>Hochul Halts Congestion Pricing in a Stunning 11th-Hour ShiftI fucking hate this country
>>2001666I wrote letters to the offices of Phil Murphy and several state and national legislators and about the negative impacts of the proposal. I'd like to think I played a small part in this decision. I'm gonna laugh at all the bicycle fags the next time I go into Manhattan.>t. carchad
>>2001672>frogposter>enjoying sitting gridlocked in his cage in lower ManhattanConfirmed terminal brain damage
>>2001666>I fucking hate this countryThen leave nigger. This is probably the smartest thing Hochul has done.
>>2001678I'll take an air conditioned mobile living room in a traffic jam over this shit every day of the week.
If they actually went through, every single democrat would be voted out of office. These are vile and evil political crooks, but even they understand when they’re pushing regular people too far
Good. Launch yimbys into the sun t. Manhattan resident
>>2001666>cagers want more trafficI don't understand the carbrain, I thought they wanted shorter commute timesalso devil trips OP
>>2001713Using this picture as an argument against transit is like using a picture of a car crash to argue against driving.>>2001712You're going to spend 43 minutes on the Brooklyn Bridge, and you're going to like it.
>>2001734>Using this picture as an argument against transitIt's a good argument against transit desu. Vagrancy is a problem and no one is doing anything about it. Pretending it's not a problem isn't a solution either.
>>2001734>Using this picture as an argument against transit is like using a picture of a car crash to argue against driving.I see homeless people on transit every day. I don't get into a car accident every day.
>>2001759Obviously, you're on transit every day and not in a car.
>>2001760You think if I was driving to work everyday I would get into a car accident every day?
>>2001762no, but you would see an accident every day, at least where I live.
>>2001666This proposal was unpopular among all demographics incl Manhattan residentsTerminally online people lose again
>>2001728>Redirect traffic through the outer boroughs Yeah fuck you cityfag.>>2001790I just find it funny all the supporters are either TransAlt yimbyfags or unironic MTA paid shills (or employed by them in some way)
>>2001831Not just outer boroughs but also upper manhattan. Like all yimby proposals it was designed to benefit a few ultra-wealthy elites who will never have to bear the burden, which of course is placed squarely on the shoulders of literally everyone other than the beneficiaries
>>2001666>don't piss off the voters during an election yearMaybe she's not a complete retard after all.
>>2001789delusional.
Congestion charge is the wrong ideaThey should just have banned all personal motor vehicles from ManhattanCongestion charge is a weak sauce compromise
>>2001726Post timestamped proof of address
>>2002011We've had this conversation many times yimby-kun, you usually accuse me of being a schizo and not taking my meds so let's just save some time and I'll say "already took 'em but thanks for the reminder" and then I offer you some or whatever, you have anything new to say today or is it just the same as usual? It's all so tiresome
>>2001996>They should just have banned all personal motor vehicles from ManhattanI'm sure that when the bottom falls out and businesses and people leave this will never be addressed as a cause. What about people living in Manhattan with cars?
>>2002030There's literally a whole geographical barrier called Manhattan that's separating the Long Island peninsula from the rest of the country. Even if I don't want to drive through Manhattan youre still trying to redirect all that traffic on the already congested SI Expressway and Cross Bronx/Bruckner to the GWB, it's actually kinda fucking annoying at how much this congestion charge is a big FUCK YOU from yuppies living in transit rich areas of Manhattan/North Brooklyn to the rest of the city
>>2001789Do you live in India?
>>2001666As a New Yorker congestion pricing is an absolute fucking ridiculous idea. If the point is to raise money for transit then discouraging people from driving into the city will increase demand on struggling transit infrastructure and fuck with middle class taxi drivers and riders who are trying to get in and out of downtown.If they want to raise money for transit why don't they tax the fucking property developers shitting up places like Hudson Yards and Billionaire's Row? Every New Yorker knows where the real fucking money in this town is and Hochul is an absolute fucking coward for trying to squeeze pennies out of commuters while condo and office developers and owners make out like fucking bandits on the daily.>"Ooooooooo but they don't use the service so it's unfair to charge them for itttttt!!!"How the fuck do you think the people who build, clean, and run those buildings get to work every god damn day? Up the commercial Manhattan taxes and be fucking done with it. They'll pay, what the fuck do you think they're gonna do? Leave NYC?
>>2001735Even if you drive, pic rel will try to get money for an unsolicited window washing or stand on the yellow line in the middle of the street at a light holding up a sign. Bums are just bums everywhere
>>2002046*rolls window up*not my problemtry ignoring that bums scent on the e train when he's rotting away bad enough to clear out a whole train car
>>2002047I think that bums should be exiled at sea so that they're not a nuisance to motorists or people using the subway to get to work. The existence of bums is ultimately not a transit issue
>>2002044if billionaires have to pay taxes on empty $10 million condos, the housing won't trickle down. why do you hate housing and love the "housing crisis"?
>>2001666>Congestion PricingWhat's that?t. not a filthy Yankee and don't live in a rat-maze for a city
>>2002153imagine being proud that you have an infant mortality rate on par with sub saharan africa
>>2002151Kek, so true, what was I thinking?
>>2001666This is all moot. There's practically zero good reasons to go to a city now anyway.
>>2002154>American X on par with Africa/South America>Break it down by demographics and it's literally all Africans or South Americans who live here doing X.America is a picture of Europe's future if there isn't a second holocaust.
>>2002308The poorest and most destitute areas in the US with the worst stats in just about everything are white rural towns in appalachia.Race has basically nothing to do with it because it turns out if you're just poor then things are shit and suck. Who knew.
>>2002154Imagine being proud that you live in Jew York.
>>2001996>Congestion charge is a weak sauce compromiseThat's not what a compromise is.
>>2002308>second
>>2001712>>I fucking hate this country>Then leave nigger. This is probably the smartest thing Hochul has done./pol/
>>2001678I take a massive dump on your face from the freedom of my car every time you project about cages.
>>2002331More lies that liberals tell themselves as they grovel before niggers
>>2002641>t. never been anywhere before in his life
>>2001666I though she was was woke? Wasn't she a top WEF lockdown Nazi in 2021?
>>2002640>obsessed with poopYou aren't refuting me
>>2003383Ideologies dont mean anything except as a way to keep you in power and keep other people out. Have you realized how the ruling class play this game? The powers that be currently operate through the democrats, and even their hatchet men (like Hochul) aren't that stupid to actually believe the nonsense they sprout
>>2002046I live in LA and I remember being in the car when guys like this hassled my parents when I was a kid, but it's never happened to me a single time in 20+ years of driving.
>>2002331The worst areas in the country are like 95% black.Appalachia has a lot of poverty but the violent crime rate is low.
>>2003383she does whatever the party tells her to do. dems liked lock downs until 2022, so she locked down. statewide dems know that congestion pricing is an issue because it'll cost them seats from long island and westchester. they also can't blame the republicans because they control the state, so she has to pull the plug and take the heat like a good little political operative because she wants to be senator after schumer retires/dies.
>>2004145>>2003383There's no political advantage to the congestion pricing and Hochul realized this.>a lot of internal dispute that could mean being on the outs when it comes to the political machine and funding>don't want any suburbs flipping red>don't want to harm New York City's commerce and taxbase furtherThe only people that were explicitly pro-congestion pricing are bugmen YIMBYs who have no real political power when it comes to Manhattan power money, everyone else either hated it or didn't care.
>>2003383>wokeWait until you find out that the people pushing this congestion pricing shit were 100% white yimbys from soho
>>2004152>There's no political advantage to the congestion pricing and Hochul realized this.$15 billion for making MTA stations ADA accessible, upgrading tracks, buying new rolling stock, and finishing 2nd Ave extension sure seem big political advantages>>a lot of internal dispute that could mean being on the outs when it comes to the political machine and fundingSee above, killing congestion pricing kills MTA's in-progress and future capital projects and turns all the people who rely on that against her.>>don't want any suburbs flipping redNone of the voters in the suburbs flipping out over being charged 15$ to drive into Manhattan below 60th street, and half of them are NJ commuters who can't vote for NY governor anyways.>>don't want to harm New York City's commerceA vast majority of people going below 60th street are doing so by subway. The handful that don't already have enough money that paying an extra $15 won't hurt them in any way, seeing as they can afford parking in fucking Manhattan.>>and taxbaseCancelling congestion pricing harms the taxbase more overall by killing a $15 billion dollar income stream for the biggest and most successful transit agency in the US.As an aside though, I'm pretty sure Hochul doesn't actually have the legal authority to cancel congestion pricing anyway. It's been signed into law already, so she can't stop it without another bill to repeal it.https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/nyc-comptroller-lander-coalition-of-legal-experts-and-potential-plaintiffs-announce-plan-to-explore-legal-avenues-to-resume-congestion-pricing/
>>2004244The yearly MTA budget is 20 billion USD already
>>2004244Where are you getting the idea that congestion pricing would create a $15B surplus?
>>2001713Non-American here: why doesn't NYC just install 8ft vertical turnstiles outside stations to prevent vagrants from getting on trains?We have them at every stadium I've ever been to, and they prevent people without tickets from entering. Are scan-in physical barriers an unknown technology in America?It is not necessary to step into a sealed metal tube with homeless vagrants, it has been prevented everywhere else.
>>2004302because there have to be emergency exits both by law and because it would prevent things like bikes, wheelchairs, and luggage, they probably killed all the disabled where you live but in america we still still have human rights at least for now
why are yimbys so preoccupied with exterminating the elderly and disabled anyway?
>>2004307Then put exit-only barriers near them, and make accommodations for people who can't use them.Perhaps physical barriers are an unknown technology in America. When I informed you that all the stadiums (and a lot of public transportation for that matter) here have it, you had such a pitiful imagination that it didn't even occur to you to wonder why Europeans aren't dying in massive stadium fires and turnstile stampedes. You seem to simultaneously believe it's technologically possible to land on the moon, but it's beyond the limits of human engineering to use physical barriers to select who can enter an area.I don't think incurious people should take part in discussion here, please refrain from replying further.
>>2004310I don't have to wonder why they aren't, because they are. are you this out of touch?
remember that time hundreds of people burned to death because yuropoors don't believe in safety?
>>2004308car centric society is particularly awful for the elderly and the disabled (and children) because these people often cannot drive
>>2004320we haven't forgotten your attempts to delete democracy because "a bunch of elderly boomers and disableds with no life will start crying about it at the community board meeting" when you tried to get rid of the bus stops, funny how you pretend to care about old people and the disabled now all of a sudden, except it's not funny it's just disturbing and abhorrent. yimbys are subhuman vermin and should be answered with violence wherever they may appear
also the grousing about how ADA compliance is getting in the way of more profits for rapacious developers, but sure, you totally care about disabled people when you think people will take your bullshit at face value. launch all yimbys into the sun
>>2004314Heysel involved neither fire nor turnstiles, but I take your point that people from Liverpool are essentially vagrants by definition.Unfortunately the technology to contain Liverpool hasn't been implemented.
>>2004321>when you tried to get rid of the bus stopslol what
>>200426120 billion is the operating budget, which funds salaries, pensions, maintenance, etc. That money is what keeps the MTA running as-is. It cannot be diverted to capital projects, and the congestion pricing income by law would go to expanding the subway and commuter lines.>>2004288Anon, I'm begging you, please learn the bare minimum about a subject before posting. $15 billion is the expected income over the next 5 years from congestion pricing tolls. Currently 700k vehicles drive into the congestion zone each day, and initially it's expected congestion pricing will drop that to around 600k vehicles a day. Rough math of 600k*$15 is $9 million a day, $3.285 billion a year, $16.425 billion over 5 years. This is money the MTA has been factoring in to its capital project plans since Congestion Pricing was signed into the budget in 2019.
>>2004334Ignore the troll, he took another troll literally on 4chan of all places and won't shut up about it. It was an older thread about bus stop consolidation.
>>2004321based
>>2004335The government's own estimates suggest $1B per year, not $3B, the $15B comes from a bond program, meaning they'll use the money to go into debt further.Your math assumes a lot of things:>that population will stay static (New York City has lost 500k people since 2019 in estimates, which would only accelerate)>that this only affects people who have cars, and won't raise the price of living in Manhattan since ride-shares, taxis, etc. are charged too, with delivery trucks also paying, so price of food, goods, and services also go up>not factoring in the 5% or so that don't pay tolls>etc.Congestion pricing advocates would be a lot more compelling if they make shit up like Hochul getting money from the auto industry.
>>2004348>The government's own estimates suggest $1B per year, not $3B, the $15B comes from a bond programPoint taken, most coverage on it says simply that congestion pricing will raise $15bn. So to be more accurate, a steady new income stream of $1bn allows MTA to issue $15bn in bonds. That sounds fine to me, especially seeing as without that money, they miss out on $9.9bn in federal funds as well that's also supposed to go towards capital projects.>meaning they'll use the money to go into debt further.Why? The bonds and interest are being paid with their own separate revenue stream, and the system itself is getting much needed upgrades to improve service and reach, thereby boosting ridership.>Pop loss would only accelerateLmao, now who's making assumptions? Most of the people leaving are people who have been priced out, because even as dense as much of NYC is there's Karens that freak over any building taller than 2 stories. Expanding the transit network allows people priced out of NYC and Long Island to still commute from upstate, CT, or NJ.>won't raise the price of living in Manhattan since ride-shares, taxis, etc. are charged tooAnybody who can afford a cab or Uber can afford a $1.25 or $2.50 fare increase respectively, and the drivers themselves are only charged once a day.>with delivery trucks also paying, so price of food, goods, and services also go upNah. Congestion delays already cost companies out the ass in overtime and missed delivery/service windows. $26-34 is a pittance for these companies. It's also designed to encourage them to shift to overnight deliveries, when the charges are much less.>not factoring in the 5% or so that don't pay tollsWrong. The MTA and Comptroller office did factor this in. I didn't bother because I was doing rough napkin math to make a point. 5% of a billion is 50 mil. It's a drop in the bucket on that big of. A funding stream, and the NYPD has started cracking down on toll dodgers anyways.
>>2004335It cost more than 3B for the MTA to build one mile of new line. No matter how rich New York is, this is completely unsustainable. A traditional new line would cost like over 100B dollars, something has to get done with this and instead you put all your attention towards giving even more money to the MTA. At the end of the day it is the taxpayers funding their overspending
>>2004372>It's also designed to encourage them to shift to overnight deliveries, when the charges are much less.That's when many businesses, like restaurants, have no one on site so they'll be paying for the congestion charge in order to get deliveries.Making things cost more doesn't manifest free money
>>2004334what you have to understand is that all yimby shit amounts to is abolish all rules that constrain multi billion dollar private developers, and offer vague giebs to angry zoomers while telling them that it's the fault of disableds, browns, immigrants, homosexuals, socialists, communists, atheists, monetarists, feminists, globalists, vegans, jews, priscillianists, mexicans, arabs, twinks, conservationists, librarians, unitarians, and/or whoever happens to be getting in the way of the latest transfer of public goods into private pocketsIf it sounds weird, wrong, destructive, and batshit crazy, it's probably true if it's coming from a yimby point of viewKill yimbys on sight by bashing their skulls or breaking their necks, they are coming for you next
>>2004335>20 billion is the operating budget, which funds salaries, pensions, maintenance, etc.Maybe the MTA should stop using hundred dollar bills to light their cigarettes instead of stealing even more money from citizens for the crime of driving to work.
>>2004391Pricing cartels among a small group of large developers are harder to sustain when the barrier to entry is low. If the wannabe developers are shutout by ten trillion dollars in legal fees, that gives the few, larger players who can eat that cost upfront the power to set the price for rent without competition.
>>2002331liberals get all in a tiz about appallachia and the upper midwest being poor but reality is quite different. we just don't have a lot of the retarded bullshit like trendy restaurants and gastropubs or whatever, but we like it that way.
>>2004302>Non-American here: why doesn't NYC just install 8ft vertical turnstiles outside stations to prevent vagrants from getting on trains?because they are totally inept.
>>2004335>20 billion is the operating budget, which funds salaries, pensions, maintenance, etc. That money is what keeps the MTA running as-is. It cannot be diverted to capital projects, and the congestion pricing income by law would go to expanding the subway and commuter linesThey need to figure out a way to get that number down. It's completely unsustainable.
>>2004387Anon, think about this. Most of these deliveries are vans and box trucks delivering thousands of dollars worth of goods per delivery, and often making multiple deliveries per trip. A 24-36$ additional charge is a drop in the bucket. If you're a trucking company passing that charge per trip on to the stores you're supplying, assuming you're delivering $5k worth of goods per trip into the zone, the $36 congestion charge is a .72% increase in the total cost for those stores. It's fucking nothing. But don't take my word for it, here's a real world example:>HTTPS://HELLGATENYC.COM/EATER-CONGESTION-PRICING-RESTAURANTS-COVERAGE>in this highest-cost scenario, if Cureau has, say, 2,100 customers each week, and all of her drivers pass those toll costs to her and she passes all of those costs down, then based our calculations, at most, customers would pay roughly $0.15 more per order.Above assumes daytime deliveries by large truck to a low volume bakery who is the sole recipient of the truck's delivery, the highest possible cost scenario. It's fucking nothing.Second, when I worked in a Starbucks decades ago all our deliveries were late at night or early morning, outside of the peak congestion charge times. Many restaurants do function this way, as do many retail stores. It's easier to get deliveries outside of peak customer hours so you aren't interrupting customers when you're stocking shelves.I'll leave it to you to prove from Stockholm's and London's experiences that congestion pricing did materially raise the cost of goods inside the zone.
>>2004496>It's fucking nothing.Then it obviously won't work to deter drivers, and is simply a money making scheme
>>2004499>Then it obviously won't work to deter driversEssentially goods deliveries =/= all drivers you mouthbreathing retard. Experience from London and Stockholm both show that congestion pricing cut down on the number of people driving into the zone, resulting in less traffic blocking deliveries, emergency services, and people willing to pay the charge.>is simply a money making schemeTaxing a limited public resource to fund a more space-efficient and scalable alternative is a good thing. 700k vehicles drive into Manhattan daily. MTA moves around 4 million people a day. You don't want an extra 100k, let alone a million or more, driving downtown.
>>2004512>you mouthbreathing retard.Says more about you than me
>>2004516>n-no uI accept your concession
>>2004518If you are calling people names you don't have a valid argument
>>2004520>say stupid shit>get mocked for it>complain about being mocked >you are on 4chanHow did you even manage to get to this website?
>>2004526>Doubling down on a losing strategyWhy?
>>2004530You tell me bud, you're the one in a huff over getting called a mouthbreathing retard. If you actually had a refutation to the points here >>2004512 you'd have made them instead of bitching like the snowflake you are.
>>2004531>you're the one in a huff>like the snowflake you areI think that's you
>>2004535>he's still seething about being called a mouthbreather on 4chanDamn I hit a nerve with that one
>>2004538>Damn I hit a nerve with that oneYes. Your own
>Choose to live in a major metropolis, one of the financial centers of the world>Get mad at a few slow driving cars in the commercial districtA lot of people who like to derive their identity from living in the big city would much more happy in a small town
>>2004545It's not that the cars are driving slow, it's that they're blocking emergency services, blocking busses, delaying utility and delivery vehicles, and doing dangerous shit that endangers everyone else on the street such as driving in bike lanes, parking on sidewalks which forces pedestrians into the road, the list goes on. Being stuck in traffic also makes the drivers themselves pissed and more likely to do dumb risky shit. The less cars in the city center, the better for literally everyone.
>>2001713New York City, the city with the highest metropolitan GDP on the planet, builds and upholsters it's principle transit arteries in the same style as supermax prison common areas.Millions of residents and tourists are forced to become habituated to these surroundings because the city and state leadership is ideologically opposed to common-sense, low-cost (actually positive returns), passive security measures at stations which would have the effect of preventing homeless, soiled, drug-addled bums from riding all day.Even forcing every passenger to pay is a step too far for the government. Even though that's a totally neutral measure, turnstile design and monitoring is kept deliberately weak to enable widespread fare-dodging for the sole reason of forcing everyone else into close proximity to these people.And when the inevitable happens, as Daniel Penny found out, physical resistance to the abuses of these chosen people is severely punished. They are New York City's sacred cow.
>>2004649Daniel Penny is a clueless jackass cowboy on the same level as those tough guys who shoot each other in the projects over "turf", he belongs in prison with the rest of the scum
>>2004512>resulting in less traffic blocking deliveries, emergency services, and people willing to pay the charge.Wow! When you price people out of transportation, they get priced out of transportation! I never realized this. MAYBE IT'S WHY PEOPLE OPPOSE YIMBY FUCK HEADS LIKE YOU. >Blah blah muh efficiency muh scalable muh induced demandUsing a bunch of meme words doesn't make driving less desirable nor mass transit moreso. The MTA is a piece of shit and removing what little incentive they have to improve by effectively banning their competition is not going to make anything better for anyone except the zillionaires who can still have cars after.
>>2004660>Save civilians from an insane violent bum>Clueless jackassYou're right though, he should have let those people suffer the consequences of their votes.
>>2004660Not a single person who was present on the carriage raised objections at the time to what Penny and others were doing to restrain Neely.You want to punish Penny because you are of the mindset mentioned in the comment you're replying to. You are ideologically opposed to physically preventing homeless bums from abusing everyone around them. Neely's own family had prevented him from doing it to them by kicking him out. He'd used up all good favor with every single family member because he was a violent, drug-addled cretin.
>>2004669>>2004667https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDWo6m5hbG4
>>2004660All Neely did, all day every day, was roam lower Manhattan shouting at, threatening, and assaulting people; including the attempted kidnapping of a 7yo girl.I know that nothing can be said to shake your religious conviction that homeless, drug addicted, attempted kid-fuckers have a human right not to be prevented from fare dodging, I'm saying this for the audience here who might not be convinced that people such as you exist."oh, they mean well, this is just an unintended consequence of their policy preferences" NOPE. It's the point. It's your policy. It is exactly what you want to happen at any and all cost.
>>2004673See >>2004671
Hillbillies have this idea that if you instantly escalate the slightest interpersonal tension to mortal kombat it will somehow make people not run their mouths off in public. We can see from all the flyover state dashcam videos of traffic arguments turning into gun battles that this is not the case. All it does is it turns everyday life into a bloodbath. If you want to live that way, pretty sure there are some towns in northern mexico where you can have it.
>>2004675>hillbillies have this radical notion that immediate physical consequences influence human behaviorThey do. Try being a Neely in Singapore or Tokyo. NYC has this problem precisely because there are no permissible ways to prevent this behavior, or inflict consequences when it occurs. The state has assumed that responsibility and promptly neglected it.Preventing any fare-dodging is the simplest, cheapest, and least violent method of preventing this behavior...and the people crying about Hochul not implementing congestion pricing oppose it, because their goal isn't to reduce congestion.
>>2004684There are too many layers of stupid here, it needs to be the end of the day when there's nothing better to do but go outside and sweat or stay inside and argue with idiots. Maybe I'll come back and entertain you later.
2004687>Has zero arguments>Still acts smugly superior>Is trolling outside /b/
>>2004666>When you price people out of transportationMTA ticket is cheaper than driving into lower Manhattan even without congestion pricing. Congestion Pricing encourages that mode switch.>b-b-but muh shitty MTA>b-b-but muh personal freedumbsYou are free to pay the charge and continue driving into Manhattan. Your money will be used to fund improvements to the MTA ;^)
>>2004768Most of the time no one willingly drives into Manhattan. They drive to Manhattan to get to the bridges and tunnels in New Jersey...which begs the question why isn't the Port Authority doing anything knowing they're going to face more congestion and lower revenues at their crossings? Everything is getting redirected to the GWB and SI Bridges which is going to make the already congested Cross Bronx and I278/Belt even worse.Until you make it better for suburbia to get to their jobs in NYC nothing is going to improve. And there's not a lack of demand to move outside of the city too. Average house in LI/NJ is selling for 20% over asking price on average. This isn't even touching on the transit deserts some areas of NYC are where running more buses isn't going to make a ride that has 70 stops go by faster.
>>2001666I wouldn't go to downtown New York even though it's free. Imagine being the kind of retarded fuck who pays to do that.
I support the slimy Manhattanites that oppose congestion tax but only because they're deadlocking any possibility of legislators doing the same shit in Brooklyn where normal people actually live.
>>2004793>in Brooklyn where normal people actually live.
>>2004796yes suh>Manhattan Population (2020) Total 1,694,250>Brooklyn Population (2020) Total 2,736,074
>>2004793>>2004796>Brooklyn>normal people
>>2004780>Most of the time no one willingly drives into Manhattan. They drive to Manhattan to get to the bridges and tunnels in New Jersey.This is how I know none of you idiots actually know anything about how NYC's congestion pricing system was going to work. Nobody within the zone is charged for leaving the zone. Nobody taking FDR drive around lower Manhattan gets charged the congestion fee. They only get charged if they get off FDR below 60th street.>Until you make it better for suburbia to get to their jobs in NYC nothing is going to improve. And there's not a lack of demand to move outside of the city too. Average house in LI/NJ is selling for 20% over asking price on averageSounds like it's on the NJ governor to build more rail into NYC then. Not NYC's problem.>This isn't even touching on the transit deserts some areas of NYC areExpress bus services are a thing. If fucking Austin can do it, NYC should be able to.
>>2004817>none of you idiots actually know anything about how NYC's congestion pricing system was going to workYou don't know shit and I don't know shit because the unelected officials and the 1 summer intern doing all the work at the MTA will say literally anything to get money.https://gothamist.com/news/which-drivers-get-tolled-under-congestion-pricing-on-the-brooklyn-and-queensboro-bridges-its-complicated
>>2004817And this is how I know you have never actually driven in NYC.This is the route that the Holland Tunnel usually takes you through. Not sure if you noticed but the fastest route from Queens and Brooklyn to Jersey is often in a straight line if you're going to somewhere like Meadowlands Stadium. This means cutting through midtown or lower Manhattan, no sense to loop around the island on the FDR.And saying >Not NYCs problem Isn't going to help commercial RE in Manhattan or NYC's tax base relying on commuters from suburbia. New Jersey and Long Island residents working in NYC still pay NYC income and sales taxes. NYC is going to go into a death cycle, WFH was the first nail in the coffin because now they lost revenue from commuters from suburbia.>Express Bus ServicesYeah they still suck in Queens and Staten Island even with dedicated bus lanes, and don't solve the final mile problem (IE getting to/from the station or working hours that the express bus doesn't run, it's a 24/7 city remember?)
>>2004820>>Express Bus ServicesForget about express busses. When I come back from a concert at midnight the buses are always 40 minutes away so I save my $2.90 and just outwalk it instead.I also outwalk the trains when I get to/from work. I live 2 miles away and walk 3-3.5 mph, it takes me about 40 minutes. I shouldn't be getting to work faster than my coworkers taking a train route advertised as 38 minutes on google maps but I do it all the time.
>>2004819>And this is how I know you have never actually driven in NYC.I cannot think of a worse fate desu, which is why I've only ever used cabs when I needed to go somewhere and didn't want to deal with a bus transfer.Your article literally says all of this has been known since 2019. I don't know why anybody is surprised according to that article, for the Brooklyn Bridge -> FDR South example you hit a light at Pearl Street before getting on FDR. So yes, you'd get the congestion toll because you're going onto a surface street (Pearl) before getting onto FDR. >the fastest route from Queens and Brooklyn to Jersey is often in a straight line if you're going to somewhere like Meadowlands StadiumDowntown is not your personal freeway to the sportsball game.>Isn't going to help commercial RE in Manhattan or NYC's tax base relying on commuters from suburbia.You are absolutely deluded. Manhattan alone has a population of 1.6 million people. Brooklyn is 2.6 million. No places in Manhattan are reliant on commuters driving in from NJ, the population density is there to support it.>This means cutting through midtown or lower Manhattan, no sense to loop around the island on the FDRYeah that's the point. Stay on the highway instead of gumming up the surface streets. >BussesSounds like you need to lobby your councilcritter for more bus service late at night. With congestion pricing revenue the MTA could actually afford it.>>2004825Tbh I'm not surprised, the subway is running on old as shit signaling and power infrastructure that can't support the headways they're trying to run. Congestion Pricing was going to fund upgrades to those systems.
>>2004831Realized I posted the pic of the Lincoln Tunnel, but here's the Holland Tunnel. All you had to do is look at a map to realize why theres so much traffic on Canal Street and lower Manhattan. And I'm just talking about commuters, never mind the YIMBYs who need their same day Amazon Prime deliveries, Uber/Lyfts from LES to the Knockdown Center, Doordash and Freshdirect deliveries, and the support infrastructure/network needed to enable the delivery app lifestyle.>No places in Manhattan are reliant on commuters driving in from NJYeah because Manhattan is the only borough right? Again, it's reddit urbanists forgetting NYC consists of more than Manhattan below 96th Street and North Brooklyn. I can't go to Jersey from Queens and vice versa without having to cut through Manhattan. Every workplace in NYC has at least one (if not 1/3rd or 1/2 of) the workforce living in Jersey.The most efficient form is a straight line. It's not doing a loop around the city. That's why the Lincoln Tunnel runs parallel to the Queens Midtown Tunnel/Queensboro Bridge and the Holland Tunnel is parallel to the Brooklyn/Manhattan Bridge and Battery Tunnel. You're moving the congestion out of Manhattan and burdening it onto the outer boroughs. But fuck those rubes in Staten Island/Brooklyn and poors in the Bronx right?
>>2004832I can't even go fucking Brooklyn-Queens without passing through Manhattan on public transit that shit pisses me off anon.>inb4 congestion money will somehow materialize interborough express out of my ass in 500 yearsWe haven't even talked about how there are no SI-BK ferries even though IT'S RIGHT THERE.>boomer city planners made Manhattan the center of the universe and today we're shocked when people act accordingly
>>2004831>Congestion Pricing was going to fund upgrades to those systems.Too bad
>>2004831>Congestion Pricing was going to fund upgrades to those systems.I like how people think that congestion pricing was going to go to actually upgrading the subway and not just be redirected to pensions and bureaucracy. Is it even "congestion pricing" if it actually has nothing do with road supply and demand, and just redirects to the MTA?
>>2004885>>2005029The duality of a man lol.
>>2005029>I like how people thinkYIMBYs aren't people.
>>2001712she literally ruined her political legacy and ruined the lives of millions of new yorkers for decades just to appease some republicans from New Jersey who would never vote for her anyway
>>2001726go back to Long Island
>>2005432None of the polls in New York were in favor of the "congestion pricing" tax, the only ones that were in favor of it were a small group of faggy Manhattanites who couldn't even gather a crowd of a few hundred people in protest, most of which were tourists.
>>2004302There is no physical barrier which will stop a determined criminal, really the only way is to visibly enforce the law to deter them. Fare evaders/subway pissers getting the shit kicked out of them in public, spending time in jail then being banned from the subway afterwards would help far more than any new barrier.
>>2005434You just love to be wrong don't you
>>2001728>I thought they wanted shorter commute timesbut then how would they complain about gas prices?
