>Jeju Air black boxes ceased recording before plane crash, South Korea says>Transport ministry is investigating the cause of the data loss following the worst-ever aviation disaster in the country’s historyFDRs and CVRs don't just stop working for no reason. What the fuck is going on?https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/11/jeju-air-black-boxes-ceased-recording-before-plane-crash-south-korea-says
>>2030508This is pretty common when a country realizes one of their own obviously screwed upIt's a face-saving measure, nothing more
it should not be a surprise at this point when safety-related equipment on a boeing jet stops working
>>2030508>What the fuck is going on?It's South Korea, arguably the most corrupt and morally bankrupt country on the planet, and definitely the most of those two in the western sphere of influence. If there was one """democratic""" country that could get away with black boxes """failing""" it's South Korea
>>2030534it's just the logical outcome of putting a small cadre of superstitious oligarchs in charge of a country for generations, there have been multiple heads of state caught taking advice from literal fortune tellers and for the most part those are from the same families that own hyundai or samsung or whatever. america will be that way as soon as the federal government is fully privatized and handed over to one or more of the five families
The FDR and the CVR were sent to the U.S. NTSB to be analyzed there. It was the NTSB that determined that the last 4 minutes are missing. Crucially, the NTSB said that the last 4 minutes were never recorded as opposed to being deleted or damaged later.>>2030509>>2030534>>2030544Sorry to burst your "I saw this on le corruption K-Drama" bubble.
>>2030545Nice attempt at damage control. I'm kidding. It's one of the shittiest narratives I've seen.
Could be that they somehow lost all electronics. This one will be an interesting watch on Mayday after a year or two, investigators will really need to scratch their heads and analyze whatever hard evidence has survived the impact piece by piece
so the whole plane was hit by an EMP or what? how did they still have control and radio? isn't the 738 fly by wire?
>>2030545>Sorry to burst your "I saw this on le corruption K-Drama" bubble.Koreans wish they lived in K-Drama tier corruption that would be utopic compared to the reality.
>>2030555S. Korea has a lot of problems, but much of the English-language YouTuber video essays on it are straight up lies to generate clicks or Asians from other countries seething because they're getting K-shit spammed on social media and it reminds them of how shit their home country is.
Indians were flying the plane, remember.
>>2030551>Maydaybest show ever made ,
>>2030508>FDRs and CVRs don't just stop working for no reasonThey don't, however losing both engines does make them stop
>>2030574Wouldn't the auxiliary or the batteries onboard keep them running? Seems kinda crazy for recorders to go offline with both main engines down.
would the A320, which unlike the 737 was equipped with a RAT, not have suffered a power loss?
Gook pilots turned off the wrong engine and lost all power pretty much confirmed at this point.
>>2030574APU/ram air turbine should have kept them going.
>>2030606>>2030628Flight recorders apparently don't have backup batteries on 737NGs as it wasn't required back in whenever they were built.But yeah I would expect the RAT or APU to power them as a backup. Is it known from images whether the RAT was even deployed? Otherwise maybe flight recorders aren't considered essential when on emergency power and not did not restart, idk
>>2030574doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? fucking boeing "engineers" I swear to god, this is like when they made it so when the AOA sensor fails you crash and die
>>2030632>RAT>>2030614 answers that I guess, no RAT on 737s>>2030637The reasoning was that what matters to find out the cause of a crash is what happens before the engines fail
>>2030614Yes a320s have RATs. It's standard on passenger airliners.
Pilot/Dispatcher here, the way the 737 electrical system works is pretty much as follows:>each engine drives a constant-speed generator>a single generator is capable of providing all the electric power the plane ever needs>in the unlikely event of dual generator failure, the APU can be turned on to provide electric power>in the extremely unlikely event of a dual generator and APU failure, a battery backup is available>this battery powers only the essential flight systems (not FDR) to maximize its usage timeSo that's a triple redundant electrical system, and when you're at the final stage that's when the FDR isn't getting power from the limited battery. Airbus aircraft use the RAT instead, which has it's own set of pluses and minuses. If the FDR was getting no power that lends credence to the idea that the crew shut down the wrong engine and did not have time to start the APU.
>>2030662>>2030661>>2030632>>2030628There is no RAT on any 737. It's not necessary because the 737 type has full manual reversion. It is a completely fly-by-steel-wire aircraft. Even on the Jurassic models, the 36 Ah battery will provide 30 minutes of avionics; plenty of time to fly to the accident site with dual engine failure. More batteries are installed in newer models; however, it is not clear exactly which bus powers the CDR and FDR. One would presume they are powered by a bus that would receive electrical energy from a battery in a dual engine failure situation. Some hydraulic assistance may be available from windmilling engines. >APUThere was absolutely no extra brain cells to start the APU. Also, if there was no battery power for some reason (because this entire situation is so baffling), there would have been nothing to start the APU.
>black boxes don't all have battery backups as standardHUH??????
>>2030703>triply redundant generatorsIt was a different time in 1967 when the 731 was first certified.
What is this hubris lmaohttps://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/42565/does-a-boeing-737-800-have-a-ram-air-turbine-rat>Does a Boeing 737-800 Have a Ram Air Turbine (RAT)?>No it does not, it does not need one
>>2030720See >>2030675 and >>2030673
>>2030673>>2030724I mean I would argue the FDR is an essential flight system
>>2030726I'm being 100% genuine when I tell you I don't think there's a single piece of equipment less essential to an aircraft in flight than the FDR, and that's including the coffee maker
>>2030508You zoomers may be too young to know, but South Korea for a long time was known as one of the countries with the most ass retarded pilots and they'd have frequent deadly crashes. Mostly because they value seniority above all so the copilot would be scared to say or do anything even if the pilot was about to do a mistake that would kill them all.This Jeju air crash was probably no different. The fact that they landed more than halfway through the runway instead of having more time to go through checklists before attempting another landing.The fact that they literally forgot to open the landing gear. It's just retardation all around, the people didn't have to die.
>>2030749Didn't it come out that south korea was being secretly run by a council of witches and the president was just their puppet?
>>2030673Is there a reason why the APU doesn't start automatically in case of a double generator failure (or even single, for redundancy)?
>>2030534>most corrupt and morally bankrupt country on the planetAgainst the most corrupt and morally bankrupt company on the planet. I wouldn't rule either one out
>>2030762I think the correct term is coven. And yes, the President takes advice from a mystic or a fortune teller or something.
>>2030763>Is there a reason why the APU doesn't start automatically in case of a double generator failure (or even single, for redundancy)?In a 737, it doesn't matter because the yoke and rudder pedals are directly connected to the control surfaces. The battery energy is better powering the attitude and airspeed indicators. In every transport category aircraft, an APU start is the most demand that will ever be placed on the batteries. If you have fly-by-wire, and you kill your batteries trying to start the APU (because you are at altitude or something else), you are dead. It is the reason fly-by-wire planes have RATs for emergency AC and hydraulic power. This is also the reason the 737 doesn't have a RAT: it is fly-by-steel-wire.
>>2030768>This is also the reason the 737 doesn't have a RAT: it is fly-by-steel-wire.Apparently it's also a big-brain move to prevent any effective investigation into why their shitty plane crashed
>>2030775Boeings have a skill floor to fly them, that's why pilots love them. Because it's like riding a bicycle without training wheels.
>>2030775See >>2030728
>>2030829>in the event of an emergency, lets disable the thing that records the emergency and helps prevent the emergency from happening againAnon your post was dumb enough the first time.
>>2030830I agree with him.
>>2030830It's not essential to get the plane on the ground. This is a clear case of pilot error exacerbated by local culture. This isn't a systemic problem with the type. For a full explanation of how the CVR and FDR are powered, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKoCI9kVtcSpoiler: the original design never connected them to a battery bus.
>>2030833>>2030840Turning off the flight recorder in an emergency defeats of purpose of having them in the first place. How does the stupidity of this escape you?
>>2030840>Turning off the flight recorder in an emergencyThe flight recorder only stops receiving power if all three redundant sources of AC power fail. At that point the battery backup is the only thing giving the aircraft power and every bit of that needs to go towards the safety of the flight by powering radios, radar, flight instruments and the like. >defeats of purpose of having them in the first placeThe fact it lost power tells us pretty much everything, both engine driven generators were lost and the APU never started up. Only the last couple minutes were lost, which lines up with the theory that they lost one engine, shut down the wrong one and never started the APU.
>>2030844>At that point the battery backup is the only thing giving the aircraft power and every bit of that needs to go towards the safety of the flight by powering radios, radar, flight instruments and the like.How much power can a recording box use compared to a fucking radar?
>>2030863In every video published by a pilot they seem to all say that the right engine was still running when the plane landed so I don't know where this no power assumption is coming from.
>>2030865>I don't know where this no power assumption is coming from.from the fact that the flight recorders stopped recording 4 minutes before the crash, which can pretty much only be caused by losing the main electrical power, ie both engines out and APU off
Do the subhuman tard pilots really need to manually flick a switch, worse, a series of switches, to turn the APU on? Why doesn't it just automatically kick in when power fails?...
>>2030889Starting a jet turbine isn't exactly like the remote start function on your car and the more shit you're automating, the greater the odds the plane starts doing stuff on it's own. That was the entire cause of the Max's fuckups, the plane was erroneously detecting a dangerous nose-up attitude and applying "corrective" action. Hell, I'd even say that the Air France Airbus that went into the Atlantic was caused when an automated system failed, kicked over to manual control and the pilots may not have realized.
>>2030889Leads to unintended consequences. See the other anon's response.
>>2030889>Why doesn't it just automatically kick in when power fails?...An APU start is the highest load that can be placed on the batteries. Now, you are trying to a) simultaneously supply the essential loads and b) to start the APU. The APU start is more challenging for the batteries the higher the altitude. If you kill your batteries, you are dead. That's why most transport category aircraft have RATs as the electrical and hydraulic source of last resort, and that RAT isn't going to give you everything, just enough to make it to the ground. The 737 doesn't need a RAT because it has full manual reversion upon a complete loss of electrical and hydraulic power. The yoke and rudder pedals are directly connected to the control surfaces. The 737 batteries can supply enough power to the essential loads (left side instruments, communications, emergency lighting, fire systems, etc.) to make it to the crash site. >but muh sully started the APU on Cactus 1549Completely different situation. The A320 has two larger main batteries because it is a fly-by-wire aircraft. The batteries have to bridge the gap between complete loss of AC power to supply energy to the computers and hydraulic systems to maintain aircraft control until the RAT deploys. They were about 2500' MSL so they had relatively dense air for a successful APU start and time. They also had some windmilling source of hydraulic and electric power. However, it was not without risk, and it was out-of-sequence in the QRH. This is the difference between cultures in the west and east.
