>>1988242
>full of minorities
>smells like turds
>zoomers blasting rap on it 24/7
>cannot bring a woman with you unless you want to watch her get groped
>slow as fuck, extending the time you have to listen to schizo homeless guys rant
>perpetually late
>not cheaper than a car
>basically a homeless shelter on wheels funded by taxpayer money

Oh, and inb4
>B..BUT THAT'S BAD TRANSIT
Literally "real communism has never been tried."

>>1988249
You also forgot

>permanent financial black hole with zero accountability while the riders insist it should be free and "the rich will pay for it"

yimbys: "we have to force bike lanes down everyone's throat and make it illegal to ride a bike on roads because it's literally impossible to ride a bike without permission from the government"

also yimbys: "oh they do fine without them in japan? but but but, AMERICAN ROADS TOO BIG"

>>1988242
>"it takes thirty minutes to get groceries in the suburbs!"
>"muh stroads"
>"the streets used to be for people"
>"it's actually more efficient**" (when it's mostly full and not going empty/mostly in the night)
>"BUT WHAT IF CHILDREN WERE LINED UP UNDER THE TIRES"
>"unsustainable suburbia!"
>"I need to get home from the bars after they close"
>"just use a cargo bike bro"
>bringing up the GM "conspiracy"
>using 50-year-old photos or photos deliberately framed to look bad

...oh wait, you said "AGAINST" transit?

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>>1988242
>inefficient

Lol straight up just making shit up

>>1988255
John Forester was right

>>1988242
>train
>doesn't get stuck in traffic
back when I lived in Hamburg, trains got stuck all the time because of congestion. Every time I traveled back from Kiel, I would enter Hamburg city limits on time but arrive at the congress hall station 10 minutes late.
Meanwhile my university in Kiel and my home in Hamburg were both right by a grade-separated thoroughfare and only a smaller part of the route not yet upgraded to an autobahn was an unavoidable bottleneck

All cars should be destroyed. Every town and city on earth should be designed for pedestrians.

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>>1988251
>financial black hole
I think you replied to the wrong post, because that's roads

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>>1988306
uh, car bros????

>>1988639
Nice

>>1988242
Idk about bad faith because the proponents certainly beliece it, but the idea that 15-minute cities are some kind of conspiracy on the verge of implementation that will eliminate the automobile and trample the rights of red-blooded freedom lovers

>>1988654
>It’s not happening
>it’s happening and this why it is good thing!

>>1988249
here in melbourne a yearly public transport pass costs me under $2000
the average car costs at least $12000 a year
that's $10000 saved every year

>>1988676
>Anon discovers nice things cost more than shitty things

>>1988677
I can buy nice things for my home or go on a holiday every year for the price of owning a car
or I could keep investing it every year and growing wealth
public transport is faster and more convenient than driving in the inner areas

A 1 hour train ride here can cost 60 bucks easily
If you're two people that's 120
Same distance with car costs like 30 including parking

>>1988678
It sounds like you can't afford a car and are coping. Enjoy trying to find a date who's fine with riding the bus lol

>>1988676
>the average car costs at least $12000 a year
how did you get to that number? Or are you one of those fags that can't turn a wrench and leases instead of pays cash because mr. noseberg told you it is so much smarter.

>>1988682
>only poorfags are smart with their money

>>1988682
I have literally never been on a date involving a car, not once. unless you mean like an uber because it's raining. only guidos from new jersey and long island drive cars and whine about muh traffic jam on muh long island expressway, why didn't you take LIRR you r-slur.

>>1988634
Name a whole city or town that has no cars whatsoever.

>>1988708
>I have literally never been on a date
I believe you

>>1988714
nice one. but I bet you've never taken a boat as your ride. how do you not die of boredom being stuck in a car all the time?

I’d love trains but sadly our geography is pure mountains so it’d be pretty damn difficult and expensive to make a solid railway

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I don't want to be in the same vehicle as that (thing in webm.)

>>1988673
The idea of a 15-minute city has existed since agglomerations of humans has been a thing; when most people had to get around on 2 feet all those services HAD to be in close proximity.
The idea of such a thing being an absurdity is a uniquely late 20th century/early 21st century north american idea.

>>1988676
>the average car costs at least $12000 a year
What kind of retard weed are you smoking?

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>>1988770
that's defeatist attitude, how did Japan manage to do it then?

>>1988249
That last bit is so true. It’s communism on wheels. Governments would tell you jumping off a bridge was healthy and beneficial, if it suited them.

>>1988306
>San Franshitsco

“We’d have to totally redesign our city from the ground up!”

Not really, you just build urban infill and upgrade transit incrementally.

>>1988639
>irrelevant europoor shithole

>>1988242
JUST BUILD A TRAIN

Sometimes a bus or subway or ropeway is far better, not every where is ideal for a train.

>>1988825
The trains don't go into the mountains, they stay in the dense pockets of relatively flat land where Tokyo and other cities are, and the narrow passes that connect them.

>>1988818
American cities are 15 minute cities unlike Netherlands for example
>>1987587

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>>1988825
Japs don't live in the mountains, they live on small strips of the flat lands mostly along the shore that makes convenient railroad building along single line

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>>1988249
Sounds like you live in the Third World. I can understand that you get that impression of train travel.

Meanwhile, in the First World:

>>1988985
Is that picture more than three years old or are they permanently enslaved and wear the muzzle at all times?

>>1988990
I don't actively wear a mask about 99 percent of the time, but I always bring a spare one with me when riding the train (CTA or Metra)

Cause sometimes it just stinks up in those bitches

>>1988990
some people live with immunocompromised and even a small reduction in risk at home is worth the risk from upsetting a few reactionaries

t. have a relative whose immunes don't work so good and it's a pain in the ass for everyone around them

>>1988993
>small reduction in risk
>still riding in the public petri dish instead of the privately owned automobile

>>1988997
that's a big change compared to putting on the mask, are you some kind of libcuck who took the vaxx?

>>1988998
Why don't you admit that you want to kill granny?

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>>1988639
I did the same route now and the car is literally faster once again lmao

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>>1989026
you're a fucking retard, kill yourself. google maps is also frequently wrong for transit times and recommends awful routes

>>1988306
Why the fuck are cars so fast? It's not fair. They should be getting stuck in traffic or something

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>>1988682
Americans be like
>No sex allowed unless you spend your hard-earned wagebucks on a multiton vehicle

>>1988682
>It sounds like you can't afford a car
looking at which $3-4 million house to buy as we speak
if you can't afford to live in a walkable area, I don't begrudge you

>>1988249
What is this idea of public transport being filled with rapists, piss and shit. Is america really that fucking bad ? Here in eastern europe public transport is cheap as shit and rarely has criminals. Also it runs on time, there's a bus literally once every 1 or 2 minutes

>>1989132
Only big cities are a problem, and only big cities tend to have transit, therefore, all the transit examples are in big cities run by machine politics.

>>1988676
Cars are expensive here sure but I'd still put an average car more around 5-10k, and still possible to get shitboxes for 3-5k

>>1988242
I think the argument I hate the most is that a car offers "freedom" while relying on public transport does not.
This can be true for that uniquely American semi-urban spread that is extremely poorly serviced by public transport, but in reality if you live in a half decent area not having a car is actually quite liberating, mostly in the financial sense, and in fact areas not served by pubic transport face higher levels of financial stress caused by cars https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/09/entrenched-car-culture-leaves-millions-of-britons-in-transport-poverty
Also non-car dominated areas encourage walking (either to and from other public transport nodes or just walking to a local destination) which further encourages local shopping, businesses and a better commercial fabric, a car gives you "freedom" to go wherever you want but in reality you're just shepherded towards certain shopping centres with certain chain stores so you end up with less choice and freedom overall.
There's also the argument that a reliance on public transport means you're stuck with areas along a set route as if cars aren't also bound by wherever the government decides to put roads.
Really I guess the thing I hate is how Americans in particular pick and choose the meaning of "freedom", in the /n/ sense they've decided being able to drive your own car to a particular destination equates freedom, even though you're much freer without the financial constraints brought on by driving, having a local social fabric facilitated by walking and by not having to go through licensing/ registration/ insurance and so on.

>>1989132
It's an utter meme perpetuated by Twitter chuds who never actually step outside, I've travelled to New York, Boston and Chicago, used public transport the entire time and it was fine. I saw a couple rats on a New York platform and some black guy tried to sell chocolate bars for charity and that's it.

>>1989261
>There's also the argument that a reliance on public transport means you're stuck with areas along a set route as if cars aren't also bound by wherever the government decides to put roads.
Because roads go virtually everywhere and trains/buses do not. What a bad argument

>>1989263
>I've travelled to New York, Boston and Chicago
Lol

>>1988924
There is literally a bullet train direct to a ski resort in central Japan. Japan does have plenty of rail lines that take you to into mountains. As another example, Switzerland has 0 trouble building rail lines up to mountain resorts too.

I don't get how people think you can't have rails across the entire U.S., but you can have highways across the whole country.

>>1988249
>first reply
>/o/ tourists have already invaded the thread

>>1989343
Freeways can carry cargo and passengers and they connect to the remainder of the highway and road network, allowing anyone with a vehicle to access them.

HSR only carries people (unprofitable or marginally profitably) and serves limited destinations.

>>1989263
When was the last time you took a CTA train? I lived in chicago for a couple of years. Went about 5 years without visiting, and then went there again last month. At the moment, it's pretty bad compared to NYC. The trains are literally just homeless camps now. Nobody threatened me and everyone was just miserable like homeless people usually are for the most part, but I would not call it "fine" and if things keep up nobody normal will use CTA trains for another generation or two. MTA is getting bad too but CTA is on a whole other level.

>>1989345
>implying there's more than 5 cars on the average slaveway carrying more than one Ameriafat and their equally obese ego

>>1988294
It's incredible how those are literally all perfectly valid and correct arguments and you have to deliberately edit them to make them look worse.
Verification not required.

>>1989123
I have had this happen to me once where this girl rejected me because I said I used the bus in a city of 600k people.

>>1988997
>Calls public transit a petri dish but not his car where in which he drinks, eats, smokes and maybe even fucks
Of course...also, if you're heavily immunocompromised then even a walk in a park can be your death sentence

>>1988930
>American cities are 15 minute cities unlike Netherlands for example
Then why do chuds spout that the latter is a plot to undermine western society?

>>1989350
>valid and correct arguments
Lol. Every single one relies on outright falsehoods, distorted history, distorted statistics, or preposterous whataboutisms that have no basis in reality.

>>1989343
There are rails across the entire U.S., they carry bulk cargo and it's only through modern logistics that rails can even remain profitable.

>>1989365
But enough about motor vehicle activists and their shitty non-aruguments.

>>1989263
My sister's friends get groped by Indians on a monthly basis in Toronto. They are all 15 years old.

>get on bus
>pay 5 dollars one way, sure it adds up to $300 a month, but car insance plus gas would be $301 a month, cagers btfo lol
>plus, I only have to transfer 7 times and wait for 4 hours to get to a spot 15km away, I bet it would take 3 weeks by car, /n/ said so!!!!
>stench of rot, mold, and stale cigarette smoke hits my nostrils
>not an issue because the fumes burned away all my smell receptors years ago
>push through crowd of 80 indians to find a seat
>hobo next to me shits himself, and starts doing a little dance to rub it into the seats
>watch 10 year old get molested by urban youth
>to the left of me, someone's crotch, 5 inches away
>to the right, a 7 year old wiping the contents of his nose on his phone and the back of my seat
>what a comfortable ride, getting only 3 seconds of airtime every time the driver hits a coal mine sized pothole
>bus breaks down, takes half an hour for replacement to arrive
>it's only my kid's birth that I'm missing
>kind urban youth offers me some fentanyl to make the time pass faster
>bus driver decides he has had enough, and drives into a concrete support at 120km/h, taking out the bridge, passengers, and 50 bystanders
>but at least I'm not a stupid cager on a highway with a McDonald's sign next to it
I'll walk, thanks.

>>1988676
>the average car costs at least $12000 a year
>a year
man australia is fucking crazy

>>1989026
low IQ post

It's crazy how walkable cities are actually objectively better for disabled people and children and yet NIMBYs keep using those groups as a shield against their evilness.

>>1989410
the schizo who talks to himself is back

>>1989413
But enough about your mother.

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>>1989410
>walkable cities are actually objectively better for disabled people
Uh-huh. So tell me if you think NJB didn't understand the question or deliberately avoided it.

>>1989418
NJB is an unhinged ideologue who is actively at war with reality, he has created so much zoomer brainrot it's unreal

it's quite frustrating, better transit would be a good thing for me and everyone I know, and I would love to discuss trains and buses more, but anyone who knows they're talking about is repulsed by these conversations, "transit talk" has been overrun with a zombie horde of annoying children repeating what they regard as zingers, pulled from the most obnoxious and ignorant internet personalities, the jordan petersens and andrew tates of transportation. fast talkers, who manage to appear smart, so long as you have no critical thinking skills and have never thought about any of this before nor have you a shred of intellectual curiosity or interest in understanding new things

>>1989410
>>1989426
>>1989371
>>1989356
>>1989355
Ahem, consneeder >>1989389

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>>1989430
what is it you would like me to consider about it? you're replying to different people

>>1989421
>Man with large audience orange-pilling zoomers, with real political effects.
NJB is extremely based. Many US cities are adopting traffic calming devices and bike/bus lanes. Drivers are being demoralized, replaced, and emasculated.

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>>1989448
>many US cities are creating better car storage areas and incentivizing running down cyclists who don't "stay in their lane"
the miracle of paint on asphalt!

>>1989452
>USA fails to implement that strange foreign technology known as "bollards"
If you actually lived in the US you wouldn't be surprised. No person advocating for reducing car dependency thinks that slapping paint on asphalt magically makes a bike line, but that's usually what we get because elected city officials refuse to even piss without getting "community engagement". It's progress though, and we are building on it. Changing the status quo is not quick or easy, not sorry if this upsets you.

>>1989463
unlike you, I not only live in the US, but I only get around on foot, by public transport, and by bicycle. what about you? ever been on one of them bus thingies NJB is always going on about?

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>>1989465
>>1989463
and btw I don't think you ever answered my question about mileage. my car mileage for the last month is still zero. yours?

and with that, the NJB shill once again scuttles away to another, more circlejerk-friendly internet echo chamber

>>1989466
About 6,000 miles a month, because I'm not a faggot.
Car has 300K already.

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>>1989472
>NJB: binge watched
>car odometer: 6000 miles added this month
>opinions about what people in actual cities are allowed to think about transit policy and cycling issues: spammed
yeah it's urbanist time

>>1989430
>Pay $5 one way.
My city has it so that you can pay up to a maximum of $4 a day, and one way trips cost at most $2 dollars, of course as a college student I don't have to pay. Fuck off with your bullshit.

>>1989530
>you can pay up to a maximum of $4 a day
So what happens on your fifth trip? Do they fine you?
>of course as a college student
You have no right to shill for anything until you spend at least a year working on an actual job.

>>1988249
This can be fixed by homogenizing your demographics. Effective public transit and walkability is only good when nations maintain this balance. Introduce foreigners and it all goes to hell.

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>>1989539
>just ethnically cleanse the cities bro
and here we have the common western yimby in its natural habitat

>>1989410
There is no better transportation for disabled people than car.

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>>1989539
>Effective public transit and walkability is only good when nations maintain this balance
Public transit only works when people are poor. Its just the fact. When people go past certain threshold of income when they can afford car they switch to car. Car has better qualities for user and public transit cant compete if price is no more main deciding factor.

>>1989389
>I'll walk, thanks.
Walking and cycling are /n/ and part of OPs post

>>1988676
Here in Portland a yearly transit pass costs 0 dollars because I fare evade every time.

>>1989132
N

>>1989504
What the fuck is NJB, son?

>>1989598
hello tourist, what brings you to /n/ today?

>>1988306
efficiency does not mean speed retard, plus that's an american city outside of rush hour

>>1989600
My hatred for pubic shitsport.
I go here only for the aviation threads, not the gay communism on wheels shilling.

>>1989613
so you're a bus driver in 3D or you just wish you could be one?

>>1989615
I was a bus rider for 4 years, unfortunately.
Fortunately, I have a car now.
Unfortunately, /n/ wants to ban them, and force me back on the bus.

>>1989630
no, we want to ban buses and put you on the trai/n/

>>1989638
So, all the stuff I mentioned minus potholes?

>>1989613
public TRANSPORTATION you retarded faggot, there are like 10 aviation threads for you go back to them.

>>1989605
>efficiency does not mean speed retard,
It does. Time is finite resourse and it ain't free. All people eventually die after they run out of time.

>>1989630
Socialists in a nutshell

>>1989656
Fun fact: Americans travel more miles per capita using public TRANSPORTATION than europoors. How can it be? Ask in aviation threads.

>>1989669
Well that's because Europeans use kilometers instead, duh

>>1988242
>What's the most retarded bad faith argument against improving transit and walkability you've come across?
Pretty much any claim where the word "racist" is used in ANY direction.

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>>1989673
>conversation about literally anything
>reeee the woke mob!!!!
you might want to ask yourself why people call you racist all the time. this is not an issue most people have

>>1989465
>>1989466
>and btw I don't think you ever answered my question about mileage
???

>my car mileage for the last month is still zero. yours?
>says the faggot lucky enough to live in a place that's already a walk/bike paradise compared to anywhere else in the US
>deflecting the point that even US cities making changes reduce car dependency are still slaves to the car because none of the fucking people designing and implementing this shit actually use it
Seriously dude, fuck off your high horse. I ride public transit (bus and rail) to the airport and downtown, because lack of expansions to the system in the last 20 years means any trip not to the CBD in my area takes 3+ hours. My job is 10 miles away, even farther outside the city. I could theoretically bike it but large sections of the route would put me in 55-65mph traffic, and I'm not about to commit suicide riding in that shit. I walk for everything else because I specifically chose to live in a place where I could walk for everything other than my job.

>>1989561
>he wants to share the road with 80+ year olds with shot reflexes, epileptics, alzheimers patients, people with paralyzed limbs
Hard no. We had to take my grandad's car from him a decade ago after he had two minor accidents and didn't realize he had even hit something. Now he has to have family drive him whenever he wants to go out, because he lives in a suburb of a midsize sunbelt city and would have to walk a mile just to get out of the neighborhood. He would have more independence living in a denser area, since he both wouldn't have to walk as far and even if he was stuck in a wheelchair or scooter, infrastructure for bikes and pedestrians also serves mobility scooters and wheelchairs as is. We're under two decades from this happening to the whole baby boomer generation.

>>1989561
>There is no better transportation for disabled people than car.
That is the absolute truth

Public transportation is challenging at best for people with severe physical disabilities. If urbanists actually bothered to interact with anyone like that they'd understand it too. Paratransit services are better than public transit too, but it in my experience you need to plan and call ahead to use it, making it slower and less convenient than a car. Plus, there's the benefit of close access provided by handicap parking spaces.

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>>1989709
>guy who lives on a high horse: fuck off your high horse
if you actually cared about improving anything at all anywhere, you wouldn't spend all your time simping for NJB and trying to shout down people who actually are dependent on public transport, and by dependent I mean for everyday life, I don't just mean "for my trip to the airport in december" or "to go downtown for the sportsball fight"

>>1989713
urbanists only pretend to care about disabled people as a weapon to use against people they disagree with. they actually believe that people with physical disabilities are a problem that makes public transit worse. look at any bus thread and you can see they get angry at the idea of having wheelchair lifts on a bus, or having stops closer than 3 miles apart, "that's what paratransit is for"

>>1989710
>Now he has to have family drive him whenever he wants to go out,
Car transportation
Now try to move him via bus or subway.

>>1989723
Where did I simp for your favorite memetuber? He abandoned the US. I live in the US, and I want my city to be less car dependent so that everyone can have the choice of whether to walk, bike, take public transit, or use a car. Right now, for a vast majority of the city's residents, cars are the only realistic choice except for a handful of trips, and those too poor to have a car are stuck with insanely long bus trips with infrequent service. I've been to NYC, the difference in coverage and frequency is night and day compared to my city, yet here you are telling me I'm the uppity one for not taking a 3 hour bus ride each way to work. You live in an awesome city, and I'm happy for you that you do. I don't, so I'll keep advocating for expanded public transit, denser mixed use areas around public transit, and safer active transit infrastructure in my own city and for others.

>>1989734
>Being dependent on family schedules to go out is better than having a bus/train every 15 minutes, or being able to walk a block to restaurants/shops/parks
>can't go shopping while family is working
>can't go to the driving range while family is working
>can't go out to eat with friends while family is working
Yeah, that sure sounds like freedom to me

>>1989737
weren't you crowing about how based and redpilled he is and how he's performing orchiectomies on the stupid nimby cagetrolls (aka literally anyone who disagrees with him)?

>>1989737
>try to drive disabled by public transit bus to shopping
>try to drive disabled by public transit bus to the driving range
>try to drive disabled by public transit bus to eat with friends

>>1989744
literally who? I have not made any posts ITT talking about NJB.

>>1989745
Yes anon, elderly and disabled people are capable of walking, or taking their wheelchair or mobility scooter, to a nearby bus stop or rail station, or across the street or the next block over, to do these activities. The ADA is literally there to ensure that public transit and stores are able to accommodate these people. Denser mixed use neighborhoods allow this. Living a mile away from a main road deep inside a SFH subdivision forces them to be reliant on paratransit if it exists at all in their area and they actually qualify for it, or more likely forces them to work around their family's schedules, robbing them of their independence.

>>1989747
if that wasn't you, then why are you answering as though it was?

if it was you, why do you insist on being wrong all the time?

>>1989749
I never answered you as if I was that dude. Assuming you're >>1989452, I posted >>1989463. I don't give a fuck about your beef with the NJB guy, I was just telling you why we get paint instead of actual infrastructure.

>>1989747
Why do "people" like this always pretend that taxi doesn't exist?

>>1989760
Taxis are expensive to use frequently and the elderly and disabled are more likely to be on a fixed government income. They have their uses for last mile transportation, but they run into the same problem as everybody having their own private car. Every additional car on the road imposes a delay on the existing vehicles on the road, and this delay increases exponentially. There's also the issue that not all cabs can accommodate a wheelchair or mobility scooter, so you might not be able to get a ride at all, whereas mass transit in the US is required by law to accommodate those users.

>>1989699
Perfect example this one. Can't even handle reading comprehension or use an /n/ related example.

>>1989768
everyone here was enthusiastically discussing trains and stuff and out of nowhere you barged in and cried that you get called a racist all the time, I wonder why that might be?

>>1989769
>you barged in and cried that you get called a racist all the time,
LOL. I actually struggle to see how you could misread it so hard. Try reading it one more time. Or maybe just give up.

>>1988242
Train
>efficient
only with 99.9% load factor, because the body itself weighs more than passengers
>fast
only on properly maintained track, with proper geometry with continuously welded rails and concrete sleepers, that also destroys 25 villages due to said track geometry and curve radius requirements
>rides itself
expect it doesn't on main lines, need at least 2 people with 70k salary and union benefits who strike for week because operator "forgot" about wage indexation, no to mention dispatching or wayside staff
>doesn't get stuck in traffic
minimum 2 tracks are required and even then it depends on state of the infrastructure and/or how much operator paid to the track owner
>saves you money
it saves me so much money that if i wanted to ride with my (hypothetical) wife and 2 early tween kids i'd have to pay 4 times, when travelling by car cost per passenger lowers with each extra person

also
-unaccountable blackhole
-pork barrel projects for 10+ billion
-"it doesn't need to profitable" "it's a service"

>>1989261
>Also non-car dominated areas encourage walking
maybe
>which further encourages local shopping,
why should i care about "local shopping" if they have less variety, things even closer to expiration date than ultra-discount stores and they add 40% commission on top of that
>businesses and a better commercial fabric,
BS only businesses that will be there are some shitty hipster cafe with a twist, overpriced drug store, fucking female barber that barely makes end meet and chase atm if you're lucky
>a car gives you "freedom" to go wherever you want but in reality you're just shepherded towards certain shopping centres with certain chain stores so you end up with less choice
do i really "give up my freedom" if said local shops give me barely any variety and want to exploit me due to being sole shop in several mile radius?

>>1989803
>only with 99.9% load factor, because the body itself weighs more than passengers
and tell me how much a car weighs compared to the average occupant
>only on properly maintained track, with proper geometry with continuously welded rails and concrete sleepers, that also destroys 25 villages due to said track geometry and curve radius requirements
the highway destroys 50 villages and only an american would think proper geometry of lines is a feat
>expect it doesn't on main lines, need at least 2 people with 70k salary and union benefits who strike for week because operator "forgot" about wage indexation, no to mention dispatching or wayside staff
OK that's not much for a train that moves thousands of people.
>minimum 2 tracks are required and even then it depends on state of the infrastructure and/or how much operator paid to the track owner
again only americans think a twinned line is insane to imagine
>-unaccountable blackhole
doesn't mean anything and highways are a massive use of taxpayer money as well
>-pork barrel projects for 10+ billion
another american only issue and there are still private enterprises like brightline which are already making profit

>>1988249
>still need a car to get to your destination

>>1989806
Crying about Americans and projecting is not an argument, turdie.

>>1989747
So anon your message to disabled people is
are you cripple? Stay in your fucking hood cripple and don't dare to travel! Travel is for normal people!
Very nice message uwu.

>>1989765
>Taxis are expensive to use frequently and the elderly and disabled are more likely to be on a fixed government income.
This is why best social help for disabled is taxi and paratransit (depending on disability level) vouchers. But for lefties running the show it's not about real help it's about humiliation ritual and virtue signaling.

>>1988249
>>cannot bring a woman with you unless you want to watch her get groped
Rest is true but how much of a pussy or a manlet are you for that to happen to you lmao

>>1989847
I like how you ignore his argument and just claim he said the exact opposite of what he said.

>>1989026
yeah but youd have to be driving instead of sleeping/gaming/reading

>>1990911
driving means you can stop and take detours any time you want sightseeing, camping, checking out small towns, eat at local restaurants and sleep in an inn instead of having other passengers breathing down your neck in cramped smelly environment the whole time.

>>1990921
on a TGV you have at most one person beside you and they will be well off, mostly likely white and bathed because they are french.

>>1990921
Which is fine if somebody wants to roadtrip but most people just want to get to their destination. The more people you force to roadtrip with you, the worse your own driving experience will be.

>>1989132
>I live in a homogenous Eastern European ethnostate
Wow man, I sure do wonder why public transportation works better there.
I'm sure my life would be nice too without having to babysit 40 million Sub-Saharans.

>>1988639
Now do the same assuming you don't live on a train station and add another 40 mins to ride with bags around Paris, add another 15-30 mins of waiting buffer between the transport and do the same for Nice since you probably live in a hotel on some cliff. Oh and by the way I've been to Nice couple weeks ago, you french retard deliberately calculated this particular route to make a fake point, because of Nice's mountanous and absolute dogshit roads, which are half closed for the repairs. But good try I guess.

>>1991202
you pick a parisian suburb and nice hotel then

>>1991202
>Ok but what if I choose the most inconvenient location for my trip on either end and even my made up numbers still end up being less time than driving! gotcha!
retard

>>1991221
>that's not fair that you're making up numbers to make your side look good
>yes, I do believe most peoples' commute is a two hour round trip for driving, with grocery stores half an hour away

>>1990949
For anything else nothing comes even close to a plane convenience, time and price wise.

>>1991237
air travel is the exact opposite of convenient

>>1991237
>can't bring more than 3 oz of liquid through airport security
>have to show up at least 45-60 minutes prior to flight, otherwise checked bags don't make it to the plane
>typically need to show up earlier because security can be a shitshow for zero reason and with no warning
>have to board and de-board through a single door
nah, train wins handily over a plane for convenience

>>1988634
This but unironically.

>>1991291
>>1991365
Poors can't into Pre-Check

>>1991385
I have Global Entry, which also gives me Pre-Check. Pre-check does not apply outside the US for one. For two, all airports have a minimum time before departure that you can check a bag. That's typically 45 minutes to an hour prior to departure for any major airport. For three, having Global Entry/Pre-check doesn't let you bring extra liquids through security, you fucking idiot.

>>1991395
>Pre-check does not apply outside the US for one.
I seldom fly internationally, doesn't affect me
>For two, all airports have a minimum time before departure that you can check a bag.
Don't care, seldom check a bag and if I do I'll just get there when they tell me to because I don't find following instructions difficult
>For three, having Global Entry/Pre-check doesn't let you bring extra liquids through security, you fucking idiot.
Imagine feeling limited because you can't carry liquids. Absolute rookie

>>1991399
>hah, you object to eating shit? plebian

>>1988242
The psychotic guy in the bmw and pickup truck will now be sitting next to you.

>>1991430
shit, maybe the cage is good after all

>>1988242
One guy in this thread says walkability is bad because "It restricts mobility and forces people to live in anthills".
So retarded. It literally increases mobility tenfold. Also a city is supposed to be dense housing.
https://desuarchive.org/k/thread/61422184
I knew my thread would get deleted but holy shit, some of these car people are delusional. They've been brainwashed. Imagine wanting to murder someone for suggesting to reduce car subsidies

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>>1991599
>/k/
don't you have a donut shop to be robbing

>>1991599
least obsessed crossboard shill

>>1991291
>>1991365
It's still better than sitting in a flea infested train for 12 hours like a fucking hobo.

>>1991599
I honestly hope some day you'll get robbed and stabbed to death for spamming other boards with your faggot gripes.

>>1991608
/k/ is really the only board i use

>>1991612
>posted on the other board

>>1991615
Its true, its true. This is the first time ive opened this board at all in two years

>>1991616
You know that lying through your teeth only makes people want to murder you more, right?

>>1991617
I suppose this doesnt prove anything since i deleted the porn threads but here
https://files.catbox.moe/udv5t6.mp4

>>1991621
So you in fact do shit up your boards with your faggot dripes. The day of the pipe wrench cannot come soon enough for you faggots.

>>1991622
Those are threads I opened not threads I posted a reply to

>>1991623
I don't give a shit

>>1991624
You stopped using full stops. I win.

>>1990921
Yes, because most people who are going back home definitely decide to go camping in a forest or go check some random towns on the opposite end of their local mountain ridge

>>1991385
>Fuck you, I'm rich
Typical...

>>1991627
i hope you get cancer and spend months dying in agony

>>1991769
most people who are going back home take a plane to get there sooner instead of wasting an entire day sitting in a cramped stinky train for losers

>>1991427
>Emotional argument
Woman

>>1989562
>
this is false, theres a reason trains in first world countries have first class areas and they arent empty

>>1988242
"roads were BUILT for cars"

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>>1992579
May I propose a solution?
>for all roads widened or built before 1930, cars should be limited or banned
>for all roads widened or built after 1930, cyclists should be limited or banned

>>1992576
It looks like only inter-city (not local metro) trains offer "first class" service, and the socialist party in The Netherlands want that eliminated anyway.

>>1988242
>trains
>fast
>efficient
what? riding mass transit literally takes 4 times as long as driving and you have to deal with anti social behavior
>>1988676
how does a car cost $12,000 per year?

>>1992583
no

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ITT Americans living in a 3rd world country huffing copium

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>>1988770
Build a tunnel

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>>1992595
you live in a 3rd world shithole with worse public transit infrastructure than pajeets

>>1992612
I would not ride a pajeet train either due to the smell. also trains are 1800s tech. only third world shitholes use them over cars

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>>1992613
Just admit you live in a backwards shithole that can't even dream of reaching the levels of pajeets, let alone japs

>>1992614
we have roads here, unlike those colonies

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>>1992616
The country that produces some of the most reliable cars famously does not have roads.

>>1992617
yup. if they could drive no one would take the trains in india

>>1992618
Enjoy seething in traffic while I close my eyes and zoom past you on a train.

>>1992619
>train
>zoom
>eyes closed
takes 4 times as long to get anywhere on a train as driving and trains are fucking full of "anti social" behavior

>>1992620
>takes 4 times as long to get anywhere on a train as driving and trains are fucking full of "anti social" behavior
Only in your shithole country
>Jap train
>precisely on time
>Clean, immaculate in fact
>Smooth ride
>Faster than driving

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>>1992620
The Amerifag mind is fundamentally incapable of even fathoming the thought of functional infrastructure

>>1992622
you forgot
>packed in like sardines
>tons of rapes
>>1992625
>be yuro
>send a bunch of assholes to the US because you don't want to pick your own cotton
>blame the US for assholes being assholes

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>>1992626
>>packed in like sardines
?

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>>1992630
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9Xg7ui5mLA

>>1988676
But you have to spend the 10k you saved on hookers because you cant get laid without a car

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>>1992631

>>1992632
10k is honestly cheaper than a gf

>>1988242
"Trains are 1800s tech"

>>1992691
so are cars and boycycles

>>1992625
>making cars unusable is functional infranstucture
Rangeban all third worlder communist subhumans

>>1992699
>cars in japan
>unusable
one of the highest vehicle ownership rates in the world

>>1989448
>NJB is extremely based
He must be paid by the Dutch government or something for how much he shills their infrastructure. The funniest was him trying to justify their shitty business parks as somehow better, which is so laughably stupid because those neighborhoods are soulless and even Dutch people think they suck.
The funniest thing is seeing how little he understood Montreal and trying to complain about it, with Montrealers pointing how absolutely wrong he was on so many points.
He's honestly just terrified of cars, and has evolved his entire personality (and now career) around whining about them. I can't wait for Youtube to pull the plug on the algorithm and kill off that stupid channel.

>>1989448
>>1992751

NJB just wanks over the Netherlands and conveniently forgets what they built in the 60s

Alan Fisher actually offer good commentary and ways to improve NA

>>1992808
>Next Alan Fisher video never
CityNerd is another good one for NA specific commentary.

With regards for the Netherlands though, everybody was leveling shit for cars in the 50s-70s. The Netherlands just realized what a mistake it was faster than most and reversed course. Paris was a similar hellscape into the 2000s, but has made huge quality of life improvements for pedestrians, cyclists, and transit over the past two decades.

The only thing stopping US cities from doing the same is political will. The tiniest pushback from a retired busybody stonewalls projects that were already approved and funded by voter referendum. It's fucking wild.

>>1992709
Yet still utter trash, super taxed and suck

>>1992873
>huge quality of life improvements for pedestrians, cyclists, and transit
those things have no life to qualifiably improve

>>1992873
Netherlands were far better in the 70s than the shithole they are now.

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>>1992873
>The Netherlands just realized what a mistake it was faster than most and reversed course.
I think that's overstated.

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It's so funny to read some american posters about european bicycle infrastructure. Anon it does not matter what those basedboy rainbow retards tell you on Twitter, if it's raining outside all those progressive people jump in their cars to go to the office. Hand workers, poor fucks, students, foreigners go by a bus instead. I live in München, work in a city center in a big tech corp, literally everyone come to the office with their cars for the last rainy week including today. Trust me there's literally ZERO bicycles on the roads using these retarded plastic rain bags which Twitter might advertise to you, only bicycle delivery drivers go in the rain here.

>>1992889
>mostly rural highway going from 6 to 8 lanes for 5 miles to Schiphol airport
Oh no, the Netherlands was actually just Rhode Island in disguise this whole time! How will I ever recover?!

>>1992907
Urbanists unironically believe "europe" = their spring break in college. Like, no one has to work in europe! I know because I was there on vacation and didn't lift a finger! Obviously they don't spell it out like that, but in their mind that is the exact mental path they follow to rationalize their quixotic ideology.

>>1992909
This mindset is unironically why American suburbanites will never comprehend how much car dependency sucks. They only ever experience truly walkable places on vacation, so to them Tokyo or Paris or Copenhagen are no different than Disney. Nevermind that millions of people live and work in those cities without needing a car to do so.

>>1992927
If I wanted to live in a """"walkable city"""" I would

Don't want to though, it's that simple

>>1992929
Good for you. I do, which is why I support making my own city denser and with better transit and bike infrastructure. And also argue with you assholes on this hellsite about the merits.

>>1992930
>I support making my own city denser
Density causes congestion.
>And also argue with you assholes
Cluster B's can never hide their contempt for others for long

>>1992930
>we need more denser cities
>also immigration and forced integration and letting bums do whatever the fuck they want

>>1992930
So you're the textbook example of the discord trannies that shit up this website on the clock because it doesn't follow your subhuman ideology? What a surprise it's not.

>>1992927
Nigger you're literally the creature that he's talking about. Imagine seeing a post about urbanists being ignorant fanatics that don't know a thing about life anywhere but their mommy's basement and going on a rant about how cars are horrible and not needed.

>>1992927
>This mindset is unironically why American suburbanites will never comprehend how much car dependency sucks.
Because it doesn't, lol. They're living it every day and having no issues with it, no matter how much propagandists call it "car dependency" or whatever bullshit.

Earlier anti-urbanist here to chime in and say I've got no beef with trans people or immigrants. Horseshoe theory at work here. You can support human rights *and* be against ancap libertarian corporatist propaganda, who knew?

>>1992962
For you it looks more like a circle instead of a horseshoe. You think that you stay on the opposite side just to find out you are right near the retarded commies who support iran and russia and wish the western world burn. You need just a small step with your retarded worldview, I see this happen all the time.

>>1993017
"Commies" support russia, right. This isn't 1965 grandpa, "commies" is just a word you people use to describe anyone who thinks librarians don't belong in prison for letting kids read books or that disabled/elderly people should be able to keep their bus stops on the bus system you just "discovered" last week thanks to urbanism youtube, that they've been taking for longer than you've been alive and you want to shut down because elon levy said buses run faster when you delete all the stops (and the passengers).

You think you're the good guy because NJB taught you that people who don't have their head up their own ass are trying to "burn down the west", all the while you're trying to dismantle the systems put in place to protect the rights of people who your kind consider an impediment to "progress" (which is urbanist for fucking things up for everyone who isn't a multibillion dollar real estate developer).

A man named goebbels once said "accuse the other side of that of which you are guilty" or something to that effect, seems like the NJB crowd is taking that advice to heart. I recommend you follow your leader.

>>1993018
Im not american, i was born in a former soviet shithole and when I say commie I know what I mean. You literally stay couple of centimeters away from commie faggots and a meter away from being a western hater. Didn't read past first two sentences since you are factually wrong right from the start.

>>1993024
Yeah you would know a lot about disassembling the government and handing it all to oligarchs wouldn't you

>>1993028
>I'm not a commie
>instantly proceeds to defend commie government
Le classique

>>1993036
>unironically promoting kleptocracy
Yeah it's yimby time

>>1992953
his point that no one uses public transport in european cities except the poor is wrong though
>>1992952
AAAAAA A DIFFERING POLITICAL OPINION SAVE ME TRUMP
get the fuck back to facebook electionfag

>>1988676
>$12k per year
Who paid you to say that? BP? They are a big funder of climate change scientists. In no fucking world have cars ever cost 12k per year. That’s half the price of your brand new mid-sized suv. Most car loans are going to be 3 years and new cars don’t have any maintenance costs aside from a single oil change the first year. Cars just get less expensive after you pay it off. Maybe you drive like an idiot and break your car in the second or third year and have to shell out tons on money to fix it, but that’s a product of your bad decisions. I hate this retarded nanny “do nothing for yourself” culture where you people just sit on your hands and wonder why your world falls apart when you don’t maintain it. That’s not just applicable to cars but everything in your shitty life. Drive better, maintain the small shit yourself, and buy a used car for 2k. You’ll end up spending 1.5k-2k a year at most.

>>1992933
>Density causes congestion.
Wrong, cars cause congestion. The reason is because they are the single most space-inefficient form of transportation, and space is at a premium in urban areas.

>Cluster B's can never hide their contempt for others for long
You're on 4chan, get thicker skin faggot

>>1992950
Immigration made this country great. Bring back the Ellis Island policies.

Also homeless should be given housing and social support at no cost to themselves, and those with severe mental illness and rap sheets institutionalized. They shouldn't be punished for being homeless, but they should be held accountable for any violent crimes they commit.

>>1993074
My insurance on a cheap 5 year old hybrid is $2700 a year by itself, I haven't had an accident in 13 years and haven't had a ticket in 8 years. I've had 2 tickets in the 20 years I've been driving. I typically have at least one $700 maintenance item a year, and I've had a $450 monthly payment since I got the car. That's already $8800 a year without adding in gas or other wear items that I'm slowly using up.

>>1993094
My insurance is $0 per year and maintenance is also $0 per year and I'm a cagetroll nimby who doesn't know what's in my interests, seems like just another >skill issue

>>1993098
I'm really happy for you. Or sorry it happened.

>>1993083
How's college?

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>>1993099
You should feel bad for me. It's like living in the reign of terror. There are these things called community boards. Horrible people ride bicycles on the stroads, even when there's no special green paint! And yucky nimbies, with a net worth of less than $1 billion, can just squat on the future property of multifamily developers without paying them the rent they deserve, just because of some stupid piece of paper called a "deed" that supposedly (according to communists) gives the squatters a "title" to impede progress and cause the housing crisis.

>>1993094
I drive a cheap 12 year old Elantra that cost me 2.5k and have had to put less than 1.5k in maintenance over the almost 4 years I’ve owned the car. An oil change is $40 once or twice per year. Gas is $30 a month. Insurance is $400 a year. Rounding up, my yearly car expenses are about $1,400.00 and a one time payment of less than 3k for buying the car with cash.

I’ve taken Amtrak before and loved it, even though driving would have cost the same and been faster. I’m not against public transport, I just don’t want it coming out of my paycheck or massively interfering with the roadways I use. If I ride the train or bus, I’ll have for it, but I don’t want to pay for it if I don’t use it.

New York, Chicago, and DC have the best public transport in the Americas and aside from DC, those places are shitholes. Distance between neighbors and especially mode of transportation doesn’t have a significant impact on community. Culture does.

Maybe it’s better for the environment, but I don’t think the environment it in danger right now. I’m sure electric rails connecting dense, walkable cities has less of an impact on the environment, but there really isn’t a clean industrial society. We can offset the overall impacts to the global ecosystems and climate, but someone in the world will still suffer. It’s either going to be me getting asthma in the cities from car exhaust, or some kid in the Africa dying because they need mine the lithium for your electrically-powered life.

>>1993105
>$3k 12 year old car
>no repair bills
>cheapest car insurance in the US by far
Smells like unicorn farts

>>1993112
You make very poor decisions if you can’t afford a car. Your idiocy isn’t a good reason block the roads with your nanny transit line.

>>1993064
>his point that no one uses public transport in european cities except the poor is wrong
No it's not and you've done nothing but reinforce it by outing yourself as a discord shill.
ywnbaw

>>1993083
>Wrong, cars cause congestion.
There is next to no congestion in less dense areas. Density causes congestion no matter how much communist filth like you tries to lie about it.
>so homeless should be given housing and social support at no cost to themselves
You can pay for it then, or go fuck yourself you worthless leech.
>those with severe mental illness and rap sheets institutionalized
That is true, you should not be here but up there, with no internet access to shit up.

>>1993134
>>1993135
Meds. Now.

>>1993083
>"cars cause congestion"
People cause crime. The reason is that people are the only ones that are capable of being criminals, and criminals tend to be where people are.

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>>1993140
Urbanists have a solution to that too, just get rid of all the people! We can start with the olds, and the poors, and the cripples. I didn't see any of those on my spring break trip to europe. Of course a bunch of annoying loudmouth greyheads will start acting like you're committing war crimes by exterminating "undesirables" but actually this is how progress is made.

>>1988242
> "But but but, AMERICA'S TOO BIG"
It is, though. If you are going anywhere over 300 miles away (and often even less) it’s cheaper to fly there.

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>>1993154
Ignoring all the mountain ranges and waterways, it's 2,500 miles (4,100 km) to go from San Francisco to New York. In Europe, 2,500 (4,100 km) miles east from London is smack dab in the middle of Russia.

>>1993156
>In Europe, 2,500 (4,100 km) miles east from London is smack dab in the middle of Russia.
In Europe, there's no Europe in any direction that's 4100km. The horisontal width of Europe is like 2500km and going from the Crete all the way to Northern Sweden is 3000km.

>>1993136
For you. There's an asylum with a spot reserved for you out there as well.

>>1988242
i live in Alaska, good luck building anything here

It's not a bad faith argument, we barely have any infrastructure at all

>>1993134
>No it's not
[citation needed]
>you've done nothing but reinforce it by outing yourself as a discord shill.
I was on 4chan before discord even existed you mongoloid newfag

>>1993156
london isn't the furthest west point in europe retard

>>1989132
It's because America is extremely dysfunctional.
>>1989263
It's exaggerated but it isn't a meme. I don't doubt you've been to New York, but you must not have lived there. Violence is rare, but crazy people on the subway is fairly common, and it freaks people out. Honestly, high usage seems like it improves ride experience, because my large metro area has a pitiful light rail that I use and it tends to be best during commute times. If I ride it outside of commute times, it's almost guaranteed that there is going to be one or even a few crazy homeless people on the platform screaming gibberish. I just had dinner with my parents yesterday and we walked from my apartment to a nearby restaurant, which crossed by the rail platform. There was a guy literally screaming that he wanted to die and some nonsense about "the feds". The fed stuff was meaningless schizo rambling, but he also just kept screaming "I wish I was dead!!! I wish I'd never been born!!!!". That's terrifying to regular people, especially women and families or older people. All I could do was laugh and say "so you guys got the authentic light rail experience".

>>1993285
Not the point. I picked London because that was a large city in western Europe, just like I picked San Francisco because it was a large city on the West Coast. Start from Lisbon and you still end up in Russia.

>>1993284
>[citation needed]
Go outside after you wash away your ugly makeup, tranny. Congestion exists with overpopulation, period.
>I was on 4chan before discord even existed you mongoloid newfag
Absolutely no one will ever believe you, you worthless scum.

>>1993301
The only things dysfunctional in America are the things non-Americans bring and proliferate.

>>1993308
Why are you obsessed with transvestites? Seek help

>>1993305
fair enough
but most people aren't arguing against flying from ny to sf

>>1993308
>Congestion exists with overpopulation, period.
that has nothing to do with my point
>Absolutely no one will ever believe you, you worthless scum.
Unsurprisingly, the newfag can only resort to insults when he is exposed.

The most bad faith one is “people won’t use it!” Well they’re not going to use a shitty bike lane network.
But if you build a proper convenient network then it always gets used.

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>>1993571
>you have to build a complete bike network to my extremely high standards or it doesn't count
>wtf why is no one wanting to build bike lanes

>>1993571
No, the bad faith one is "you need my permission to ride a bicycle, in the form of this magical green paint, and if you don't use my green paint and go EXACTLY where I tell you you're allowed to go with your children's toy, I now have your permission to run you down and kill you and then go 'was he wearing a helmet doe?' while gesturing to the pair of mangled femurs and various hair and gristle and shredded organ meat jutting out of my crumpled, gore-soaked hood

Forester was right. Urbanists need to be launched into the sun

>>1993310
Not my fault they brigade the website with their shilling every day like this guy >>1993540

>>1993593
Yes. Every urban and suburban city should have a bollard/concrete separated bike lane wide enough for two bikes side by side, on both sides of the road, on all roads. Randomly ending a bike lane in 45mph car traffic is the equivalent of ramping cars off an unfinished overpass.

>>1993593
>extremely high standards
All a nigga need are concrete slabs and bike lanes that don't randomly end/turn into sharrows.

Bike lanes are proven to increase ridership and make streets safer for all users of the road. Anyone opposed to bike lanes is arguing in bad faith.

>>1993595
make claims about modal share in europe = proof of transsexuality?
?????

>>1992640
LA isn't in America

>>1992962
what do trannies and illegals have to do with human rights?

>ride train
>takes 6 times as long to get somewhere
>man eats your leg
https://kutv.com/news/nation-world/man-arrested-for-allegedly-taking-leg-after-california-train-incident-and-eating-it-wasco-amtrak-station-bnsf-railroad-police-evidence-suspect-resendo-tellez

>>1993680
bike lanes provide zero benefit and slow down traffic. bikes should be banned and bike lanes should be banned