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What do you guys think about the new Tokyo extreme racer game?
>>
>video toys
>>
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>>28225763
>arcade
>>
>no honda
>>
>>28225784
Honda hasnt made a good car in 20+ years anyways
>>
Love me some TXR3
https://youtu.be/fOGeqg3a9Ts?si=IQ_bJScywclcDIil
>>
Based slop
>>
>>28225784
grim.
>>
Didn't play any of the previous games, but I've heard that it's a fun series so I'll play the new game. Especially because I've heard it's going to be good because devs made an old game, but new instead of throwing everything people liked out of the window, like most devs tend to do nowadays. And if I like it, I'll go play some of the older ones.
>>
>early access
The answer is no
>>
>>28225803
Early access in this case simply means available cars
>>
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>>28225763
I hope this will be better than TDU solar crown
>>
Genki is based
>>
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>a heee hee imaa make vida gaem thread not in >>>/o/ovg
game is absolutely based as fuck but kill yourself
>>
>>28225763
Absolutely based. Best racing game ever played and it's only early access. Cars have actually weight to them, it's difficult to even drive a 130hp car at its limit.
Sense of speed isn't all fucked up either.
Can race litetal NPC traffic kei wagons.
The map is so detailed. Physics are top tier. Feels like actually driving on highway
>>
Probably grab it once its on sale.
Its the first game I can describe as reasonably priced in a long while.
>>
>>28225782
ridge racer 2 on psp is best racer fite me
>>
>>28225763
I'm just amazed Genki isn't dead.
>>
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>>28227377
fuk yuo
>>
>>28225803
its essentially a glorified public beta test. if you buy it now you get access to the full game for free
>>
>>28225969
>£25
Holy shit, I just assumed it was twice that and neve bothered looking, Genki are based as fuck.
>>
>>28227449
they died after itc and then came back and pumped out mobile slop for a decade and a half
>>
>>28225969
>>28227580
its priced this way only for the early access, i doubt itll go on sale. i assume the full game will be 50-60 dollars
>>
>>28225763
>Wangan bumper cars
No.
>>
>>28227571
>Buy now
>It's free
>Buy

Jewish hands...
>>
>>28225763
Holy shit, I had no idea there was a new TXR. I played the fuck out of Zero and 3 back in the day. Don't really do much vidya anymore but I'm tempted, guess I'd have to go buy a controller though since MKB blows for driving.
>>
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>>28227898
>Bumper cars!
yes
>>
>>28225763
If you have fond memories of TXR then it's good.
If you're a zoomie then you probably won't like it.
>>
MACHINE
>>
I like it a lot
>>
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kino supremo
>>
>>28228417
i would actually say if you aren't a hardcore weeb you won't get it
ive heard a lot of people go "wtf it's just a highway" not realizing it's a REAL highway in a REAL city and the game is about actual street racing real people still do to this day, not some stupid NFS racetrack town where legally-distinct Brian O'Connor and Dominic Toretto live.
>>
How many times did (You) lose to Melancholic Angel?
>>
>>28225782
playing sim racing games is a cope and a sure fire indicator of not having a fast enough car IRL.
>>
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>>28225763
Its just slop.

It is a single player game where the AI is noticably rubber bandy, theres only one racing location which is just a big highway and its moreso one of those RPG racers where what you have leveled up determines if you can win or not than your understanding of the car or the course.

There is a story mode but its more so about having one offs with quirky characters. If you wanna play a racing game theres more out there that offer more excitement in gameplay and story like Split/Second or shit if it has to be Jap try out Racing Lagoon
>>
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>>28229393
"playing sim racing games is a cope" is itself a turbocope for poorfags who can't afford a half-decent computer and wheel

racing is racing video game or not, if you make lame excuses you're just as much a little bitch as the genuinely tiny handful of racing game players who legitimately can't drive irl. nut up or shut up.
>>
I wanted to like txr3 and zero, but got fed up with the gameplay and rubberbanding.
Why should I try this instead?
>>
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>>28229397
it's early access you fucking dipshit the games not even half done

>the AI is noticably rubber bandy,
there is literally no rubber banding, you're just bad enough the ai is able to draft you.
i actually wish there was rubber banding because once you get past the opponent they back off and you've basically won. there is a bug where they won't get too close to your rear bumper and it makes it easy to win by swerving directly in front as soon as the pass is completed.

>theres only one racing location which is just a big highway
an incredibly famous real life highway the nips made like 6 movies and two or three comic series about
it's like if americans made a game about racing on the atlanta beltway. it's not a racetrack, it's a real place, that's the challenge.


>its moreso one of those RPG racers where what you have leveled up determines if you can win or not than your understanding of the car or the course.
you can beat a faster car using better cornering skills and drafting up to a point, the ai is very slow in corners and gets stuck on shit/rams traffic a lot. part of the strategy of the game is challenging opponents in spots where you know their car will be at a disadvantage. also you can ram and pit like a motherfucker, you don't have to race clean.
>>
>>28229406
it's in active development and you can yell at genki personally thru steam reviews for features you want to see

also it is very, very pretty
>>
>>28229401
>who can't afford a half-decent computer and wheel
instead I own two sports cars I can hoon :^) keep coping while I get actual seat time
>>
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>>28229411
>karen reports you to the cops for doing snow donuts in the food lion parking lot at 2am on a saturday night
>car and money stolen

the amount of money i saved roasting virtual tires paid for a house
sux 2 suk scrub
>>
>>28229417
>doing snow donuts in the food lion parking lot
who does this except 16 year olds who just got their first shitbox
continue to cope
>>
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>>28229444
>*whoosh*
>>
>>28229449
got it, you have no counter argument
>>
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>>28229461
ok retard
>>
>>28225763
Haven't played it but the one on PS2 is the best touge experience I've had. Need to get a new set of pedals.
>>
Hard to recommend it right now unless you're a diehard fan or want the EA discount. The core highway racing has improved a ton and its cool to see this world with modern visuals, but its boring with the limited car variety. Lots of cucked modern game design bs crammed in, terrible menus, story-gated perk trees for everything, including wallet caps. 10 hours in and feel like I've barely progressed or seen anything new since hour 3. i'll probably uninstall for later if something doesn't unlock in my next session.
>>
>>28225763
I don't care. It doesn't offer anything new and Assetto Corsa is vastly superior if I want to do Wangan LARP. If I want to play an arcade game, I'll load NFSU2 or the older TXR titles. Also I will never buy an Early Access game again.
>>28229401
What's with the skinny ass tires and why is the game moving so slowly? The visuals look scuffed as fuck, is this BeamNG, or is it Assetto on cursed settings?
>>
>>28229528
>why is the game moving so slowly
cause im driving the fucking speed limit you dinkleberg
>>
>>28229528
>Assetto Corsa is vastly superior if I want to do Wangan LARP
You mean dodge traffic in arcade tier mod cars and get smashed into by teenagers using keyboard?
>>
>>28229599
and then your car flips comically out of the map and falls into a bottomless pit until the speed unit overflows and the game crashes
>>
>>28229528
If you don't have any nostalgia for txr this game isn't for you. It's a good reimagining and retains the jank that gave the original games their charm. I've been enjoying it but can't see it winning any new fans with this release.
>>
>>28225763
I like it, but I also liked the previous TXR's, it's basically Zero and 3 re-imagined right now.
Handling is more akin to Zero than 3 but without all the rubber banding nonsense of the PS2 games so you don't have to block or overthink for the first half of the game.
Main opponents are pretty easy to beat, boss' might give you some trouble, wanderers will bust your balls.
>>
>>28225763
I like it a lot, it emulates the feel of taking your shitbox out on the highway at night looking for people to dick around with, and the change in driving feel as your build progresses.

That said I am a bit dissapointed in how badly optimized it is though, I have a 5950x/4080 heavily overclocked custom loop rig and I get like 45fps at 4k full ultra with dlss turned off, and like 75-90 with it turned on. The car models look great but the world isn't detailed enough to warrant that kind performance. Even heavily modded assetto runs better on my pc
>>
>>28228417
>>28229397
This post very much proves mine.
>>
>>28228417
Zoomies are easily swooned by influencers so there is a chance
>>
>>28229843
This game is shockingly well optimized. You're getting terrible fps because you didn't set Global Illumination to medium. GI on high or ultra enables Unreal Engine 5's lumen which is Epic's own software-based raytracing. Try it and report back.
>>
>>28225763
Draws canceling your win combo is fucking retarded, it's not my fault the AI behind me fucked off
>>
How's the car modification and ricing?
Limited car selection is fine as long as you can go buck wild with ricing.
>>
>>28230982
it is in fact completely your fault
you are supposed to use the turn signals to tell the ai which junction to take
>>
>>28231002
How the fuck am I supposed to know I have to use turn signal etiquette in a videogame
>>
>>28231000
limited atm because the game is only halfway done so there are tuning parameters still locked behind upgrades we can't get
looking at the savegame file there are partslots for stuff like overfenders and mirrors that are not yet available to change.
>>
>>28231000
It's a demo, car list is progression gated, skill point gated, money gated all at once. Car parts are severely limited, most likely by choice for early access.
>>
>>28229945
its only maybe a little bit better, with dlss off im getting 39-50fps with the illumination on medium, with dlss on it was 95ish
>>
>>28231023
i have a 2080 and i get 120 fps on high and like 20 on ultra
there is some extra shit going on there that isn't quite done.
if you really want the rtx you can just enable it at lower specs with universal unreal unlocker
>>
>>28225763
>>>/vg/
Fuck off back to your containment board.
>>
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>>28231043
you're 15 years too late for that, faggot

>>>http://www.reddit.com
go back
>>
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Night-Runners: Prologue beats this game by miles and its only a demo. From the customization to the feel, even the soundtrack. It's only a shame the lack of real brand licenses. And seeing all the car models that are to come, I can't fucking wait

I advise anyone interested in these games even the slighest bit to give it a try, its only a demo and its free on steam. Getting a race is a bit clunky in the beginning but you get used to it fast.
>>
>>28231305
Customisation sure, but that's the only thing nightrunners has over txr.
Sense of speed is stupid, 100kph may as well be 250kph. The phonk edit vhs style is pure cringe. The map is shit, impossible to navigate, and races starting from a dead start in the middle of the highway in the ONCOMING lane is so utterly braindead retarded that I can't even. Not to mention the physics suck. But the ONE and ONLY thing NR has physics wise is the ability to do burnouts and donuts.
>>
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>>28231305
nightrunners plays like shit dude
>wild FOV swings to make the cars look "fast" because unity's physics tickrate is too low to actually support cars doing over 120 actual mph without glitches
>bad handling and drivetrain modelling (dev skill issue)
>bland and lazy copy of the shuto, is mostly tunnel with small bits of undetailed cityscape
>driving on american side of the road when game is supposed to be set in japan
>overplayed depressioncore vaporwave aesthetic


the things it does good are the first-person car modding and uhhhhhh that's about it really, there's noting redeeming about the actual racing, it's streamerbait for busriders.

TXR on the other hand is actually a fun racing game first and foremost, it drives better and it looks better, it just lacks the My Summer Car-esque tuning system going for a much more streamlined arcade approach which ends up working better imo. nightrunners tuning system was somewhat clunky and took too much time to do simple things. TXR's map is also the real thing with all its challenging turns.
>>
>>28225784
data scrapers have found tons of references to honda, so its save to assume honda will be in the game
>>
>>28229585
>im driving the fucking speed limit
>passes several cars
>can't stay in lane or between the lines
>????
What about my other questions?
>>28229599
>arcade tier mod cars
I don't touch dumpster tier No Hesi cars or any other diarrhea quality mods.
>smashed into by teenagers using keyboards
Never had this issue but that's probably because I don't play with randoms.
>>28229607
Haven't had this issue in years.
>>28229671
Yep, I got into TXR late so there's no nostalgia for me.
>>
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>>28225763
For me, it's Need for Speed.
>>
I want to like this games but I find highway racing very boring. I wish there circuits or touge maps.
>>
>>28231503
Buy it so they have incentive to make a touge game again. They have made spin-offs in the past: Tokyo X-Treme Racer Drift
>>
>>28225763
Genki is always based.

I play shutoko games since I was a kid (met the series with arcade wangan midnight R about 2002 or something)

every single game is based this or that way.

and they just saved racing genre with this release. Wish EA can produce another great NFS in style of NFS II or III with real and concept cars in great creative tracks and environment.
>>
>>28229408
they have personalities. and rolling guy No.4 exactly does that lel
>>
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>>28225763
I have one, literally one question.

CAN I TURN OFF TAA?!
I will not fucking buy it if it has force TAA!
I don't care if the game gives me a handjob while I drive!
>>
What car is this?
>>
>>28231816
Looks like a Volvo V40 desu
>>
>>28231816
cadillac?
>>
>>28231816
toyota mark x
its common for cars in japan to have their own unique badge for the model, people know the GTR for its unique "GTR" badge, but the lower trim older skylines also have their own unique badge
>>
>>28231828
>TXR
>anything not JDM
Ahahahahahahaha
>>
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>>28225763
>pirate game to check it out
>played every previous title
>get to car dealer
>remix of the original bgm plays
>>
>>28225763
>read steam reviews
>zoomers hate it because there's no "sick mawds"
>complains about lack of faggy wide body kits and stance
>at least there's neons
Zoomers get the rope
>>
Should I play txr3 before buying this?
>>
>>28231816
Toyota Mark X
>>
>>28231852
Wouldn't hurt but it'll take awhile to get through.
>>
>>28231852
If you don't like old jank then it might sour your experience before even setting foot in 2025
>>
it's fun but they fucked up the canadian launch by not submitting the trademark paperwork until 2 days before it launched so I had to pirate
>>
does this game have the mk2 supra
>>
>>28231888
Nope, only the 3rd and 4th gen right now
>>
>>28231852
every game in this series is obnoxiously long
>>
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>>28225763
I"M SO EXCITED !!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iwBM_YB1sE
I hope they have a Z31 like the previous games.
>>
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>>28231443
Love me some live action cut-scenes.
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>>28231870
Ohhh, is that why I get this message?
>>
>>28231440
oh just kill yourself norville
>>
>>28231791
yes but it breaks some light lenses like on the nb

>>28231718
they have personalities but they all have the "can't get close to rear of player" bug with the singular exception of cars that massively overpower yours. even those will brake and check up if you swerve in front and refuse to slipstream to pass you.
>>
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>>28227996
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc_3YrctnRY
>>
>progression makes you stick with one car for a while and develop a connection with it, instead of giving you five new supercars per hour like forza
based as fuck
>>
>>28232650
Real
>>
>>28229408
>hits divider
Classic TXR move.
>>28231852
>whirlwind fanfare
>>
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>>28233104
whirlwind fanfare isn't an issue on pcsx2
>>
post gear ratios
>>
>>28225763
For 30 euros its a good buy, Ill get to drive on Japanese highways and mod a jdm to my liking. Nothing serious, just a plain drive with some old remixed music. A lot of people wont get it but it does the job for me. I'll never own any of those 1990s jdms because boomers made non beaters inflate into 50k. I'm not that rich.
>>
>>28233265
>boomers made non beaters inflate into 50k
I will never forgive them
>>
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>>28225763
Nearly 9 hours in and it's a resounding "s'alright" from me.

Good points
>cheap
>love the way it looks
>doesn't take up 100+ gigabytes of my SSD
>driveable area is one huge seamless map, unlike the segmented original
>soundtrack is kino and fits the vibe to a tee
>car sounds are pretty decent
>actual progression where you have to work your way up form the bottom
>character art is pretty nice despite lacking any detail
>can mash through start up without having to watch a 5 hour long logo introduction

Neutral points
>handling is fine, but kinda twitchy and "rubbery" feeling
>car selection is limited, but varied
>there is a story, but it's kind of lifeless and lacking personality
>like the car selection, the customisation options are limited, but still kinda varied
>unlocking cars requires using the separate "BP" currency, as well as cash to buy, which seems a bit redundant to me
>can challenge and race every random traffic vehicle you can see, which is kinda fun, but ultimately doesn't add much to the experience
>shitloads of "engrish" translation, but that's kind of the charm? I'm 50/50 on it

Bad points
>near chase cam is way too low and close to be useful, far chase cam makes you feel like you're driving an RC car
>AI is piss easy to deal with
>skills/perks are entirely pointless, driver levels and cars are the only truly meaningful uses for BP
>wallet limit seems entirely pointless
>menu controls with controller are very fucky. can use the sticks or direction buttons to navigate some menus, but not others, forcing you to use the cursor at times.
>can't change the colour of my soft top. I want a tan top, goddamn it :(

And the absolute worst things for me, which is a big issue because it's kind of the whole point of TXR
>highways are incredibly boring to drive on
>races are pretty cut and shut, there's not much skill involved thanks to the linear nature of the map and driving

cont.
>>
>>28233329
cont.

Overall I do kinda like the game and most of the things surrounding the core gameplay, but it's that core gameplay that I just don't find all that engaging. It's incredibly monotonous and lacks any real substance, and what little story there is is pretty cringe worthy. Obviously it's all supposed to be a bit camp, but it just doesn't endear itself to me at all. The game is a decent time waster, but not something I'm gagging at the bit to play. I'm glad it exists, though, and I hope Genki add more to it. In spite of my mixed review, I do want to play more of it as and when I have nothing better to do.
>>
>>28233329
>I want a tan top, goddamn it
You are a sexual deviant.
>>
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>>28233369
Damn right I am
>>
Went from the ZC33S to RPS13 and regretting my second choice. Hopefully I'm not in it for too long.
>>
>>28233881
Fix up the gearing on the silvia and it'll be night and day.
>>
>>28233883
I guess. Any suggestions for ratios?
>>
>>28233901
Lower final gear for better acceleration.
>>
>>28232645
I barely come here anymore and don't know who that is.
>>28233329
Nice screenshot. Kinda had me tempted to check it out until you mentioned not being able to change the soft top color. But also...
>Arcade racing game has twitchy handling
>Picking a slow car to do highway racing
What did you expect?
>>
>>28234038
i think that guy owns an NA in the same colour. also look at his stats on the left.
tbg i kind of want to buy this game just for the NB.
>>
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>>28234038
>Arcade racing game has twitchy handling
Being twitchy in and of itself isn't a bad thing, but the rubbery-ness on top really makes the whole experience feel very odd. It's not *bad* per se, hence why I put it in the neutral section, but it certainly took some getting used to. It also feels like the car is at the end of a pendulum, and that the steering pivot point is around where the X is in pic rel. Very strange.

>Picking a slow car to do highway racing
The thing about games with progression is that you don't have a choice in the beginning, but more than that, speed doesn't make it *that* much more fun, I just don't like highway racing. It's essentially a straight-ish line where you avoid the odd piece of traffic, with only the occasional corner to break it up. One thing I did forget to mention is that it's quite annoying to have to drive for miles on end just to get to the next race. Again, I can imagine that's exactly what makes TXR so good for some people, but for me it's just monotonous, and the map just isn't interesting enough to me to make those free roaming bits fun.

>>28234321
>i think that guy owns an NA in the same colour
Indeed I do.

>tbg i kind of want to buy this game just for the NB.
If you have the cash, then I honestly think the game is worth it and you should get it. For all my complaining, it is an enjoyable game, and everything surround the driving is pretty damn solid.
>>
>>28233329
>>there is a story, but it's kind of lifeless and lacking personality
The story is minimal on purpose, it's the worldbuilding that carries the game instead (all the tidbits of bio and dialogue).
>>can challenge and race every random traffic vehicle you can see, which is kinda fun, but ultimately doesn't add much to the experience
This one is more out of necessity, they have to convince Toyota and Honda that it's not illegal street racing and the way to do that is to make each traffic participant a racer.
>>wallet limit seems entirely pointless
It's to softlock some cars behind the price tag higher than the cap, as well as to make you spend money.
>>
>>28234321
>tbg i kind of want to buy this game just for the NB.
I half did it for this reason alone, fellow NB enjoyer.
>>
>>28234526
it’s definitely better than 3’s solution where every single traffic vehicle was a bright yellow OFFICIAL Genki van but that didn’t convince Honda either
>>
>>28234526
>The story is minimal on purpose, it's the worldbuilding that carries the game instead (all the tidbits of bio and dialogue).
I know, and that's fine, but this isn't Dark Souls; the world is the one we live in, and the plot is incredibly shallow. I don't begrudge it for it's plot (or lack there of), nor do I think it needs to be any deeper than it already is, but it's not a selling point or a positive. It's just the cheap glue that gives the bare minimum motivation for going out racing night after night, and there's nothing wrong with that.

>It's to softlock some cars behind the price tag higher than the cap
If you're referring to the leader cars that unlock after you beat them, then I don't see why they need to be soft locked via currency. It can't be for balance, because my car is already better, I had to beat them to unlock them after all, so why must I be denied from buying inferior vehicles? As for regular cars, it gets arguably worse than wallet limitations. It starts with "Beat [RIVAL] to unlock this car", which is fine, that's perfectly good motivation to keep you in the gameplay loop, but that only unlocks the ability for you to unlock the car with BP, one of your two forms of currency. After you've done that, you must then then go out and use your OTHER form of currency to finally buy the car that you've now had to unlock twice. It's a needlessly complex system that offers seemingly nothing to the player, and does nothing to balance to game, either. I have shitloads of BP and Credits stocked up, even with these systems, so why all the red tape? It's just extra button presses in the menu for what appears to be no reason. A very odd system indeed.
>>
it's arcade game that actually looks the part since nips actually made it

the real crime is i have to cheese the boss with the rx8, the best car at this point in the game, that's required to unlock half the roster - only for devs to say "early access come back for more content"
>>
>>28234554
Yeah the whole "future blocked off Tokyo" with anachronistic depiction of mid 2000s shutoko with modern cars is likely part of their effort to distance themselves from depicting actual street racing by turning the highway into an alternate reality racetrack, kinda like C1GP but not as blatantly
>>
>>28234784
You don't really have to cheese it with the RX8, the location you start the race in is much more important.
>>
>>28234526
>>28234554
Honda and Toyota were in NFS Underground. Honda wasn't in TXR3 because of engine swaps allegedly.
>>
>>28235092
money talks
>>
Part of me suspects management is just shitty that nobody really wants their new shit in games. Fuck them.
>>
>>28234344
you're just getting trolled by the gran turismo 4 bolted-to-the-ass camera

cars have a fuckload of grip but the base physics are pretty realistic. if you let tires wear out to nothing, oversteer starts to work. the more power your car has the sooner the loss of grip becomes a problem. an easy test of vidya car physics is to simply try a j-turn (reverse 180 spin) because racing games that use a lot of arcadey physics helpers and "fake" car handling will generally not allow you to do one. TXR does.
that diagram you posted is not at all how the cars work or behave, but it feels like that due to the fact the camera barely moves. Gran Turismo 4 has the exact same problem.
>>
>>28235108
>the more power your car has the sooner the loss of grip becomes a problem.
also your car's mass and drivetrain matter
my gto eats tires much faster than my nb, and it becomes much harder to drive sooner with less total wear
>>
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How can my Dejected Angel be this cute and funny?
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>>28235011
sort of, you need a car and tune with enough acceleration to ram them off the line and that's enough to freeze them up

the back up was enough to be ahead of them and block them there out
>>
i wish there was a penalty for losing races. winning by repeatedly challenging drivers and waiting for them to crash takes some of the joy of winning away. i need to feel pain and anger
>>
>>28235479
there is no worse punishment than getting told your new nickname is "loser"
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>>28225763
it's based
>>28225803
for an early access game there is a ton of content. i played it the entire past weekend and still have a ton of things to do.
also i've only come across a single bug in that time and it's very minor (the "unread" icon on a on the menu won't disappear even though i read everything).
on the steam page it says they plan to release the full game in 4 months so they don't plan to milk EA for years like a lot of other games do.
>>28227571
>>28227901
calling it free is inaccurate but they plan to increase the price when it leaves EA so it is at a discount.
>>
>>28235394
>Dejected Angel is a qt3.14
What would Midnight Rose and Shadow Eyes be like?
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>>28229346
i liked wangan midnight and initial d but i wouldn't say i'm a hardcore weeb or anything. i rarely watch anime.
it just has a really addictive sense of progression, anyone can enjoy it.
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>>28225763
HOLY SHIT
AN ACTUAL SHUTOKO RACER
ON PC
I WON'T HAVE TO PAY SHIT ON ARCADES ANYMORE
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>>28225763
nah I'm good
I'll stick to my arcade cabs
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>>28235845
Yeah. Have fun playing on a cabinet with those snot-nosed kids played on, and the hardcore shitlords who broke the damned shifter. Oh, and the wheel? Force feedback broken. Enjoy paying up the nose too per play.
>>
>>28235855
At my local arcade it's $2.50 a game. And have to wait in a line of 6+ sweaty smelly people.
>>
>>28233297
It's more likely gen X and elder millennials onboarded by gran turismo. Though finding an unmolested 90s Supra, Evo or Skyline is like rocking horse shit now so maybe it's just market forces at work.



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