>plants>on earth for trillions and billions of years>2 million years ago: humans *exist*>1776: america created>today: NOOOOOOOOOOOO THAT PLANNT SPECIES IS INVAAAAAAAASSSIVEEEE ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO GROW THERE U MUST KILL IT ON SIGHTarent plants designed to travel extremely long distances and havent their devised incredibly clever ways to do so? havent they been traveling all over the earth for literally billions of yer=aars?invasive species is a stupid idea created by people a. who r just trying to protect their unnatural patented/gmo/hybridized cash crop; or b. people who r projecting their feelings of guilt over colonizing a lesser people onto plantssome plants make food that u can eat. grow them and eat them. were struggling to survive out here every day, meanwhile some businessmen and brainwashed college liberals are trying to tell us were bad people for growing the wrong type of food (while they personally do not grow food or make shelters or make clothing, instead reaping the benefits of the global slave industrial comples)
>>2796054people and animals also piss and shit everywhere, but we've learned that our environment is worse for us if we piss and shit everywhere around us. we've learned a similar lesson with letting invasive plants ruin our local ecosystems. the world has been dealing with biological and meteorological catastrophes for æons, but for our own well-being we would rather not.
>>2796054There is an entire separate argument against invasives for the ecological impact, not for the sake of the rest of the environment, but for us. We do better in stable environments and ecosystems, so that we can better predict impacts on our agriculture for example. The kind of dramatic change brought on by invasives can destabilize an ecosystem and that almost always means negative impacts for us.That and you can't talk about it like it's just plants, invasives from all the kingdoms of life affect all the other kingdoms. Ranching is harder now in much of the desert west of the USA because overgrazing has allowed invasive grasses the cattle won't eat to flourish, which has now left little room for good feed grass to grow
>>2796055actually peeing and pooping in ur backyard benefits the local environment because nutrients r kept close by and thru worms and insects eating that organic material, the local biodiversity is increased, which has a positive ripple effect on the health of the local natural environment. in fact sending ur waste to the local plant sewage system is only done because the government wants to process ur waste into fuel. its totally unnecessary. it makes sense in cities but cities themselves are unnatural and cause lots of problems in the world.invasive plants 'ruin local ecosystems' but only temporarily. yeah some chinese lantern flies (that we invited in by doing business with china every g-o-s-h d-a-r-n day) might eat all the leaves off a patch of forest trees, but given enough time, the area will recuperate and heal. these changes are a natural part of nature. in fact one might argue that nature itself welcomes these changes, because its trying to fix a problem about which were unaware. apparently mushrooms have been known to kill off large patches of trees, which causes grasslands to grow, which attracts grazing animals, which defecate and provide the necessary nutrients for the mushrooms to thrive.>>2796056the reason our environments are unstable is self-inflicted. with industrial agriculture, there is so much loss of life and pain caused to the natural world, that nature fights back and gives us problems. the population explosion of humanity would not be possible without indistrial agriculture. we could have this many people on earth without industrial agriculture, but more people would need to help out on the farm. the dramatic changes that occur do so because we keep clear cutting forests to make cattle grazing land for ronald mcdonad. the amazon rainforest is being destroyed for the international burger chains.>ranching is harder because of overgrazing>invasive grassesagain nature is fighting back against humans greed and attempts to control her.
>>2796056are apples invasive to the us?
>>2796054damn nigga public education failed u hard
>>2796059an introduced speeshie is not the same designation as an invasive speeshie
>>2796061it is tho, given a long enough timeline
>>2796062not always, some introduced plants just make their way, other destroy the ecosystem which can cause ecological collapse. there is not timeline, even millionds of years, that guarantees any plant will collapse a local habituated ecosystem. but there are plenty of plants that do within our own timeline of years or decades
>>2796064whether or not a food crop is native, introduced, or 'invasive,' u should grow and eat it. simple. and stop wasting ur time when out on hikes and uprooting this or that invasive plant. nature is a lot smarter than u or me. let it do its thing and stop trying to control it.
>>2796064industrial agriculture is the problem. if america was filled with small family farms, people would attend to their farms' needs and things would balance themselves out just fine. its square miles of monoculture, artificial fertilizer, leveling forests, shipping bees across the usa to pollinate specific crops, that are the problem. invasive species is a red herring for outdoorsmen created by the gubmint in order to distract us.
>>2796069ok thnk u 4 ur service
>>2796058The ecosystems of the Americas were made unstable by invasives from the old world, and suffered negative effects because of them, way before industrialization. Anthropomorphising nature fighting back against humans is also not useful or accurate.
>>2796059No because when left in natural environments they do not crowd out or directly contribute to die off of native species. Some species arrive in an area by human cause and nestle into the ecosystem nicely. Some don't survive without direct human intervention
>>2796078>The ecosystems of the Americas were made unstable by invasives from the old world, and suffered negative effects because of them, way before industrialization.citation needed. if this is true, then what im saying is correct. no one is saying that apples are invasive. yet they were at one time. they invaded america.stars are born, live, and die. perhaps the earth is the same. an organism with an intelligence that none of us could comprehend.
>>2796081You find it hard to believe that between 1500 and 1800 (generous definition of industrialization) not a single species made it over and became invasive? Look up what happened when the Spanish first brought peachesI don't know how that makes you correct, you claimed the direct opposite
>>2796084im saying invasive/non-native species are a non issue.
>>2796086Yea and we can get back to that, but you also made the wildly inaccurate claim that environmental instability is because of industrialization, when it is really just human caused in general, yes even noble savages to medieval peasants would ignorantly destroy their ecosystems they relied on.To get back to it, invasive are an issue because they have direct negative effects on our own food and recreation industries.
>>2796090if the world population was halved it would not matter in the grand scheme
>>2796091That is an entirely different argument. Can't tackle this one?
>>2796090invasives have a direct effect on our food and recreationu can grow all the food u need on a few acres of land.if u want the status quo and want to live ur middle class life and not do any real work then invasives might be an issue for u. but they are not for me. and for the other free people of the world.
>>2796094So in your imagined yeoman farmer paradise do you not pull weeds either? Do you just let them choke out your crops you need to live because you don't consider them invasive to your farm?And dramatic changes to ecosystems affect everyone, no matter where you are.
>>2796096the only thing dummy troll-anon is pullin' is our collective leg
>>2796096lqbim talking about 'invasive' species like... theres a tree that is native to asia that grows on my lawn that is designated invasive yet it grows berries that are edible. if the weeds really got out of control i would just flatten them... ideally i have enough land that weeds will never become such an issue that i wont have enough food to eat. but weeding is a separate issue from 'dont worry about invasive species'. im sure many weeds are native and not labeled an invasive species but u wouldnt want them in ur garden obviously. although plants often work together to correct the soil ph and provide a varied diet for the bugs and worms so by turning ur garden into large patches of monocrops u r once again tampering with nature. u should let things grow more wildly. allow fruit trees and shrubs to grow, plants that are annuals that cant be affected as much by weeds. but this is again tangential.
>>2796054Chinese intentionally dump invasive plants and pests as economic warfare.
>>2796111This and every chineaze policy is a form of warfare
>>2796054Invasive species are the ones that didn't or couldn't travel on their own but humans brought them. Therefore it's on humans to restore the natural order.
>>2796061Because some introduced species don't outcompete native species, and in some cases couldn't survive at all without human care.
>>2796054the real question is why if plants were around for so long before people why didn't they "evolve" like monkeys supposedly did?
>>2796210they did
>>2796059Crab apples are. They're usually used as pollinators in orchards around here.
>>2796234they're native you mean. the big eatin' apples come from eurasia originally, although crab apples are good eatin' sometimes too
>>2796227so we came from plants? Not monkeys? You liberals love changing the "science"
>>2796236>so we came from plants? Not monkeys? Both. Plants first, then fish, then monkeys, then us (I'm skipping steps here).>You liberals love changing the "science"Not nearly as much as you love being ignorant.The "man descended from monkeys" was invented by conservatives to try and deny facts. Never has science claimed that we descended from the monkeys that surround us. Nor is anyone claiming we descended from plants that surround us. What science states is that we share a common ancestor with apes, monkeys, all mammals and likely with all living things. In fact, as I understand it, it's the monkey's that specialized away from our common ancestor between humans and living monkeys, which was likely closer to what you would recognize as a human.Yes, science """changes""" because our understand and knowledge changes.
>>2796236we're all descended from LUCA anon
>>2796094>u can grow all the food u need on a few acres of land.This isn't true.
>>2796281unlessin you're a cattle
>>2796283Oh wow. A frog poster satisfied with their ignorance.
>>2796058This nigga never heard of eutrophication and its deleterious effects on biodiversity. Also, parasitic fungi like birch polypore facilitate succession from birch to hardwood forest, not a return to grasslands. Stop spouting bullshit like you know how anything works, just because it sounds right in your head.
>>2796483kek anon is probably Graham Hacock
There are barely any human-useful invasive species, those being:>legumes like kudzu and crotalariaRestore shit soil, prevent erosion. But unrestrained they're often so powerful that they literally shade out or strangle all other first-succession plants, so they completely tank biodiversity, causing literal mass die-offs of animals that relied on those native plants.>mulberriesThey taste good but have zero storage capability making them useless 355 days out of the year plus there's a native version anyways so why not cut down the invasive>a few herbsIf you really want St Johns Wort, sure, dont pull it out since it really does nothing to the environment, but it's technically invasiveThere are lots of others that aren't useful, usually because they're tiny lawn weeds of no edible or medicinal valueThen you get to downright useless shit like privet. There is no reason to keep privet on your property, seriously, it's the worst tree in so many ways. Privet is the reason for my existence sometimes and I take vulgar pleasure in destroying it. English ivy goes here too since it's useless but looks kinda nice so can't say I viscerally hate it like privet.Farm plants are not invasive, and no one has ever claimed so unless that plant is legitimately able to overtake the environment, like mint or maybe cannabis, but it's a non-issue compared to the actual useless environment-destroying invasives
>>2796055Problem is that the EPA and just about every other environmental group are so completely incompetent that they end up causing worse ecological disasters then they help prevent/fix. I'm always reminded of the time enviromental cucksucking yuppies thought it would be a good idea to poison a fucking water supply to remove an endangered fish, or that time in Colorado they were so incompetent they allowed a ton of pollutants to run into the river, and they respond to every issue of corporate destruction with a snails pace whilst reacting to the natural migrations and invasions of animals to be the biggest danger in the fucking world.We aren't making things better for ourselves, we're trying to preserve an idea of how we think the world ought to be, ignorant of the fact that we have to adapt to survive and forgo certain ways of life to keep moving forward. That is in our nature above all else, and that is what the industrial fucktards and the environmental college educated morons do not understand.
>>2796398Don't steal my meme you honked up nigga.
>>2796602To remove an invasive fish*This is a common practice they use herbicides and pesticides to kill invasive species, with no regard for every other living thing that has to interact with that area.They also disrupt environments through their "Restoration projects" where they add in so many contrivances and degradable materials it's a wonder these people even lived through their evolutionary hurdles. Case being the Wayne E. Kirsch wildlife area where they added in all kinds of pipes and shit to keep the bass from getting to an endangered fish, putting degradable plastic and other crap into that enviroment.The only thing that is going to fix the environments of our planet is to let things happen, stop relying on mass industry, killing 7 billions human beings, and let the rest adapt to survive.
>>2796078>>2796483The planet has changed constantly throughout the time's we've been here, that is what it is meant to do. Eventually we will die, but the more we push that event off the worse it's going to be for us. If we adapt to survive sure our population is a lot smaller, but the humanity that will be born from that struggle has the potential to be far stronger then we are now. By preserving the weak among us and fostering care for the most pathetic to strive we only hurt ourselves, and but forcing nature in place we essentially put a plug on a flood gate, one that is destined to burst and create far more problems in the future.It is the likes of these college educated yuppies who think they can remove themselves from nature, or control it in some way, instead of learning to live with it. These cowards in academic institutions who are our so called "Leading authority" on the enviroment and natural phenomenon are worthless, and when the flood gates open it will be them who are the first to go.
>>2796398>>2796603hey guys I made my own version so you always know when it's me
>>2796633Mindbroken by the culture war, can only think in terms of identity politics.Also you admitted earlier to the necessity of controlling the environment even for a singular yeoman farmer, so you can stop bullshitting now.
>>2796758You have the IQ of a gnat and lie like water falls from the sky.The primary destroyer of nature is humans and saving nature obligates limiting the mobility of invasive humans...like you.
>>2796758>>2796758Every good sense of truth contains an element of paradox. I actually fucking hate kikes, so I don't use their terms unless there is meaning in doing so.We shouldn't be controlling the enviroment, but learning to live better within it, learning to control ourselves, so that no kike may control us or nature.
