So I got an old Opel Astra G 1.6 cc T98 2001 with a Z16SE motor (130k km) which is prone to shut off once it is run warm when shifting I think and then I can't start it again (makes the usual starting noises) until it has cooled down. The temperature of the cooling liquid is around 80C-90C when the problem starts to happen. ODB2 doesn't store any errors and only once I caught a crackshaft sensor error when it shut off so it's suspect.I've been reading for weeks about how this engine works and the possible causes are fucking endless. I've already ordered some replacement parts and did some things but they haven't arrived yet.Ordered:>spark plugs>ignition coil>camshaft sensor>crankshaft sensor>relays under the engine hoodNot ordered yet, but possible cause:>fuel injectors>fuel pump>fuel filter>fuel pressure accumulator (not sure if it has one, didn't find it yet)>exhaust recirculation valve>tested engine control unit when elevated from the motor so it was cold to the touch but the engine still shut off>cleaned main ground connections>checked connector pins, no corrosion or anything>cables seem fine on first glance, no obvious damage>battery, will test with a different oneCar repair shop says it's probably the engine control unit but I doubt it. It will be the last thing that I send to repairs or replace, because replacing all those parts I listed above in such an old car is a good idea anyway and they aren't that expensive.Any ideas what else I could check or do to get this working properly? Anyone had a similar issue that they resolved?TL;DR: car warm = car shuts off randomly and can't start but makes the usual starting noises
>>27809805>car shuts off randomly>when warmMy money is on something with the fuel supply.Or the ECUIf you have the money, like you said, it's always good to replace those parts (although it's only 130km).I would start with the fuel pump, because it's easy, cheap, and likely related
>>27809805>>27809817still me.do you have a video where you can show us the problem please?
>>27809819with sound of course
I have found one issue: in the relay box near the engine it seems to have contact issues which I believe goes to the fuel pump. I found this when I replaced the old relays and was wondering why the car was doing the same thing as when it was warm: cranking but not starting.>>27809817>>27809819I'll get it recorded but essentially the car just keeps cranking and the engine doesn't start. It's sounds exactly the same as if I would be starting it cold, the difference being that it just keeps cranking forever instead of starting after one or two cranks as it should.
>>27810018>I have found one issue: in the relay box near the engine it seems to have contact issues which I believe goes to the fuel pump. I found this when I replaced the old relays and was wondering why the car was doing the same thing as when it was warm: cranking but not starting.ok, that's already a good start. I would start there for sure.>I'll get it recorded but essentially the car just keeps cranking and the engine doesn't start. It's sounds exactly the same as if I would be starting it cold, the difference being that it just keeps cranking forever instead of starting after one or two cranks as it should.gotcha. Very possibly something with the fuel supply like I said. It could be ECU related too. but it's cheaper to fix the fuel supply first, so you're on the right track in my opinion
>>27810018>It's sounds exactly the same as if I would be starting it coldprobably no need tor record it then, although it still could be useful.I'm gonna be gone for a few hours, but I'll check the thread later on anongood luck
>>27810032>>27810037Thanks I appreciate it. I'm a complete noob when it comes to cars but I'm stubborn enough to check and replace every single part until it works.
>>27810116It would be better IMO to check for fuel pressure and spark when it's not starting. That'll atleast narrow it down somewhat.
give it a crank, pull a spark plug and check to see if it's wet with fuelpersonally when I have had these problems in the past it's usually been an overheating ignition coil
Quick update on the relay box. So I managed to take out the cables from the relay sockets after fumbling around with them for an hour or two (had no thin tools to push the pins reliably...) and squeezed the part of the terminals that make a connection with the pins of the relays. Now there doesn't seem to be any contact issue between the relays and sockets, not even when I move the cables.The terminals look like this in the image. Is it just me or do these type of terminal connectors seem unreliable? What alternative relay sockets are there that have more reliable connections? It seems like something that would be good to replace with something better if it exists.As for the warm start issue, I'll be testing it tomorrow to see if it was the relay and/or the sockets that was causing it. The parts I ordered also arrived today, but I'll probably be only able to replace them after tomorrow due to work schedule, maybe earlier.>>27810508I don't have any tools to test the fuel pressure right now but I'll order them after I've checked what I need for it. What should the pressure be? I know when the motor is off, the fuel system should be able to hold around 3 bars according to my research.Faulty injectors could also cause warm start issues/pressure loss, correct?>>27810538>give it a crank, pull a spark plug and check to see if it's wet with fuelIf it isn't wet then it's a generally a fuel pressure issue?>personally when I have had these problems in the past it's usually been an overheating ignition coilI've read that this engine model has ignition coil problems so I've preemptively ordered a new one.
>>27810574>I don't have any tools to test the fuel pressure right nowYou can do a rudimentary test by just releasing the pressure, then turning the key on a few times, trying to start it, and then check if it's pressurized after.
>>27809805Look into the thermostat too.
>>27810592I tried this when the car was warm and wouldn't start. It was only dripping out of the nozzle. So the fuel pressure issue seems to be confirmed. Today or tomorrow I'll have the pressure gauge.>>27813055I'll have a look. I have a suspicion that the cooling system also doesn't work as well as it should.
>>27809805I own an Astra G too.The ECU on these cars is right beside the engine, it heats up and dies.Happened to me and the ECU just killed cylinder 3.Changed the ECH and all good.There is an ECU on later model card which is called Simtec 71.1 and has better coating so it doesnt heat up and die. Example in picrel. Thats the one i have now
>>27814570This is for the 1.8 though but i guess a similar thing happens for 1.6. Maybe the ECU is named differently. Also meant ECU not ECH
>>27814570>The ECU on these cars is right beside the engine, it heats up and dies.I've read this too. In my specific case, when I mount the ECU in such a way that it's elevated from the engine and stays rather cool, the problem still occurs so I doubt it's heat+ECU that is causing the problem right now.How was the procedure to change your ECU? You have to send a new/used one to someone to reprogram it together with the old ECU, right? Is there anything else you have to do?Is there a specific reasons why the ECU is mounted directly on the engine? Does it need to be mounted there or can I mount it elsewhere or elevate it at least to reduce the heat transfer? It seems really dumb to me, as heat and vibrations will sooner or later kill any electronics.
>>27814558>Today or tomorrow I'll have the pressure gauge.awesomeVery good indication that you're narrowing down on the problem. please let us know. I'm still following this thread bro. hope it does turn out to be this, and then we can look at fixing it.
Alright, quick update. Replaced camshaft and crankshaft sensors, replaced all 4 spark plugs and the ignition coil.I also replaced the water pump and underestimated how much work it was, and it was my first time doing something like that, so I had to pull an all nighter. The water pump is connected with the timing belt and it was worn down, the pump's rotation wasn't smooth at all, the bearings were really worn. I managed to break a sensor in the process, which I later figured out was the oil switch responsible for the oil indicator light. I temporarily fixed it with epoxy and a new one is going to arrive in 2 days. I hope it can hang in there until then.After reassembling everything, I checked for errors, none, engine sounded fine too and left it running for a few minutes before I drove once around the block. When I opened the engine hood it was fucking smoking. Looked at the belts and thankfully they were fine, everything else was fine too. When I took that sensor out that I broke, oil must have dripped onto the exhaust and that was the cause for the smoke.I actually wanted to check the fuel pressure but I was already short on time when the pressure guage arrived as I had already started replacing the water pump and needed the car for work in the morning. Drove to work and back and that epoxy actually held and the car seems fine, but the warm start issue persists.Today I will check the fuel pressure, but before that I'll have to get some sleep.
>>27809805You probably have some shitty contact that gets shittier when warm. It's most likely something related to fuel.
>>27818655sounds good anon (and good job on the wrenching)keep us posted please
Ok, checked the pressure.Cold start:>connected pressure gauge, released the pressure>goes from 0 bar to 3,4 bar, car starts normallyWarm start after driving around a bit:>doesn't start>after connecting gauge (lost a bit of pressure by connecting the gauge)>pressure is around 3,0 bar>left for 10 minutes and pressure is still around 3,0 bar>car still does not start>released the pressure, so now at 0 bar>car still doesn't start and pressure remains at 0 barI'm not sure what to make of this, it seems like it's able to hold pressure in the fuel system?
>>27819589>it seems like it's able to hold pressure in the fuel system?it does look like it yesnot sure what to make of it then, but I think you can already assume you're good since the fuel goes to the engine even when hot.I doubt you'd have any issues with the injection at this point, and it'd be strange for the injection to work well when cold, but not when hot.I think you can truly assume you're good supplying fuel to the engine when it's hot.Question then is why does it not start. I am more leaning towards an electrical issue of some sort now. and probably ECU, or some electrical thing that goes down/bad when your car is hot like that anon said>>27818878do you have a way to check what the car computer says?
>>27819625>I am more leaning towards an electrical issue of some sort now. and probably ECU, or some electrical thing that goes down/badI'm going to look for electrical issues but I'll also take apart the exhaust recirculation system because I think it may be gunked up. Not sure if the EGR system could cause this but it can't hurt to clean it either way. The air intake valve is also a bit gunked up around the edges so I'll clean that too, maybe it doesn't seal properly.>do you have a way to check what the car computer says?Yes, I have an ODB2 scanner, it reports no errors unfortunately.
>>27820302>Yes, I have an ODB2 scanner, it reports no errors unfortunately.you will probably want something a bit better than a regular odb scanner. I think the Opels from that generation use OPCOM.
>>27809805>I caught a crankshaft sensor error when it shut offI would start here. Most cars kill themselves immediately if they lose that signal. Failing sensor, rubbed through wire occasionally grounding out, bad connector etc. When it won't start check continuity to ground. Intermittent issues can be a pita but if you look long enough you will either find it or eventually it will break more thoroughly making it easier to find.
>>27820324>>27820331I got the same ODB2 error code again, crankshaft error even with the new crankshaft sensor: P0335I'm starting to suspect it's either an ECU issue or some cable is having issues.Shouldn't the ECU always store an error code if the engine shut off due to the crankshaft sensor having contact issues from cabling? Before this it only stored an error once when the car stalled at a red light, but the other times it stalled it didn't store any errors.Is it worth getting a cheap OPCOM for this? I can get one for 20-30 Euros but the more expensive ones are easily 300-400 Euros. My generic ODB2 scanner is good enough to read out error codes and some values (probably not all), so I'm not sure if it's worth getting.
>>27821280since you can really forget about any issues with fuel getting to your engine when it's hot, I definitely would look into that crankshaft sensor thing, or the wiring that goes along the crankshaft sensor.I think it's still better to get a cheap OPCOM (aliexpress will get you a pirated one for cheap).The ECU should store the error code indeed, but (and that's just my experience), the vendor software will always throw more info than the generic ones, and sometimes, there are vendor specific codes that the generic ones will not even recognize (I dont know if that's the case for OPEL though,....). Also, OPCOM should also be able to give you live monitoring data when the car is hot and cranking, but not starting.I think you are on the right path in any case here, and it's looking really like an electrical fault somewhere (and probably a bad ECU)
>>27809805>camshaft sensor>crankshaft sensor>fuel pressure accumulatorThe main suspects right here, grabbing a contact cleaner with some q-tips then cleaning and checking the electric connections of every sensor is also a good idea
>>27821419Alright, ordered a cheap OPCOM from Aliexpress. Estimated delivery date: Jul 26, 2024.I read a bit into it and apparently I should be able to pair the key/immobilizer with another ECU using OPCOM, assuming I get the exact ECU with all the features that this car has of course.In the meanwhile I'll clean the exhaust recirculation system, air intake valve and check the cables thoroughly. I also found that apparently the default value for the air intake valve is supposed sit around 10% when the engine is off, mine sits at around 14% according to the ODB2 scanner.
>>27809805buy an older carbureted car so you will never have problems like this
>>27821517sounds good.And I truly second this anon very much >>27821513>mine sits at around 14% according to the ODB2 scanner.I doubt this would give you the symptoms you're experiencing, but it's good to keep in mind
>>27809805depending on ambient temp, amd seeing everything you have replaced, this sounds like a vapor lock in the fuel system. i think its worse in returnless systems
>>27809805>astra, vectraBomba de combustible.Bosch vp44, tiré mi vectra por eso mismo.
Update: currently cleaning the air intake valve and it's a pain in the ass. Proper cleaning spray is on the way so right now I'm using oven cleaner but it requires a lot of scrubbing with a toothbrush. It looks like there is a 1mm hole or so that is completely clogged with gunk. What's the purpose of that hole?>>27821513>>27822297>camshaft sensor>crankshaft sensorAs those were changed, I'll check the cabling. If the crankshaft sensor or cable was at fault, could I try to start the car with it unplugged when warm? As I understand, if both are plugged out the car can't run, but as long as one (camshaft/crankshaft) is plugged in and functioning, the car should start. Is this correct?>fuel pressure accumulatorIf it has 3 bar in the fuel system the car should start? or how can I find out what the minimum pressure is supposed to be when warm and shut off?>>27821610What carbureted cars exist that still have easy to obtain replacement parts? I read that it's quite difficult to get replacement parts for old vehicles.>>27824348>Fuel pump.>Bosch vp44, I threw away my vectra for that very reason.I don't speak Spanish, just used an image from the engine I could find online. Did you have the exact same warm start problems? What was your fuel system pressure?
>>27824406>I don't speak Spanishfuck, I thought you were spanish.I had a diesel vectra, the fuel pump got fucked and replaced by the former owner, but it broke again. if it helps I'll tell you the symptoms: you couldn't start. battery ok, start engine ok, no fucking way to get fuel on the engine.I started it with an spray a couple of times, and once the engine was running, it would suck the fuel by itself but it was diesel, so probably highen pressure than gasoline.TLDR, check the fuel pump because that Bosch bitch I told you about killed astras, vectras and whatever car it was instaled on.
Update:Cleaning the air intake valve and freeing that clogged hole didn't solve the issue, but at least it's clean now. The air intake valve value according to the scanner still sits at 14%, even though I've tried to train it according to some forum post.I've also changed the lambda sensor and it seems like it now has a stronger pull, but the warm stalling/start issue is still exists. The stalling seems to happen a bit later now, but I haven't tested it too much so can't say for certain. The main fan also seems to be working after changing the lambda sensor, which seems odd, because before this it never turned on.The temperature sensor for the cooling liquid will also be changed just in case, even though I've tested it with a working sensor from a similar model. The thermostat is probably overdue for a change like everything else in this car so that will be done too.>>27821513I could not find a fuel pressure accumulator for this model. For a similar model, I've read that the fuel pressure should be around 3,8 bar and it should be able to hold 3,4 bar but I don't know how reliable that one forum post is, so it's all I can go by right now.>>27824477The fuel pump (3,8 bar) and filter will arrive soon and then we'll see if that was it.It also feels like I've read every thread and watched every video regarding warm start and stalling issues on the internet for this and similar models, but the probability of it being an ECU issue is only increasing as I'm removing more and more variables.
>>27826372>It also feels like I've read every thread and watched every video regarding warm start and stalling issues on the internet for this and similar models, but the probability of it being an ECU issue is only increasing as I'm removing more and more variables.sounds like it dude.don't worry for the things you've changed already. it's good to replace those in any case, unless you're really struggling with moneyI would wait until you get the opcom if I was you
Sell car and buy a golf like a normal person
>>27826810Probably, but it was worth a try because the problem only occurs when the car (and ecu) is warm.
Update:Did some more testing regarding the fuel pressure/fuel pump. When the car is cold and I start the car the fuel pressure jumps to 3,5 bars instantly. Once hot and the car shuts off on its own, it instantly dropped to 3,0 bars and 20 minutes later it sits at 2,6 bars.One thing I did notice while testing is the sound of the fuel pump.On cold start: high pitched humming noise, quite noticeable.On unsuccessful warm start: nothing.When the car is cooling down and almost at the point where it is able to start, the humming noise is extremely faint and when the car is cold again, the noticeable humming noise is back to full strength and the car is able to start.What is also interesting is the gauge doesn't even budge when cranking the car warm. I would have expected (maybe wrongly?) to see the needle moving a bit up and down or at least jiggling or something if it was a vapor lock issue, but absolutely nothing happens. The needle doesn't budge one bit.
>>27809805>Long autistic wrenchlet text >waah fix it for me
>>27830935>interesting thread on /o/>random poz faggot is madOP I'm voting for the opcom interface. The big boi software should provide live data when the engine is running and that might help you identify the problem even without useful error codes. Just remember to run that crap in a VM unless you want to mine coins for chang.
>>27830932Does the fuel pump receive the same voltage hot as it does cold? Seems weird that it would make different noises. Had as astra G once, but never had this problem. There is a trick you can do with holding certain pedals if there is a check engine light. It will flash in pattern that corresponds to the type of error.I knew the previous owner, and combined we drove more than 120k km with the check engine light on for the EGR valve so that part is not critical.
>okay cold>broken hotReminds me of solenoid fuckery in my transmission. Anything like that in the fuel injection system? If there's one of those gremlins in there try and heat it a bit with a hair drier or something and do a "cold start" then.
>>27831068Reminds me of coolant temp fail. But that wouldnt explain the shutting off. Only the no start when hot
>>27830973>Does the fuel pump receive the same voltage hot as it does cold?Will check once the fuel pump arrives. The check engine light doesn't light up so as far as I'm aware it wouldn't show me anything but I'll try. I don't know which astra engine has the issue, but if the EGR channels in the intake manifold clog, then it does have similar symptoms. But I have the Z16SE which only has one thick EGR channel. I'll take apart the intake manifold on the weekend once I have more time.>>27831068>Reminds me of solenoid fuckery in my transmission. Anything like that in the fuel injection system?Only thing I can think of is the EVAP purge valve.
Now that I think about it, that thick EGR channel obviously has to lead to each cylinder, so there should be thinner channels elsewhere. Sounds like it will be a pita to clean.
