What do you think about the new plan to tunnel under the 401 highway in Toronto?They want to build trains and additional express lanes underneath along a stretch of about 40km of an 15-20 lane highwayOver 500,000 vehicles use this stretch of road per day
>>2019989Isn't the Gardiner Expressway in dire need of a rebuild? Seems like a better place to start since a rebuild could add capacity.
>>2019991The Gardiner is more politically controversial to re-develop because a good portion of the city council wants it completely gone and replaced with condos
>>2019992Hmm I see. What makes 401 so heavily used? It's got a bypass to the north, so is 401 mostly local traffic & commuters or is a lot of it through traffic?
>>2019993The 407 is a transponder tolled highway owned by a private company, so going the same distance would cost you approximately $20-25 each trip depending if you own a transponder or not. Like you mentioned the Gardiner is undergoing repairs so it periodically closes and creates traffic congestion. It's generally the fastest east-west route in ideal conditions to cross the city and connects to every other major highway, the airport, and continues onwards towards Detroit in the West and Montreal in the East. There are several feeder commuter highways that feed directly into it in the GTA in a spoke shape.For through traffic it's also the primary east-west corridor for hauling goods long-distance across that corridor. There is also a very high concentration of warehouses in Mississauga and Brampton (West end of the stretch) around the airport which are the foundation for a lot of Ontario's regional supply chain and logistics networks. If I had to guess the only one that could be bigger in the country would be the area around the port of Montreal.About half of Canada's population lives along the entire length it and would use it regularly (once a year or more).
>>2019989The latest retardation from Doug Ford. It will never happen.
>>2019989While it's a fun idea to imagine, it'll never happen. Line 5 started construction in 2011 and is still not finished. This is the fate of all construction projects in toronto.
>>2019989If it's cut-and-cover, then it might be possible.If it's TBM, then HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.I'm already considering running a special interest group against this dumb shit, targeting the GTA suburbs. How does "More Highway, More Traffic" sound as a catch phrase? Then the mailers would be, "More Highway, More Traffic on [your local arterial road]" and photographs of cars lining up for the ramps of that specific road closest to the address.
>>2019992>The Gardiner is more politically controversial to re-developIt's also got existing streets underneath in a few places.Also, Jesus wept! How much exposed rebar is there in those support structures? Saw some in two out of three places I looked; the other didn't because that bridge was rusty steel girders instead. If it doesn't get some proper maintenance, it might cast a deciding vote for collapse.
>>2020042Toronto already has the worst traffic out of any major city in North America and has the highest population growth rate, not sure that you're going to convince anyone that induced demand is a bigger problem.
>>2020046it has the worst traffic because the transit hasn't caught up with it's explosive growth, highway widening barely works, not just induced demand but a little thing called bottlenecks which, well you can't have a 10 lane highway in your downtown so they happen no matter what.
>>2020042>How does "More Highway, More Traffic" sound as a catch phrase?Sounds like you're trying to sucker in retards that believe that freeways will just become busy independent of new growth. What's in it for you?
Yes to the trains, but lol at the additional express lanes.If you have a highway that wide only an idiot would think that more lanes is the answer.
>>2019989Just remove half the lanes from this monstrosity and use those the space for rail tracks and some noise dampening walls.
>>2020071>>2020068>Build trains to nowhere>Reduce the size of the roads because I hate cages
>>2020071Lol based. A city Toronto’s size could make good use of at-grade rail.
>>2020068Wait til anon learns that every country that's "good" at building public transit also has 20 lane commuter highways
>>2020088You're probably assuming these are passengers trains.The 401 weaves through some of the dwindling employment lands in Toronto proper. There are large commercial centres like malls. While industrial uses have declined a bit (e.g. Bombardier Downsview relocated), a lot of those commercial parks could effortless redevelop into industrial uses. That would also make for a dedicated freight rail link to Pearson Airport.It could also connect with CPKC on the west side of Toronto, and both CPKC and CN on the east side of Toronto. And if it's owned (and possibly operated) by the government, maybe it can avoid the shitty under-investment that both do. Would be neat if it were light EMU's intermixed with passenger service, so you see a tiny freight train zip past the platform in between GO trains.
>>2020110>That would also make for a dedicated freight rail link to Pearson Airport.There is basically zero freight that moves from air to rail and vice-versa. Local & regional passenger service is what would make the most sense. Looks like there's a decent passenger rail operation to the airport now, not sure what plans they have for the future.
>>2020111Because freight as it is today is run slowly on massive trains.But if this line is run as a replacement for trucking, with frequent service using small trains and automated train control, to deliver loads on the same time scale as trucking, then you'd see a different client base build up around these connections.e.g. Amazon sorting and distribution hubs, that already try to collocate with the highway network
>>2020114>Because freight as it is today is run slowly on massive trains.It's always been that way. Air-rail cargo is such a small market segment it may as well be an afterthought. A re-imagining of the system with "small trains and automated control" is wishful thinking at best. Any rail connection to an airport should serve people.
>>2020091I wonder what motivated you to pull this out of your ass.
>>2020118Not that anon but he's kind of right. Places like Europe and Japan do have at least semi-competent highway systems, which are widened as needed.Remember, the line about "it's where the rich use public transit" was made by a mayor of some South American shithole.
>>2020132You’re also wrong lmao. Not everywhere with good public transit has 20-lane commuter highways. In fact the vast majority of highways in Europe are just 2 lanes and restricted to the countryside. You really need to see the world outside the US someday.
As an Atlantan I can confirm that having massive highways like that in the middle of your city does jack shit to help traffic flow. We have 16-lane freeways in the middle of the city and it’s a nightmare to drive in.
>>2020139>You’re also wrong lmao.I get the feeling you're not really lmaoing
>>2020139>Not everywhere with good public transit has 20-lane commuter highwaysAnon was exaggerating about the "twenty-lane highway" part. If you actually paid attention to what's going on Europe and not just YouTube videos, however, they are engaging in urban freeway widening and construction projects. In Amsterdam, for instance, A9 is being widening to eight lanes from six (specifically citing "relieving congestion"). In Copenhagen, E47 went from a four-lane road to an eight-lane road in the early 2010s, and in Berlin, an extension of A100 cutting through East Berlin is currently under construction, adding a six-lane highway. There's probably other examples too.
>>2020146That’s one city, not every country with good public transit. I’m glad you admitted that guy was full of shit though. Good to know we’re on the same page.
>>2020158He listed 3 cities
>>2019994It's more like double that, I used to drive a van commercially and Brampton to Markham would cost like $40 since it was during peak hours. Still cheaper than paying me overtime and factoring the loss of time from late or inconsistent deliveries. What shocked me is how busy it can get around 8am, you'll have 5 lanes with a constant stream of cars side by side.>>2020047Widening works, it's the bottlenecks like you said. Maybe it's stockholm syndrome kicking in, but I don't find the 401 to be too bad of a commute if there's no major accident or snow. Major exception being around the 427 junction. The collectors gets cut off in that area and everyone has to merge into express, and the 427 dumping cars on just compounds the problem. I have a vendetta against the 403 from Hamilton Skyway to Oakville. Cops just love to pull reckless drivers over, then close every lane but 1 to impound them and cause literally 15km of stop and go traffic. That stretch has taken me 90+ minutes multiple times, in a manual car to boot.
>>2020158Rodderdam has a 17 lane highway
>>2020114>But if this line is run as a replacement for truckingTo do that you need to build rail access directly to factories and warehouses which means it won't be.
>>2020146Those aren’t ten lanes and those aren’t the majority. I’m glad we can agree that post was laughably full of shit.
>>2020175Did you see this: >>2020143
>>2019989>What do you think about the new plan to tunnel under the 401 highway in Toronto?Would be interesting considering that stretch through Toronto is the busiest stretch of highway in the world. If there was a candidate for a novel multi-layer highway solution this would probably be it.
>>2020175https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfHqB2SVR-o
I want to see the province go bankrupt building something that won't even make a difference on traffic
Won't fix the clusterfuck of poorly designed on-ramps, off-ramps, highway interchanges, and collector/express ramps. Look up photos of highway 401 from the 50s and you'll notice that they haven't bothered to adjust anything since and then think that adding more lanes will fix these 70+ year old choke points.
>>2024215It's not highway design, it's exponential population growth
I think you could replace that urban freeway with housing, rail and bike lanes and make it obsolete.
>>2024217>Just replace the busiest highway in the world with bike lanes and more condos to solve traffic
>>2024216Its fucking JeetsI wonder how the 407 would change if it wasnt tolled or at least less expensive
>>2024234It would turn into the 401 overnight
>>2020114why use small trains for short distances when you could much easilier use trucks?
>>2020140oakland has a bunch of freeways zipping through the downtown area and it has relieved a lot of the trafffic from surface streets
>>2020140>do minimal upgrades to infrastructure even though population doubles>wonder why it doesn't seem to fix issues
>>2024732Lmao Atlanta does maximal highways expansions and the traffic sucks ass. Even driving short distances will get you caught in nightmare traffic. Designing for pedestrians over cars would make trips shorter for most people.
>>2024744>Lmao Atlanta does maximal highways expansionsThe only expansions in the last two decades have been rebuilding antiquated interchanges that badly needed it and adding express toll lanes. "Lmao">Designing for pedestrians over cars would make trips shorter for most people.How?
