It's starting to get cold out, anons. Have any of you had a chance to get your hot tents and stoves out of storage for a cold weather camp yet? I took advantage of some early snow two weeks ago but it is now mostly gone. I was also out for Thanksgiving, it was cold but no snow.
My favorite stove is my Large Winnerwell Woodlander. The most solid piece of equipment I have, solid steel. None of that chinese garbage. Keeps the tent toasty and burns long, minimal wood processing required since the opening accommodates 16 inch logs.
>>2791467
>>2791470
i have a Hellsport 4-6 person Lavvu with the oven its cozy as fuck, i am currently trying to get some buddies together for a trip, hopefully before Christmasthis isnt my exact model, but essentially the same, i have the floor too
>>2791479Does that double walled flue section stay cool enough to not burn the fabric? I had to add a roll of fiberglass to a pipe section in addition to the existing jack. It was getting too hot.
>>2791488ive had the stove glowing red and the seperator stay cool to the touch, honestly a few sections up the stove it really isnt a big deal, i guess thats one of the advantages of having it in the center, theres a bit more length before the chimney touches fabric
>>2791467i don't see the purpose of these things unless you have pack mule women tied to you on a rope, even then
>>2791494ok.
>>2791494If there's snow you can drag them along on a sled. Otherwise you can use them in car camping or while walking short distances.You can also get smaller foldable stoves like the one pictured. It's made out of titanium and weighs less than 3 pounds; folds down flat. The tent was also lightweight poly as opposed to canvas/cotton.
Canoe is king
>>2791467Do they make hot tents in a shape that can withstand strong wind?
>>2791531do you know how windproof the Tipi/Lavvu shape is? it is stupidly resistant, if we are talking mountaineering strength wind, you wont have firewood anyway
>>2791531teepees have been around for hundreds of years, the conical shape makes them very wind resistant.
>>2791467Gonna spend 5 days in the snow with my hot tent the first week of January. Looking good as there's 2 inches of snow already.>>2791479>using a floor in the wintershiggy
>>2791619>>using a floor in the winterBut i dont though, if there is compactable snow, the floor is for the rest of the year, mainly autumn, its actually a pretty neat design where you can undo some velcro and still have the oven on clear ground
>>2791471That is peak comfiness>>2791488What a lovely photo. What country is this in?>>2791469>Keeps the tent toasty and burns long, minimal wood processing required since the opening accommodates 16 inch logs.Literally your wife while you're using your Large Winnerwell Woodlander.>>2791502How do you not freeze?>>2791499Very American.
>>2791635>How do you not freeze?Well, wearing clothes help, sure you might get a little wet especially your feet if enough splashes in, other then that just paddling a fully loaded canoe will get you worked up enough, plus life vests get hot as fuck, and I even have one of the smaller CO2 ones not the old foam monstrosities Anyway, goes as follows>Propper clothing >staying active>have a plan for you arrivel we're you can get warm and dryNot rocket surgery really. Also make sure to piss before setting off, pissing off the side of a canoe is awkward at the best of times, really wet at the worst
>>2791635I posted basically all of the pictures you replied to except the canoe. I do most of my camping in either New Mexico or Arizona in the USA.
Are there any books (or videos I guess) that you would recommend for someone who has zero experience with hot tents or winter camping in general?
>>2791740https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYE8Qe7dtjQThat video goes on specifically about modern winter hot tent camping; if you want some ancestral knowledge, check out "The Winter Camping Handbook" by Stephen Gorman.
>>2791499poly tent and backpacking stove v2
>>2791740Depending on how "trustworthy" the brand you end up buying from, I would recommend setting it up a few times and having something like this the first few nights, especially if you seal the sides with snowMight be paranoid, yes, but falling asleep and never waking up isn't very cash money
>>2791747nice dog.
Gotta get heated baaabbyy
>>2791758drop it like its hawt
>>2791763Hell yea brother
>>2791697Damn, dude. You're rich. Love these shots
I love how this changes pattern and colour every time, honestly more beautiful then most paintings I've seen in museums from Paris, to London, to Berlin
>>2791897is that the helsport stove? kind of outrageously priced isn't it?
>>2791918>priceEh, couldn't care less, it fits my lavvu, got a good deal on the whole package, no I don't remember what I payed, had it for over 4 years now.Works perfectly and both the oven and the tent are easy to split among several people to keep the weight downAnd you know, you get what you pay for. I didn't want some ultralight shit because I pretty much only take this on canoe trips
>>2791932the stove is perfectly fine, it's beloved by many, but as a new buyer i'm a bit miffed by the price relative to other stoves, especially when there are cheaper options these days, made in stainless steel with glass panes. now if i already had a helsport stove i wouldn't see any point in replacing it.ordered the helsport finnmark 6-8 today, hoping it will fit alright inside a norrøna recon pack for all-season base camping.do you guys carry your lavvu tent/hot tent inside a backpack when there's no snow to pull a pulk?i dislike having things strapped to the outside of my pack so i'd prefer to avoid it.>pickerel is not mine but i think it's nice
>>2791942Yeah i always carry internally, but I run a karrimor Sabre SF 60-100 with the rocket pod side pouches, giving me about 125L of internal space which is more then plenty >lavvu tent>oven>wenonah backwater canoe>huge backpackYea I like my heavier stuff, might not be as fast and sleek as some tyvek tent and a smartwater bottle, but it's what I like
>>2791469I have one of these and a giant 6 person canvas tent. However, no one ever wants to come winter camping with me because they are normies. and its a huge setup for 1 person. Can I used an oversized stove like this in a small 1 person tent?
>>2791947i've been carrying a light-ultralight mix of stuff the last few five or so years, lately found myself envious of people with tents that functioned more as a living space than a mere bedroom i.e space to store all your gear, stand upright, stretch your legs, cook real food, wash/dry yourself and your clothes, proper cooking utensils, extra comfortable bedding etc. so now *liveability* is my focus. don't think i even really like hiking to be honest, moving camp 10-15 km every other day is more than enough for me...
>>2791749>falling asleep and never waking up>not very cash moneySpeak for yourself
>>2791948A 1 person tent might be too small for both you and the stove. The stove takes up basically the same space that a person would so I would recommend at least a 2-3 person tent. As you can see here (>>2791470) the 12 foot tipi from ONETIGRIS works excellently for the large Winnerwell on one side, and 1 or even 2 people on the other.
>>2791948I've seen some people modification old ww2 "pup" tents to have stove, but tat that point you aren't really keeping enough warm air for it to be worth it, seems
>>2791947>Yea I like my heavier stuff,>>2791948>I have one of these and a giant 6 person canvas tent.you guys gotta ditch the heavy crap for a 4lb sleeping bag (altho the volume can be similar), there are plenty of serious winter sleeping bags out there nowadaysI would rather be crispy in a sleeping bag than have to be bothered with a hot tent solo, with multiple people it starts to make more sense tho but I've never owned one so I don't really know
>>2792248>you guys gotta ditch the heavy crapi use a Carinthia Defence 4, plety usefull for all ive put it through, i also have the Carinthia Tropen, but thats strictly for cool summer nights, the bug net is nice thoughto be honest, atleast for me, hot tents are more for the, as the youth say "vibes" same reason i have two old Chalwyn "far east" oil lanterns, its just cozy, and when you arent on some distance crunching, granola bar munching, super elite tough hike, its nice to set up a basecamp, set up that iron dutch oven and make a hearty stew.
>>2792254
If you have a torn aboveground inflatable pool, you can just cut into a tarp or just use the material for a tent. Randomly thought about this when I was driving and saw that someone dumped one in the woods by the roadside.
>>2792263For a hot tent?>>2792248I don't really hot tent for the convenience. Like bro (>>2792254) says it's all about the "vibes". I do have an incredibly chunky sleeping bag that will keep me alive in case something goes terribly wrong with the stove (unlikely); but processing your own wood and making it through the night without even slipping into your sleeping bag while it's in the teens outside is a wonderful feeling; even if I have to refill the stove every 90-120 minutes.
>>2792248When going alone, I ditch the tent too. I only use my tent when bringing my wife with me. Was -210C in this picture. I used the OG Canadian forces arctic sleep system and kept nice and warm.
>>2792312this is a pretty sweet setup
Asking for advice here because I can't start a new qtddtot. On topic because I'm taking a hot tent.Which of these routes would you take up a mountain with 90lbs of food/gear and two dogs for a six day trip?>The short route - well known to me but has a 500' near vertical section which is very hard to traverse and deep crevasses.>The long route - 9km over lakes to approach from the north and avoid any super technical climbs. Ice conditions unknown.>The medium route - 3.5km bushwhack over land. Completely unknown terrain and conditions. Have to cross a river.I've done the short route twice before in winter but it is dangerous and scary especially to get the dogs up and a large part of the problem is they refuse to jump over crevasses. To do it safely would take 4-6 hours to do the climb, fix ropes, and do the climb two more times with gear/dogs. On the other hand I'm scared of walking alone on ice (long route) and of heading out into completely unknown terrain (medium route). Idk, what would you do?
>>2792362Forgot to mention that there will probably be between 1 and 2 feet of snow, no cell service, and the medium and long routes join the short route just after the climb, i.e. the 3 routes are more like different approaches to the trail.
>>2792362leave the dogs at home, never climb with a heavy backpack, time spent not in danger is time well spent
>>2792312>-210Cwow
>>279236290 pound pack on a near vertical 500 foot climb with dogs? respectfully, are you fucking dumb?
>>2792452Sure I hold one dog with my teeth and the other clenched between my buttcheeks
>>2792312>anon camped in the coldest temperature ever measured on earth without a tent and kept nice and warmYoure a legend!
>>2792366>leave the dogs at homeMany people have told me this. The dogs will love it except for the hike in/out. It will cost over a grand to put them in a kennel and a week is too long for family. I've done this twice before but the last time my dog broke a nail and bled everywhere going up and it kinda put a damper on things, that's why I'm looking at other options.>>2792366>time spent not in danger is time well spentEverythings a little bit dangerous. The odds of dying are pretty small. I'm looking for advice like "trust the air temp-time-ice thickness charts and don't worry", or "do/don't go overland without a trail because hazards will be hidden/less because of the snow">>2792452>90 pound pack90lbs of gear. So including what I am wearing, snowshoes, ice axe, rope, my dog's backpack, food for six days, ti stove, folding saw, shovel, photography gear. I think 90lbs is probably accurate and actually fairly light, maybe even ultralight for this type of camping in the winter.>near vertical 500 foot climbIt's not climbing, it's scrambling. It's like a series of waist high ledges and deep crevices.>with dogs?again, I have done this before. The dogs have harnesses which I use to help them up and down sometimes. The dogs love it except for the walk in and out.I was thinking the long route would be best for the dogs with the bonus of being able to use a sled but it makes the approach two days long because 10k in the winter is a lot for them especially as we usually don't stop because of the cold. That and I'm scared of going through ice especially without cell service. I know the basics like you can look up how thick the ice will theoretically be and avoid currents like river outlets because ice will the thinner there but I still don't trust it.Advice?
>>2792478>Everythings a little bit dangerousYeah sure, lawnmowers are dangerous, but this is going into an argon gas wired line room and just ripping out shit
>>2792480Well given that lawnmowers kill twice as many people as mountaineering each year I feel petty safe.Also note that the incident rate for lawnmowers of 1 in 1000 is 12.5 times higer than the incident rate for mountaineerers of 80 per million. Source statista, *assumes 1 in 10 americans use a lawnmower
>>2792491>Well given that lawnmowers kill twice as many people as mountaineering each yearno offence, but, do you have brain problems? a tiny fraction of the population does "mountaineering" where as, almost every responsible adult owns a lawnmower
>>27925822.5M people do winter mountain climbing in the usa and there are ~200 reported incidences yearly and 40 deaths (including summertime).Tens of millions mow lawns (35M in the example, as stated), but there are 35000 hospital visits and 80 deaths.You can do the math, I'm not wrong.
>>2791467>It's starting to get cold outOk and?
>>2792686gotta be cozy
>>2791467this seems extremely comfy
Backyard camp. Need snow.
>>2793084It hit -3F at night, a new record low for me.
i'm getting into "hot tenting" for the first time in early spring 2025, i'm going to be using a single-pole lavvu tent helsport finnmark 6-8, i'm waiting for rsstove (the successor company of gstove which went bankrupt) to release their new line before i make a purchasehas anyone here used stones on his stove as a heat battery and was it effective? does it last through the night?
Realistically speaking, how much does this all cost? I'm poor
>>2793234A reasonable stove will run you anywhere from $100-$500. The low end is either heavy, poor quality/durability, or generic/unremarkable. Paying top dollar isn't exactly necessary but a $500 stove will essentially last you a lifetime. You could also buy used here, no big deal.A decent tent will run you at least $200, with some large models reaching four figure prices. OneTigris, Naturehike, POMOLY, and FireHiking are good starter/cheap brands. Buying used here carries the risk that the tent will have ashburn holes, as most hot tents inevitably get regardless of how good your spark arrestor is.
>>2793247Thanks anon, guess I'd better start saving up now
>>2793248No problem anon. For my money, these Winnerwell wood stoves are the best in the market, and also American made, but they are pricier than most. I'm fairly sure this Woodlander model stove will outlive me and several generations after me.
>>2793247Pardon my ignorance. I know nothing about hot tents or stoves. I live in the tropics but it looks so damn comfy. When you say..> Buying used here carries the risk that the tent will have ashburn holesAre the tents a material that can be patched?
>>2793251Sure. It'll just look ugly. Eventually it gets to a point where the tent is more patch than tent. I've had this white tipi for about two years and it's got easily about 60-70 little holes all over that I've used varying amounts of white gorilla tape to patch. You can see several here. The zipper also doesn't work very well so I use a strip of velcro to keep it closed. I don't use this tent anymore unless a friend needs a loaner, lol.
>>2793253Thanks anon.
afaik you greatly reduce the risk of spark holes by only burning dry hardwood (no paper) and having your spark arrestor 70-100cm from your rain fly, the further away the better. it also improves the draft
also i don't understand why everyone burns their stoves red hot, stainless steel begins to glow in the dark at 400C while optimal stove temperature is somewhere in the 250 to 350C range. you're better served closing the damper on your flue slightly and having a slower burn, then you also won't have to feed the fire nearly as ofteni've seen a lot of burnt out helsport stoves and i suspect it is because people like to overfire their stoves
>>2793265My spark arrestor is now just over two feet from the tent, so it's maybe 60-65 cm. The main issue is that I mostly camp in the American Southwest and hardwood is difficult to come by. I can take some with me to the wilds, but in a trip of any significant length I have no choice but to burn the more abundant softwood, but you are absolutely right that you should burn hardwood whenever possible. >>2793267Sometimes it starts glowing before I adjust it down; I let it rip right after feeding so that the fire doesn't slow down. I like to take pictures of it every now and then but I never let it run that hot for longer than a minute or two.
>>2793228>stones on his stoveYou're using a minimalist tent but you're going to lug 100lb blocks of stone with you?
>>2793228I don't know how much effort I would put in providing a thermal mass in that way. That's a lot of weight to move around, and while it may work to an extent I really doubt it would be more effective than say, processing a little more wood, boiling water for a hot water bottle in the sleeping bag, or literally anything else. The only time I've used a hot rock for anything is preheating a sleeping bag or tarp and your stove is already doing that for you.
>>2793288Anon, hot tenting is a car camping setup...
too cheap (poor) to invest in a hot tent setup but want to camp in the winter. might do a couple days in the car or just a regular tent. also considering buying those emergency blanket things and using it like a reflector to sleep next to the fire. anyone with some winter camping experience have any real tips or inexpensive ways for not freezing while sleeping?
>mfw all these retards are going to die of carbon monoxide poisoning in their sleep
>>2793228I'm not hiking far carrying fucking stones
>>2793401These tents are not air tight. The stove itself vents most of the CO through the flue, and even when you're down to just coals the average hot tent is too drafty to ever let CO levels get high enough to kill someone. It is always good practice to carry a monitor if you plan to use snow skirts though. You can get pretty close to air tight with enough snow piled on some tent models.
>>2793401Why do you think that's a good thing? Should they become rappers and drug dealers instead?
>>2791479>>2791720Bought a triple walled flue section inspired by these posts. Will report back on how it works with my tents.
>>2793922good on you, just make sure it fits your chimney, you can always peen it out to a flare depending on material (aluminium/steel) of course
Has anyone here used these little propane heaters? Are they safe to use in a polyester tent?
>>2794087Pic related
took this /out/ last month, split the cost of the tent and stove with a few friends. Went pretty good. Had some embers burn a few holes. Going to put some metal mesh around the chimney cap.
>>2794088>>2794087Yes. That specific model/brand you posted has a handful of safety features that will prevent you from killing yourself with either CO or burning the tent down by tipping it over as it automatically shuts off. However I would still recommend a small fireproof mat to put under, in case you accidentally tip it so that you don't burn a hole through your tent floor (if a floor present).One thing that you should keep in mind is that propane heaters, even that small one, put out a stupid amount of moisture. Your tent needs to be well ventilated while it is on, or everything will get absolutely soaked with the condensation. >>2794099A few implies more than 2. Did you really fit 4+ people in a tepee tent with a stove too? Must've been really really close friends lol.
>>27941064 guys one night, 3 guys the second night. Wasn't too bad, it's a decent sized tent, but the stove is in an awkward spot right inside the door.
>>2791467I want to start winter camping in MN. Are a hot tent and good sleeping bag enough to sleep comfortably if you bring the heat up at night and go to sleep without getting up to add logs to the stove?
>>2794209eeeeh, halfway there i would say, you should definitely look more into something that keeps you off the ground, sleeping pad, that kind of shit
>>2794209You need either a sleeping pad or a cot. Most hot tents are floorless and even the biggest camping stove won't burn for longer than 3-4 hours. Realistically and in most conditions, the stove won't be producing significant heat overnight if you don't feed it every 2 hours for the larger models, 45 minutes for the backpacking ones. I don't mind getting up and stoking my fire, as it's part of the experience of winter camping for me, but if you plan on sleeping through the night I'd recommend the warmest sleeping bag you can get and a sleeping pad/mattress with an R value of at least 5. Along with sticking a hot water bottle in your bag and solid layers to keep you warm.
On a side note. I got one of these heat powered fans as an early christmas present at thanksgiving dinner, and finally got a chance to use it. It works really well in spreading out the heat inside the tent. Can't believe I didn't get one sooner, highly recommended and not very expensive.
>>2794215>>2794275>>2794277Is canvas a better option for retaining heat (thicker) or is it too porous and synthetic a better option? And never seen those fans before I will definitely check those out.
>>2794280To be clear: regardless of what material your tent is made out of, it won't keep you warm by itself. The heat retaining performance between canvas and poly materials is so insignificant because hot tents are usually very thin. If you want a shelter that will keep you warm passively, you need to specifically get something purpose built for that, like the one in the picture by Crua outdoors.Some people call those "insulated tents" as opposed to "hot tents". "Insulated tents" are usually not very spacious and extremely heavy, often heavier than a hot tent + stove combo because you're basically carrying a tent shaped/sized synthetic sleeping bag. These will help keep you warm by themselves if you seal em up, but it's a totally different experience than sleeping in a hot tent. They're also very expensive, the one pictured is a 2 person only and it costs $400. I got my first tepee and folding stove for that much.
Only canvas "tent" I've ever slept in was a cold War era plash palatka 0/10 would not recommend, yet I still own 2, Romanian I think, you can button them together, so you can share your misery with a friend
anyone recommend a good stove? I recently got the annex/stove jack for my tarp setup and I'm trying to keep it on the lighter end. Planning on doing some late fall camping in alaska
>>2794088I did a ~10F night in a normal dome tent with a "portable buddy" which is the next size bigger.Main problems were lack of air flow and that it sucks the propane like you wouldn't believe. The one you posted should last longer on a tank. I got a little battery fan since then I might try this winter to help with the air flow. The thing with these ceramic heaters is all the heat basically goes straight up from the heating element except a little radiant heat, so some of the tent is too hot but most is still cold.
>>2794284Sounds terrible.
>>2794461>Sounds terrible.There are two kinds of people 1. This sucks 2. I like the way this sucks
>>2794509I mean it has its place. In the cold war era Im sure dudes were happy they had plash platypus over nothing. But today…not so much. I prefer my suffering to be modern.
>>2794516>Im sure dudes were happy they had...i sure as fuck were
>>2791467>>2791469>>2791470Are you in Delta Jct by any chance
>>2791467What's the most lightweight camping stove? Im guessing the heavy ones are more operative
>>2795711a tea candle and some tin foil
>>2794087>>2794088The propane heater will put out more than enough heat, the problem is those little green tanks don't last. Get a 20lb tank and stick it in a milk crate, for stability and to clamp the heater onto.>>2794106>put out a stupid amount of moisture.I've used propane heaters in tents and pop-ups while deer hunting in Michigan and only once was moisture a problem, a Thanksgiving weekend hunt where it rained all day and snowed all night to the point it was like 95% humidity in the air.
Whats a typical snow load limit on a quality tent..more so canvas tents with less of a pitch?
Went out on my traditional pre-christmas eve campout. Not a ton of snow since it's been a La nina winter, but it was plenty cold. I bought this new pipe section for $80 but it was well worth it. No apparent damage to the jack at all.>>2795209I am probably as far from Alaska as one can get in this country. Southwest. New Mexico, Arizona. >>2795711You can get some reasonably light titanium folding stoves for about $500. They fold down mostly flat and fit in a backpack. Check out the 3W model for a korean alternative, or the Winnerwell Fastfold if you're feeling American.
>>2796004Based. 20lb propane tanks are goated.
>>2793690Because retards dying is inherently funny?
>>2793084So, like, um. The door/flap remains open?
>>2791467Got out right before the snow. Comfy trip.
>>2796575It's just rolled up on the right side.
These packaged sticks of fatwood are just about the best thing I've found to get the stove started back up when it's real cold at night and you still have a coal or two left in there. Otherwise you need a lighter or some other form of persuasion.
>>2797105Cotton pads + petroleum jelly
>>2797131Cotton balls and Peanut oil, soaks in faster and you can sort of oil a pan with it if you run out of butter
>>2791488Lovely photo, lovely digits.
>>2791467Dome homehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eek45AVW5BEhttps://youtu.be/0B0wPUmZB3UTHE GREATEST INVENTION: WATER AS FUEL! The secret of the HH+ compound to boost electrolysis
>>2791467Anybody use a hot tent as a base camp while ski touring? Also on center pole tipi style tents/pyramids, how do you keep the center pole from sinking into the snow if you are on 6'+ of snow?
>>2793249Pretty sure winnerwell isn't american made. Just a rebrand of a chinese product
>>2798140Well that's unfortunate. I got duped by the Winnerwell USA branding I suppose. >>2798138You're supposed to tamp down the snow on your chosen site to prevent/minimize the center pole sinking, it will happen to a degree in very deep snow however.
Bump. Effects of burning softwood copiously. Cresote blocked almost all airflow coming out of the spark arrestor. Had to get out of the tent at 4 AM to smack the spark arrestor against a log.
I have this tent, it has no internal frame. You're supposed to guyline out each corner to a tree or stake it to the ground but in practice its been such a pain. You need to find 4 trees in a big area almost squared out of the tent will be contorted in a weird way.In THEORY to you stake it to the ground via external pole like in the pic but in Canada either there are rocks underneath the soil or the soil is too frozen. Add all that up as well as trying to tie and tighten precise knots in cold weather and it's a nightmare even for a seasoned canuck. My friends don't want to come out with me because there's so much anxiety and fuss setting up the tent and it always takes over an hour.Am I just bad at this? I'm thinking of building an internal frame with 3 way connectors and EMT piping and it's going to cost me $500, and weigh about 30 pounds. Also I need to buy proper winter sleeping bags and we're at another $500. This is getting expensive as fuck but I really want to get out thereAn expert who used to bring people out commercially INSISTS that I get sleeping bags rated -30 and that you're not supposed to let the stove burn all night. You're supposed to nustle up as you sleep in bag rated to-30 but don't see anyone actually do that nor do I even see any bags rated to that low.idk I'm lost here. I guess I'm asking, do I suck for not being able to set this tent up without fuss and do I really need a sleeping bag sophisticated if I have a woodstove?
>>2799220It's a bushcraft tent so you'll need to do some bushcrafting to set it up. Help yourself a little and get a collapsible/telescoping center pole to take along, and once /out/ find/cut 4 to 6 adequate height branches to raise the guylines up to the level you want them to be. You don't need standing trees, and having the guyline provide stability means you have some flexiblity on where you need to drive your stake into the ground. You could even use rocksThis literal woman youtuber figured it out. Just bring an axe or a saw and get to choppin'.
>>2799230you say that but its annoying as fuck in practice and as you see you end up with a result in the pic where the walls aren't straight and the tent is invariably tugging to one side. i have the telescopic pole. Idk I guess I got more than I bargained for and I'll just accept that I'm a bitch and build the frame
>>2799232It just takes practice and knowing the knots to able to make quick, small adjustments to the guylines. If you can't make the knots or find them annoying to do with gloves/cold hands then get a couple of these that will fit your guyline rope and quit bitchin'.
>>2799250oh that little contraption appears to be just what I need. Thanks anon. I was doing loop aliens before but in blistering cold they are frustrating to work with.
