>>2771271
Most of that stuff is cheaper than what you posted and lasts long enough. Easier to care for and can stand up to certain conditions better.

>>2771271
there is something to be said about making yourself uncomfortable while outdoors - not so much that you ruin it for yourself, but just enough that you're eager to get back home when it's done. a good way to accomplish this is to take as few items as possible, and to take items that consolidate the functionality of several pieces of equipment wherever possible. it's kind of like ultralight but instead of reducing weight you're reducing volume. once you get really good at it you can do 3 day walks with a < 30 litre backpack.

>>2771271
Literally no one is telling you to minmax.
Most people use a variety of equipment that is never quote unquote optimal. Most gear "elitism" on this board is the few people with serious hiking experience telling newfriends to seriously consider the weight of their kit to the horror of the milsurp/bushcraft types who aren't backpacking anyway. A huge source of tension is everyone has their own idea of what going /out/ really is when there is a huge variety of use cases on top of all the shit posters who don't actually go outside.

Boots are common sense, a knife and/or hatchet is a huge advantage. Making do with primitive tools is hard but not impossible. One good field knife can cut wood, cord, clean fish and game, start a fire, carve fishing spears, be used as a weapon or tied to a stick as a survival spear.

>>2771271
Some people pick up gear because they want to go /out/side.
Other people go /out/ because they want to try out gear.

They are not the same.

>>2771271
>it’s supposed to be challenging, it’s not supposed to be comfortable.
Stopped reading there. It’s the hallmark of the newfag.

>>2771341
It doesn’t make me want to go home but it sure makes getting to camp that much better

>>2771384
I still carry a tarptent and other lightweight equipment for the heavier pieces of gear. I can still manage to backpack with additional, more primitive tools. The idea that you can’t backpack unless you get your base weight down is unfounded and goes again the entirety of human history

I don't use any special gear I'm not into outdoors as a hobby I just live in the woods and like it

>>2771441
been backpacking since I was 12, so roughly 15 years. i’ve spent thousands in plastic to make it easy because i bought into the marketing hype. i’m just having more fun now.

>>2771449
good. petroleum based synthetic materials haven’t existed for even a century. we conquered the planet and mapped new worlds without the need for them. only tourists swear the only way to enjoy the backcountry is to estrogenate your body with cutting edge tech

>>2771453
>petroleum based
Why are you here on 4chan? Don't you have some roads to block with your super glued ass?

>>2771457
all the roadblockers wear paragonia and arcteryx. i don’t care what they produce, i’m just not wearing it.

>>2771271
>it’s supposed to be challenging, it’s not supposed to be comfortable
You are dead wrong, being out is supposed to be comfy, not in the softback "i need all the doodads" sense but in the "manage yourself and make it good" sense. You can be very comfortable with trad type shit and very uncomfortable with super modern ultragay stuff. Don't pin it on gear, if you are not comfortable outdoors it's on you and what you carry has little to do with it.

>>2771450
We know you’re a newfag. It’s funny that you think you can lie about it to us. Spend more time outside and you’ll figure out how to be comfortable. It has nothing to do with consumerism. The idea that you should make things more uncomfortable is absurd. Get ride of your pad and hike in dress shoes if you feel that way; it will be more challenging and way less comfortable.

>>2771467
ADK 46er and sectioned hiked the AT over years due to work obligations. used to do it for sport with a ULA circuit, trailrunners, and counting oz’s. now i do it for fun. it shouldn’t upset you this much.

>>2771472
Nope.
>it’s not supposed to be comfortable
You have zero credibility.

>>2771472
>used to do it for sport with this ultralight gear
Wait, I’m confused. Were you using this gear to set some kind of speed goal? Most people use ultralight gear because it’s more comfortable. “Sport” implies something else entirely; that you used this type of equipment for a competitive or performance reason.

>>2771475
just pay a sherpa to carry you up the mountain. i hear there’s even a service that will beam lights from a satellite so you almost feel like you never left your home.

>>2771271
I bought into the dyneema gear memes. As a result of reducing my base pack weight by 10lbs, I was able to carry 10 additional lbs of food and support my friends on their first backpacking trip, since they had old gear that made for base weights of 35lbs. Not all of us are bushcrafters anon.

>>2771477
distance PRs. i was being hyperbolic with my original point. i still use a tarptent, msr cooking systems, carbon fibre poles, etc. i try to mix traditional tools with modern conveniences. UL started as diy gear and turned into brand fanaticism and cultism. comfortable was the wrong choice of words. i’m still comfy, i just still want to feel like i’m outdoors.

>>2771496
>i’m still comfy
Yet, according to you
>it’s not supposed to be comfortable

I can’t believe anything you say.

>>2771489
i wouldn’t call myself a bushcrafter. i just took a trip to avalanche pass for labor day. brought friends with no experience and was able to provide water with my gravity filter, food, and all the miscellaneous gear for starting fire and getting the camp ready. it was a good time.

>>2771271
>cotton clothin
cotton kills. enjoy your hypothermia

>>2771521
The mantra should be
>cotton makes you uncomfortable as shit
But people are absolute retards who think
>the outdoors aren’t supposed to be comfortable
So they had to go a step further and say cotton will kill you.

>>2771540
cotton is fine integrated with wool undergarments and a decent shell or even a simple poncho. you could even wax cotton if it’s canvas. this is the exact pearl clutching i’m talking about.

>>2771549
>there are caveats that the non-retards understand
Yes, exactly

>>2771444
>can't backpack
Ok and I didn't say any of that either. I simply said weight is a concern while backpacking and most people carry a variety of gear which you then confirmed.
>human history
Yeah no, not at all, people were not carrying heavy packs through the mountains for 5-15 miles per day in human history, let alone for leisure like we do now, as they had domesticated animals that did it for them and long term hunting camps. Pointless post and appealing to primitive man is fucking retarded for something as abstract and modern as backpacking.

It's a simple truth you will not be able to go as far as steep or as deep with a heavy pack as you would with a light one. That doesn't mean you have to only use UL gear, but it does mean weight matters.

>>2771271
>anon realizes that most of this board is larp

>>2771549
>>2771540
the autistic retards dont know how to make a fire

>>2771441
He's right though. If you want comfort, stay home or go glamping in your local cuckpark. What you actual newfags fail to understand is that all recreational /out/ activities are a larp. The reason we want to larp is because we have a deep seated instinctual desire to live our lives the way that our ancestors lived for 99.9% of human history. That includes the hardships, to a reasonable degree. Our ancestors didn't have thousand dollar down jackets and gas fueled pocket rockets. You're basically cheating yourself by relying on modernity to keep you overly comfortable. Without those hardships, you're merely admiring nature. And there's nothing wrong with that, but the more modern gear you use, the harder it will be to scratch that adventurous itch.

Then again, you might just be one of those city through-hiking consoomers who hate every second of the outdoor experience, and are just doing it for bragging rights/ego. In that case, the more comfort the better.

>>2771591
>He's right though.
Nope. Spend a lot of time outside and you’ll figure it out. Everyone eventually does.

>>2771601
On the contrary, it's the beginners who are usually afraid to step out of their comfort zone or be stuck in the forest without their material comforts. As Mors Kochanski would say, the more experienced you get, the less gear you need.

>>2771441
Nah, it's the hallmark of the larper. Once they spend a single night anywhere, they decide cowboy camping in the rain sucks like every other reasonable /out/doorsman.

>>2771604
>need
Did he say anything about purposefully making a few nights in the woods more uncomfortable?

>>2771271
>"gear chasing was killing my motivation"
>starts immediately namedropping his gear
You're on the right path anon but you're not there yet.

>>2771616
No one said anything about purposely making it uncomfortable. Just that you shouldn't buy a bunch of expensive gear because you're afraid of a bit of discomfort and hardship. You should learn how to use the gear you have more effectively. Then you really start to understand what you really need, and what you can leave home.

>>2771620
>be hammock king
>perfectly comfortable
>not uncomfortable at all
>must be doing something wrong because “it’s not supposed to be comfortable”
>disconnect my suspension and sleep on the ground
>open the bugnet so I get eaten by mosquitoes
>much better for some reason you can’t explain but insist upon

>>2771604
>Mors Kochanski
Back in his day retards were hauling cast iron skillets up mountains for no discernable reason
He wasn't talking about not bringing a 2oz bug net to not get mosquito-aids

>>2771625
It's not going /out/ if you don't use poison ivy as TP

>>2771637
>set up camp in a tent
>great spot: large boulders as a wind break, soft ground, perfectly flat, probably never used
>rain pattering lightly on the fly
>dressed in worn out cotton pajamas
>wrapped in a down quilt with my head on an inflatable pillow
>mega comfy

>come to my senses
>move my tent directly into the wind
>be sure to set up so a tree root is poking me in the spine
>on the side of a hill
>ground packed down like fucking concrete
>poke a few holes in my rain fly so I get wet
>get back into my 5 day old hiking clothes
>deflate my pillow

>>2771620
>No one said anything about purposely making it uncomfortable.
OP did.

>>2771658
i didnt say we must make it intentionally uncomfortable, but the constant gear chasing to make it as easy as possible personally killed my drive. if i wanted to stay inside, i would, but i have an inherent urge to explore of my ancestors as they did. its a larp, but i enjoy it.

>>2771601
more vague statements with no elaboration because you think they sound cool

>>2771578
My great great grandfather was one of the men who spearheaded the push to pass legislation to amend the new york constitution to preserve the adirondacks. It was only as far back as the 19th century, but he was certainly exploring for exploration’s sake. I admire him.

>>2771681
What was his pack weight?

why do people get so butt hurt over this? buy good quality that will last. past that no one cares. budget maxxing off temu because jUsT aS gUd is a sad way to die a real miserable death.

>>2771677
>carried an ultralight load
>decided it was too comfortable
>changed because “it’s not supposed to be comfortable”
>posted about it

>>2771720
not the same guy, but ultralight is a meme anyway. I'll rather carry a heavier back that actually has some fucking decent back support and also vents my back, so I am not sweating so much
>inb4 muh knees
stop being weak

>>2771828
>ventilation
See pic
>weak
Post physique (you fucking won’t)

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>>2771842
>>2771828
Forgot the pic, lol

>>2771720
>fall for consoomer ultralight plastic meme
>realize its gay
>start carrying traditional tools
>contemptous glares from gorpfags as i speed by them on the trail
>post about it

>>2771271
>it’s supposed to be challenging, it’s not supposed to be comfortable.
Nah, I wouldn't say so.

Mainly, it's supposed to be fun. If you love bushcrafting, sleeping under a tarp without a pad and making your own equipment from available sources, that's cool. If you like LARPing as a soldier with milsurp gear, that's cool. If you like doing day hikes with friends and carrying 80L backpacks full of beer and idk, carrying a fucking guitar along to play some shitty songs around the campfire, that's also cool.

Caring too much about gear and ultralight shit is kind of dumb because most people don't really need it. If you do less than 150 miles a year or you are hiking for less than 2 weeks in total in a year, shaving off even 4kg off your base weight is just simply not worth sacrificing the durability and spending a huge amount of cash, and if you aren't a manlet and you have some muscle, it means that you probably weigh around 90kg and you can handle a 12kg backpack.

Ultralight is genuinely worth it if you're a lightweight thru-hiker who is racking up hundreds of miles a year and treats the hobby very seriously. If you're just a casual who has tons of overpriced UL shit, you're a victim of marketing.

And I still do genuinely think that mil-surp gear is great for most people, especially casuals, because it's simply cheap and durable.

>>2771851
My personal line in the sand is DCF as a weekender, but if I made $300k/year I'd have it all.
I really enjoyed the process of slowly converting my 20lb beginner walmart/amazon gear to under 10lbs while keeping the budget reasonable (to me) which is was under $1k
luv me spreadsheets, simple as

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if you can’t do the same distances with a heavy pack as an ultralight pack, you shouldn’t be /out/. simple as.

>>2771850
>plastic
Are the people mentioning this sleeping in canvas tents that aren’t treated with PFA’s? Asking because all of the consumerists ultralighters are wearing $300 wool base layers.

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>>2771271
It’s fine and cool that you like to Larp as an 1800s game poacher, but don’t be a retard.

Technological advancement is not a bad thing. There is so much great and affordable outdoor gear and passing it up over “muh alpha male aesthetic” is outright silly cringe logic. Even some of that cheapo ozark trail wal-mart shit is okay.

Posting picrel because I like to share comfy views with anons and yourself

>>2771860
This is perhaps the best meme I've ever seen on /out/. UL nerds eternally btfo. Stay mad weaklings

>>2771677
You literally did

>>2771680
>doesnt understand what being concise is
Not him, but several others did elaborate. It’s called reiteration, retard

>>2771828
>your weak if your knees hurt
This goofball doesn’t realize what knees are yet. Newfag /out/ “enjoyer” who hasn’t actually done enough /out/ yet detected. Ask me how I know.

Why does everyone have to be so autistic about how others and themselves /out/? It’s not fucking rocket science. If you can’t figure it out on your own there’s endless amounts of educational material in regards to it.

Happy /out/ing fags

>>2771681
Based. Adirondacks are so unique looking to me compared to other east coast peaks. You can really get a grasp of their true original magnitude from how much surface area single mountians cover. If time travel were a real thing I would love to see all the Appalachia in its young and viral heyday. Wish I had pics, but I’m phonefagging atm. Only ever been up Algonquin, I don’t live in NY anymore. Would love to do Marcy just for kicks.

Any other kino trials you guys would like to share in the ADK? I plan on returning in the next year or so.

>>2771877
The Great Peaks Trail is great and you’ll get a bunch of high peaks out of the way in one trip. Also for Marcy, the Van Hoevenberg trail starting at Adk Loj will bring up marcy, come down to avalanche pass and hit lake tear of the clouds on the way down. A beautiful tarn where Teddy Roosevelt was camping out when he got word of the President succumbing to his injuries. He came down the mountain and drove a stage coach through the night to Buffalo and was sworn in as president.

>>2771860
based af. I'll rather take only half of PCT, but packed with gear to live like a king, just to mock thrulets.

>>2771843
that's not ultralight lol

>>2771900
Great Range trail actually. Got it confused. There’s a lot of history in the daks, Post-revoluton, New York was in massive debt and began selling land to loggers, miners, trappers, and railroaders. They began clearcutting the forests, leading to rapid erosion of the soil which ran off into the waterways, putting them in jeopardy which would’ve crippled the economy given that it’s a major source of the Hudson and other vital rivers. Lake Tear of the Clouds is actually one of those sources. So they made it into a park, which included the Catskills. That wasn’t enough so the established the APA which allows ecomonic growth and development in the daks but guides it to less obstructive places as to not put the natural landscape in danger. More than half of the land is private still. The original plan was for the state to eventually buy it up but it proved too expensive. The history of the natives is also interesting, as it is generally believed that the Algonquin and Iroquois never settled the land as it was too rugged and instead used it as a hunting grounds.

>>2771867
Beautiful pic, anon. Having gear that isn’t silpoly doesn’t mean its alpha male bullshit. It’s just personal preference. You should keep exploring nature and avoid trying to own chuds online.

>>2771911
You’re right I am mad bored with nothing to do today bc I’m sore, but I’m not trying to own anyone anon I just get carried away with 4chan buzzwording. I just think everyone being nitpicky about how people /out/ is gay (proceeds to shitpost)

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>>2771867
Forgot to include a photo. This was on Gothics. The alpine tundras are truly something special.

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>>2771910
I love mountain school history an NY state history since it goes back to literal pre colony times.

Thanks anon :^)

You are rewarded with kino ABSOLUTE UNIT mantis

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>>2771913
Outstandingly beautiful shot anon. Hope you enjoyed every second. It looks like a viking movie backdrop

Here is more of what I got

>>2771915
Sorry, phone fagging atm >>2771913

>>2771851
Two counterpoints, sorta. 1) Better performing gear is often also often lighter. Agree that most will see diminishing returns for things like DCF but for say a sleeping bag a good price will be a decent down fill. That often nets a lighter bag which gives you less volume, and often that results in bringing a warmer bag because a cheap synthetic bag for most temps is huge and heavy. A decent tent can let you bring a 2p for yourself that isn't 7lbs or steered to taking a smaller 1p. It doesn't take much additional cost to get a lot back and honestly for 10 days in the woods most people spend more on a hotel room.
2) 12kg/26lbs total pack weight isn't all that bad but consider that most 'cheap/heavy' gear could net a 12kg base weight or more, before food/water.

1 night and less then 10 miles do whatever but if you spend any time out might as well dial in a little. Less weight in one item at least means you have more overhead for others.

>>2771271
It depends on what you wanna do. When i go trekking and wildcamping in forests and lowlands i pack a lot of shit and use a gigantic old polish miliatry backpack. When i go hiking on a long trail like more than 100km,in high mountains, i grab my ospray back, pack extremly light stuff, like 300g tarp, non-synthetic sleeping bag, high quality wool socks, underwear etc. On realy long and difficult trails it's way better to use expensive high-end shit. It's just retarded to tell peaople they need that for a short hike or regular wildcamping. Unless you're doing long-distance hikes use whatever you can afford and save your money

>>2771908
>1 lb 5.4 oz
yes it is lol

>>2771908
Yes it is. The fact that you even know what it is to look it up proves you’re just shit posting.

>>2771908
>>2771828
>not the same guy
that’s not me, retard.

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>>2771917
Me too, anon. Are you able to reach the top of that plateau? Here’s one from the presidential range of the white mountains.

>dress in uncomfortable clothing
>never actually go /out/
>proclaim superiority of gear you never use
we all went through that phase, I have a paid of army boots that didn't fit me and gave me terrible blisters which ruined my hikes, a hatchet I carried for no reason, and a knife that scared women off trails.

>>2771860
>ultralight nerd brings a bitch pole
Sounds about right.

>>2771620
Once you figure out what gear is optimal and gotten some basic conditioning (good sense of balance, no weak ankles, etc.), going outdoors shouldn't be uncomfortable or difficult. Yes, it might be uncomfortable at first, but if it continues being uncomfortable, then you fucked up.
It doesn't even need to be expensive gear, it just needs to be gear that works.
>Oh but my ancestors were uncomfortable
Your ancestors who went outdoors were also gearfags who wore and used whatever worked for them and mostly did things that were comfortable. If they were uncomfortable, then they probably got an infection and died in a ditch.

>>2772069
More miles than you. More summits than you. You’re just weak

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>>2771450
What does this even mean? The trendiest, most expensive gear is wool and has been for years. See pic; you know it’s trendy bullshit because 75% of their male models are black. $135 for a zip up wool fleece, but please tell us more about how synthetics are the popular consumer must-have. Synthetics have always been poorfag cope.

>>2771271
You should post pictures of your old gear and your new gear side by side and tell us why you hate the old stuff (what makes it gay) and why you like the new stuff.

>>2771873
I remember when i first started out and googled “best backpacking gear” and started buying all the sponsored reviewed shit. I hope you get past that before your tissue paper shelter is torn by a small breeze and you freeze to death because you had no recourse after cutting all “non-essential” gear to keep a sub-10 base weight. When, by some miracle, a UL redditor finds themselves in the backcountry, their deaths always bring more restrictions on the rest of us.

>>2772113
>I remember when i first started out and googled “best backpacking gear” and started buying all the sponsored reviewed shit.
yet anyone but you in this thread is the retard?

>>2772114
I was a young teenager and that’s exactly how you end up with a UL loadout. Keep shilling your favorite brand’s gear, I’m not buying.

>>2772115
>keep shilling
unfortunately for you that was my first post in this thread. teenager or not, it's mind boggling to me how people like you actually exist. nice that you don't devour UL marketing anymore but now you're probably spending your money on other memes instead. i still own and use most of the gear i bought when i was a teenager by the way, and i couldn't even tell you how much it weighs, nor do i particularly care. maybe try not seeing everything through a black and white lens for a change anon.

>>2772118
>be 14
>tired of using dad’s old gear
>look at forums and reviews for gear recommendations
i cant believe anyone would do this

>>2772113
None of this is true.

>>2771271

Full grain leather boot are THE BEST for anything from work to hiking to hunting etc. etc. etc.

The problem is that they are not available new(the original HQ ones) to civilians.
Because they last at least 5 years up to 10 when used daily. That is not good for companies that survive from sales.

The stuff you really want is always unavailable.

>>2772137
You can order those boots straight from Steinkogler brand new. They don’t manufacture for the Austrian military anymore as the contract was given to a company that makes them for cheaper with subpar materials. The only issue is, if you’re in the states, you have to use a proxy shipping service and it typically takes months to get them in.

>>2772121
>look at forums and reviews for gear recommendations
>fall for "sponsored reviewed shit"
these don't have to be mutually inclusive. how much of his own money can a 14 year old spend on this shit anyway

>>2772137
Yeah its so hard to find leather in America

I mean its not like I could just google leatherworker or something
No only autistic austrians can see leather into boots its a special unique skill

>>2772168
No one said you need to buy it from Austria. It fit what i was looking for. A time-tested full grain leather boot with a goodyear welt sole, specifically made for trekking. If you can get it custom made in the states for a comparable price, go for it.

>>2771457
He literally said that petroleum is based. Why tf would he protest against it you mong

>>2772110
But that would require him to not be larping

>>2772115
No, most people get into UL gear after getting their ass kicked fighting gravity in the mountains or over distance a few times. Most people aren't stupid enough to drop thousands of dollars on a hobby they have no experience with

>>2772241
It’s a slow process. You work to assemble gear and continue doing trips and figuring out what you need as you go.

>>2771271
>gear thread

how many shitposts seething about UL are in the catalog now? thru hikers live rent free in this boards head

>>2771271
I've lived innawoods for 14yrs & never use any of those things. Knives & axes are larp gear. Those tall lace-up leather boots look like dom gear

>>2772409
>dom gear
Funny now that you say it everything about OP and his image screams performative masculinity

>>2772411
I haven't been on this board in years because most threads were like that. I was hoping it might've changed. Nope
Maybe I'll get myself banned for posting cartoon deer pussy again

>>2772412
Yeah I came back after a hiatus for some reason and it's only gotten worse

>>2772409
i’ve never used an axe? you’re a retard

>>2772411
>performative masculinity
ywnbaw

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>>2772731
Guys who have to use LARP gear as some kind of bolster for their egos are way closer to trooning out than guys who just like to go /out/, cry about it

>dom gear
>performative masculinity
>trooning
You're all fucking retarded, you do get that right? You seep internet addiction from every pore.

>>2772748
>sees leather boots
>immediately begins fantasizing about sub/dom fetish
ultralight. not even once.

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>>2772816
boots, axes, and knives are larp and no one actually uses those. i’ve survived for 30 years in the woods and never touched any. anyone who does is an ego-filled alpha male chud. you must enjoy the outdoors my way and buy the plastic. pic related

>>2772851
>pic rel

What do a bunch of AIDs patients have to do with anything

>>2772109
"fleece" =/= wool. Your pic's fully synthetic as are patagonia fleeces, rei, etc. They release a ton of microplastics when you wash them. I take care of mine and wash it as little as possible but would like a wool softshell instead. I'd still say wool is popular but not as popular as you claim.

>>2772850
t. epic beard & whiskey enthusiast

>>2772904
>more fantasies
You really can't help yourself, huh?

>>2772908
wow bro your only argument tactic is the hermeneutics of gay suspicion you sure showed me but you still have to buy things to feel like a man instead of just being one

>>2772851
You have never done any serious amount of hiking unlike everyone in that picture

>>2772854
In current year people who don't use merino baselayers innawoods are either poor, uninformed, or day laborers.

>>2772930
>effeminate pseudo-linguistic rambling
Nah, I just do what I do. You're here obsessed with what other men look like and having gay fantasies about it.

>>2772946
nice projection retard. you're posting in a thread whining about what other men look like in case you forgot

>>2771271
I like how you say you “hate gear consumerism” yet you say “yeah bro I love my [gear item] bro you’re buying the wrong gear you just gotta get this [gear item]”
You are no different than the people you’re making fun of

>>2772947
>i wear boots
>"HOW DARE HE WEAR BOOTS, IN MY MIND THATS A SEXUAL THING"
How am I projecting? You have a very strong opinion about the shoes of other men and you have immediate sexual fantasies about them. Pretty gay.

>>2772964
im not that poster retard
meanwhile every post you make is calling other people gay
not hard to see how thats projection

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>>2771271
HELL YEA BORTHER THE ONLY THING MISSING FROM THIS EPIC BUFFET OF MANLINESS IS A NICE BLACK RIFLE COFFEE COMPANY COFFEE DRINK AM I RIGHT?

>>2771867
You checked out that quartz vein, yes? Looks like gold-bearing lode.

>>2772969
Thanks for critiquing my argument. Now join the rest of the faggots.

>>2772974
>I have to actively try to be manly but ur gay lol
what argument? lmao

This thread is just more proof that the closet cases really do love to accuse everyone else of being what they are. Just come /out/ already anon this is a safe board for the non-heteronormative and gender non-conforming xeople like you

Buy once, cry once.

>>2772987
You know this isn’t the case
These consumerists thought process is more like
>oh god oh fuck what should I buy????
>reddit which of these pieces of gear is better????
>ok I guess I’ll buy this one
>oh god oh fuck someone just said that their tent is better than mine online!!! Guess I gotta upgrade again!!’n

>>2771271
Didn't read but those boots are legitimately long lasting and much cheaper than some much worse boots. Great for when the lack of cushioning is no problem to you or you expect some sort of civil war without boot resupply (looking at you murritrumpers).

>>2772930
>wow bro your only argument tactic
>>2772977
>what argument
No matter your mental gymnastics, obsessing about my shoe choices and fantasising about sexual activities in response is very objectively homosexual.

>>2772904
You’re describing the average hipster ultralight fanatic. Don’t you have folk music to listen to and an IPA to drink?

>>2772971
Using regular tools and boots that have been the norm forever is manly larp. don’t you know you should buy epic gear my favorite youtuber recommended? it’s genuinely an impossibility that anyone is capable of going on long distance trips with a base weight over 15 lbs because exercise and conditioning is a foreign concept to you. A 1lb axe shouldn’t weigh you down, anon.

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>>2771625
>>2771654

yes
i just carry a mora companion and an opinel
cheap as shit clothes (what i always wear)
and a cheap backpack

>>2773009
t. can't stop bringing up homosexual fantasies
Deep throat your axe already buddy. Let's see if you can make another post without calling someone else gay.
>>2773042
>A 1lb axe shouldn’t weigh you down, anon.
And here you have definitively exposed yourself as the penultimate larper that anyone with actual experience can immediately intuit, as no fucking axe is that light, and especially not any of the trad shit you are sucking off so desperately ITT. I am certain that if you actually own any of this shit (obviously not the axe) you have never taken it through any kind of serious terrain or logged anything more than 5 miles at a time. You are probably a fatbodied kid who should stop posting here and actually get some outdoors experience.

>>2773677
>You are probably a fatbodied kid who should stop posting here and actually get some outdoors experience.
To be fair that’s 90% of the board. In damn near every thread we see people making accusations that other Anons are weak, but you never see anyone ever post a picture proving otherwise (except me, but I never accuse anyone of being fat, skinny, weak, etc.). “Posting physique” is an unwritten rule; when you claim someone else is weak, it’s on you to prove that you’re not.

>>2773711
NTA but people shouldn't have to "post physique" every time they call other anons out

>>2771271
OP you're still talking in product names. You bought some pioneer era things but they aren't just a pair of boots, they're fancy-named Austrian ones, and then axe is a hultyfulty whickywhacker 2.0.5 (special edition).

Stop consooming, upgrading. It's like picking at scabs.

>>2773677
the outdoor axe is 1lb retard.
>>2773718
modern boots and modern axe are not pioneer era equipment.

>>2773715
Calling someone out and calling someone fat/weak aren’t the same thing. I mean, you have to understand that, right? There’s simply no way you’re that retarded yet still able to read. Saying someone is fat is just a baseless accusation. It’s not “calling someone out.”

>>2773830
>1lb axe
then its worthless
a basic bitch boys axe is is almost 4 lbs, that shit is either a hatchet or worthless for any serious work, the whole point of an axe is a weighted blade

>>2773711
>but you never see anyone ever post a picture proving otherwise
id settle for OP posting a picture of his gear he likely never uses instead of using product images from websites

>>2774000
i’ve lived in the woods for 13 years and never used an axe so i wouldn’t know

>>2773830
So it's just a toy then and not a very trad one either, you just like the aesthetic which makes you more of a larper than any of the hippies dressed in neon (who actually pound trail) you are seething over. Those boots will take you 20 minutes to change socks and have fuck all for drainage meaning they are worthless shit for hiking anywhere where moisture or overheating is an issue, which is 90% of the outdoors with full grain leather mid calf boots. Your goofy kabar/bowie hybrid is similarly impractical and chosen for aesthetic reasons and yet is the kind of thing exclusively owned by people who have bad taste. You aren't even doing the consumerist search for authenticity correctly.

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>>2771271
based
embrace ultraheavy camping

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>>2771867
neglecting aesthetics is globohomo.
My best boots look like those in OP image, cost about £10, 1980's british army boots. as comfy as my >£100 scarpas.
>>2772748
I bring an axe with me every single outing, it always ends up having a use I never expected, or helping out one of the guys in some unexpected way.
And if you aren't bushcrafting or getting connected to nature more than just standing in it, what's even the point of going out? You're just an inny.
There's two different levels and your shitty ultralight plastic "hike the trail" in your branded crap one is bullshit sight-seeing. It doesn't count as touching grass unless your bare skin touches something natural FOR A REASON.
e.g. I have to chop this firewood for warmth tonight or i will freeze to death.
or even as simply, i have to pick this bunch of grass to use to clean my pot out, and now i will sit on the grass and enjoy the sun while i eat what i just cooked, on that firewood.
OP is more of a real outdoorsman than all you whining faggots.

>>2772971
never had that can coffee until the ollie's near me had a bunch of 24 packs of it for $3.49 each which i took a gamble on and bought well over 100 cans total. now I have a fuckton of it and while the coffee itself is mediocre having a supply of easy to pack cans of energy is very nice and i wish cheap canned coffee was more prevelant, sseems the onl;y other option is the canned starbucks stuff which is $3 for ONE can

>>2774090
>Those boots will take you 20 minutes to change socks
The laces are hooked at the top. It takes all of 5 seconds more to untie and 20 seconds more to retie than a normal low boot.
>fuck all for drainage meaning they are worthless shit for hiking anywhere where moisture or overheating is an issue, which is 90% of the outdoors with full grain leather mid calf boots
Leather boots are perfectly fine for temperate climates. Many hikers wear modern leather boots, me included.

>>2774191
>if you aren't bushcrafting or getting connected to nature more than just standing in it, what's even the point of going out?
When you have to cross multiple ridge lines while wilderness backpacking for a week at a time every ounce matters. I brought an axe once and never made that mistake again, it stays in my winter camping kit now. A gomboy saw is a much better option in terms of weight and space while preserving most of the wood processing ability of an axe, and many just use a knife and their hands instead. I rather have extra socks and more food than meme equipment that looks nice strapped to my pack. If you are hiking in combat boots you are more indoors than anyone with even the most entry level backpacking set up and need to stop posting like you aren't a fucking tourist because you roll around in the grass 5 miles from the trailhead parking lot.
>OP is more of a real outdoorsman than all you
You ultraweight tards are birds of a feather alright

>>2774191
>And if you aren't bushcrafting or getting connected to nature more than just standing in it, what's even the point of going out?
Standing in nature is fun for me, thank you very much.

>>2774200
I've used midcalf boots before, you are greatly understating don/doff time even with lacehooks, and even the most well oiled/treated leather pales in comparison to modern waterproofing treatments. Modern leather boots are a far cry from the sweat buckets OP posted, I'm sure they are fine for mild hiking but if you have to live in them for days at a time you will be having a bad experience inevitably, footwear is one of the most important gear choices and sucking off something impractical because it looks nice is something experience beats out of you over the years.

>>2774210
>Modern leather boots are a far cry from the sweat buckets OP posted
What exactly is the difference?

>>2774210
>modern waterproofing treatments
No such thing
It's all just goretex. Which works well enough I guess but breaks down eventually. Meanwhile OPs leather boots last literal decades.
> if you have to live in them for days at a time you will be having a bad experience inevitably
I've always done fine with my leather boots, which admittedly are only ankle high.

>>2774090
It’s a fine axe and plenty capable. It has limitations but we’re not chopping trees in the backcountry. The boots take seconds to tie and untie and have taken me over summit after summit in all four seasons. Throw on some heavy wool socks and tuck your pants into the boot and you won’t have an issue with weather. As for a knife, I typically bring a mora and either a case or an opinel. Every ounce only counts when you don’t condition properly. You can hike just as far even if you don’t buy the lightest gear, anon. I’m on a trip /out/ in Montana and am amazed you nerds are still seething about how I prefer to enjoy the outdoors.

>>2774210
The hubris of ultralight faggots to claim anyone who backpacks differently from them is due to a lack of experience. Waterproof boots get waterlogged and never dry. Anyone who gets outsidinstead of pouring over spreadsheets is aware of this. You’re talking out of inexperience and your gear isn’t enough on it’s own to give credibility.

>>2774210
>Sweat buckets
With unlined leather boots you just need to pick the right socks for the job. With the wrong combination you will have wet feet and blisters, but the right combination will wick away sweat and prevent friction.
>don/doff time
Just switch your socks when you need to take a break, it shouldn't take you more than 3-5 minutes for the whole thing if you're switching two pairs of socks. Maybe if you're wearing gloves it'll take you more than 20-30 seconds to lace up a boot, but that's just practice.
>modern waterproofing treatments
Wear some Goretex socks or outright wear some breadbags then. Boots don't have to be and should not be permanently watertight unless you are wading.
>Live in them for days
Unlined leather boots are genuinely a lot nicer to wear over longer periods than modern GTX membrane footwear that will never stop being wet and can easily end up with a hole in the membrane you don't notice until you're off in the middle of nowhere and haven't had dry feet in 3 days. And all the lining being in one inseparable wet piece means that you could wake up to your boots being frozen completely solid.

>>2774216
Look at leather hunting boots for a better idea of what is possible at a much lower weight
>>2774221
I was referring to goretex yes, which sheds water better while retaining membrane permeability
>>2774233
>we’re not chopping trees in the backcountry
Which begs the question why are you even bringing an axe then?
>condition properly
You guys love this lol as if you can't pack light and be in shape instead of being in shape and sandbaging yourself with overly heavy bullshit. I'm not even UL but I have more than enough experience to know pack weight is not something merely overcome by conditioning
>>2774238
>Waterproof boots get waterlogged and never dry.
Skill issue
>inexperience
I guarantee I've been in the wilderness longer and further than you
>>2774248
Sock choice is essential for every boot and it doesnt make the problems with mid calf boots go away. These kinds of boots are unnecessary for all but the most demanding environments which you likely aren't getting into with no regard to what things weigh.
>3-5 minutes
The whole process is tedious and disincentivizes changing socks as often as you should. There is a reason people have moved on to lighter more breathable faster lacing footwear
>modern GTX membrane footwear that will never stop being wet
This is only true for entry level shit lots of mountaineering boots have removable liners or the ability to dry rapidly, speaking from experience when an unlined boot gets wet the moisture never stops being a problem either and the lack of padding means it will fuck up your feet faster too, if you run out of dry socks you are fucked

>>2774272
>I’ve been in the wilderness longer and further than you
what gives newfags this kind of confidence?

>>2774272
Can you tell us what these magical boots are that are waterproof, don’t get hot, dry rapidly, and take seconds to take off and put back on? I will buy them if they exist

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>>2774283
I've been fortunate to go on a dozen or so weeklong wilderness backpacking trips in about half as many years after getting into this activity a decade ago and I've been on/off of this board since before it completely went to shit. I started out with cheap & heavy milsurp and used old school gear and made peace with shedding it after lots of sweat and blood and frustration.

All this butthurt is unnecessary most of the time because people have different ways to enjoy the outdoors, but when you are tackling serious distance and elevation you genuinely feel every gram you are carrying, no one is telling you to buy UL shit to day hike in but pretending it doesn't have tremendous utility is just so absurd. I don't like the consumerist culture around it either but dismissing weight concerns as a factor is foolish.
>>2774295
Best pair of boots I've ever used were Arcteryx Bora 2s that have the aforementioned removable liner, but I have had great experiences with Lowa and Kenetrek boots as well. I've even backpacked through arid marshland in wellies, and there isn't really anything dryer or faster to don/doff in existence than those, although for that trip I may have been better off doing what the thruhikers do and just wearing trail runners that dry immediately, muck boots are also good for the swamps in Michigan that are very wet until the freeze sets in.
>waterproof, don’t get hot, dry rapidly, and take seconds to take off and put back on
Most modern high end boots of an appropriate insulation level for the climate you are in and that are treated with goretex do all of this trivially.

>>2774377
haha
>treated with goretex
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Give ‘em the old Goretex treatment!

>>2774377
Curious: how is the goretex treatment applied? Sprayed? Dipped? Hydrolyzed?

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>>2774382
I imagine it's sprayed at the factory like most/all DWR gear as anything else would be a waste of material. It does have to be re-treated over time but all boots require maintenance if you want them to last anyway.

>>2774377
Reasonable response. I appreciate it. I agree, getting upset about how others enjoy the hobby is silly. Theres no objectively right way to go about it and whatever works for you and gets you outdoors is what matters. Just people getting outside and learning to appreciate nature is a good thing. But threads will inevitably turn into a shit-flinging contest on here and i’m not above it.

>>2774382
Modern goretex is a 2 part system with the inner membrane on the boot being the waterproof part. On mine you can see a white liner. The outer part is as other anon said a water-repellent treatment that will wear down. Danners makes a great leather treatment for that.

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>>2774429
Yeah man, at the very least everyone here has a fondness for the outdoors, and hell sometimes the shit flinging can be fun when it isn't exhausting lol. That said a lot of the passionate disagreement on this board could be ameliorated by people remembering that not everyone is a backpacker or a bushcrafter, and that there is valuable knowledge in every outdoors discipline.

>>2774203
>When you have to cross multiple ridge lines while wilderness backpacking for a week
why yes, when you move the goal posts like that, i suppose you're right.

>>2774429
>Theres no objectively right way to go about it
Think there's enough skeletons laying /out/ there that would say otherwise lol
But yeah, most of the discussion (read:shitflinging) is about optimization and correcting noob mistakes. The issue is the noobs and larpers are emotionally attached to their suboptimal gear purchases/loadouts.
Example that comes to mind is all the aussies I've encountered buying $500 8lb swags for backpacking because "tents are too hard to set up"

>>2774629
There’s wrong ways to go about it but there’s no single right way, no matter what your favorite sponsored youtuber tells you. Gear you believe is optimal will have just as many folks saying it didn’t work for them.

>>2774613
It's not moving goalposts when backpacking and mountaineering are two of the most quintessential outdoors activities anon. There are more options than just bushcrafting to be immersed in nature. In the post that comment is replying to anon is being an elitist about how anyone who isn't making furniture in the woods with his axe isn't really going out, while also stating that he hikes to his bush hut in combat boots. My reply was perfectly in line with the post I was responding to

>>2774629
>$500 8lb swags
Why does it cost so much if it's so heavy? Marketing?

>>2774671
Yup, they market them for their "toughness" so they can still make them out of waxed canvas.
The whole swag market is some collective national-pride hobo-larp thing down there, they get irrationally angry just hearing the words "tent" and "headroom".

Car camping on the weekends? Whatever, larp away, but people genuinely strap them to their packs and it's painful to watch.

>>2774665
nah mate you just decided what the standards are, what the specifications are. yeah, if you're doing a ridge or a big hike up incline, then yes, heavy weight makes it more difficult but, i will quote OP;
>it’s supposed to be challenging, it’s not supposed to be comfortable.
You can do backpacking and mountaineering with a heavy weight, I do. Who even said we're doing a big incline or a long hike or lots of ridges? you just set your own goal posts. fuck your shite modern camping gear, it is shit and anyone who uses it is more disconnected from the outdoors than any other kind of gear.

>>2774684
>selling waxed canvas for that much money
Downright criminal tbqh
>>2774691
Well good thing I'm not replying to the OP I'm replying to the guy who explicitly said you can't enjoy nature unless you are bushcrafting.
>more difficult
Have fun destroying your body carrying unnecessary weight up and over 4k feet repeatedly. If you aren't a larper and actually repeatedly do this you aren't tough, you are just stupid and setting yourself up for a gravity injury. People who aren't even straining themselves with unnecessary kit already die in the mountains all the time.
>disconnected from the outdoors
This is such a retarded argument. Having a light sleeping bag disconnects you from nature but a wool blanket doesn't? How about you post some /out/ so I know you actually go outside with your heavy pack and aren't just pretending for pathetic e-clout ego stroking reasons.
>comfortable
Oh and if you actually spent any time climbing mountains you would perfectly understand that they don't need any extra help on your part to be uncomfortable and challenging

>waahh there's no reason for lightweight gear it's just gay and annoying
>whoa bro who said anything about climbing mountains bro? stop moving goalposts
its amazing how retarded this board is

do the backpacking amish ITT have a specific cutoff year for which level of technology it is that disconnects them from nature? or is it purely aesthetic? (lol). if I had to guess based on the larp gear that gets posted its likely the early 20th or late 19th century periods but surely that cant be the case because both of those are well into the industrial revolution. if you are using machine woven textiles instead of things made on a hand loom you may as well just stay indoors

>>2774714
the board makes more sense when you realize it's 60% fatherless 16yos who live within a major metro area with no drivers license, 20% 300lb boomers trying to recover from getting groped in boyscouts in 1982, 10% asian ULgearfags who enjoy spreadsheets more than going outside, and 10% people who can actually walk more than 5 miles.

>>2774716
Not one of them but most are just against non-natural materials. Which is a bit hypocritical because I guess most of them don't take the same care to avoid them in their day to day life, but I guess it's part of the general escapistic nature of it. I myself considered making an all linen and wool outfit just for the feeling, but it would frankly just be more consumerism because I don't wear wool casually.

>>2774684
Is the swagman roll response for bugs just to not care about them? Seems goofy