Underrated,overrated or overhated
>>27943011I know nothing of this, but does it make at least as much power as a baby 5.7 hemi from 2004? That's a pretty low bar, no?
german engines confuse me, and i'm not even talking about the borg cube design.
>>27943011Overhated but overall a middle of the pack engine from bmw. It layed a good foundation for the current turbo 6, but the n55 had a better setup and had far less issues. As an engine though, it blew the contemporary bmw v8 from the m3 out of the water. You only needed a tune and exhaust work to get into the 400s iirc
>>27943011Overrated. Not enough displacement to be relevant. Pretty sure no one has ever put one in a plane.
>>27943011I think it's adequately rated
>>27943011A good engine that often gets blown up by retarded joggers with bolts on and jb4 tunes expecting too much out of a stock engine.
>>27943019Comparing a gas guzzler Stone Age engine against a “modern” engine. The rest of the world doesn’t need v8s or can’t afford it. gas is not cheap like in the states. It’s like comparing an apple with an avocado.It’s a good engine . Not overrated or underrated just right. But needs good serving and you have to be able to work on it . Avoid high expectations and serious mods . I had 3series just with a tune , dp and gearbox flash . Was just right. Never broke down or made any problems.
>>27943011Underrated imo.The problems this engine has have been blown out of the water because you can get into the 400s easily and people who can't afford the maintainance buy them and can't afford to fix them.They had factory defects, but by now any n54 has them adressed.The N54 is known for it's tuning potential but have you ever driven one stock, or lightly tuned? (exhaust, intake, ic, remap).It feels wonferful to drive, it's eerie how it can have diesel-like torque curve but still rev to 7k and make power up to 6k, while being very smooth about it.It can also be shockingly frugal on fuel if you can control your right foot. My 335i had better highway fuel economy than most of my friend's 1.4 and 1.6 hot hatches and it was only about 20-30% worse in city. Let that sink in and keep in mind the 335 is also much heavier than those cars.It's a gem of an engine, really. The n55 is great, but doesn't feel quite as good when you've experienced the n54.
>>27943011wow nice inline v6 you posted OP
>>27943011Overrated. I’ve gotten plenty of speeding tickets already with my N52-powered E92, I don’t see why anyone would need more power for a daily driver. Thing can hit 120mph pretty easily and keeps up with stock bloaty 335ix’s and the sort as it’s like 500 lbs lighter due to being RWD MT and having one of the lightest 6 cylinder engines ever made.Oh and it’s dead reliable, unlike the N54. All I’ve changed are sparkplugs and an ignition coil.
>>27943011overheated
I don’t know nuffin about bimmers but my car has a B58 in it. Is this good or bad?
>>27944853Poorfag coping that he can’t afford a turbocharged vehicle …..
>>27943011don't think people really talk much about them anymorepretty reliabledownpipe + tune and you're now at 400hp, same as v8's from the era
>>27945226I need something reliable as a daily driver. The N52 is an absolute tank, the N54 is not.
>>27945201Modern day 2jz you can make 500hp effortlessly
>>27945201B48 and B58 are actually good engines.
>>27943423>>27944635I own an 335is and the max you can get with that on stock twin turbos is less than 385whpStill not an S55 tho which is underrated motor>>27945201B58 is now the nigger special. NuSuprafags and M340i niggers ruined the scene>>27945323The N52 has timing chain issues retard. N54 is good its just the shit around the motor like Index 12 injectors that go bad and the water pump/HPFP
>>27944022I'm not reading all of that, and I am not googling it, does the n52 make more power than a pos hemi from 20 years ago?(340hp). That bar is low af, the 5.7 makes like 395hp now and ofc its not even one of the nice hemis.
>>27945701>af>ofc>not reading all thatThis site makes me sadder with every passing day
>>27945712More sad*And don't be more sad when you post a paragraph response to a yes/no question and it doesn't get read.
>>27943011>overhatedoverheated*
>>27945701The BMW N52 made 268hp in 2005, when the 5.7 hemi was rated at 340hp. A better comparison for the N52 is the 2002 chrysler EGJ 3.5L V6, which was rated at 255hp.Lol, so it's just another generic shitbox engine, why even bring it up?
>>27945779My LQ4 made 330hp in 2005 while being physically smaller. Gee I wonder why nobody ever swaps these pieces of shit into anything.
>>27945490>b58 is now the nigger special Sad but true anon
>>27945490About 380-390whp sounds right for stock twins with basic mods, you can get more with meth injection but that's too bothersome, maxing stock twins pre-meth already gaps the M3.Then you focus on M3 suspension and an LSD and you can have a real killer of a car.
>>27944853No anon, just no.I love both engines, I've owned several N54s and several specs of the N52.My current N52 is the lightest chasis it's ever been in, Z4 3.0si and it would never be able to race an E90/92 335, even in stock form. Keep in mind, Z4 is 1350kg while both 335s I owned were just under 1600kg. The Z4 would be a lightpost behind in any sort of straight line race, I'd bet money on it.The lightest E92 330i, 6MT with frugal options, is around 1480kg. The only scenario where that car could keep up with a 335 would be against a stock auto E93 with all the options, a full trunk and a fat driver.
Chuddies ITT real jelly of the b58
>>27946056I only acknowledge engines that are FAA certified.
>>27943011It's a beautiful motor but the injectors were a bridge too far. They're almost $500 now and there are no other options.
For me it's the M57
>>27946291qrd me on this, I really wanna own an e9x sometime
qrd on the s68?
>>27946056It is quite literally what the car is known for its the new hellcat
>>27946662not my problem. ain’t no hellcats in yurop
>>27946336say goodbye to your rod bearings on repeat
>>27946673Arabs are gonna get these one of these days
>>27945779> The BMW N52 made 268hp in 2005, when the 5.7 hemi was rated at 340hpSo a 3.0L engine made like 20% less power than an engine with almost double the displacement?. And not to mention BMW underrates hp while American automakers overrate hp. Thanks for showing how good the N52 was at the time for a bulletproof NA engine.
>>27945956Still won't handle like an E92 M3 even though you have all the control arms, theyre completely different cars. Also the M3 control arm kit will just add bump-steer to the 3er car
>>27947020There is a common misconception about the E90 M3.Alot of people think that like the previous M3s, there were chasis modifications as well.There were not, braces aside, there's no difference to the chasis from a 316i to the M3.M3 subframe carrier can be swapped onto normal 3er, with all the suspension components, diff, brakes, etc.On an N54 car, you'd need tweaks to engine mounts and the driveshaft. Those aren't hard to do and I know several people in my country that do it, many cars on the road like this.Then you have quite literally an M3 with N54 engine, for a fraction of the cost of the M3.Keep in mind that N54 cars tend to be ligther than most M3s as well.
>>27946997Cope and Sneed with your plastic internals and subpar powerBMW is only good stock and under warranty. Germany forgot how to design resilient equipment.
>>27946997Then why didn't bmw just increase the displacement? 268hp wasn't a lot, even in 2005. It's just a normal traffic engine
>>27946997My brother in christ, you are arguing about if its truly better than a 3.5L literalwho chrysler v6 from 2002, not even a remotely sporty American engine from that era. The N52 is just a regular traffic engine, idk what form of autism draws you to it
>>27947309> not even a remotely sporty American engine from that eraA 2005 Corvette made 400 hp out of a 6 liter engine.Are you saying that a 3 liter low-maintenance 7000 RPM non-M naturally aspirated engine making 268hp was unimpressive in 2005?>>27947032You say muh plastic engine but the reality is that most Hemis from the era died a while back from lifter failure or the chassis died from horrible rust.Meanwhile an N52 will make it to 600k miles (along with its chassis) and beyond with just oil changes, valve cover gaskets and some coolant couplings (muh plastic).
>>27946997>hp/L memeidk why people are responding, newfags
>>27947434>3 liter low-maintenance 7000 RPM non-M naturally aspirated engine making 268hp was unimpressive in 2005?Yes.
>>27947434If the n52 was actually a good engine it would make at least as much horsepower as a lazy base model pushrod 2004 hemi. As other anon stated, no one uses the n52 for swaps because it's just not a very good engine
>>27947434>Are you saying that a 3 liter low-maintenance 7000 RPM non-M naturally aspirated engine making 268hp was unimpressive in 2005?is this not literally the same numbers as every 6 cylinder from that era? 350z, v6 camry, v6 accord, are all around 260-300hp
Speaking of challys. Do they actually drive well or are they inferior to its competitors?How’s the steering feel?I can’t into mustangs because they literally feel like camrys
>>27947614Watch a video of any street takeover an you'll see
>>27947614i have NEVER seen a chally at a track day
>>27947732that’s why I’m wondering. there are barely any confirmed times over at fastestlaps either. I get the feeling challys handle like shit and are strictly for posing and straight line driving
>>27947732They were in trans am
im gonna swap a bmw engine into this mk2 supra I just picked up, what engine should I go for?m50, m52 or m54?I wanna turbo it at some point, goal like 400whp eventually I have an m54 in my e39 and I like it but just not sure if it's the best option for the eventual turbo
>>27947790M50b25s are great for boosting I hear
>>27947790Single turbo N54
>>27947790M50 is the iron block one, right? These get boosted alot.M54 otherwise, the stock internals can get you a long way into 400whp.
>>27947466> If the n52 was actually a good engine it would make at least as much horsepower as a lazy base model pushrod 2004 hemiYou want a mass produced 3.0L engine that powers sedans/coupes and cuckovers to make the same power as a 5.7L that does not give a fuck about efficiency? We’re talking about a mass produced relatively low cost engine, not a Ferrari hand assembled masterpiece.
>>27948154>does not give a fuck about efficiency?Yes, that's not a performance metric. From where I am standing it seems your only argument is that the n52 was a marvel of fuel efficiency, in which case its rated 29mpg highway is hardly better than other v6s at the time.
>>27948154>>27948214The main strenghts of the N52 were torque delivery for an na engine and smoothness.It makes ok power, gets ok fuel economy. but it's not that special. Better than any VQ though, despite the smaller displacement.
>>27947787that is as much of a challenger as a nascar is
>>27943980>Overrated. Not enough displacement to be relevant. Pretty sure no one has ever put one in a plane.>no one has ever put one in a planethat is a fucking funny criteria for "relevancy" I actually laughed. I can't think of any popular car engine I'd put in a plane I'd rather have a rotax. Fuck a heavy ass car engine + reduction gearbox.
>>27944635Conrods are toothpicks compared to 2jz and it just doesn't sound good.
>>27947901The head crackers? Those can't handle even the stock power.
>>27947790M52B28 (iron block). M54s are weaker, M50s are smaller. >>27949179Wrong. Bone stock + head gasket and studs M50s are regularly boosted to over 500hp. M50s are also less likely to crack heads than M20s and the heads are cheaper since they're more plentiful.
what does n stand for
>>27949177Well duh, it's not an engine built for boost.Still, the M54 has forged conrods and decent pistons, the internals are good for about 400 crank, anything more you're playing with fire, though there are builds that have pushed them to 500+ wheel on stock internals.Fuck, if the n52 can do 600whp on stock internals and survive a few months before blowing up, the m54 can probably do 500 wheel semi-safely.
>>27943011Overheated
>>27949193Nincompoop
>>27943011Nah bmw can go fuck itself
>>27943011It sits where it should. You can find N54 335's for pretty damn cheap. Friend has had one for about 5 years now. I really love how much low end torque his car has compared to my B58 when driving it. As long as you are fine replacing the shit that breaks around the engine and possibly coughing up the cash for index 12s they can be a great tuners engine for the cost.
>>27949325Retard the B58 has more low end torque. The n54s smaller turbos make it spool quicker than a B58 at low rpm but the B58 stock has way more low end torque Still prefer the power curve of N54 tho.
>>27947901The head crackers? Those can't handle even the stock power. Back in the day those where called glass engines.
>>27949617They can make 500 wheel on stock internals if you don't act like a retard
>>27944022>implying an N54 has better fuel mileage than a gen 3 hemi
>>27950045Have you ever owned one? It gets amazing fuel economy, even in city driving, and keep in mind it was only in pretty heavy cars.
Index 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, and 11 fuel injectors have a 100% failure rate over time. A surprisingly high percentage of N54s on the road today are still running either the OEM injectors or a set that got replaced under warranty a decade ago.A new set of injectors right now is running TWENTY FIVE HUNDRED FUCKING DOLLARS. Without tax and without labor. Don't "it's easy bro, it takes 20 minutes bro, I've changed them on the side of the road bro" me. It takes time even if you're DIYing it, and it's not without risk, like an injector tip breaking off or a fuel rail nut cracking.N54 cars are 15 years old now give or take, and are very far down the depreciation curve. Once those injectors start leaking enough where it becomes a driveability fault or won't pass state emissions, the car is totaled. That's WITHOUT MENTIONING that the valve cover is leaking, oil filter housing gasket is leaking, oil pan gasket is leaking (literally an 8-10 hour job on xdrive models), the turbos make clanking sounds at cold starts, the water pump and thermostat are on borrowed time, and the high pressure fuel pump is going to give out any day now. You would have to be actually retarded to put that much money into an old 2010 X3 or 335i or whatever.You cannot convince me that an engine can be considered "good" when it has a component with a 100% failure rate that totals the car when it goes bad.
>>27950091How is this real wtf
>>27950091Car prices vary by region, n54 cars are still keeping value all over the world. Also, you don't have to change all 6 at the same time.Also, while they do fail, I've heard much less talk about injector failures in regards to N54s here in europe. Perhaps better quality fuel does help them live longer.
>>27950091direct injection was a mistake
>>27950138I went to Facebook Marketplace, typed "335i", and these are the first results. Not edited, not filtered, not cherry picked, not sorted by price. Just the first ones to pop up. This is what the N54 market looks like in the US.Only six of them actually run and drive, including one that specifically lists needing turbos. None of them would be worth the price of a set of injectors with labor, plus the price of fixing any one fluid leak. The most expensive one is $9500 which there is no chance in hell he will get for a car that needs a xenon headlight and "a little brake work".
>>27950205As I said, different regions, different prices.These cars are above 10k in Europe, above 20k in my country.
>>27950091Don't all mechanical components have a 100% failure rate over time? Nothing lasts forever.
>>27950283No. Most of the parts of a car last the entire service live of the vehicle. I know that sounds incorrect, but it's true. The majority of components will be original when a car is towed to a scrap yard at end of life (200k-300k miles) by a wide margin. I'm willing to bet you have never had to replace fuel injectors on any gasoline fuel car you've ever owned. Even if you have, I'm sure a set of injectors didn't cost $2500.The point is that it's essentially a wear item on this particular engine-- a wear item that costs a significant portion of the residual value of the car.
>>27950205They are eventually gonna reach 240sx prices along with any vq car
>>27950205Around my area I can find some 335s that claim 400-500hp for like 6k-7k
>>27950417True, had EG Civic, 500kkm on original injectors, fuel pump. Only oil leak was dizzy seal.What people consider normal maintenance on bmw is insane tho what would you expect from car company that has 30 years long problem with stupid headliner and is still not able to fix it.
>>27951447Yeah but it's a fucking civic
>>27950478When pigs fly
>>27950478240s were cheap because they were cheap to begin with and only got expensive when the supply got depleted. N54 cars are cheap because they have about the same repair and maintenance costs as a used Ferrari. Completely different economics going on.
>>27953242Now what about g35s and 350zs
>>27953242>same repair and mantainance costs as a used ferrarilmao, do people actually believe this?have you owned several n54 cars as well as ferraris anon, or are you just parroting what you read on the internet?
>>27954807You are either delusional or completely ignorant of the realities of car ownership by the average person. For one, a VERY small fraction of vehicle owners do their own repair-- this means wholesale internet parts prices are not what the vast majority will be paying for replacement parts, and labor costs of the later E-chassis cars are not trivial. For two, you cannot claim a cars repair and maintenance cost are less significant than they are by simply deferring the repair. Ignoring that oil filter housing gasket leak does not mean it costs less to fix.Any N54 car can be expected to need during the course of ownership: water pump, injectors, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, high pressure fuel pump, oil filter housing gasket, and turbochargers. It's not if, it's when. A fast and rough way to get a ballpark figure of a repair bill price is to take an internet wholesale part cost and multiply it by four. Again, that's a very rough way to do it but with parts markup, labor, fluids, hardware, single use parts, and tax, it ends up in that price range. It will be less than the x4 on repairs with abnormally expensive parts and be more than x4 on jobs that take an abnormally large amount of labor. I would estimate someone would be paying: Water pump and thermostat $1600. Injectors $4100. Valve cover $1000. Oil pan gasket (xdrive) $1300. High pressure fuel pump $1600. Oil filter housing gasket $400. Turbochargers $5500. All of these prices would be in addition to the more normal repair/maintenance any other car would need at an age of 15yr/150k. Starter under an intake manifold, a giant ass AGM battery with DME registration, low profile tires, suspension bushings, shocks/struts, HUGE brakes on 35i models, cracking brake hoses, fluids and filters, spark plugs, ignition coils, etc.You caught me, I've never owned a Ferrari. I own a large repair shop though and I see what cars cost to fix. N54 is the most expensive non-exotic car to keep running properly.
>>27954918I have no idea where you're pulling these numbers from, even if they include labour. 1300$ for an oil pan gasket, come the fuck on, not even on x-drive where you must drop the subframe carrier does it get that bad.First of all, no, not all N54 cars will need these things.The only thing that has an expiration date is the HPFP. Turbos are fine once sorted, oil leaks are gone forever once sorted, injectors don't fail as often as the internet says and in index 12 are solid. There's many things that fail more often than injectors that you didn't even mention. Fuel pressure regulator, LPFP, VANOS stuff, various sensors, expansion tank and more.And I don't get why you assume every single N54 out there needs all these things done. The overwhelming majority will be on their #th HPFP, will have sorted turbos, sorted oil leaks, etc. If someone buys a ratty example, he should expect to face issues.Having owned two of these cars, here's what I paid, including labour:2k euros turbos rebuild, with new WG actuators, gaskets, lines, etc.1100 euros new HPFP (would be 400 if I went for a rebuilt one)500 euros water pump, preventatively, old one was fine.700 euros OHFG, VCG, vavle stem seals and some VANOS shit gaskets. 90% of that is the valve stem seals and vcg labour.60 euros oil pan gasket.300 euros fuel pressure regulator.130 euros expansion tank.300 euros 6 new coils.And it's not like all of that happened at once, these were spread repairs over a few years. I bought that car with 130k kms and sold it at 200k kms, with alot of abuse in it's life.Wanna know how much I spent on my second one, over the two years and 40k kms I had it?150 euros for expansion tank. 400 euros for a stuck rear brake caliper that forced me to change discs and pads early.That's it, nothing else has failed.Know why? Because I paid a bit more and bought the cleanest one I could find.
>>27955036>I pay less for parts, so why doesn't someone across the ocean?
>>27955036>labour>eurosSo we're comparing car ownership on two completely different continents, cool>injectors don't fail as often as the internet saysNo no, I'm sure everyone else on the internet who is wrong, not you with your sample size of two cars. Notice all the people with injector problems on the internet are from North America. Your overpriced gas somehow makes them last longer. Here, N54 injectors always fail before Index 12.>come the fuck on, not even on x-driveYou are way way off on oil pan gasket pricing. Xdrive takes 8 to 10 hours plus an alignment. Pull out your calculator and multiply that by your shops labor rate per hour. Your 60 euro price is bullshit. That might barely get you the gasket itself and the 33 pan bolts but it's certainly not going to get you labor, oil, and filter. Your water pump price sounds about right... only if you entirely don't include the labor. HPFP price is accurate if you account for exchange rate and the fact that the pumps have gone up in price since you had it done.>overwhelming majority will be on their #th(...)Saying money won't need to be dumped into this piece of shit of an engine just because a previous owner will have dumped money into this piece of shit of an engine is does prove your point that they aren't as bad as people say. Crazy copealso>has to replace turbochargers, wastegate actuators, high pressure fuel pump, water pump, oil filter housing gasket, valve cover gasket, valve stem seals, oil pan gasket, fuel pressure regulator, expansion tank, ignition coils>all in a 44k mile span>doesn't think N54 is the most expensive possible car to repair/maintaindelusional confirmed
>>27955146I never said it's reliable or easy to mantain, I basically said you're exaggerating.I was actually in constant fear of injector failure, when the fuel pressure regulator had issues I was terrified. Several mechanics and my tuner (one of the most reputable in europe) assured me the internet exaggerates, it does happen, alot, but not as much as the internet says. Perhaps it's a fuel quality thing like you mentioned.My car was rwd, that's why the oil pan gasket was basically only labour. I guess there might have been another 70 euros worth of oil if I didn't combine it with an oil change.The argument was on how expensive they are to own today, not from new to now. It was also meant to imply that the previous owner(s) and service history are very big factors when buying one of these.My case is a good example. I bought one on the cheaper side the first time and I needed to do almost everything on it over the time I had it.I paid a bit more for good one the second time and it was almost flawless.I actually keep in touch with the guy that bought my first one, exchange tips etc, aside from breaking an axle after constant launches at a street race, it's been great so far, more than four years later.
>>27954760The g35 is cheap fairly reliable but idk about the supply
>>27955036God what a piece of shit.
>>27955548No it's the ultimate driving machine
>>27955768You're damn right.
>>27955781Hoooly based
>>27945336Don't Sully the B58s name by comparing it to that 30 year old overrated hunk of cast iron. It's better than the 2JZ in every conceivable way. >>27945490Mine is dynod at 420whp on stock turbos. Upgraded inlets, downpipes, intake, intercooler, and a MHD tune. With cheap 17t turbos you can get close to 550whp on pump gas.
>>27947790M50B25 iron block, stroked up to 3L with an M54B30 crank and internals.
>>27950091My N54 is running a Frankenstein mishmash of injectors, ranging from 1 to 12. When one starts leaking I swap it out for a secondhand one for 100 bucks and carry on.
>>27950128It's not. Index 1s were pretty good, but they were expensive so BMW started costcutting and made it worse. Anything index 10 and above is fine too, just avoid 2-8
>>27950283You are genuinely unintelligent. Like I'm not even going to address what you said here. I'm just saying that I really do feel bad for you.
>>27956112What do you expect from this site anon
>>27955036>68k miles over two cars, one was mintAnd here's the fundamental difference between European car owners and American car owners. Most of us drive more than that, and some of us are a lot more. My girl not exaggerating put 50,000 miles on her Hyundai Kona in the first year. We've done... oil changes and a set of tires. Granted we drive a lotta highway with fewer cold starts/heat cycles but yeah, any car that needs something besides tires/brake pads/oil in the first 100k miles is either bad or bean counter engineering. VW doesn't sell well here and anyone who's the first owner of any of the other German brands knows about the autistic higher maintenance and can afford it. I had a 1999 e300td last year and you want to know what type of oil you use on an oil change? So do I because it wasn't listed on the filler cap or in the owner's manual. Shit you not. That's how badly designed these cars are. You can stamp your foot and shout that you must take it to the dealer for all maintainence and oil changes but that's grossly unrealistic in america. Also pulling that lifetime fill auto tranny shit starting in 90s? Yeah I am NEVER buying German again. Picrel, said kona from last fall. I'm actually riding in it rn lol
>>27956183I got nothing against buying something reliable and cheap to get the job done and if that suits you, that's fine anon.While lifetime tranny oil and 30k oil changes are marketing shit, you can't really compare vehicles made to be appliances with performance oriented ones.Performance cars are an experience that requires a premium above most other cars, and german cars even more so.
>>27956203>german cars even more so.You're so close to understanding like I don't know how you could be any closer without getting it
>>27956238I do understand anon, but for me this experience is worth the extra expenses.I understand that's not true for everyone.If the only thing I'm looking for in a car is transportation, I would have never owned a german car, nevermind an n54, in the first place.
>>27943011>water pump dies>oil flow issuesit's shit>>27944022shut up yuropoor. not reading your whining
>>27956267>oil flow issuesWtf are you talking about. The N54 has more than sufficient oiling, you can take the stock block up to 700hp
>>27956012>>by comparing it to that 30 year old overrated hunk of cast iron. It's better than the 2JZ in every conceivable way.Wow you are slow mentally. Also Kys you make shit WHP after burning that much $ on overpriced nu-mods just to get close to a base stock M4 dyno
