>>2763912
It's brutally hard work and that sense of adventure wears off real damn quick.

>>2763912
>>2763916
Expanding some, I did it for six years as a bucker to start and then a faller. It wrecks your body and you don't get paid shit for it compared to a ton of things you could be doing.

What adventure do you think you're going to get? It's a worksite in the woods. Do you think you're going to be cutting down mystical old growth forests like the orcs of Isengard? Hell no, you're working in nicely planted rows most of the time.

If you want to make a fuck ton more money for similar or even easier work, just go be a lineman. It's not easy, but you get PAID. Work a few years and buy a house and a couple hundred acres in Idaho or Wyoming. Then you can /out/ on your own time and own place.

Be a fucking guide if you want to /out/ as your actual job.

>>2763946
>It wrecks your body and you don't get paid shit for it compared to a ton of things you could be doing.

This is the problem you find with way to many jobs now. Right before and in the middle of covid physical labor jobs were actually paid what they were worth. Now they are paying barely above minimum wage and just aren't worth the stress it's putting on your body or the INSANELY dangerous situations they are putting you through.

>I love the outdoors
>let me get a job actively destroying it

i unironically went forestry, it was great when i was 18-19 met a lot of good people, probably the best course was advanced first aid and advanced fire fighting, got my tractor license, which is pretty funny because i dont have a normal car drivers license, so i can drive a several ton tractor with two trailer and a crane, legally, but a ford focus? nah, cant do that

if you are half way suicidal, go into being an
arborist, trimming the tops of wealthy suburban

>>2763981
i basically got stuck just setting up deer fencing, monitoring flood zones, spent almost an entire year without touching a chainsaw, first time you fell a tree, fuck man, dont even think cumming in my first girlfriend felt half as good. i
quit, became a kindergarten teacher, was a good job, pretty quickly became "that guy" they would get for anything that needed to be fixed, quit that job two after like 4 years, became a locksmith, a machinist, lathe sucks

now im pretty much retired

>>2763946
>Be a fucking guide if you want to /out/ as your actual job.
I've done that for a few years, it fucking sucks. Raft, sea kayak, whitewater kayak.
The money's trash, and you're bored out of your mind paddling at the absolute base level of what you could be doing.
You do get fucking fit and spend all your time outside though.
Training swiftwater rescue and doing river SAR was pretty cool at times.
Got out of it for money and don't really paddle anymore - too many close calls over the years. I think it's like Isle of Man or skydiving - there's virtually no middle ground on the fine>fucked spectrum.

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>>2763983
Funny forestry is mentioned so much here, I ended up working with heavy machinery, basically a desk job but daily visits to forestry, mining, construction sites. Always wanted to spend a day on one of these, but the focus is obviously on production, not have-a-go days.

>>2763979
Forestry actually preserves the environment and they plant more trees than they cut down. Try again.

>>2764028
Yeah and mining creates new habitat (for species that don't need soil and can tolerate high arsenic).

>>2764028
Re-planting a monoculture time and time again actually destroys the biodiversity and soil nutrient matrix of the area cleared, as does repeatedly clearing the same areas every 50 years. If you want monoculture woods for wood products, it should be done as afforestation on plains or cleared land adjacent to forests, it should never be done on public or already richly and diversely forested land (that takes a minimum of 100 and a maximum of 500+ years to recover) and it should never be done as monoculture clear cuts.

>>2764028
>Forestry actually preserves the environment
This isn't even remotely true.

>decent, high-paying job at a flexible company
>stuck behind a desk taking meetings/emails all day whilst being overloaded with work
Kinda wanna kms bros, I wish I’d taken the apprenticeship pill most days

>>2763981
>got my tractor license, which is pretty funny because i dont have a normal car drivers license, so i can drive a several ton tractor with two trailer and a crane, legally, but a ford focus? nah, cant do that
I don't think this is possible anymore.

>>2764028
wrong. try again.

>>2764097
Their are almost no virgin forests left on earth anon they are all managed in some way. In North America, especially in the west the forests aren't even remotely wild. 100 years of putting out every forest fire has drastically changed the makeup of the forest and created massive undergrowth. It's why forest fires are major disasters these days. Logging is about the only viable way to keep these forests thinned out enough for fires to not become disasters.
>>2763912
I hauled green chain for a summer when I was 17 in the PNW. That's the guy who runs down the hill side dragging cable and attaching it too logs so the crane can pull the logs up the hill. I was never more tired at the end of the day than that period of my life.

>>2764170
Logging industry paid shill

>>2764175
Fuck that shit, I will never work in the logging industry again, those 3 months taught me everything I need to know about logging. But you have to be pretty damned retarded to not see how fucked up the forests are in the PNW, and it's because fire has been taken out of the equation for too long. I mean for fucks sake, a lot of the trees and plants in this part of the world require low grade fire just to reproduce.

>>2764170
>Their are almost no virgin forests left on earth anon they are all managed in some way.

There's a difference between virgin forest, old growth forest, and managed/steady disturbance forest. Most of the virgin, old growth and very low disturbance forest in the US is in the inland west, even in parts of the inland PNW. In parts of the SE US forests can be moderately and steadily disturbed by non-commercial activity and still be moderately healthy, but it will never attain widespread old growth status again unless it enters a long term low disturbance regime. This is also true of PNW forests, and forests anywhere generally. The PNW still has a lot of forest in the low disturbance/returning to old growth category, the problem is that it takes at least 150-300 years to do so in that region. Commercial clear cut logging activity is what I would categorize as very heavy disturbance.

>>2764048
He won't respond to that lol

>>2764177
Those forests only exist in the parks and small patches of privately owned land. If it's on government property (and not a park) it's been logged in the past 100 years, or had fires put out in it. Fire fighting is forest management.

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i met a forest fireman dude one time. friend of good buddy in town for the weekend, met up for drinks. the guy was like ~180lbs and maybe 5% bodyfat. he just hikes forests and thins them. we got to talking gear and boots. he said they all have to wear two layers of socks to be comfortable all day. goes through boots every four or six months. i was impressed. dude was an obvious adrenaline junky, one of those types. potentially sexual in nature.

>>2764202
Wilderness is not logged, and there are tens of thousands of miles of mature/old growth forest all over the US. Mature/old growth forest is not the same as virgin forest (of which most is largely in inland western wilderness areas), and there's a lot of mature/old growth forest that was not widely logged (less than 5% of the mature forest area) in the last 200+ years. Most commercial and widespread logging occurred primarily in the coastal PNW in the last 100 years, and in the eastern and SE US. There's also mature forests now that haven't been logged or stand burned since the 1850s.

Depending on the mapping and the mature/old growth definition, there is at least an estimated and partially inventoried 129,137 sq miles of mature forest on public land in the US, of which at least 44% of which can legally never and has never been logged. From the same study inventory estimate, if you included private land under the same definition the estimated mature forest area increases to 305,600 sq miles of mature forest in the US. No doubt probably half of both figures were in Alaska, but it didn't give a specific state by state breakdown, and even then that's still around 64,600-150,000 sq miles of mature forest in the lower 48.

The specific study I'm referencing was DellaSala et al. 2022.

>>2764205
>meets another man
>can only think about his body and potential sexual energy

So are you in the closest or out

>>2764143
>I don't think this is possible anymore
Very much is, here in Denmark atleast, I can't drive on highways, in ""city centers""
Had it since I was 17, essentially the same as a moped licens, mopeds under 45 Hp that is

>>2764170
>Their (sic) are almost no virgin forests left on earth
australia still has a fair amount

>>2763946
>If you want to make a fuck ton more money for similar or even easier work, just go be a lineman. It's not easy, but you get PAID.
Is it still viable taking the linemanpill these days?

>>2763983
>don't really paddle anymore
Yeah whitewater canoe/sea kayak is not a smoothly 'controllable' thing like say climbing, you can get whacked by pure fluke too easily for me. Well out of it.

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>>2763946
>just go be a lineman
whats pay like?
how /out/doorsy is it?

>>2764282
kind of, its gotten way more competitive to be an apprentice. Now u have to go to lineman school or take a community college course of which there are limited spots. 10 years ago u coulda just had ur cdl and got in

>>2764541
if your gonna climb poles might as well become an arborist, fir trees wont insta kill you if you touch the wrong wire, twice the pay, half the time to get the title

>>2763981
>i unironically went forestry
I ironically went forestry and this man is a retard.

>>2764553
>I ironically went forestry and this man is a retard.
simple question, Stihl or Husqvarna, Massy Fergusson or John Deere

>>2763912
It gets mogged by wildland fire in all but pay. Wildland would be the king of /out/ jobs if they actually paid them a living wage and gave them better PPE against the occupational hazards beyond just nomex and a reflective hard hat

>>2763912
Consider wastewater treatment. Yes it's not truly /out/ since it's plant work, but you will spend time outside as an operator. It can be gross but you get over it, and your immune system becomes extremely resilient as a result. You also get to know that you personally are what keeps our rivers and waterways from looking like the fucking Ganges.

>>2764672
I’ve been looking into Waste Water locally over the past year. Something to consider is you will need to take some courses to get licensed in order for them to consider you for apprenticeships

I've been looking into it but I wouldn't want to go into the timber sector of it. Much more interested in conservation and park maintenance, or at least, climbing arborist.

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>>2763912
I run my own small business, its not well paid but its comfy.
I sell some firewood and do some simple forest services for people.
Here I am clearing out trees for a future home on my parents land, that I plan on renting out.
I own a sawmill so I'll make most lumber by myself.

>>2764763
Yeah I know, but it's still a really cool field to get into if you can stomach it. Licensing varies state-to-state though, some places are easier than others.

>>2764852
What is really cool about it? I've considered it before because it's not much school, pays decent, has good benefits, seems easy enough and is stable but it seems boring as all hell

>>2763912
>Another logging shill thread
KYS. Loggers are cancer still operating on 1940s enviormental policy... in fact they're worse because now they spray poison after clearcutting.

>>2763979
based
>>2764028
This is the lie you fuck faced morons spew at every opportunity. Old growth forest is the natural state of the entire western and intermountain forests. Doug Fir, Noble Fir, and Hemlock ARE NOT MATURE UNTILL 150 to 200 years.
>>2764097
>>2764167
The timber shills repeat lies constantly here--obvious lies like this nonsense.

>>2764805
>Cuts down a forest to build a McManshon
I hate you fucking boomers so much it's unreal

>>2765378
There's a lot of different areas you can branch into from an operator role. Some more physical, some admin, some more desk work.
>lab work using biology/chemistry to analyze water samples
>pipefitting and other electromechanical maintenance
>instrumentation and industrial controls monitoring/SCADA
>heavy equipment operation sometimes requiring a CDL
>managerial positions of course
>many different kinds of engineering
Of course Ive also already said you get to be the guy keeping waterways as clean as possible. It's a field with a little bit of everything all converging in one spot, which I find neat.

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>>2765605
>>lab work using biology/chemistry to analyze water samples
groundwater is actually more rare to send to a lab for analyses. soil is the bread and butter of labs. every development project needs to know info about the soil, and when my dept was low on billable hours, i went to the soils lab to help out and listen to some chill tunes. mainly, i prepped soil samples. took them out of the fedex boxes, transferred labels and sample IDs and whatnot to proper lab glassware, put moist soil samples into the low heat oven overnight, take soil samples from oven in morning, grab the mortar/pestle, crush soil samples all morning while chilling with my soil lab buddies.

then i got a talking-to, because i'm a PG crushing soil samples while dept manager sucks at writing proposals.

>>2765655
and i should also say, wastewater operators are kinda...nepotistic. ive tried applying for a few different permitting/env remediation jobs at some local plants i personally know from different angles. they only hire their own guys, regardless of how many contacts you know in the environmental remediation field locally, and regardless of how you can print off their latest groundwater monitoring report, read it to them, and tell them i used to work with the guy who signed the report on the final page.

operators are incestuous.

>>2763982

did you just spent a whole lot of time on those jobs or did you make a fortune in between ?

How did you retire ?

>>2763912

people often mention this but I think some of the best "/out/ careers" are something remote in tech.

I'm a design team lead these days, I make very decent money, it looks like I can retire by 40 due to team shares and my out time is almost as big as i want it to be.

I spent a month last year working from the back of my Chevy truck exploring the Nordic countries.
I'm moving there full time currently.
I can work from anywhere with a smartphone and a laptop and my schedule is super flexible.
I could literally spend the whole next year car camping and doing 2-3 days hiking trips to my hearts content.

you guys won't believe me but it is hard work in the end, but I feel it's something to consider.

>>2765485
How do you think new houses are built retard?
Oh and pretty bold of you to think I'll build a cardboard house when Im literally staring at proper lumber.
This country is literally 70% forest and we make sure to use it.

>>2765655
>>2765657
So what exactly is the title of the position you hold? I was in a natural resource program at a tech school a long time ago and almost ended up in soil/water conservation for the county which sounds similar to what you're describing. Sorry to hear your experience with Ops has mostly been sour, but I haven't heard the same from others, at least not in my area. I could see the municipal side being pretty nepo, but not so much the privatized side.

>>2763946
Wyoming is full, fuck off

>>2764541
Linemen are some of the best paid tradesmen in the country, but its very dangerous, includes lots of on-call and travel, and you will work shit tons of OT. It's a tough job for bitter old bastards but you absolutely can get semi-rich doing it if you don't mind never having a life to spend it on

>>2765839
This. Wyoming is a super windy shithole with nothing going for it. Hardly any services and very isolated. Wouldn’t recommend, gotta be born in the state to fair well, so it’s full as it is.

>>2765839
>>2766062
It's the least populated state in the US, übagüfies. Wyoming is not full.

>>2765755
>Conflates
>Red Herring

Yes, you're a retarded boomer that loves shit and ancient building techniques to build super inefficent McManshions.

Yes you're a retarded boomer who will parrot big timber talking points as if you thought of them.

NO, the US is NOT 70% forest you retarded subhuman.

>>2764202
>Those forests only exist in the parks and small patches of privately owned land.
100% untrue
> Fire fighting is forest management.
110% untrue

>>2766147
to be fair, if they'd stop fucking logging the coastal and intermountain rainforests the inland fire potential would dimmish dramatically.

>>2766148
never gonna happen until the already fucked spruce replants can supplement grinding 1000 year old cedars into chips for normies landscaping

>>2766065
Fuck off we're full.

>>2766150
I'm not assuming the sociopathic locusts will ever stop their lust for status paid for by the destruction of nature: I'm just saying if you consider "leaving a forest completely the fuck alone" forest management than it is actually a true statement.

I have no hope that our society will comprehend the necessity of old growth and wetlands until all of north America is desert--we have around 100 or so years at this rate.

>>2766065
>Goblin speak

>>2765697
>How did you retire ?
a quirky little life hack known as "genetic illnesses"
so its medical retirement, not "i made a lot of money" retirement

>>2766181
oh shit, sorry bro

>>2765483
>now they spray poison after clearcutting
Why are they spraying what kind of poison?

>>2766213
no worries man, i have come to terms with it a long time ago,
i would say, the happiest job ive had was a kindergarten teacher, the one where i made the most money, by far, as a locksmith, if i had taken my forestry away from industrial logging i could probably made more money,
machinist was just a step to locksmith, fun work, good pay, can work night shifts or day shifts, you get to be smug as hell showing up to a worksite where some dork locked himself out of the toilet, fix him and charge him a days pay, or helping some old widow change her locks. a kid locked the car keys inside as a "joke" got it

>>2764028
imagine believing that

>>2765815
I have a couple titles depending on what reports I sign. Usually environmental professional, required for all env dd reports. Sometimes professional geologist, my state doesn't have a test for a PG, you become one after so many working years. Sometimes senior scientist if I'm only contributing to a report and not signing as the competent person.

I got sour with govt jobs. My best buddy works at a potw and tried to get me an interview. He has one or two connections, I didn't. Whatever.

>>2766516
and by competent person and being the signatory on a report, i mean i only put my jurat on reports i read in their entirety. pretty much office-only these days. like this dude >>2766181, i too am approaching medical retirement. one of those lifelong conditions that doesnt get better over time, makes it more difficult and painful to move my joints for extended periods. particularly so when the ASTM states a site needs to be physically walked/traversed. almost out of the game.

>>2766242
How long does it take to become a locksmith? Any math involved?

>>2766065
It IS full. There’s more than enough people there already

>>2766231
When DNR Deforests (they call it logging because the word fuckery downplays what they are actually doing) it absolutely fucks all the habitats especially the insects. The major imbalance in the insect population creates an explosion of bugs looking for new homes--and so DNR sprays after clearcutting.

It's not advertised but if you go to any logging site on the West coast after it is logged (managed forest by DNR) you'll always see pesticide warnings and spray schedules post clear-cut. Always.

DNR also doesn't report forest fires on clear cuts unless they escalate--and clear cut forest fires are constantly happening.

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>>2766065

Do any anons have experience in american conservation corps as a start to /out/ careers?

>>2766632
Non profits are a totally different animal. Lots of them are very nepotistic or in-group oriented so if you're gunning for a paid position that could take some time... Well worth the effort long term and the best way to get in fast and rise up the ranks is to become a grant writer.

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All right, gentlemen. I think we need some sort of clarification for threads like these. It might prove useful to say whether you're a conservationist or preservationist, whether you side with muir or pinchot. little clarification goes a long way.

Bush pilot. Great views, go into all sorts of cool places, spend pretty much all your time /out/.

Downsides is its extremely dangerous, almost as bad as logging, and cost to entry is really high. You’ll need your tailwheel, ASES & AMES. Though you won’t need your seaplane multi until after you’ve done pretty significant time ASES (if ever). In any case you might as well do rotors when you factor in the cost of all the additional ratings and check rides.

BUT look at it this way: you are by far and away the smallest footprint method of travel. Less so than walking. Opportunities and room for growth are endless, the pay can get outrageous and if you ever want to do something more laid back then take your hours and go airlines.

Question is are you willing to spend $100k ($100k you probably don’t have) and 12-18 months of your life on the training? Especially when the washout rate is well in the 80-90% range.

>>2766668
>the pay can get outrageous
How outrageous?
>the washout rate is well in the 80-90% range
Why?

>>2766675
It’s not easy and it’s expensive. There are a lot of students who want to just fly but can’t handle the books, and vice versa. Contrary to what you might hear you will be ruthlessly run out of your training program if they decide you’re not progressing well enough. you can still go to a ma & pa flight school (and save a lot of money) but you will be on your own in terms of making your own syllabus and structuring your learning.

People who are fuck-up can generally make it through to being a commercial rated pilot or even CFI (though the latter is rare, the 12 hour checkride weeds out pretty much all the losers) but if you’re a dipshit or simply not cut out for it you’ll never get hired.

It is very difficult to build hours unless you get your CFI. Not impossible, but you gotta get lucky. Once this reality sets in the ngmi’s usually throw in the towel. Usually this happens somewhere between first solo and PPL, though each stage weeds out its fair share.

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Hunting.

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>>2766691
Hunters make money by:
>removing predator animals
>selling meat and hides
>doing guided hunts
Often six figures.

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>>2766692

Commercial fishermen go out on the water every day and bring in fish from lines, traps, and so on. Hunters, trappers, fishermen have had a similar role since ancient times, to harvest meat from the wilderness.

So their job requires them to be outside in the wilderness all day. Like park rangers, foresters, of course there is agriculture and preservation, field biologists, surveyors, a lot of work requires you to be innawoods.

>>2763912
does anyone have tips for getting an /out/ job (preferably forest-set) for someone that has a non-/out/ bachelor's degree and no /out/ job experience?

>>2763979
>Greta poster
>fact checked by true climate change lunatics

>>2766179
There is hope, many in the older generations are completely brainwashed or set in their destructive ways, but the younger generations can still learn to appreciate the wilderness, old growth, and forests and nature in general and help to actively preserve and enjoy it without destroying it. The key here is they have to be taught truths and not illusions or corporate (the government is also a corporation) propaganda or misleading information, and they have to be willing to learn. If even 5-10% of people under 30 knew about the dire state of old growth and wilderness and the active propaganda campaigns in place to keep people dumbed down or not caring of it, that would be a massive improvement over older generations (the torch bearers of clear cut it all, burn it all, farm it all).

Nature is extremely resilient, if you can leave it alone long enough, or at least not actively destroy it for long enough. It will grow back and begin to reclaim its old right (areas it was pushed out of by human greed and ignorance). And with a little knowledge and experience and practice, people with the right mindset, that care, and that have the necessary knowledge can give it a helping hand. All things in this reality are governed by natural law (see Mark Passio's 8hr vid on it), the more people start living in harmony with it the better reality gets for everyone and everything.

>>2766789
I have 20 acres of Appalachian trees. What's the best way to manage them?

>>2766830
Leave it alone as much as possible if that's what you want to do with the land, and continue that practice into successive generations if there are any. If it was totally deforested land you could give it a hand by reforesting it yourself with native and local seed stock, and keeping pests at bay until the trees can mature enough to not be at risk to them. You could also plant native understory species if you have bare understory year round. Removing aggressive invasives where you can will also help the native species. Riparian improvement also enriches a forest area, healthy perennial riparian banks have an abundance of understory species. Over time you might notice more animal species as well, especially as the stand matures.

>>2766839
>as much as possible
This is what I'm trying to figure out. I want to stay ahead of any trees that might get downed in storms and since property taxes are a thing I'd like to extract as much wealth as I can while maintaining enough trees of varying ages to cultivate something approximating old growth.

>>2763946
>What adventure do you think you're going to get? It's a worksite in the woods.
you have to remember that 99% of this board are just losers sitting in a messy room in New Jersey somewhere with anime posters on the walls who think that if they go "out West" or "to the woods" all kinds of exciting shit happens like they see on TV

>>2766789
Public schools don't teach anything about nature. I just got invited to teach the basics about forests, watersheds and native plants to 6th graders and the school board has taken almost a year to approve my course--they still haven't yet... shits fucked. I'm literally just explaining watersheds, aquifers and how to identify native trees.
>>2766830
Less is more. Kill invasive species and take a very close look at the watershed and aquifer. It's literally that simple.
>>2766851
You won't be able to cut down enough to be profitable. The timber industry gets all sorts of favors from the government in order to generate the piles of cash they do off of deforestation and promoting desertification. Just get an old CONNEX and create a mushroom farm if you want to make easy money or start a youtube channel like the rest of the grifters.

>>2766879
and 50% are fat females like you that live to shit all over men's dreams and hopes because you're a fat piece of shit who hates men.

>>2766884
This guy is correct regarding invasive and unwanted species. First thing to do is walk the whole property and destroy everything bad. Then keep doing it until bad stuff gone.

What about joining the Army or Marines? Looks like they get to go outside and go camping a lot and learn a bunch of useful /out/ skills.

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Driller/Blaster any good? Mostly Blaster

>>2766885
What part of that statement offended you personally? Did some logging company throw your application out and shatter your dreams when they saw you were a soft anime addicted loser from New Jersey?

>>2767355
just ignore him, he's a life fail who calls everyone who calls him out a roastie, mostly to pretend something with a vagina is giving him attention, and he does this here quite a bit.

>>2767355
Thanks for verifying I'm correct.
>>2767359
Lol, the fat piece of shit cancer that clearcut a hillside to build a McManshion says ignore anyone that give you shit..
PRICELESS

Do you ever get tired of being a fake piece of shit who lives on status and doesn't give a shit about nature beyond lip service? Doesn't seem like it.

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>>2767361
lol, case in point.

>>2767394
>posts something incoherent
I know this is hard for you but use your words like a big girl--I believe in you anon.

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>>2767593
>still assravaged
lol, go outside skitzo.

Surveying is an interesting choice since, when working alone, you get to spend just about as much time as you want on it and while your equipment is working for you, you can enjoy the plants around you and learn foraging/ecology. But it's definitely somewhat hard to get into as a freelancer/working for one.

>>2766885
If you're hopes and dreams are to go for work Simpson or Weyerhauser I got some bad news for bud.
Pay is pretty good from what I hear, but its also hard work and the other loggers will probably harass you non-stop for being a bitch who watches cartoons and cant pull his own weight

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>>2764028
>guaranteed_replies.txt

>>2763912
The work is brutal and dangerous. Also, mostly what you'll be doing is clearing beautiful vibrant forest so that some retiree from California can build his own 12 bedroom mcmansion with its own golf green. The timber usually doesn't even get used for anything. Since most of the mills in the US are shut down now there is nowhere to sell timber and it's crazy expensive to transport so it just gets hauled off and chipped up. My last logging job was clearing 4 acres of old growth Douglas fir because some 85 year old doctor could have a private airstrip for his shitty Cessna. He lost his pilots license 8 years ago because he can't pass a physical. But he's gotta clear a bunch of land "just in case he ever gets his license back."

I quit falling timber because it just felt like all I was doing was destroying nature for coastal elites to build summer homes they never even stay at. Hated it.

>>2763912
>>2763912
The one and only “adventurous” career within forestry is Wildland firefighting. But the Feds pay their forest techs dog shit while working them to the bone. It’s fun work, but I did it with a state agency where the pay was awesome, gear was quality (brand new most of the time), and you actually go to many different areas within your response area. Albeit, with the Feds you cross state, even country borders at times, but if you want to support a family and have the opportunity to promote with eight years, go state level. You’ll never ge lt to run a saw on the fed Wildland crews unless you’re an absolute monster who can lap the current saw team and cut twice as fast, anything less and they’ll make you work your way up the line. Feds are really a revolving door, some state agencies can be, plus you get unemployment on the off season when you get laid off with state. Feds are on year round doing vegetation management projects (prescription burns and fire prevention cutting).

>>2767693
Ah, you're a bot. That makes sense now.
>>2768026
>Logging just lines the rich's pockets while destroying nature and actually doesn't contribute to the betterment of society.

It's always been like this. People who say logging built america are retarded--Logging built the globohomo financial eliete and the lumber was pissed away on building their wealth.

Now big logging is a government slush fund to continue lining billionare's pockets.

We don't need logging at all in 2024, it's a legacy wealth grab and idiots are too dumb to imagine how to build houses or wipe their asses without deforestation.

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>>2768460
>screaming about roasties isn't working! um...err...you-you-re a robot!!111
hehe, silly skitzo, imbibe your prescribed medication.

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>>2763912
maybe, you could also look into doing trails or wilderness ranger

pic related is in the absaroka-beartooth wilderness when i was working trails this past summer

2768644
>beep boop, boop beep boop
it won't respond

>>2769477
Your concession is accepted, now take your meds.

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im addicted to watching this guys vids on youtube
most /out/ job ever
lives in some tiny town in BC
logging company sticks him on a plane to a barge camp in the middle of nowhere Northern BC
most amazing looking land ever
does 3 week shifts on/off logging 300ft pine
terrain is so rugged they fly him into the logging field every morning by helicopter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWLN97hR_ug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O7H9qWdquk

>>2769991
>Meds
ah yes, you jews cant help but spew your pseudoscience while saying nothing of value.
Not surprised you build it into your bots as well.

>>2768644
>t. kike
yes, normal people call people schitzo... lol, no, obvious filthy kike.

Of course a filthy jew is going to shit up a thread about logging with lies and insults.

Every time.

>>2770386
>>2770390
>I'm a locust obsessed with destruction
we know, the world is full of (you) and the jew very clearly approves of your good goy wholesale rape of nature and total apathy towards it at the same time.

>>2771180
Hysterical squealing about nose goblins doesn't make you less defective son.
take your meds.

>>2771180
>>2771182
>>2771184
Aren't you supposed to be getting ready to "fun post" a school for your blowbuddy agent glowberg?

>>2771210
>>2771212
>Jew continues to say jewish things

Threadly reminder there is nothing kikes love more than the destruction of old growth. Look at this filthily jew and how his filthily disguising twisted mid works.

Take notes kids--they're all like this.

>>2771217
I agree that kikes hate nature. But I also don't think they will destroy all of it. I will reiterate again, the forests you have in the US are fucking spectacular in comparison to Europe, and somehow all the forest in Europe hasn't been completely wiped out yet. If you keep sabotaging the logging kikes then they will be forced to stop.

>>2771214
>>2771212
>>2771210
>>2771184
>>2771182
Isn't interesting how those who've most benefited with the small hat's machinations are the ones who hate them the most.
I mean, in more proper age we locked up degenerates, criminals, and the mentally ill, but now they run amuck on the streets.
70 years ago you'd have been placed in a bughouse and safely contained, but here you are free and miserable.

>>2771260
70 years ago you'd rightfully be in an oven.

>>2771248
Kikes hate all things natural. Who do you think funds these third world logging operations?

Just look how unhinged and deranged the kike spewing nonsense is--none of them are right in the head and they literally worship demons.

>>2771282
Never happened.
Mostly typhus--just something else Jews lie about constantly.

>>2771214
>>2771217
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>2763912
>Is forestry a good /out/ career
If you have an 80 IQ and are a sociopath you'll fit right in. It takes a special kind of locust to look at trees that can live thousands of years as part of the ecosystem we are directly connected to and just see dollar signs.

Syntropic agroforestry
>you get to reinvent agriculture by building soil
>you work for yourself
>you eat and sell good fucking fruit/veg
>no pollutants

>>2771282
hah nope, but the Germans gassed the tards first, so you would have been ahead of them in the line.

>>2771798
he didn't gas anyone but if that's what you need to believe than who am I to stop you. I really don't think you believe in anything.
Why exactly are you posting to this thread ?

>>2763916
Still beats being inside

>>2771800
no it doesn't

My college came out to almost free (no debt :) ) and i'm going into Environmental science. Is this a good decision for /out/ work or will I be stuck at a desk doing soil tests?

>>2772243
An environmental science degree isn't about understanding or protecting the environment as much as it is about learning how the Timber and Mining industries want you conditioned to agree with their approaches to fucking up nature wholesale.

If you're not willing to pencil whip projects that completely fuck forests and groundwater than I recommend a different path altogether.

What do you guys think about Surveying?
I know that civil engineering and development is a big part of it, but things like topo and hydrographical/underground surveys seem pretty neat. Pay seems to be kinda shit unless you get your professional license, which at that point you get put in an office anyway.

>>2766668
t. colorblind
My dreams of being a pilot were crushed in the fourth grade when the news was broken to me

>>2767221
I was in the marine corps infantry
Do it if
>you’re under 21 (or 25 if you want to be an officer)
>you’re fit and not a pussy
>you want to be in what is basically a college frat on steroids
>you’re okay with not having autonomy over your own time, ie you’re going to go to the field for anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks at a time, fairly regularly, and you’ll do 1-2 multi-month deployments (that are pretty fun in peacetime ie you’re just booze cruising from country to country).
>when not in the field/deployment you’re working 6 hours a day 4-5 days a week tho and if you get Hawaii or Pendleton duty station this can be a sweet deal
>you’re not a fucking pussy or weirdo, if you are you’re going to get hazed and shit on by your seniors and rejected by your peers
>you know what the fuck you’re signing up for. It can be very rewarding and fraternal but also very demanding and depressing at other times
>you’re very fit, not just gym bro fit but like an actual athlete with good mental strength to push through extremely difficult field ops and PT’s
I would join the infantry. Infantry gets shit from POGs because “muh transferable skills” but I did 4 years as an 0331 machine gunner and it was the best thing I’ve ever done for myself and now I’m in college getting a free degree with a unique life experience, amazing resume, soft skills that can’t be taught anywhere else and over $100k net worth and a free college education at 24.

>>2772536
I hear a lot of bad things from the zogbot world but every now and then I hear stories like this that make me wish I joined up when I was younger. I was a total shithead at 18 and I really could have benefited from the discipline and direction before I made some shitty decisions later on.
Everytime I discover a niche field with interesting work, it ends up having a dodgy barrier for entry that benefits hugely from military service. Nuclear power, aviation mechanics, search and rescue, to name a few.

>>2772515
Surveying is what they do just before bringing in the heavy machinery to fuck nature up on an industrial level.

If you honestly care about nature look into the non-profits like the beaver institute or land trusts that exist for land preservation.

The more you learn about nature the more you learn that the people who have financial control over it don't care about it beyond how much wealth they can extract.

>>2772537
No it definitely sucks at time. I didn’t and still don’t give a fuck about politics so I didn’t care about all that but there’s other stuff. For example your first ~year is going to be hell as a boot, you’re just gonna get hazed and treated like a subhuman and get every shit detail. And I probably spent a year total in the field which can be fun but also sucky at times. The deployments and fraternity made it worth it, MEUs are fun because you’re young af and get to travel to cool countries for free. The fraternity is the best part of it, I was in Pendleton so I got to experience 18-22 living in SoCal with 0 cost of living and some of the best bros of my life and saved basically all of my money that I didn’t spend going out

>>2772537
DoD is cancer and only an idiot would sell their soul to die for Iseral and the central bankers.
You have the moral compass of a sociopath.
>>2772537
DoE, not DoD controls most of those things. If you want to work in aviation become a welder or machinist.

It sounds like you want a job you can brag about, not one that actually has anything to do with nature or quality of life.

>>2772515
Surveyors do have some interesting work in their field. They certainly get /out/ a lot, however any survey work in line with conservation/preservation is very very limited, a good 99% of the work is based on development or resource extraction. If you get lucky, you might get to help some sort of environmental -ologist plot conservation areas or map out changes in landscape over time.
I get it, though. If you like being outside, enjoy history, and love maps, surveying would be a great fit, but it's unfortunately not a good avenue for treehuggers like the average /out/ist.

>>2772547
Please tell me how I “sold my soul” to anyone
Get off of /pol/ please

>>2772547
>It sounds like you want a job you can brag about, not one that actually has anything to do with nature or quality of life.
Sort of, but not really. This was all a very long time ago now, I'm an electrician these days.
>Nuclear Power
I wanted to do this because I was really into Metro 2033 long ago and I wanted to larp a little bit internally, I think.
>Aviation maintenance
I used to do wildland fire and washed out for medical reasons after a few years, I considered going this route to work on the birds they use to fight fire and get me close to that world again.
>search and rescue
Wanted to go this route while still in fire as NPS heli crews do a fair bit of SAR, just seemed cool.

I mean, who doesn't want a cool job though.

>>2772554
You're a sociopath. The rest is you bloviating and trying to hide that fact. Don't you have some old growth to cut down or third worlders to help move into the suburbs of another white city.
>>2772558
>who doesn't want a cool job
The only thing of value is time.

>>2772562
Nigga what

>>2772562
>The only thing of value is time
I can smell the maladjusted NEET on you from here.

>>2772572
LOL
If being able to spot and avoid sociopaths like you is maladjusted than guilty as charged.
You can't survive without your precious status symbols and are incapable of introspection.

Many such cases. Keep unironically shilling DoD and the the logging cartels.

>>2772573
>doesnt object to being a NEET
Go figure

>>2772575
>Doesn't object to being a sociopath
go figure

>>2772576
I'm not the guy that was in the Marines, you retard
NEET and illiterate, lucky you.

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question for anons with non-/out/ jobs
how do you deal with the knowledge that your job either isnt helping the environment, or is even actively destroying it? I work in a paper mill with a plastic extruder inside of it also. The job is decent, good pay, benefits, schedule is good and my boss isn't a raging dickhead, quite friendly even. But I always have a sinking feeling knowing that the work I do is "part of the problem"
Anyone else have these feelings? how do you cope?

>>2772587
You are directly responsible for the destruction of the global environment

>>2772595
Yeah I said that already

>>2772587
>how do you deal with the knowledge that your job either isnt helping the environment, or is even actively destroying it?
by re-investing into efforts that do. Use the money they pay you to plant a tree and nurture it anon.

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>>2772587
Part of getting older is eventually realizing you aren't immune to the machine. Everybody has some sort of negative impact on the environment no matter who they are and what they do. The career conservationist still drives to work, whether it be an office or a meadow. Hell, even a 0-tech woodshobo will still fuck things up depending on what they kill, forage, or tred over. Wildlife will cock over other wildlife and drive it to extinction. It's just how life is. What matters is what you consciously do to mitigate your impact.

>>2772587
Reduce your expenses and change your priorities.
>>2772579
ok parasite
>>2772619
>You can't fight it so you might as well cut it all down and burn it all
indeed

>>2772587
I’m not employed, I’m a student.

>>2763912
>physical work so get strong
this is pure sedentary larp. the amount of fitness i lose every fire season is liable to drive me out of the job.

>>2764177
> SE US forests can be moderately and steadily disturbed by non-commercial activity and still be moderately healthy, but it will never attain widespread old growth status again unless it enters a long term low disturbance regime
The chestnut is not coming back. The east will never become an old growth forest again. They were the main tree here.

>>2773070
>The east coast will never become old growth again
Spoken like a true and dedicated parasite.

>>2772587
How do you get a job in a paper mill? What experience is needed?

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>>2763912
While harvesting is just being a machine operator I work in block development in Northern British Columbia and enjoy my job alot. Lot's of hiking through the bush being eaten alive by bugs but I wouldn't trade it for a cubicle, eventually I'll work myself into a desk position but that's for when I'm older. You can do this job without any schooling but my suggestion is getting a tech diploma which takes two years. The pay isn't amazing but northern BC is fairly cheap compared to the rest of the province.

There is a good deal of variety in the job from designing block boundary, planning out roads, doing riparian assessments or ecological classification. If you are the conservationist type I always say it's better if logging is done by people who care about nature instead of people who don't.

I’m an environmental geologist. I do a lot of Phase I ESA site visits in support of real estate transactions. Properties can range from construction sites to pig farms to 1,000 acre hunting properties.

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Anyone have experience with a conservation corps? I was thinking about joining the CCC but it looks too diverse.

>>2773104
What’s the plan to bring it back? Genetically modified organism (gmo) chestnuts? The yellow man brought the blight the American chestnut is gone.

>>2773194
The problem with the east coast is Mesophication.

The people saving the old growth are actually the people working with beavers to expand riparian forests. The biggest problem with north america is people want to live right on the water (which is stupid) and they will clearcut just so they can have a view (which is also stupid).

Thankfully due to extreme weather events a lot of these idiots in flood planes are getting blown out and that trend will continue to increase.

>>2773125
>Logging is better if done by people who care about forest
You're cancer. You're logging lowland rainforests and old growth. You care about a paycheck.

>>2773129
You pencil whip wholesale destruction of nature. They don't hire people who care about nature they hire whoever will approve the project.

Forestry, agriculture, construction, hunting, fishing, surveying, rural trucking, line worker, small town cop, small town firefighter, literally any job in a small town or rural farming community.

>>2773117
>Paper mill
It's called the "pulp and paper industry" and
there are two primary types of paper mills: mechanical and chemical.

To get paper you must first process pulp and you can do that mechanically or with chemicals.

Chemical paper plants stink up entire regions. If you want to live in a town that always smells like rotten eggs (Tacoma WA) than look into International paper. I don't even know if they do mechanical pulping anymore.

The whole industry is pretty gross, the only reason we still make paper out of trees is because Hemp is still federally banned and the timber cartels pump money directly into the CAFR bypassing the voters control of it.

>>2772885
you should go to the Fishing/Tackle General with all that bait you got there.

>>2773361
Yes, introspection is beyond you so the truth looks like a personal attack.

>>2773290
Do you know what a chestnut was? Lol the Appalachian Forrest will never be what it was before the yellow man introduced their diseases

>>2763912
I work as an operational forester. New to the job. Just laid out a 235 acre block last week. Still trying to add some other bits of acreage onto it
Aroostook County Maine

>>2773292
>surely if I talk shit online they'll stop doing it
KEK

>>2771184
you don't get to post unless you live in a cave with internet you created from rocks you stupid faggot

>>2773559
Ah yes, it's just all lots and dollar signs--loggers are cancer.
>>2773717
>If I don't cut the forest down someone else is just going to cut the forest down.
Says the cancer that comes on the internet and brags with pride about being no better than the subhumans deforesting the amazon.

You're a locust man with a locust mind who fills their masters coffers with gold and mocks any who doesn't applaud the destruction.

>>2773772
Pathetic cope from a piece of human filth.

>>2773798
>You're a locust man with a locust mind who fills their masters coffers with gold and mocks any who doesn't applaud the destruction.
>he says, on 4chan, posted from a modern computer made from mined natural resources and plastic, connected to the power grid polluting the air and defiling our waterways
Kys

>>2773800
Ah yes, the cancerous logger now thinks he knows anything about anything.

Fun fact--we don't need logging for any of those things and the waterways are polluted because of logging watersheds and the removal of wetlands.

Stop pretending you understand anything about the nature you're raping.

>>2773801
Are these loggers in the room with us right now?

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>>2773804
>Comes to /out/ to shill forestry
>Somehow shocked that they're getting shit on
Ah yes, the total lack of self awareness is strong with this one.
I love that you're so dumb the best you can do is recycle /pol/ memes.

>>2772534
Anon, you can be colorblind and be a pilot. If you are still checking this thread let me know and I tell you how

>>2773843
I'm not a forester or a logger lol
Youre either a bot or a hypocrite loser sitting at a computer hitting F5, either way, if you died nothing in my life would change

>>2773900
>I'm not a forester or a logger
Ah, you're just a sperg with a very low IQ.
If you died, everyone around you would be better off.

>>2763912
Its pretty damn dangerous. Loggers and arborists have higher job related fatalities than most fields.

That being said I love doing tree work on the side but i just do residential stuff.

>>2763979
Theres no money in saving the environment.

T. Water quality technician for thr local conservation authority making 25/h with a masters in science

>>2773965
>making 25/h with a masters in science
Kek, I make more than you with a GED

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>>2763981

Trimming the tops of residential trees is way safer than felling 100ft evergreens surrounded by several other trees with countless snags and hangers are tangled up past where you cant see. Assuming you know what youre doing and using real gear not stuff from amazon.

>>2773962
Arborists are dumb as rocks and don't know shit about trees.
>>2773967
>GED
so, an arborist.

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>>2773965
>If it doesn't make money it isn't worthwhile
Everything wrong with the world today.

>>2773965
Why not use your knowledge and get into wastewater treatment? Some talks on it towards the top of the thread

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And so /out/ yet again discovers the Holy Triangle of Nature Careers
>good pay
>be outside
>positive ecological impact
PICK TWO AND ONLY TWO

>>2776298
Easy, I choose the first two. I don't give a fuck about the ecological impact lmao. Anyone that does is deluding themselves.

>>2776298
There are careers that exist with all three but they usually fall into one of two categories:
>academic research in the natural/environmental sciences at a post-doctorate level
>GS-fantastic government jobs in some sort of land management, wildlife biology, or conservation-oriented field
Both are insanely competitive to get into, while the second is also incredibly nepotistic and includes about 90% office work or more
You will be much happier pursuing a regular job and doing /out/ stuff in your freetime than obsessing over an /out/ career that would kill your enthusiasm anyway

>>2764125
Thats me rn
I wound up in the supply chain logistics/mgmt industry after having to leave wildland fire for health reasons
I should have just been a machinist or something

>>2776307
>10/10 this dude has a big brain

>>2773559
Trying to get on as an operational forester in Oxford co, ME. Did you have a Maine license?

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>>2776485
>>2773559
(you)

>>2763912
Worse work after mine workers and constructions.

I use wood to heat home and was many times in the woods/mountains and worked. I cant image for full time doing this.

Yiu still have an engineering option in the field but because it involves natural resources, a lot of corruption is there and you can get in jail, killed or have a bad sleep at night for doing something illegal.

i'm in school for fisheries currently. going to work as a fisheries tech/biologist when i get out. seems ideal

>>2777372
It seems like a sweet gig.
You're about to become very racist against the tribes.

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Getting lots of positive vibes from this thread

>>2777482
If you go to reddlt and "say bad things" bout logging in a logging thread you'll be downboated and likely banned

If you say bad things to loggers on a logging page on fb you'll be blocked

If you say bad things about logging on youtube your comments will be deleted.

The media is in bed with big timber and you'll never hear the truth about logging on the TV

Mycologists have been completely blocked out of the logging discussion in the PNW

The National Park Service researched forest fires in the PNW and definitively showed that logging in rainforests increases fire risk--those papers were pulled from publication.

The reality is big timber is now and has always been shit for the environment but all the "open discussion" arenas for people to raise concerns have been censored into oblivion.

There are lots of researchers that have shown that thinning of forests and filling of wetlands contribute to ocean acidification and climate change.

You never hear any of this because, again, the online discussion is dominated by censorship and the TV shills pro timber. Both Democrats and Republican's are unified on fucking forests..

So you see, when loggers come to one of the few places on the internet that isn't heavily censored in their favor it appears to be a minority of voices saying things they don't like but the reality is Loggers and Foresters live in an echo chamber that is pushed by the wealthy to convince them that raping nature (which they profit off of) is good for society. That is now and always has been a lie.

>>2777657
*dude in the WA discussion didn't even know everything west of the cascades is rainforest. Most people that live in the PNW don't know this either.

They're logging rainforest on the east coast as well.

>>2777657
Dude there's been one single person in this thread who said they were INTERESTED in logging, not even actually a logger
You're literally in the middle of a paranoid delusion, none of us are loggers here, go the fuck outside and relax

>>2777664
>Managed forests aren't logging operations
>Land restoration in managed forests aren't controlled by logging cartels
>Dude posting about logging in BC. totally isn't a logger
>The OP image is literally a logging truck

I think the one with a clear mental disorder is you m8. Feel bad about being a bold faced lar and trying to gaslight.

>>2777658
>rainforest
>east coast
Of what continent?

>>2777673
>Hurr de durr the east coast doesn't have a rainforest

Thanks for proving my point.

>>2777671
>The OP image is literally a logging truck
If you didnt recognize that as a stock image you are actually fucking retarded

>>2777680
LOL
>It's a stock image ok! Therefore managed forests aren't logging operations and this thread isn't about logging OK!
>It isn't a real logging truck reeee
Thanks Don Lemon, your integrity is legend.

forestry is a good career if you want to move to california and get a degree in it in order to get your professional license. RPF's (registered professional forester) here make over 100k starting at an absolute bare minimum
out of state experience/degrees dont count towards the 7 years you need to sit the exam though, so gotta commit pretty early on

>>2777782
>Raping nature pays well
You're cancer.

>>2777795
>flagging off archaeological sites, endangered plants, listed animals, and ensuring that logging companies dont break local/state/federal environmental law is cancer
hey man i know you're mad because highschool is back in session but obviously people have to study a subject and work in the industry regardless if they are pro or anti logging
if everyone was like you (retarded faggot with zero power), nothing would ever get done

>>2777798
Or maybe we could kill all the loggers and then not worry about all you listed

>>2777802
okay well good luck with that you dumb faggot, hopefully china ramps up it's plastic production to offset all the wood we use
this is the problem with delusional retards like you, just autistically turbofocused on something they dislike with zero understanding of how it came to be
>duhhh i like trees, so logging bad!!
okay so what do we build houses out of
>metal/concrete/glass
all non-renewable and all also require deforestation and/or environmental catastrophe
>well in my perfect world we would only use tree farms
which is basically what california does, so once again what is your problem besides wasting away from monkeypox

>>2777798
Yes, loggers are cancer--thanks for verifying.
You don't know shit about forests or trees and this is your cope.
>>2777802
Loggers live in a fantasy land where they think they're good people just doing a job. Look at how that dude seeths at the implication he's a douchbag foot soldier for rich oligarchs.

Forests aren't renewable--that has always been a lie.

>>2777806
>Idiot lives in a false dichotomy
It isn't one or the other moron.
>What do we build houses out of
Earhen building is exponentially better than timber houses in every way except difficulty of construction. We now have machienes--that isn't even an issue.

The issue is building code you mouth breathing retard.

You are a typical retard--you answer your own arguments instead of listening to other options.

Typical argument method by foresters. Very dishonest but it works on morons.

>>2777807
i'm not a logger you dumb faggot, i'm a forester who works in utilities. foresters are legally required to prove that they are growing more than they cut, and all of the information is publicly available on calfire's THP lookup portal. in fact, they are required by law to allow for public comment. dont like a harvest plan? show up to the meeting about it and present your concerns to the government oversight which, again, is required BY LAW to respond to every single public comment and address the concerns therein
>>2777808
>make houses out of dirt
how will you make dirt houses that dont collapse in an earthquake-prone region like california

>>2777809
you are a logger
You're delusional to pretend otherwise
You aren't growing more than you cut--old growth adds significantly more biomass annually than the 50 year old trees you log.

>Hurr de durr earthen housing isn't earthquake proof.

That is just one option--there are others. Industrial hemp could replace logging but it's banned federally because you morons would be jobless otherwise.

>>2777810
how the fuck am i a logger
i dont work for a logging company
i dont cut trees
i dont drive a logging truck
i dont operate logging equipment
i dont buck logs
i dont work at the mill
i dont lay out plans
i dont oversee loggers
i dont produce timber
nothing i do involves logging, as i am a forester
>you arent growing more than you cut
feel free to prove that mathematically and scientifically sourcing actual harvest plans overseen and approved by calfire and the board of forestry
https://caltreesplans.resources.ca.gov/caltrees/
please show where old growth is being logged in california, keep in mind the overwhelmingly vast majority of is is in protected areas inside state/federal parks and demonstration forests

>>2777809
>*Required to respond
>*Not required to do anything about it at all
>*Growing more by quantity--fuck biodiversity and fuck mycelial substrate

>>2777811
Oh my bad, you manage the loggers and tell them what and how to cut--you're a saint how silly of me.

>>2777812
>required to respond and address
yep, so if you bring up a claim that the forester or logger is breaking the law, they are required to address that. if they are not breaking the law, then of course they arent going to take action
>growing more by quantity
yep that's how growing stuff works
>fuck biodiversity and mycelial substrate
oh no not my whitethorn brush and invasive blackberry reee stop planting redwood and doug-fir we need more eucalyptus
>>2777813
not involved in timber in any form :) sorry that you dont know what forestry involves! if you went to school you might understand it though haha

>>2777815
>I have nothing to do with forests at all
>I'm just defending all their practices
LOL

I'm sorry you clearly are very good about arguing bureaucracy and don't know anything about forests.

Give me a lot number you're working on and I'll explain to you why you're retarded. Much of the coast of California is rainforest and should be logged at all.

>>2777809
>I work in utilities
ah, I missed that, that's why you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>>2777818
worked in industrial timber for years beforehand :)
never made it out to the gay bars of portland, so i must have just missed ya

>>2777819
>I'm not a logger
>I just was a logger for a long time
And now you're a glorified arborist who still doesn't know shit about forests.

Forests are not a renewable resource and loggers are cancer--thanks for verifying that you're disingenuous as well.

>>2777820
>forests are not a renewable resource
neither are vegetables dude, farmers are fucking cancer
also, pray tell what has given you such unlimited insight on how le true forest dynamics work. you enjoy hiking? you think stackings rocks is heckin neato? it's always inbred dumbfucks that believe they have some hidden knowledge unknown to anybody else, they somehow know more than liberal californian environmentalist groups that oversee forestry/logging regulations kek

>>2777822
>Trees are just like vegetables
I figured you were that dumb. You keep proving me right.

I don't have hidden knowledge--you're just publicly educated and don't know shit about trees or forests and never bothered to learn anything not required to pass your certifications to cut them down.

I very clearly know more than you and most of those retarded Californian environmentalists are just like you--disingenuous assholes in it for the money and give lip service to the environment.

>>2777829
yeah man good luck convincing people california environmentalists hate trees lmao, actually unhinged
>trees are totally different from vegetables!!
uhh, how? both require to seed out to regenerate their numbers, both are farmed by humans, both are regulated, both need time before they are ready, the farmers/foresters have a vested interest in making sure they come back, etc.

>>2777820
>Forests are not a renewable resource
Why not? All around me is plantation pine.
They put it on what was previously farmland.
Before that the farmland was native forest.
Now when the pine comes out, they're replanting with native trees to go back to native.
Seems to be working pretty well.
Birds are back. They put in some sweet walking and mtb tracks because if you're going to that much effort, why not.
If you do it right, there's little long term harm.
If you're talking giant redwoods, yeah, that'll take some time. The rest of us don't have those, just beech or eucalyptus and such.

>>2777830
You're amazing at lying when what I wrote is one line above what you just wrote. They're in it for the money and again you're just bold faced lying.
Thanks for proving me right yet again.

>>2777892
>I don't know shit about forests: the post
I get it, you don't know shit about forests at all--at fucking all. You're dumb as a brick and make money off of deforestation.

Almost everything you said is a half truth a lie or a misconstrued pairing of facts.

The definition of a renewable resource is it can be recovered in less than a human lifetime and a damaged forest takes hundreds of years to recover.

So, you're a liar telling lies and you probably believe them because you never bothered to learn anything other than what you needed to know to do your job and nothing more.

You're in it for the money. Forests are not renewable.

>>2777892
Pinaceae is the pine family.
Pinus is the true pine family.
A Doug fir is in the pine family, A Hemlock is in the pine family, A Spruce is in the pine family.

You don't even know what kind of pine you're working with. You're generalizing "all pines" and they each have totally different forest characteristics.

The one thing they have in common is even a Pinus Contorta can live 400 years and if left alone will average 200 years. A doug fir can live thousands of years and doesn't even enter it's adult phase until the bark starts to change at around 250 years.

That's just the trees, the whole forest ecosystem is layers of biome from the ground up. It takes a hundred years just to build an inch of topsoil and you idiot loggers blast that away constantly.

>>2778385
my bad: Pinus is the Genus of true pine in the Pinaceae family. Even the pine that are short live live atleast 400 years and the coastal forests average 600 years but easily can live thousands... so no, forests absolutely aren't renewable. Old growth also grows exponentially faster and puts on more biomass annually than younger trees.

>>2777830
Foresters do as they're told. If you don't follow the narrative because you actually know anything about forests: you will not be hired by them and you probably wouldn't seek out that job in the first place.

Cutting down 50 year old trees isn't sustainable and it's literally already changed the climate appreciably in north America.

>>2771286
>Who do you think funds these third world logging operations?
People who want cheap product.

>>2778484
It's only cheap because it's subsidized. Timber cartels were created by public funds in the late 90s because they weren't profitable and now they basically pay nothing to the state to log and only pay taxes on the income (which doesn't go into the general fund). It's a huge wealth transfer and a slight of hand predicated on lies.

Cheap product would be earthen construction and industrial hemp (literally a weed)... the reason hemp is federally banned is because it would put most of the textile cartels out of business and cripple the timber industry.

Construction is forced to use timber because budling code forces them too--it's actually very expensive now a days.

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>>2763912
Park ranger or fish cop

>>2764805
michigan?

>>2779653

It took 238 replies to get the one and only answer. Park ranger/Game warden is the best bet for being in nature for a majority of your time and still making 65k+ a year (plus gov benefits) depending on where you live and how long you've been working. And probably making the most difference by stopping minorities from eating the local geese population

>>2765755
Alternatives to majority wood housing.

-Hempcrete
-Aircrete
-Concrete bricks (better than solid pour blocks which crack after 20 years and are much harder to repair, cheaper than clay bricks)
-Hay bale (climate limited)
-Adobe/mud-sand-hay brick (climate limited)

Medieval masons could build 150 ft tall interior cathedral halls without any wood beam support in the finished structure (ie it was all stone). Even a brick/adobe infill fachwerkhaus from the high middle ages and early renaissance used less wood on average than the typical American suburb mcmansion. The only reason the above mentioned things aren't as common in the US is because 1) no one knows there are better alternatives that can be cheaper and 2) US building regulations vary widely and are generally retarded across the board and designed specifically to milk people out of their money to build toothpick houses at inflated prices so corporations and banks can get the maximum profits off of the people.

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>>2780478
Have a (you)
I've known hemp was banned federally because of industrial uses since I was 14 and the first time I did permitting through the city for an industrial renovation relating to a change of use for a non profit I learned then and there that permitting is also more to do with leaching money off of people than safety. Anything not expressly in building code requires an engineering review by a private engineer and even if it is in building code you'll at least need an architect or engineer to create drawings that meet city "requirements"

>>2763912
Ecologist. Get to sleep indoors and everything.

>>2780500
I've never met a geologist that didn't make bank.

cool

>>2763912
If you love forest, cutting it down will become heartbreaking, of course you can replant it and I'm not under and ecofash delusion, the forest must be useful, but heart does care for logic and when you will have to cut down trees that would be ben great place to build shelter under you will get depressed.

>>2763912
>>2763916
What if I'm homeless in PNW
what are some /out/ careers if I never ever want to look at a homeless brown city again?

>>2763946
>lineman
how do I into that work?
HV seem scary though, but probably beats being homeless in PNW.

How about something related to GIS? Are these skills in demand anymore?

>>2763912
get a trade
work in a remote mining camp in canada
i make six figures
lots of skilled trades needed
come on up and work your life away

>>2780313
geese are overpopulated they need to open citys to hunters all the fucking geese just sit in city ponds and eat bread insted of flying south

>>2782864
Your mom just sit in city ponds and eat bread insted of flying south

>>2772256
Not that anon but what path? I'm very obsessed with learning everything about forest and mountain ecosystems and good at physical labor.

>>2780478
>Backyard masonry
Wattle and daub is infinitely more viable in most environments, with no special machinery needed or particular experience, easier and cheaper to build, everything needed is usually on the land already.

If you 100% needed to build a house with on-site materials that were abundant and wouldn't destroy the land you'd just do wattle and daub every time.

>>2778386
It’s NZ. Radiata aka Californian pine.
Grows to maturity here in 20-25 years.
Anyway when it comes out and they replant native it grows back super quick.
Could get some photos for you if it will help untwist your panties.

>>2782985
Mycology or dendrology.
>>2782995
You grow in 20-25 years: doesn't mean you're mature at 20-25 years... clearly not.

I'm not interested in anything from you--you've nothing to offer but delusions and regurgitated nonsense form the timber cartels who's dick you clearly enjoy sucking.

>>2782995
>Californian pine
Pinus sabiniana

Lives 500 years--so you're still a lying piece of garbage.

Forests aren't a monoculture either.

>>2782999
>Mycology or dendrology.
thank you anon that's exactly the kind of thing I was looking for

>>2783012
I knew a mycologist researching cancer treatments. There is another that figured out how to use them for pest control in farming centers--obviously this isn't stuff the food and drug cartels will sponsor. You'll be hated by the foresters because they will never admit that forests are giant mushroom patches that sprout trees and everything they do fucks up the soil.

"Forestry" was invented by the logging cartels because mycologists and dendrologists refused to lie about actual long term impacts Logging has. It took hundreds of thousands of years to build up the soil and it will only take a few hundred to destroy it. All "managed forests" will be turned to desert and the higer up loggers know this and don't care because it'll happen after they're dead.

>>2783034
does make me wonder if a lot more areas were forested centuries ago and they are lying about the ecological history
I think more of the great plains was a massive forest

>>2763916

Also ruins your ear drums.

>>2783036
Texas and Oklahoma had way more forest. The great planes used to have hundreds of millions of beavers (part of the great midwest drainage basin) and what are ephemeral streams now used to be wetlands. It was never a massive forest but it absolutely had significantly more riparian forests and wetlands than today.

>>2783166
I would have liked to see it

>>2771800
after long enough most yearn to get a cosy indoor job, that is if you don't fall in love with the job I guess.

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I'm in college for enviro sci and
>>2772256
is accurate. They don't care about conservation at all, just using new technology to be 1% less destructive and sell it as some charitable green initiative.
>>2772515
i despise surveying but see how it could be fun in an /out/ setting. certainly not a field for everyone.

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>>2772515
>>>2766695
>>2767941

Actual surveyor here ama, one of these anons is right I used to work deep innawoods marking out gas wells which was fucking up the environment. But with this I got to work with ecologists and archaeological contractors and I learnt a lot. There is definitely jobs out there where you would be working full-time with those contractors mapping out their data sets, also I am assuming there is jobs which requires capturing the linework/points for hiking trails etc.

A lot of the work is construction based, but its a very very broad industry, you could find jobs where you just do construction and jobs where you just do hydro-graphical (drive around in a boat and pick up sea/fresh water bed levels) or you could be scaling bridges and scanning them to mm accuracy.

In my experience its a 70/30 field-work/office-work ratio, jobs take a lot of planning and once they are completed the data takes a lot of processing. You also need to be quite handy with mathematics/trigonometry if you want to take the career seriously, you could just get an easy job where you only do GPS work.

>>2782825
>work 21 days on 7 off
>hate your life
>unstable relationship with wife she leaves you
>miss all family activities and social life
>forget how to do your actual trade because mine work is usually dumbed down stuff for your trade (usually)
>work 12 hour days every day and wonder why you earn 6 figures, you essentially just work more
>commit suicide when the work dries up because you don't know what to do with yourself (Ive known 2 people)

This type of work is not permanent its a young mans game and definitely not for everyone

>>2783838
How often do you use a compass vs. gps for survey? I realize everything can be automated but is it?

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>>2783843
Don't really use a compass that often and if I do I use it on my device. Sometimes you lose your bearings and don't know which way to walk your whole life essentially revolves around north.

Its usually between total stations (angles & distances) and GPS (coordinates, easting, northing, elevation) and it depends on the survey and what accuracy is needed. Following around ecologists and other contractors in the middle of the woods would be low accuracy = GPS, but also in the middle of the woods there is not much reception for the device so sometimes traditional methods can still be applicable.

Everything is digital now as this reduces most errors, you can never trust human computations.

tl;dr
You don't really use them often/at all but its always handy to have one on you.

>>2783845
Neat, much appreciated.

next question (you seem to have signed up for this): How long do you have to be in the industry before you can start working on your own and how long do you have to be in the industry before you see return on the educational investment. Pay of student loans or certification fees.. Let's pretend I'm not a total moron and someone efficient in learning things.

>>2783861
To be honest it would take quite a while, there is a lot of theory it may look easy on the outside but there is quite a lot of stuff involved you need to understand why the instruments/tools are doing what they do. I would say like 5 years? minimum if you are switched on.

It really depends which venture you go down but if you want to be a true professional it would take a while. In saying that though why work for yourself? There would be companies which cater to every different branch of surveying

Reasons not to:
>surveying equipment is incredibly expensive
>survey data processing programs are incredibly expensive (Civil3d, Autocad, Trimble Business Centre)
>you need to purchase a vehicle to suit the work (4x4 etc)
>multiple hand tools
>insurances

Don't get me wrong their are benefits to working for yourself but its definitely a long game alternative you would want to be employed for a while whilst you learn the fundamentals.

I will add though I came from another semi-outdoors career and I love surveying. Some days im walking around in gross waterways filled with pollution, in extremly dense shrubs with thorns everywhere.

Other days I am walking around in pristine land at high elevations taking in all the views, walking besides nice rivers obtaining the top of banks and bottom of banks.

I have seen heaps of wildlife also. Surveyors also get paid well. There is usually a shortage of surveyors in most countries also, I have surveyed in 2 continents.

>>2783838
I want to hike and do math. I have construction experience. What's the best way to get into surveying in Pennsylvania? The quickest way?
>archaeological contractors
What kind of archaeological contractors exist? Are they contracted by universities with grant money?

>>2783935
>There is usually a shortage of surveyors in most countries also, I have surveyed in 2 continents.
Are these short term contracts or long term jobs? Sounds like it could be a fun opportunity to go /out/ abroad.

>>2783935
Thanks anon. Very much appreciated.
>>2784038
Not them but archaeological excavations are very political--you probably won't take my word for that but it's true--and the grant money is very tight because history is one of the most propagandized subjects on the planet. Anthropologists have been fired for saying the wrong things about the artifacts they've collected--factually correct but goes against the current (((narrative))).... they certainly aren't well funded.

>>2784038
I am from Australia so I can't speak on the USA but if I were you (and this is what I did) I found a university which let me study the surveying degree completely external and I then found a job as a surveying assistant (chainman in the USA) I then started work as you can guess assisting other surveyors in the company, hitting stakes into the ground, calibrating and sorting out equipment etc.

I surveyed proposed virgin sites with archaeologists to pick up anything of value before the anything was constructed in the area, never found anything crazy, some arrowheads and hearths. there would be both and long term contracts wherever you look. You would highly likely need a college degree to be looked at for international jobs.

>>2783935
Hi surveyoranon. Do survey/engineering firms take weekend warriors? I want to do a little bit of surveying purely out of interest, but only have weekends free because I'm a millwright during the week and I like my job.

>>2772587
There's lots of private non-profits where you can do volunteer conservation work, man. I know the Midwest has lots of wetland restoration and management stuff going on. Get involved

>>2763912
>physical work so get strong
People who say this shit haven't done a day of manual labor in their lives.

>>2771800
is what a person that never had to perform physical labour outside in shitty conditions would say
digging ditches for shitpipes after heavy rainfall isnt better than sitting in dry clothes in an office

I got to run a remote salmon escapement this fall and it was super fun, would absolutely recommend it if your looking for a seasonal. We got paid to take naps and watch wildlife in the middle of nowhere.

>>2772587
I dont care about the environment, beyond the immediate preservation of some wilderness spaces.

>>2785167
I honestly don't know, can't ask to hurt. If they are super busy with not enough staff they can't say no right?

>>2785169
you don't get wrong but you get work fit, i have seen the fattest men be so fucken fit at work its not funny. Once you do the same task day in day out you just get good and efficient at it.

I have worked /out/ physical jobs my whole life and I am not fit but I am not fat

>>2763912
>>2763946
I've worked in an outdoor lumberyard for four years in North Dakora and it will fuck your body, there's a 90% chance of a new guy leaving the job within 3-6 months. I can't imagine how much worst it would be as the guys that gotta actually cut the trees, but they don't gotta deal with loading up retards all day in a "self service" barn.

>>2785250
What's the job title? Lookout here trying to find a perm gig

>>2785404
It was a hatchery tech job, the escapement was part of it. I spend about half the season at the hatchery and half in the woods. My manager said they hire solely for escapements out by fairbanks, I would look up keywords "escapement" or "remote weir." It's all seasonal though.

>>2765839
I just spent a month in Wyoming. It was the emptiest state I've ever been in.

>>2763912
Park ranger, for the most part, involves relatively risk compared to forestry

>>2787896
Relatively low. More rangers probably die in quad accidents that are preventable than work with trees where some other fuckwit can end you thoughylessly

>>2763912
Game warden is a good gig

>>2769403
>pic related is in the absaroka-beartooth wilderness when i was working trails this past summer
how much does it pay?

>>2787898
If you want to die over poached deer sure.

>>2767229
Do you want to work 18 hours a day, 8 days a week? Yeah you'll make enough money to buy a house in cash but you'll never have to worry about living expenses because you'll be sleeping in the cab of the rig and showering at motels and converted cat houses.

>>2764282
>>2782642>>2763946
I am currently a hot apprentice lineman. The trade is competitive to get into, but if you are willing to go anywhere, at anytime and absolutely bust your ass and work hard you can get your start. The pay is amazing, the work on average is very physically and mentally demanding especially when you get into working energized line. The danger is very real even when working de energized line.
If you want to get started in the trade you must first get a CDL Class A no restrictions (manual endorsement). No question about it you absolutely need that CDL and you also need to protect it with your life, so stop doing all non-prescribed drugs (or get good at carrying fake piss all the time) and absolutely zero drinking and driving. Once you have your CDL A you can get into the field. Personally I recommend going to a lineman school. I went to a short 4 month program that taught us how to climb, rigging, line construction, material, etc. It is not required except for some places, but if you can land a groundsman job without just start since the company you join will teach you all of that stuff anyway. Just apply everywhere you see a position open for a 1st step apprentice, or CDL A groundsman, literally everywhere in the country. Also sign the union books as a CDL groundsman everywhere as well. Doesn't matter where as long as you can get started working on powerlines you will be good. The company I work for works in the Rocky Mountains for our main stuff and then we also go out on storm all over the country. It is an absolutely amazing trade and I love it. Everyday is different and you get to learn and do so many different things. Like I said before the danger is very real though, you need to stay aware of what you are doing at all times and also work your ass off at the same time. Also never burn any bridges if you can help it. The lineman world is small and people talk. So always be the person working the hardest and the most teachable.

>>2788273
I don't believe youre hot

>>2788273
I ain't reading allat

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any leafs here? i’m in environmental eng but fucking hate it, mostly because of the school. (community college full of jeet “international students”) hope i can get some innawoods job in conservation out of this.

>>2767355
Wtf is it with you and New Jersey, lol?

>>2772587
I drive flatbed OTR and I don't give a single fuck

>>2772587
Unless you were born and raised on a homestead with your parents administering holistic treatments to keep you alive since birth, most of us are here and able to enjoy /out/ activities due to "the problem" anyway. The best we can do is make personal choices that don't make it worse. A big way is to not have children.

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>>2788608
>A big way is to not have children.
Good idea, leave the Earth to families who don't give a shit about the environment.

>>2788689
My favorite interview with Bill Mollison is where he says the USA is run by sociopaths hell bent on raping nature and that they should be offed for the benefit of all humanity.

>>2788690
*They being the government

>>2788690
>>2788691
Is he wrong?

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>>2788689
>>2788690
picrel. It's honestly frustrating caring about conservation when the major political camps have so much other detrimental shit attached to them whatever ounce of good they promise to do is buried under a mountain of harmful practises.

>>2788759
>(((Immigration)))
And for no reason at all...

>>2777807
>cut a forest plot
>plant trees
>come back 30 years later and do it again
Please either read a book or end your life.

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>>2778381
>The definition of a renewable resource is it can be recovered in less than a human lifetime

>>2778385
>says pine
>well you could be talking about any Pinaceae
no shit for brains when you call a tree a pine you mean a pinus

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>>2780478
>concrete
and picrel is better than timber how exactly?

>>2789912
>>2789909
Yes, you're a disingenuous liar who makes dishonest arguments. That's already been established but thanks for proving that yet again.

Thanks for also not countering my argument at all--try again with facts this time. We both know you wont.
>>2789914
>I don't have a point at all
you got issues.
>>2789917
Yes, you make disingenuous arguments. I expect no less from timber shills who are incapable of telling the truth or making sincere arguments.

>>2789917
You can make concrete from ocean floor sediment. I'm betting you'll assume everyone arguing against you is the same person though.

Love the cherry picking--I expect you to keep doing it.

Alright, you idiots have lost the privilege of this thread.

>>2789917

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>>2788117
$16.50/hr, never done anything like it in my life and i hope to do it again
physically demanding but i got the opportunity to work with explosives, pack mules, and sightsee so it was worth the adventure