Looks like someone is slow to learn.

Let the education commence.

I'm poor from paying out of pocket, so I can't afford a pitchfork. Does a sharpened garden rake count?

>>1368125
>prevent "unnecessary" and "unsafe" care
such as?
i'd genuinely like to know
the sheeple masses will just say, "EVERYTHING IS NECESSARY HURR HURR," but if it's true that some care is unnecessary, then those SHOULD get denied

if i was them, i'd also not want to pay for DANIEL'S gender transition surgery
fuck off "Daniella", cut off your own dick

but i'm curious if i'm can actually see what these "unnecessary" and "unsafe" cares are so i can make that decision myself

>>1368326
>Dear Parents or Guardian of Luke:

>UnitedHealthcare Community Plan received a request from Olympic Pharmacy & Healthcare Services on 11/29/2022 for an advanced group three (3) power wheelchair with features. The request was reviewed on 12/2/2022 by a medical director, Carter Sigmon, MD.

>Based on review of the information provided, the request for an advanced group three (3) power wheelchair with features was denied on 12/2/2022.
>The reason for the denial is: Your child's doctor asked for an advanced group three (3) power wheelchair with features. These are requested to help your child's mobility. This is because your child has cerebral palsy.

>This is a condition that can cause muscle weakness. We reviewed your child's health plan rules. If a wheelchair is not approved, its features cannot be approved. To approve this power wheelchair, your child's records must clearly show all the following:

>A simpler wheelchair is not available to help with your child's mobility
>A simpler wheelchair cannot meet your child's needs

>We also reviewed your child's records that were sent to us. They show the following:

>A simpler wheelchair is available to help with your child's mobility
>A simpler wheelchair can meet your child's needs

>Unfortunately, this request is not approved. It is not medically necessary. A simpler group two (2) power wheelchair may be asked to be reviewed. Please speak with your child's doctor if you have any questions.

-https://x.com/theJoShPENNER/status/1864596461645889575/photo/1

Note that G3P wheelchairs are typically assigned for cerebral palsy:

>Common Diagnoses for Group 3 Power Wheelchair
...
>>Cerebral Palsy
...

-https://hub.permobil.com/blog/group-3-power-wheelchairs

>Group 3 power wheelchairs are reserved for the severely impaired patient afflicted with diseases such as: ... cerebral palsy...

-https://med.noridianmedicare.com/web/jddme/dmepos/pmds/group-3-power-wheelchair-requirements

>>1368337
lol should we even give people with cp treatment? seems like a waste to me. i'm no the only one who comes to this conclusion. M. trump said the same thing and hes a very sharp tack.

>>1368337
>it is not medically necessary
based

>>1368337
>$20,000 starting price
>can go up to $50,000
YOU DO NOT NEED A $20,000 WHEELCHAIR
no wonder health insurance denies your shit, you fuckers sink cash while paying the minimum while i just want to get my balls checked on the cheap

>>1368337
This right here is why I love American insurance. Seeing a spoiled brat not get their luxury product is based. They can make do with a regular wheelchair.

>>1368338
This. If you're not contributing to society/economy, why should you get treatment? Cerebral palsy shouldn't be something that my money is going to treat. As Trump and Hitler said, these people are useless eaters.

>>1368337

I'm with the insurance companies on this one. This is absolutely unnecessary care. Kid should just make do with a regular chair. Life ain't fair, and it shouldn't be, and the sooner people accept it, the better we'll all be.

>>1368368
>>1368367
>>1368361
>>1368352
>>1368338
So you guys are absolutely okay with insurance panels, who usually do not have medical doctors on them, overruling your doctor and deciding on your treatment? Isn't that a bit like a death panel?

>>1368371
Fuck yes. Doctors don't know shit. Just because you got a diploma doesn't mean anything cept you went to an leftist indoctrination camp. We know these quacks overprescribe treatments to steal more money from insureres. Insurance is just applying some reason to the process. As for the deat panel shit, that's not the own you think it is libtard. Government shouldn't be able to step between my doctor and me because I never okayed it in an formal agreement. I havve signed over decision making to the insurance though, and I trust the profit incentive to keep them straight and treat me fair, or they'll lose customers. Those panels help optimize costs and put money directly back into my pocket. A bit of pain ain't worth 50000 dollars when a 100 dollar substitute would work but you are in pain. That is capitalism, something that's clearly too smarty for you leftists.

>>1368373
>The doctors are just trying to steal money
>as opposed to the corporations, who are just trying to stop ME from getting scammed
holy fuck this cope.

>>1368371
>doctors, who obviously get a cut, pointing fingers rather than providing most cost efficient alternatives
yes
the health insurance companies are even willing to pay for those expensive wheelchairs if the person needs it however they say, "fuck you" to people abusing that system to get unnecessary luxury medical devices

if these health insurance companies are actually causing deaths (like redditors on here say they do) that'd be a different story but 99% of the time it's some jack off that wants some $20,000 procedure or equipment that usually isn't necessary and only lines the pockets of the doctors

i'm unbaised though, i don't care much either way so feel free to drop a statistic that proves healthcare insurance companies deny lifesaving treatment more than they accept it

>>1368373
I'll agree - that especially in the model you've deployed - doctors will overprescribe treatments, but generally this is the fault of kickbacks from pharmacrops more than trying to fuck over insurances.
Government shouldn't step in between you and your doctor - but then again, neither should another doctor unless *you've* asked them. The profit incentive you qoute is built into their pricing structure, denying claims allows 'bonus' profit. You can trust If I make more money by screwing you over more, then you should invest in lube. But that's capitalism, and "too smarty" for dumbfuckistanis.
On the "they'll lose customers" argument, evidence suggests otherwise. Despite legendary levels of screwing over their victims, I mean customers, they still seem to have plenty. Despite being over twice the industry average for denial. If these "free market forces" you worship was so beneficial, why do they have *any* customers? Based on that single denial record holding fact alone they should have zero. Because every other option has to be 'better'. Clearly, this isn't how things work in the real world.

>Those panels help optimize costs and put money directly back into my pocket.
No. They put money directly into the companies pockets. What you pay remains the same. Because profit. But that's capitalism, something that's clearly "too smarty" for you.

>A bit of pain ain't worth 50000 dollars when a 100 dollar substitute would work
You prove the 50k solution is just an overpriced 100 dollar solution and I'll agree with you. Typically tho, there is a difference in these solutions. And that difference matters to the people that have to suffer it.

I do hope you obtain a crippling injury, I hope your medical insurance skimps out on the 1 dollar solution instead of spending 50k giving you a semblence of quality of life.

>>1368386
I work in health insurance and love it when those 100000000 dollar procedures get denied. We have limited resources, both money and medical. Doctors will always do the most expensive treatment, not just because more money, but because these procedures are .1% better at maximizing outcomes than ones half their price. Doctors refuse to optimize, so it's up to us to do it. It's like sure, staying at the hospital a few days after a surgery is probably more comfortable than being discharged for home recovery (and doctors always push for it), but is it worth the resources? Pain is pain. If it's not going to kill you, just tough it out.

>>1368386
>I do hope you obtain a crippling injury, I hope your medical insurance skimps out on the 1 dollar solution instead of spending 50k giving you a semblence of quality of life.
nta and am no health professional but from what i've seen, people usually mock insurance companies while the insurance companies seem to get screwed over

"haha, my insurance company hates me right now!"

while they're sitting in $10,000 bed because they're so fucking fat they can't function; yet all they literally need to do is walk around a bit and stop eating so many fucking calories

just make it make logical sense
people say these companies are so fucking "evil" yet they seem to help more lives than they don't
if this wasn't the case, people would just not get insurance at all however people get insurance because they know it generally works

what i see with my own eyes is people trying to screw over and abuse a system put in place to help them
then, when they don't get EXACTLY what they want, they fucking whine and complain about it even though their treatment is un-fucking-necessary and/or could've been avoided by not being such a selfish cunt
i know it's hard to put the fucking donuts down but you attempting to kill yourself with food is making MY premium go up too, dumb fuck, and i care take of myself

i have insurance for accident sake, not for negligence
sometimes I think that some of these fat fucks or people that put themselves in deathly situations on purpose deserve the same fate the CEO got, except that's "wrongthink" because only rich people deserve to be murdered

fucks sake why am i wasting my time writing this?

>>1368389
The docs don't want to keep you in after surgery because it's more confortable. In fact, most people are more comfortable at their own home and the first thing I did once I could walk after surgery was discharge myself...

What they want to keep you around for is shit going pete tong. If it does, they're on hand. Which is handy, because they're possibly liable.

>We have limited resources, both money and medical.
And knowing this, you advertise you're capable? Sounds like negligence to me. You go to a resteraunt for steak - then find out despite 20x 4 seater tables they only get in 5 steaks in a day, would you be happy?

>Doctors will always do the most expensive treatment .... because these procedures are .1% better at maximizing outcomes
I argue the 0.1%. Regardless, they're picking the *best outcome* for their patient. Which is kinda their jerb, if you think about it.

>Doctors refuse to optimize
Got any sauce on that? In my observation doctors are - and surgeons especially - incredibly restricted in what they're allowed to do. They're no allowed to experiment on the general public which then leaves them the only option of doing that which has been done before, how it was done before, becuase that was 'proven'. With regards to consumables, they might rip open a bottle o saline solution and only use 1/3 of it but *legislation* prevents that other 2/3 being used on another patients care, not the desire to scam the insurance outta another bottle...

>>1368391
>while they're sitting in $10,000 bed because they're so fucking fat they can't function
In these examples, you can count me in your camp. However, the larger number of things I see complained about are not quite so self-inflicted. Case in point, the wheelchair example above for CP. Yes, the kid could sit in a cheaper chair. That more expensive model allows to do more, and would give this child a much better quality of life.

>what i see with my own eyes is people trying to screw over and abuse a system put in place to help them
This isn't unique to the medical insurance sector. In some cases it's outright selfish greed. But a lot of this 'abuse' of 'the system' is born of the system itself. Once it's obvious you will be getting screwed the natural countermeasure is to put in for far excess of requirements so when it gets cut back you're still where you need to be...

>I think that some of these fat fucks or people that put themselves in deathly situations on purpose deserve the same fate the CEO got, except that's "wrongthink" because only rich people deserve to be murdered
Kinda with you on that, too. I don't think "rich people" deserve to be murdered, Just the ones that accumulated their wealth through the suffering of others. Sounds just. To me at least.

>fucks sake why am i wasting my time writing this?
That a rhetorical question, or....

>>1368337

The insurance companies are also denying basic necessary medical procedures, like only paying for 1/2 hour of anesthesia when two hours is needed, making the operation impossible.

>>1368367
I could be said that a wheelchair, which is about as complex as a child's ride-on toy, shouldn't cost as much as a new car.
That's part of the problem. DME is poorly regulated and vastly inflated.
No one complains about that though. Just the insurance companies not paying a ridiculous price for some bent tubing and a shitty electric engine.

>>1368431
>could be said that a wheelchair, which is about as complex as a child's ride-on toy, shouldn't cost as much as a new car.
So why don't you manufacture a cheaper alternative and corner the market?
It's so easy. Hurr durr.

>>1368442
wheelchairs are literally just bicycle wheels attached to a patio chair. The only thing you need to make them is a pipe bender, a hacksaw, drill and a welder.

they should cost $300.

>>1368445
They need to not break when you're using them on a daily basis, which your hillbilly pipe wheelchair probably will after a few days at most

>>1368445
Truly, spoken like a complete fuckin retard.

Start building your $300 wheelchairs and let me know how it goes for you. Maybe Google what "liability" means.

>>1368445
You can buy wheelchairs in this ballpark - and they're pretty much as you describe, bent tubing with wheels crammed on. There's a little more to it than that, but it's the gist. It most likely won't be powered and likely be rated for 'casual' use not 'constant'.

In the case outlined above this type of chair would be unsuitable pure because constant use. You can get something rated for this for another few hundred - Still just bent tubing with wheels slapped on.

For $3k, in this country that'll get you a touch more than bent tubing - either magnesium/aluminium alloys or carbon fibre - automatic folding when you're done with it, puncture proof tires, and a remote control for the 'tardwrangler.

The difference in the last two options, in terms of quality of life for the child is significant. He'd be generally unable to push himself so dependant on third party - the 3'rd one would allow him to do it. Spend tomorrow not doing anything unless there's someone else there...

>>1368449
>Maybe Google what "liability" means
>insurance and unethical lawyers are why a chair less complex than a bicycle costs $40,000
It is really weird how all of life's problems seem to be caused by insurance companies.

>>1368461
Bro you can't even get a custom welded square for $300.
Grow the fuck up.

>>1368461
Honestly probably more of the latter than the former. The insurance company sure as fuck doesn't want to pay 40k for a wheelchair.
On a related topic, there's a handicapped dude who lives in California with one of these unethical lawyers he pays, and the dude literally just rolls around town and finds restaurants or businesses that aren't fully handicapped accessible and he sues them.
Dude files about 200 lawsuits a year. His name is Chris Langer and this is how he makes his living

You better believe that a $300 wheelchair costs 40k because of shit like this. Insurance companies sure as fuck don't want these things to be expensive.

>>1368474
>the dude literally just rolls around town and finds restaurants or businesses that aren't fully handicapped accessible and he sues them.
This is exactly how black people got access to hospitals and how the ADA was originally enforced. It's a shitty system but it's the only one we have.

>>1368475
>It's a shitty system but it's the only one we have.
It's a shitty system and pretty much nowhere else has this system.
Is there even anywhere that does have this shitty system? Im curious.

>>1368475
Anyways, regardless, it is a shitty system, and back to the main point, it's not in an insurance companies interest to have to pay for $40k wheelchairs, so I doubt they are the ones making it that way.

>>1368476
Maybe it's just a lack of creativity on my part, but I believe there are only two options for enforcing new laws like this - either it's criminal enforcement, (jail time, fines, shut downs, etc) or civil enforcement. (lawsuit, financial judgements)

For example, they could have charged doctors who refused to treat black people with murder if they died while being transported to another hospital where they allowed black people.

That's what they would do today, most likely, if such a situation existed. The alternative is the much less extreme option: financial penalty.

Apply this to the abortion situation today - rather than actually charging abortion doctors with murder, they are taking the financial penalty route. (not in every jurisdiction, though)

>>1368475
Most states do not allow plaintiffs to keep money, awards can only be paid towards the cost of the attorney.
Of course, California loves jobless ambulance chasers and allows people to personally enrich themselves from this behavior

>>1368479
>Most states do not allow plaintiffs to keep money, awards can only be paid towards the cost of the attorney.
This just isn't true. It may be that the lawyers are ultimately the ones who benefit the most financially, but if the point is to give black people / disabled people access that the law says they're supposed to have, that's really how they benefit.

>>1368480
>This just isn't true.
You are wrong.
https://www.kqed.org/news/11942959/hes-filed-over-2000-disability-lawsuits-in-california-his-latest-may-mean-more-cases-nationwide
>In most other states, any awards won in federal disability rights cases can only be used to pay legal fees.

>California law allows for extra compensation that can benefit plaintiffs in those cases. The Unruh Civil Rights Act provides an additional award to plaintiffs themselves, which begins at a minimum of $4,000.

>And that’s a major reason why California has had more than 30,000 federal disability rights lawsuits in the last decade, far outpacing the rest of the country.

>>1368422
>denied medically prescribed biopsy by UHC
>pushing for very basic surface level (cheaper) diagnostics
>given the usual run around when I contested the denial
>with help of parents, paid for it out of pocket
>results come back: Malignant
>surgeon said I'd have lost half my jaw within a few weeks had they not detected it then
>all to save 650 bucks

I hate them. I hate them so much.

>>1368125
natural selection just like his death is a natural cause of nature

>>1368125
health insurance is not insurance, it's just socialism

>>1368337
>>1368422
>>1368496
The problem is people think they deserve free health care. You don't. No one does.
Nothing is free. If you don't like the food at one place, you go to another. We don't attack a restaurant because we don't like their food, drinks, dirty bathrooms.
Get a job and WORK for your Healthcare. Nothing should EVER be free. Nothing should. Food and water and electricity are not free after alll. Find a place for your Healthcare or go somewhere else. It shouldn't be free. Ever. Some hospitals are horrible. You find out and go elsewhere. We don't attack our doctor tho. Or nurse. If they damage you, you go to court and work out out. You don't hunt them down like am animal.

healthcare will never be a human right

>>1368719
>>1368564
spot the american

>>1368496
You have my deepest sympathies. The for-profit health insurance industry should be destroyed, and the USA should go to single-payer medicine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1lRLero_N0

>>1368337
heartwarming story about 2-year old's family being turned down by insurance company!

https://www.reddit.com/r/HolUp/comments/1gd9hco/heartwarming_indeed/

>>1368337
heartwarming story about 2-year old's family being turned down is not a feel-good story, it is a dystopian nightmare.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TIHI/comments/11f728z/thanks_i_hate_feel_good_stories/

>>1368373
>Government shouldn't be able to step between my doctor and me

Profit-driven money and greed-heads ARE permitted to step in between your doctor and you right now and that is why people are enraged at the for-profit health insurance companies.

>>1368715
>The problem is people think they deserve free health care. You don't. No one does.
Wrong! The guy who was denied medically prescribed biopsy by UHC wasn't asking for free health care, he had paid his premiums and wanted what he had already paid for. If it were up to UHC, half his jaw would have been removed, reducing his quality of life and likely costing UHC much more $$$ in the long run.
>>1368496
It is people who paid their premiums and are being denied health care that are pissed off.