this shit is the only thing that bottlenecked the whole ev industryare we at the limit of chemical battery?is there any other viable alternative?
>>27985602yeah
there's no escaping ze grid, goy
>>27985602Bro, there was a race to the bottom on lithium ion batteries last year with CATL being the winner. It was a bidding war to see who would supply BYD for their EV production. Prices on batteries plummeted, and will be reflected in 26MY. At the same time, CATL announced a battery with a 15 year, million mile warranty and Samsung announced a solid state battery. The CATL is being tested in commercial vehicles right now while the Samsung will be in high end vehicles for 27MY. I suspect these stories are repressed by someone. It could be the oil industry, the anuto industry, or their legions of useful idiots. I’m not gung ho on EV’s but I still think it’s interesting.
>>27985602solid states are already being used in limited capacity around the world, they’ll probably become a lot more prevalent in the next few years
>>27985602>are we at the limit of chemical battery?Most battery cells out there now are in the 190 to 250 Wh/kg range.A few car companies have started using semi-solid batteries in the 290 to 360 Wh/kg range.Solid state cells around 500 Wh/kg have started to hit mass production, but not at automotive scale yet.Limited production of cells for aerospace projects have hit 750 to 1350 Wh/kg.Most people just want 300 miles of range, and don't really care about vehicle weight, so car makers are just using LFP because it is cheap, and robust.Solid state cells will ultimately be cheaper, but because they have more capacity than NMC they'll be at a premium until they really scale up.
i remember musk said he had been interested in supercaps/hypercaps early on but abandoned it...too bad
It's not a battery problem, it's an energy storage problemIf we learn to make hydrogen vessel coatings cheap that aren't prone to embrittlement, hydrogen will get adopted. Plus we get to keep motorsports sounding great.
>>27985782Current generation super capacitors still don't have enough energy density to work as a longer range vehicle's primary storage.Sodium ion cell chemistry can blur the lines more, with storage capacity approaching what we normally think of as batteries, with power delivery more like capacitors.
>>27985602>is there any other viable alternative?Human.
>>27985793Even if the problem with hydrogen leaking and making its containers brittle over time requiring replacing the hydrogen tanks is solved, there is still the volumetric density issue.FCEVs like the Mirai can store more energy than the highest capacity BEVs, but not that much more. 180kWh for the Mirai vs 150kWh for cars with NIO's 150kWh battery pack.But the Mirai has to sacrifice significantly more of the vehicles internal space to hydrogen tanks, and even with that the Mirai has less real world range than the BEV due to its lower efficiency.Roughly 70MPGe for the Mirai vs 135MPGe for BEVs in the same class.The only way to get a 25MPG Hydrogen ICE car to go the same distance is to turn the whole car into a hydrogen tank on wheels, which is what Toyota had to do for the hydrogen Yaris they used for marketing a few years ago.
>>27985827swapping tanks or high pressure refueling still puts it ahead of EVs for daily use
>>27985793I got a feeling the Toyota Mirai was made as a response to certain storage & fuel cell technologies maturing. Not to actually make a decent car Nor to build any infrastructure, or to transfer any of the proven concepts to heavier vehicle classes where they could be VERY economical due a lot of factors that don't exist on personal cars. Its almost as if it do not exist as a vehicle sold to the publicBut a way to maintain generational knowledge about current capabilities, so that the Japanese paranoia about a total blockade during WW3 won't be super bad instead of just grimAnd that includes LIMITED MASS PRODUCTION, as opposed to limited production as seen in luxury cars.
>>27985841But there's no infrastructure to support it.We have half a million gas stations and enough power lines to reach Mars.We do not have storage vessels, transportation vehicles, pipelines or a non -DEI labor pool to deal with the retail end of hydrogen.Tyrone will run down the freeway at 80mph on a blown tire, do you really think they're going to keep up with maintenance with a 2,000 psi tank in their trunk?
>>27985841It really doesn't. For two weeks of driving:Charging at home from the grid costs $7 or $8. Off-grid can be pennies.Filling up a 70MPGe FCEV costs $50 to $60.Filling up a Hydrogen ICE car will cost $150 minimum.There's a reason why Toyota has to sell their FCEVs with $15k fuel cards, and that often gets burned through in less than 3 years.
>>27985637heyyyy that will finally keep the fat fucks out of the left lane
>>27985863>there's no infrastructureIt's really not ready for adoption yet>power lines/gas stationsThese took lots of development and investment over time>we don't have it yetCorrect>fearmongering and racist remarkThe idea behind safe hydrogen cars is never to rely on the driver to ensure it remains safePlease try to assume some critical thinking skills
>>27985602>is there any other viable alternative?Gasoline.
>>27985873>random numbersPost your figures if they're so easily accessible to you
>>27985602Lot's of money is being put into researching better batteries. A lot of people are in a rat race to be the first to make a viable battery breakthrough.
>>27985905So I just checked the actual up to date price for hydrogen at a station in California and it is actually significantly more than I'd assumed from past data. The price is moving the wrong direction if you want hydrogen to catch on.$33 a kg now. Where for reference, a kilogram of hydrogen has about the same energy as a gallon of gasoline.Filling up a 12kg hydrogen tank for a hydrogen ICE car would cost about $400.Filling up the 5.6kg tanks in a Mirai would cost $185.Meanwhile the cost of filling up a EV is still about the same.
why didn’t compressed air hybrids take off? Were they too good, so O&G pressured auto makers to kill the project?
>>27985997More moving parts, more complexity, and less stored energy, all for a higher cost. Hybrid electric vehicles ideally eliminate parts, and make it easier to store more energy for longer.
>>27985901>racist remark
