In the case of NYC it mainly benefits the elite who can afford to live there by better air quality on the terraces of their 100mil+ penthouses.
The people who pay it are working people namely contractors and service workers who need to get there to to their jobs.
It's called regressive taxation which means it's not just unethical but also hampers the economy because more money in the hands of the elite won't circulate but more money in the hand of working people will.

>>2026973
>regressive taxation
That's quite the grasp. The poor are the only ones that use public transit in America. And poor neighborhoods are welcome to install their own higher congestion tax to move traffic back into Manhattan.

>>2026975
nta but they didn't say "poor" they said "working people". why is it that you people say "omg he can afford to take 6 days off a year without becoming homeless, he's basically an oligarch" when you're fighting policies primarily aimed at making life easier on people who make under $100k, but you wring your hands at the "class warfare socialism" when someone else opposes a policy that only benefits literal oligarchs who own $30 million pied a terres in tribeca that they use three days a year

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I don't know how congestion zones work because I'm not a thirdie. How are these enforced? Is there like a camera at every entrance/exit that records your license?

>>2026981
Every piece of your argument is such extensive strawman that I have to think that there's 0 truth to your side.

>>2026973
>The people who pay it are working people namely contractors and service workers who need to get there to to their jobs.
No service worker/wagie drives into Manhattan let alone in a truck. Tradies can just tack on an additional "congestion fee" to their bill. Your hand-wringing is gay.

>>2026991
>Workers can just tack on the congestion fee... TO YOU!
You're a real dumbass, you know that?

>>2026991
>nobody needs to do anything in manhattan, the super takes care of that
underage detected

>>2026969
The auto industry loses money. That's it. That's why there's so many shills trying to stop it.

Nothing, cagers just screech nonstop and think they have the right to ruin every city center.

>>2027009
>>2027020
Cagetrolls BTFO again, Chang!

>>2026973
>*adds 24 dollars to the bill*
wasn't so hard now was it?

>>2026992
>>2026999
Literally ignoring the salient point that wagies dont drive into manhattan; stay mad, turbofaggots

why do taxies pay so little

>>2027031
>It's okay to pay more for everyday services because the government needs to get its cut.

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>>2027035
>surface streets reaching maximum saturation
>literally no way to increase supply of roads because its lower fucking manhattan
>only logical next step is curtailing demand
>this confuses and angers the retard

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>>2027026
This schizo needs a name. I dub him Schizina.

Is Chang in the room with us now, Schizina?

>>2027031
Wagies and hourlies do in fact drive into manhattan though, you are just wildly out of touch, as expected of this board. I had a job with a contractor as a kid driving in and out of manhattan with a station wagon full of equipment. Those kinds of people aren't broke, but they are working class, and it's perfectly on brand for /n/ to want to put a tax on them so that the ultra-wealthy can have nicer air.

>>2027033
urbanists like op need their uber/lyfts to ferry them between brooklyn and manhattan especially when the g train runs once every hour on weekend nights

watch special exemptions for ups/amazon/fedex/doordash in the next year too

this whole congestion charge is a giant fuck you to everyone who doesnt live within 1/2 a mile of a subway stop

>>2027045

my environmental consulting job had me driving my moms minivan everyday from queens to manhattan or sometimes even jersey/rockland with a trunk full of air sampling equipment to measure air quality at construction sites

i was making $18-25/hr until i got a job for the city and quit, they usually paid for my parking but still doesnt mean i want to give free money to the mta who can't even make people who use the system pay for it.

i went to mexico city last week and even the mexicans weren't beating fares unless they wanted to get tackled by a transit cop (usually hanging out at the turnstiles)

>>2027045
Please refer to >>2026991 - and before you continue your pearl-clutching Im both a tradie and a motorist. Our costs literally get foisted onto the customer (one reason why a regular oil change in 2024 costs as much as a synthetic change in 2017) - also the wealthy (((socialites))) who live in Manhattan can take a slight uptick in costs on the chin when it comes to having to pay a plumber/electrician/HVAC tech.
[Verifcation not required]

>>2027049
the only problem with your theory is that there's a whole peninsula to the east of manhattan that has to go through manhattan to join the rest of the country, and most of the people on that peninsula arent wealthy socialites

routing them all through the bronx/staten island is just redistributing traffic onto the outerboroughs

>>2027053
Congestion pricing only applies to surface streets below 60th - Staten islandlets can still take the bayonne bridge wothout getting dinged

>>2027043
Not that anon but they already reduced supply with road diets/bike lanes. Unfortunately, since induced demand doesn't actually work the way this board thinks it does it didn't make traffic vanish into the ether.

>>2027059
Is the induced demand in the room with us right now anon?

>>2027054
>BZZT, Citizen you deviated from your expected route into Zone Prime 001, a fee has been deducted from your account.
How utterly dystopian. Freedumb aint free lmao.

>>2026969
What's wrong with congestion pricing is that it's a tax with zero ethical grounds. People pay yearly registration taxes, gas taxes, and other such infrastructure taxes which give them every right to use the public roads. The government doesn't own every dollar you make and graciously allow you to keep some, your money is YOURS unless there's a really good reason to take it from you. And no, "this zillionaire socialite wants quiet streets in the Tribeca walk-up they only use four days a year" is not a good reason.

>>2027043
>logical next step is curtailing demand
Then build more/better ways around Manhattan for Long Islanders or Queensfags trying to get to Jersey, or Staten Islanders trying to get upstate

>>2027054
Nice reading comprehension, retard, now address the fact that the GWB and SIE are just as log jammed as Manhattan streets, and taking the Lincoln/Holland tunnels out of the equation isn't going to help.

>2027062
>pretending to be ignorant of the constant "people will stop driving if we force--i mean provide--alternatives!" argument from numtits

>>2027064
>Government builds the roads
>tells you when and where to park on its roads
>the speed at which you may travel on its roads
>already monitors any and all who travels on its roads with CCTV
>REEEEEE CONGESTION PRICING IS TYRANNY
Or just ride a bike and dispense with that bullshit you stupid homo
>>2027065
Acknowledging that on the same footprint/ROW you can tramsport more people and freight with subway/rail than with cars and trucks is not a conspiracy to push the "induced demand" buzzword which I hear tossed around more as a boogeyman for dipshits like yourself, as if getting people out of cars is more radical than
>build more/better ways around Manhattan for Long Islanders or Queensfags trying to get to Jersey, or Staten Islanders trying to get upstate
Which sounds like an efficient use of space, time, and money you fucking cretin

>>2026969
The problem really is the truck charges, that is going to make all goods in the congestion zone absurdly expensive due to delivery cost.

>>2026969
>What exactly is wrong with congestion pricing in general?
It requires a massive fuck you in the ass intrusive surveillance system to run and that has big overhead and potential for abuse. It's the same line of thinking as trying to turn every single road and walkway into a toll, and every celphone into a tattler on traffic and motion.

There's a benefit to free movement of people and money, and letting free market principles balance out demand, rather than putting up tarrifs fences and borders everywhere. It's a clumsy and misguided command economy.

>>2027094
>It's a clumsy and misguided command economy.
The fuck? This is the exact fucking opposite. It's a hyper-capitalist, "prove your trip generates enough economic activity to justify taking space away from actually valuable economic activity."
How can you call people first-come-first-serve on the limited road space anything other than communism? It's literally a fucking bread queue.
Enjoy lining up for hours for your government ration of road use.

>>2026975
>And poor neighborhoods are welcome to install their own higher congestion tax to move traffic back into Manhattan.
They are not. You need state and federal approval to do this.

>>2027043
It won't reduce traffic. It won't curtail demand, as poor people stop driving in, there will be less traffic and it will encourage more rich people to drive in. Induced demand, traffic will remain the same but the average income of car drivers will increase.

Also, majority of traffic in the congestion zone is Rideshare and Taxi which is effectively exempt from the tax.

>>2027116
>it will encourage more rich people to drive in.
As if rich people weren't already driving in?

>>2027092
>efficient use of space, time, and money
If you look at where the money goes in the MTA around half of it is administration costs (extremely high). Why not do cutbacks in bloated admin costs and instantly free up budget for transit improvements rather than wring citizens for even more money?

>>2027124
What?! Are you insane?! We need these administrators and programs. They're important sources of employment for the invalids, the incompetent, and other elements of the lumpenprole. It's a human right that these people receive a government job for life.

>>2026975
This will massively increase price of goods in the congestion zone though, which will affect poorer people disproportionately as they're less able to go elsewhere for their goods, and will affect smaller businesses disproportionately as they're less able to pay the massively inflated delivery costs.

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>>2027125
urbanists:
>nooo you can't just have rules! real estate development corps should be able to do what they want including lead paint and no fire codes! who cares if millions of kids grow up with brain damage and can't do anything useful? all these rules are impeding progress!
urbanists:
>whoa why are there all these brain damaged adults who can't function in society? you can't just let people rob and steal! the government should stop this!
also urbanists:
>noooo you can't just give handouts! those people should have to work like anyone else!
also urbanists:
>noooo you can't just give people jobs! that's socialism, they should be left to their own devices!
also urbanists:
>nooo why are all these people homeless! someone needs to do something!
also urbanists
>whoa why do we have a per capita incarceration rate that rivals xinjiang? quick, give more money to corporations!
rinse and repeat

It’ll generate a lot of revenue and ridership for transit.

>>2027092
>You're already getting fucked in the ass, why NOT put spikes on the dildo?

>>2027108
When the government makes you pay them money, that's not capitalism. Words have meanings, you don't get to just redefine them on the fly.

>>2026969
>Most people in NYC don't drive so they shouldn't subsidize roads
But everyone benefits from the transportation network, regardless if the personally drive. And in any case, if people got to opt out of taxes for services they don't use then most services would collapse immediately

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>>2026969
public transit is slow as shit in nyc and full of violent retards and troons and no I am not exaggerating. the congestion shit is unpopular as fuck with the majority of the city to the point where the governor delayed it because it would have caused a bunch of dems to lose their jobs in the election.

>>2026982
I don’t commute to NY, but they might be enforced at the bridges. As you can see from the map, Manhattan is an island so it’s easy to require tolls on bridge crossings from the surrounding areas.

>>2026969
>Most people in NYC don't drive so they shouldn't subsidize roads.
cool, by your logic people shouldn't subsidize mass transit or bike lanes

>>2027152
The fucking fuck are you talking about? Every capitalist government has taxes.
Funny enough, the only way a government can run without taxes is if they have a state corporation that pay their profits into government revenue. You see this mostly in oil-producing countries these days. Though I believe Egypt also funds their military largely through state monopolies on things like gasoline.

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>>2027152
>>You're already getting fucked in the ass, why NOT put spikes on the dildo
>He said on a board devoted to solutions to not getting fucked in the ass, in a thread discussing discouraging people getting fucked in the ass.
>Actually getting fucked in the ass is great, until people get charged slightly more for the privilege
>If youre not in favor of a culture of forced assfucking youre a commie/troon/third-worlder

>>2027177
Ah yes, the "we just want alternatives" argument on a thread that involves paying an extra toll to drive to fund the perpetually broke mass transit system.

>>2027180
Hey if you enjoy getting assfucked dont let me rain on your (pride) parade - you do you boo

Once this is in place I hope there's a few hundred chuds with tape on their plates running coal through the """zone""".
Or better yet a few elevator repair companies deciding to just no longer do business in the area.

>>2027176
You know full well what he's talking about you disingenous nigger. Bullshit arbitrary taxes are the very first thing you anti-capitalist kikes implement.

>>2027177
>a board devoted to solutions to not getting fucked in the ass, in a thread discussing discouraging people getting fucked in the ass
Ah yes, freedom is slavery, off-topic urbanist tranny spam is heterosexual.

>>2027188
>off-topic urbanist tranny spam is heterosexual.
Hey dont look at me, >>2027152 is the one who compared being a motorist to getting fucked in the ass.
Or as Ive already mentioned just ride a bike to avoid the red tape but thats trannypilled or something according to you guys. I dont know why you come to a board on transportation to expound your homosexual fantasies/ideas.

>>2026969
>6969
>Nice

I was in NYC lately and the level of butthurt over this is actually comical. Know one guy who actually drives into Manhattan to work fairly often, so for him I kind of get it. But there's this other dude who's never owned a car in his life and the tv still gets him fired up as shit about it. Muh freedoms etc. Meanwhile he also bitches without cease about traffic, how slow and expensive the bus is... confounding. Contrary to popular belief, NYC is mostly not that different politcally from a trailer park in Nebraska. Everybody shrieks about "welfare queens" and any new taxes but somehow simulataneously, unironically believes that they're entitled to all the things the government has to give THEM and, actually, that they should be getting more

>>2027191
More proof that "Democratic" blue cities are anything but, the corrupt bureaucratic class owns the government in these places and any votes against their agenda or for someone who would check their power are simply not counted.

>>2026969
Crazy that the Yanks fought us because of a 2% tax, and now they just find new ways to tax their own.

It's almost like hypocritical treason.

>>2027201
Bro London has had a congestion charge since 2003, don't pretend your government isn't far more totalitarian.

>>2027204
>London has had a congestion charge since 2003
And did it work?
mwhahaha lmao

>>2027176
>Every capitalist government has taxes.
Just because they call themselves capitalist doesn't make it so. The official name for North Korea is "The DEMOCRATIC People's Republic of Korea" but that doesn't make it democratic or for the people. An Ayn Rand capitalist would call taxation theft and/or tyranny, and whatever social programs it benefits "socialism". I'm not saying pure capitalism is good, but a government taking money from citizens doesn't fit the definition.

>>2027190
>compared being a motorist to getting fucked in the ass.
Getting fucked in the ass by the government. And I'll still lube up rather than endure pubtrans until that improves significantly. Doesn't mean I enjoy getting my wallet gaped, and it CERTAINLY means I don't appreciate an attempt to make it any worse. It's just that arguments about
>previous taxes
>high tolls
>ridiculous "no parking" zones that apply on M,W,Th,F but not Tu,Sa,Su unless it's the second full moon of the season and raining, etc
don't magically make increased punishments for existing any better. Just because gun owners didn't boogaloo over the NFA doesn't mean they would appreciate all guns being banned.

>>2027234
"Real" capitalism doesn't exist just as communism. What a surprise! Yet there'snoless democracy in North Korea than in the us.

>>2027176
>Every capitalist government
Every government has taxes.
Yes, at the moment there's not a a single state in the world that is not capitalist. But in the past there were. And, surprise!, they also collected taxes.

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>>2027172
What about like London for example

>>2027235
>And I'll still lube up rather than endure pubtrans
Pretty much stopped reading there lol
Also, you forgot
>Bikes
>Walking

>>2027177
>youre a commie
Implying commies are not the only living beings on this planet worthy of being called human.

>>2027320
Keep seething.

>>2027244
the ulez is a purer form of preventing the poor from driving. With just a congestion charge a "poor" can budget for when he wants or needs to drive in the congestion charge area, with the ulez he needs a whole new car.
>>2026982
I believe the roads surrounding the zone are open, if you were to turn off them into the interior of Manhattan camera enforcement charges you. I believe that there will be some sort of bridge/tunnel toll + congestion charge discount
>>2027033
taxis/uber are public transport. But they also take up space. I'd imagine that the price is there to ask the passenger: "Is this more convenient then the subway?" I can't imagine a 1.25/2.50 fare increase once changing my habit, but the change is at the margin.

>>2027191
yimbys who have never lived in a city don't get it because they think it's "humans vs cars" and anyone who doesn't drive must have a deep seated desire to punish drivers whereas all we want is a fair system that makes things safe and efficient for non-drivers, which this is not

>the people pretending like millions of wagies drive into manhattan every day
only 1/3 of new york drives to work and that includes outer queens and staten island, shut the fuck up you stupid ass bay ridge cagecucks

>>2027382
Again, the problem is not people driving to work being taxed, it's all goods coming into or through Manhattan being taxed. It's going to make everything people who live or work in Manhattan (and possibly Brooklyn and parts of Queens as well) purchase way more expensive.

>>2027383
there should be hundreds of barges plying up and down the hudson delivering goods from the mainland to manhattan
it doesnt even make sense to drive an 18 wheeler in new york

>>2027384
*in manhattan
goods to long island can travel on the 3 highway connections it has to the bronx bypassing long island

>>2027246
Neither of those are viable form of transportation for anyone who's not a NEET. This is just a motte and bailey fallacy for trannies like you to attack cars and shill for government regulatory capture while you pretend to be a nootral bystander.

>>2027384
This is sillier than the idea of forcing trucks to load things into train terminals. Adding arbitrary load/unload to logistics drives up the cost and time to get to a destination, and it's not like Manhattan doesn't already have a problem with expensive, wilted produce.

>>2027411
>calls people tranny
>is tacitly on the side of "I want to get fucked in the ass"
What did he mean by this?

>>2027429
>if I call him a tranny that'll deflect from me being a faggot!
Once again take it up with >>2027235 and >>2027152 its not my job to keep you up to speed on the conversation, homo <@:^)

Why stop there? We should make Cagies pay back EVERYTHING they cost society. It would solve the problem overnight.

>>2027027
>t. price elasticity of demand for less urgent services (majority)
>t. monopolistic competitors market structure

>>2026969
motorbikes should be exempt like in London, how the fuck do motorbikes cause congestion?

>>2026969
>What exactly is wrong with congestion pricing
It's less the idea and more the overall price. If it was just a couple bucks more expensive than a subway ticket, it would be annoying but tolerable. It being 15 bucks means if you have to into in the zone for your job, even briefly, you have to pay 15 bucks a day, which is 75 bucks a week.

>>2027533
>motorbikes should be exempt like in London, how the fuck do motorbikes cause congestion?
Motorbikes don't cause congestion, but bikers have money that the MTA can extract, and they don't have a powerful lobbying arm, so they are not exempt.

>>2026969
I forsee a lot of BOH kitchen workers on/just below 60th having to cart deliveries several blocks to save their boss a few dollars.

>>2027658
Cringe. How old are you? 7?

>>2027658
Commies and CEOs are both evil, and when they collaborate (as they often do these days unfortunately) they create giga evil.

>>2027670
>Anteaters and termites are both evil, and when they collaborate (as they often do these days unfortunately) they create giga evil.
You're retarded.
also /transportation/?

how do people do this
>congestion pricing will eliminate traffic
>congestion pricing will raise so much revenue we can do everything
at the same time lol

>>2027717
because Manhattan is in a certain sense the centre of the universe, you have almost infinite demand. You can raise the price until the traffic is free flowing at rush hour, at that price point you have almost infinite revenue.
But I doubt $15 is enough to impact congestion.

>>2027720
>You can raise the price until the traffic is free flowing at rush hour, at that price point you have almost infinite revenue
"Free flowing at rush hour" means almost everyone has moved out. Thinking taxes are "infinite revenue" is retarded under any circustance.

>>2027031
>wagies dont drive into manhattan

Yeah retard, next time your pipes burst the plumber is going to ride in on the subway or bicycle

>>2027798
Hello dipshit you missed >>2026991
Contractors will just charge more, unless youre really concerned that Mr. Noseberg is getting dinged with a bigger bill.

>>2027767
Then we lower the price until we have traffic again. No biggie. The Laffer curve is real

>>2027804
>No biggie.
The forces setting rates have no reason to care or optimize for that. Once the assfucking machine is in place, asses will get fucked for the sake of assfucking. Protection of revenue above any negative externaltities.

>>2027767
Just even the way the proposition is framed is indicative of disaster.

Wendover is shilling for it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2j-LgcA7Gk
it boils down to
>yes it's elitist but
The only valid argument is that IF the revenue from it flows into the MTA budget public transportation can improve.
And for that I'd say just allot a bigger budget and if the city needs money tax property, that's ethical and can't be circumvented because buildings don't move.

>>2028164
>The only valid argument is that IF the revenue from it flows into the MTA budget public transportation can improve.
It won't, it will disappear under "administration costs" with zero improvement in the actual system

There aren't any poor people in Manhattan except a few retards living in rent control and welfare Kweens who don't work

>>2028427
How cucked do you have to bitch about rent controlled apartments? Lmao do you want to work for your Landlord slave?

>>2028435
>>2028427
rent control hasn't been a thing in decades, there's like 3 rent control units left in the entire city and their occupants will be dead by the end of the next covid surge

rent stabilization is what you people probably mean and even then, the majority of rent stabilized units are being rented out below the official rent stabilized rate at what is called a preferential rent, where the owner reports a higher rent to the rent stab board for calculating the annual increase, so they can be deregulated sooner. for practical purposes all it means is it's somewhat harder to kick out a tenant. you can cherry pick a few buildings where the true rent and the reported rent are the same but the widespread perception that rent stabilization is ruining the housing stock is a yimby lie, what's ruining it is that the only time the city will ever step in and break some kneecaps is if it's a 90 year old puerto rican lady struggling to pay her property taxes on her one townhouse in the bronx where she lives in the top floor and rents out the basement, in that case they'll gladly expropriate because small time property owners are a "public nuisance", but if it's an absentee slumlord who owns 30 150-unit multifamily properties overrun with rats and leaks they'll ignore it because interference is communism and communism doesn't work

>>2028445
im pretty sure your children can inherit rent controlled units

https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyork.us/resources/faqs/rent-control/#how

>Yes. While rent control and rent stabilization both involve rent regulation, they have different sets of regulations. According to the 2023 NYC Housing and Vacancy Survey (HVS), there are about 24,020 rent controlled apartments and about 960,600 rent stabilized apartments.

still agree with no one actually lives in work island past 96th street, harlem/washington heights might as well just be a extension of the bronx

>>2026991
>Contractors charge more
>And Delivery people
>And anyone who transports goods into lower Manhattan
>Actually everything becomes more expensive now
Oh oops, now all of Manhattan is a playground for the hyper rich and nobody else.

>>2028449
>Oh oops, now all of Manhattan is a playground for the hyper rich and nobody else.
The proposal is for lower manhattan, specifically below 60th street which is pretty much a playground for the rich/tourists anyway.

The auto gods of America are panicking. If this congestion tax works, then it will severely undermine their powers and be the first falling Domino for car dependency.

The day of the Cage is coming.

>>2028542
I hate having to be associated with inane clowns like this just because I don't want a car

>>2028545
Name one thing I said that was insane. Toyotabots fear the educated trainchad

>>2028552
Have you ever once tried to talk like a normal person instead of this numtot word salad?

>>2028554
>Um..excuse me..have you consulted the median voter before saying the truth..?
Cars are evil. Sorry there's no getting past it.

>>2028561
I don't care about voters, I just don't want to have to listen to your stupid, stupid takes. but because people who don't have cars and aren't into cars are a "minority group" I have to share this nightmare lifeboat with you idiots. fuck you. I hope you die.

>>2028566
Why does talking about criticism of cars get you so angry? Is it a taboo topic or something? Am I not allowed to talk bad about the auto industry?

>>2028578
1. Talk like a normal fucking person
2. Stop spamming no-context nonsequiturs like "The ragie cagies are furious that the parking minimum suburbot stroad diets are getting traffic sewered up to their shrimp dicked sneckdowns because of the yimby tactical guerilla urbanism lololol cagebrained boomeroids btfo!!!!", it makes this place feel like an insane asylum, if your tourettes absolutely compels you to vomit this kind of buzzword salad the least you can do is respond to another post in the thread, or post an image that you didn't steal from streetsblog, or contribute something, ANYTHING interesting, anything to not be the freak with the fetal alcohol face sitting in the corner muttering to himself, which is what you are now

Yes I know I know expecting sane people on 4chan, I'm no one to talk but jesus christ you are annoying, if I wanted to listen to toddlers I can just go over to my brother's place and he's got a toddler that's at least my blood relative so I'm genetically obligated to like it, not to mention it's significantly more articulate than you even at 18 months old

>drive car into manhattan Jan 4th
>never leave
>get to drive around for free without paying congestion toll.
Nothen personell.

>>2028581
>The ragie cagies are furious that the parking minimum suburbot stroad diets are getting traffic sewered up to their shrimp dicked sneckdowns because of the yimby tactical guerilla urbanism lololol cagebrained boomeroids btfo!!!!
Based and Chad. I'm sorry you you have a hard time waking up. The vehicle propaganda turned your mind into mush. In reality you know why cars are evil and why the entire system needs to be destroyed. You just refuse to see it for the sake of everyday convenience and an appeal towards the status quo.

>>2028581
Damn bro, maybe if you stop huffing those exhaust fumes you'd be less angry

>>2028666
>inb4
>gridlock intensifies

>>2028749
>>2028725
he's right and you two retards need to go outside and touch grass instead of buzzword spamming like a autistic schizophrenic freak

>>2028666
that's a retarded loophole left in because there are few retarded naggers in rent controlled apartments there, who would nag incessantly if they'd need to pay for the space they took up. You can't do anything to inconvenience naggers.

>>2028764
>I DEMAND TO CONTROL YOUR LANGUAGE
Sorry cagie. Ill pass. We can fight if you have a problem.

>>2029257
Based freedom enjoyer

>>2029279
>>2029257
iPad kids finally old enough to post on 4chan

>>2027177
This board isn't dedicated to sucking the cock of public transit, it's for conversation about interests in aircraft, ships, bicycles and other non-automotive forms of transportation. Hobbyist, not urbanist politics. Those belong in the shithole called /pol/

>>2029281
You're killing the planet and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

>>2029394
How about instead of derailing the entire board with your screeching about cars, to a bunch of people who already like trains and bikes, you go off to /o/ where you'll find lots of people who, much like you, love to talk about cars and think about them ALL THE TIME, please fuck off and die so /n/ can continue to be about /n/ and not your youtube respam

>>2026969
It's a good idea but they have the pricing scheme all backwards.
Trucks should be the cheapest tier or have the fee waived entirely. Then personal vehicles. Then taxis and rideshares.

>>2029403
No no no we don't want these assholes on /o/ either TRUST ME you're keeping them we're already annoyed enough by the EV shills

>>2029394
I'm going to burn a tire just to spite faggots like you

>>2027180
>Wahhh our transit system is so broke they need more money to finally get my urbanist utopia!
The MTA gets $19 billion dollars in funding every single fucking year and it’s wasted every year on garbage. Congestion pricing is nothing but yet another tax on the working class that only the most brainrotted of urbanist scum would support.
If New Yorks idiotic politicians had any actual environmental incentive for this glorified Ponzi scheme, they’d only be charging trucks and taxis/black cars since they're the bulk of the traffic in the city.

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>>2029896
Congestion pricing is live today! Hooray! FUCK cars

>>2029901
faggot drivers get rekt

>>2029901
for once in the last 150 years, cars DIDN'T get preference. fuck you, changposter!

>>2029896
>working class
>driving into lower Manhattan
Bot tier post

Most NYC metro complaints about Congestion Pricing come from goombas in Staten Island or New Jersey.

>>2027798
The great truth is that those guys are the richest men in the city. There was a whole joke in Moonstruck when Cher's mom is being walked home about how the NYU professor was amazed by how big her family's house was until she remarked that her husband was a plumber.
Those jobs are lucrative. Especially in Manhattan. I'm not crying that a Manhattan Plumber may have gotten 9 dollars less in a day.

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>>2029901
Dude got stabbed on the subway

>>2029902
>>2029909
>celebrating the rich getting preference over humans

>>2027384
https://www.cityandstateny.com/policy/2018/07/why-returning-nycs-freight-transportation-to-the-waterways-wont-work/178250/

>>2029948
kys

>>2029981
congestion pricing is a regressive tax that only benefits the (((banker class))) and (((you))) know it

I like how the anti-train and anti-bike trolls come here just to seethe. Must be a miserable existence.

>>2029982
It benefits the corrupt MTA administration. You don't get better service on the MTA, you pad dead weight on a bloated government system.

>>2029982
cagie pays, i win. stay mad faggot

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Decent picture from today.

>>2029947
Lesson learned. Never complain about a person's loud music. Just walk up and stab them in the throat — trust me, it's a preemptive strike.

>>2030004
people are already leaving nyc in droves, this will seal the deal

>>2027383
Shouldn't congestion pricing make it easier for trucks to get to supermarkets and whatnot, since congestion will be lower now? On the one hand, trucks are paying the fee too, but on the other hand, time is money for a transportation company in a way that it isn't for a commuter, so you might net out neutral in terms of the effect on your budget when you're looking at shipping costs, no?

Picture miles traveled by all cars in a day on the y-axis vs. total number of cars that enter the zone in a day on the x-axis. That curve is going to be some kind of right-skewed arch, because sooner or later the traffic will become totally stationary and then there will be a precipitous drop in total miles traveled by all cars with the marginal car entering, actually making the roads less productive. I imagine that congestion pricing changes the point that you occupy along that curve, with the effects of 1. maximizing total miles travelled, and 2. raising money for the subway.

>>2030012
>oh no the yimbys will all fuck off to florida
don't threaten me with a good time

>>2030016
new york city is on its way to becoming the next detroit
when cities die the homeless and criminal populations never leave

>>2030019
rent free

>>2030022
Checked, but that's just day one. Any real analysis of the impact will take weeks or even months to do.

>>2030015
Any "reduced congestion" if it actually exists and won't just be treated as another tax won't be enough to offset the increased price of doing business in New York. Whatever rat-infested "grocery store" Manhattanites go to will just get more expensive.

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>>2030025
really my biggest problem is that I live in pic rel and now I gotta pay money to leave

Half the people driving through Manhattan aren't doing it willingly it's because their GPS told them the fastest route out the city was through the Lincoln or Holland Tunnels

>>2030023
you'll see for yourself in ten years
you think all the people you hate will leave but that's just not going to be the case lol

>>2030003
>>2029981
enjoy getting stabbed on the subway. I can literally see NYC from my home and have only gone there twice in the last 6 years because it is so ass

>>2029998
this
>>2029989
more like this was an extremely unpopular law that the governor delayed because it was going to cost dems in the election and it wont benefit single human and you have to hide in your safe space bubble

>>2030004
most of the traffic got rerouted to the bridges/tunnels that bypass the congestion zone meaning there is more traffic on the GWB. this only benefits the mega rich

I'm glad cars are finally paying a portion of the costs they incur. We need to implement this in LA next.

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This inbred faggot is seething so hard. Good job Governor Kochul.

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If he purpose of this shit is to alleviate congestion, why tax motorbikes and scooters at all?

>>2030038
we need user IDs so I can laugh at your posts

>>2030033
thank you for staying mad.

I thought I'd have a bit of sympathy for the motorists who drive into Manhattan but the vox pop accounts in the papers complaining about the new toll are the biggest fucking crybabies I have ever seen. Fuck these retards, $9 isn't enough, I don't care if the MTA takes the money and burns it, these retards shouldn't be driving in Manhattan, or anywhere as a matter of fact. The bar for entry for being able to drive a car in general is far too low.

>>2030025
You might be right, you might not be right. We will see what the impact of congestion will be on commercial activity in the next few months. Ideally, as the tax revenue is invested in more frequent and reliable MTA service, ridership increases around stations in the congestion zone, and businesses have more customers. One other thing to note is that the counterfactual to compare to is not NYC without congestion pricing, but with either higher subway fares or less money spent on MTA maintenance. You just have to pick your poison here.

>>2030036
cars already pay way more than they cost. MTA should lose all subsidies and there needs to be a bike tax
>>2030041
because the goal is to make it so the rich and only the rich can get anywhere fast and everyone else needs to take the slow ass subway

>>2030038
>>2030061
look at how hard this dickless tranny who isn't even American is seething over people being against a regressive tax that only benefits the rich and harms all humans
>>2030043
we need flags, because that tranny isn't American

>>2030088
That's retarded. You want to encourage more bike and mta use and get cars off the road.

>>2030064
Enjoy paying $40 for a pack of toilet paper then I guess

>>2030064
I live in NJ and a bus goes right past my house and an express bus is like a 10 min walk and driving is was still over 4 times faster to get to anything in nyc
>>2030067
the subway and busses are going to be just as ass as always. the goal of the congestion charge was to decrease traffic for the mega rich at the cost of slowing down travel for everyone else

>>2030091
How much do people in London pay?

>>2030092
How does the busses going faster slow down everyone else?

>>2030090
bikes slow traffic and bike lands really slow traffic. that is why canada just tore out a bunch of bike lanes and banned making new bikelanes
NJ transit and NYC subways and busses are slow as fuck. pretty sure this congestion charge made NJ transit slower for me since the busses by me take the GWB.
again the congestion charge thing was passed to only benefit the mega wealthy who will now be able to drive 10 times faster than the subway

>>2030094
the busses won't go faster, they stop every 10 feet and take retarded routes. if anything the ones by me will be slower due to increased GWB traffic

>>2030095
Bikes speed up traffic, dumbass. 10 cars replaced with 10 bikes means traffic goes faster.

>>2030096
Yes they do. Goddamn you sound like a suburbacuck who has never taken a bus.

>>2030093
Probably significantly more than areas outside congestion charge zones. Plus London has significantly better freight rail access than NYC, allowing some goods to bypass the charges at least partially.

>>2030099
Edinburgh, United Kingdom
4 rolls of toilet paper £2.42

London, United Kingdom
4 rolls of toilet paper £2.38

Carbrains BTFO

>>2030097
they literally don't retard. bikiests are retards who ride in traffic at 10 mph right in the middle of the lane. 10 bikes means everyone is stuck behind 10 mph retards instead of cars. that's why canada is tearing up bike lanes
>>2030098
I used to take the bus when I went to college in the city and took the bus the 2 times I've gone to the city since coof. busses stop every 10 feet and are slow. I was thinking of going to the WWE event on long island and it was literally 4 times faster to drive. I know its 4 times faster to drive to citi field than to take the bus and train too. and that isn't even factoring in the time you wait to get on or transfer since they are always fucking late. you faggots aren't even American
also suburbs are based. all cucks live in cities

>>2030101
No, bikes speed it up. Just look at how more bike traffic means cars can go faster.

>>2030104
that is demonstrably not true. bikes always slow traffic in my town. my old home town took out a car lane for a bike lane and it caused traffic to increase a lot and in canada they tore up bike lanes because it increased commute times.

>>2030104
Do you have a peer reviewed source for that?

>>2030106
>>2030105
You idiots thought toilet paper was more expensive in London due to its congestion zone. https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/bike-lanes-impacts-1.7358319

>>2030113
I'm sorry, but do you have a real world peer reviewed case study of how bicycle lanes improved congestion?

Your news article is neither of those. In fact, it seems to suggest the opposite of your position.
>Bike lanes have also been shown to decrease speeds on roads...

>In Toronto, the city recently released a report looking at a section of the Bloor West thoroughfare where it installed bike lanes and other measures to make the area more cyclist- and pedestrian-friendly. It compared traffic from a period before the lanes were added, November 2022 to March 2023, with the same period one year later, and found "average increases in motor vehicle times ... from 2.4 to 4.4 minutes eastbound and 1.5 to 3.6 minutes westbound for travel between Runnymede Road and Aberfoyle Crescent, depending on the time of day and the direction of travel."

>>2030104
Bikes speed up personal commute time but bike lanes increase traffic but not for the reason simple pundits believe they do. Bike lanes improve local economic activity which attracts people which is the cause of local traffic, not the lane or bike itself. Normies can't grasp that concept and so it's easier for them to accept big oil propaganda which has every incentive to promote big car

>>2030089
only one of those posts is me. i am american and lived in manhattan for 10 years. you are a faggot and need to die.

>>2030113
I wasn't the one who brought up toilet paper, you gay retard. also from your own link
>In Toronto, the city recently released a report looking at a section of the Bloor West thoroughfare where it installed bike lanes and other measures to make the area more cyclist- and pedestrian-friendly. It compared traffic from a period before the lanes were added, November 2022 to March 2023, with the same period one year later, and found "average increases in motor vehicle times ... from 2.4 to 4.4 minutes eastbound and 1.5 to 3.6 minutes westbound for travel between Runnymede Road and Aberfoyle Crescent, depending on the time of day and the direction of travel."
and
>Bike lanes have also been shown to decrease speeds on roads,
bikes cause congestion. bike lanes cause congestion
every bikist added to the road slows traffic because they can't go as fast as a car and they ride in the middle of the lane like retards.
I will give you that while bikes increase congestion and are slower than cars, they are about the same speed as nj transit/mta busses and trains since NJ transit and MTA are so fucking slow, 4 times slower than driving
>>2030116
I've literally never seen an adult who was commuting on a bike that wasn't either an illegal or had a DUI. I've never seen a bike lane be used, they just waste space an cause traffic

>>2030117
don't lie, tranni boi. we both know you aren't American and that you have no dick and that you were too retarded to pass a driver's license test. also new yorkers aren't people

>>2026969
>don't drive so they shouldn't subsidize roads.

Ah yes, because you know, NYC has no roads.

>>2030119
>2.4 to 4.4 minutes
Over how long a trip? Also, bloor west reduced its speed limit from 50 to 40km/h so the difference in travel times makes sense

>>2030119
Bikes only cause congestion when they cannibalize existing streets like in Canada. If you build a mixed-use path next to a roadway they don't cause congestion.

>>2030120
okay tranni boi lmao

>>2030125
>bikes make trips faster
>here is a study showing it doesn't
>well it isn't that much slower
>>2030126
I've never seen anything bike related that did not cannibalize existing car infrastructure. hell anytime I see anyone promoting bikes, one of the explicit goals is to cannibalize existing car infrastructure

>>2030128
>has to reuse my insult
GMS

>>2030131
>>>bikes make trips faster
>>here is a study showing it doesn't
Except that:
>study makes no mention of trips made by bicycle so total impact is not known
>despite lanes being cannibalized, travel time is increased, at most, by 4 minutes
>deliberately ignores the fact that the speed limit was reduced so travel times wouldve increased anyway, so all told bike lanes themselves had no tangible impact
>which makes sense because average vehicular traffic decreased by 16 percent
https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/streets-parking-transportation/cycling-in-toronto/cycling-pedestrian-projects/bloor-street-bike-lanes/

>>2030133
>Speed limits reduced... because of bike lanes.
>Transit times nearly double in the studied area.
Don't you faggots all want to reduce the speeds of cars anyways? Fuck, bike fags just need to go to >>>/toy/ where they belong.

>side perk of congestion pricing is that it causes Long Islanders infinite butthurt

Congestion pricing really is the gift that keeps on giving. We need this in LA.

>>2030131
>hell anytime I see anyone promoting bikes, one of the explicit goals is to cannibalize existing car infrastructure
That is because since /n/ is a Reddit colony and the Reddit colony in particular is /r/fuckcars, the idea is usually "how can driving become WORSE" rather than "how can cycling/mass transit be BETTER"? You can see some of that mindset in this very page.

>>2030132
okay tranni boi

>>2030174
social media ruined transportation foamer communities by allowing zoomers with no genuine interest in mass transit to pretend to be "into transit" by screeching about how much they hate their mom and dad (the "nimby boomer cagetrolls" that they keep whining about). when it became a proxy for some nonsensical generation warfare bullshit, any hope of intelligent or constructive mass transit (let alone cycling) discussion went out the window. this was made worse when covid locked up millions upon millions. the older people bought bikes and went outside more. the younger people bought "VR chat" and spent their time getting reverse skin cancer and eroding their social skills with digital muppets and groyper memes

>>2030185
>pretend to be "into transit"
Don't forget the "efficiency expert" types who think that trains are just better without questioning or improving systems.

>>2030227
some of those guys think they can improve the system by deleting the passengers, I'm looking at you elon levi

>>2030134
>>Transit times nearly double in the studied area.
So that means previous times to traverse the 4.7 kms was 1-4 minutes.. so cars were travelling between 70 and 282 km/h on bloor west? Damn..

>>2030173
>fuck suburbs and sheeeit

send your kids to a inner city nyc public school and see how that works out

>>2030232
Cut overnight service and you'll not only be cutting wasteful mostly-empty trains but allowing maintenance to be done on the infrastructure.

>all these cagers butthurt over $9
glorious

>>2030015
>She thinks congestion pricing will reduce traffic
Lmao, sweet child
>gridlock intensifies

>>2030133
>>study makes no mention of trips made by bicycle so total impact is not known
humans don't commute on bikes, only drug addicts, drunks and illegals do
>>despite lanes being cannibalized, travel time is increased, at most, by 4 minutes
4 mins on my commute is worth more to me than the lives of bikists
>>deliberately ignores the fact that the speed limit was reduced so travel times wouldve increased anyway, so all told bike lanes themselves had no tangible impact
they lowered the speed limits for the bikecucks
>>which makes sense because average vehicular traffic decreased by 16 percent
because people drove a different way because the bikes took up road capacity
>>2030134
very good post, one of the best in the thread

>>2030173
with any luck the fire will kill everyone in LA. I feel bad for the animals, but fuck california
>>2030174
exactly, its impossible to make mass transit good so they just try to make cars worse because any normal person would just pick cars any time

>>2030185
>>2030227
yeah one of the dems trying to run for governor of nj even pointed out NJ transit and the MTA are both complete shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzjMHTkPR2E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFyMKT73Hw0
also shocker of all shockers, MTA says they need $33 billion on top of congestion pricing

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>>2030273
inb4

>>2030263
$9 is worth more than the lives of nondrivers in nyc
>>2030181
>the best she can do is use my own insult

rockland is suing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAlpD0aIBXo
also mega based, someone assaulted one of the retards who got the law passed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdZq8_fUYHo
shame she didn't get pushed onto the track

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>>2030275
No refunds

>>2030276
nah, that would be you. even in places like NYC, driving is so much better than mass transit you try to price people out of driving to benefit the rich instead of fixing mass transit

Uber, who was one of the companies who bribed lawmakers to pass the congestion pricing law, has been caught intentional charging passengers congestion fees, even when they never went into the congestion zone
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snqFNo2WcDM

>>2030280
cool story bro, now >>>/o/ is that way

Apparently restaurants pay a fucking payroll tax to MTA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNnYSChYF9A
https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/mctmt/

>>2030277
okay tranny boi

>>2030301
congestion pricing is literally
>wow no one wants to ride the subway or bus because they are the worst experience imaginable
>Should we make them better?
>fuck no, let's keep them ass and try to make driving worse while attempting to solve ZERO of the problems plaguing NJ transit and MTA

>>2030302
unfortunately that is how politics works. you can't get anything done by being constructive, so you appeal to people's hate of The Other

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>>2030067
>as the tax revenue is invested in more frequent and reliable MTA service

>>2030067
>>2030349
this. the MTA already fucking said with the congestion pricing they will still have a $33 billy deficit. they aren't going to invest shit into the mta and it will be shittier than ever

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H__zuB7Vgag

>>2030363
NYC could recover their deficits by allowing more housing construction to increase funding and ridership, but major city councils are overtaken by NIMBYs. City of Yes just passed though (with some minor nerfing) so the budget will improve significantly.

But highways run massive "deficits" anyway and cagebrains never seem to care. As long as highways aren't being tolled, "deficit" is a non-issue desu.

>>2030392
highways move people and goods. also why bother building more in NYC, like half a million people moved out because its a shitty place to go to, let alone live in

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>>2030395
pre-9/11 rightoids:
>NYC sucks! it's full of shit people and shitskins and libtards and AIDS! kill everyone in NYC!!!!
2001-2008 rightoids:
>I luuuuuurve NYC it's uhhmerica's city the city that never sleeps dut dut duududu, dut dut duududu I'm spreadin' the news!
2008-present rightoids
>NYC sucks! it's full of shit people and shitskins and libtards and AIDS! kill everyone in NYC!!!!

>>2030407
giuliani killed all the homeless when he was mayor, that and the stop and frisk under giuliani and (((bloomberg))) made nyc not shit. deblasio undid all the good giuliani and (((bloomberg))) did and reshittified nyc

>>2030408
What has Eric Adams done?

>>2030410
mostly hang out in turkey and give no show jobs to his friend and family because nyc faggots were too retarded to vote GOP. the only crime adams cares about was luigi shooting that nyc faggot like a dog on the street

>>2030411
the parasite that luigi eliminated was not from nyc

>>2030413
he was in nyc and he was jewish. he was a new yorker

>>2029931
>I'm not crying that a Manhattan Plumber may have gotten 9 dollars less in a day.

Lol, you stupid simpleton, that $9 will be paid by YOU.

And its not going to be $9 you will pay an extra $100 for any basic service

>>2030407
Meanwhile leftoids on Facebook and 4chan try to gaslight me into it's okay for NYC to get shittier every year because it was worse in 1976 or some year 30 years ago when the whole country was worse who cares

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>>2030430
there was a slight blip during/after covid which was basically proportional to the national murder rate, but I understand you people can't do math since you think putting tariffs on everything is going to make inflation go down, somehow

>>2027244
they have ULEZ cameras that the britbongs keep breaking

>>2028773
Too late I already did it.

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>>2030098
>Yes they do. Goddamn you sound like a suburbacuck who has never taken a bus.
You have no idea how retarded and circuitous NJT bus routes are. Many routes stop 2 times per block.

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>>2030098
>>2030444

>>2030431
>Thinks murders are the only crimes that matter.
I had you. I hate this thread. I hate that "urbanists" have ruined the /n/ that I've loved for nearly 15 years.

>>2030019
Imagine being this uneducated. Detroit died because of its complete reliance on manufacturing for big auto. When the great recession hit, 2 out of 3 of the big auto companies went bankrupt and the last got bailed it, then all 3 relocated their factories to lower cost states or countries. A lot of people lost their jobs, homes, and futures because of big auto. Nyc doesn't have the same problem Detroit did sucking big auto

>>2030446
I'm an urbanite not an urbanist. hope you get shoved in front of an L train though, hipster

>>2030452
I'd normally wish something ill upon you, but you already live in a city.

>>2030453
if you don't even live here then why are you being such a drama queen about 'gaslighting urbanists getting worse every year', what difference could it possibly make from your point of view

>>2030449
Detroit died because of demographic shifts which were underway after World War II.

>>2030302
roads cost money just like trains cost money. But only trains have a user fee. So by subsidizing train usage and not road usage, there's an innate bias against transit and in favor of roads built in. Basically, we're doing, by default, the opposite of what you're saying. Congestion pricing is just selectively undoing that

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>>2030446

>>2030449
>le big auto

nyc instead relies on big finance (wfh + relocating to other states) and tech (wfh + offshoring)

AI will unironically kill this city, just look how much the city is hurting from the loss of tax revenues post-covid

>>2030452

if you get shoved in front of the L train you'll come to /n/ posting how train shovings are down vs 1982 and that its part and parcel of living in a big city

>>2030458

crazy how the mta has all these fees specifically for them for everyone living or working in new york and they're still $33 billion in the hole

>>2030460
the MTA has had its funding stagnate for decades up until about 6 days ago. Theyve been forced to put what should be operational costs to maintenance that the city and state refuse to cover and have been forced by law to make huge union payments by the same government that doesn't help pay for those union payouts. The State has treated the NYMTA as an ATM for years now, it's high time that wealthy carbrained suburbanites finally pay their fair share to a system they benefit from existing, even if they don't ride it
>if you get shoved in front of the L train
You're way more likely to be one of the 42,000-Americans to die in a car crash than by being one of the 400 Americans a year who dies in public transit

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>>2030445
>>2030098
This isn't even the worst one.
86.

>>2030463
Eat shit. Nobody is pilfering the MTA coffers. Nobody is treating it like a piggy bank. You're just making up stupid shit to fit a narrative constructed in your mind.

>>2030463

https://www.tax.ny.gov/bus/mctmt/

https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-bridges-and-tunnels-announces-record-revenue-2023-enforcement-metrics-increase

TBTA is part of the same agency and was a cash cow for the MTA just like the tunnels/bridges are for the Port Authority. The Verrazano makes $1.6 million a day off "carbrained suburbanites". Add the Triboro, QMT, Whitestone, Throgs Neck and Battery Tunnel to that. I guarantee you those "carbrained suburbanites" are paying for a huge chunk of your autistic special interest.

I'm wondering why you don't have any critiques of MTA Capital Projects and their inability to competently run projects. This is the only city where a $70,000 elevator costs $100 million to install.

>>2030467
>This is the only city where a $70,000 elevator costs $100 million to install
...because the regulators in this state who all hate transit view the MTA as an ATM. I literally just said this

>>2030468
Is it copium or the fentanyl that's making you this deluded?

>>2030431
>if you don't report it it's not there
Ah, the perfect solution to building every socialist paradise!

>>2030469
it's facts: https://www.curbed.com/article/subway-elevators-usd100-million-costs-mta-budget-capital-plan.html
>The elevator itself costs something like $5 million, which is more expensive than those in Europe because a host of American regulations demand larger, more complicated lifts.
>We used to do this. The original subway lines were designed in-house by the MTA’s forerunners, but the function was outsourced in the intervening decades as officials were forced to find money to run the trains and sought to avoid paying for labor contracts protected by Albany as lawmakers loaded the agency with debt. Albany needs to address the consequences of its actions and explicitly give the MTA room in its budget to bring these functions back in-house.

It's state and federal regulators that make elevators expensive. Not evil urbanist libs

>>2030471
>Blaming the state government for MTA running itself poorly and poorly sourcing engineering and design contracts.
You are a special kind of stupid.

>>2030472
no I'm blaming them for the laws the state passes that serve as a road block. stop commenting on politics in countries you can't even read the language in

>>2030431
>murders = all crimes
also didn't they change the way they report this shit and a lot of PDs don't properly report anymore

>>2030449
>Nyc doesn't have the same problem Detroit did sucking big auto
Didn't NYC have a huge issue when people were dong WFH?

>>2030458
all people use roads and roads are paid for via gas tax. no humans use trains, but all people have to subsidize trains with taxes

>>2030463
>it's high time that wealthy carbrained suburbanites finally pay their fair share to a system they benefit from existing, even if they don't ride it
the train doesn't benefit nonriders, retard

>>2030471
>It's state and federal regulators
who voted for them?

>>2030473
>no I'm blaming them for the laws the state passes
who voted for the lawmakers?

>>2030479
>>2030480
suburbanites
>>2030478
if there's an office job or a some other business in Manhattan, it relies on transit riders whether you choose to drive or not

>>2030484
>suburbanites
there are a supermajority of dems in both chambers of the ny legislature and a dem governor. 88% of NY residents live in cities
https://www.icip.iastate.edu/tables/population/urban-pct-states
how would suburbanites control the state government when the pop of nyc is like 45% of the state pop and 88% of nys is cities?
>if there's an office job or a some other business in Manhattan, it relies on transit riders whether you choose to drive or not
I fail to see how that benefits me

>>2030478
All forms of transportation that are alternative to the car reduces the amounts of cars on the road and so by extension, nonriders do benefit from a better transit network, going against the interest of yourself is purely because of big oil propaganda

>>2030486
nope, me having to subsidize the train which is slower doesn't benefit me

>>2030487
Enjoy your gridlock then I guess

>>2030485
he's referring to the poor schmucks who want to pay $500,000-700,000 + 2-3 hour commute to have a single family home in a nyc suburb

every long island teenager comes to nyc to hate the suburbs only to flee back to massapequa when they have kids and realize a 1br studio in brooklyn is too small to live in

don't forget the hundreds of thousands of new jersey/connecticut/pennsylvania residents commuting into nyc and paying for mta bridges and tunnels as part of their commute (which then gets distributed to subways/rail/buses)

>>2030477
>roads are paid for via gas tax
hahahahaha
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>2030476
Guess what? Covid has been over like 2 years now and society is going back to office so that point is worthless

>>2027167
Well, if there is less cars on the road maybe it will be faster?

>>2030462
I didn't know making threads complaining about black people on public transportation was "adding something of value to the board" and it would seem from your extremely specific complaint that the jannies didn't know that either

>>2030493
Wfh is here to stay. Lots of office space will be demolished in the coming years.
>>2030494
Huh? What illness did democrats ever make up?

>>2030516
Wtf is coof?

>>2030518
slang for covid 19, used mostly by the kind of knuckle draggers who think fire insurance is woke

>>2030521
Oh, I see now. It sounds like that person has some real trauma that they need to work out with a therapost if they think COVID-19 isn't real.

>>2030395
>also why bother building more in NYC

Because there's a massive unmet demand for housing in NYC and all major American cities. Poeple want to build housing, people want to buy housing there, but the city councils won't let them build.

>>2030526
no one wants to live in nyc, people are moving out in droves

>>2030408
Actually Bloomberg oversaw massive upzoning which drastically improved a lot of neighborhoods throughout Brooklyn and Queens. De Blasio was fairly NIMBY which cost the city.

>>2030410
Adams has built a lot of bike lanes, and his City of Yes program has allowed a lot more housing to be built.
Which is good, because NYC still needs at least 500,000 housing units to at least meet some of the demand for housing there.

>>2030525
I hope you find the help you need.

>>2030528
stop and frisk and killing all the homeless was what made nyc not complete shit. they need to go back to the bloomberg law where the cops stopped and frisked every black and latinx man every time they saw one
>>2030531
>still only a retarded fart huffing reply

>>2030535
It's ok man, apparently there's a lot of people who have also suffered trauma who end up believing crazy shit. Just look at people who think the moon landing was fake. Turns out they were sexually abused as kids.

>>2030536
yeah you are being a retard projecting who smells his own farts.

>>2030537
I'll pray for you.

>>2030538
I don't want (((you))) to pray to satan for me

>>2027185
Absolute cagecuck seething!

>>2030594
pretty sure the subways are the cuck cage

>>2030598
Subways are boob tubes, cage is a term used for cars

>>2030603
makes no sense. subways are very cage like and you are trapped in there with criminals and the homeless. with a car you can go anywhere you want. its the opposite of a cage

My brother is a transportation economist who has been advocating for congestion pricing for years. It's been successfully tried in several other countries and he says it makes perfect sense for America where we depend too heavily on cars. I think the next best place to implement congestion pricing would be LA or Dallas.

>>2030619
>mass transit is absolute ass and worse than driving in every single way imaginable with the only benefit being you can do it drunk, but you can also just get a cab when drunk
>should we fix transit to make it not the worst experience of all time?
>nah, let's just charge more to drive so only the rich get to drive while doing nothing to fix the hell like experience of mass transit
I hope your brother contracts AIDS

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>>2030619
>Not implementing congestion pricing in Kansas City

>>2030627
You conveniently omitted the fact that driving incurs hundreds of different costs on the public, from infrastructure to signage to policing to health and environmental damage. Congestion pricing is one way to recoup *some* of the massive costs incurred by cars. Cars need to start paying their fair share.
Also, America needs to stop subsidizing oil.

>>2030642
>America needs to stop subsidizing oil.
This, if not the car problem, the US needs to get it's shit together and stop sucking big oil's black juice. It's fucking sad how much more power big oil combined with big auto has over its own government. People are only just waking up to the global ponzi known as car and oil dependency. The oil barons did everything they can to enslave The People and the oil barons won. Oil is evil.

>>2030642
>>2030645
this is 100% a lie. literally both of these posts are false

>>2030646
>this is your brain running on exhaust fumes

>>2030646
When I see shitposts this stupid, it reminds me that we can report posts for being extremely lpw quality.

Congestion pricing is just a way to help recoup *some* of the massive costs incurred by cars. Cars need to pay their fair share.

>>2030645
Exactly. You should check out opensecrets.org to see who the oil companies are funding. They fund the GOP then the GOP does everything it can to subsidize car-dependency. Kleptocracy in action.

>>2030649
most of wallstreet donates to the dems, retard. clinton and obongo got more money from wall street than anyone

>>2030647
nah, I'm 100% correct
>>2030648
global rule 7 and stop lying, faggot

>>2030652
(You) stop lying

>>2030653
I haven't said a single lie, faggot

>>2030655
your existence is a lie, faggot

Looks like the asshurt long island spammer has tried to hijack the thread. I'll make the next one if he kills this one.

>>2030657
long island is in nyc so it is gay and retarded
>>2030656
nah, that's you fag boi

>>2030656
fag boi lmao

>>2030658
no, you.

Remember everyone in favor of congestion pricing also wants a gun ban. Its telling that the congestion pricing was put into effect without doing anything to fix NJ transit or MTA

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another high quality urbanism thread
and somehow, I'm the problem for actually wanting to talk about transportation and not screaming about cagetrills and nimbies

>>2030665
there isn't really a good argument for urbanism in an era when remote working exists and half the jobs are outsourced overseas anyway

>>2030666
I don't really care either way, that's for /pol/ and /biz/ to worry about, not /n/. trains and bikes will always exist regardless of real estate prices in kansas city and dallas

>>2030667
the nyc subway literally does not work now. congestion pricing is literally due to how bad the trains are for mta, nj transit and lirr

>>2030668
worked fine this morning, what did I miss? another nypost article written by some guido cop's grandson who lives in yaphank?

>>2030670
they are significantly slower than driving. it takes 4 times as long to get to a mets game via nj transit/subway vs driving
plus they are full of homeless and troons. like every time I've ridden the subway there was some homeless begging for money and showing his disgusting feet or troons half naked

>>2030671
>the subway is full of half naked trans women
god I wish

>>2030672
gay

>>2030672
tsmt
>>2026969
congestion pricing still has many carcels screeching even after a week

>>2030729
a. faggot
b. because it did jack shit to address how shit nyc's transit system is

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>>2030124
>because you know, NYC has no roads.
OP wants this.

>>2030277
>$9 is worth more than the lives of nondrivers in nyc
If I have to pay $9, I'm going to bag my limit of non drivers every time.

Just drove into NYC from NJ. Got to say that having no traffic and ample parking for only 5 dollars extra is so worth it. Never taking the train again.

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Here's my retarded idea. A crossrail-type project connecting NJ Transit and the LIRR in a second place. A new tunnel going from the terminus at Hoboken to the LIRR tracks in Long Island City. A new giant station connecting to the Subway somewhere in Greenwich village. Please tell me all the ways that this is stupid.