Is it that hard to copy Canon and Nikon?
>>4368032Bro! How's the job at IHOP going? Have you made that perfect pancake you've always dreamed of?
Because canon and nikon both have huge design compromises on their pancakes, and it probably takes a lot of time to outdo that with what little R&D money would get allocated to such a niche product (an optical body cap).Sony makes professional cameras for the full frame space. Pancakes are not professional lenses. Canon and nikons pancakes definitely are not professional lenses. Focus motor noise, external focusing (and the associated focal length breathing), and not even having filter threads like the nikon, are all no-gos for professional equipment. PROFESSIONAL cameras are meant to do both stills and video on demand no matter the situation. All FF pancakes thus far have been "hobbyist" lenses, stills only, street photography, sells to 5 people none of whom matter.For your reference they already have several pancakes, including a pancake zoom, for APS-C and the smallest weather sealed full frame zoom so they don't really have a huge market to fill.
>>4368041nooo it has to be because of e mount so sony is fundamentally le bad! dont you get it!? THE CAMERA IS BROKEN BY DESI->E mount can support lenses as fast a f0.63>samyang remaster slim is 10mm shorter than niggor z pancake and vignettes 3 stops>niggor z pancake vignettes 3 stops>therefore there is room for the glass, just not the autofocus system (same problem nikon had)>sony 50mm f1.2 gm vignettes less than canon rf 50mm f1.2 loh wait, e-mount isnt broken by design.
>>4368042>>4368041>canon pancake: shit>nikon pancake: shit>sony pancake: not coming out until it's not shit/threaduntil then canikon boomers can enjoy putting small shitty lenses on their big nice bodies. your camera might be twice the size of an a7cr but at least the super shitty lens that goes bzzzzz is 1/3" shorter rite boys?[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]Camera-Specific Properties:Image-Specific Properties:Image Width3024Image Height4032Image OrientationTop, Left-Hand
>>4368048>>canon pancake: shitOne of the sharpest lenses they have made to date.
>>4368073Just because a lens is sharp doesn't mean it's good. Video is an absolute no unless you stop recording before doing a focus pull or crop by about 1.5x between min and max focus distance and use an external mic. Exposure to harsh conditions is an absolute no. At least it's $270.Nikon somehow did even worse despite everyone wishing they would modernize the 24mm f2.8D. No, nikon thought, they already have the baby butt soft all-plastic 28mm, why would we do that.
>>4368032pancakes are fucking consoomer trash. why is /p/ so gung ho about that trash? that's almost as retarded as m43
>>4368076>why is /p?*one shill who came here because he keeps getting banned from the sonyalpharumors comment sectionpancakes make sense on consumer cameras, not fucking RF mount where even the compact aps-c camera is the size of a medium format rangefinder
>>4368074The nikon 26 is negligibly shorter than the 28 if you want filter threads and for the tiny focusing group to be kept safejoke of a lens mount unless you exclusively buy professional glass (and indeed little else is even made of glass). welcome to the 2024 camera market outside of fujifilm.[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]Camera-Specific Properties:Equipment MakeFUJIFILMCamera ModelX-T3Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop Lightroom Classic 12.5 (Windows)PhotographerAlik GriffinMaximum Lens Aperturef/2.4Sensing MethodOne-Chip Color AreaFocal Length (35mm Equiv)90 mmImage-Specific Properties:Horizontal Resolution300 dpiVertical Resolution300 dpiImage Created2023:09:25 11:53:17Exposure Time1/160 secF-Numberf/10.0Exposure ProgramManualISO Speed Rating160Lens Aperturef/10.0Brightness-1.2 EVExposure Bias0 EVMetering ModeSpotLight SourceDaylightFlashNo FlashFocal Length60.00 mmColor Space InformationsRGBRenderingNormalExposure ModeManualWhite BalanceManualScene Capture TypeStandardSharpnessNormalSubject Distance RangeUnknown
I find the shape of a full frame DSLR with a good pancake easier to pack in my hiking or travel kit and carry on neck than a mirrorless camera with a hefty chunk of glass. Good pancakes (they exist, but I'm gatekeeping) have their place.
>>4368082You're a strange person.
>>4368084Nothing strange about it. DSLR+pancake is a very practical travel and hiking setup. You gain significantly more battery life (to the point of being able to pack just one spare battery, if even, for multi-day trips off grid), great robustness, reliability, and an OVF. If I want to travel as light as possible with have regular opportunity to recharge then I carry a GR. If that's not so much of an issue but I still want a decently packable setup, I take DSLR+pancake. Simple as.[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]Camera-Specific Properties:Camera SoftwareAdobe Photoshop CS6 (Windows)Image-Specific Properties:Image Width801Image Height728Number of Bits Per Component8, 8, 8Pixel CompositionRGBImage OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution56 dpcmVertical Resolution56 dpcmImage Created2024:10:02 19:39:48Color Space InformationUncalibratedImage Width801Image Height728
>>4368093>more battery lifeSkill issue. Turn your camera off when not taking photos.>Robustness and reliabilitySame across the board>OVFA massive downgrade.
>>4368104Nah. Enjoy your profit margin milking e-waste though.
>>4368104>Skill issue. Turn your camera off when not taking photos.And when the camera is on? What then retard?>OVF>A massive downgrade."I like having the worse product because its cheaper for manufacturer daddy to produce, whatever helps the company!">Robustness and reliability>Same across the boardLol, you say that but your snoy will shit the bed and disable all the buttons if you take it out of the bag too quickly
>>4368152OVFs are worse than EVFs unless you are using a prismless WLVF like a hasselblad. They lose too much light and resolution to be more useful otherwise and even then DOF preview above f8 (on a hasselblad!) is still useless. I can make a mirrorless with actual bad battery life like an om-5 last a week. Sony cameras last even longer.
>>4368152>one sony breaks out of 3 million: ALL OF THEM SUCK!>one olympus breaks out of 3 thousand: theyre lying they dropped it in the toilet olympus never breaks>one fuji breaks out of 6 thousand: CAN YOU SHOW US YOUR PHOTOS TAKEN IN HURRICANES? NO? GEARFAG! MY $2000 CAMERA IS NOT! A! BAD! VALUE! YOU DONT UNDERSTAND EMOTION AND SOUL TURNING DIALS IS WHAT PHOTOGRAPHY IS ALL ABOUTHmmmm.
>>4368175They do it for free. And yet, there's photo and video evidence of ancient third and second gen bodies putting up with hours of rain without complaints. The same conditions keep killing brand new X-T5sStatistically one olympus that dies from being wet is the same as about 11 sony cameras meeting the same fate. About half that rate for fuji, which reflects really poorly on fuji all things considered. I wonder if the hysterical, frantic sony hate /p/ gets spammed with 24/7 might have to do with covering up for fuji's disproportionately bad failings? Or perhaps panasonic. Sony gets a lot of hate, but panasonics extremely prolific issues like gh5 shutter+ibis failures and s5ii battery drain basically aren't mentioned. What is mentioned is "buy a fuji" and "buy a panasonic".If sony had the recall and AF performance/shadow banding fiascos nikon did, /p/ would never shut up about it. Instead nikons are recommended as "real photographic tools" (by teenagers that just shoot the roof of their apartment complex).Very strange.
>>4368173>>4368175>>4368181>Hysterical>Types out 4 paragraphs across three postsIs the "hysterical sony hate" in the room with us right now?
>>4368181>they do it for freewe have THREE snoy obsessed spergs threads up right now and all two of them are in almost every other thread crying about how daddy sony won't give babby his preferred pancake or reposting the same picture of an a7iii from a dpreview post about someone dropping their camera in 5ft of saltwater.there is no way this level of autism is not for pay. om system's marketing strategies don't stop at buying petapixel cruise tickets apparently.
>>4368189>Types out 4 paragraphs across three postsYou quoted me exactly once. Sorry you can't read above a third grade level.>Is the "hysterical sony hate" in the room with us right now?Yeah you're posting in one of the threads created just for it.At first I disliked sony but the more I look into these shills claims the more I want to buy an a7iv.
>>4368093You were talking about size, not the other merits of a DSLR, and that image anon posted showed that even your smallest DSLR and pancake combo is still larger than a mirrorless setup.>I find the shape of a full frame DSLR with a good pancake easier to pack in my hiking or travel kit and carry on neck than a mirrorless camera with a hefty chunk of glass
>>4368152OVFs are a massive downgrade in general. Some stand out, specifically ones for formats larger than 35mm, but they're still not entirely as useful for photography as an EVF. They're just pretty.A ground glass or a magnified WLVF/chimney finder lets you manually focus with pure precision without any stupid microprism aids, just your eyeballs, that's a great OVF. Such OVFs never made it to DSLRs. DSLRs get these really fuzzy viewfinders on the assumption that they will only be used with autofocus.
>>4368196If more digital cameras were optical rangefinders it would be cool. DSLRs do suck. Oversized and designed for professional (all snapshits no art) sports and news photography.
>>4368192>>4368191>>4368192>>4368194>>4368196>>4368199>Since no one listens to me anyway, I'll just have a conversation with myself???
>>4368200You quoted two of my posts, and one of them you quoted two times.Clive is a chinlet hapa who won't get any until he finally gives up and troons out btw
>>4368201>ITZ DA CLIVESure it is buddy
>>4368203all incels are the same person
>>4368205>If you don't like my toys then you don't have sex because I said so
>>4368206Originally most of us also disliked sony. Between clive and that om-5 shill, it's getting easier and easier to like it.I don't even have a sony and I've been calling these shill on their bullshit, and in the process, discovering sony actually makes small, fun, capable cameras that stomp all over nikon and are better for raw IQ than canon. After a few rounds of clive-isms i've basically accepted that sony is just the best if their artificial cripple hammering of video and sports centric features doesn't bother you.
>>4368036>Have you made that perfect pancake you've always dreamed of?No need, just buy a Canon or Nikon ;)
>>4368228You never shut up do youPlease stop spamming about snoy or we will be forced to buy snoys (or at least fake exif) to try and mindbreak you
>>4368032>Why can't Sony make a proper pancake lens?>Is it that hard to copy Canon and Nikon?It's just simple physics. Canon and Nikon have better designed larger mirrorless lens mount that were made recently, the Sony is too small.
>>4368236But that cant be true. The samyang remaster slim is smaller than and vignettes as much as the nikon pancake and sony’s professional 50mm vignettes less than canon’s. Sony’s f1.4 lenses are also the same size as and optically superior to the nikon z f1.8s. A badly designed mount doesnt result in this. If the samyang slim were the same length as the canon or nikon pancake and contained real lens elements it would likely be better. Sony probably wont release a cope lens until they figure out non-buzzing internal or rear focusing pancake lenses that can actually be used for video.
>>4368194It is larger than that particular setup, yes. But let's make a more apples-to-apples comparison with pic rel.The direct mirrorless+lens equivalent to the DSLR in this case is still longer, and not much lighter.
>>4368256And even more equivalent would be something like this. All I'm trying to say is that pancakes have a place. This not a controversial or groundbreaking statement. If somebody would come out with a pancake as short as pic rel for mirrorless, then god bless, you may have an ideal FF ILC travel setup if battery life isn't a concern.
>>4368256Now equip the r5 with the 28.
>>4368262>>4368256Canon is notorious for their MILCs being DSLR sized, due to their primary audience being journos who use huge zooms anyways. The ergonomic loss to them would be unacceptable. The average paying canon customer is paid to hold a camera up for the duration of an NFL game.
>>4368213>discovering sony actually makes small, fun, capable camerasnice try diddy
>>4368213Sony is legitimately the funnest brand. Every button does exactly what you want. I was surprised when the menus were the same as every other brand. They just dont have picture icons or titles like “autofocus 1” (despite containing unrelated settings, NIKON)
>>4368269>Sony is legitimately the funnest brandvery organic discussiongm sers
>>4368256>>4368262But Canon don't even try to make their mirrorless bodies and lenses small. If size matters to you then you go Sony.
>>4368213same, the more of these dumb sony hate threads get made the more i hear about how great sony is compared to the "competition". only canon is better, at attracting professionals who just hold the shutter button down for the entire event and pay someone to cull.
>>4368041>>4368042>>4368048 >>4368074 >>4368077 >>4368080>>4368175 >>4368181 >>4368238 >your boot sir
>>4368439>you have to hate sony because they’re rich. look at my saar post, saars. sony website, pancakeredditor.
>>4368446ESL
>>4368439All this seethe and all these strawman comics, but sony still make the best cameras and lenses. Your attachment to the toy lens category really drives home the point: compared to sony, other brands make toys.
>>4368705>comicsFucking newfag
>>4368705Snoy don't make cameras, they engineer lifestyles
>>4368032Why do you keep screenshotting your posts, ricecel?
>>4368032I cannot get over people calling "fast" something that doesn't move. English is the only language that calls aperture "speed" like a fucking retard.
>>4368032Laws of physics
>>4369086We also call it "bright" which technically isn't right even if in a roundabout way it does do that>heckin hate roundaboutsThey're easy, just don't buy a Snoy
>>4369095Yes, laws of physics. All current FF mirrorless mounts are too shallow to make a pancake that does not focus externally. Unless sony can magic up a special nanotech optical group that corrects the focus breathing inherent to this there's no chance they will release a pancake. There's no chance of sony releasing any more lenses that literally can not be used for video because some ricecel is angry about a 10mm difference between the canon 28mm and the samyang 35mm f2.8
>>4369102Sounds like a skill issue
>>4369105The samyang also has lots of focus breathing. The reason no one is releasing "serious" small lenses past an initial dump of beginner kit anymore is because the optics needed to correct this flaw, which makes an ILC less suited to shooting video than a fucking phone, is to add more glass than can fit in anything compact.The actual tech advantage of the Z mount is the ability to make a lens that's image space telecentric and does not breathe. It's just that no one noticed because nikon bodies don't do good video. It's not about lens speed or pancakes. Sony can theoretically make an f0.6something lens, the actual tech flaws of E mount are the inability to make a telecentric lens and the inability to bring a lens' exit pupil too close to the sensor (like leica's vintage symmetrical UWA primes).Of course, your average anti-snoy shill has an IQ score between 85 and 95 so they don't get stuff like this. You were probably already looking for meds.jpg in pictures\homework\dontclick\4chan because most of the words I used must seem made up to you. If they did not you'd be smart enough focus on the actual, serious, unfixable technical flaws that sony has persistently refused to fix instead of myths like weather sealing and color science. You'd be making multiple threads about star eater instead of something childish and irrelevant like sony not releasing a buzzy toy lens and you'd be posting the classic "vignetting correction setting fucked my raw file" rainbow instead of crying about made up weather sealing shit.You simply don't know what you're talking about at any point and are most likely not intelligent enough to go beyond your repetitive subjects. I mean, really, if you were, you'd also be hating on canon in equal amounts (such buggy unreliable cameras) and shilling the fuck out of the nikon zf and leica m11p.
>>4369110Forgot my actual sony problemYou are probably too stupid to even know how this problem works, that's why you cry about toy pancakes 24/7.
https://www.change.org/p/sony-remove-star-eater-endont mind me just posting actual sony defects instead of fudyou cant argue against this. you cant throw meaningless cope and anecdotes back and forth over this. it's just there.
>>4369110Why is OP pushing the Samyang as an official Sony lens?
>>4369102>>4369110not reading your butthurt college essay
>>4369117Because he can't read at an adult level and unironically thinks it is the flagship sony pancake lens. Sometimes, I think he just can't read at all. OP is the same guy who keeps posting a sony some saar dropped in the ocean and saying its from a leaky battery.He's exactly in the market segment that wants pancake lenses for giant FF cameras despite the ricoh gr, fuji and m43 already existing and having much better compact kit than any buzzy canikon. But, not, because due to his low IQ he does not have sufficient disposable income for a lumix gm1 and 20mm f1.7 pancake.
>>4369117Because it's Sony's flagship pancake lens.
>>4369349That's like saying a Toyota is BMWs flagship car because they gave them an engine design.
>>4369386If BMW didn't make any engines, then yes.
>>4369135This is for that snoy fag.[EXIF data available. Click here to show/hide.]Camera-Specific Properties:Image-Specific Properties:Image OrientationTop, Left-HandHorizontal Resolution144 dpiVertical Resolution144 dpiCommentScreenshotImage Width1200Image Height1240
>>4369386Anon's a Sony intern and they're indoctrinated into already believing Sony holds a vertically-integrated monopoly on other companies
>>4369404>the camera that outsold all of its competition combined has a few lemonsWell! a7cii it is thanks for the snoy shopping tip
>>4369627>i'm gonna buy a snoy i swear!do it faggot
>>4369627good goyim
Sony is the best but I can't afford one :(I guess I'll buy a nikon z6 and call them camera shaped computers to cope
>>4369646Lol fuck off, eat your T2i rebel and go back to posting snoycakes, Clive.
>>4369650Is Clive in the room with you now?
>>4369653Honey wake up the new Clive posting just dropped>DO NOT REDEEM SAAR
>>4368041>external focusing (and the associated focal length breathing)I thought floating elements usually resulted in more focus breathing.
>>4368077What medium format is the size of the R50?
>>4374536ignore the coping snoy, hes talking out of his ass as usual
>>4368181>PtosisMammaeheh
>>4369095Rules of nature
>>4368041This post is correct.Samyang and viltrox already proved a pancake is possible. It would just suck as much as nikon's.Nikon has THE largest mount, and their pancake is unusable garbage. Go on. Pay NIGGOR $500 for their "pancake" and see how you get on if you actually deserve a Z series camera and aren't a misplaced gearfagging d750 peasant who only shoots building cornersYOU CAN NOT SHOOT VIDEO OR ACTION WITH THAT LENS>action, with a wide angle!? uhhh f11 zone focusNot the look that professionals are doing anymore. f11 WA shots are boomer flickr shit - and phone shit. WA and bokeh is in. Dynamic scenes, WAs, and bokeh are in. Again, I said if you deserve a Z body and aren't a misplaced gearfagging d750 user... Z bodies are professional video and action cameras. If you only shoot corners and cats please stay the fuck off mirrorless and get on a DSLR so we dont get more awful releases like the Z 26mm. I am still sing the plastic shit 28mm with no WR and a rain cover because the 26mm is that bad,
>>4368041>>4374545>tl;drsnoy skill issue
