You will no longer able to use the "WAAA BUT THEY'RE TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!" excuse for not driving one. The initial round of dinosaur car bans will be successful and spread to other states. How does it feel to always be wrong, /o/?https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/22/tesla-shares-slide-li-auto-sinks-as-ev-makers-slash-prices.html
>>27598914>You will no longer able to use the "WAAA BUT THEY'RE TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!" excuse for not driving one.I never used that excuse. I'm not driving faggot shit because despite being a literal homosexual, I'm still a man.
Ugly, slow, gay
>>27598914I can get a Kia Rio for $20k (which has a greater range than any EV on the market). Where are the $20k EV's?
>>27598914I mean let's be honest, a new M3 tesla is under 30k. Its the best budget performance luxury car on the market by far.That said, believe it or not, some people are so poor that they can't even afford a 30k Enthusiast Vehicle, and they can't afford our little hobby.
>EVs depreciate faster than luxury cars>you should totally buy one
>>27598927>performance>luxuryPick one.
>haha now you can't use 1 out of 33 other excuses>you're so pwned now huh chud?I'll never buy a tesla on a philosophical level. The other EVs are half flushed out cash grabs using components from FEOCs.
>>27598927>the new tesla is UNDER 30K NOW*when including 6000$ worth of fantasy gas savingsyes I know the pic is for the MY not the M3. they use the same amount for both.
>>27598962Holy shit lol
>>27598926>which has a greater range than any EV on the marketThe Kia Rio is EPA rated at 27mpg (1250Wh/mi) and has a 11.9 gallon (400kWh) fuel tank. That is only 325 miles of EPA rated range. EPA ratings are also usually really optimistic so its doubtful it would actually go that far between needing to fuel up.Even in bad weather the new 150kWh EVs from companies like NIO will do more than that on the highway, and in good weather they'll do 600+ miles real-world. EPA combined on them will probably be something like 700 or 800 miles combined test cycle.A lower-tier brand was going to sell cars with the new NIO batteries for under $40k. Just completely shaming the rest of the industry still offering 60 or 70kWh as the max.>Where are the $20k EV's?There are $10k EVs on sale now.Blame US car dealers that want to make the only new option buying a $70k truck that does 15mpg in the real world for there being no cheap efficient cars. If dealers don't put the order in to the factory to have them on the lot, companies don't offer them in the US.I see more people all the time in the US side-stepping car dealers local monopolies entirely driving side by sides, and golf carts.Its crazy, the Dealer monopolies need to be broken. The US is falling so far behind because of their stranglehold on the market for anything that is a 'car'.
>>27598914but... but... we cant let normies into our luxury niche! how else will we stay special when everyone has an EV?
>>27598989Oh shut the fuck up with the "will" and the "just 2 more years" fucking bullshit.
>>27598980the price doesn't include delivery and freight either which is necessary to buy any new vehicle so I didn't count it. out the door, you're looking at about $37k. Not saying its a terrible deal but that's far from the "SUB 30K ENTHUSIAST EV" that keeps being claimed. the 7500 point of sale rebate only applies to dealers that offer the service and are signed up with IRS Energy Credits Online platform. if you don't have a dealer close by that offers it, then extra cost can be incurred for shipping to your location.
>>27599002>luxury niche >mfw yuropeons driving chinesium mystery machine specials
>>27598962so $34,9490... which is not completely out of line for BMW, Mercedes, audio, Chrysler or a lexus.
>>27599034Okay? Those are luxury vehicles. A Tesla is sure as fuck not a luxury vehicle. You're paying $35k+ for a econobox.
>>27599034comparing a tesla to any of those is pretty funny to me. >>27598989show me a single new $10k ev for sale in the US and I'll shut the fuck up.
>>27599034LOL
>>27599077
>>27598962>with $7500 FTC (qualifications apply)>with "estimated gas savings">>27599034It's $43,000, you're just pretending you don't pay the $7,500 tax rebate (if you qualify for the full $7,500).The problem with tax "rebates" is you by necessity will be forced to pay that back through other price effects and tax increases as time goes on. The tax debt doesn't come from nowhere and just disappear.
Came back to /o/ for the first time in many years, and I get greeted by stupid ass threads like this one. Holy shit. See you guys again in 5 years (if people still use this place)
>>27599041gramps, $35k is econobox territory nowadays. Who the fuck buys luxury for 35k, there's going to be 0 options.
>>27599094Kek That faggot is absolutely obsessed with me still hahahah
>>27600186You can get a 2 year or newer Genesis G70 for less than $35k. It has all the luxury features the Tesla has. Oh and before you bring up reliability...
>>27598914>muh fsd>muh 1000mile batteriesmeanwhile gooks and the rest of the market doesnt give a fuck about fsd and has solid state batteriestesla gonna go the way of the original ev manufactuers because their quality control is shit they got lazy
>>27600204can you elaborate on this graph and why tesla is it's own rowi want to see if you're retarded or not
>>27600204>New EVs are fucking expensive>Here's a USED car I can get for cheap!I can get a Tesla for the fraction of the price if you want to go there. Also Genesis is not luxury gooktard.
>>27598914>The initial round of dinosaur car bans will be successful and spread to other states.TWO MORE WEEKS>>27599094Report the nigger for spam and move on
>>27600439would be a viable strategy if the janitors on this board ever did anything.
You’re an idiot if you buy a model 3 over a used Lexus ES
>>27599094LMAO Busted
>>27598914BEVs have been around longer than ICEVs, chud.
>>27598989lollmaokeksnrnkteeheehuehuejajakeke
>>27598989>EPA mpg ratings are optimistic No, no they aren't, I regularly get 3-5 mpg more than EPA in any and all of my cars
>>27598914>electric car prices dropping>still way more expensive than a normal carLmao
>>27598914Total Boomer Death
>>27598914they're too slow. I want a 6 second EV
I'd rather buy a new hybrid than a new EV. But I'm also not in the market of spending new car money on any car, ICE, hybrid, or EV. No city economy oriented sedan is worth more than 15k to me.
>>27601383what, no way it pulls 9s.
>>27598989>There are $10k EVs on sale now.>They just need $25,000 batteries>they're outdated electronics known to randomly fail like an $8000 central screen>and insurance is much higher than an actual $10,000 shitbox. What fucking moron would buy a clapped out EV for $10k knowing $20-60,000 in repairs are going to be necessary soon?
>>27601398The same idiots who buy a used v8 Audi
>>27601398>>They just need $25,000 batteriesActual battery replacement cost? I was thinking that the unknown date of failure and eventual battery replacement would effectively force you to buy a new vehicle anyhow. Meanwhile you could run an ICE longer and is generally cheap to replace relative to new car market.
>>27601412Sure, but counterpoint: most of those heavily depreciated because achiles heel part failures are well known and well documented. Subaru's for example are known to have horrendous head gasket problems at about 150k miles, and a 200k mile car should just have it done even if it still runs and drives. But a couple weekends in the garage anyone with some basic tools can fix it. NOBODY can repair a battery pack on their own. You cannot "rebuild" an electric motor. A central touchscreen infotainment system is non-repairable. Thats the difference between depreciated ICE vehicles; you can save thousands or more just doing the work yourself. You simply cannot do any work on an EV.
>>27601416Yeah, depends how new or how popular the EV itself is. Toyota Prius battery from Toyota is $6000 installed. An aftermarket battery is about $4000. And a specialized mechanic in taking them apart can usually fix them for $1500-2500 rebuilding the bad cells only. Tesla's are famously totaled out by insurance when there is any battery pack damage because a new one from Tesla (only place to get one) is like $21,000 for the 'part' alone. I think there was a hyundai or something that wanted $60,000 for full replacement as backed up by 2 separate dealership quotes for 2 different people. I think a few other EV makers have list prices for replacement battery packs for insurance, repairs, etc and they're all like 50% the total sale price of the car. Its the specific reason why EVs depreciate like crazy. A 10 year old 100k mile ICE car can probably go another 100k miles if you do general maintenance to it. A 10 year old 100k mile EV is probably 20-50k miles before the battery won't let the car move again. Theres your value analysis as to why used EVs are so cheap and nobody wants them.
>>27601441I'll also add, back in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and arguably 90s when a car got to 100k miles, it was generally considered scrap because (US vehicles predominantly) just could not go past 100k miles without rebuilding/replacing an engine, transmission, and interior being well-worn out. You'd have to put as much into a used car to make it last (or continue driving) as it cost to just buy a new one. THAT is why boomers will celebrate the sale of their shitbox with titles like >26,000 ORIGINAL miles>survivor!>well patina'd>barn find!The only chance you had at those vehicles lasting were to baby them like a fabrige egg or park them in a barn for 50 years. Today we have women driving and not changing the oil for 60,000 miles and that car will still get them around. People refusing to wash their car and the clear coat still exists. Or minivans with 4 kids at 200k miles and the cloth on the seats isn't ripped away.
>>27601441>>27601459Thanks for the run down, and good retrospective on where ICE durability is at relative to older decades. Definitely solidifies it's cheaper to maintain the modern ICE.
>>27598914If they were so great, they would be holding value.
>>27601482Kinda always has been; usually its stupid people thinking they dont' want to spend $3000 replacing a transmission on their $3000 shitbox because "the car isn't worth that much" so they'd rather go spend $30,000 on a new vehicle instead of repairing the old one. Its the unexpected shit that makes normies spend stupidly: yeah a $3000 repair on a $3000 car almost doesn't make sense because what if next month theres another $3000 repair necessary? Nobody wants that gut-punch twice in a row, so they generally opt for spending MUCH more and buying another used car or a brand new car. Somehow $750 per month in perpetuity is more palatable than possibly $5000 in 1 year, with the possibility of it happening next year too.
>>27601496There's a little more to it than that. It's just not smart or economical to drop a new tranny into a rusted to fuck high mileage $3k shitbox. If that shit gets totaled the next day they're going to give you $3k for it and not $6k. It also depends on you and your employer. Depending on you and your position the "I can't make it into work again because my shitbox broke down again" will only work so many times before they replace you with somebody who can make it into work reliabily.
>>27598914>Too expensiveThat ‘s not the problem for me. The infrastructure is shit, they look gay, they sound gay, and they ARE gay. I’m not buying your glorified Maytag appliance stuffed full of old Galaxy tablets masquerading as a car. I’ll roll with my nice old ICE cars until the sun burns out and you will never ever change that.Take your trannymobiles to /n/.
>>27601588>The infrastructure is shitWhat infrastructure specifically is shit? Random public chargers because you don't have a house or garage to charge at home? >they sound gayThey don't make much sound at all, what are you talking about?>I’m not buying your glorified Maytag applianceBut you'll happily buy a disposable ICE shitbox (cuv) ?>I’ll roll with my nice old ICE cars untilJust say you have no desire to spend new car money on a new car. Stop pretending your 1997 Honda is good. Its a shitbox.
>>27598914i'd buty white/black Taycan Cross tourismo 4S if i made like 4 million a yaer
>>27601588Based gaydar skellington anon
>>27601428This. But we all know the globohomo jews don’t want the goy cattle to be able to be self-reliant.
>>27601616and if i had 380v or 800v at home/work
>>27601412manual R8 V8 circa 2007-2010 is a modern/future classicwish i had a spare $35k to buy one!
>>27601607>What infrastructure specifically is shit? Random public chargers because you don't have a house or garage to charge at home?I have a home. I’m home right now, actually. 4 acres, nerd. >They don't make much sound at all, what are you talking aboutExactly. Nasty homo little appliances that need a little speaker to play something to be allowed on the roads with real cars>Just say you have no desire to spend new car money on a new car. Stop pretending your 1997 Honda is good. Its a shitboxI bought my ‘17 Wrangler new as my comfy winter whip so my fresh and clean low-milage ‘92 Jimny stays nice. Oh, and I have my Buell if I want for summer use too. Money isn’t an issue, new cars are just soulless and gay. Eventually I’ll upgrade to…maybe a C4 or C5 and something different for winter use. Maybe a TJ…or an XJ if my fiancé finally gives in and lets me knock her up lmao. You assume too much, fucking limp-dick EV faggot peasant.
>>27601688>I have a home. I’m home right now, actually. 4 acres, nerd.So whats the problem with "infrastructure" then? You can charge an EV in your own home on 4 nerdy acres whenever you want AND at a price about 1/10th of what public chargers would cost. You can't just cite "infrastructure" as a problem without elaborating. >Nasty homo little appliances that need a little speaker to play something to be allowed on the roads with real carsThose are just a "fun feature" automakers tried to appease morons who think silent vehicles were assassin's vehicles for being able to run over someone silently without them noticing. Exterior noise makers aren't legally mandated. >I own an 8 year old jeep, a 32 year old shitbox, and a decades old motorcycle, so I have money! I have so much money in fact, I'm going to buy the lease desired corvette maybe!Buddy, if you don't like something thats fine. But your humblebrag is kinda sad.
>>27601715this is an AI post.
>>27601715>So whats the problem with "infrastructure" then?Until every gas station is converted to an EV station, with batteries and chargers that fill one from 0-full in sub-5min you will never be able to match delicious ICE. Especially here, there’s a nice rural station 5min away, with cheaper gas than the cityniggers pay, and a liquor store attached. >Those are just a "fun feature"If it doesn’t have the enjoyable sound of a gas or diesel, it’s a trannymobile. >I ownThe last decent Jeep, a nice imported JDM box, a fresh and unique bike, and I’m shooting for BEST Vette. And I’m not even 35. So yeah, I’ll take my brag, /n/igger. Take your globohomo peasant boxes elsewhere.
>>27598921Based, I think
>>27601734Rural places are the best for EVs because everyone can charge them on their own property whereas gas stations are few and far between and require multiple minute trips for many people. One person said since switching to an EV, charging has become way more convenient than driving to the closest gas station 20 minutes away. Suck it .
>>27601779LOL
>>27601781>"Boy, I sure do love driving my farm vehicle 20 minutes away to fill it with gas instead of keeping it on my property indefinitely">Idiots will try to rationalize this
>>27598914Tesla earnings call in 2 hours and I forgot to buy popcorn :(
>>27601779>Some Anon SAIDI don’t care. EVs are literal trannymobiles and I’ll run ICE until the sun explodes. Deal with it, /n/igger.
>>27601779Rural electricity is generally extremely unreliable to the point of backup generators being almost mandatory. If you live on a rural property you could just have a bulk fuel truck come and top up your on property fuel supply.
>>27601734I'm convinced this is the NPC's argument: you want EVs to "refuel" just like ICE cars somehow hoping physics will be negated because you want them to be like that. >Especially here, there’s a nice rural station 5min away, with cheaper gas than the cityniggers pay, and a liquor store attached.Again, to pay at a public charger you end up paying between $0.80 and $1.50 per kilowatt hour versus AT HOME something between $0.08 and $0.40 per kw/h. The analogy is having a $2000 gas pump in your garage that lets you fill up your cars for $1 per gallon, yet you still go down to the kwik-e-mart to pay $8 per gallon because muh infrastructure. >If it doesn’t have the enjoyable sound of a gas or diesel, it’s a trannymobile.Some do make fake V8 sounds. you're being weird. >The last decent Jeep, a nice imported JDM box, a fresh and unique bike, and I’m shooting for BEST VetteLast decent jeep? With an ECU and plastic everywhere? lol. box :| box (japanese) :OBuells are about as fresh JNCO jeans. an oddity sure, but buells aren't highly sought after. And no, those aren't be best corevettes even amongst boomer corvette enthusiasts.
>>27601868>>27601734>>27601715>>27601688>>27601607>>27601588>chatbot arguing with itself
>>27601822>Gets checkmated>"I-I don't care!"Holy shit lol
>>27601886EVs are seasonal cars. Winter is very hard on these toys. They consume whatever gains they claim to make in winter. It's just a huge scam.
>>27601892>Source: Fox News
>>27598914All car prices are dropping you fucking retard
>>27601896Not an argument
>>27601833Sounds expensive. Why not have both a generator and an EV so you can vastly cut down on your bills?
>>27601880>>27601721>have nothing to contribute>call people AI'sDoes your wrangler know you're on the internet?
>>27601902Neither is claiming that EVs are bad in the cold without actual experience to back it up. It's all conjecture. If you aren't basing your arguments on your own findings, you don't really know to what extent an EVs cold performance would suffer for your own use case.
>>27601916what's a wrangler, you mean handler? were you trained on an ESL language model?
>>27601926
>>27601926It is driver experience from owners not conjecture. There's a reason nobody buys them and they are dropping in price. The scam has been exposed. Tesla is riding on borrowed time. The US government won't be able to shield Elon and it's scam company much longer.
>>27601868>You wantI want EVs to not suck massive dick and be as or more convenient than filling up with gas and also not be gay fucking rolling iPads like ICE cars have become too. >Muh home chargerNext you’ll tell me to fly a Pride flag.>You’re being weeeeirdAnd you’re shilling trash>Proceeds to vomit his bad taste in carsI don’t care, /n/igger. >>27601880>Calling me an AIHow dare you, that’s like one step above calling someone brown or a Redditor. >>27601886>Gets “checkmated”Keep dreaming, lmao. I have the comfy ICE cars I like and a home and land. I’ve already won. EV peasantry is beneath me.
>>27601930Wrangler as in tard wrangler, you retard. Have you really never heard that term on this antique can opener maintenance forum?
>>27601939>more convenient than filling up with gas and also not be gay fucking rolling iPads like ICE cars have become too.Already there, you drive home, park in a garage, and plug it in. >but I don't want to plug in an electronic thing to charge like an ipad!So you're the reason they're making wireless chargers for cars. God forbid you have to plug in something electric. >Next you’ll tell me to fly a Pride flag.No we know your trans flag flies at your abode.What a shame you're trying so hard to be myopic for no reason. Keep bragging about your trailer park life I guess.
>>27601933>>27601934>Other people's experiencesUnless you've personally used an EV and through real world experience you've determined it doesn't fit your use case, you're basing your arguments on fear, uncertainty, and doubt.
>>27601939I look like this and I say this
>>27601952LOL
>>27601958I'm correct and you know it.
>>27601952>you have to buy into the scam to have an opinionLmao. These glownoggers are getting desperate. Look Elon, nobody is going to buy these scam cars anymore. You will have to force people at gunpoint with the force of the US military or else nobody will buy them because they are scams. It only took people using them to figure it out. When are you going to go full China on the US population Elon?
>>27601943you sound like you watch anime lol
>>27601964>I know for sure I won't like owning an EV>But I refuse to try oneIt doesn't take a genius to find the logical inconsistency here.
>>27601965I used to, was just another type of cartoon to watch when I was younger. Have you really never watched Dragon Ball Z? What does that have to do with anything, or are you searching for some other angle of attack after being proven a retard?
>>27601970LOL
>>27601969I am already biased against these scam cars and you want me to buy them for what reason? No, I am not going to fund your 100th Caribbean trip, Boomer.
>>27601951>More conve-I said I want sub-5min charging at mass stations country-wide if you want to beat ICE. Other people don’t have homes like me, and if I want to drive long-distance, I’m not planning a route around some limited spread of charging stations when I can just stop literally anywhere, fill and go in 5min. >Y-you just don’t want to plug it inNo, I just don’t want that tranny globohomo trash on MY property. Nice try. There is still zero reason to switch to EVs besides being an Elon dickrider or smug trophy wife woman with no taste.
>>27601977>I am already biasedAnd now we have arrived at the crux of the matter.
>>27601980>There is still zero reason to switch to EVsI'm sure you know that based on all the experience you've had owning one, right?
>>27601996My biased is based on evidence and research.
>>27601980>I said I want sub-5min charging at mass stationsCurrent battery tech cannot allow for sub-5 minute recharges. Even super capacitors dont' charge that fast. Electrical engineers know there are simply physical and chemical limitations as to how fast a battery can safely charge. You're in that fantasy zone of wanting zero change in your habits despite never needing a 5-minute recharge on an EV. Then you'll claim you drive 600 miles a day round trip for normal commute, or you go visit someone a 30 hour drive away and recharges would simply add too much time. Or you drive far to visit family once a year while fully ignoring the MORE CONVENIENT charging at home overnight for significantly less cost than a public charger. The reason to switch to EVs is because something like 70% of drivers wouldn't use more than 50% of a charge for 90% of the year. Statistics dont' lie. The vast majority of drivers never need a 5-minute fillup. They never need greater than 400 mile ranges. Its just like the statistics that 80% of pickup truck owners never use that pickup truck to do pickup truck things. Why do they have it? Because muh trugg. Why are you resistant to EVs? Because muh fillups.
>>27602004That's not what bias means.
>>27602006A++ postAbsolutely nailed it
>>27602008Yes. I'm biased against and you are biased towards. Your pursuit is money and mine is quality.
>>27602000Close. My father has a Bolt and wants the new electro-Ram. In fact, my garage was wired up to charge it, since I bought the property off him when my parents wanted to downsize to a single-level. I’ve borrowed the Bolt for a few days while they went on a trip to Engerland for an Anniversary trip my sister and I bought them. Gave it a chance. It’s super gay. ICE is superior. The garage is no longer wired for it, to their salt and displeasure.
>>27602006Best post ITT
>>27602006>Wahhh batteries don’t allow for thatOk. So ICE wins. Got it. Thanks for conceding that my choices are correct. >B-b-but statsI don’t care. Get a job.
>>27602034My job is not being a retard, you must be the other guy.
>>27602006>Why are you resistant to EVs? Because muh fillups.Ain't it for me. EVs are just flat out ugly and I desire my vehicle to be an asset I buy once a decade at minimum. Plus I've managed SVLRA batteries, sure it ain't lithium ion, but I know batteries are finicky bitches and I don't like using them for anything beyond back up power.
>>27602017I base my arguments on logic and reason. Simply put, you can't say with 100% certainty *you* wouldn't like to own an EV or that one wouldn't work for *your* use case without first hand experience.
>>27601428No one can fix 10 timing chains in the back of an engine and whatever other horrors. (Obviously some people do this, but its time consuming)But battery packs could theoretically be made easy to repair. Or just semi disposable modules. People have repaired ev battery packs, but it doesn't always make sense
>>27602038>My job is not being a retardYou are very poor at it. Stinky little busrider shill. Off to /n/ with you.
>>27602045you are a gay dick sucking tesla marketing intern and everyone hates you.
>>27602048>Could beMaybe if these trash globohomo companies would make them that way, but they don’t want that. They want rolling iPads with proprietary everything that YOU aren’t allowed to fix. And ICE brands are no better these days.
>>27602048>But battery packs could theoretically be made easy to repair.I love how all the EV fault solutions are "in theory"In theory I could make an ICE engine that lasts a million miles and gets 70 mpg checkmate
>>27601571A) have multiple shitboxesB) rust isnt normally an issue on the west coast unless it was abandoned near the ocean for a long time. Ive bought or checked out many <$1000 shitboxes and only a couple of them had rust
>>27602039>EVs are just flat out uglyI'll agree with you on that. Leave it to corporate morons to make something weird and quirky (ugly) for no reason other than "lets really make it stand out compared to normal cars!". The electric F150 I think came the closest to looking "normal". The funky headlights I think are a general styling choice so I can't even fault them that much since even chebbies look like ass on the front too. Battery tech currently is fucking amazin, but yeah they're just nowhere near where they should be because the average NPC complaining about muh infrastructure and muh charge times don't have enough of a frontal cortex to plan for the future with them in mind. Should I check and charge my phone at night? Nah fuck that, I'll just plug it in wherever I happen to go that day. Can't really have that mindset with an EV, yet people will still run out of gas in their car. Took a day trip yesterday and the ONLY traffic I ran into was because a tesla ran out of charge and the toll road operators had to come by with a generator and give him some juice. Confusingly though, you'd use them as a backup power source for your house? What happens if they just don't work when the power goes out for whatever reason?
>>27602045How would I enjoy a car I hate? I don't need to own it to dislike it. I already dislike not only the car but also the company (Tesla) and the CEO (Elon Musk) and I would dislike them both still even if they force Elon out of Tesla. Tesla and EVs made me dislike Elon not the other way around, let me make that very clear for you. I didn't had anything against Elon until the US government started getting overzealous on their EV shenanigans. I hope that is clear enough because as of late it seems Elon is getting a lot of flak because according to these Boomers the thing wrong with Tesla's declining numbers is Elon and it's not. The problem with Tesla is EVs.
>>27602006Maybe not full recharge, but with true pack capacity now hitting 600 miles of range, brands will be able to software lock to a more reliable 300 miles and start reporting the ability to hit 'full' at 300 miles of range (50% actual capacity) in 5 minutes.The newest sodium ion cells that can safely take or deliver over 30kW per kg, or 9MW for 300kg of cells, really would be able to charge in seconds. It would be an issue for all the other wiring in the car that can't handle that much power.
>>27602048>But battery packs could theoretically be made easy to repair.Sure, just like those engines shouldn't have been made with 10 timing chains on the back. But you cannot legislate or force a company to engineer something to be "easy" to repair. That again supports why ultra luxury vehicles depreciate so fast. They're impossible to work on because they know the buyers of those vehicles never will and also won't own them when parts do start breaking.Take the skateboard design they've all gone to. You'd have to design that entire tray to be user serviceable with 440 or 800 volts still in it, engineer connectors to theoretically never go bad, individual cells or clusters of cells for modularity to connect and keep working, on and on. Like I said before, it is possible to disassemble and repair a prius battery, but nobody does it because who's going to spend $2000 on parts, $500 on special tools, then roll the dice they don't electrocute themselves and it actually fixes the problem. When you start trading off for user-serviceability, you're going to lose capacity and increase the cost of it all making the initial problem compounding.
>>27602067>Confusingly though, you'd use them as a backup power source for your house? What happens if they just don't work when the power goes out for whatever reason?Let me clarify, I was speaking on batteries as a power source generally. Generally battery power is a back up source between lapses in primary sources of power delivery. To extend this statement to vehicles, I would not want battery power to be my primary source of power. I would buy a hybrid before I bought an EV.
>>27602091>The newest sodium ion cellssodium ion is kinda DOA for cars. Its got lower energy density than lithium ion, and they're just not as durable. Not to mention they're horrifically expensive.
>>27602095>But you cannot legislate or force a company to engineer something to be "easy" to repair.You could actually. It wouldn't be that difficult. Just like how in the past upper management at some companies, or military contracts have dictated things like maximum number of man-hours for various tasks, or limited the tools that are needed in order to reduce complexity and costs.Lemon laws in many states already set a sort of minimum standard for this, and stronger Right to Repair laws could strengthen them.
>>27602095I wonder how hard it would be to just use 10 RC airplane battery packs wired in series and get the Prius computer to play with them. I know it would burst into flames eventually, but its something I wonder about.
>>27602064Id work with you to bring this theory to IRL. Gen 1 Honda insight is pretty close to that, but idk if anyone has driven one 1 million miles
>>27602107>Its got lower energy density than lithium ionThe current production cells are similar to LFP which is on its way to becoming the most popular chemistry.These newest cells match NMC for cell density and have higher power density.>and they're just not as durableCompared to LFP, but LFP is ridiculous. Most cars don't need million mile batteries.>Not to mention they're horrifically expensive.Because they're brand new and companies are doing a lot of R&D and production ramp up.The whole point of sodium batteries is once that happens they can sell them for a profit at under $50 a kWh.Or about 1/3 what NMC cells cost. A few companies were saying they would hit $40 a kWh next year when they hit GWh scale.Might not completely kill LFP or NMC which might still have advantages, but lead acid could be gone soon.
>>27602058This is exactly the same thing that happened to gaming. An American company enters the playing field and immediately fucked over the consumer and destroyed the industry beyond repair.
>>27598914I like EVs especially Teslas, but they pretty consistently feel like unfinished products that are not worth the asking price. My dad has 1, my brother has 2. I'm perfectly happy to let them and you be guinea pigs. I'll check back in another 10 years or whatever when the segment has properly matured and there's proper infrastructure and I'll re-evaluate then. For now EVs are toys for early adopters, not tools that can be relied upon.
>>27598914Cool. Wake me up when I can get an EV sedan with 250+ mi range, fast charging, 4wd, sub-5s 0-60 for under 10k.This isn't some kind of "gotcha", that's just what I'm looking for in a car.
>>27602157Sodium batteries also will bring lithium prices down, so those will also be cheaper. Apparently sodium batteries also do better in cold weather compared to most lithium chemistry
>>27602181You cant get that with gas cars either unless you're looking at some very used performance vehicles
>>27602195Can you not read or something? That's why I'm still looking. I wouldn't be looking if I found something already
>>27602186If sodium makes lithium cheaper is because lithium is an old and deprecated technology.
>>27602125>You could actually.You actually cannot. Go ahead, give me a sample writing of legislation that would force manufacturers to make a timing belt easy to repair. >maximum number of man-hours for various tasksYou cannot legislate that. It'd be like legislating people to be nice to each other. >To repair a timing chain on a 2026 Ferd Fteenhunnert, it should take no more than 3 labor hours!K, I'm only billing you for 3 labor hours, but each hour is $2000 because its a difficult job.
>>27602157>Most cars don't need million mile batteries.No car has a million mile battery. Most EVs don't even have a 200,000 mile battery. Compare that to most ICE engines are 200,000 engines. Thats like saying nobody needs a million mile engine. I've heard the sodium ion batteries being celebrated as the newest and best thing (in theory) but in practice they're shit.
>>27598914still gay, pozzed and sovless globohomo straight line machines
>>27602181>I'm looking for something that cannot existSame anon, I'm looking for tires on my race car capable of holding 6000 horsepower without losing traction, have a lateral grip so I can pull 2g's around corners, and last 200,000 miles of daily driving while costing less than $100 each.
>>27602235>I'm looking for something very reasonably possible that will likely become reality in the next 5-10 years"OMG impossible! I'm going to have a temper tantrum now!"Please explain why you're retarded. I would love to hear why you choose to be so cope-addled.
>>27602223>No car has a million mile battery.LFP is good for about 3000 cycles in the automotive portion of its lifespan.80kWh, 4 miles a kWh, 3000 cycles = 960k miles.Ok not quite a million miles but close.Even the older NMC cells are good for 350k miles or more.
>>27602215>I'm only billing you for 3 labor hours, but each hour is $2000 because its a difficult job.See lemon laws. They often protect against this exact kind of predatory pricing.
>>27602239Well I know things like performance aren't cheap, neither is 4wd, and very few things in this world get cheaper, but you're wanting some mythical $10k sports car. My hyperbole pointing out your desires being laughably stupid you interpret as a temper tantrum is also laughable. Keep looking I guess. Let me know when it exists in any form because even ICE cars today couldn't satisfy that set of demands.
>>27602202https://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/cto/d/portland-07-audi-s4-42ltr-v8-quattro/7740096036.htmlHere you go. Fast and cheap
>>27602250Lemon laws surround new car defects and repairs, not ease of repairability and cost of repairability. If you're suggesting legislation could once and for all make things cheap and easy to repair you're high on jenkem.
>>27602181Used Model 3s are starting to turn up under $20k.Maybe not the AWD or Performance cars, but the RWD cars have 250 miles of range and 175kW fast charging.A few may even be the special edition version that had a 4.9 second 0-60.I don't think the AWD is even needed, the MR layout makes RWD really good, and the car is about 400lbs lighter without AWD less than some current internal combustion engine sports sedans.
>>27602264You can get a Taurus SHO for about that much, you can get >>27602267 's audi, although that's gonna need a bonded title, you can get an old GSX/ Talon TSI for well under 10k and spend the rest on getting it to go 0-60 under 5. But if I'm gonna buy a new car anytime soon I'd prefer it to be an electric.I'm sorry you're retarded, but your own temper tantrum is your own problem. Please stop being retarded, and please stop having tantrums.
>>27602268>If you're suggesting legislation could once and for all make things cheap and easy to repair you're high on jenkem.Obviously there is nothing that can be done about old cars, or about every vehicle out there but it would in fact be possible to create repair category certifications that manufacturers could attempt to meet. Companies that could meet those requirements could advertise their cars as compliant. Companies found to have cheated on the certification could have that revoked and have legal action taken against them.Even if this was implemented simply as a requirement for Government purchased vehicles, they are a major source of fleet sales, and there would be an incentive for manufacturers to comply even with vehicles produced for other customers.
>>27602287I was thinking M3 LR once the prices keep going down. I'd look into a RWD but I'd prefer a 4wd just because RWD isn't ideal in the snow (and there's no chance I buy a FWD again)
EV prices are dropping to keep up with the used EV market retard anon. EV's hold no value at all because as soon as people are forced to live with them they hate them
>>27602308>RWD isn't ideal in the snowYou are probably basing that on experience with front-heavy FR layout cars.RWD Model 3 is MR layout. Motor between the rear wheels. Battery in the middle. Get a set of winter tires and it is fine.
>>27602066Did the multi shit box thing it worked.But dude what's your time worth...
>M3but the M3 isn't electric
>>27602006very based
>>27602362My affordable cars were actually pretty good, it was actually more time and effort dealing with a new one than some of my "shitboxes" id rid myself of the problem boxes right away.
>>27602006trucks are based though, no surprise the nigger who seethes about them is an EVtroon
>>27602305>but it would in fact be possible to create repair category certifications that manufacturers could attempt to meet.If you think that, it means you have no idea how the world, cars, or the government works let alone how or why engineers decide to do whacky shit. Legislation rarely soves problems for consumers, and a board strokes "just make it affordable lol" legislation always makes things worse. See: affordable care act. Just make healthcare cheaper and available for everyone lol. 400% healthcare spikes. Thanks, government. Really lookin out for the little people on that one.
>>27602411You're still 5'7" when you get out of the lifted truck.
>>27598914>The initial round of dinosaur car bansAgain, 70% of US electricity is from burning fossil fuels. F=MA so over 2x more energy is required to propel a model 3 than a miata. Then because of the power and weight they need high-friction tires every 10k miles, so they burn even more energy.Get fucked.
>>27602445No you don't understand, $/gal of gas is more expensive than $/kWh spent on charging your EV.
>>27602445You're 'tarded if you don't understand what thermal efficiency is. From a co2 standpoint, even coal->EV is more efficient than a gas car.I get it if you choose not to drive an EV, but at least do it for an actual reason and not because you're retarded
>>27602475shit, what do we do now!
>>27602429>See: affordable care act.Seems like it is working well enough. Mitt Romney's plan adopted by Obama required healthcare providers to actually meet a minimum standard of healthcare and now instead of the old status quo of driving people into the emergency room with even higher costs, the up front cost is a bit higher. Perhaps it hurt some people in states that refused the Medicaid Expansion, but that is on the State Government. Really when has the Republican party, the party of big industry looked out for the little guy? Rejecting medicaid expansion was par for the course even when it was their own Presidential nominee's plan.Still not as good as Medicare for All for you kids, but maybe we will get there.I'm not proposing a 'just make things affordable lol' legislation. Rather a certification, possibly simply for Government purchases that vehicles must meet in order to display a bullet point on the window sticker.Seems easy enough doesn't it? Perhaps the certification could include things like allowed tools, time for certain maintenance tasks, and a measure of expected costs over a period of time.If a Dealer were to attempt to screw a car owner over by quoting absurd costs on a vehicle with that certification, the owner could be given legal recourse that might encourage car makers to take action against crooked dealers.What's the alternative, simply allow major car manufacturers to have no oversight at all?
>>27598914>You will no longer able to use the "WAAA BUT THEY'RE TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!" excuse for not driving one.Their excuse is theyre poorfag losers that live in apartments and cant install chargers.
>>27602506lol
>>27602445>they need high-friction tires every 10k miles,Holy shit you are pathetic lmao.
>>27602507It's the left one and it applies to you. You're low income trash because you're not smart enough to figure out how to get dollar sin your bank account.
>>27602482>well I found a headline about 1 study that suggests that I'm right, so there!This is some antivaxxer-type retardation
>>27602510aw having a bad day at the tesla shill cube farm? lmao
>>27602445>Again, 70% of US electricity is from burning fossil fuels.60% of total capacity, and only 40% of base load. Most of the total capacity is from methane, which at least when used locally and fugitive emissions are prevented has less environmental impact than coal.A lot of places in the country already get most of their peak from solar and wind, and most of their base load from nuclear or hydro-electric. For EVs that often come on to charge for only an hour a day, it isn't that difficult to manage which source a car is charging from. Much like how fast-charger infrastructure utilizes storage batteries to buy cheap green energy.Also keep in mind significant electricity goes into the extraction, refining, and distribution of gasoline. Whatever environmental impact you think putting 6kWh into a lightweight 5 mile a kWh EV has for 30 miles of driving, a Miata would have that 6kWh plus its emissions from burning gasoline, and some lightweight EVs can do 7 miles a kWh of more.No Miatas to Hummer EVs here. We have to compare Apples to Apples.>>27602482Made to look official, but reads like sensationalist nonsense.EVs don't have to be heavy. If you object to heavy vehicles that eat tires, regulate heavy vehicles and give people an incentive to drive lightweight cars again.
>>27602505>Seems like it is working well enough.Yeah, made healthcare less affordable for everyone. Working great. Men also pay for natal care and women's contraceptives. Look, its been a horrific disaster and the only people praising it are those who never needed it (ultra wealthy and politicians) and those who never had healthcare (socio-economic americans). The other 98% of the country is getting fucked.
>>27602520lol
>>27602529>Men also pay for natal care and women's contraceptives.No different than private insurance.>The other 98% of the country is getting fucked.Medicare for All is right there. It is actually the most fiscally responsible solution.
>>27602434I am 6'4 and you will never be a woman kek
>>27602540Note that is 'energy consumption' and not 'electrical production'.Petroleum is a major source of the energy we consume, but not for electrical production.The 2023 figures saw coal decline further, and EVs have actually started to take a bite out of demand for gasoline.
>>27602542Go ahead and take your socialist ideas back to /lgbt/
>>27602520Renewable power is just coal/oil power with more steps. Semiconductor factories converted to make solar wafers, giant epoxy/carbon fiber blades and rare earth magnets for windmills all moved around and maintained by diesel powered heavy equipment and bunker fueled boats. And once you have wind/solar you need moar metals to be mined for wires and batteries
>>27602565EVs are less than 1% of registered cars in the US. i don't know if i'd call that a bite, maybe a nibble lol
>>27602582EVs make more sense the more you drive, so they may be only 1% of registered vehicles, but they represent more miles driven.Of the cars I have active registrations on, my EV does the most miles a year.
>>27602585lmao at this cope
>>275989141 in 3 EV buyers have already sold off or traded their EVs for ICEs
>>27602573Spend a few kWh making a 400 watt solar panel.The solar panel then goes on to generate GWhs or more over its life.Spend a few MWh making a wind turbine.The Turbine then generates TWhs over its life.Seems like a decent trade off to me.Also I think you are forgetting about Nuclear Reactors and hydro-electric.Geothermal is also starting to be a more widespread thing now too.The grid is getting greener, EVs make more sense than ever.
>>27602601Nuclear reactors require millions of tons of concrete and specialized equipment which is mostly trucked in, the waste has to be trucked to long term storage sites eventually. Also you need diesel back up generators, also they are mostly located in earthquake prone areas near the ocean, and if they melt down, then a million trucks and laborers have to use tons of resources and Sacrifice their health to mitigate the disaster.
>>27602627>the waste has to be trucked to long term storage sites eventuallyOh no, the waste is contained and manageble!Also we could just reprocess it and keep using it.>Also you need diesel back up generatorsNot anymore. Modern designs fail safely. Co-locating with solar and pumped hydro is a simpler solution.>Sacrifice their health to mitigate the disaster.As opposed to fossil fuels which require sacrificing your health even when it is working like it is supposed to.
>>27602482Better get rid of my dodge ram 2500 v10 that runs rich and leaks every fluid and upgrade to the more polluting E-shitbox.
>>27598914This will destroy the legacy automakers still trying to gain EV market share. Ford’s lighting is selling like shit and Chevy and Ram are afraid to release theirs.
>>27602585>EV's are the degenerate 1% commie cars that are gonna milk their own problems until it's a psychosis that the population will buy believing their the victim cars that deserve to be bought.Just like real people amirite? We subsidize those too.>Of the cars I have active registrations on,Do you even own a fucking car you shill? Or do you rent them for your uber eats gig?>>27598914>You will no longer able to use the "WAAA BUT THEY'RE TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!" You drive a "battery car" they call "electric" because it sounds cool to zoomers. They call the company "Tesla" despite the actual Tesla shitting on battery cars.
>>27602817lol
>>27602857Legacy makers are discounting the shit out of theirs. What’s your point?
>>27598914>"WAAA BUT THEY'RE TOO EXPENSIVE!!!!"That was never the argument, funny enough, they're getting cheaper precisely because of other actual arguments that exist, like Li-Ion batteries being horrendous in outside environments, having your range reduced by 50 miles when you turn the hear or AC on etc.
Yes. Now you'll need to find an excuse as to why people still don't want to buy them besides early adopters.Well?>>27598989Some ugly nissan leaf? Wow, who can pass that up.
>>27602817they basically fucking left and are scrambling to restart their hybrid wings ever since Toyota basically won another decade
>>27598989>EPA ratings are also usually really optimistic so its doubtful it would actually go that far between needing to fuel up.I don't actually disagree with a lot of your post, but this is idiotic. I beat EPA all the time. If anything, the EPA MPG is generally aimed at the median driver, and therefore is pretty trivial to beat.
>>27598936No you don't understand my luxury car NEEDS to be fast and sporty with bench seats, i-it's just as cool as chad's McLaren I swear it
>>27598927>Under 30kNo, it's not. And it's anything but an enthusiast vehicle. LARPing and pretending otherwise won't make it so.
>>27602830What is this, a manifesto for fishmen?
SEETHE PETROLHEAD. YOU'RE GETTING PHASED OUThttps://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-earnings-q1-175358835.html
>>27598927>luxuryHave you seen that interior? It's like it was designed to shame you for being too poor for an S, it oozes disdain for the driver and occupants.
>>27603014>That was never the argument, funny enoughYes it was you stupid faggot. I'll go pull screenshots.
>>27598989Meds
>>27604219>Investors: Boohoo we lost millions of dollars. Daddy Elon please tell us you're going to fix this?>Elon: Yes, of course. Tesla will manufacture 1 billion flying cars next year and they're fitted with solar panels! You'll never have to charge your car again.>Investors: YAY!!!
>>27598962All ev purchases should impose a $7500 "infrastructure tax" to be used for improving the grid. On average, an ev uses about half as much juice every year as a whole fucking house.
>>27604341
>>27601939I'm not an EV shill, but if you're not driving more than ~200 miles a day, the convenience of charging at home far outweighs having to stop for gas every few days. Not fully thought out.>Keep dreaming, lmao. I have the comfy ICE cars I like and a home and land. I’ve already won. EV peasantry is beneath me.You're entitled to like what you like, but demeaning people with different interests/benefit analyses is stupid.
>>27604341>living in a shithole with an electrical grid that's in shamblesYour problem not mine, poverty boy
>>27604405it's funny how your type instantly becomes the thing they hate once they are backed into a wall
>>27604418>my typeWhat's my type, "not retarded"? "Not a 3rd world poorass"?
>>27604431Heh, yeah there it is. You'll preach all this green hippie bullshit, but the second somebody calls out how your plan isn't that perfect, you reveal your true colors as a cold-hearted cunt
>>27604436What are you even on about?What's with this touchy-feely sob story?Why are you typing like a Reddit user?Please figure out why you are retarded and get back to me.
>>27604436always good to expose these leftist psychos for who they are. sunlight is the best disinfectant.
>>27604487Does sunlight also fix retardation? Why don't you go test it out by getting out of your mom's basement and seeing the sun for the first time in your life?
>>27604474I could ask you the same thing faggot, least I don't put on some lefty act lmao
>>27604490to be clear, the reason you're angry is because someone doesn't like what you like (EVs), is that right?
>>27604474>Why are you typing like a Reddit user?Like you're doing now?
>>27604498Again, what are you on about? All I did was make fun of retards and now you're having a temper tantrum like the 5-year-old you are. It's giving me secondhand embarrassment just seeing how absopositively retarded you are, it must be so frustrating for the people around you seeing you every day
>>27604505Slow down, use your big boy words
>>27604500What? The reason I'm angry is that this anon is retarded and it's giving me secondhand embarassment. I don't care about EVS either way, I just think that retards who live in shitholes deserve to keep to their own kind and never interact with humans.
>>27604511The backpedaling is insane
>>27604511lol sure thing champ.
>>27604513What backpedaling? Retards don't deserve to interact with humans. This has always been my belief and always will be. What part of this is hard for you to understand?
>>27604516I genuinely do not understand why you are having a temper tantrum. I wasn't trolling. I wasn't posting an unpopular opinion. I wasn't even posting any opinion.All I did is state the fact that it's retarded that retards think that every place is as shitty as their tard habitat, and now multiple tards are having full scale meltdowns.
>>27604533keep projecting your temper tantrum onto me lol
>>27604533I think the only one having a meltdown here is the guy crying about boogymen retards
>>27604547>implying retards don't existThat would be a perfect world, but unfortunately there are still retards in the real world. Can't wait for them to get their own Darwin Awards.
>>27604545I think it's time to consider medical help for your acute retardation.https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/health-services-benefits/medical-assistance-dying.html
