Chad Schumann editionhttps://youtu.be/z1PQrwsZdPcThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>129736732
>>129758802I love it but wouldn't know what to tell you. It'd take knowing you on a personal level to know what it is that's not working for you. It's just a great piece of modern music. How do you feel about Nielsen's 3rd, Elgar's 2nd or Vaughan William's London Symphony?
>Schumann>died of syphilis complications, acquired from a prostitute>Schubert>died of syphilis, likely due to being promiscuous homosexualCouldn't they just conpose instead? Were they stupid?
>>129758923They did compose, anon, that's why you know about them on the first place
>>129758923>likely due to being promiscuous homosexualNo, it was also a prostitute. He was cajoled into doing it by one of his bros. First and last time he got laid, too.
god imagine all you could get away with in the early 19th century if you only had penicillin
>>129758946I think it's obvious he was gay and had an affair with one of his "bros".
>>129758997I believe that in your heart of hearts you believe that, anon. I know how important representation is for you.
>>129759044Homosexuality is more common than some of us seem to think, and denial & bias is even more common, whereas representation is nonsense. Looking at sources it's clear to anyone that he was likely a gay man.
>>129759073>Homosexuality is more common than some of us seem to thinkYeah uh I think you're just gay nigga
>>129759073>it's clear to anyone
>>129758923sex is way better than composing
>>129759432Sex is just an instant gratification, you're a major pleb.
>>129759507t. seething incel
>>129759507Trvke
>>129757696Nice, I'm jealous. Was it paired with anything?
>>129759507Based and true.Can someone recommend me some Handel played on an harpsichord?
>>129758802Took a while for Sibelius' symphonies to click for me. On the flip, not everything is for everyone. Like I always say, realizing Sibelius is basically doing Tchaikovsky+Bruckner helped me understand his works a lot better.
If sex is an instant gratification to you, you're probably suffering from premature ejaculation and should see a doctor about it
>we have Chopin at home
>>129759636More like Bruckner+Strauss>>129759649But anon that's not Chopin, that's Scriabin
Webern's Variations for piano Op. 27 has the power to change the world
>>129759507this is the funniest way someone has accidentally outed themselves as a virgin lmao
>>129759692why doesn't it
>>129759707Lack of exposure
>>129759713it is powerless then
>>129759649Looks like a nice recording.>>129759692Favorite performance?
>>129759707>>129759720>t. severe autism music is powerless to help your condition
>>129759722not him but my favorite is definitely Pollini
>>129759730I don't have a condition, Webern's Op 27 has no power, and you have no point in life
>>129759649Yeah, Chopin but with testosterone.
>>129759722Richter, naturally.
>>129759757Correct.
Glenn Gould. Your honest opinion.
>>129759836I can see why many find his performances transcendent. I can see why some would hate him. On the whole, better than his usual reception here would have you believe, but anyone who says "this is the only Bach you need" can be readily dismissed.
>>129759836eccentric. tasteless. pseudo-intellectual. obnoxious. narcissistic.
I learned to finally appreciate and love Schumann's Scenes from Goethe's Faust (Szenen aus Goethes Faust). Now it's time to try and do the same for his Das Paradies und die Peri.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKqxNIK0YKk&list=OLAK5uy_ne1aiIqYM-kMgu_jTMJYPH4jnNIRMHOp0&index=1They're basically concert operas.
>>129759836It is entirely pointless to listen to a recording with him in it unless literally no one else has recorded that piece. Obscenely overrated, not nearly as insightful or clever as he presents himself to be. Absolute mess of a man. Weird and annoying. Made into a cult figure by the recording industry. RYM-tier, honestly.
Recommended Handel recordings? Played on an harpsichord or organ.
If you were a composer, in what form do you think your magnum opus would be in?For me, probably some ~45 minute string orchestra piece, like Schoenberg's Transfigured Night (for string orchestra).
>>129760058https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=864ooCM4cO4&list=OLAK5uy_njPfqJn4Av753_n7utttND4k4s7W8_Cg4&index=1She has more volumes if you like this.
>>129760073some tone poem about 15 min. long or a large-ish chamber piece like an octet
>>129760094>or a large-ish chamber piece like an octetThis makes me want to try and find some contemporary octets, see what they sound like now. Enescu's might be the most recent one I've heard!
>>129760092Do you have any played by a man.
>>129759836He's got a silky touch that others don't. But his humming and chair nosies are definitely annoying.He was a narcissist for sure but he seemed to genuinely appreciate and support those that he loved (Schoenberg, Bach, Brahms, etc)
>see post asking for recommendations for a piece I don't even listen to>look up recordings and have to spend time and effort comparing reviews and samples because, again, I don't actually listen to the works myself>finally give an answer, proud that I've done a good job, and hopefully helped someone out>see reply:>"Do you have any played by a man.">mfw
>>129760106I had in mind a string octet when I posted that, but if you like string+wind octets Hindemith has a great one from 1958https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrXbq1G3imY
>>129760109https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh7X39mPF_s&list=OLAK5uy_nF4IuFQ6q3WchklvihxO-8dNbbNolHFCI&index=1
>>129759757That's Liszt.
>>129760151neat, thanks
>>129760137Sorry I was being a faggot. I listened to the recording you sent and really liked it. Thanks anon.>>129760154Not bad, I don't like the sound of the harpsichord as much, but I like the piece.
>>129760196>Sorry I was being a faggot. I listened to the recording you sent and really liked it. Thanks anon.It's okay, I relish any opportunity I have to compose a post using that picture. And glad to hear :)
>>129760154Actually I didn't just like the piece, it was magnificent! Thanks.
>>129759640>>129759701Sex doesn't have a sonata form, it's literally pop. You're coping.
>>129760283you literally wouldn't know
>>129760283could anyone fathom a more incoherent post
>>129759836still the best interpreter of bach
Fuck last.fm classical tags.
>>129760342that's a terribly sad thing to say
>>129760497serves you right for being around that shit website to begin with
>>129760553The userbase is garbage, but the site is fine.
>>129760566not fine enough, apparently
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yb6ut1qRRa4Doch mein Geheimnis wahrt mein Muuuund...Den Namen tu' ich keinem kuuuund...
>>129760542Name a better interpreter.
>>129760697Help me out here, can you name one that doesn't moan like he's getting his asshole rimmed on every recording he's done? Because that's the better one
>>129760697Hewitt, for starters, if you want a completionist set. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOALKYO7bzU&list=OLAK5uy_mew7jhNlDEffD-0ESex9d6Cp87Y1XmYfk&index=13heavenly, divine, full of splendor
is it a Siegfried-Flying Dutchman-Tristan und Isolde dayorSiegfried-Flying Dutchman-Gotterdammerung dayhmmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Cc0hSryNy4&list=OLAK5uy_lE0CldZ720UPJjjlRQ1Z1iaD52a_UveiA&index=9if I do the latter, that means I can start on a new Ring cycle as soon as tomorrow. but then again it's been a few days since I last heard Tristan...
is it a poop dayor puke dayhmmhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jDcWAWRRHo
So now that the dust has settled, this is the greatest Tchaikovsky symphony cycle of all-time, right?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4IbVEgOIOI&list=OLAK5uy_nDMRAjrCkCyUCxHGPrMLuBeu33aXMcE1o&index=32Sorry Karajan, sorry Ormandy, sorry Jansons. Bichkov, I'm willing to try again and see, but I doubt it's better.
>>129760898>now that the dust has settledI blow on it
>>129760918So it remains up in the air? Ha! Wait, is that where that idiom comes from...
>>129760848today is definitely a Götterdämmerung day
>>129761051ty anonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRezfJn44q4&list=OLAK5uy_mEJ0aOjK1GTUcvtu3FZpuGAhZr2bUFodc&index=183
>>129760898Tchaikovsky's symphonies in my opinion don't lend themselves very well to a unified cycle. Some symphonies demand very different things from conductors and musicians and I don't think there's one combo that can satisfy all the demands
Tchaikovskyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGRXCS5i2Ng
>>129761075While I feel you, some cycles accommodate this delineation by having distinct interpretations of the first half and second half (ex. Muti, Karajan) or they have interpretations that are more sonic and thus work for all (ex. Ormandy). But yes, Jansons performs them all like the first three (taut and classical) and Bichkov and Rostropovich perform them all like the last 3/4 (slow, heavy).
Vasily Petrenko does a good job of accommodating this distinction too imohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu9mMqStTiA&list=OLAK5uy_nAbx8i6iDPxkgpWyE2_V_wpLMjC86VdaI&index=1if you don't like any of Tchaikovsky's first three symphonies, well, anon, I don't even wanna know ya
>you: I just don't know if I believe in God and the objective Good>christ: sigh *summons the platonic form of the Good*>you: :O
>>129761197>platonicfail, cringe, dropped, mogged, shat on and spat on
>>129761212why don't you go immanence your essence elsewhere, aristotelian scum
>>129761231>the world is either platonic or aristotelicironically aristotelic of you, platocuck
>>129761252if Christ literally summoned the Good in front of me, I'd be a Platonist, sure
>>129761258That won't happen so long as you remember to take your meds, friend
>>129761297where do you think this album cover comes from >>129761197
>>129761304Germany, I reckon
Brahmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOO3yB2jk30This set should be in every classical fan's library.
Oscar-Arthur Honeggerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu7NskuYF7Ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2WmIoUeX1chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa5nMSrME-4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PjvRC6OGbohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAl6ZnIDwKEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqSFBwBC0S0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_73erL8o_9whttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4FmuobrUs4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AR8Y8bWFSwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKLcpEF29nQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbTdcWUTV4Ihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Prxyp8EHITohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrDpP0Z2ojEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeqhKYRV7ughttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rocZ_0CayFohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcHHFH1AN_0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qFqUUQx2Lshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ddnp-GHn6Mhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZJm2AEcbzIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vnhPVyMb38https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDy3brfTcIshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQw_xezqK_shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEUGLqJEfJAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpT_I8tjxbQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTd_1GKeQg8https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKYCB3PdLakhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wjT1ycujT4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx8FX5ZtnNMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iphzdVU9kEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLlg0r2wXuIhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZRBxy6onXM
>>129760283Sex is a variation form, or perhaps for some people a march adagio.
>>129762065fugue
>>129762065Sex is clearly a quadrille
>>129762065>This 'cancan' is a playing at love, but only with the most material, the grossest of love's acts. I remember having seen a fairly intelligent writer in Paris fall quite into a temper at the Frenchman's treating his materialistic national dance with so much prudery. Unfortunately he omitted to notice than even in the most impassioned Spanish dance the wooing of love alone is symbolised, whereas in the Parisian cancan the immediate act of procreation is symbolically consummated. After the most loathsome kicks and bounds with which the Parisian celebrates the symbolic sacrifice to Venus, he steps back from the dance, conducts his partner to her seat with a wellnigh old-French gallantry, and refreshes her with orgeat, just as though it were the most respectable of balls.
>>129762065>>129762074a grosse fugue
>>129762255>ballslol
>>129762255>sex is grossfigures
>>129761468For some reason I've always disliked these Decca Duo cover designs. They look like the belong on a box of brand new floppy disks.
>>129762684They're definitely outdated now.
Sex with Lisztian thematic transformations.
Just found out schubert and handel were probably gay. Will the boys think im fruity for listening to them
>>129760167No, Liszt is just Liszt.
Strauss' Tod und Verklärung has the power to save the worldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCs49_kjJic
>>129764383There were no gay people in the 17s. This is a modern world invention. Homosexuality is a mental illness.
>>129764187>Lisztian thematic transformations with sex
>>129764383I have never seen the slightest bit of evidence for Handel or Schubert being gay.
>>129764438There were homosexuals before the common era you idiot. Homosexuality exists in almost every mammal.>>129764504NTA, but you haven't even looked.
I wish more composers had pieces for solo violin.
how's this onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxpSX4AnoZ0&list=OLAK5uy_meB3mwpjqWEdn3VoKZbM-uztbOk_k8wHU&index=1
>>129764548>NTA, but you haven't even looked.What's the evidence? Schubert wrote some letters that demonstrate an enthusiastic friendship (the type that was normal in the 19th century) and there's no documented evidence of Handel ever being romantically interested in anyone. That's not evidence. Also, wasn't Schubert in love with a woman?
>>129764548>Franz Schubert wasn't blessed with happy love. The composer twice experienced deep affection for women who were above him in social status.Yeah, false rumors.
now playingstart of Debussy: Préludes, Livre 2, L. 123https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYXXa44ULMU&list=OLAK5uy_l5ZTsDkGtjKrLCMuI8YY6A3mIGUGnwpkA&index=2start of Debussy: La Mer, L. 109 (Transcribed for four-hand piano)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjTHUs0sKzA&list=OLAK5uy_l5ZTsDkGtjKrLCMuI8YY6A3mIGUGnwpkA&index=13https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l5ZTsDkGtjKrLCMuI8YY6A3mIGUGnwpkA>Debussy: Preludes Livre II La Mer (Alexander Melnikov) Alexander Melnikov is among those pianists increasingly committed to playing the works of the past on the instruments from which they came into being (or could have done so). Thus, it is on an Érard - a 'period' piano - that he performs the second book of Debussy's Préludes, and with the help of Olga Pashchenko, the composer's extraordinary transcription of La Mer.
>>129764700It's a very good Parsifal. Even Wobble Jones doesn't bring it down since by that time she still had technical security in her voice.
>>129764987Thanks. I went with Knappertsbusch 1962. I'll do the Boulez next time. Parsifal is the work I've heard the least recordings of and it seems there are a lot of good ones! I haven't even heard Karajan or Kubelik's yet.
How do we feel about the Chaconne in G Minor? I'm not big into the violin repertoire so I'm just discovering it now but I presume it's very famous and most people here know it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0iB84__atU
Beethovens Erotica Symphony wasnt erotic at all. Do people have better recommendations for erotic pieces?
>>129765123What's not to like?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOxVK0-dQ1E
>>129765130I felt the same way after listening to Strauss' Symphonia Domestica. Apparently there was a sex scene in it but I never heard it.
I seldom drank laudanum, at that time, more than once in three weeks: This was usually on a Tuesday or a Saturday night; my reason for which was this. In those days Grassini sang at the Opera, and her voice was delightful to me beyond all that I had ever heard. I know not what may be the state of the Opera-house now, having never been within its walls for seven or eight years, but at that time it was by much the most pleasant place of public resort in London for passing an evening. Five shillings admitted one to the gallery, which was subject to far less annoyance than the pit of the theatres; the orchestra was distinguished by its sweet and melodious grandeur from all English orchestras, the composition of which, I confess, is not acceptable to my ear, from the predominance of the clamorous instruments and the absolute tyranny of the violin. The choruses were divine to hear, and when Grassini appeared in some interlude, as she often did, and poured forth her passionate soul as Andromache at the tomb of Hector, &c., I question whether any Turk, of all that ever entered the Paradise of Opium-eaters, can have had half the pleasure I had. But, indeed, I honour the barbarians too much by supposing them capable of any pleasures approaching to the intellectual ones of an Englishman. For music is an intellectual or a sensual pleasure according to the temperament of him who hears it. And, by-the-bye, with the exception of the fine extravaganza on that subject in “Twelfth Night,” I do not recollect more than one thing said adequately on the subject of music in all literature; it is a passage in the Religio Medici [I have not the book at this moment to consult; but I think the passage begins—“And even that tavern music, which makes one man merry, another mad, in me strikes a deep fit of devotion,” &c.] of Sir T. Brown, and though chiefly remarkable for its sublimity, has also a philosophic value, inasmuch as it points to the true theory of musical effects.
>>129765197The mistake of most people is to suppose that it is by the ear they communicate with music, and therefore that they are purely passive to its effects. But this is not so; it is by the reaction of the mind upon the notices of the ear (the matter coming by the senses, the form from the mind) that the pleasure is constructed, and therefore it is that people of equally good ear differ so much in this point from one another. Now, opium, by greatly increasing the activity of the mind, generally increases, of necessity, that particular mode of its activity by which we are able to construct out of the raw material of organic sound an elaborate intellectual pleasure. But, says a friend, a succession of musical sounds is to me like a collection of Arabic characters; I can attach no ideas to them. Ideas! my good sir? There is no occasion for them; all that class of ideas which can be available in such a case has a language of representative feelings. But this is a subject foreign to my present purposes; it is sufficient to say that a chorus, &c., of elaborate harmony displayed before me, as in a piece of arras work, the whole of my past life—not as if recalled by an act of memory, but as if present and incarnated in the music; no longer painful to dwell upon; but the detail of its incidents removed or blended in some hazy abstraction, and its passions exalted, spiritualized, and sublimed. All this was to be had for five shillings.
>>129765197>>129765202>opium>opera>t brown's religio medicidamn Quincey was me in a past lifeNice passage, thanks for sharing.
>>129765269iirc there are more descriptions of music in the work, it's well worth reading in full if you're interested.
>>129758874What makes Schumann chad? Seems like a cuck to me.
>>129765942Chad Schumann
What else should I listen to if I like Ode to Joy and Dvoraks Allegro con fuoco?
>>129766183the rest of those symphonies of course!as for particular recordings, I recommend Micheal Gielen for Beethoven's 9th and Riccardo Muti for Dvorak's 9th.
>>129766183Maybe Beethoven and Dvorak symphonies.
>>129766183Skip what was recommended entirely. And instead liste to Beethoven's 3rd, 5th and 7th symphonies preferably in that order. Go with either of the cycles (they're all on youtube): Kletzki with Czech philharmonic, Wand, Karajan
>>129766183Disregard all that stuff the other guys recommended and instead listen to Beethoven's 6th and 8th symphonies and Dvorak's 8th symphony (in the Bernstein & Vienna Philharmonic recordings of course).
>>129766183Don't listen to anyone else in this thread at all and listen to Chopin's ballade no.1, here's the link for convenience:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBRqwbZ7kRM
Henry Cowell
>>129764680This but for cello
>>129759606Some short Purcell choral (Remember not Lord our offences) and Schumann's Nachtlied
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4TQosZe_IM
>>129765978Cuck
>>129766903That would be Mahler, the greatest Austro-German who ever lived. He was profoundly cucked. Schumann is a chad however, his wife played his works until her death, even after he died by fucking other women.
>>129767032>the greatest Austro-German who ever livedThere's at least one (1) is better.
>>129767064Nah. The very next is Schumann and only Schumann. Who isn't strictly better but can be thought of as an equal to Mahler.
>>129766627Dope!
For today's opera performance, we listen to Verdi's Aida conducted by Zubin Mehtahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dm6IIvfeq4g&list=OLAK5uy_n5wUaqTcf9X-uWteXORWX7F_GIhxEHDgQ&index=6
it's pronounced "giuseppe birdy"
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8aM1_ugYu4&list=OLAK5uy_mf8AKPBWF5KXmASboFLbIcqZsCW_4hrCc&index=3>10 years after Seong-Jin Cho's first prize victory in the 2015 Warsaw Chopin Competition, during which the young Korean pianist ascended into stardom with a Deutsche Grammophon discography that includes Liszt, Brahms and Debussy, he prepares a monumentous body of work for the 150th birthday anniversary of Maurice Ravel.
>>129766245ignore this retard
Mendelssohn is good but I don't see why he's viewed as a major composer on the same level as Schumann, Brahms, or Tchaikovsky. He's much closer to Faure to me.
>>129769343Of those three only Brahms surpasses Mendelssohn.
>>129769343Tchaikovsky and Schumann are not even second rate composers you actual, literal retardcomparing them to Mendelssohn is like comparing an 8 year old who has just learned to play the can can on the piano to Mozart
>>129769373>>129769380Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto cancel out Mendelssohn's VC, the piano trios are a wash, and I would take Tchaikvosky's piano concertos+string quartets over Mendelssohn's equivalent pair. The ballets cancel out Mendelssohn's choral works too. From there, Tchaikovsky's symphonies obliterate Mendelssohn's. Schumann is a solo piano God, I needn't say much more than that, because Mendelssohn already can't compete.
>>129769525>Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto cancel out Mendelssohn's VCLOL>Tchaikovsky chamber musicLMAO
>>129769525>Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto cancel out Mendelssohn's VC
>>129769545>>129769553Mendelssohn's VC is a masterpiece but so is Tchaikovsky's...?>>Tchaikovsky chamber music>LMAOHis piano trio is amazing. Since Mendelssohn has two good ones, we'll call it a wash. Yes, Mendelssohn has better string quartets, but let's not sell Tchaikovsky's short, and then you take into account the piano concertos, it really should give Tchaikovsky the slight lead but to be charitable I'll call it even too.
violin concerto rankingsbrahms > tchaikovsky > beethoven > elgar > mendelssohn > dvorak > berg > prokofiev > stravinsky > sibelius > shostakovich > bartok > britten > khachaturian > bruch > barber > schumann > glazunov > saint-saens
>>129769525what a retarded way to measure musical quality.
>>129769331ignore this retard
>>129769628That's not me measuring quality, that's me comparing works to rank the composer behind the music. When you call someone a 'major' or 'top-tier' composer, that's literally what you're doing, comparing them to the others, and while I wouldn't reduce my entire viewpoint to a work-by-work basis, it's a good illustration in this particular circumstance. Better than just going "Tchaikovsky is better, okay!?"
>>129769343>>129769373>>129769380>>129769525You're literally all retarded and wrong.Schumann >>>>> Brahms/Tchai/Mendelssohn (all equally great, just not in the same league as Schumann).Also Mendelssohn's E minor violin concerto absolutely mogs every other VC combined. Even Tchaikovsky's which I absolutely adore.Fuck off and get your hearing checked morons. And read something other than memes, your opinions are under-informed and they suck.
>>129769380Bait used to be believable.
>>129769683I would accept Brahms/Schumann > Tchaikovsky/Mendelssohn > Faure
>>129769699Schumann is literally (literally) the greatest Austro-German next to Mahler, so you can't really put an equal, unless it's Mahler. Brahms/Beethoven/Mendelssohn etc. are a rank below.
>>129769707I refuse to believe that someone would actually unironically think this. This has to be bait.
>>129769727So shut the fuck up you deaf moron.
how about we just be happy we have a nice diversity of opinions in our beloved general.
>>129769745You genuinely need to kill yourself.
>>129769751After you m'lady.
>mfw day of misinformed cucks who still haven't acknowledged the greatest austro-germanYou'll all die painfully.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1js87HCXpcw&list=OLAK5uy_lPuhSjM3rTwZ4Pv84b8rvzLY_HoBczTWg&index=1
>>129769784wtf how did I not know about this work, this is gloriousstill not better than Beethoven but aiight I'll give some props
Revisiting Haitink's Ring and it is rather perfunctory.inb4>of course it's perfunctory, it's HaitinkDebating if I should still listen to the entire cycle or skip to my plans to listen to Janowski's second set with the RSB.
Did this nigga forget that Mozart is Austrian?
>>129769990das wassupdas rheingold
>tfw tonedeaf
>>129769798I posted it in an OP in January so that's on you.
>>129769798>still not better than BeethovenMe when I'm deaf
>>129767032>Schumann is a chad however, his wife played his works until her death She also played a lot of Chopin
This bitch is all like "damn, 5 hours? you kidding me?"
>>129770462Well, every good pianist plays the god of piano.
>>129769784>mfw hurr durr my composer da best !!!shut the fuck up you corny niggers, holy shit. you people can't talk about anything without hyperbole. zero fucking communication skille
>Germans/Austrians>better than anyone after Wagner>actually thinking Schumann or Brucker is goodYou germcels and your delusion of grandeur never fail to make me laugh
>>129770784xd!!! i love froggo!!
Has anyone gotten the ABBADO CUBE? The gigantic 265-disc + novella collection of his work on DG and Decca? How is it?
>>129771458Bizzaro /classical/
>>129771458Looks robust. 265 discs, damn. What's the novellas?
>>129771565Supposedly it includes a 112-page booklet among other items. Not just some afterthought liner notes.
>>129771458who the fuck likes any given conductor enough to get any of these
>>129771647It's not 100% about the conductor, it's a quick way to get presumably quality recordings of all the music too. If you were stuck on a desert island with that set, you wouldn't necessarily have to be a fan of Abbado to have a good time.That said, as you can often see on here, a lot of people are hesitant to try or at least declare any contemporary conductor as being as great as the historical tradition, so those same people, if they're gonna spend money on music, they'd rather buy an Abbado set than whatever new performance comes out this year.
>>129771691funny that in my mind Abbado is a "modern conductor" just because his recordings are in stereo lol
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills the way other people are able to look past the poor sound quality on recordings like this. You look at the Amazon reviews,> The Greatest. Unequaled. Can't imagine it being surpassed, ever!>This is one of the most intense and riveting versions of this opera on disc.>IT WILL LEAVE YOU BREATHLESS AND EXHAUSTED !!when, to me, the orchestra sound is so compressed it sounds like a hive of bees are playing all the instruments. All the great recordings and *this* is the one that blows your mind? I just don't get it, man. Admittedly, the singing is pretty great, I'll give it that, but I don't see myself ever returning to this recording again.
>>129771691>>129771705Yeah I'd barely call Abbado out of the contemporary bracket either.
>>129771647I wonder about that, but it seems like conductor boxes are among the best-selling collections put out by classical labels today. Warner put out a 109-disc John Barbirolli collection a couple weeks ago.
>>129771691Yeah; these collections are massive samplers of different composers and orchestras. The conductor is a common thread, but not necessarily the main point.>CDs 1–4J.S. Bach | Bartók>CDs 5–56Beethoven | Berg | Berlioz | Bizet | Brahms>CDs 57–63Bruckner I>CDs 64–80Bruckner II | Chopin | Debussy | Dvořák | Haydn | Hindemith | Janáček | Kurtág>CDs 81–135Mahler | Mendelssohn | Mozart I>CDs 136–190Mozart II | Mussorgsky | Pergolesi | Prokofiev | Rachmaninoff | Ravel | Rossini | Schoenberg | Schubert I>CDs 191–257Schubert II | Schumann | R. Strauss | Stravinsky | Tchaikovsky | Verdi | Vivaldi | Wagner | Berlin Galas | Jonas Kaufmann | Anna Netrebko |New Year’s Concerts | Schoenberg & Webern |Wien Modern I–III | From the House of the Dead (Janáček)>DVDs 1–8A Russian Night – Lucerne Festival Orchestra, Hélène GrimaudClaudio Abbado in Concert – Wiener Philharmoniker, Maurizio Pollini (2 DVDs)New Year’s Concert 1991 – Wiener PhilharmonikerPeter and the Wolf – Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Roberto BenigniLa Cenerentola – Orchestra e Coro del Teatro alla ScalaIl barbiere di Siviglia – Orchestra e Coro del Teatro alla ScalaFrom the House of the Dead – Wiener Philharmoniker
>>129771711>>129771705People have trust in the older names. They put on an Abbado recording, they can feel secure because "well, it's Abbado, it must be good" versus taking the chance on a new recording from an up-and-comer which runs the risk of the gamut of quality.
it's hard to build a 'brand' in classical. people don't wanna try new composers or new musicians or new conductors. easier to just buy the abbado cube or barbirolli box and pat yourself on the back for being cultured.
Tristan: Kleiber or Barenboim?
should just get the Bernstein brick
Life without Wagner is like a woman without a vagina, "useless".
>>129771842Kleiber
>>129771854most Jewish thing I have ever seen
>>129771860ok I'll try giving Kollo another shot but damn his voice is weird
>>129771880Barenboim's is fine too if you already have a voice preference. But yes on the whole I think the Kleiber is superior.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW-M4-XBujQ
>>129771862
I find it simply impossible to conceive that an interpretation like Carlos Kleiber's is closer to Beethoven's intentions than an interpretation like Eugen Jochum's.
>>129772436neither match his tempo markings so w/e
>>129772436>Beethoven's intentionsstop chasing ghosts
>>129772436Why? Beethoven's metronome markings are pretty plain. Kleiber is way closer to them than Jochum.
>>129772492>>129772547>>129772654If you think Beethoven's metronome markings are consistently accurate to his intentions then you know nothing about his music. It is the job of all great interpreters to chase ghosts.
>>129772913>just ignore the composer bro, I'M the one who's rightkeklmao
>>129772922There are larger artistic qualities for interpreters to be aware of than just what the metronome tells them. It's because of people like you that performances are so shit now.
>>129772975>There are larger artistic qualities for interpreters to be aware of than just what the metronome tells themno shit, good thing there are plenty of performances that respect Beethoven's metronome markings and have all the other bells and whistles
Electronic music is the classical of today.
>>129773172if you're talking about these<----
>>129771710It's a really great performance, but, yes, it's very sonically compromised. R8: >beforehttps://litter.catbox.moe/0b4ufelj8b6l8c37.mp3>afterhttps://litter.catbox.moe/m4tgbsxvdn4f2ul8.mp3
>atonal music>still sticks to 12TETWhere is the atonal music that actually uses the full spectrum of sound
>>129773478The word you're looking for is "microtonal."
>>129773538That's pretty irrelevant, most microtonal music uses tonal centers.
>>129773457Nice, orchestra actually has some color and detail in yours!
>>129772436how is that our problem?
>>129772975tempo is by far the most important aspect of any interpretation
>>129758874No
>>129774071And that's why we should ignore Beethoven's metronome markings.
>>129774267if you are retarded, deaf, and hate music, maybe
all I know is I like my Beethoven to sound closer to Brahms than Mozart/Haydnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5wCfYfwwh4&list=OLAK5uy_ni8-dQCGVsAYpGKG_t1FYt7MyUIAxfN9k&index=5
>>129774294Yeah man, it's the hundred years of Beethoven performance tradition that was deaf, not you.
>>129774321it could have been a billion years and it would've still sucked. how long someone was wrong for doesn't matter to me, only that they were wrong.
>>129774295that might imply that you prefer Brahms over Mozart/Haydn, which in turn implies retardation.
>>129774336In art, traditions matter, not your autistic obsession with being right.
>>129774340>traditions matt-no
>>129774340Appeal to tradition is a fallacy
>>129774344Art is impossible without tradition.>>129774405I'm not appealing to tradition.
What is the single greatest composition for solo violin?
>>129774455Bach Chaconne in D minor obviously
>>129774455yeah it's the chaconnehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJvYYBGYW50?si=wWDVpeDjAIHJy-Mb
>>129774476>>129774531I specifically asked that question expecting something other than the Chaconne. Is there really nothing else that comes close?
>>129774428>I'm not appealing to traditionYou just did >>129774340
Violins sound terrible
>>129774567There just aren't that many solo violin pieces.
>>129774581Saying traditions matter is not the same thing as saying a tradition is right by virtue of being a tradition. You don't know what a fallacy is.
>>129774671>saying a tradition is right by virtue of being a traditionthat's what you believe when it comes to shitty Beethoven performances though
>>129774671You're a fucking moron who doesn't even read definitions of terms you're not familiar with>The appeal to tradition fallacy (argumentum ad antiquitatem) occurs when an idea or practice is claimed to be correct, valid, or better simply because it has been followed for a long time.You are literally arguing that something is correct because of le tradition. You have provided zero (Z E R O "0" null) arguments that wasn't appealing to tradition. Drown yourself in piss cocksucker.
>>129774684>>129774710I never said that. As far as arguments are concerned, no one in this conversation has provided any, neither you, nor me, nor your gay buttbuddy. Learn to read, retard.
>>129774730>learn to read>still doesn't realize that his own argument was appealing to traditionlol. lmao
What makes Bach so great? It seems like one of those things were it insists upon itself
>>129774964the same that makes any art great: a high degree of expressiveness through tastefully applied skills
>>129774964He gave birth to a great composer.
>>129774964Divine inspiration.
>>129774964He was a mediocre composer who autistically excelled at counterpoint.>>129775080>no piano, orchestral music>solo violin, but completely lacking in expressive marking>high degree of expressivenessKill yourself. Again, kill yourself.>>129775171Divine dildo up his ass.
>>129774964Google it. People have been spilling ink about what makes Bach great for centuries now. If you can't figure it out: don't bother, stfu, and just listen to something else.
>>129774340pretty sure the tradition of conducting you're talking about was largely invented by Wagner so it's hardly some deep-rooted practice informed by Beethoven himself
>>129774339>that might imply that you prefer Brahms over Mozart/Haydn, which in turn implies retardation.damn how did you know I was based
>>129774567You could try and learn to love Paganini's 24 Caprices. It's not for me but it's supposed to be a solo violin masterpiece.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpMdRhFpGSs&list=OLAK5uy_n4MMi3LNxheuBHTo3U4zYUgaDhwTERE2M&index=11then of course there's Bartokhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiHfzKVjMDQBut yes, Bach's six works are revered for a reason, and their quality no doubt played a major part in why no one else really bothered with the form because they felt they could not measure up. Same reason why no one but Britten ever wrote any Cello Suites -- why bother when Bach already conquered the form? so they turned to the duo (piano accompaniment) sonata form instead
>>129775354>>129774567Reger wrote solo cello suites. There's also Ysaye for solo violin sonatas.
It's timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s377dgAL0A&list=OLAK5uy_kq2ynfC2d8bEst8WMeV74u5etJSYfYJiM&index=5current Ring cycle backlog: Zweden, Boulez, Goodall, Bohm (all revisits except for Goodall, which is also in English!)iffy on whether I want to listen through the extremely orchestrally flawed Knappertsbusch 1956. At this point I'm leaning toward no because there's such a wealth of well-performed cycles with top-notch sound quality, I don't really see the point to compromise on sound quality.then once that's done, I will revisit Karajan and Solti
>>129775367I forget about Reger's, only listened to them once. And I never could get into Ysaye's solo violin pieces. I know a lot of people love them but meh, not for me. You're right though, it's essential listening if one wants solo violin.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz71f4cCNSA&list=OLAK5uy_k4FRr-F9xxO4stkM4ICrKmgDlH1Zy69XY&index=1>>129774455>>129774567
>>129774964He influenced Schumann.
>>129774964What makes Bach great is what makes Mendelssohn great If Mendelssohn insists upon Bach, then it is not himself
>>129774964If you don't like the opening prelude of the first cello suite, if you don't like the opening aria of the Goldberg Variations, if you don't like the opening Kyrie eleison of the Mass in B minor, then you might not even be human, anon
and I suppose to a modern eye, Bach's music, like all baroque art, could be considered to 'insist upon itself', but what else do you expect from expert and awesome representations of the divine? it's just mastery of craft.
>>129774964>insists upon itself >>>/mahler/
wtf who do these renaissance/baroque artists think they are, insisting upon itself and assuming i'm gonna feel the sublime when looking at this. fuckin' pretentious!they were right but that's besides the point
yeah this opening prelude of the first cello suite is some of the best music i've ever heard but i don't like how it sounds like it knows how good it is, who the fuck does this bach character think he is!? he thinks he's better than me!?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKbrty2x8rM&list=OLAK5uy_nFPO3ImIXC-I74ZFZYSwVsJXMKlRPBjYE&index=1
>>129775206>no orchestral musicwhy do people who factually known jack shit about what they are talking about even come here?
Bruckner 9 or Mahler 9?
Favorite set of Bach's piano concertos? Chailly/Bahrami? Hewitt? Haebler? Schiff? David Fray? Gould!?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWiuSfWEpZs&list=OLAK5uy_nDCXZy_VN93v8gZ3yE4lzG1zBqZuyjbGA&index=4This is a random one I just found to post, so this isn't my pick, but might be worth checking out.
>>129775604Mahler but I wouldn't be upset if someone picked Bruckner's 9th instead.
>>129775604I like Bruckner's 9th a little better
>>129775604I probably like Mahler as a composer more overall, but I think Bruckner 9 between those two.
>>129775571They are chamber-sized, basically chamber music. Not even comparable to real orchestras of the classical/romantic period.
>>129775604Mahler.
I'm surprised more anons here don't rate Pollini's Beethoven piano sonatas cycle as their favorite.4thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Apskq7wIhi0&list=OLAK5uy_kEggyWYCrxEopdQsj_AwdkN28O7Ss2T-o&index=1417thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxyK0hd7i9g&list=OLAK5uy_kEggyWYCrxEopdQsj_AwdkN28O7Ss2T-o&index=5923rdhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-87b0V8Fgpw&list=OLAK5uy_kEggyWYCrxEopdQsj_AwdkN28O7Ss2T-o&index=7526thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV1WviIhrdY&list=OLAK5uy_kEggyWYCrxEopdQsj_AwdkN28O7Ss2T-o&index=8328thhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRW9aCHE14k&list=OLAK5uy_kEggyWYCrxEopdQsj_AwdkN28O7Ss2T-o&index=91It's a little too middle-of-the-road to rank as one of my favorites but if I were limited to only this set for the rest of my life for these pieces, I wouldn't be too upset.
>>129775400>DiRing Nibel
it's pronounced "scriabi" :3
>>129775605>Wang lol
Schuberthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6khpZA4jnc&list=OLAK5uy_mr2M9ZPzTWv7WrPh7mElVcych5wMbw9Ts
>>129761859Alright, I'm ready to start digging into this now, thanks much.
>Chief conductors>Eugen Jochum (1949–1960)>Rafael Kubelík (1961–1979)>Sir Colin Davis (1983–1992)>Lorin Maazel (1993–2002)>Mariss Jansons (2003–2019)>Sir Simon Rattle (2023–present)unmatched roster?
>>129776255it's only downhill after Kubelik tho
>>129775605Anything Bach is always Gould. But otherwise Hewitt if you don't like him.
Surprise me with a nice Chopin concerto recording, I think I've listened to all the big ones at this point.If you do rec, don't bother with anything from the past 30 years, I'm not interested.
>>129758874Based or cringe, call it.
>>129777731>Schumann Cringe >Bernstein Based
>>129777790Oh, is this the opposite day?
>>129777692It's great no matter the quality.
>>129777816???
>>129777803No, this this is just fantasie.
>>129777692https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjVu8mz0tO4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQgso74jvG4
>>129777897I am well familiar with both of those, and Arrau is boring as fuck. Got anything else?
>>129777924https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuGmGt64IjM&list=OLAK5uy_namc4QZvK2xCkx3VYcqtrEpSWhx5ieLRU&index=2i guess you're familiar with all of em
>>129777995lol this one's interesting, thanks.
>>129777995>>129778002This reminds me of an interesting story I read, Chopin played his concertos for the Rothschilds, arranged for two keyboards, with his favorite pupil who could potentially even become a great composer, but he passed away at the age of 14. I was curious about the arrangement since I read that, but never bothered to look it up.
I'm let down by the crappy soulless performance though. Shall turn it off when the first movement's over.
>>129778121I too listened to Bernsteins Mahler 8
Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PW1urZJXolw&list=OLAK5uy_maEaXiMqip-zEReEQgbE8mag-oLJaqTi0&index=3
This one goes hard, too bad the English classical scene died after thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMJjo_K8gbQ
Fibich String Quartet No. 1 was quite pleasant. I haven't really listened to quartets before.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtiAKFrCmmk
>>129776327not quite; Jansons is far better than Davis, so it's not straight down hill
>>129775604Certainly Bruckner.
>In a 1940 interview Ignaz Friedman stated that he considered Purcell as great as Bach and Beethoven.Thoughts?
>>129780169He's wrong, but Purcell is pretty damn great. The only good English composer, in fact.
>>129780238midcentury type thinking
Abbado's Don Giovanni is such a fucking miracle, holy shit. What a recording.
>>129780169nah, but he is indeed way better than a lot of other composers constantly mentioned here
>>129780844It's very nice. It has a great balance, as opposed to some recordings which have a particular indulgence or flaw.
Wagner does a lot of great shit with his leitmotifs, but my favorite in all of Die Walkure has to be the climax of Sieglinde's hallucination scene, where he mixes the pursuit/flight, Hunding, Sword, and Wälsung motives all in one with some super delicious chromaticism and dissonance. I think Leinsdorf gets it the most correct, the way you can hear Hunding's motif in this one is absolutely haunting, and he actually gets the rhythm of the Sword motif correctly, which many conductors do not. https://litter.catbox.moe/1rsbylh6ps998hjt.mp3 Karajan, Janowski, Neuhold, Furtwangler, and Bohm also do well here.The worst has to be Solti. It's actually laughable how bad his recording mangles this section, considering it's otherwise considered an "audiophile" ring.https://litter.catbox.moe/fdmnrssj1u1qdm3a.mp3
>>129780925That Leinsdorf excerpt is fantastic. I don't know about musically -- I find on re-listens, as I do with most pieces, my favorite parts depend on my mood -- but when actually watching the opera, that's my favorite part for sure, and in fact, Sieglinde looking confused and terrified might be the single most poignant image of the entire thing for me.
>>129780925Solti being chosen for the Decca Ring is an absolute tragedy.
>>129781122imagine the Decca Ring with Leinsdorf conducting and London playing Wotan throughout
Yeah I guess if you're going to play Bach on a Cavaillé-Coll you may as well make your purposes clear by giving it a shitpost for a cover
https://youtu.be/b80Jw8MuZxoShatter...! The spirit of the Black Forest... it will disperse the crude hootenanny of the modern man. How did Wagner do it? He completed history in his art... he discovered the Holy Grail: the Myth of Prometheus which is the enduring affirmation of Life and the Aryan spirit.THE EROS WHICH MAKES WAR ON THE GODS!! CAN YOU "FEEL" IT?
>>129779239What was up with Gould's hardon for Orlando Gibbons
sorry for the additional W post, but I'm listening to the Janowski Tannhauser and wow am I not feeling the lead soprano/Venushttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3kwMGqKXVQ&list=OLAK5uy_kwGcUdoEr9sMWgiCGbiNzqYs7QmWov5JA&index=4This sound good to ya'll?
>>129780169As great but not as prolific
>>129776020Scriabi's Diner
finna travel back in time and force Richard Strauss to compose symphonies at gunpoint
>>129781671why would you expect them to not have the same formal problems as his tone poems
>>129781676Because a tone poem is basically a symphony-without-structure.
new>>129781680>>129781680>>129781680
>>129781685most tone poems do have structure. there's just no conventions about what the structure has to be. there's no reason to think his tendency towards flabbiness wouldn't affect symphonies any less than they did literally everything else he composed.
>>129781671Symphonies are an outdated concept and were in his time.
>>129781698I bet if Sibelius only had his tone poems you'd accuse him of the same!
>>129781717?Sibelius' tone poems aren't flabby at all. Tapiola is practically proto-minimalist and makes a nice complement to the 7th symphony.
>>129781725Anon, I'm trying to make a point.
>>129781729a bad one since Sibelius' tone poems and symphonies evince the unity of his style
>>129781734I'm closing this tab
