Western climate is crazy
>>2781852mountains & valleys do that when along a sealook at madagascar
north-central pa gets down to freezing now, meanwhile ~ 200 mi away in coastal maryland, those temps won't come for another month there's plenty of variation in the east based on elevation, proximity to water, shielding by mountains, and other factors
>>2781852You can't even understand Western climate with a 2D map. Unlike you eastfags, we have real mountains. I can go from Mexico to Canada in an hour, just by going from 2,500 feet to 10,000 feet.
>>2781863I can walk to the Rockies in half hour anonBut yes I agree we need a 3d map to show the real complexity of the climate here.
>>2781860What sea is Colorado on?
>>2781852That map doesn't include microclimates, because most mappers are undergraduates who use 10x10km mapping squares. So actually, western climates are even crazier than that. And some of them do not perfectly fit into the Koppen climate system, the prime example is in Arizona (AZ Mediterranean was proposed for AZ because unlike normal Mediterranean climates it gets huge amounts of winter snow like the upper midwest in winter and gets late summer monsoon moisture like parts of India). The Mediterranean sections are mostly forested but there are at least 8 different types of forest in AZ and each has its own kind of micro climate, lots of new climate and biology studies and understanding emerged from Arizona because of this.
>>2781869its still affected by the mountains, which are affected by the pacific & gulf
>>2781852mind your own business, flatlander.
>>2781882Have a good source of info I can look at?
>>2781866Here you go. Now overlay them
>>2781882
>>2781852>the climate in coastal Mississippi is just like southern Ohio!I’m not sure how places that experience yearly white out blizzards and ice storms and average January low temps around 23° are co side red subtropical but here we are.
>>2781981>co side redconsideredanon your post confused the fuck out of me at first
also 23 is not cold kek
>>2781986Average is not a low
>>2781995yes but average low temp
>>278198690 isn't hot
>>2781863> t. Juan Pedro-Montoya
>>2781852God I hate living im Virginia. The wild west has interesting landscapes, Europe has interesting culture. The Eastern US is just boring. The Appalachians are such a cope of a mountain range.
>>2781981Firstly you only talk about winter. There 3 other seasons. And more importantly, those things you don't really know what the actual meteorological definition of subtropical is.
>>2782083That's true too
>>2781902Level IV US ecoregions.https://www.epa.gov/eco-research/level-iii-and-iv-ecoregions-continental-united-statesWRCC (western US climate research), NWS (always keep in mind much of what they present is flawed or biased data, but again looking at multiple sources helps paint a clearer picture of things). https://wrcc.dri.edu/Various biology research catalogs (none of which are complete but look at multiple gives you a better picture), examples SEInet, BONAP, USFWS. Every local region of the US has at least several to look up.Institutes and Organizations that work on these subject matter. AZ is where biome research began. AZ hosts the bulk of national and international climate, plant/biology and biome science research in the US. Principally from its main universities; ASU and U of A are the big two, but smaller institutions like GCU, NAU, EAC, and RS and others also have joint research programs. The biosphere biome research program is also run out of AZ. https://spls.arizona.edu/researchhttps://swbiodiversity.org/seinet/checklists/https://swbiodiversity.org/seinet/checklists/checklist.php?clid=1&pid=1https://reptilesofaz.org/https://reptilesofaz.org/habitat/https://www.itis.gov/https://www.geo.arizona.edu/antevs/biomes/https://biosphere2.org/https://www.desertmuseum.org/books/nhsd_biomes.phpThere's probably at least 20 other links I can give but you get the point. I have about 10,000-15,000 images from the field in about 50 folders on my desktop. All from Arizona. There's an annoying file upload limit on here that makes posting giant files impossible.
I've also got weather screenshots going back more than a decade so I know when the weather man says "record" breaking weather I can call BS on it. And yeah 6 ft (1.83m) of snow in a 7 day period is actually pretty normal for the central Mogollon Rim in AZ in winter, specifically in January or early February and there are at least four separate snowier locations in AZ.
Final post for tonight, and just to let everyone (the organic and real humans on here) know, out is getting raided by bots right now, you will always tell an organic post from a bot post by the bot posts short and properly punctuated non-autistic and generic responses. You will always recognize my posts because it will likely be more detailed and autistic than any bot. I am fairly confident I can compile data better than bots to btw.
>>2781852The upper east coast is completely wrong.
>>2782092>>2782093>>2782094>>2782095>>2782100>>2782125>>2782171>>2782239Damn thanks anon. That's way more of a response than I expected if even any at all. I'm going to review this info about other states too>>2782264The number of posters here is so small they bots will overtake us. Are captchas even any good at all?
>>2781882>late summer monsoon moisture like parts of IndiaThe north American monsoon is not actually a monsoon, and is different from the actual monsoons in the tropics like in india
>>2782384The north American monsoon is a partial reversal but it is such that locations in Arizona and New Mexico and even southern Utah end up receiving up to 25 inches of rainfall from July 1 to September 15th. Further inland states like CO get the short end of the stick because the mountains in AZ and NM pick up most of the moisture on its way inland, although UT and CO get the best access to the northerly north Pacific jetstream in winter and spring leading to average snowfalls over 400" in Co and over 600" in UT (with lake effect boosted snows). Arizona and NM receive precipitation from two oceans and 2 separate jetstreams throughout the year, the monsoon moisture can come from both the gulf of Mexico and the southerly north Pacific jetstream. In winter the entirety of the US is hit by the northerly north Pacific jetstream which is motivated partially by the Alaska grye, and this jetstream also motivates Arctic cold fronts down from Alaska and northern Canada into the mountain states and the plains states in winter, it even is responsible for up to 50% of all winter snowstorms in the northeastern and midwestern US.
>>2782339I don't know how effective the captchas are but I know that when my post number went up by 50+ posts in less than 9 minutes I know it was a bot raid.
>>2781852Almost the entire west coast is rainforest.>>2781860How the pacific ocean interacts with the polar vortex also has a lot to do with it as does relative humidity.
>>2782083Depends on the historical averages. People don't matter--it's all about what the native plants are adapted for.
>>2781852>that much mediterranean climatethis map is wrong, a prediction of climate in 2080 due to climate change, or my understanding of the mediterranean climate is deeply flawed
>>2782339The bots are usually sicked on us by the same people that run the site. DARPA is hell bent on figuring out how to get their bots to lie without sounding like 12 year olds with a learning disability... turns out if you unleash a heuristic pattern reinforced learning system on 4chan it starts to agree with pol more than it pushes (((the narrative))) and so they have to lobotomize the bots and that makes them almost incomprehensible. The alternative is what you see now--endless spambots.
>>2782397It's a weekend and a hot-button topic.I wish there was an army of bots that would shill valid environmental statistics and models.
>>2782400Mediterranean climate in the PNW simply means the precipitation distribution is moved to the extremes--so more wetter winters and more dryer summers: which is what has been happening (much to the old residents horror). It has nothing to do with temperature. The Cedars never used to go brown in the summers.
>>2782400It is mostly a gap in the Koppen system that leads to much of the strangeness in classification for areas of the west, like oceanic climates in the middle of New Mexico and Mediterranean in snowy forest highlands in AZ. This is why you will see a place like Flagstaff, AZ get classified as one of 4 different Koppen types, the more accurate method I've found is to use two precipitation calculation methods and use the best fit temperature method which I've done here >>2782094 and usually most of that huge Mediterranean area and the strange oceanic areas end up as Csb or Dsb humid continental types, even if they are semi-arid in one of the precipitation methods (Thornthwaite in my analysis). Late summer monsoon rains throw off the Mediterranean classification to, because true Mediterranean climates don't receive significant summer rainfall in the Koppen system, like June and July on the Pacific northern Californian coast up to Seattle and Victoria in the north (those are pretty much the only months without significant rain there because of the partial reversal in the south, and in spring in Idaho and MT in the north they get significant rain and snow while the south is dry in May as the northerly reverses).
>>2782407>Koppen system It isn't just the classification system that's antiquated. The entire model used to represent climate system is inherently flawed and very out of date.The current modeling systems completely ignores forest and wetland buffering and downplay the impact of unprocessed surface water runoff.If you see AI weather system models they're 100% based off of patterns and have zero external real world inputs like land, water, wetlands or even cosmic bombardments of charged particles from solar events.
>>2782388A monsoon isn't defined by a seasonal change in rain, but wind direction that then causes a change in rain. In India the monsoon happens because for half the year the winds go sea to land (rainy season) and the other half of the year go land to sea (dry season). Same with other tropics monsoons. The north American monsoon however is caused by heat, which creates low pressure area for moisture laden air to move from the coast, and as such is not a real monsoon. Idc about the rest I just wanted to make clear that the north American monsoon is not actually comparable to the Indian or other tropics monsoons
>>2782412I agree completely. There needs to be a mesh with climate pattern nuances and surface characteristics and biomes. I can give examples from AZ again, a place like Vernon, AZ has the same approximate climate type as Flagstaff, AZ and is even nearly the same elevation but the surface biome in Vernon is Juniper-Pinyon forest while in Flagstaff it is Pine-Oak forest. And in another analysis we could look at Payson, AZ which is on the border of Pine-oak forest like Flagstaff and Juniper-Pinyon forest and chaparral despite being 2,000 ft lower in elevation due to its proximity to the highest elevation section of the Mogollon Rim (due to topographic induced orographic lift). There's also a lack of studies in how water moves below the ground level.
>>2782171People who use almost-identical colors on maps should be shot.
>>2782415Thanks for the clarification anon. I've been through several monsoons and knew they're more complicated than "just a lot of rain" but can't really define "monsoon" in the context of north america.What I do know is the summers get MUCH less rain in the PNW even though the meteorologists claim the total annual rain is the same... they also made it almost impossible to find historic data on annual rain distribution--it's all lumped together now and not separated by month.I've also heard the PNW called tropical but to me they both mean basically "very dry and drought filled summers and much wetter winters" which Is undeniable in the past decade.
>>2782415The Indian monsoon is also caused in part by temperature dynamics. And if you look at the Indian landmass arrangement and the Mexican landmass arrangement you will find similarities. Principally a narrow (relatively) pointed landmass surrounded on both sides by ocean with a larger land area in the north where there are tall mountains. The temperature changes and differences between the land and between both ocean surfaces partially induces the monsoon pattern. The jetstreams play a huge role to. In the case of the Mexican landmass and the SW US, the temperature difference between the Pacific ocean on the west side and the gulf of Mexico on the eastern side is extreme (about 15-25F difference). Most of what we call SW monsoons is actually the northward motion and change in direction of the southerly north Pacific jetstream (the sub-tropical/tropical stream going northward), it can also bend in on itself and send Gulf storms directly into AZ and NM from east to west, although it normally sends moisture of the occidental range in Mexico and into the SW. This is somewhat similar to what happens in India except India has more uniform temperature in the oceans and it is the extreme difference in temperature of the Himalayas and the tropical lowlands that aids the movement of moisture uphill. Traditionally all monsoon means is "season", a dry season and a wet season. AZ and NM have two wet seasons and 2 dry seasons. The end result is something similar in both regions even if certain variables are different. Climates are so nuanced and detailed with so many variables that no models we have to date can accurately 100% predict any weather patterns, and there are multiple methods of recreating them.
>>2782421Oh and the rough equivalent of the occidental in India is the western Ghats.
>>2782416They have the studies. There are extensive geological and hydrological studies conducted by the mining and oil cartels that will never be made public beyond what you can filch from the geology departments. They won't release them because it would fuck up their narrative. Anthropomorphic climate change is a major issue but the DRIVERS of that are what they lie about. Carbon is a byproduct of the issue and they want people fighting over the symptoms not the cause.
>>2782423*anthropogenic
>>2782421I would be curious to see what the impact reduced biomass in the Indian ocean and the gulf of Mexico has on the ocean temperature averages that power extreme weather events. My bet is the massive die-off of plankton is tied to the warmer average annual temperatures that exacerbate weather systems intensified by warm oceanic rising air.
>>2782397Yes this is very strange
>>2781852semi-arid should be a little farther westsubtropical humid should be a little farther north
>>2782426My guess is similar to yours, it would increase ocean acidification and increase surface temperatures in regions (possibly decrease surface temp in already hot places like the tropics due to surface albedo changes). People forget that 70% of this world is ocean and most of biosphere and the climate depends on the oceans first. The biggest carbon sink and oxygen producer (dwarfs terrestrial forest ecosystems) is the ocean and the animals and bacteria that live in them.
>>2782518I am certain the oceans beat out forests for carbon absorption because of the significant differences in scale but I'm not so sure that that is true when measured volumetrically. The North West rainforests (if there was more old growth left) as well as the Tasmanian forests support the most carbon absorbing biomes of all forests on earth but are tiny compared to even the gulf of Mexico. Old growth absorbs exponentially more carbon than (((managed forests))) and I wouldn't discount forests because of overall numbers.Forests are also adjacent to most of the origins of the carbon emissions and the destruction of forests are a major source of CO2 imbalance. The ability of forests to moderate weather and generate their own localized cloud systems also plays a major role in carbon capture.This also ignores the role of wetlands and riparian forests in the removal of chemicals and heavy metals from surface water runoff before that water hits the ocean in the first place...Obviously none of this is modeled in climate modeling systems run off of AI.
>>2781866>>2781863>we need a 3d map to show the real complexity of the climate here.you could easily show climates changing by elevation as a 2d map. Do you know what a contour map is? a 2d map that shows elevation
>>2782734I'm afraid it's not that simple anon
>>2782734Orographic>>2782767Simplicity is relative to the breadth and scope of ones ability to visualize accros time and scale. Part of mastery is the ability to make the difficult look simple and the mundane look interesting.
