Taiwan is undeniably a part of the chinese ethnos, share a language, share a culture, they even share economic interests. It wasnt until the 2010s that taiwan opposed reunification (wow another country that wanted peace with their neighbors until the US got involved, who saw that coming) and now the popularity of "1 china 2 systems" is sub 25%. The only reason china is even hostile towards taiwan is because america and western aligned nations keep sending them weapons which in turn makes taiwan wary of chinese invasion provoked by these weapons. If you understood nyet means nyet then this is just the same situation.https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.htmlSection 5 is exactly what china has been warning about.>b-but they dont have the right to invade taiwan to keep foreigners out, its not their country!America operated on the monroe doctrine which arbitrarily claimed the entire western hemisphere as its zone of influence. Jfk was ready to destroy human civilization over the cuban missile crisis.This is just another proxy war america is starting over vague interests by arming and "protecting" a neighboring country/former territory of a world power. Even if you dont support the one china policy, you have to recognize china is absolutely being provoked.
Taiwan is secretly building it's own nukes. It's the only way to be truly secure. Fuck alliances, build nukes. Ukraine should have never given up their's.
>>472278582this is genuinely insane and intolerable behavior. If texas was building nukes and talking about its independence, their entire government would be dead before dawn. Ukraine should have just told the state department to fuck off after the coup and maybe half its male population would still be inhabiting the country today.
>>472278582the us would never allow that, proxies are meant to weaken the enemy not annihlate the world
>>472278495>Taiwan is undeniably a part of the chinese ethnos, share a language, share a culture, they even share economic interests.So our country belongs to Britain? Kys traitor>reunificationThey were never unified. The PRC did not even exist until the ROC already controlled the island. How does the PRC own an island that they never controlled?You're just a "le America bad" NPC. Hopefully the ROC can re-take West Taiwan in my lifetime.
>>472278495>It wasnt until the 2010s that taiwan opposed reunificationAlso America defended Taiwan way before 2010. We even threatened nuking the mainland many decades ago.
>>472278495>Taiwan is undeniably a part of the chinese ethnos, share a language, share a cultureTaiwan is like china, but better without the commies.
>>472280161>so our country belongs to britainwe werent a country before the revolution.>west taiwanfirst of all shelf the reddit tranny shit, and to be clear i dont really care if taiwan remains independent or not, i dont support either horse in this race. Taiwan is going to drag america into another war the same way ukraine and israel have drawn us into wars. Houthis are shooting american ships now after a decade+ of being at war just because of israels genocide. >le america bad npcdo you seriously want to defend americas military history and current disaster of foreign policy? We have 34 trillion in debt and have 3 current wars that have nothing to do with our interest while sleep walking into a 4th conflict with one of our biggest trading partners. we are pushing the third world into BRICs arms with our handling of the currency. The saudis just ended a deal where they invest the profits of their oil exporting into american treasury bonds, a foundation of the dollars strength. Can you seriously call anything america is doing abroad anything except bad?
>>472278582>Taiwan is secretly building it's own nukes.Secretly building them in China hopefully, what better way to stop an invasion by making the evilest enemy on the planet wonder who just nuked them without any warning.
>>472278495Naval invasions aren't fun, not even Russia tried to do it in Ukraine.
>>472281134>we werent a country before the revolution.I don't know what you're saying. Taiwan is only a country if they revolt? Sure. The PRC revolted in 1949 and created their own country, separate from the ROC. And then the U.S. suspended diplomatic ties, 75 years ago. Not in "muh 2010s." And no, Taiwan isn't "going to drag us into the war." We've defended them all this time. We've already given them the semiconductor industry that they have now. We've already been invested in their autonomy all this time, and you want to enable some jewish chinkoids (they even kill Muslims, just like the jews) to go "goyi- I mean, guailo, we were unified looooooooong ago during the Qing Dynasty so we own it now!">Not even denying that you're a le america bad npcWe do a lot of gay shit overseas. Abandoning Taiwan to our adversaries would be a great addition to the roster of gay shit that we've done.
>>472281836>we defended them all this timeOnce again this is missing the point. until the 2010s the idea of reunification was not taboo in taiwan, now its not even viable in their politics. >we already given them the semiconductor industry that they have nowone of the only reasons we are sending them our weapons.>we have been invested in their autonomy all this timeyou think america genuinely gives a shit about self determination? we coup independent countries constantly for our "interests". How did autonomy work for the afghans? This is no different than ukraine. Do you still believe that we are "defending" ukraine because its a democracy (that canceled its elections)? If mexico was given long range missile systems and an offer of military alliance with literally any BRICS country, i promise you that within one month america would call mexico a dictatorship and kill their government. Autonomy for random chinks on the other side of the world is not an american value. >we were unified long ago during the qing dynastythats a much better claim to a sphere of influence than fucking "autonomy of people i cant locate on a map". I dont care if taiwan reunifies with china or not, we shouldnt be sending them weapons. We have a monroe doctrine that we were willing to destroy civilization over, why is it wrong to expect other countries to feel the same way about their sphere of influence?>abandoning taiwan to our adversaries would be gayif it averts provoking a war then it would be one of the few wise foreign policy decisions we will ever experience in our lifetimes. I say as soon as we get semiconductor fabs in america we give taiwan the afghanistan treatment and let them figure out if they still want to oppose their neighbors without the US security blanket hanging over them.
>>472278495you're right anon, buttaiwan deserves to inherit china. you have it the wrong way around.
>>472283101>one of the only reasons we are sending them our weapons.How is this a bad thing? Hey, friend, I'll teach you how to weld and then you can work for me. And then I'll let some easternjew kidnap you after I trained you for years.>Once again this is missing the point. until the 2010s the idea of reunification was not taboo in taiwan, now its not even viable in their politics. Source absolutely required. If they wanted to unify so badly, why have they fought off the PRC for so long? Why didn't they unify before the 2010s? They had ample time.>you think america genuinely gives a shit about self determination?No. But in this case, it benefits us AND is justified. So we do genuinely support their autonomy, even if it's for selfish reasons.>How did autonomy work for the afghans?Taiwan has triple West Taiwan's GDP per capita. With way less blood money. West Taiwan can steal our IP, they can bring back slavery but for Uyghers, but they're still shitting in the streets and running over children like roadkill.>thats a much better claim to a sphere of influence It's sooooo jewish. A heir that was born 37 years after the ROC gets to control an island where their only contribution is invasion and missile threats.>why is it wrong to expect other countries to feel the same way about their sphere of influence?Taiwan isn't invading the mainland. It's the other way around. If your neighbor was raping White children, you might be a bitch and let him get away with it. But not everybody wants to say "foreign affairs lul" when there's an unjust invasion on the horizon.>if it averts provoking a warAnd then if they want Tibet or some other weird chinkoid countries? Just let them do it? When do you stop them? After they've become stronger than us and can beat us in a war?
>>472284468>its justifiedwhy? would it be justified if we start a war over meddling in other countries backyards? ill tell you what, i wouldnt say any war or military intervention america has participated in since the mexican american war has been just. If we keep belligerence in taiwan it WILL lead to war with china and it will be another unjust war. >east china has triple chinas gdp per capitait has about 60 times less people and its largest trading partner is china. i dont really care what immoral things china is up to in its own neighborhood, i dont support warfare over gdp or wigger camps.>its sooooo jewishbut claiming that we deserve taiwan because it... has a high gdp per capita... isnt jewish...What was literally every president since monroes claim on the entire western hemisphere based on? i promise you its less legitimate than claims that people who are genetically linguistically and culturally similar to you should be united with you. north korea has a better claim on south korea than america did to cuba.>taiwan isnt invading the mainlandhttps://responsiblestatecraft.org/ukraine-russia-nuclear-radars/Ukraine never had any plans to invade russia. Yet here we are in 2024 with them striking russias missile defense systems and leaving them with an existential vulnerability to nato bombardment. its more like if your nemisis was reaping murder all over the past half century and then bought the house next door to you. America would absolutely never tolerate china or russia doing something similar, as stated in the OP jfk almost ended russian civilization over this behavior.>and then if they want tibetthen i guess the only option is to start a hot war with a nuclear power to save the autonomy of random asians ive never heard of and send the next generation of men to die in jungles on the other side of the planet!
>>472284468>>472286032>unjust invasion on the horizonthe invasion of ukraine was a defensive war and the behavior of the US completely justified it. read that wikileaks article i linked, the us KNEW it was a red line and crossed it anyways. China is having the same crisis in taiwan. We could end this crisis thats inching us closer and closer to a 4th war if we understood their perspective.>when do you stop themName 20 countries china has launched military operations in within the last century. why the fuck would they want to go to war with america unless they were provoked? Theres no other country on the planet (besides israel) that operates on the logic that we dictate the terms to the rest of the world and mow the lawn otherwise these people we are bullying might actually stand up to us. I dont expect you to understand the perspective of other nations, but having the world super power occupy its thoughts with "hmm this country is becoming a bit too influential, we should arm all their neighbors and destroy them" is exactly the reason why multipolarity is so attractive. So once again, the idea that we are justified in war with china just because they are becoming stronger is completely psychotic. they are not an existential threat to america, they are a docile trading partner that we are actively provoking into a war that will kill tens of millions of them. If you understand america provoking russia into a war over ukraine arms shipments then you have no reason to pretend you dont understand chinas feelings about taiwan.
>>472286032>why?Because the PRC never controlled the island. Their only claim is that they "succeeded" the ROC, whatever the fuck that means. The ROC still exists and kicked the mainland's ass whenever they attempted an invasion, so it doesn't seem like they were succeeded.>it has about 60 times less peopleSo? America has a lot of people and we're rich.>and its largest trading partner is chinaSo? Taiwan gets goybux from the mainland and the mainland gets shit from Taiwan. This means nothing.>but claiming that we deserve taiwan because it... has a high gdp per capita... isnt jewish...That's not my claim. You asked how autonomy worked out for Afghans... even though Taiwan is out-performing their adversaries three-fold.>What was literally every president since monroes claim on the entire western hemisphere based on?Don't deflect or talk about Ukraine, Cuba, etc. We are talking about Taiwan. Get the America Derangement Syndrome out of the conversation. Taiwan. Mainland. And no, I don't think that 23 million Taiwanese are ever going to start bombing the mainland with 1.3 billion people if they get their independence.>then i guess the only option is to start a hot war with a nuclear powerAs opposed to kicking the can down the road and fighting them after they've conquered much more land and stolen our microchip industry? Why do you want the monster to grow before you fight it?>Name 20 countries china has launched military operations in within the last century.Welp they've established over 100 police stations in at least 53 countries, never mind them imprisoning random Canadians, allying with North Korea (who provokes Japan and South Korea every year), putting African countries in debt traps, etc. Imagine how much more crazy shit I could name if I actually gave a fuck about Asian history/politics.
>>472278495The situation is SIMILAR, no the SAME. Both Taiwan and China say the same thing, and it's even written in the Taiwanese constitution, which is that they rightfully represent China. So there are 2 countries that represent China, the PRC which is People's Republic of China and ROC which is Republic of China (Taiwan).Ukraine doesn't say that Russia should be Ukraine but they say they are not Russians which of course is total bs. It's like when Croatians and Bosnians say that they are not Serbians.
>>472287611>so? america has a lot of people and we're richWhen exports and expensive resources makes up a large share of your gdp, and your population is small, your gdp per capita will be huge. Meanwhile china is like 10% agrarian. thats about 5 taiwans worth of people working on rural farms. If you dont understand how this works then you are hopeless.>you asked how autonomy worked out for the afghansthe second they left our security umbrella, they got dominated. you say taiwan is outperforming their adversary (largest trading partner and ethnic relatives) and i would say afghanistan was outperforming the taliban until its government surrendered to them.>dont deflect about ukraine or cubaits just an objective fact that countries care about their sphere of influence and the proximity of foreign alliances to their borders. we talk about taiwan relative to ukraine and cuba because they are the exact same situation. >i dont think 23 million taiwanese are going to start bombing the mainland with 1.3 billion peoplePROXYTaiwan is a military proxy in the pacific within spitting distance of bejing. Once again ukraine never planned to invade russia, yet it destroyed 1 of 2 early warning radars that are meant to prevent moscow from being nuked. >as opposed to kicking the can down the roadno, im opposing it to minding our own business. Im opposing a global thermonuclear war with peace/cooperation with hostile governments. Theres no reason why provocation or encirclement has to be the default position of the united states. >why do you want the monster to grow before you fight itWhy do you want war with every power on the planet? dont accuse me of america derangement syndrome and then ask why i dont want even more warmongering.>stolen our microchip industrylol>china debt traps africans and allies with north koreai couldnt give less of a fuck what china does to africans, its not our backyard. we are chinas north korea btw.
niggers
>>472278495it's quite obvious that the US is trying to force China to attack Taiwan, just like they did to Russia in Ukraine, but Xi Jinping is too smart to fall for it. in the end, the only thing the US will achieve if to accelerate their decline into irrelevancy.
