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File: ted in snow.png (155 KB, 259x287)
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It literally means "you aren't allowed to directly interact with nature as a living, breathing human being as your ancestors did, you have to treat planet Earth like it's a museum and you're just an unwelcome guest". It's the most extreme and bizarre shit I've ever heard, and the people espousing this philosophy are always the most un-buschrafty neon red and blue polyester clad yuppie urbanites who are the most dependent upon industrial society and agriculture which together constitute 99.9% of the total human threat to the global ecosystem. These people literally think some guy in the woods cutting down a tree with a hatchet and taking a shit is some kind of existential threat. Presumably they also believe men can have babies.
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>>2715240
I'm not reading all that, but I think your baitpost will probably get (You)s, so I'm here to rate it.
4/10 on the bait it's not subtle but it'll work
Could've had more effort
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>>2715240
>Presumably they also believe men can have babies.
Don't make your bait this obvious next time.
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>>2715243
I found one!
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>>2715240
are you retarded? just don't leave trash in the fucking woods
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Leave no trace has been taught by the Boy Scouts for the past century.
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>>2715240
Pretty much just means dont leave your plastic garbage all around
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>>2715281
You mean the faggot tranny rape scouts?
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>>2715282
"Leave no trace" teaches that merely existing without direct reliance on industrial consumable supplies portaged in is destroying creation.
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>>2715285
I don't even bring anything that comes in plastic wrappers. You do.
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>>2715287
Why do people invent people in their head to get mad about?
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>>2715290
Because of ominous threats they catch wind of on a regular basis through various channels that cause them anxiety
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>>2715288
>seething autism
ok. makes sense
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>>2715282
>pic
Except Indians are known for periodically burning entire forests down, which turned them into savannas and encouraged edible plants and animals to live there.
Nature isn't some perfect harmony that you can just leave alone. If you leave a piece of meadow alone it will eventually turn into a shitty shaded forest with no life. I'm sure we can strike a balance between leaving nature completely alone VS covering it under a slab of concrete. Unfortunately today's people are too retarded to think critically instead of picking some side in an imaginary war.
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>>2715294
The middle ground is called "doing whatever the fuck I want"
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>>2715240
Leave no trace just means don't litter and cut down live trees for fire wood you obtuse faggot.
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>>2715307
But yet YOU are allowed to chop down a whole continent just to support unlimited population growth where everyone is working more than stone age people despite every advancement in technology? Go fuck yourself. If you want to save the environment then stick a Glock in your mouth and pull the trigger.
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>>2715307
your a tard with the soul of a turd
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>>2715307
But Europe wasn't enough. You had to cross the ocean and try to turn a whole new continent into wall-to-wall private property just like the shithole you came from. You claimed that a carpenter from ancient Palestine told you to do it and gave you permission to murder anyone who got in the way. Only the mountains stopped you.
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>>2715310
>>2715311
>>2715316
take your meds
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>>2715307
You chopped down half the rainforest in less than 100 years to build ships to kill each other with and enslave and rape even more people around the world and then tell me I'm not allowed to cut down one tree to keep myself warm or sheltered. There's nowhere in the world where I'm allowed to live by my own hand without being a part of your system because you claim ownership of the entire world and transform it with deforestation and agriculture to enforce your claim, which accomplishes nothing but increasing the population and leaving them all as miserable and wretched as anyone who lived before them. But I'm the bad guy for pitching a tent in the wrong spot. My only goal in life is to live long enough to see your kind exterminated from the face of the planet. Maybe the vaccine conspiracy theories were bullshit, it remains to be seen, but if that doesn't do it then I promise you that one way or another we are going to see 90% of you executed by 2050 at the absolute latest. The technology that you yourself created will end you.
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>>2715325
Based.
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>>2715288
yup.
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>>2715240
You can do that. You just gotta do it on private land. Public land is public, everyone deserves to experience it the way it was and hopefully always shall be. You do not inherit it from your ancestors, but lease it from your descendents in perpetuity
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>>2715325
>You chopped down half the rainforest in less than 100 years
holy shit I'm amazing
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>>2715346
What the fuck are you talking about?
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>>2715310
>>2715316
>>2715325
>Trying to shame white people based on values you only have because white people beat them into you.
kek.
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>>2715346
>Public land is public, everyone deserves to experience it the way it was and hopefully always shall be
Sure, but the land has changed radically from how it was several decades ago. Most of the forest on the east coast used to be farmland which is why you will find old rock walls and small concrete structures in the middle of the woods. It went from abandoned farmland to a meadow to woodland and now it's shitty overgrown hardwood forest because Smokey Bear says "fire is le bad" and God forbid you cut down a couple trees. These areas have a deep seedbank full of flowers just waiting for the moment to spring up when a few trees fall and sunlight finally reaches the ground again.
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>>2715240
>cutting down a tree with a hatchet
I would love to catch someone doing that red-handed
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>>2715353
You retarded, boy?
>>
It makes sense to clean up your trash but people take it way too far. Anyone who thinks you should pack out your trash instead of just burning it is delusional. Same with people think you should pack out your shit instead of just burying it. But if you leave food wrappers and shit all over the ground your a huge faggot.
>>
Get fucked larper. If every faggots who went /out/ was allowed to cut down a sapling for a camp there would be so many shitty clearings that you idiots made, complete with broken down abandoned camp sites with an old tarp strewn everywhere. The point in protected wilderness areas is so people don't come across your fucking mess everywhere, it's a way to get /out/ of the fucked up world that you're describing and into an untouched one. You want to destroy some of that peace and quiet for your larp, get fucked.

I came across some wankers sapling hut in one of my favorite spots recently, really killed the whole mood of the place knowing some cunt has been living there shitting it up with his schizophrenia.
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>>2715325
honestly has a point tho, but its not limited to white people. Also bet this is one of the 90% white "native americans" types
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I leave no trace other than cairns that I like to build sometimes.
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>>2715373
>burning trash
I don't like my campsite to smell like the burn pits in afghanistan. I only burn paper containers, the rest I take out with me.
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>>2715240
just means pick up your garbage you dumb fuck
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>>2715358
>>2715406

I never said "white people". What I said applies to ANY culture that practices cancerous population growth that makes freedom impossible for individuals. Lots of them are white, lots of them are Asian, lots of them are black (although blacks need help to achieve this). Ted K himself was white. Most of the human race should be exterminated like cockroaches. The way we achieve this with fairness and dignity is to merely smash the pillars of industrialization to introduce famine and hardship that will separate the weak from the strong. Everyone will have the chance to survive, but only those who make the choice to do so will. This process is already in motion due to powers beyond my understanding, of which multitudes of conspiracy theories are proliferated. I am not part of that power structure, but I am also not opposed to it. Our focus today should be to simply prepare ourselves. Politics have become irrelevant. From here we can only watch.
>>
I refuse to packout my poo or pee. Everything else leaves with me.
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>>2715700
I defecate in the river as nature intended.
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>>2715346
public doesnt mean you own it. it just means its not private. their are still statutes for that land and they do inforce it obviously, or there would be caravans of hundreds of stinking bums causing fires, disease and rampant crime
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>>2715240
i mean you are right but not for the reason you stated because you are an idiot.
The issue with letting humans chop shit down and modify nature is not just one person doing it but thousands, millions doing it like locusts.
If you have ever been to a quiet popular spot and seen it get "popular" and it gets trashed by hordes of people just being people.

How you are right though, there are ways of interacting with the environment that don't damage it. And the people that run parks get a little control crazy when it doesnt make sense.
They will even hypocritically damage it themselves
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>>2715458
we don't smash industrialisation. What we do is make industrialisation redundant
The reason the world is shit os the filthy wagie class that desires nothing more than to be cattle and drag all humans into its pen.
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>>2715717
>There would be people existing outside of the system

oh no
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>>2715724
That proves that overpopulation is the problem, not laws or behavior. If chopping down trees is fundamentally wrong then all agricultural land in the world must be given back to nature.
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>>2715767
I get where you're coming from, but 90% of these people are literal subhumans dumping trash in fire pits and leaving abandoned shantytowns everywhere.
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>>2715777
"Subhumans" don't have the ability to go more than a mile from a trailhead or more than 10 feet off of a trail so I've never given a shit about this. I don't care if there's litter near a road.
>>
99% of the time 'leave no trace' just means 'dont leave trash and smoldering embers everywhere'
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>>2715294
>Nature isn't some perfect harmony that you can just leave alone

Are you retarded? Yes you can, it has been happening for millions of years
>>
>>2715887
I don't know how people like that think animals survived long enough for us to see them. I've heard that attitude before and it's utterly insane. Indians did do controlled burns and land management, sure, but their population was extremely low and most of the continent was untouched. The frontiersman found so much wild game that they could easily feed themselves just walking shooting whatever moved with black powder weapons while carrying canvas and leather gear and cast iron. They actually discovered "rabbit starvation", meaning there were so many fucking rabbits that there existed a temptation to just live off of them. I've seen 3 rabbits this whole year. Nature is better off without humans.
>>
Capatin autismo: It doesn't mean "don't alter the environment by introducing more carbon dioxide by exhaling", it's saying to not cut down a bunch of shit you don't need to, build retarded shit all over the place, and leave garbage everywhere. It's not as big a deal if you live in maine or some shit, but in more populated areas a natural area can end up looking like a city park when too many people are around
>what will me making a heckin cool bushcraft shelter like I saw on youtube do?
Nothing, but if everyone does it, shit will be fucked in 50 years. Use your brain, dummy anon
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>>2715905
this
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>>2715902
>They actually discovered "rabbit starvation", meaning there were so many fucking rabbits that there existed a temptation to just live off of them.
That's not how that works, you fucking retard. Rabbit starvation happens when the only thing you can find to eat is rabbits and you die from not eating enough fat. People don't just starve to death because they can't be bothered to eat something else.
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>>2715905
That's not what it used to mean, but bloggers at REI have changed the meaning into something like that and turned leave no trace into a cult. Nowadays, if you build a campfire or shit in a cathole, you're pretty much just as bad as strip miners and clear cut loggers.
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>>2715373
Based garbage burner. I think this is mostly the norm these days. I mostly hike around the rocky mountains and whenever I encounter someone else at a campsite they always burn their trash too. Its mostly people who just go on dayhikes that pack out their trash, which is fine because they are not carrying it over multiple days.
>>
I've read about how people used to live in my country. It wasn't quite "leave no trace", but there were key differences.
Refuse goes where refuse is intended to go. You do not strew it here or there because "nature will take care of it". That attracts animals where they shouldn't be.
You don't piss in the same place twice, it will stink up the place. But you also do not piss in or near moving water - that water was clean enough to drink and should be kept that way.
Shitting was done in specific spots as well, and you never piss where you shit.
You take what you need, but only as much as you need. There were far less people back then, so the impact of a fraction of those people taking things from nature was far lower than if the same fraction did that today.
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>>2715905
Exactly. I'm not allowed to live. That's basically what you just said. That means it's either me or you. Good luck!
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>>2715915
I can't find ANY rabbits!
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>>2715768
I wish covid hadn't been a nothingburger and actually did kill every fat and/or old person. The world would have been a much better place for it.
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>>2715922
And what have we gained from the population growth? Are we living in a utopia where everyone is working 5 hours a week and there's nobody homeless or who can't afford healthcare?
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>>2715930
I felt the same way. Now I feel the same way about the vaccine. Anthony Fauci and Alex Jones are both lying pieces of shit.
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>>2715922
>you never piss where you shit
have you ever tried to take a shit without simultaneously pissing? i'm not convinced it's even possible

>>2715887
true, it's not like nature needs indians to get rid of forests. there are things called honey mushrooms that are more than capable of killing trees

>>2715785
subhumans, aka bushcrafters, routinely go off trail in order to cut down enough trees to make a shelter for a night or weekend, instead of just bringing a tent
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>>2715933
I have the right to make the decision to not live in your cities or pay your taxes and rent or participate in your system at all and to practice the skills needed to leave your world using the resources that God made and sold to nobody. People like you are literally the only reason I carry a gun.
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>>2715932
Me too. I keep holding out hope that all vaxxies die, but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen. Nothing ever happens.
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>>2715944
That raises the question of what the vaccine actually was. It's undeniable that it doesn't protect anyone from any disease and was never intended to. Yet at the same time, it doesn't appear to be ab"bioweapon" per se, at least not in the sense the conspiracy celebrities claimed it to be. I almost wonder if the old 2021 5G control grid/nano machine theory was right all along.
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>>2715929
Skill issue, I see rabbits all the time.
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>>2715953
Not on public land in the East you don't
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>>2715932
>>2715944
>>2715945
>muh alex jones
>muh apocalypse
It was always just a shitty vaccine that does more harm than good. It has killed millions of people and critically injured many more. If you actually thought it was going to have a mortality rate above 1% and that it was some planned genocide scheme you're a retard. That doesn't change the fact that it's by far the most harmful vaccine/medical intervention in history, and that its creators and everyone who pushed it need to be imprisoned.
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>>2715960
But why was it pushed so hard when covid clearly never even existed? Even if it did, nobody can argue in good faith that it was that dangerous. Something doesn't add up.

Someone with power and money beyond our comprehension decided that they wanted to stick a needle in everyone on the planet. They hatched a plan to make that happen. I want to know why. The official narrative is wrong. The conspiracy narrative is wrong. Your narrative is wrong.
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>>2715960
I never thought it was some planned genocide, but there was an inkling of me that hoped the skitzo/Jones crew was right for once, kek. It was obviously just a rushed botch job cash grab to capitalize on the fear, and judging by the largest upward transfer of wealth in U.S history that it instigated, it did the job well.
I know a few people personally that got fucked up badly because of it.
>>
>>2715962
>I want to know why.
Different anon, but I'd place my bets on general mismanagement and retardation. I've always felt that many conspiracy theorists give specific bodies - especially governments - too much credit.

The entire situation around it was handled so surprisingly poorly. Remember the lab in Wuhan where it came from? That that was first labelled some wild conspiracy theory, but then we had that complete 180 of "oh lol it was true guess we were wrong"?

I think it's a matter of the gears of bureaucracy turning so slowly that governments as we know them in the western world are incapable of responding to actual crises, or do so poorly.
>>
>>2715962
>But why was it pushed so hard when covid clearly never even existed?
Covid did/does exist, it was just overblown. They used it as an opportunity to enrich themselves/their friends (media, politicians, corporations were all in it together) and also to justify restrictions on our freedoms. Even though we didn't end up with permanent vaxx mandates thanks to huge amounts of resistance, that was certainly on the agenda.
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>>2715927
You're saying things that make you upset, attributing it to me, and then getting upset. "Basically what I said" is >>2715905. Try harder

>>2715932
Based moderate skeptic

>>2715916
Which is a bummer. All the more reason to remove REIfags.

Oh, don't forget you're on native land, chud :^) or whatever
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>>2715942
You're a larper and a hypocrite. You're just as dependent on the system as anyone else, or did you use your crafting table to build a computer that's powered by copium?
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>>2715942
>participate in your system at all
>using the resources that God made and sold to nobody
he typed into his electronic device
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>>2715968
That was really witty, anon. How did you come up with that?
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>>2715965
That doesn't make sense. Everyone in the world with any measure of authority and responsibility all made the exact same decisions in unison. They all obeyed some kind of agenda. Someone or something was making them do it.
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>>2715968
I only use phones.

I was born into the system against my will. I will crawl out on my own terms. If you have a problem with that then I hope you like lead.
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>>2715971
Or they're what they are: slimy little politicians doing their little under-the-table handshakes. For what it's worth, I don't like the one scenario more than the other.
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>>2715969
That I made a voluntary one-time payment for
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>>2715974
>God made and sold to nobody
>except this one, I bought this one
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>>2715975
Yeah, I bought something that someone else created and sold. An Indian can trade for a steel tomahawk or a rifle. That doesn't make him your slave for life.
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>>2715972
If you weren't a larping faggot, you wouldn't care enough about "the system" to be spending time shitposting online. Fuck off retard, kek.
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>>2715978
>my highly sophisticated electronic device is somehow just like a tomahawk
>i also spit a little when i talk
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>>2715978
>I HATE the System
>oh this device here? it keeps me connected to the System. you see, I need it because I enjoy posting on this anime image board
>but don't be mistaken, I HATE the System
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>>2715982
>>2715989

"The system" is a debt slavery/inflation scam that physically transforms the planet into a prison. You have no conception of what this conversation is about. You're thinking about highschool anarcho-primitivism.
>>
>>2715979
Everyone who uses the word LARP is just bitter that other people are actually making some effort to live the way they want to.
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>>2715963
You member how a certain software monopolist billionaire "retired" and put the next 10 years into healthcare "philanthropy" with a focus on vaccines? well, it just so happens that his networth doubled from doing all this charitable work while also incidentally holding mayor positions in related stocks.
Now multiply that by a whole bunch other rich people invested in pharma cooperations and add all the big cartels like amazon that were able to gain enormous marketshare from small competition actually having to shut down.
>>2715960
you misspelled trialed for crimes against humanity with the traditional settences
>>2715965
that lab had direct US funding for gain of function research with direct involvement of saint faucci the omniscent. there was no mismanagement involved, besides maybe involving biosecurity protocols by the chinese
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>>2715954
I live in Tennessee and see rabbits, as well as other wildlife, all the time on public land. It's a skill issue. Cottontails are not a rare species lmao.
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>>2716000
All hare and rabbit species are virtually extirpated from northern New England. I've lived in places with good rabbit populations before. It takes skill to hunt them. It doesn't take skill to merely see them when you're driving to work so that you know they actually exist in the area at all.
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>>2716000
You probably live in farm country, not the mountains.
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>>2716000
Upstate NY had lots of rabbits. It was challenging to stalk them with a .22 and no dogs, but you see them all the time when you live there. They're all over people's yards like squirrels and you constantly jump them at trail heads. If you've lived somewhere for months and you don't see any rabbits, then there aren't any.
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>>2716005
Wrong again, anon.
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>>2716011
The mountains at the NC border have some of the worst rabbit populations I've ever seen. Lots of deer and turkey though.
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>>2716004
They are? I see them on the side of the road sometimes here in southern Maine. Both clearly escaped domestic and the skinny rabbit shaman look of a hare.
But I see racoons, porcupine, fox, etc etc more.
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>>2716019
The seacoast region and the Western mass border of NH and VT has had decent rabbit populations. The inland and mountains have virtually none. I've had multiple locals including experienced hunters tell me they had never seen a snowshoe hare in decades, despite the states having daily bag limits of around 5 animals. 90% of all rabbits I've seen have been in the past 4 years, mainly in NY and southern VT.
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>>2716019
Eastern public land rabbit hunting is a shit show because the animals are completely adapted to living on the edges of fields on private property. They don't live in the woods. They are semi-domesticated. The only way to bag lots of rabbits while traveling is to use an air pistol and hunt behind big big stores and parking lots early in the morning. You'll never shoot a rabbit off of a hiking trail in the Appalachian region.
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>>2715887
>>2715902
>>2715933
For those millions of years there were ecosystem processes like megafauna, wildfires, fungal epidemics like that one anon said, floods, etc that regulated the ecosystem and its biodiversity. There is no harmony in nature because each organism is selfish and competitive. A tree doesn't think to itself "hey I'm shading out those cute little flowers, I'll stop growing so I can let them still have sun".

Are you going to tell this elephant to stop cutting down trees and leave no trace? We fucked up the ecosystem by making these large mammals go extinct and preventing wildfires, and now we don't want to take up the responsibility (which the indians at least did after slaughtering all those mammoths and ground sloths). Humans aren't supposed to leave nature alone, we're supposed to take care of it as if it was our garden.
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>>2716030
A new equilibrium must emerge in the absence of our activities and those of any other animals we have driven to extinction
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>>2715240
Your ancestors recognised that there were certain areas it was sacrilegious to defile. LNT in national parks is the same thing. You can use all the other public land if you want.

If you live somewhere without public land that can be freely used for bushcraft and isn't a national park then consider killing yourself and reincarnating in a less shitty place.
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>>2716103
Fuck national parks, I hate that shit. They want to make you pay to enter then pay to camp there. I aways skip buying all the permits and camp wherever I want. I always just burn my trash, usually small amounts of plastic and paper, and only cut tiny bushes/shrubs for fires. Also fuck park rangers, ive never ran into one.

National parks really rustle my jimmies. They try and gatekeep the best spots.
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>>2716111
>pay to enter
That's barbaric. Here they're mostly free.
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>>2716116
Where I am its 20 bucks (per day) to just enter and drive around and like 30 bucks a day for a permit to backcountry camp.
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>>2715990
>"the system" is what i say it is and not what you say it is
>so now it's a debt-inflation system
Go back to your first post and laugh at your own hypocrisy a little. It'll do you some good.
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>>2716169
My posts have focused on out of control population grown fueled by industrialization and economic policies, among other things. You are projecting some kind of loosely related idea onto me about technology being evil, which is a subject I have not mentioned (though technology is obviously intimately related to the problem).

I'll use any object in this world I can get my hands on as I see fit. The only thing that matters is reducing population. If you want to argue with me, great, but if you're going to argue with yourself then stop replying to me.
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>>2716169
Avoiding technology would suggest that I deliberately handicap myself due to ideology. I don't do that. I win by any means necessary. Automatic weapons could not exist without industrialization. That doesn't mean we eschew automatic weapons. Quite the contrary, it means we must stockpile them. The same goes for computers. Ideology doesn't matter when you are dead. Nobody will remember who was a "hypocrite" when billions are starving. This is real life.
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>>2716176
>if you're going to argue with yourself then stop replying
Take your own advice lmao.
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>>2716178
You are attacking positions I held almost 20 years ago in highschool and have never presented in an online debate
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>>2715373
Yeah, I just burn it.
Better than the plastic degrading into even more microplastic in some landfill.
I don't give a fuck about 5 grams of CO2 in the atmosphere.
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>>2716180
Yeah, >>2715942 sounds like a highschool level post alright.
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>>2716383
What is your actual point? That overpopulation is good? That transforming the entire planet outside of the Arctic and the deserts into manicured private property is good? You haven't laid anything out.
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>>2716424
>what is your point, these three strawmen?
My boy there's no arguing with you and we both know it. I knew it when you said you using your phone is just like an Indian and his tomahawk. Either you have no concept of the resources and sophistication required for your little device, or you do not practice what you preach. Or both. You claim you have the right not to pay your taxes and not participate in "the system" and practice whatever you think you need to practice to opt out, but you want the benefits that exact system - and those in the system - creates and is needed for. So are you a parasite or a hypocrite?

Now move the goalposts again. It's an obvious pattern.
>>
>>2715240
it depends
if its public land, then dont be a retard and shit it up beyond digging small holes, leaving small amounts of degradable waste, or hunting
if its private land, then fuck off or you'll get shot
if its your land and you spent tens of thousands of dollars on it, do whatever the fuck you want with it
>>
>>2716443
A parasite. I very plainly explained that earlier.
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>>2716443
My goalpost from my very first post was that industrial society must be sabotaged and individuals must simultaneously find their own way out. That is never ever going to happen without industrial technology itself. This is the last time I am going to explain this concept to you.
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>>2716477
industrial society shouldnt be sabotaged it should be neutered by ai and robots
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>>2716443
The benefits of the system will not exist when the system is gone. There won't be phones or computers to buy. Do you get it?
>>
>>2716443
If am kidnapped and locked in a basement, and my kidnapper makes a mistake and gives me the opportunity to take his gun away and shoot him and escape, is that hypocrisy because I used something that came from my enemy in order to achieve my goal? This appears to be the argument you are making.
>>
>>2715945
>it doesn't appear to be ab"bioweapon" per se
Wait until the new round of H1N1 hits the vaxxies and their weakened immune systems.We'll be stacking them like cord wood.
>>
>>2716004
They're definitely making a comeback.I never saw them when I was a kid,but I'm seeing them all over the place now.
>>
>>2716022
I live in New Hampshire,and I've seen rabbits at the Manchester airport a few times. It's weird,sort of like how there's suddenly shit loads of turkeys everywhere.
>>
>>2716473
>>2716477
>>2716480
>>2716484
>no I don't practice what I preach and I'm a parasite
>but that's OK because I use my phone to dismantle le system
Delusional. Are you a commie? You sound like one.
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>>2716622
Let's try this one last time

> The world is an open air prison due to overpopulation and consolidation of power among multinational corporations and global financial elites

> This situation is largely a result of the industrial revolution

> The industrial revolution made advanced technology possible

> Therefore it is somehow immoral to use technology

> Because being a moral person matters for some reason, you therefore must not use technology

This is the argument that you are attempting to attack. I have never made this argument. So if you want to attack this ideology, you should go find someone who believes in it.

Here is my position:

> The world is an open air prison due to overpopulation and consolidation of power among multinational corporations and global financial elites.

> So if you don't want to spend your life working a miserable slave labor job 50+ hours per week just to barely afford basic necessities and a third floor studio apartment with crackheads outside while billionaires think of more ways to extract value from you and deny compensation, you're going to have to figure out some way to live outside of the system of global feudalism.

> We should probably also do something to trigger the downfall of that system.

Using technology is not hypocritical. It is absolutely necessary. Without GPS and satellite imagery alone you would not even be able to find locations to live off-grid without paying hundreds of thousands of dollars in property costs and taxes. You should use everything you can get your hands on. This is total war and reality doesn't give a fuck about your ideology. Go and use stone tools and see how well that works out for you. Good luck making your own glasses. If you still do not understand, then I'm finished with you.
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>>2716636
>please argue against the things I've now laid out for you instead of my original post
No thanks. Your original flat-out retarded post is much funnier than your new maladaptive "total war" daydreaming post.
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>>2715295
based
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>>2716638
You have never made an argument against anything I have actually posted. You have called me a hypocrite for using technology. Hypocrisy means to act contrary to the values or beliefs one has promoted. I have never presented the idea that using technology is bad. Technology is essential to achieve our goals and I have understood this since the end of the Bush administration.
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I have reviewed previous posts and have realized that I might have been vague about certain concepts or terms. Let me clarify what I mean when I say things like "The System" by just summarizing it's operation with brevity suitable for 4chan

> The state lays claim to all inhabitable land on planet Earth

> It makes it illegal to harvest natural resources without purchasing property. Food gathering is allowed only to a very limited extent. Camping (basically existing) is heavily regulated

> These claims and laws are enforced unofficially through population growth, agriculture, and urbanization, which physically transforms the planet into a panopticon and causes natural resources to cease to exist in many areas

> This makes it both legally and often physically impossible to EXIST without purchasing or renting property and goods and services

> Unlimited inflation renders the value of property greater than what the average person afford

> This process thereby involuntarily turns the entire human population into what are essentially slaves of the state and the corporate powers and other entities behind the state

THIS is "The System" as I see it, or at least my best description of it currently.
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>>2716643
>you've never argued against anything I posted
>proceeds to outline a diluted version of my argument
No, but I think you need me to very explicitly state why your previous posts are wrong and also very funny.

It's that you're arguing against participating in "your system" (which you later specify is a "debt-inflation system") from whatever device you're using. The electronics industry specifically is built on conflict and slavery. You can look up "conflict minerals" but I'm going to assume you're aware of that.

Then you go on to argue that "buying something (an electronic device) that someone else created and sold" is just like an Indian trading for a tomahawk, and that this doesn't make him "your slave for life". Which, in practice, it absolutely does - not the buyer, not the seller, but the producer. Again: conflict minerals, forced labor. You're propping up the system you're supposedly against. That's why all of this is funny to me and why I call you a hypocrite.

That's completely ignoring what it took to get to the point as societies where we're able to create such things. Whether the ends justify the means - I won't comment on that.

In other respects I think we fundamentally agree. From an ideological point of view, I believe men are born with inalienable rights, including the right to hunt, catch or gather your own food and erect a roof over your head.
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>>2716842
>The electronics industry specifically is built on conflict and slavery.

That is not my problem. If those Chinese people assembling electronic devices for $2 per day want out of the system then they need to crawl out of it by their bleeding fingernails just as I am. If something that I made at my shitty job in industrial society can help them to navigate that process then they should buy it or better yet steal it.

>You're propping up the system you're supposedly against.

This is unavoidable to a limited extent. What's more important is that I don't pay rent or insurance and soon I won't even be paying income tax. What's even more important than that is that in some European countries they are straight up banning fertilizer. Clearly someone far more powerful than I am has the same idea as me.

>That's completely ignoring what it took to get to the point as societies where we're able to create such things.

I don't care.

>including the right to hunt, catch or gather your own food and erect a roof over your head.

You are never ever going to do that without industrial technology. You were not trained from birth to support yourself by a self-reliant community with division of labor in a pristine environment in a world with only 1.5 billion people who don't have any health problems due to infant mortality weeding defective specimens from the gene pool without intervention for thousands of years. Even if you wanted to spend your life hunting with an ash longbow you made with a stone hatchet you are not going to learn these skills without the Internet or at the very least printed publications that themselves could never have made it into your hands without mass organization schemes fueling overpopulation and deforestation.

You and I are not the same. You believe in ideology. I do not. You think the way I did as a young Jehovah's Witness.
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>>2716866
Well, godspeed anon. This shit was funny but this is just sad. There's too much there for me that I find wrong and/or distasteful to even start to comment on. Hope you grow out of it.
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OP, you are a child. We know this because you wrote a paragraph of self-centred twaddle. We know this because you posted your drivel with a picture of a dead terrorist. You are going to grow older and wiser and realize just how wrong you are. You are going to cringe at your idolization of Kaczynski. Ideally you will do this sooner then later. Until the, try not to make to much of a fool of yourself.
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>>2716875
Only experience can teach you that you must make a choice between acting to conform to a belief system and acting to achieve a goal. I clearly cannot do so.
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>>2716879
Do you actually have anything to say?
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>>2715294
> Except Indians are known for periodically burning entire forests down
So does nature
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>>2716887
Some species of trees like the Jack Pine actually require exposure to fire in order to reproduce. Smoky the Bear was full of shit all along.
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>>2716884
I know you love online dick-swinging about age and experience, but you're an extremely flawed human being holding opposing viewpoints and I don't have the willpower to act like your dad for long enough to explain all this to you. Not just because I don't enjoy typing out long paragraphs or arguing with strangers, but because of your classic retorts including "I don't care" and "This is unavoidable, but what's more important is ..." or "You were not trained (...) in a pristine environment". There is nothing at all to be gained from this, you are impossible to reason with.

With some introspection, you can re-read your own posts and draw your own conclusions.
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>>2716893
>holding opposing viewpoints

Even if this were true, why does this matter to you? I have not paid rent in almost five years. I am more concerned with living my philosophy than convincing strangers that it is internally consistent on a logical level. 15 years ago when I was struggling to convince myself that the Bible was actually true, that was when I gave a shit about stuff like that. Winning arguments is fun but escaping the system is much better.
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>>2716900
Genuinely: I did not ask. How is any of this relevant? I don't need your life story.

Are you alright?
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>>2716901
You keep accusing me of hypocrisy. The definition of hypocrisy is to act contrary to the values that one expresses.

What are my values?
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>>2716902
All the best anon. Hope you get it fixed, whatever it is.
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>>2716904
Could you just explain to me how not owning a phone is going to help me in any way? Just do this one last thing for me before you leave.
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>>2716904
Did you ever read the "Naked into the Wilderness" series by John McPherson? Really great material about things like stone tool making, bow making, cordage, he even made a dugout canoe with only stone tools. I loved that stuff when I was a kid. You should check it out, it's right up your alley. The whole collection is only 35.99 on Amazon.
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>>2715725
>i hate poor people
>too lazy to work or provide for himself whatsoever so he leaches off of others and calls them lazy

Lol
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>>2717008
>Yall
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>>2717008
When I see a nuclear strike on the news it's going to be the most excitement I have ever experienced, more than seeing my best friend's mother naked when I was 15. Thank God for schizo retards like Anthony Blinken poking the bear as much as possible. I really think it's going to happen by the end of the year, I really mean that.
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>>2717023
I don't know man. I've been expecting a mauling due to NATO bearpoking since like 2012 and it has taken another decade to just get to the point we are today. NATO first strike or nuke false flag seems more likely.
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>>2717011
>yankee thinks southern words are bad but simultaneously thinks coonbonics is a valid language
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>>2717023
Care to elaborate on seeing your friends Mom naked? I lost my virginity to a 34 year old woman and have always had a thing for older women.
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>>2717032
Yeah but now both governments are openly threatening to attack each other and Russia actually blamed NATO for the terrorist attack a couple weeks ago. How many more American proxy attacks like that using fictitious spooks like "ISIS" do you think Russia will tolerate? I think Russia destroyed the bridge in Baltimore. I think they did it just to show how easily they can ruin our infrastructure just using intelligence alone. When they launch a nuke it will probably be when we least expect it. Russia is smart and smart men don't waste too much time chest thumping and escalating things, they just shoot you before you even know they're mad, that's how they survive to grow old. I wouldn't be surprised if we were nuked tomorrow.
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>>2717039
I mean, I wouldn't surprise me. But it's also a last ditch suicidal measure. One nuke isnt enough and there are immediate retaliation strike protocols. Like you said, they are smart and western infrastructure is in an horrendous state. I'd imagine they have a bunch of critical targets they'd take out and assets in place to do so and hope for a systemic collapse before they'd go to their last measure.
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>>2717054
But then we might nuke them, especially if dems steal the election again
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>>2717038
We were getting ready for church and I walked by her closed bedroom door to go to the bathroom. A glint of light caught my eye from her door frame. There was a very subtle gap between the door and the frame. I took a closer look and saw movement and heard drawers opening. I pressed my eye to the gap and suddenly saw her very clearly. She was completely naked with her at least D cup breasts swinging around as she folded clothing. I had never seen a naked woman before except in a book my mother had about pregnancy and some National Geographics. I felt as though I had been electrocuted. I've been obsessed with saggy mature tits ever since. I watched her through that gap at least 50 times and never got caught. Sadly she is now deceased. 70+ prostitutes later I have never matched that first high.
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>>2717056
plausible deniability
>it's domestic terrorists that are taking out the electric grid
Russia would have had a hard time nuking over northstream or moscow. US would have a hard nuking over something like this. And its easy enough to arm a couple dozen dudes in the states and have them take out substation transformers in a coordinated way. A lot less suicidal than a first strike.
We will see what happens.
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>>2717060
At the very least we'll have something 9/11 tier this year
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>>2717056
>again
They haven't done it yet.
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>>2715240
Thanks for hitting me with "literally" as the second word, because that was the moment when I realised that you're a retarded zoomer, and stopped reading. It's really as simple as that.
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>>2717089
Anyone who thinks Joe Biden won in 2020 is braindead
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>>2715240
Nice bait but pick up ur trash anons
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>>2715240
The problem is our natural interaction with this planet is to strip mine it and shit everywhere, which is fine when there's like 10 of us per square mile, because it limits the amount of damage we can do, the ecosystem can keep up. Nowadays there's just way too many people, so there needs to be a code adhered to so what we enjoy today can endure to tomorrow.

You're retarded.
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>>2717391
You're wrong. The problem is the obedience instinct. The tendency to obey authority is what allows people to be absorbed into mass organization systems that make environmental destruction possible. Without the instinct to obey authority not even the most intelligent people could ever create anything by themselves or in small tight knit communities that could allow population density to increase to dangerous levels or directly threaten the ecosystem. You need millions of people acting as cogs in a machine to achieve that. You need a slave/serf class who will sacrifice their lives to the machine without rebellion. Small communities of self-reliant people who only collaborate with their families and close relatives on equal and voluntary terms could barely even create iron tools. There could never be more than a billion of them on the planet and probably nowhere near that in reality. What we have to do is find some way to selectively exterminate everyone on the planet who obeys authority. I fantasized that the covid vaccine was a weapon designed to accomplish that but I don't believe it was. That is certainly a viable strategy though, if it had been a bioweapon it would have largely achieved the goal because only people who believe the government and mainstream media and feared their employers took the vaccine. This means that there is realistic hope to weed these people out of the gene pool permanently.
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>>2715458
>nigger thinks technocapital industrialization is slowing down
oh no no no no
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>>2716638
nta but you're genuinely retarded. ancap anons points are easily understandeable, although retarded because he believes the system isn't near indestructible.
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>>2716866
I'm with you anon but you talk of sabotage and hope that the system shatters, but what makes you think that it actually will? The best that you can hope for are temporary bubbles where you are at peace while the entropic god rearranges itself. Nuclear escalation is the only thing that you could idealistically achieve to stop it, but I don't feel like thats something you'd want. You honestly will waste your life trying to fight it. You're young and somewhat ill, lay your extremism aside and find peace.
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>>2717512
>>2717514

It may be indestructible. That is why I'm primarily focused on individual ways out of it above all else. I think we will have nukes in the air this year though.
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>>2716111
>they gatekeep all the best spots.
That's literally the point. It's a barrier to entry so people like you don't flood in and cut everything down to burn your trash. It sounds like you would be much happier in a national forest whose job is merely conservation, instead of preservation like the NPS.
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>>2717580
You said that last year too, chuddy.
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>>2715310
>>2715316
>>2715325

Oh no, here comes the "retvrn to le woods" larper who is sooooo much against the modern world yet views history through the exact same lens as the people he apparently despises so much!

Face it, pre-industrial civilizations are bound to be run over by more socially/technologically progressive and more urbanized civilizations. This is what your ancestors worked towards and they got a more stable and secure society to show for it.
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>>2717609
That's why we need to think outside the box and develop a strategy to exterminate them all. Vaccines have the potential to accomplish this.
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>>2717580
nukes wont matter as much as long it isn't a truly grand scale outbreak between two capable, bilateral global blocs that want to truly exterminate eachother. society will bounce back shortly after and the cycle will repeat, even if we return back to the stone age for some time. I think wanting this is irrational, I'd rather see the development of technocapital through. I don't wish nuclear genocide for people just for a tiny chance of briefly escaping our system for a while, indentured servitude and man-made horrors are preferable, It's not all bad.
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>>2717609
The planet of eight billion self-fumigating vermin sure sounds like a secure and stable situation to me!
Can't wait for breadbasket collapses!
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"Imagine the Earth without a single piece of manmade garbage to disgrace it. We fucked this place up. We fucked it up and we made up stories to justify it and quiet the ever-searing guilt. There's a grand creator and His son died for our sins, so that makes it okay to cover ripe soil with weed farms, department stores, and porn studios?"
-Mike Ma
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>>2717023
it would be exciting, assuming nukes are even real to begin with rofl
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>>2715240
>"you aren't allowed to directly interact with nature as a living, breathing human being as your ancestors did, you have to treat planet Earth like it's a museum and you're just an unwelcome guest"
Yeah shit is weird. What they mean is not polluting. But the kinds of people who say "make it look as though nobody was here" are kind of dumb, native americans left behind arrowheads and other signs of human activity ffs. Cant I widdle a stick in peace or stack some rocks without an asswipe telling me what to do?
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>>2715902
>I've seen 3 rabbits this whole year
Sounds like a skill issue
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>>2715954
>in the East
Problem acquired.
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>>2716443
>My boy
We've taken the hint, zoom zoom.
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>>2715995
>there was no mismanagement involved, besides maybe involving biosecurity protocols by the chinese
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>>2715240
Yea, I literally can't with those types.
I'm gonna do my own thing, and you ain't stopping me.
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>>2715458
>Most of the human race should be exterminated like cockroaches
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>>2715712
as do i
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>>2715242
I'm not reading all this either...so I'll assume what you wrote and critique my assumption of your comments.

Wasted.
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>>2715240
You're mostly right but don't seem to understand why. Leave No Trace is like gun safety rules. Every expert preaches the standard gun safety rules, and every REAL expert knows that you can break at least one rule at any given time and still be perfectly safe. Like Leave No Trace, the rules were written for normalfags, plebs, and casuals. If you're not a secondary or pleb, you should actually do with LNT is make it LOOK like you weren't there, or at least minimize impact as much as possible - there's nothing actually wrong with harvesting deadwood, having a small fire (especially if you scatter the ashes when completely doused and tear down your pit), or shitting in a cathole. Meanwhile you can laugh at the plebs who shit in a ziplock and pack it out. Biggest thing is to just not leave garbage lying around.

There's also nothing wrong with taking cool rocks or harvesting mushrooms or whatever, but such pleasures should be reserved for patricians - so the normalfags are taught that this is a bad thing.

>>2718254
Based MMposter
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>>2715240 (OP)
I don't think you realize how quickly we could ruin our forests if everyone who went there cut down a tree every time. If you like nature, don't destroy it so people can continue to enjoy it in the future. It's not that hard a fucking concept.

You can generally find all the wood you need from deadfall anyway if you actually bothered to look around for a bit.

You wanna build your little bushcraft huts or whatever do it on your own property.
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>>2715240
Leave no trace isn't about not making nature sad it's about sharing the space with other humans so we can all enjoy it as it is. Nature doesn't exist. Wildlands are a type of garden we have created. Leave no trace at your campsite because someone might be there tomorrow and they will probably be there next weekend. If you are really using lands nobody is using it's probably less important but realistically most wildlands are heavily used.
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>>2715325
No I didn't. Government exists everywhere. Government exists coercively. The ubiquity of government is as much your fault as mine. Please don't shit up a campsite I would like to use. In return I will try not to shit up campsites you want to use. If you want to leave your mark on something I would suggest abandoned lots and brown sites, because no one wants them you don't have to share.
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>>2715359
Yeah, that could be true. Out west we can get permits to fell trees in areas where that is considered proper management. Leave no trace is caught up in the false motion of "nature" but it's a good place to start when teaching people new to the outdoors not to fuck things up because they probably don't understand that nice places actually get fairly heavy use.
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>>2715373
It depends how heavily the area is used. If a camp is used every night like many beautiful trails are that ends up being a lot of holes dug and a lot of wood burned and as a result the area starts looking a little beat up. If you are out on some neglected BLM land totally go for it.
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>>2715902
>population was extremely low and most of the continent was untouched

90% of the population died of smallpox before white people moved inland. The history of the US before that was intentionally destroyed through genocide. We will never know what the new world was like before the Columbian exchange.
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>>2715240
that kind of shit is said by retards who dont understand that human beings are part of the natural cycle, and not outside of it.
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>>2719499
"All huminz are equal" faggots will point at this poster and say he is wrong.
However, barely sentient retards should stay IN and just watch their shitty goysloppa instead of annoying actual humans. They don't even enjoy nature anyways. This is why every piece of woodland should have a schizo axe murderer.
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>>2715240
That's not what this means you retard. It's a sentiment for normies who need to be told to clean up after themselves. It's like how you have to remind kids to look both ways before crossing the street. It's nothing more than that.
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>>2721166
Pretty much this.



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