadian classical music.
>>129214856Only Colin Mcphee, but that's because he sounded like minimalists in the 1930s.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAm0Rvz9ESI&list=RDPAm0Rvz9ESI&start_radio=1
>>129214938>minimalistI'll pass.
>>129215004Credit where credit is due, I appreciate all types of innovators even if I'm no the biggest fan of the said style.
>>129215097minimalism is fucking gay. please don't post here again.
>>129215166Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I hate it, but an innovator is still an innovator you fucking dip
>>129215216and a poor excuse is a poor excuse.
For tonight's opera, we listen to Debussy's Pelléas et Mélisande conducted by Claudio Abbado and performed by the Vienna Philharmonic (streaming service didn't have the Karajan recording).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdaE3LCMypk&list=OLAK5uy_k8twHBvXxZZKN4ohiAoMtL68bm9mtn4U8&index=1>On paper, this recording is not necessarily promising. Neither Claudio Abbado nor the Vienna Philharmonic is noted for Debussy, and the enigmatic sense of restraint required by the role of Mélisande would not seem right for the hyperdramatic Maria Ewing. Nonetheless, this is among the best modern recordings available. The mysterious story of two lovers with questionable pasts drawn to each other with equal parts telepathy and sexuality is interpreted by Abbado with great confidence and rhythmic animation. Ewing channels her dramatic sense into a performance of great intensity and specificity, but in keeping with the opera's dreamy atmosphere. Other singers are old hands at their roles, with François Le Roux as Pelléas and Jose van Dam as Golaud. And in a bit of luxurious casting, Christa Ludwig sings the brief role of Genevieve with the French language bringing out a softness in her voice that's welcome to anyone who has spent decades hearing her sing in German. --David Patrick Stearns
>>129215097damn I can't stop watching this gif
Is the metal guy here Are there any guitarists (electric) that hold their instrument vertically like a classical guitarist
whats that song that plays in mr bean where he sings in church
>>129215835Metal is almost always played standing up, so not often (or at least there is no footage of them sitting and playing), but there is a fretless bassist that I know who does and he's the best player in the genre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JVSI10mquk
Thoughts?Liszthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIrYL_vJUpY&list=OLAK5uy_m3NU_y5riphTs13fI-enucJgOvxl64S74&index=2Scriabinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJR07HKlbIQ&list=OLAK5uy_m3NU_y5riphTs13fI-enucJgOvxl64S74&index=2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6tV8QRBaXU&list=OLAK5uy_m3NU_y5riphTs13fI-enucJgOvxl64S74&index=3
>>129215929>PogorelichListening! We love his Skrjabin fourth here, although his 2nd is less convincing. We prefer Pogorelich in more forceful compositions, not Chopin French style where one need a lighter touch, delicacy, and subtlety. As for the Liszt section:Not listening!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rDGc69FQcY
>>129216208Lovely.
Since sound wave is a naturally occurring phenomena in the universe then chances are that the alien life if there exist any, could possess an analogous organ to the human ear, imagine what would happen if we manage to make contact with the aliens in due time, just what will we show them? A bunch of naked feminists on the streets shouting "feel the nipple" or a furry rally passing through the streets of moscow or a bunch of angry bigotted chuds fighting meaningless battles online? How will we introduce them to our culture?We will show the aliens true "Human Excellence". Our mastery of art and music. We will show them "Wagner".This is it. The end. The peak. The Finale.https://youtu.be/J8UzmAgGdlU
>>129216296are you still upset with Sagan putting Bach on the golden records instead of Bach?
https://youtu.be/P3vJMlC9l54wish i could find this full recording
>>129212095Who specifically are you talking about? On its own, your comment is vague and doesn't really make sense.
>>129216296What if aliens only had 1 ear lol
I'm a pleb I know but is there anything similar to this kind of music? I think its called classical guitar or something. I'm trying to expand my horizonshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey8-WZIW69A
>>129216467fuck off and die.
>>129216431>On its ownWell luckily for you there are a bunch of preceding posts that give mine context.
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xd-6sRg4F1A
>>129216539Unluckily for you, I don't see anyone blindly saying "old = good, new = bad" just for the sake of it. People have their legitimate reasons for believing stuff like that and they have arguments. The most contrarian take you can actually know is thinking "old = good, new = bad" = bad outright and not hearing people out.
>>129212095I dont think we have properly heard very old music so there is a chance it is far better than we have today
>>129216575Metalsloppers are literally doubel digit IQ, don't expect much common sense from them.>>129216610We have. There are recordings of Liszt's students playing Beethoven just as Czerny (and by extension, Beethoven himself) intended it. Which is the same tradition of Anton Rubinstein, Chopin, Mozart, and so foeth. Burying your head in the sand instead of simply stating your preferences is a certified loser behavior.
>>129216467Try this, its Spanish folia.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Frq7rjEGzs
>>129213939Ives is fucking shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M0boaBa6QM
>>129216575>I don't see anyone blindly saying "old = good, new = bad" just for the sake of it.Thats exactly what Norseposter (the person whose comments you were reading as context) does, and I can prove it since its the same as what he did in metal: https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/121933285/#q121935228You're just blind, guy has a literal history of being this way, and his entire worldview stems from reading a single book by Dutton about lowering IQ levels in the western world, which is how he justifies the "old good new bad" in every single regard that he spams it in (although it gets him in trouble like with his defence for Shubert's solo music, which only became well regarded after the period in which "IQs dropped"). >>129216639>Metalsloppers are literally doubel digit IQ, don't expect much common sense from them.Indeed you are Norseposter, indeed you are.
>>129211528It is almost Easter!
>>129217269
NEU:>>129217269 >>129217269 >>129217269
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWFwfF9iTs4&list=OLAK5uy_k3IouuCPgedge0VB153wZgCozlzkFenQ0&index=12
>>129217285>>129217331We wanted a Kalmbach edition.
which is worse in your opinion? dodecaphony or minimalism?https://strawpoll.com/e7ZJar2GGg3
>>129217386Both are beloved here.
>>129217477>I haven't the time or talentwe know.
What's Callas singing here?https://youtu.be/vyBPZY8oMl8?t=316
>*chair creaks*>"Horowitz can't play octaves—he fakes them.">"deee dummm doooo deee">*violin plays in the background of your most legendary recording*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPy8QoCK_oI
>>129217590Youtube algorithm slop.
>>129217653Can you answer the question?
>>129217676I did, it's Ponchielli, but the imbecile you replied to deleted it>>129213367The same imbecile above
>>129217685>the imbecile you replied to deleted itWhat, is he a janny? Why would your helpful comment get deleted?
>>129217676Your fellow youtubeslop enjoyer already did.
>>129217691>What, is he a janny?Some say janny, others say a mod, personally I prefer to simply be called "God".
>>129217691Because he's seething at being called out for the popslopper he is (and will keep doing so until March 31st)
>>129217699>he's seething at being called out for the popslopper he isIsn't that yourself when you were reveiled to be a black metal tard to everyone here https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/129158941/#q129159013 and decided to spam the general endlessly in a fit of asshurt over it? Then you cry about a janitor deleting your spam, as if anyone wants to read your metaltard garbage. I mean how many deleted spam posts are in this thread alone? Probably over a hundred. Maybe you should take the hint, Iass.
dead thread. dead genre.
>wake up, see some reply notifications to my posts>it's just spamsad
>>129207756“Unwashed salad bowl” kills the credibility of this entire graphic.
>>129217725Just another norseposter metaltard meltdown I'm afraid.
>>129217726pleb.
the Vagner meme
>>129217749
NEU:>>129217749>>129217749>>129217749
>>129217348oh yes
