Les djinns editionhttps://youtu.be/5_5cHPACGnAThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>130035842
>>130062386I'm going to assume you meant Tchaikovsky 1 and Rach 2. Rach 2 is easier to listen to, and more emotionally powerful, while Tchaikovsky 1 is more musically interesting, and structurally complex. So depends on my mood. If I were ranking them, I'd probably give the edge to... hmm, Tchaikovsky 1 by a hair.
>>130062386I only rank Rach 2, 3, Brahms 2, Beethoven 5, Mozart 20, 23, 24 and Schumann in S tier of piano concertos. Tchaikovsky is good, but not among the best of the best imho. A few reasons I don't like it as much as the S tier concertos: the intro is not related to the rest of the 1st movement, and that alone feels strange. It's also very unpianistic and that affects the music, unlike Rach which sounds as pianistic as Chopin. And the material doesn't justify the length of the first movement - only Brahms 2nd 1st movement from my list is as long, and it's mostly playing around with the beginning horn motif so it feels cohesive, despite having a lot of juxtaposion, it never feels unjustified.
>>130062555>only Brahms 2nd 1st movement from my list is as longOh, Beethoven's Emperor is also as long, but again, it feels more cohesive.
>Leoncavallo—PagliacciA couple of great arias, otherwise decent to mediocre. Lots of auditory antics emulating the circus and its visitors. Mercifully short if you're not entertained.
>You guys should listen to Bob Dylantells you all you need to know about ghoul enjoyers
It's Boccherini time, bitcheshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iQxbY8I2Po
>2 Violins, 2 Violas, 1 Cello>2 Violins, 1 Viola, 2 Cellos>2 Violins, 1 Viola, 1 Cello, 1 Double BassWhich one reigns supreme?
>>1300631192 violins, 1 viola, 1 cello, 1 piano
>>130062799Thought this one was supposed to be a masterpiece?
>>130063151so is the ring cycle
>>130063151It's not bad by any means, just no Verdi. I also got the impression that it would be 10x better if you saw it live.
>>130063156:o -> >:(
woodbird: liszter sisterssiegfried: chopincelshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoI-zKiDBN8&list=OLAK5uy_lF_CjNW0uTQgOyP
>>130062814My guy replying to the voices in his head here
>>130063387lurk more
>>130063393>Bow to and understand my whims How about take your meds
>>130063387retard was replying to someone halfway through the previous thread for some reason
>>130063412bro it's only been one thread, it's only been a couple of hours just lurk more bro you're embarrassing
>>130063151it is, that Anon is just a retard>>130063190it's way better than any Verdi opera (so are most things)
>>130063432>it is [a masterpiece]>better than any Verdi opera (so are most things)
>>130063420Not everyone can afford to be at their computer at all time reeee
>>130063420>for some reasonbecause I felt like it, cuckbrain
>>130063424Do you remember we discussed this? The concept of inner and outer monologues? And which ones other people have access to? If you’re replying to a post you can actually quote or even reply to it -even across threads l!
>>130063489nonsensical reply
What boards would Scriabin like
>>130063561/ck/
>>130063462>I eat shit because I fucking like it, retard!
>>130063651>food analogy
>>130063561who gives a fuck? as a real question
>>130063658>fooddamn you DO eat shit then, it was supposed to be a fucking joke.
>>130063561/mu/
>>130063664Hmph... you wouldn't understand, whelp. The brothers of the Black Cenacle have needs surpassing your "understanding".
Liking Romantic composers such as Wagner, Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Rachmaninoff, and Berlioz is an indication that you are twice-born and possess an Aryan dharma. Active within you is the natural response of the noble being to the hemmed-in domesticity of the contemporary world, the lofty need to seek out an antinomian emergent instinct, the surging wave in the soul that crashes against the barriers of morality and convention. This is also why you love incest.Liking modernist composers like Boulez, Nono, Stravinsky, and Penderecki indicates that you are Anayran and probably have bad karma. The desire to eat excrement is quite common among those with bad karma. You feel comfortable following the rules and expectations of society and think yourself very wise for keeping up with "the times". You are perilously concerned with being perceived as a "midwit" and believe incest is evil and disgusting.
>>130063721k anime tranny
>>130063684>>130063721if you bothered to read either of these you're an idiot
>>130063779Hah...! You think you are supposed to "read", whelp? Grope about in the fryer of Being all you like, hylic: you will find nothing but the hash browns diced up out of your own root vegetable of a brain. Better hurry up! Lord Scriabin has finished his coffee and you best believe the Mad God gets free refills, or else it'll be you who boils!
>>130063664No
>>130063951
>>130064146The ultimate... you have no idea what you're saying about Lord Scriabin, whelp. Continue down this path and you'll feel the heat of my demon left hand searing your insides. Don't tempt the shadows little puppy... LOL!
Yes poster from 9 threads ago you’re right that does sum up Scriabin sisters
>>130064166
>>130064188lol can't let it go can you
>>130064188>>130064193It's clear you whelps won't cease your disrespect towards Scriabin so you may as know the score, not that'd you understand it... Heh, maybe it'll awaken something buried in the one brain cell you primitive dogs share...10,000 years ago, when Earth was embosomed in the clouds of Saturn and Hyperborea flourished at the North Pole, Aryan mystics practiced arts to channel the powers of God-Realization. Five seals of power were consecrated, corresponding to the four elements, while the fifth... that was the Void. Texts of ancient Aryan cultures depict this with exoteric gloss. But it wasn't until Europeans rediscovered the Upanishads that the truth was known... hmph, at least to a select few, beginning with Schopenhauer...Scriabin was the first to reawaken his vril. His sorcery took the form of what we ignorant moderns call "musick". In his last five "sonata" spells, he encoded magick to control reality in each piece. Pretty crazy, yeah? I don't expect common fools to "get it" anymore than I would the so-called "Maria Lettberg" (probably an alias... a saboteur sent to discredit the Brotherhood).That's where I come in...I was reincarnated with the demon left hand that Scriabin wielded. Pay attention, whelp: these are secret techniques of power concealed by the last five sonatas. My left hand speaks forth these words:>Sonata No. 6Reality Cavern: Gaia Crystallization, 1st Emergence Technique, Gravitation Hand>Sonata No. 7Unbound Mare: Flow of Sarasvati, 2nd Emergence Technique, Suction Hand>Sonata No. 8 (dangerous to Lettberg, an Earth Elemental, which is why that bitch ruined it so thoroughly, heh)Meteoric Aureole: Undiscovered Atmosphere, 3rd Emergence Technique, Zephyr Hand>Sonata No. 9Almighty Conflagration: Umbral Incinerator, 4th Emergence Technique, Agni Hand>Sonata No. 10Crystalline Light Absorption: Existence Totality, 5th Emergence Technique, Ruination HandBe grateful I deign to reveal such secrets to DOGS... Disappear!
>>130063721It means you’re Indo-Iranian?
>>130063673LOL
>this entire thread
>>130064222
https://youtu.be/sA7BPdZgxGk?si=RczUkQNm5LnZUgJB&t=487...dass mein Leben ein Ziiieeel haaat...
Don’t Play Twice It’s Alright by Glen Gould
>>130064894nice catch
post ur fav stabat materhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0hDDC49Ll0
>The Five First Great Anglo/Non-European ComposersWhy would Dave make an empty list?
>>1300653255- McPhee4- McPhee3- McPhee2- McPhee1- McPhee
>>130061286>It lessens the contrast between soloist and orchestra, which is one of the appeals of a concerto.What a bunch of horseshit.One of the things that makes Rachmaninoff concerti so good is the integrarion of piano sonority into orchestra. And one of the main weakness of Mozart concerti is that he doesn't do this as often as, say, Brahms, let alone Rachmaninoff.
>>130065357>integrarion of piano sonority into orchestraso original, Rachman
>>130062380Thoughts on Grieg?
>>130065382lurk more
>>130065377Schumann, Grieg and Tchaikovsky did that, but Rachmaninoff perfected it.
>>130065382No one here has ever heard of her.
>>130065413People have been doing that since the days of Field an Dussek, and Rachmaninoff didn't perfect a single thing
>>130065436>Rachmaninoff didn't perfect a single thingYes he did. He perfected the piano concerto form.
>>130065650You are confusing him with Brahms.
>>130065794Certainly not.
>>130065650>>130065828embarrassing
If Wagner was a criminal he’d be called Lagner
>>130065650Certainly not.
>>130063561I can see him being more of a redditor. I don’t think he’d value anonymity very much. He’d probably have his own subreddit
>>130065906>>130065953embarrassing.
>>130066139Certainly not.
>>130066142Quite so.
>>130066139embarrassing.
>>130066166Glad you agree
>>130066169>>130066190Glad we all agree.
>>130066310Yes, we do: Rachmaninoff is shit.
>>130064222Thank you for revealing some of your mysteries, MysticAnon
>>130065382Wish he had more orchestral stuff. For the music he has, pretty good. The orchestral suites (eg Peer Gynt, Holberg Suite, Symphonic Dances), Lyric Pieces, string quartets, lieder/songs, and of course the piano concerto. Oh, and his violin sonatas are amazing, don't sleep on them.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6EHOh-Xqz4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s47tbA5cTX0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpKL-89IEYU
Are Karajan's recordings of Beethoven's symphonies any good? I've only heard the beginning of the First Symphony, and I know it's an Adagio Molto, but it sounded way too slow. It almost sounds like a different symphony
>>130066461no
>>130066461they're worth hearing, but i don't think they're a referencehttps://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL-yWVAJg83e0EcDiQITMsh2YSg424gx3Talso in general Karajan always sounds better live
>>130066461>Are Karajan's recordings... any good?The answer is always yes.The real question is will it match your taste and vision of the work. Only you can answer that. If it sounded too slow, that's fine, plenty of faster cycles out there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUifdykZijs&list=OLAK5uy_kaqFqUByp_CNFNtepboUe6DTxa0p0yztI&index=1Or Chailly
What are good resources for 21st century classical music?
>>130066520If you find some, let me know. Most of what I have in my library is the result of some of the review websites posting a review of a new recording of a contemporary composer, but that's in a flood of new recordings of, well, older repertoire as well.So, I suppose sites like that + any site that does reviews/articles of live concerts + articles/long-form text on various classical music related things, and just wait until they write something that features contemporary music.
>>130066461Not really. He's not great in repertory that demands drama and contrast. Besides tempi his characteristic blended sound and gooey string articulation is too refined and legato. He's not the worst Beethoven conductor out there but it's not his strength.
>>130066506I always try to listen to the version of the piece that’s most faithful to the original (especially this one, since it’s still a work from the classical period); compared to the version I usually listen to, Karajan makes the piece very romantic and dramatic. The kind of thing that wouldn’t have been done until decades later
>>130066520money
>>130066461Symphony No. 1 & 3 - MackerrasSymphony No. 2 - 6 & 8 - ChaillySymphony No. 7 - PorcelijnSymphony No. 9 - Gielen (SRW Symphony Orchestra)
>>130066583>I always try to listen to the version of the piece that’s most faithful to the original (especially this one, since it’s still a work from the classical period);Then you'll probably like the Blomstedt/Gewandhaus cycle I posted or the newer Chailly/Gewandhaus cycle.
Violin gang rise up.
>>130066583>Karajan makes the piece very romanticit has nothing in common with the romantic tradition at all, it is firmly a modern, 20th century interpretation. loud and big =/= romantic
>>130066824He clearly means romantic in the modern sense, though. Sometimes it pays off to give the semantic rigidity a rest and rely on more pragmatic contextual readings, anon.
>>130066857>He clearly means romantic in the modern sensei don't care what people want to force it to mean, i will continue to correct people who apply the "romantic" label to post ww2 interpretations of classical works
>>130066559You'd think the conservatories would have something useful for this. I don't even know where to begin looking. Can you recommend me anything you've liked?
>>130066870I better not catch you say "modern" when you mean "contemporary" then
>>130066918fair enough
>>130066897>Can you recommend me anything you've liked?Anna Clyne. Thomas Ades. Unsuk Chin. Jörg Widmann. Gabriela Ortiz.
did you listen to it yet?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FNPsnCZQj0
>>130067051No, and never will
>>130067098this anon motivated will NEVER be defeated (in posting the piece)
>>130067133Don't reply to me
>>130067153bourgeois scum
>>130067159armchair bolshevik who will never contribue to ease the suffering of the oppressed and exploited
>>130067176my contribution is posting Rzewski
>>130067195Like I said. And don't reply to my posts
It's timehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12pvQKRAC2Q&list=OLAK5uy_nqiyLMZY1VOcBWOi_-2qeGgwSSeBma6gg&index=164
One more month, anons...
now playingstart of Chopin: Piano Sonata No. 2 in B-Flat Minor, Op. 35https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdhRY2WgMS0&list=OLAK5uy_lHwLEvBOwYyYZrP_nXCJAnjH8kgbpBEZg&index=2start of Chopin: Piano Sonata No. 3 in B Minor, Op. 58https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUJadOVNs9k&list=OLAK5uy_lHwLEvBOwYyYZrP_nXCJAnjH8kgbpBEZg&index=6Chopin: Fantaisie in F Minor, Op. 49https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyqfxQbjC7I&list=OLAK5uy_lHwLEvBOwYyYZrP_nXCJAnjH8kgbpBEZg&index=10Chopin: Barcarolle in F-Sharp Major, Op. 60https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQHCPwjQYqc&list=OLAK5uy_lHwLEvBOwYyYZrP_nXCJAnjH8kgbpBEZg&index=11Chopin: Berceuse in D-Flat Major, Op. 57https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQrxDj0IIiM&list=OLAK5uy_lHwLEvBOwYyYZrP_nXCJAnjH8kgbpBEZg&index=11https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lHwLEvBOwYyYZrP_nXCJAnjH8kgbpBEZg
>mfw patrician gf says I have one week to learn to play the first movement of Beethoven's Pathetique or we're DONE (i don't even play the piano!!)O_O
>>1300631192 violas obvioisly
>>130063119how the hell am i supposed to know? the music just happens, i don't know how, i only know it's strings, and sometimes i can't even tell winds and strings apart in a symphony
>>130067265who are the singers
>>130067360unironically based retard
>>130067370all the parts are on here https://ringcycle.dallassymphony.orgbut for the major ones<------
>>130063119Violin IViolin II ViolaFrench HornCello Double Bass
>>130067405That's a sextet, retard
>>130067265>>130067398Dallas? Salad.
>>130067489The horn always raises the level
>>130067505nonsensical reply; learn to count
>>130067541Horn is a +1 buff
>>130067549>>>/vg/
is it a quintet if i put a hammer blow at the end of my string quartet piece?
>>130067564no, it's pop
>>130067501Salud!
>>130067573this ain't about you
Any good Mahler 3s? Already tried>Bernstein/NYP>Haitink/RCO>Solti/LSO>Solti/CSO>Horenstein/LSO>Mehta/LAPO>Tennstedt/LPO>Abbado/VPO>Inbal/FRSO>Maazel/VPO>Sinopoli/PO>Litton/DSO>Boulez/VPO>Chailly/RCO>Fischer/BFOand didn't really care for them.
>>130067613have you considered that maybe you don't like the symphony
>>130067613For starters, peep this page,https://www.musicweb-international.com/Mahler/Mahler3.htmOtherwise, hmm, you might like Honeck's? Bichkov? Did you try both Bernsteins (both with NYP, one on Sony, one on DG)? And I actually like Abbado with the BPO more, I like the softer, lusher sonority. Oh, and Salonen/LA. But yeah, as the anon who is always telling folks "you have to try a handful of performances before you can properly decide if you don't like a piece," sounds like you just don't like the piece.
>>130067613>Abbado/VPOSorry, but you're wrong. Try again until you like it.
>tfw no karajan mahler 2>tfw no karajan mahler 3>tfw no karajan mahler 8>tfw no karajan mahler 10why live
>>130067690no reason at all, anon. abandon life. today.
>>130067671Of all the great ones on that list, that's the one you go to bat for? I remember it being so plain. Maybe I should give it another listen next time I listen to the piece.
>>130067732I know what I'm about
>>130067690AI will change this in your lifetime
>>130067741based abbado enjoyer
>>130067747AI can't bring people back from the dead, sloplover
>>130067613Try Martinon I guesshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpxDNCUD_EA>>130067690the only good Mahler Karajan ever did was the 9th, so it's no big loss.
>>130067779I just know his 10th would've been great
>>130067779>the only good Mahler Karajan ever did was the 9th, so it's no big loss.hate to embarrass you in front of all your friends (hi ted!) but,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky0EAbft7MY&list=OLAK5uy_lzQsazBSZkT4oM-iuum1ufodxS6oDl40E&index=3andhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Po7kqABzqU&list=OLAK5uy_l0wFOqhjAyBsafxbjVpnc-moflLUBZOew&index=3andhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyrBhI7LrcU&list=OLAK5uy_lyYi2EKSWtB-nM0BQgYnbde_E9aXe1Yow&index=3and lastlyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plYox-avk3c&list=OLAK5uy_mr7F8fLBHpHSAvDyDSq5UpE5rBSqg5D9Y&index=4
>>130067613Xavier-Roth Ive told you a thousand times
>>130067850all trash
>>130067844the thought of his his soupy, chromium string sonority applied to the 10th makes me wanna coom>>130067865anon, that took a lot of time to assemble :/
>Xavier-Roth
>>130067872I bet it took a lot of time and effort to record, and for everyone involved to get there, and for the musicians to rehearse and all thatand for what? it's all trash
>>130067899but his Das Lied has Rene Kollo (one of the few who make the male parts actually sound good) and the angelic Christa Ludwig!
>>130067922even great artists have at least one dirt spot on their résumés
I wish I was a millionaire so I could pay to have a double-female-vocals Das Lied von der Erde recorded. Instead we have double-male versions. So sad.
>>130067844probably since his 9th was good>>130067850mehlook, i like Karajan but he just wasn't that idiomatic for the other pieces
I wish I was a millionaire so I could pay to have a double-female threesome with my two favourite singers. Instead, I'm poor and underfucked. So sad.
>me: *takes time to search up multiple recordings, copy the link, paste it into another browser, pull up the specific movement, paste it into a post, then repeat for however many links* (time to post: 5-10 minutes)>them: "all trash" (time to post: 5-10 seconds)why do I bother
>>130067994No idea, mate. You really shouldn't.
>>130067962>look, i like Karajan but he just wasn't that idiomatic for the other pieceswho cares about idiomatic? I just care if it sounds good. and the K-God knew how to make a performance and recording sound good.
>>130067994Don't you know about the statistic where the people who take time to leave review are overwhelmingly negative than positive
>>130068008>who cares about idiomatic?A lot of people, possibly most>I just care if it sounds goodSo do people who care about idiomatic performances
>>130068011You're right. If my post helped get even one lurker into Karajan and his Mahler, I am happy :)
>>130068008>who cares about idiomatic? I just care if it sounds good>who cares if it sounds good? i just care if it sounds good
>me: *listening to karajan's mahler*>them: oh, i didn't know you like mahler, anon>me: mahler? oh heavens no. i like karajan:)
>>130067613Can I ask what about them and the piece you don't like?
>>130068297the way it sounds
Karajan's style just sounds cheesy
>>130068379cheese is delicious
>>130068433but it gives me diahrreahea urghh guuuhh *farts out a little prolapse*
>>130068477
overrated lil piggy
>tfw same age as Schubert when he died and I still haven't written the Great American Novel yetoh shi---
>>130068677>Great>Americanoxymoron
>>130068685Maybe in classical but not in literature
>>130068697No, it's an oxymoron in all aspects of culture
>>130068705not if you're talking about scammers or criminals
>>130068712>when presented with the concept of culture, the usanistani mind will default to crime
>>130068032Your idiotmatic
>>130068995his idiomatic what
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 8 in C Minor, Op. 13 "Pathétique"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wK03OAzWyHc&list=OLAK5uy_lEq5uL_80P-zIG7x7T_OBg8PMuxV0WVLE&index=2start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 15 in D Major, Op. 28 "Pastoral"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AmDISYUSdY&list=OLAK5uy_lEq5uL_80P-zIG7x7T_OBg8PMuxV0WVLE&index=5start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 27 in E Minor, Op. 90https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcGe93IdlAg&list=OLAK5uy_lEq5uL_80P-zIG7x7T_OBg8PMuxV0WVLE&index=9start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major, Op. 109https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8YHCZn03AE&list=OLAK5uy_lEq5uL_80P-zIG7x7T_OBg8PMuxV0WVLE&index=11https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lEq5uL_80P-zIG7x7T_OBg8PMuxV0WVLE
>>130067962>look, i like Karajan but he just wasn't that idiomatic for the other piecesI would never suggest his 4th, 5th, 6th, or DLvdE should ever be the only recording of those pieces one should have, for as you said they aren't very idiomatic, not to mention the homogenized chrome sonority which wipes out a lot of the emotional and tonal nuance, but for what they are, they are nice. That said, can't fault anyone for not liking them.
Das Rheingold, Die Walkure, and Siegfried I each have no problem listening to in one sitting. Gotterdammerung though is so dense that it leaves me emotionally and aurally exhausted after each Act. I often have to spread it out over a day, or even into the next. It's wild because musically I think it's the best, so you would think listening to it in its entirety in one sitting ought to be easy.>Pic: the romantichads in /classical/ bullying the one anon who only listens to baroque
>>130069241I can listen to the entirety of it in one go because it's basically just noise
>>130066897https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jM4r5jAzWIs&list=OLAK5uy_mVjZLHJLcZof_mZlpT-FEwkAXrCuAnpuY&index=5
>>130066327Certainly not.
Gertrude Grob-Prandl projected more feeling than any other Wagnerian soprano.
>>130069241When you consider the themes, then yes, it's heavy going. Gotterdammerung couldn't be any other way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzodB0Sp6ZIThis guy gets it.
>>130066327Correct.
>>130071574Charming.
>>130066327Incorrect.
*blocks your path on the way to the Holy Grail*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEz35T2TFNs&list=OLAK5uy_n1yjBqnOUQ1vQxXk6AEG9EHcY5jPjARns&index=25
https://youtu.be/PcWnQ7fYzwI?si=1xz5XeBovvLpIi3e&t=1018Rachmaninoff was reborn into an octupus.
Lemme ask a perhaps silly question I've been mulling in my mind these past couple days: so for most parts in most operas, the voice designation is just "soprano/baritone/whatever", and you hit your specific notes. But then there's some parts, like Wotan, Tristan, Sieglinde, Siegfried, the Mime, whatever, who have a specific type of voice in mind -- you listen to any recording or performance, they all mostly aim for a similar kind of voice.But what is this actually based on? The characterization in the libretto (but surely that still leaves it open to some interpretation)? Are there notes in the sheet music? Or is it historically based, on a lineage of performers; this is the way Wotan and Siegfried have always sounded, so we keep making them sound that way?
>>130072869>The characterization in the librettoThis and how virtuosic the part is, e.g. the Queen of the Night and Pamina are both sopranos but the Queen has all those coloratura passages, while Pamina has mostly lyrical passages.
>>130073091I suppose I just find it remarkable how Siegfried always sounds the same if it's based on finding someone suitable to the characterization in the text, versus "our Siegfried sounds like this because that's how the performances I heard sounded, which sounded that way because that's how the performances they heard sounded..." and so on, a historical lineage back to Wagner himself.But, then again, I guess there's only so much variety in the human voice, so maybe I'm underestimating how easy it is to converge on the casting of Siegfried based on his character.
now playingstart of Rachmaninoff: Cello Sonata in G Minor, Op. 19https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eRAks_hSnk&list=OLAK5uy_mQYynX8XMLXL6ZR3u7LChQRInUhBE_ODI&index=2Rachmaninoff: 14 Romances, Op. 34, No. 14, Vocalise (Transcr. Capuçon & Montero for Cello and Piano)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y33uiqSYBo&list=OLAK5uy_mQYynX8XMLXL6ZR3u7LChQRInUhBE_ODI&index=6Rachmaninoff: Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini, Op. 43: Variation XVIII. Andante cantabilehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOcTdLx-iIE&list=OLAK5uy_mQYynX8XMLXL6ZR3u7LChQRInUhBE_ODI&index=7start of Prokofiev: Cello Sonata in C Major, Op. 119https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkxt8IYEuWA&list=OLAK5uy_mQYynX8XMLXL6ZR3u7LChQRInUhBE_ODI&index=7https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mQYynX8XMLXL6ZR3u7LChQRInUhBE_ODI
>>130073153Another thing you need to keep in mind when it comes to casting Siegfried is that playing this role means singing for 4 hours pretty much non stop. Not every kind of voice can do that.
>>130073189Well sure but that doesn't relate to the actual sound of the voice. Surely there must be more possibilities for the voice of a boyish, aloof, churlish adventurer, yet they all sound like they're working from not only the same text, but some sort of external musical reference, like they have a recording of the original singer Wagner casted for the role whom they try and match lol.
>>130062555I too prefer his 2nd, but I strongly feel that Brahms' 1st belongs on this list.
>>130063101The A Minor Quintet that is at the end of the video you posted is one of my favourite pieces of chamber music. I listen to it often. Boccherini, like Hummel, deserves a lot more 'mainstream' attention.
My current thing is I'm going on a constant rotation of types of recordings,>Recording that came out in the 21st century>Recording that came out in studio era of the 20th century (so roughly 1960-1999)>Recording that's from the hiss era (so prior to 1960)It's fun, giving a nice variety of styles and recordings. Using Wagner's Ring as an example, I went Thielemann -> Barenboim -> Knappertsbusch. Using Chopin as an example, I went Yulianna Avdeeva/Justin Taylor -> Pollini/Idil Biret -> Samson Francois/Arthur Rubinstein.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIRiqCkt3wo&list=OLAK5uy_mlnnUCrDloqapfO3E5oGgrP2hC5HnlWnc&index=18And you get to explore interpretive approaches to the repertoire across eras with immediate contrast.
>>130073374Why is there a random piano arrangement of Bellini's Norma stuffed right in the middle of this recording? lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOUa20FEsUs&list=OLAK5uy_mlnnUCrDloqapfO3E5oGgrP2hC5HnlWnc&index=14Is there some relation between Chopin and Bellini I'm not aware of? And before someone asks, no, Chopin didn't composer the arrangement, it was composed by the pianist Justin Taylor himself!
>>130073508>Is there some relation between Chopin and Bellini I'm not aware of? They were brothers
>>130069149The chud on the cover is like>Uhm ackshually I think you’ll find…
>>130073326That means a lot to me (I'm the main culprit of the Boccherini craze of late) since I shilled Hummel here a number of years ago and most people didn't give a fraction of a shit
>Boito—MefistofeleSo much fucking choir. Also somehow everything about this opera was mildly annoying. Or maybe I just didn't like the singers.
>>130073916>everything about this opera was mildly annoyingthat's the wagner influence
Why was Hans Pfitzner's music so unpopular? And where does he stand relative to Strauss, Mahler and Reger?
>>130074271>Why was Hans Pfitzner's music so unpopular?It was boring and old fashioned>where does he stand relative to Strauss, Mahler and Reger?He was a staunch anti-modernist reactionary. Take a wild guess
>>130074271>Hans Pfitzner's musicI didn't know covid vaccine came with music
>>130074311You're excruciatingly wittly, clever, and handsome
Mahler's biggest flaw is that he never achieved an organic unity in any of his works. The form was always fractured.
>>130074282>Take a wild guessI'm gonna guess he is vastly superior to those by your description
>>130074371Tthat was wild alright, well played. You're wrong, though, he was shit
>>130074383can't be any worse than Strauss Mahler and Reger
>>130074386k
>>130074395ugliest letter in the alphabet, easily
Mahler's biggest virtue is that he always carefully avoided so-called "organic" unity in all of his works. The form was always conscientiously fractured, freeing the music, freeing artistic expression itself.
>>130074409>Mahler's biggest virtue is that he always carefully avoided so-called "organic" unity in all of his works. The form was always conscientiously fractured, freeing the music, freeing artistic expression itself.Good point anon from 1925 but can we do something else now it's been a hundred years
>>130074429nonsensical post; listen to more music
>>130074443I have listened to plenty of music with the same object you described
>>130074463I said more, not more of the same. Why bother replying if you're going to be purposefully dim?>can we do something else nowWe have, and have been for a century now. Listen to more music.
>>130074472Are you really going to pretend to be retarded here
>>130074476cool
>>130074484hot
>>130074359So when are you going to give me oral
>>130074565Invoice sent :-^)
>>130069241>emotionally and orally exhausted Tight and ripe
>>130073735He secretly runs the world.
>>130074889he's doing a pisspoor job of it
>>130074928>Not Bisspoor*Sigh
>>130074282What did Brahms have that Pfitzner lacked?
>>130075694talent
>>130075720>t.
>>130075739didn't read
Brahms 1st intermezzo is good played by Glen Gould. The rest is boring as fuck
>>130075763
Are Brahms string quartets actually just bad?
>>130075788nope
>>130075788yep
>>130075807nah
>>130075788yeah
>>130075807>>130075815speak on that
>>130075803>>130075811speak on that
>>130075828thought so
>>130075788I like them a lot but they're definitely not going to convince the people who think Brahms is too academic.
Let's just call the Brahms string quartets an acquired taste :)
>>130075846>some of the most popular and celebrated quartets of the past 200 years>"acquired"how about you acquire a brain
>>130075816thought so
>>130075857>>some of the most popular and celebrated quartets of the past 200 yearsWe weren't talking about Schubert. Nor Mendelssohn. Nor Beethoven.
>>130075909You're right, we weren't! Very good!
>>130075788Most string quartets are
>>130075900sure showed 'em
Even Dave hates Brahms quartets - and he loves pretty much everything! That says it all.Academic slop.
Just got to hear Mahler 1 live for the first time. Far from my favourite of his, but man what fun it is to actually hear it being played, the finale knocks your socks off.
Half these threads are like comment chains of Evidently notEvidently yesEvidently not Evidently yesBut enough about you
>>130075973Correct.
>>130075973Ah, you have finally picked up on the fact that this is the autism containment thread.
>>130075959yes, listen to the Bach-hating, fat old sodomite like a good goy
>>130075999>brings Bach out of nowhereMindraped by Dave
>>130076151k
>>130076164Buckbroken by Bach and 2k year old fantasy booklet
>>130076187
>>130076151if you think about it Mendelssohn brought Bach out of nowhere first
This was funnyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-UaEnEtQDE
>>130075788I've always liked them. They aren't masterpieces, but they're still better than most. Then again I really, really like Brahms.
Wagnerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXhC5t01P8Q&list=OLAK5uy_m90BuQEHaZzLG_2WeqIrP2ECABIHlESfc&index=46
I've got a other confession to make WTC Book 1 > Book 2
>>130076919Nothing wrong with that. Either choice is fine. I find it tends to be musicians who prefer the second book, at least in my anecdotal experience from interviews and forums.
Sad news, friends, MTT has passed
>>130076983o wtfffffRest in Peace, Michael Tilson "Bernstein" Thomas
gonna listen to this recording on my walk. thought about Debussy but his Preludes are a little too diffusive and atmospheric, you need something with a bit of a beat, a bit of a tunehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6xLmsVrUBA&list=OLAK5uy_kUmj8wS6nsyQF0ijMqUxEbasytG_kvsyU&index=14
>>130076983Pretty sure Bernstein died years ago
>>130077006syke, I ended up listening to Belle & Sebastian, fug, the siren's song of indie pop/rock when walking through American suburbia is too strong
>>130076983NOOOOO
>>130076983You realize what everyone in this thread has to listen to now, right?100% this, it's the quintessential funereal piecehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYm3tT59qoE&list=OLAK5uy_nMxtJpyRvdpVk7SP8XXpMd-xjMn3xGE4s&index=4and a little bit of this, however some crowds might find it a bit too modernist for a somber funeralhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2gz_cp9sMk&list=OLAK5uy_lONeiPzfhqoHZ4vQT5kHaJmj2iBoc19ac&index=1&t=123sand perhaps thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsqLKbJzvZs&list=OLAK5uy_lXCfq-WclDprBt36C8n5wKgIuscXKwrX0&index=5RIP MTT, thanks for all the great recordings
>>130077220I don't care what anyone says, while MTT's Mahler's 5th might leave a bit to be desired overall, that Adagietto hits it outta the park. I'd be happy to have that recording of the movement played at my funeral.
Why aren't you faggots listening to Palestrina and other Renaissance composers?
>>130077459see pic>>130069241>Pic: the romantichads in /classical/ bullying the one anon who only listens to renaissance
>>130077459too busy listening to Boccherini
>>130075971True, I had the same experience a while back
>>130075971Hell yeah.
>>130077586>chad>listening to incel music made by cum stained hands of Brahms, Chopin, and SchumannAt least you posted Wagner and not Bruckner or Mahler.
>>130078327It's not literal, anon, it just works with the image well. Romantic fans outnumber baroque/renaissance fans here, and the scene looks like the Valkyries giving Sieglinde the beat-down, lol.
>>130078341You're giving a serious reply to a poster that unironically typed the sentence "cum stained hands of Brahms, Chopin, and Schumann". Do not validate mental illness.
>>130078412In retrospect he was merely replying to my banter with his own, so perhaps I was the foolish one!
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 37https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knJzGA3YVFk&list=OLAK5uy_loiNEznYCdT84OOOg1Cv3AHv8Y7SdRANY&index=8start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 4 in G Major, Op. 58https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjBqddDg9G8&list=OLAK5uy_loiNEznYCdT84OOOg1Cv3AHv8Y7SdRANY&index=11start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 5 in E-Flat Major, Op. 73 "Emperor"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ99eSoJmek&list=OLAK5uy_loiNEznYCdT84OOOg1Cv3AHv8Y7SdRANY&index=13https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_loiNEznYCdT84OOOg1Cv3AHv8Y7SdRANY>Hearing Stephen Hough over the course of one of music's most exhilarating odysseys is not an opportunity to be missed, especially when that odyssey encompasses the ?ve piano concertos of Beethoven. Recorded following a cycle of live performances in Helsinki, this magni?cent set is sure to be recognized as one of Hough's most important recordings.This set is actually pretty solid, give it a try!
I've noticed the vast majority of examples we have of composers commenting on the incorrect tempo used for their music by conductors, is to say it's too slow. Are there any examples of composers who thought their music should be performed slower than its common performance practice?
>>130078341>>130078412>>130078425Romanticels talking about mental illness is the perfect definition of irony, but yes I do love banter and and here's my final one.>pic related>an actually well-adjusted Romantic that is also a great composer.
The only real Romantichad, was an actual rockstar before it was a term, fucked bitches left and right and later in life realized they ain't shit and composed some of the most introspective piano music of the 19th century.
>>130078772that's not how you meme. lemme show you>pic: the final battle between liszt fans and chopin fans
(hiss) Lohengrin nighthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Sl5DpCBF0&list=OLAK5uy_ljDKWSN1bEKHOT5bp3udDyhgDlmcCu8ic&index=2
>>130079060I cringed so hard anon, just stop
>>130079661Bartók looking a little African here
>>130079661okay one more>pic: me fuckin' your mom on the beach
truth nuke: Prokofiev's piano sonatas > Scriabin's piano sonatashttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQYF1_ZOrS0the latter is still great tho
>>130079060>>130079755Terrible, awful sense of humor.>>130079676Just like his music.
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vh76W_LxzQ&list=OLAK5uy_l9wOdDV8tP2qvPfv3UVXoI9F1QYo5U-_0&index=2
Fleisher's Brahms 2 pc is perhaps the recording I hate the most. It is so terribly bad, I would destroy every single copy of it on earth just to save the world from its embarrassment.
>>130082291y
>>130082283Thanks never heard this one before
learning German has made me appreciate the Ring and Meistersinger much more but I still like Tristan and Parsifal about the same
Nicolas Gombert is goated, maybe the best after Josquin/Obrecht and before Lassus/Palestrina.Definitely Rore and Brumel's equal for sure.
>>130082283>>130083207>Despite Arthur Rubinstein's extroverted personality and open-hearted interpretive approach, his performances of Chopin's introspective, half-lit Nocturnes inspired him to some of his greatest recordings, as this, the last of his three traversals of the 19, amply demonstrates. His earlier recordings, from 1936-37 and 1949-50, have their admirers, but this set dating from 1965 and 1967 is superior for its interpretive depth and realistic stereo sound. It's a touch slower than the earlier versions, and Rubinstein's glorious tone color, mastery of shadings, and unerring sense of rubato help make these among his greatest recordings. He makes the music breathe as few others have; the melodies go straight to the heart thanks to subtle phrasing that wrings worlds of emotion without wallowing. That sense of naturalness and inevitability in his playing can be heard in every one of these 19 works. It makes the start of Op. 27, No. 1 deeply moving and inspires awe at the way he brings structural clarity to Op. 48, No. 1 without compromising its mood. Others may have equaled his achievement in one or another of these works, but as a set, this is inspired pianism. --Dan DavisGlad you ilke it!
>>130082291With Szell? Good thing the sisterposter isn't still here, that one was their favorite.
>>130082291>>130084759I think ClassicsToday (perhaps Hurwitz) lists it as a reference recording too.
>>130083287How so?
>>130085273>>130084759then it is officially shit
now playingstart of Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 1 in D minor, Op. 15https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZPyN67uRlE&list=OLAK5uy_mhcsScrp7itGgthfyUGvYq2OUWWW8vYvc&index=2start of Brahms: Piano Concerto No. 2 in B flat, Op. 83https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mX2kkLVHckc&list=OLAK5uy_mhcsScrp7itGgthfyUGvYq2OUWWW8vYvc&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mhcsScrp7itGgthfyUGvYq2OUWWW8vYvcOne of the best recordings of these masterpieces.
>>130082291Wrong.
One thing that bugs me about Siegfried is while the Mime is supposed to be a wholly unsympathetic character, he did still take Siegfried in as a baby and raise him as his own child for twenty-some years. Plus, y'know, Siegfried's constant verbal elder abuse. Not that any of it justifies the Mimeusing Siegfried and planning to kill him later, but it does tilt the emotional effect just a tad.Also interesting, listening to the Knappertsbusch recording now, and it's cool to see the difference in how the voice was done. You listen to any modern (in the broad sense, like the studio era) Ring/Siegfried, and the Mime always sounds grotesque and vile, whereas in this old Knappertsbusch Ring from 1956, he just sounds like a regular person with a conniving character.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktVorjh7yec&list=OLAK5uy_m90BuQEHaZzLG_2WeqIrP2ECABIHlESfc&index=77It's one of the voices in Wagner whose performance practice has dramatically changed over time. Cool to see the difference!
>>130085527Mime never loved Siegfried for one second of those 20 years, and Siegfried felt this all the time (which is why he expresses so much longing for his family)
>>130085555Of course. It's not nothin' tho! I just remember thinking while watching it, "that's a bummer end to a twenty-year foster parent relationship" lol. Obviously these human concerns and timescales are nothing in the tales of the gods and heroes.
>>130085555I wouldn't love that delinquent, insolent punk either!
Brahmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Rt0WTlyuO8&list=OLAK5uy_nhyE_nrZTjftSNjLQ-LGXyGHvwV19XrNs&index=20
>>130084759Good for him, I would make fun of him for liking such atrocity>>130085273ClassicsToday is wrong about many things.>>130085444If you're deaf, perhaps.
new>>130085936>>130085936>>130085936
>>130085910Not seeing an argument here.
>>130085953The argument is that it's shit in every single aspect imaginable. Cold, embarrassingly robotic phrasing, tempi, expressiveness and utterly antithetical to Brahms and music itself.
the "the "the vagner meme" meme" meme
the vagner meme
