Boeing keeps collecting bodies, this time in South Korea.
https://x.com/BNONews/status/1873168534702014473https://x.com/AZ_Intel_/status/1873174325970518084Why were they going so fast that far down the runway? Did they only touch down with only like a quarter of the tarmac left?
>>2028899what happened to the landing gear?
>>2028899Is it a max?
>>2028911Blended winglets, stubbier empennage, CFM-56, not a Max
>>2028899isn't the stuff at the end of the runway supposed to be frangible? wasn't one of the reasons AA1420 was so bad that the runway lights didn't snap off? why does it loo like they just smashed into a brick wall?
>>2028899>>2028900>>2028911Nice digitsAnyway. IF IT'S BOEING
>>2028915South korean regional airports probably don't follow FAA regulation
What typically causes landing gear to not function?
>>2028933Loss of hydraulics.
>>2028933Non-functional landing gear
>>2028915that wasn't the end of the runway, that was the start of it. they aborted the first landing and were coming around for a second try when for whatever reason they decided they needed to land immediately and this strip was the most accessible. also the brick wall was smashed through, the explosion was the result of the plane colliding with the dirt mound behind the wall
>>2028935Roger, Roger.
>>2028899Why is there a wall at the end of the runway?
>>2028934If the hydrolics were lost, the landing gear would've come down under it's own wait.
>>2028960keeps animals and people out of the airfield
>>2028960That's the border between NK/SK
>>2028961>wait.*weight
>>2028960To make sure no weak aircraft can escape. They either fly or die.
>>2028960They're not sending their best planes.
>>2028960because HUNDREDS of people use the road just beyond the runway every year
yeah idk why the fuck they landed on the start of the run way instead of the other way where there is actually an overrun patch specifically for what they were facing unless they ran out of thrust.
>>2028899Something like this happened in Japan back in January of this year, except most if not everybody lived
I think it's going to come out that they improperly handled an inflight emergency (I heard bird strike into no. 2 engine?), and probably poor CRM because why the hell did they attempt a landing with no gear, no flaps, and way overspeed. RIP to all of those on board though, hope it was quick.
>>2028960Because that airport should have been shut down a long time ago, like the classic Hong Kong airport in the middle of the populated city
https://x.com/SquawkAlert/status/1872497487279178155The same plane squawked 7700 two days ago
>>2028899>touched down 5600 ft along a 9186 ft runway, which is over halfway down>still going nearly 180 knots around 2000 ft from the end of the runwayWhat the fuck happened? There's no way a birdstrike caused this. I agree with >>2028976 or it was a botched go-around.
>>2028980I'm certain with a 90% chance it was a crew-caused crash at this point imho, especially with that information you just shared. If they did a proper approach, they would have just slid to a stop on the runway itself. I know a lot of Asian airlines have very VERY poor CRM stuff, plenty of "PIC is God" mentality. I have a feeling that might have played a part here.
>>2028975You mean the plane hit another plane on landing?
If the gear broke, the B737 could still be steered as it is connected to the rudder by a cableThey could have kept circling to reduce fuel consumption, or they could have chosen the 13,000ft long Incheon airport.
>>2028985Except the rudder is kinda useless at lower speed, plus with what the other anon said, it was too fast and too far down the runway to really be survivable in the first place. The fact that the two FAs in the rear survived in a miracle.
>>2028986>The fact that the two FAs in the rear survived in a miracle.business class bros.... why do we always have to die....
here's a longer video of the plane landinghttps://streamable.com/7g8n6c>>2028980I still think it was a late touchdownmaybe if they had this system (been a thing since the fucking 1990s), it could've turned out better https://youtu.be/0U_bZVNIy_s
>>2028990Doubt EMAS would have helped much, it's mostly dependant on the wheels cutting into it making drag, also the plane was going way too fast even if the gear were down.
>>2028990Wow. No boards, no flaps, fast touchdown in the last 2500 ft of a 9200 ft runway. Regardless of how the gear extension and manual extension failed that’s ridiculous. Not to mention this >>2028985 , Incheon is like 150 miles away.
>>2028982Exhibit A
What do you think of this?
What a shit year for aviation, starts and ends with major incidents and over 100 bodies.I have some questions on why was there a wall that destroyed the aircraft at the end of the runway, at this point landing in water would have been better.
>>2028980>>2028996I don't know much about aviation(I'm on /n/ for trains and came to this thread because I flew a JEJUair from Incheon to Shizuoka on my Japan trip), but there's almost 10 miles of straight line water right behind the airport, why didn't the pilot just land there?
>>2028999>Jettison fuelNo 737 has that ability >Hydraulic loss This is what baffles me. In the event of an engine out situation, there's still a backup electric powered or ptu powered hydraulic pump. The gear should have been able to drop even without them though in a worst case scenario. I guess that was the same "bird" that took out the Azerbaijan flight cause none of this makes any sense. >Azerbaijan plane literally crashes with no hydraulics after flying for an hour after getting shot >Nearly half of passengers survived horrific crash>Korean plane lands on tarmack after single engine failure>Smacks into berm killing all but two on board
>>2029002Miracle in the Hudson landings are nearly impossible and mostly equal death but that would have unionically been the better option.
>>2028999Two separate hydraulic systems with a power transfer setup and a manual extend option and they still couldn’t get the gear out?
>>2028999Completely made up bullshit by "people" who have no idea about what they're talking about and going off of the same info we have. Like this...>reverse thrust with landing gear up and no weight on wheelsLMAO. No. It appeared visually deployed, likely due to forces from it scraping across the fucking runway. Modifications (and freak failures like Lauda Air) aside, there is ZERO way to deploy a thrust reverser in flight on ANY airplane.
>>2029003Gear or not they were gonna ram into that mound with no flaps or air brakes
>>2028975That was a collision of two planes, hence, a completely different scenario.
Probably a good idea to avoid any travel around Jeju City
>>2028917that's ICAO tardo
Boe*ing just launched their official company renewal slogan.
>>2029002why did the plane land on a runway and not in water?? are you serious?
>Only two survivors Man...
The casualty count is incomplete until these guys an hero
>>2028899Not the only issue with 737's thathappened around that timehttps://news.klm.com/incident-with-flight-kl1204/
If the engine got bird-struck on the initial landing approach at 200m alt, wouldn't the wheels have already been in the down position?
>>2029025>in Korea it's actually always a Kim
>>2029025>Kim E-Baewhat's his OF
>>2029028yeah threy make up almost 25 % of the population.
>>2028899How is this Fucking Boeing's fault you MotherFucker you!
>>2029033Yeah, the plane was 100% fine before it hit that wall. Stupid pilots.
>Retarded gook pilots hit some birds and panicked>Chose to land in the nearest airport instead of choosing an alternate with longer runway>Forgot to deploy the landing gear>Approached the runway from the opposite end where they would hit the ILS if they overshot>Reached the runway with too much speed and failed to do a go around>Blame boeing and muh birbs
Bird hit engine 2. Idiot crew panicked and shut down engine 1 in error (the good engine), hence the loss of hydraulics preventing rapid landing gear deployment. You can see the thrust reverser is deployed on engine 2 in the video.
chad azerbaijani pilots taking a missile and still keeping their bird flying for an hour with no hydraulics and saving half of their passengers vs virgin korean pilots who forget to put the landing gear down after a simple bird strike and kill everyone
>>2029037if the plane was at 200m altitude on the landing approach when it got hit like the media reported, the wheels should have already been down right?
Has everyone seen this footage?
>>2029039They aborted the first approach, it's possible that they pulled the wheels up while trying to determine their course of action. Then they go to shut down the 'bad' engine and the rest is history...There's a longer video from a different angle showing them coming in for the second landing and they spend a hell of a long time cruising down the runway without touching it, it almost looked as if they believed the landing gear was down and they were expecting to feel it touch down at any moment. Something fucky was going on in that cockpit, that's for sure. Total clusterfuck. I'd bet good money that the final report is going to point the finger at a mixture of poor training and poor crew management.
>>2029040yeah but it's not very useful without knowing where it was taken. The original approach came in over the water
>>2029041>There's a longer video from a different angle showing them coming in for the second landing and they spend a hell of a long time cruising down the runway without touching it,I haven't seen that one yet. link?
>>2029043https://x.com/vinfly4/status/1873285591900836307
There should be a simulation for “sudden events” in pilot training, and there should be an international standard for firing low-level pilots.
>>2029044That's interesting but it seems to just be a second angle of the final attempt?
>>2029033>Faulty landing gear >How is this boeings faultHave a (You)
>>2029047If companies follow boeing maintenance requirements to the letter, they usually don't suffer malfunctions, its when greedy companies want to save money not doing them like they should when planes start falling out of the sky, see the air alaska 261
>>2029040>someone randomly decided to film random plane>show water for a second so people will think it's the plane in question, because of the approach direction>shows poof from the engine right before the view of plane gets obstructedyeah, right.
I thought gooks were le based high iqand well trained, what went wrong?
>mentour pilot vid just went up>it's about something elsefuck.
>>2029050They suck at flying and anyone who has even shared airspace with them in the US (where all of them do their initial training) can attest to it
>>2029053gonna be fun listening to these jerkoff pilots being torn to shreds for their incompetency in the future
Get ready for the fallout from roughly eight years of relentless diversity hiring 2016-2024 to start seeing these types of accidents commonplace in the USA. Right now Stacy and Tyrone have some sixty year old ex-Navy pilot babysitting them. but when its little Brayyyden in the right seat and le heckin bravest they/them in the left this type of shit will be routine.
>>2028980>There's no way a birdstrike caused thisblood soaked claws typed this post
>>2028960autism
>>2028899Only a fool would fly on a boeing at this point.
Why didn't the plane try to turn instead of crashing into the wall!? Couldn't they have like decompressed the cargo bay and it might have kicked them out of the way!?
>>2028976>RIP to all of those on board though, hope it was quick.>anon hasn't seen the videoYeah it was quick m8, you wanna see ~180 instakilled in HD this is the air disaster for you. I'm shocked anybody survived at all.
>>2029064How do you think the 2 survived?
Something is just not adding up. That Albanian plane took a Fucking missile and half the dudes on their survived, but this plane just Fucking landed hard and basically everyone was killed!?
>>2029066Well the gook pilots rammed it into a wall at like 10 knots below V1. Not quite the lawn dart maneuver we have come to know and love from our thirdie pilots who get clapped by Boeing, but pretty close.
Is there any audible alarm if the landing gear is not down at a certain altitude?
>>2029070The whole plane was probably screaming at them. and they were so hyper fixated on getting on the ground nothing would’ve stopped them from ramming that wall
>>2029073Would it be louder than like what the Albanian pilots had them in missile lock? Those alarms had to be blaring then too and they handled it.
>>2028976The fact that a bird can take down and engine is enough to not let me fly planes again
>>2029079But you can land without one or even both engines.
>>2029065Presumably they were sitting in the jump seats back by the aft shitters. The tail is the only recognizable thing left.
>>2029081This is intriguing to me. Historically is it safer to be at the front or back of a plane during a crash?
the plane-induced death rate curve can carry on rising without me fuck off I'm out.
>>2029053I will wait for maydays coverage when all information is available. I dont know why but mentour pilot annoys me.
>>2029083Its a lottery and depends what crash scenario takes place. If you hit a brick wall - obviously sit further back as possible, this flights lucky crew survived thanks to sitting backwards - not facing impact zone, passengers werent so lucky. If fire starts at the back/middle and you need to get out asap - being at front is better. Front can sometimes also fall off and slide unharmed. Pilots themselves say middle is the safest because its most reinforced, but Ive never heard anyone surviving high impact crashes being in middle seats.
>>2029080Well, I'll take your word for it. I'm just imagining spiraling
>>2029066The other one was an embraer this one was a shitboeing.
I would have steered left or right. Still better than hitting a wall
>>2029089I would have put the landing gear down before landing.
>>2029089>>2029090I would have not hit the bird.>All the clueless fags on the internet complaining about the wallI mean at least you guys here are into planes and shit but having people that can't even locate SK on a map giving their opinion on this is hilarious.
From a Wall Street Journal article:>Among the safeguards on the 737-800 is a system that would allow the pilots to let gravity lower the landing gear if other systems failed, said [Jeff Guzzetti, a former senior accident investigator with the National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration], who isn’t involved in the accident investigation. He said he wondered whether the crew mistakenly tried to land without the plane’s landing gear down, realized the mistake and attempted a “go-around” to redo the landing. That could explain why the plane was traveling so fast and so far down the runway, he said.>“If there was a failure there, why not continue to fly, burn off fuel so you don’t have a lot of fuel on board?” Guzzetti said. “You call emergency rescue crews to be ready for you. I don’t see any of that there.”>The Muan International Airport is also surrounded by various bodies of water, meaning the pilots could have opted for a safer sea landing, said Hiroshi Sugie, a former Japan Airlines pilot who has written books about aviation safety. >The pilots appear to have landed in the most dangerous way, Sugie said. “There are just too many errors here,” he said. “A belly landing isn’t something you rush into doing.”
>>2029093it looks like they didn't even attempt to use the manual gear pull handles. There are 3 handles, 1 for each gear but the plane doesn't even have a single gear door open or anything.
Birds is just a factor not the cause. Easy to speculate but usually its a chain of unfortunate events which highly likely led to human error during stressful, time sensitive moments. We should let AI fly planes
>>2029096>We should let AI fly planes
>>2028934They don't have manual gear extension? The 707 does.
It is painfully obvious that they just forgot to drop the gear, didn’t recognize the alarm for it because all the other alarms going off, and floated their way down the runway flaring for a moment that was never going to come.The NTSB guy is probably right that they tried a go-around, but with one engine scraping metal it was hopeless. The gooks literally accelerated into the wall.
>>2029099The engines Do sound throttled up when it's going past but I can't tell if that's the engines of the scraping on the ground.
>>2029100OR* the scraping
>>2029100I don’t know enough to know, but Mr. NTSB probably does. This is probably going to be one for the ages.I think the pilots are the only people who survived. Which is even crazier, we’ll see if that winds up being true.
This is 10000% going to turn out to be another case of incompetent pilots like the SFO Asiana crash. My guess: bird strike in right engine (a totally manageable situation), then the shitty pilots panic, at some point shut down the wrong engine, lose all power, panic some more, forget the gear can be dropped manually, screw up the belly landing by trying to grease it and land more than halfway down the runway and predictably shoot off the end at high speed. Panic, confusion, bad CRM and airmanship turning a minor emergency into a disaster. Many such cases in asia. Yikes.
Are they still gonna make it or is it over for them?
>>2029102>I think the pilots are the only people who survivedthe two flight crew in the tail survived
>>2028899I had to watch this a few times because I thought it said jew air instead of jeju air
>boeing shills trying to blame the pilots againIf any big company in america deserves the corporate death penalty it's boeing. Break it up and sell the parts to a company that cares about safety, like union carbide or purdue pharmaceuticals
>>2029091what's the purpose of the wall? explain
>>2029113to hit it. plane was full of 50yo asian ladies
>>2029004If there are no waves, its as easy to land in the water as on the runway. The problem with airplanes crashing in the ocean are the big waves that just make for a bad day.There is nothing special about pontoon equipped aircraft.
>why do you hit the wall??Because it is there
If it's boeing I'm going
>>2029086>Pilots themselves say middle is the safest because its most reinforced, but Ive never heard anyone surviving high impact crashes being in middle seats.If the crash is severe enough that the reinforcement would help, you're probably still fucked. That's why probably.
>>2028899The fear era is coming back to aviation.
>>2029056>diversity hiring>south korea
>>2028936Dirt walls suspiciously place near runways?
>>2029125These idiots are blaming Boeing and DEI on a plane built in 2009 and jeets for a Korean airline that flies mostly domesticThis website has a fucking competency crisis
>>2029083I remember seeing data saying that statistically the rear is the safest. but that was so long ago i have no idea where i saw that.
>>2028899they could have survived if they jumped at the moment of impact
Once again a plane crash with no Fucking parachutes! They had no chance to even try to jump out of the plane before it crash landed.At least give the passengers a Fucking chance!
>>2029135what, you want all passengers to copulate with some sexy parachutes during flights?
>>2029085>I will wait for maydays coverageSo like 5 to 10 years? They haven't even done an episode on based SkyKing Beebo yet.
>>2028960It's Worst Korea is why.
>>2029134>>2029135based retards
>>2029045Isn’t there ? >firing low level pilots Good luck in shit holes like Pakistan and India with rampant nepotism. Half of the air crash videos on YouTube is from those shit countries.
>>2029128>This website has a fucking competency crisisYou don't come here for "competency": you come here for fresh views on a topic you are interested in.What you are doing with those views is up to your own "competency" to decide. This isn't kindergarten.Calling others out for the total bullshit they are posting is also fine play and very welcome!
>>2029125I believe the anon was referring to the USA
Do we know who the pilot was? I've heard rumors they were reasonably experienced which puts more weight behind it being a technical issue, but I don't know if there's been any official announcements about the staff on the plane.
>>2029150>I've heard rumors they were reasonably experiencedInb4 Jeju super star
>>2029150Never assume an experienced pilot can’t fuck up big
>>2029138Anyone who likes that is autistic shit. sick of retards repeating lines from re-enactments
>>2029150"Experience" isn't always a good thing especially involving Koreans. It breeds complacency and can create steep power gradients.
I feel like Captain Sully lands this craft no problem if he is in the chair.
Shouldn't fucking landing gear have back ups and redundancies!?
where's the blackbox?
>>2029161Being cooked wight now.
>>2029159It does, they have a gravity drop method if the hydraulics fail (and that itself has redundancies)>>2029161In the tail, but they are built pretty damn tough so it's not really a worry. They already recovered it afaik.>>2029089I would have not landed at 180 knots and 2/3rds the way down the runway.
/ourguy/ released a videohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzmptA6s-1g
>>2029150Their names were released, the PIC was Sum Ting Wong and the FO is called Wi Tu Lo
>>2029169Holy fuc! Bang ding ow
>>2029161Recovered. Those things are built to survive 1000 degree C fires and 250g forces on impact.
>>2029163>>2029172I know, but where's the information from the Blackbox
>>2029173They take time to decode, it's stored in a medium which only a handful of labs in the world can decode (most go to the NTSB or the French equivalent for decode)
>>2029163>It does, they have a gravity drop method if the hydraulics fail (and that itself has redundancies)Then how did this fucking happen!?
>>2029175Could be pilot error, failing to lower the gear
>>2029176How is that even remotely possible!? Isn't there a massive red lights and alarms literally saying "Landing Gear!" "Landing Gear!"
>>2029177Yes, there's a warning, but they were likely dealing with engine failure and got too focused on that.
>>2029174ok
Is there anything else plane could do to slow down before hitting concrete wall? Could they decompress the cargo bay and maybe the blast would kick them out of the way?
>>2029181If the reverse thrust and flaps worked correctly it would have slowed them down more
>>2029182Why would they not work? Do they rely on hydraulics?
>>2029183We just don't know right now
>>2029183The plane had hydro and electric power. The pilots had controlled flight. If gear was down, they prolly be ok. Ground effects carried them 3/4 of the way down the runway. IDK why the landing gear was up. Reverse thrust won't help you when you're still going 150 knots at the end of the runway.
>>2029177I think you need to invest 20-30 seconds for the manual gear lowering and it takes another 2 minutes
>>2028980Now I'm kinda curious why this guy was on the roof of this building ready to film. Maybe he's just a planespotter kinda guy? seems like a pretty comfy spot if so.
>>2029122>Pilots themselves say middle is the safestAKSHULLY that is located directly over the main fuel tank, and you're fucked if it blows>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TWA_Flight_800
The names of the crew got publishedCaptain Kim We-GaanFirst Officer Park In-WaalAttendands Sea Gul-Hit, Mi Yong-DiSurvivors Kim Yoo-Suk and Ok In-Bak
>>2029150>>2029153reminder that van Zanten was KLM's chief of flight training.
>>2028980Nice analysis anonI did some more analysis with the video using more points and I think it looks like the plane touches down at about 200 knots and crashes at 160 knots. This could be totally off but it looks like they were fucked once they landed.Also if they’d landed in the first few hundred meters they would’ve decelerated and stopped either shortly before the threshold or on the grass
>normal every day bird strike >not even a blade out >fire suppression works >"lose" hydraulics (how)>"lose" power (how)>dont manually deploy landing gear >land more than halfway down the runway >at takeoff speed>run into the looney-toons berm >die is it really as simple as shitty piloting killed all those people? Horrible situation, but i genuinely cant see how this could have been handled worse.
>>2029193Ground effects prevented touchdown.
>>2029185Could they transfer auxiliary power to the gear thrust?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vjMRCG7Mjgpointless concrete structure killed them
>>2029194Bird strikes happen pretty regularly on planes don't they? Like every pilot has had several of them.
>>2029196Landing Gear is Gravity operated. They didn't lower the wheels!!!!
>>2029198>>2029198Pilots train 1-multiple times a year for bird strike situations. Also, you ESL faggot, "normal every day" is a term of phrase that means not exceptional or out of the ordinary, eg they didnt ingest a flying pig (your mother).
>>2029008There probably should be a sensor that tells the aircraft has landed on its belly. Something that only gets exposed when you scrape on the ground for a while, that overrides the "don't use thrust reverse without gear on the ground" manifest.
>>2029113the wall is at the end of the airport. is the airport supposed to extend indefinitely in all directions just in case a plane lands full speed with no landing gear down?I swear to god you motherfuckers are actually fucking mentally disabled
>>2029125south korea has an inverse problemthey are so fucking patriotic that if you are korean, you get the job over anyone else, no matter how competent you are
>>2029207retard, nobody is talking about the wall the end of the airport, but the massive block of concrete that has no reason to exist
>>2029210it's literally at the end of the fucking airport
>>2029187>Maybe he's just a planespotter kinda guy?most likelythey are common nowadays
bunch of dead gooks who cares kino squid games s3 tho
>>2029197Yes, the wall will definitely be one of the factors that caused the death but weren't they approaching the runway from the other direction which normally isnt used at that airport ? The biggest unanswered question at the moment is why choose exactly this approach ? Was it a rushed "lets wing it" landing or was it their only option and they simply didnt know of the wall of deaths existence and hoped to overshoot the runway a bit in worst case scenario
>>2028961>hydrolics>waitget a deectionaree and keel yourselv
>>2029189i don't get mi yong di
>>2029078Civilian planes normally don't carry onboard systems to detect incoming missiles. They probably didn't know there was a missile after them until contact.
You all retards are speaking as if dropping the landing gear would have been enough to stop this from happening
>>2029233You're a bit funny in the head anon. Yes getting the gear down would have stopped this from happening are you fucking retarded?
>>2029234Ah, yes, a no flaps no reversers no airbrakes landing at over 200 knots with less than half of a runway left and a plane full of fuel would have totally been averted by simply stepping on the brakes, they are that good!
>>2029236it wasn't full of fuel, he fucked up the landing because he'd never belly landed a plane before and wasn't ready for the ground effect. There must be a dozen examples of planes emergency landing with nothing but wheel brakes.
>>2029237i know hindsight is 20/20 but holy fuck ground effect is something you learn about while learning to fly a fucking cessnawtf is wrong with gooks?
>>2029238I'm just assuming he wasn't ready for how strong the ground effect was when he's like 2' off the deck. Also because he was attempting a belly landing he came in a lot flatter than a normal landing. Those are the only reasons I can think of why he landed like half way down the runway.
>>2029215They should turn it into a ramp that planes can use to take off again.
>>2029232The FAA is about to make it a requirement to get close to russia
>>2029048>usually
>>2029091>>All the clueless fags on the internet complaining about the wallLike this pilot and professor of aviation?oh no no no no no
>>2029250>not within safety standardsThat's bullshit when there are plenty of other airfields that have hardened obstructions within 1000' of the runway ends or simply drop off a fucking cliff. I'm sure Muan was built "within standard" since ICAO only requires like 200m of safety zone off the departure end, and this berm in question was about 300m. Now the question is whether ICAO should change its standard for the off-chance pilots completely botch an emergency landing and overrun a 3000m runway at 150+ kts and/or if South Korea will review all of its airfields to find and remove these localizer death walls. For this specific crash the existence of the berm probably didn't even matter since there's a brick perimeter fence less than 100m past the localizer.
>>2028999>foaming up runwayDoesn't do shit except waste precious firefighting foam>friction reducingWHY? If anything they needed more friction to get them to stop in time.>reverse thrust >from wingsHoly retard. Either way the reversers couldn't be activated because there was no weight on the wheels. And I'm not sure, but reverse thrust on only one engine sounds stupid dangerous. Wouldn't the plane just turn and flip over sideways?tl;dr redditor is retarded
>>2029258Just do a 180 with the handbrake and go full throttle retard
>>2029177I can imagine a set of circumstances where EGPWS inhibits "too low, gear" warnings. High airspeed within airport vicinity e.g. In that case EGPWS will probably assume a go around.
>>2029215It’s not what you think it is
>>2029206Radar altitude smaller than zero? Could be interesting
>>2029238Fun fact they likely have never flown a Cessna or even hand flown a plane GA is not legal in Korea and it sounds like they have a genuinely awful safety culture that did not learn anything from KAL 801, KAL Cargo 8509, and Asiana 214.https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/s/vkdQ5vGrKX
>>2029263>GA is not legal in Koreathat doesn't sound right
>>2029262No, like, you know how brake pads in modern cars have a wire embedded in them that gets broken when the pads get worn down and then the car throws a code that says you should replace them? Same can be used here. If all of these wires placed across the bottom half get broken, you send the "fuck we've belly landed, alow reverse thrust cuz we got no brakes otherwise".
I'm not a pilot, but wouldn't it have been a better idea to create asymmetric thrust with the engines so the plane skids off to the side, rather than going full speed into a concrete wall and dirt mound?
>>2029268that's the problem, they had no enginesone engine went kaputother engine was shut down because pilots thought it was the kaput one
>>2029264You're right, it's legal but it's nowhere nearly as easily accessible as it is in the West or even Japan. Most aviation training is military or done in other countries.https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/flying-in-south-korea.129575/
>>2029269the plane circled for 45 minutes. The accidentally shut down the wrong engine theory doesn't make sense.
If it's Boeing I ain't going
media reporting that the FDR and one of the black boxes were damaged before they could be recovered. CVR is ok
>>2029274NVM the earlier reports that the plane was hit at 8:20 and crashed at 9:05 were apparently wrong.
Questions Arise Over Concrete Wall Near Runway in South Korea Crashhttps://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/30/business/plane-crash-korea-wall-investigation.html
>>2029286>Questions Arise Over Concrete Wall Near Runway in South Korea Crashblah blah blahit was pilot error
>>2029263Korean pilots do their initial training in the USA. Mostly at HAA in Oregon if memory serves.Any ICAO certificate will require solo and PIC time, so nobody is skipping the step of flying a trainer in the circuit. Are these young pilots being rushed through that step by shady chop shop US flight schools? Absolutely, but they are flying in them.
Hmmmm. Theories. My theory...my thoughts...my opinion, but the flaps? what about the birds. Ah I know it was a compressor! Hmmmm maybe a wall? WALL BAD! BUT...JUST MOVE THE WALL! SAVED! YAY I'M SMART.
>>2029286Maybe runways should all be ten miles long from now on, for the next time this happens.
>>2029297you're illiterate lol
Pilot had controlled flight right to the beginning of the runway. At least one engine was still running at the end of the runway. (You can hear it slowing down, even after the explosion) I think they were overwhelmed in the cockpit and forgot to lower gear.
>>2028899I am just a average type dude incapable of understanding high IQ Asian Greatness, but why did they put a giant fucking wall at the end of a runway?
Can anyone make an edit of the runway plane driving through the ,magdeburg christmas mart?
Gooks switched off the wrong engine because they mixed up Reft and Light
>>2029300to stabilize the antennas. thirdie engineering.
>>2029303When?
>>2029300>at the end of the runwaywell beyond the emasthe plane never should have been there, or even remotely close. what, should the runway area extend indefinitely?
>>2028899Holy shit this is like a perfect visual representation of a woman turning 30
>>2029306you are illiterate
>>2029298>>2029308Dumbass.
>>2029310learn how to read
>>2029308>>2029312you flaming retard that wall wasn't "at the end of the runway", it was well beyond the safety zones+margin>bbbbut don't put wlal!!!!kinda moot because, see above
>>2029315you can't build a wall like that. wouldn't happen in a western country.
>>2029316are you actually braindead?
>>2029317why would you build a wall there?
>>2029299It wasnt just gear, it was flaps too, way too fast and late touchdown. Something was clearly wrong. >>2029317The placement of the wall is unusual, western experts have admitted that. Of course its not the only reason for the crash but a serious factor
>>2029315>>2029317ILLITERATE retard. You don't build a massive wall beneath the antennas. The antennas and whatever they're built upon are meant to fall apart if a plane crashes there
>>2029318it shouldn't have been there, but they were so far off the runway that they were going to hit something anyway.
The Wall is a great way to tell who has autism and who doesn't. >Why would they put a wall at the end of the runway>Errmmmm actually it's at the beginning of the runway so there's no way it could be hit>Ok but what if there's an emergency and you need to use the runway in the opposite direction>But the runway goes the other direction
>>2029321but all the deaths were caused singlehandedly by the pointless concrete block. There's nothing else that could've caused the plane to explode.
>>2029321the cinderblock outer wall isn't much of an obstacle the plane would have smashed through that easily. Maybe a couple of cars on the road would have been hit but the plane would probably have stopped safely if the reinforced concrete at the end of the runway wasn't there.
Lol, there was a bigger airport about 5 minutes away.Surely they could have made it there.They had the speed.
>>2029320but the wall was at the beginning of the runway
>>2029328so what
If Sully was flying this plane, would he have put it in the drink? There is a lot of water there to ditch. Also water on the other end too so it wouldn't matter what way they face? If no landing gear isn't it safer to ditch in water?
Better pilot crew would have saved it.Also FUCK USA AND BOEING
This is a good article desu.https://dnyuz.com/2024/12/30/from-bird-strike-to-crash-the-mystery-of-the-korean-planes-four-fateful-minutes/
>>2029332Seethe.
>>2029334Nice flying garbage can
>muh concrete wallGee I don't fucking know maybe it's there because they're not expecting a FUCKING PLANE TO LAND TWO-THIRDS DOWN THAT RUNWAY AT 170KTS
>>2029195Okay taking that into account, yeah, that plane was fucked.Since the 737-800 doesn't have a fuel dump, if they could've burned off fuel (assuming they could under the circumstances) could decelerating have been greater?
>>2029330it wasn't at the end
how long do we have to wait for the black box/investigation findings? [spoiler]who is the best youtuber to follow for more information?[/spoiler]
>>2029348In a month or so, but final report might take some time.
>>2029337Doesn’t matter. Concrete block killed them all.
>>2029350What are you saying is that we should arrest concrete blocks for being murderous savages?
>>2029353Engineer should be prosecuted
>muh wallthe brick wall was a non issue. the plane smashed into a huge dirt mound beyond the wall.>muh pilots shutting down the wrong enginethe no. 1 engine was clearly audible until the end. they performed a go around and tightly circled back to the runway perfectly center line aligned. they were in full control of the plane.>muh pilots forgotting the landing gearthere were no flaps and slats either. reportedly they performed a low pass after the bird strike to have the tower check the landing gear. points towards (multiple) systems failure.>muh runway only works in one directionit's the 01/19 runway of a new international airport that's set to serve the greater gwangju area. come on.>muh korean airflight safety culturethey've come a long long way since their awful track record up until the 90s. that reddit post is ancient.my current theory is that the bird strike caused an engine failure which somehow triggered multiple critical systems to fail at once through some freak chain of events, which in turn made the pilots decide they had to land as soon as possible with no time to go through the checklists or even consider diverting. the plane ended up in some unholy ground effect limbo that made it impossible to either put it down or try another go around. people will learn a number of things from this, though nothing will bring back the dead. RIP.
>>2029360>Awful track record That reddit post was made right after Asiana 214, and there's another article where Korean pilots were switching to Chinese airlines for better safety culture from 2016.There was another article that claimed it was their second attempt at the landing and that smoke started after the first attempt, my personal opinion is poor CRM had something to do with it.
>>2029348>who is the best clickbaiting buttmokey to follownone
>>2029037How would they deploy thrust reversers without weight on the landing gear?
>>2029297Make it a ten x ten mile square please
>>2029331people gave sully shit for ditching it in the hudson instead of turning back to land and it was a double engine failurelanding on anything other than an available runway is borderline criminal>>2029360>the bird strike caused an engine failure which somehow triggered multiple critical systems to fail at once through some freak chain of events,if boeing designed a plane for which something like this is possible then they deserve to go bankruptonly an uncontained engine failure could cause something like this and the videos don't show that kind damage on the engines. also i can't think of a single incident where a bird strike caused an uncontained engine failure
>>2029370But isn't landing on water better than on runway if you have no landing gear?
>>2029368make it a CIRCULAR RUNWAY
>>2028999>737>fuel jettisonouch ouwie
>>2029192
>>2029373What about just ejecting the Fucking drop tanks!
>>2029360>the brick wall was a non issue. the plane smashed into a huge dirt mound beyond the wall.Not that it would make a difference but can somebody confirm this?
>>2029371as long as you don't try to go around after scraping your engines on the runway for a bit, or waste half of the runway length hovering because you've never heard of ground effect, landing on the runway is betterif you can make it to a runway, then you should be landing there; there aren't many places where you can get a few kilometers of flat terrain with no obstacles* and a fire service on standby to rescue you within a couple of minutes
>>2029207Holy shit this
>>2029370>if boeing designed a plane for which something like this is possible then they deserve to go bankruptSully's plane was a Boeing A320 and had that happen
>>2029380>Boeing A320anyway, they "just" had a double engine loss with no further chain of failure. they had full electric and hydraulic control after they started the APUs and extended the RAT as per the failure checklist
>>2029377Looking around the airport on Google maps, they probably ran into this thing.
>>2029380>>2029381>Boeing A320goddamn i'm slow (retarded)
>>2029286This is like blaming the Armco in a car crash.
>>2029389Improperly installed armcos that instead of collapsing decapitate the cars occupants are actually a thing https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2024/07/pennsylvania-tik-tok-mason-guardrail-kid-road-safety-penndot/
>>2028900>Why were they going so fast that far down the runway? Did they only touch down with only like a quarter of the tarmac left?>>2028907South Korean pilots have a long history of shortcutting and making poor decisions. Video clearly shows the jet not configured for landing. No flaps, no landing gear, no reduced speed. Rumours are the pilot was a young hotshot and early indications that he shut down the wrong engine after the other one went out after a foreign object ingestion (supposedly a bird). When the investigation is over you're going to see the pilots performed numerous mistakes. It's so shamefull someone will lose their job over this.
>>2029397The pilots should lose their jobs for this.
>>2029382If you look closely you can actually see that that's what actually happened
>>2029398Not happening. They're dead
I'm hearing another Jeju Air plane of the same model had some landing gear issues, through this one landed safely.
>>2029399>>2029382
Don't runways have like gravel pits at the end to stop any runaways?
>>2029404I don't speak moon rune.
>>2029405Some airports now have an overrun area containing low density concrete blocks that are designed to be crushed by the aircraft
>>2029405https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineered_materials_arrestor_system
>>2029407Belly landing would float right over that.
>>2029410Nope, they crush with 300-500lbs iirc, we were always told to never drive on them but you could walk on top of them (just don't jump and down on them if you're fat). Fun fact, the company that made them isn't in business anymore iirc, we have a few replacement pads in stock.The one at LGA stopped Mike Pence's plane from overrunning 22. JFK has them on 4R/22L due to the runway length (8400ft and takes A380 landings)https://flightsafety.org/pence-runway-excursion/
>>2029366>How would they deploy thrust reversers without weight on the landing gear?No idea but they did. This whole thing is fucking bizarre and makes no sense.I'm wondering if they were panicking too much and forgot the landing gear. They realised their mistake once they started scraping on the runway and (being idiots blinded by panic) applied power to the remaining engine in a desperate and futile attempt to take off again, which only had the outcome of causing them to slam into the wall at 180 knots.That's just a wild guess though. I don't think we're going make any sense of this cavalcade of failure until the preliminary report comes out.
>>2029419>>2029366737 uses radar altimeter for reverser operation, not WoW- they unlock below 10ft and the reversers are hydraulically driven.http://www.b737.org.uk/powerplant.htm
Honestly even if they didn't hit a wall/giant dirt mound, wouldn't they have all died anyways?The plane would have kept wildly careening down the runway out of control until it hit uneven terrain and then probably started flipping and then explodes anyways
>>2028971>HUNDREDSWhoa hundreds? There's no possible way such a vital piece of infrastructure could be diverted away from a runway. Certainly not one that is used by HUNDREDS of people a year.
>>2029046>it seems to just be a second angle of the final attempt?That's exactly how the video was described to you, retard
>>2029078>Embraer passenger jet>Missile lock warningAnon...
>>2029087There's a legal requirement for exactly this, CFR 121.617. If your on the takeoff roll and an engine suddenly explodes, the aircraft needs to be able to take off and fly to another airport an hour away.
>>2029091Putting impenetrable objects a few hundreds meters after the end of the tarmac is completely retarded. Regular brick walls, fences etc. can be plowed through in a scenario like this without catastrophic damage
>>2029297Planes overshooting runways isn't particularly unheard of and normal obstructions like walls and fences don't cause planes to explode
>>2029421No, a 40+ tonne plane scraping along is belly isn't going to suddenly flip from hitting uneven terrain. It would have eventually stopped and most likely everyone would have survived.
PULL UPWOOP WOOPPULL UPSNEED, SNEED SNEED
>>2029419And the flaps in wrong position as well?
>>2029433it would have cartwheeled on the slightest bit of uneven grounddon't be retarded
>>2029360No birdstrike can take out all these systems. Gook pilots are famous for being shit, they rely too much on automation and can't fly manually. But gooks have too much pride and will try to put the blame on boeing.
>>2029447>09:00 go around>09:02 touch down in one pieceThat's impressive ngl
>>2029451>09:03 hit concrete wall travelling at 200mphVery impressive
>>2029447why were they in such a hurry
>>2029445boeing should start making good planes instead of blaming everything on nonwhites every time one of their planes kills another 300
>>2029455most likely they thought that they couldn't go around a second timeeither because they had two engines off (whether the second failed or was shut down by mistake), some fire alarm going off after the bird strike giving them a sense of urgency, or hard tunnel vision by cpt/PF who thought that the airplane wasn't airworthy because of some reason or other with a FO that didn't say anything because CRM hasn't been invented in worst korea
yes, that's what I was talking about. If you watch the clip slowly, you can actually see the plane hit that thing rather than the wall.
>>2029066>>2029088Superior brazilian engineering (wings were folded a brazillion of times)
>>2029455Panic is the leading theory.There is simply no way they could have elevator and ailerons but not have flaps, spoilers and landing gear. It doesn’t make any sense, which means that cockpit must have been a royal shitshow.
>>2029461Yup, hold my beer, I got this. Sir??????
>>2029456There's no way to prevent pilots from fucking up
>>2029360There is simply no way they could’ve maneuvered the plane as quickly as they did for landing AND been perfectly oriented on centerline if they had the time of systems failures that would’ve prevented them from configuring for landing.It just doesn’t square, either you can rip the plane around AND configured it for landing or you can’t do either. They were not dead stick, clearly they were flying the thing all the way into the berm.
>>2029445>Gook pilots are famous for being shit, they rely too much on automation and can't fly manually>>2029447that maneuver was excellent and definitely not on autopilot
>>2029476flying doesnt just mean pointing the plane in the right direction, it also involves things such as extending your landing gear before landing, not touching down at vne, and not getting overwhelmed by an event that will happen to 99% of pilots in their career
>incomprehensible series of decision>asian pilotsYou just know it's going to be a "culture" issue initiated by a minor and completely resolvable technical problem.
>>2029461Someone should make a dramatic reenactment, with cockpit greenscreen and full on buckteeth and rice patty hats just shouting gibberish at each other in cartoonishly racist accents while alarms go off everywhere.
>>2029490>cockpit greenscreengif related
>ctrl f pajeet0 resultsodd, since corporate greed and incompetent pajeets are responsible
