hahahahaha SUC

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belts suck

There's no free lunch: belts are quiet and don't require lubrication, but are less efficient at transmitting power than chains, require frames designed to accept them, and can't be used with derailer gearing. So they don't make sense for performance bikes, but can work well for basic bikes that will receive infrequent maintenance.

>>2029575
different use case.
>>2029565
They are neat but expensive and 100% unnecessary. A nice single speed chain lasts a damn long time and is dirt cheap

>>2029584
>derailer

Solution in search of a problem.

>>2029565
great for normies that don't do maintenance (99% of people). it lasts at least 3x longer than a chain, doesn't need to be lubed, doesn't rust in the rain. ideal for ebikes with internal hub gearing. for performance a derailleur setup is superior.

belts could be great but we need improvements on..

Preload tension- need a workaround so that belts aren't less efficient at lower levels

Gradient shifting- need to find a way to shift belts through expanding 'cassette' Or Something, instead of going up to a prefix tooth, gearing up by infinitely divisible "gradient"

in short, belts aren't good, and so for them to have any uptake or advancements for bike use, they need to have something that chains don't or can't have.

Personally I think belts should be V-grove and friction sustained transmission, not chain-style timing belts, but we're only there yet.

>>2029677
>Gradient shifting
You mean CVT and speaking of, there's finally a non-friction geared CVT now and it's close to production. Current prototypes are actually for
geared for bicycle
https://youtu.be/mWJHI7UHuys

>>2029705
Damn, nice to see.
I always wanted to try the davinci hub

>>2029706
They suck hard, it has something like 30% transmission losses

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>>2029565
>gates (r) carbon drive (tm) belt for a bicycle - 110 dollars
>genuine bosch timing belt for my corolla - 11 dollars
explain this by anything other than greed supplemented by consumer idiocy
these shits would be the same price as chain setups if [big cycling] didn't designate it as muh premium feature

>>2029708
forgot
>cheap chink belt for my corolla- 5 bucks

>>2029708
Economy of scale.
Only a handful of these special snowflake bicycles, vs those belts are generic mature tech and that particular PN may be used on hundreds of thousands of engines across several different brands

>>2029589
>A nice single speed chain lasts a damn long time
Since you mentioned it, I had a conversation with a continental tourist who runs primarily belts, I asked how many miles he gets out of a belt. The last belt he ran he got about 100k miles out of it with regular sprocket changes (I forgot the mileage for replacement sprockets). Now I'm a courier that runs single speed and chain, the most I ever got out of a chain was 45k miles and that was stretching it (heh) but on average I replace my chains maybe about every 15-20k miles or so, once they develop the unsolvable clicking noise.

>>2029584
don't those IGHs drip everywhere and require a full teardown by a WOSTEP-authorized technician every couple of thousand miles? what am I supposed to do, disassemble my wheel multiple times a year and ship it off to switzerland?

>>2029710
yeah nah, not buying that. bike standards are wide-reaching, there might be hundreds of thousands of identical corollas, but there are millions of completely different bikes running the same belt standard.

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>>2029710
>generic mature tech
And that's exactly what any genuinely practical tech would use instead of making up their proprietary lock-in exclusive while pretending to improve durability.

Bike chains are essentially a specific size of common mechanical component too.

>>2029750
Belt will last longer but chains are less prone to odd hiccups overall and better at dealing with death mud. If I ever get a bike with a gearbox or IGH I'd pick chain with hardened steel chainrings over its belt equivalent.

>>2029750
Nah, good ones last forever with basic service that doesn't require opening them up and only leak if you're an idiot that overfills them. A few service intervals for reference
>shimano nexus or alfine: 5000km or every two years (bit more complicated)
>rohloff IGH: oil change at 5000km or every year
>pinion gearbox: oil change at 10 000km or every year
The latter two require exactly two tools and are very easy to service.

>>2029849
having to completely disassemble your wheel every 5000km is ok to you?

>>2029849
>>2029750
like seriously come on man, are you serious? was that a typo and you meant to put 50,000km?

>>2029593
Sheldon Brown was a Godless heathen and wrong about many things, but he was correct about refusing to call it anything but derailer. Using the French version of literal copy of an English word is retarded. Do you pronounce it
>De-rye-yur

Didn't think so, faggot.

>>2029750
Not really. Leak issues crop up pretty quick since they are factory assembly issues. If you IGH doesn't leak after a few hundred km then it will last fucking forever. They don't need factory teardowns unless something goes catastrophically wrong which is super rare. You just change the oil every now and then. There is a reason that almost everyone who has a bit of budget to build their giga nigga round the world tour bike puts a rohloff or pinion on it. They have loads of advantages too compared to derailleurs. Derailleurs aren't even cheap now which used to be the best point in their favour.

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>>2029790
>millions of belt driven bikes
Don't make me laugh

>>2029861
I wonder if he ever used the term gruppo?

>>2030784
>he's never seen belt drive city rentals

>>2030804
i haven't
the only times i see belt drives is on very new fancy schmancy e-bikes, which probably constitute less than 0.1% of bikes in the city

>>2030804
Correct. The rentals I've seen are all chain drive

>>2030815
This.

>>2029850
Why not? You're likely to go through at least one chain replacement on a regular bicycle by that point, if you live in the north and have shit weather 80% of the time like I do. If you have better weather, it's very possible that the service interval could be extended.
I doubt an IGH service is any more difficult than a drivetrain service on a regular bike. Even a wheel respoke takes a couple hours when you get the hang of it, this is undoubtedly easier.
Though I don't have IGH on any of my bikes because of frame incompatibility, high weight, low gear range and high price, they certainly need less maintenance and there's less chance of damage during regular use, so they are a good choice for hilly city riding, especially for rental bikes.
>>2029852
I change the engine oil and filter in my car every 5000 km, do you expect a bicycle, a vehicle with it's dirt cheap tiny little components that are exposed to all the road debris, to have 10 times the maintenance interval of an automobile?

>>2029710
nah, that's not it. low volume manufacturing would rise the price, but won't rise the price more than 10x (car belt is a lot higher spec in both precision and strength on top of being 1/10th the price). most of it is manufacturer margin, and the cycling cartel intends to keep it that way instead of giving everyone the option to use belt drive.
and same as with any other bike component, there is zero inscentive for chinks to undercut that price. they could sell bike belts for 10 bucks a piece, but why would they when they can have more profits from lower volumes?

you plan on going on trans-continental biking adventure? no? then belt, while neat idea, is way overkill. Also too expensive for your commuter

>>2029565
When I bought a new bike recently the builder recommended against it. More expensive and harder to repair if goes wrong. Whereas a new chain can be fitted anywhere.

People who value their own time use them.

>>2030912
that's most definitely it
the overwhelming share of costs for any modern mass manufacturing endeavour (i.e. one that produces goods that are affordable to the average consumer) is the upfront/fixed costs
as such, if you have 10x the customers, the product will be almost 10x less expensive, simple as

>>2030970
My uncle used to run a tool and die manufacturing plant back when we made that type of stuff in the USA.

His go-to philosophy was, "once they make the molds crank out as many as you can".

>>2030828

homosexual/10

>>2030979
and that's why he's not a billionaire
artificial scarcity runs the modern economy
making more stuff cheaper doesn't pay off unless you're chinese, big margins on low volume products bring in the big bucks (and even chinese are catching up on the concept)

>>2030924
working on your bike is not wasted time if you enjoy it

>>2031176
nobody enjoys working with chains, they get dirty and disgusting
it's like changing the diapers, no matter how much you like being a parent, that is at best a part that you tolerate

>>2031177
There is nothing good or bad, but thinking makes it so. instead of despairing over how dirty a chain can become, one can feel satisfaction and gratitude in seeing it clean and shiny again.

>>2029565
marketing scheme developed by big rear hub and big bottom bracket

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kino