Why don't they have true stock car racing where you are only allowed to race cars you can buy off a dealer's lot? It'd be so much more interesting than the clown-car show that is NASCAR.
We already have something like that. its called GT4. no one wants to watch a bunch of FWD V6 shitboxes """race""". Nascars are actually interesting engineering-wise. and when unrestricted, can be really fast even around technical road courses. pic related, a modified nascar making an unrestricted 800 HP is typically the 3rd or 2nd fastest vehicle overall at pikes peak hill climb.You could also ask why Japan's Super GT doesn't use cars you can buy off the dealer's lot, or Germany's DTM. they'd all be shittier and less interesting engineering-wise if they did. some manufacturers would inherently be at a disadvantage because they had to design a car for maximum fuel efficiency and comfort over performance. it would actually be a lot less interesting and all you'd see is one manufacturer who makes even one moderately performance oriented sedan destroying the whole field until it becomes a one-make race anyway, in which case you might as well just have the current nascar. this is actually what happened to super GT. nissan had the GTR and every other japanese manufacturer couldn't compete with that because manufacturers like Honda primarily make fuel efficient consumer vehicles that aren't geared towards performance, putting them at an inherent disadvantage. it essentially became a one-make race for nissan and would've died without current super GT rules allowing honda and toyota to make specialized vehicles outside of the characteristics of their road-going cars.You don't want to see a FWD Ford Taurus/Impala all get endlessly curb stomped by the only RWD american sedan the charger.
There's literally several of those around the world.From GT4's to literal shitboxes.
>>27586160>Nascars are actually interesting engineering-wise.Not really, they're they same one-make space frame with a crate V8 they've been for decades.
>>27586190So is the ones like Super GT, a literal prototype chassis with the same 4cyl turbo for everyone else.
>>27586190and that's less interesting to you than racing FWD V6 shitboxes?
>>27586148https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_MX-5_CupAlso SRO GT4 is a class of grand tourer racing cars maintained by the SRO Motorsports Group that race in various Auto racing series across the globe. It is an entry-level class aimed at amateur drivers. GT4 cars are production-based vehicles with a few modifications for racing.
>>27586148https://youtu.be/VQBnM3aFnfc?si=CM37E5Dmhi4xuuLQClosest we got is improved production challenge. Going to smaller racing events is normally more fun because you get to see more interesting vehicles.
>>27586148NASCAR used to be like stock until 70-80.
>>27586285at least until the late 70s i think. whenever they stopped requiring homologation like most other series' is when they stopped being stock.
Because there's very little room for jews to make money off of it>>27586174Proof? Post links right now.
>>27586204Yes, unironically. Nascar is a fucking snoozefest
>>27587185https://youtu.be/c8oB3k3WoWc&t=62
>>27586160>Nascars are actually interesting engineering-wise.nobody tell him about nascar's ratings decline lol
>>27587211nobody tell him nascar is more watched than everything beside's F1 itself. which would mean according to you, its actually the 2nd most interesting sport engineering-wise, retard.
>>27587189still better than F1.
>>27586148A factory muscle car with all the track packs in the world would still last an hour if that under race conditions.
>>27586160>paved pikes peak
>>27587243Ditch the gayass playoffs and I'll watch your sport
>>27587243F1 is boring racing man. I dont know how people watch that.
>>27587197Racing to the payday loan place before it closes.
>>275876922021 was fun. I stopped watching midway through 2022 after picking it up in 2018 and havent watched it again since. not just because the racing is bad, but the politics and asskissing is just so cringe
>>27587692i think most people watch popular thing without thinking too much about it
>>27586148>race cars you can buy off a dealer's lot? It'd be so much more interestingactually that wouldn't be interesting at allat least with real motorsports there is some semblance of balance between competitorswhile your idea of "interesting" is just watching the person with the most money win>>27586174>>27586207>>27587197he means actual stock stock, not even race-prepped
>>27588077no sanctioning body is going to let you drive around in a car without a cage or harness bar, fire suppression, identifying number, etc.
>>27586285>>27587182Mid 80s is when they went from using a production body tub to a full tube chassis
>>27586160i'd love to watch a bunch of normies race their shitboxes it'd be a demo derby
>>27588077>he means actual stock stock, not even race-preppedSo you just want street racing but on a track. ok. nobody wants to watch that
>>27588398then just watch the 24 hours of lemons.
>>27588398Check out spectator drags. You get a handful of race prepped cars and the rest are just whatever someone drove there. RIP Rockford Speedway
Improved Production is kinda that. Basically street cars with just enough equipment to make them safe and fast. https://youtu.be/lSZ2GcilS0E?si=W-pc2YE0Rd7SRLLy
>>27589419wish we had more motorsport in america like this
>>27589419>>27586232Improved Production is great. Touring Car Masters too, for a similar eclectic mix of cars but a few years older, Mustangs and Porsches and Monaros all together on the field, plus the Group N stuff it descended from (older and more period-correct modifications). Both series are dangerously close to death these days though IIRC, which is a fucking shame. Poor Aussies can't keep anything nice.
They doIt's not>>27587182https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generation_2_(NASCAR)https://www.cottonowens.com/scrapbook/construction_guidelines.phpOnce unibodies became common they gave up and allowed mixing and heavily modifying body and chassis parts, generally based on a '65 Galaxie chassis originally. By the 70s they were using fabricated replacements.>>27589419That is definitely not what Australian Improved Production is, are you fucking blind
>>27586148In my 20s I raced UCAR on my local banked oval dirt track, FWD 4 cyl shitboxes. Civics, Integras, Cavaliers, Escorts, Cobalts, Sentras, etc. It was fun and somewhat economical FWIW.
You mean SCCA showroom stock racing?
>>27587238??????????????What? More people watch fucking soccer finals than NASCAR finals. NASCAR ratings max out at like 2-3 million. Football gets 100x that. Basketball and Baseball get 50x that. Nobody gives a shit about NASCAR.
>>27589650i wasn't aware that soccer was a motorsport, you retarded nigger.
>>27589657>"nooooooooo!! people love nascar it's so popular! it's the most popular thing among stuff that nobody watches!!"There is no widespread interest in NASCAR. Nobody watches it. Cope, seethe, die in a car crash.
>>27589661stay retarded and unable to follow a conversation while you're at it.
>>27589663Call me when the average amount of people that tune in to watch kit cars drive in a circle eclipses the population of a mid-tier American city LMAO, in the meantime I'll be on the phone with your mother.
>>27589666Call me when you obtain an IQ above 90, satan.
>>27589669Damn didn't realize my IQ is the same number as the amount of people watching NASCRAP KEK
>>27586148>Amerimutts can't watch a sport without every surface being plastered with ads
>>27588398Basically what we have in Finland. The catch is that you have to sell your car after the race if someone wants to buy it. That way it restricts people to not spend too much money on their cars.
>>27587182>>27588353Petty's 1971 Plymouth is typically considered the last 'production body' stock car to win in NASCAR. There isn't one single switchover year, it was a gradual increase in custom fabrication starting in about 1965 when NASCAR began to allow teams to modify the front frame rails. I guess you could argue 1988 was when they gave up the last pretense of being stock cars when they decided to allow GM to run the FWD Lumina and its Pontiac/Buick/Olds siblings. They continued to use production hoods, trunk lids, and rooflines until the CoT in 2008. >>27588077Funny because "team with most money always wins" is what motorsports has evolved into as the cars have become more distantly related to road cars.
>>27592249Pretty sure the '01 Dodge was the first Cup car to use zero production sheet metal because it was built to fit the same templates as the Taurus, sure as fuck none in the common template Monte Carlo from '03 (just look at it beside the '02 race car when the road car is identical), and the '04 Dodge didn't even put a model of production car on it.Zoomers are neurotic and can't imagine advantages coming from anything but race, gender, or economic class and will treat any evidence of the most expensive car not always winning when the rules weren't overly restrictive like questioning the existence of a religious deity.
>>27592454The 2001-2004 Dodges were based on the IntrepidI remember Ford making a big deal over how the round rear window in the Taurus improved their aerodynamics, and Chevy had to homologate a special spoiler to offset the weird aero coming off the trunklid of the Monte. I specified the hood and trunklid for a reason, everything outside of them were completely open (resulting in the asymmetric neo-aero warriors of the mid 00s). They didn't have to have those pieces of sheet metal in the exact same place as the road cars, just had to have them. So they'd warp them around and reposition them. That went away with the CoT when all the cars used the exact same bodies just with different stickers.
>>27592454>zoomers out of nowhere>random politics bullshitholy mindbroken obsessed millenial
>>27592647They were badged as Intrepids, and the road Intrepid is a similar egg car to the Taurus to begin with so it's kind of hard to tell anyways, but it was built on Taurus templates and I don't think they're so similar any Intrepid sheet metal would happen to fit those.https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2002-mar-24-sp-dognascar24-story.htmlIf the Monte Carlos were still using stock decklids in 2003 they would still have the wavy spoiler to match the wavy deck lid and not exactly the same spoiler as the other 3 cars.Actually that said the '98 Taurus is really fucking obviously not using the deck lid off a '98 Taurus road car, so I think by the 90s they were already doing what they did up to Gen 6 where they bought specified parts from the manufacturer but they didn't actually come off a road car and just had to be close enough to get NASCAR to approve them. Same as the engines no longer being in road cars by then but being OEM blocks and heads still (particularly the SB2 head never was on any GM production car). Until you get to the actual common template which was supposed to solve all brand fairness problems and had been debated for like 5 years by the time it came into effect, NASCAR seemed to avoid publicizing anything that would sever the remaining link to production cars and would just do it quietly in the background.
>>27586160This could be fixed by simply forcing constructors to sell x amount of cars to the public.
>>27587243At least F1 doesn't call out debris on the track only to get the pack back together, even though nobody knows where that supposed debris is. NASCAR is to racing as what WWE is to fighting.
>>27592822There hasn't been an invisible debris caution in years since they put scheduled yellows in.
>>27592822Nah they just red flag the race entirely because it's too wet for inters (what are full wet tyres?)
>>27592822>NASCAR is to racing as what WWE is to fighting.This is the greatest way of summarizing it that I've ever heard. Anyone who thinks that this isn't true has to justify the existence of the "playoffs" format and they fucking can't. The entire series is just a ratings play.
>>27592826>There hasn't been an invisible debris caution in yearsDamn, that's crazy. I would have known that if I hadn't stopped watching then. The whole thing is still boring, fixed, corrupt trash.
>>27586160i do want to see fwd shitboxes get stomped by the charger because it might give a slight incentive for American manufacturers to make interesting cars lol
>>27592873That's all pro sports. NASCAR is just the worst at hiding it (the actual WWE used to claim it was real wresting until they got busted fixing matches in the 1930s, so they decided to just run with it)
>>27592949we already have camaros that handle better than miatas. what more interesting do you want?
>>27592817that's just going to make them drop out of the sport entirely because its not worth the money to try and sell a bunch of overpriced homologation vehicles that no one will buy.
