Thinking free will is real because "you made a decision" is like thinking Democracy is real.
the hardest prison to escape is the mind
free will is real because otherwise retards like you wouldnt exist
>>472829948Based jew atheist into mediation
>>472830202*meditation, kek
Only women have free will.Women manifest reality because the are conduits are the divine.This is why men keep them under lock and key like a precious rare commodity.
>>472829948The atheist reaches his final form, a person denying own dignity
>>472829948So what you going to do about it?
that's more of a psychological thing imo than anything else, how do you conceptualize the loss of free will you as a /pol/fag might just see it as democracy and that will be from loss of innocence, the book in the meme about it will lead to it
>>472829948Ever read a book where you are the hero as a kid? Life is the same. Everything is already written. Your choices decide wich page you go and how the story will play but there is also some part that are unskipable events that you'll go through no matter what.
there is something pathologically wrong with people who say no free will. either they are dumb and do not understand what "will" is and liken it to the holy spirit , of all things, able to perform miracles and shit. or they are sociopaths who love dominating , controling and manipulating others. or perhaps they are jaded cynics.
>>472829948>Voters voting out globalist shitbags left and right>Voting is bad now>EU meme flagVote more
>>472829948If you vote it’s like saying niggers are equal to you since both your votes count the same. Voting is for nigger lovers.
>>472832299Every thing you do and all your thoughts are simple reactions to something, theres no such thing as free will, you were lied to
>>472832984Exactly. We're all bound by consequences of cause and effect
>>472832984except we can react to our own reactions through introspection. we can plan and envision possible futures. we can plant seeds today that we may harvest more seed three months hence. we can, with enough will, quit doing addictive things. the reaction cycle is recursive. we can be made aware of it , and we can modify it. free will aint free energy and if you live on auto pilot then yes its just a vicious cycle of reacting to emvironment like a typical habit. free will doesnt exist without enough energy and support from your community.
>>472833406You're demonstrating cause and effect
>>472829948Man can do what he wills, but he cannot will what he wills. Transcendental freedom is the freedom to do what one wills, or not to do it at all.
>>472833576yes this cause and effect cycle is an inevitability. everything has a reaction. but we may choose how to react to it. even if its through microexpressions. saying no free will becuase cause and effect exists is a very retard take and it smacks of jewish slave ship rhetoric and muslim caliphate slave markets.
>>472833756>but we may choose how to react to it.Free will isn't about the ability to make a choice, but why you made it and the consequences thereafter. Demonstrate a will free from consequences
>>472833756Microexpressions are involuntary, in fact you are enslaved by hormones and emotions
>>472833862circular reasoning. we just established we cant escape our causal universe. things are simultaeniously apprehended. we and our wills exist in time. youre redefining the problem free will is the ability to make a choice. a free will as in free from consequences would be a schizophrenic billionaire king. just becuase we know why someone made a choice doesnt make it any less free. its like the principle of the uniformity of nature you understand it at core level. that you can bank on the fact that the sun will rise tomorrow. but semantically we dont actually know that the sun will rise tomorrow , we have this faith that it will. in morality theres three things to considerthe means, the ends and the motive. and you are saying a moral choice is free depending on two out of the three. if i have free will do i only get one attempt to make a choice or do i get a second or third chance to learn from my mistakes? which choice is more free? the first nieve one or the last one where i learned from my previous choices?
>>472834158theres only a few people who can correctly point out microexpressions. cognitive spillage or overload or whatever you call it attributed to microexpressions. means we can atleast control the extent to which we react. once we know we are controled by emotions we can better understand our behaviours . the best weapon against social engineering is the awareness of it.
>>472834310>we just established we cant escape our causal universe.Then free will is an illusion >free will is the ability to make a choice.Demonstrate a choice free from consequences and/or demonstrate a choice that doesn't have a cause.
>>472834472matthew broderick killed two people in a drunk driving accident becuase he chose to drink and drive. hes rich so he couldve gotten a taxi. but instead his status afforded him means he could walk the streets of hollywood free as a bird and the only aguish is from his own private mental thoughts.
>>472834613>becuase he chose to drink and driveWhich has both caused and effect. >but instead his status afforded him means he could walk the streets of hollywood free as a bird and the only aguish is from his own private mental thoughtsHe wasn't free from consequences, nor the people he affected. You're making my argument for me
>>472834472your definition of free will is dehumanizing and set up to fail. becuase after youve moved the goal posts so far we need to invent an a causal universe or where mental processes are magic. the anti free will jigger shit is part of a larger agenda. we do have free will as bounded in a causal universe with time as a driving factor.
>>472834694when that dude figured out how to determine if the gold sphere was solid or hollow. it was described as a flash of insight.
>>472834759>your definition of free will is dehumanizing and set up to fail.I disagree. Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences >becuase after youve moved the goal posts so farNo? You've agreed with me, you're too prideful to see it lol
>>472834871>when that dude figured out how to determine if the gold sphere was solid or hollow.Causation of words between sphere and ball
>>472829948And yet you can't provide a single testable argument as to why it's somehow not real despite being directly experienced and self-evident to most.
>>472834907dude youre an asshole. and you freely choose to shitpost about it. when you couldve posted anything else. i dont care. we are both free to be wrong in each others eyes. im done with this conversation.
>>472834158>Microexpressions are involuntary, in fact you are enslaved by hormones and emotionsProjection. This is genetically true of the Polish race, what with you being white niggers, but there's no evidence that this is true of real people.
>>472835043>dude youre an assholeSee? Cause and effect now had you offended at a difference of opinion. >i dont care.You clearly do, it's why you've taken the extra steps to be offended for no logical reason. So much for that "free will" if you're this fragile
>>472835172Prove that "cause and effect" is real.
>>472835211You just did
>>472835218Notice how you can't provide any logical argument for your position.
>>472835265You did it again. My replies have caused you to reply to me. The effect of that is our continued conversation
>>472835322Once again, you fail to provide a logical argument for the existence of your imaginary abstraction.
>>472835353And you're doing it yet again. I can make this even more simple. You will either respond to me again or you won't
>>472835407Full concession accepted. The quickest way to break these bots is to ask them to justify their preprogrammed points. They start to loop immediately. ID goes to the filter now.
>>472835452>You will either respond to me again or you won'tThanks for proving my dichotomy ;^)
>memeflaggot 1PBTID bait thread>Unironic repliesEveryone itt should kill themselves, pronto.
Threadly reminder that "causation" is a purely metaphysical construct. Nothing has ever been shown to "cause" anything empirically. Moreover, the dissection of a spatial and temporal continuum into supposedly discrete elements is both approximate and subjective. "Cause and effect" is an analysis tool, not a demonstrably property of reality. Sometimes it is useful, sometimes it demonstrably isn't. No one has ever managed to account for complex human decisions in terms of cause and effect nor will they ever be able to.
>>472835353>you fail to provide a logical argumentYet you're incapable of explaining why I'm wrong
>>472835849>Threadly reminderThen says >Nothing has ever been shown to "cause" anything empirically.This thread has empirically caused you to reply
>thread bumped>no new repliesIt's that mentally ill animal replying to me over and over again, isn't it? They always do this. kek
>>472836006>>thread bumpedWhich caused you to reply again, lol
>>472835100But you are the one whos projecting some national insecurities
>>472836108No, I'm just assuming you're talking based on your personal experiences, since you don't actually have any proof to support your claims about other people being automatons.
>>472836108That anon is going to pretend to filter your ID I bet >>472836189>since you don't actually have any proof to support your claims about other people being automatons.You just did. Thst anon has caused you to reply again, kek
>>472829948This is a person who has never fasted. Who has never abstained. Who has never practiced self-discipline. To be human is to have self-mastery. It is to choose. There are those who trundle through existence following every urge, whim and instinct; driven by hormones and chemical reactions, slaves the animal that is their body. Then there are those who deny the animal and choose for themselves. Your will is a muscle, and you build it up by denying your urges and instincts.
>>472830362YWNBAW
>>472836414>Then there are those who deny the animal and choose for themselves. Your will is a muscle, and you build it up by denying your urges and instincts.Which aligns with what I said here>>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences
>>472836414So you choose to consume carbon and shit it out?
>>472829948Psychology is real. I know that. Sooner or later they will be able to predict anything someone does before they do.
>>472836414>There are those who trundle through existence following every urge, whim and instinct; driven by hormones and chemical reactions, slaves the animal that is their body. Then there are those who deny the animal and choose for themselves.NPCs have little to no self-awareness so they can't conceptualize how conscious reflection about your own decision-making feeds back into the decision-making process, so they don't see how utterly inapplicable their linear A->B->C->... reasoning is.
>>472836636>Psychology is real. I know that. Sooner or later they will be able to predict anything someone does before they do.Sure, by actively nerfing the population's sentience and programming their cattle to follow predictable patterns.
>>472836654>quotes another anon to make a reply to said quoteThanks for demonstrating cause and effect again >>472836711And again
>>472836189Yea you guessed it almost right my gyppo fiend, couldnt care less about looking for some proofs
>>472836711Yeah its a weapon.
>>472836848I'm glad we now both acknowledge that you have 0 (ZERO) proof of your claims. Your non-cognitive statements don't matter. They're an expression of your attitude and nothing more.
>>472829948Only God has free will. The rest is Destiny.
>>472836963>Your non-cognitive statements don't matter.Yet they've caused you to reply, over and over. Cause and effect again
>>472837032if cause and effect didnt exist then why would we bother making choices at all, since any act we choose to do will not produce the desired effect . it seems like we can only hope for the best.
>>472837355>if cause and effect didnt exist then why would we bother making choices at allExactly >>472837355>since any act we choose to do will not produce the desired effect . it seems like we can only hope for the best.See>>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences:^)
>>472829948>>472836414Abstaining is feminine. A true man of value can do whatever he wants, because he defines himself by other things rather than his conduct. All true heroes are flawed.I don't care enough about you or anyone else to be a slim vegetarian who doesn't drink. Fuck all of you. I'm going to eat a steak, then down a six-pack and tomorrow i'm going to break a new PR in the gym. Fuck your bug lifestyle.Btw I know that I can do it, because I was skelly mode myself when I was 20 and started living alone. It wasn't worth it. My desires are worth more than what you think of me.Pic related, people are going to tell you that women are manly, because they can abstain from eating food kek.
>>472837421you say we cannot have free will becuase cause and effect exists. you are arguing in circles. trying to justify why you are a faggot.
>>472837355>since any act we choose to do will not produce the desired effectThis doesn't follow at all. Depending on the situation, there may be a high probability that such an approximation is good enough to predict the result.
>>472837469>you are arguing in circles.What exactly is circular about>>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences?
>>472837513>Depending on the situation, there may be a high probability that such an approximation is good enough to predict the resultWhich aligns with what I've said here>>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequencesSee? We may actually find agreement :^)
>>472836963I never wanted to prove anything, why would i? Its none of my concern that some random gyppo desperately begs for it, its in your blood i guess lmao
>>472837442You shouldn't do whatever you want because then you're not a man you're an animal with no self control.You should control yourself and not let your desires control you. Read the Bible.
>>472837653>I never wanted to prove anythingOf course. You just wanted to dump your payload the way you are programmed to. You are incapable of having a rational discussion nor were you designed to be able to do it.
>>472837766>You just wanted to dump your payload the way you are programmed to.And you're programmed to reply to his payload. Cause snd effect strikes again
>>472834472>>472837526
>>472837766Any proofs?
>>472837797Again, can you explain the supposed circular reasoning?
>>472832984Except that it is 100% impossible to prove that. And the fact that you cannot prove it is proof that free will exists.
>>472837843i am cheesed to meet you
>>472837887>I can't explain the supposed circular reasoning OK
>>472837878>Except that it is 100% impossible to prove that.You just did. You're reacting to his reply, lol
>>472837693A great man simply does what he wants and accomplishes great things thereby. A man who won't do what he wants is a lesser man. If doing what you want causes you to act like an animal, it's because you have the nature of a nigger.
>>472837932you clearly dont understand free will. utterly incapable of doing so .its not suprising. its okay to be gay dude, dont think about it that much.
>>472837977You're welcome to your personal feelings and opinions. Weird that you can't seem to explain why I'm wrong though
>>472837974a man who does what he wants can accept any of the consequences.
>>472837442Are you really doing what YOU want if you're just reacting your urges whenever they appear?
You think predetermination is real because your dad raping you turned you into a faggot
>>472837878>Except that it is 100% impossible to prove thatNevermind that it's impossible to prove it. It's not even a useful or coherent model when you stop to consider the mild-bogglingly complex system of chaotic feedback loops involved in conscious decision-making.
>>472837961Every response to your reply simply proves cause and effect, ergo we have no free will, ergo you are the smartest troll on the board. War is peace, freedom is slavery, bow down to me you pigs in human skin.
>>472838027>a man who does what he wantsWhat he "wants" is chained to a cause for a desired effect >accept any of the consequences.Effects both desired and/or not >>472838130>Nevermind that it's impossible to prove it.You're quoting a reply to make a reply. You just proved cause and effect yet again
>>472837878Either the universe is deterministic or it's not. On a macro scale, it appears to be the former. On a quantum scale, the latter. Whether it be subatomic billiard balls in your brain rolling around on a table according to physical laws, or the same balls rolling around at random, how does that translate to you having "will"?
>>472836654Am I denying my urges because I have an urge to deny the urge? It's an interesting question. I do not think I can know for sure.However, I can know for sure that if I am living on auto-pilot, eating when I feel hungry, jerking off when I feel horny, shouting and swearing when I feel angry, and so on; that I am definitely am simply reacting to my urges.Given a choice between the two, the former seems more likely to be a path to genuine free will, so I will pursue that path. It could be that chemical reactions or unseen powers are forcing me in that direction; but while that is a possibility with the life-style that includes self-denial, it is a certainty in the life-style that does not.
>>472838173>Every response to your reply simply proves cause and effectYup>ergo we have no free willSee>>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences:^)
Any man who denies free will has something in his life for which he wishes to remain unaccountable.
>>472838009you are to blind to the cognitive dissonance in your head. you argue for cause and effect negating free will but you also agreed that an a causal universe negate it as well. yet youre whole thing is proving cause and effect through >my bait got you to reply lol.your argument always comes back to cause and effect. and if we dont have free will then why bother learning. is learning a choice? your acting stupid schtick is gay.
>>472838228Whites have free will, niggers, pajeets, spics and chinks don't. It's literally that simple.That's also why whites have the highest suicide rate.
>>472838287Yes yes, we are the smartest anons in this bread. Under no delusions of grandeur whatsoever and prfectly objective.
>>472838306Nope - that can't be it at all! It's all predetermined so nothing really matters and I'm not responsible for anything. Not even trolling /pol/ with inane philosophical threads.
>>472838326>cognitive dissonanceSuch as?>you argue for cause and effect negating free will but you also agreed that an a causal universe negate it as well.Huh? You just said the same thing twice>your argument always comes back to cause and effectYes? That's what it always has been and the true "freedom" in that comes into play here >>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences>>472838326>and if we dont have free will then why bother learning.>is learning a choice?See above
>>472838385>Yes yes, we are the smartest anons in this breadI've made no such claim. I'm just here giving my opinions, like you and everyone else
>>472838228quantum machanics is a thing becuase scientists cant deal with uncertainty, so they figured out a way to quantify it. thus quantum mechanics. you read to many pop sci articles and headlines. and place too much authority on scientists becuase you think they are smart, when alot of them are just status fuckers trying to get a pay check. free will doesnt exist in a lab. its all abtracted away to fit conclusions.
>>472836598The fact that I cannot control everything does not mean that I cannot control anything. If your definition of truly being free means that you can transform into a dinosaur at will, then no, you are not that 'free'; but if it means that, when confronted with a branching path, you can choose which you descend down ... that is a harder question to answer.If free will is real, then the easiest way to perceive it in my opinion is by addressing our bodily urges. We all feel the urge to eat, or to get angry, or to go to the toilet. Without thinking, these urges drive our actions. Can we deny these urges and thus alter our actions? We can. This shows some level of control, of self-determination, of 'free will'. Another can argue that we only denied those urges because of another urge, a compulsion borne of chemical reactions or unseen powers; and that I cannot argue against, but by pursuing the path of self-denial I have found a good change in my own life, and many others have too.
>>472829948dont care still voting biden
>>472829948Democracy is the magic show performed every four years so you don't realize you live in an authoritarian state.
>>472838511i argue you must make a choice and will yourself to learn. learning is a choice. get back to me in 3000 years when we have cracked causality and can time travel and shit. maybe we dont have your special snowflake unprovable free will now. but it will be possible in the future. if we can learn to make the right choices then sure we can eventually get to the point of an acausal choice as long as its the right one
>>472838740>addressing our bodily urges. We all feel the urge to eat, or to get angry, or to go to the toilet. Without thinking, these urges drive our actions. Can we deny these urges and thus alter our actions? We can.Agreed that we can deny these urges but we are not free from the consequences, both good and bad, in doing so
>>472838740i have hope that we can eventually turn ourselves into a dinosaurs.
the only reason to debate the nature of free will is to absolve oneself of consequence>i have no free will therefore i am not responsibleit is a cope, regardless of the metaphysical truth behind it
>>472838282>Am I denying my urges because I have an urge to deny the urge? It's an interesting question. I do not think I can know for sure.No, you deny your urges because you consider many different factors and this modifies and informs your sense of desirability of a potential course of action. There exist higher-level drivers of behavior than urges, and these clearly have two-way interactions with metacognition. Trying to analyze such processes in terms of chains of causation produces so many unresolvable chicken and egg problems that only a moron will fail to get the clue that his conceptual model is flawed.
>>472838840>i argue you must make a choiceBased on a cause or causes for desired effects/outcomes aka consequences >learning is a choice.Based on cuase and effect, which we are bound too and anything bound isn't truly free
>>472838623Notice that I accounted for both outcomes in my post. If QM is fake and gay, then the particles that make up our brain behave deterministically, so no room for free will either.Only way to have free will is to invoke a soul not restricted by causality, which you can't demonstrate empirically.
>>472839031>muh can't demonstrate empirically.Is determinism falsifiable?
>>472829948Go back to your Sam Harris podcast you absolute midwit faggot
>>472838905bravery is knosing the consequences but doing it anyways. or its an addiction, often remedied by narcan medical science is coming along way. we can mitigate the worst conseauences of our habits.
>>472838967I agree, I think its only idiotic pedants and God-haters seeking to deny the guilt they feel who make these arguments, but people do make those arguments.In my view we do have free will and by practicing self-denial we gain ever greater mastery and become less reactionary, and are then more able to consider our true goals, and then align our actions to the pursuit of those goals.>>472838934kek, me too brother.
>>472839031top brain scientists dont know have the shit thats going on in our brains at a atomic and quantum levels. most of that shit is a guessing game. turns out serotonin isnt all that impirtant when treating depression. took them 30 years to figure that out.
>>472839000yeah dude we all know you jerk it to cause and effect shit .we know thats what your whole argument is. its a faggy ass argument. get a better one that isnt so fucking gay.
Das riteFree my nigga Will. Fucking DA got him on made up charges and things ain't never been the same since. I miss u nigga.
>>472839133>bravery is knosing the consequences but doing it anyways.Again, driven by a cause or causes for a desired outcome and accepting the non desired outcomes just makes you more of an honest person >medical scienceDrenched in cause and effect >we can mitigate the worst conseauences of our habitsNot really as with your example with Narcan leads people to make bigger and bolder choices to do more, eventually killing them. It's what happens when former addicts go back to taking hits their used too and end up killing themselves. See Brad Newell from Sublime
>>472839302>its a faggy ass argumentOne you not only agree too but can't refute. Hence your reaction to personally insult me instead
>>472838130The argument is always made by faggots that have already decided they are always right.If they got smacked in the face though they would be crying for cops to save them despite just saying it was out of your control that that happened. So in practice they do not even believe it themselves.
>>472839155>In my view we do have free will and by practicing self-denial we gain ever greater mastery and become less reactionary, and are then more able to consider our true goals, and then align our actions to the pursuit of those goals.I agree. By doing so, you increase the influence of the metacognitive factor in the whole process, making the fundamental uncertainty it introduces more dominant.
>>472839422a narcissist faggotim not suprised. you know sapolky wrote that book to appease all the fags currently holding top positions in psych departments right? being gay aint a choice. you never had any free will so just vacillate between sucking dick and ranting about cause and effect.
>>472839455>you increase the influence of the metacognitive factor in the whole process, making the fundamental uncertainty it introduces more dominant.Which aligns with >>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences
>>472829948No shit. Any more bombshell revelations?
>>472839538Like clock work>>472839422>One you not only agree too but can't refute. Hence your reaction to personally insult me insteadLol
>>472829948Free will exists otherwise you kikes wouldn't need to propagandize so hard. Checkmate kike.
>>472839597i did refute it. you argued yourself into an untenable pisition where you just refuse to aknowledge the existence of free will in any possible universe. just go debate destiny or something.
>>472839845>i did refute it.Where exactly?
>>472839884when you started sucking a dick and i called you a faggot.
>>472839842>Free will exists otherwise you kikes wouldn't need to propagandize so hard. Checkmate kike.Yep. When you start regarding yourself and others as glorified automatons puppeteered by external circumstances, you gradually forfeit your psychological capacity to take control, making you helpless and predictable. This is what they need and it's why they're bombarding everyone with this kind of automatonist propaganda non-stop.
>>472839961Damn dude your supposed "free will" is very predictable >>472839422>One you not only agree too but can't refute. Hence your reaction to personally insult me insteadKek
>>472840038>When you start regarding yourself and others as glorified automatons puppeteered by external circumstancesHe says while quoting another anon (cause) to write a reply to it (effect) lol
>>472840051still waiting for you to get that dildo out your ass and cock out your mouth. but i guess i cant becuase we dont have free will. keep on sucking that dick.
>>472840181>repeatedly leads to homosexuality Interesting that I have this cause and effect in you.
>>472840288thats becuase you project your faggy causal relationships on to everyone.
>>472840407Kek. That bot is still doing it? If so, it's been at it for an hour.
>>472830080It's only logical.
>>472840407>I want you to be a homosexualI guess personal cause and effect in your life makes you do this. They say homosexuals reproduce by touching kids amd it seems that might be your issue in your life >>472840446>continues to demonstrate cause and effect Thanks bud
>>472840525prove i exist independant of your mind.
>>472840610You replying to me in a manner i incorrectly predicted. I was certain you reply with another homosexual projection but I was wrong
>>472840754so the contents of your mind are only things you can correctly predict.
>>472840992Clearly not
>>472841056so then prove i exist independant of your mind.
>>472841142We've already been through this
>>472839097In principle, yes. In practice, probably not.>>472839228We don't need to know which particular way our brain chemistry works in this regard, we are concerned with the behavior of the most fundamental building blocks of matter, and whether any of them can act acausally.
>>472841186how many times have we been through this. is it an eternal recurrance? has this moment happened an infinite number of times with the exact same outcome?
>>472841209you should look into experiments done in an absolute vacuum. wild stuff.
>>472841209didnt heisenberg *principle* state that anything measured is determined.
>>472841316>how many times have we been through this.As many times as I cause you to reply >has this moment happened an infinite number of times with the exact same outcome?Maybe, how would one verify this?
>>472841209>In principle, yes.Ok. How can I falsify it?
>>472841496yes dude i get it. it a whold troll of free will doesnt exist becuase i got you to reply. argumentum ad baitum. your understanding of cause and effect is woefully juvenile.
>>472841592>your understanding of cause and effect is woefully juvenile.You keep making these claims but always fail to actually demonstrate how. Its ok anon, you don't have to agree with me, I don't care if you do but at least try and backup your emotionally hurt feelings or they're just that
>>472841736you do know the way youve been proving cause and effect in this thread is "i got you to reply" you have no understanding of human behavior and its intricacies. you havent expierenced human behsvior beyond automic npc behaviour. but its out there. i see drug addicts that are 9 years clean. i see criminals who have had a turn of heart. i have seen people in the community stand up for themselves. you may argue that theres cause and effect there. but there is something beyond biological factors that drives these people. and you can say "it couldnt have been any other way becuase of cause and effect" and you will deny that it wasnt free will that made the junkie sober. you will call it something else. and thats why you are faggot.
>>472842081>you have no understanding of human behavior and its intricacies.Yet you keep descending to the most base levels of>emotional replies Lol>but there is something beyond biological factors that drives these people.Sure. Still a cause, whatever the person attributes it too>and you can say "it couldnt have been any other way becuase of cause and effect"No? Again see >>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequencesYou've yet to tell me what wrong with this statement
>>472841564Magically discover something that occurred with no cause, how the fuck should I know? Enclose a small volume of space with detectors to ensure it's completely devoid of any matter, then wait to see if something pops into existence within?
>>472842257is learning a choice?
>>472842327Yes and no. In some cases people make a choice to learn something based on q causes to increase knowledge on the subject. In other cases people inadvertently learn things based on the consequences of their actions/choices
>>472842419what is a choice without free will. in your worldview without free will, what does a choice even mean?
>>472829948Free will is a gift that was given to us by God and it gives me the power to call you a NIGGER.
>>472842281>Magically discover something that occurred with no causeHow does your test determine whether or not something "occurred with no cause"?>Enclose a small volume of space with detectors to ensure it's completely devoid of any matter, then wait to see if something pops into existence within?Your task is to test determinism, not to test whether or not things randomly pop into existence.
>>472842571>what is a choice without free willA series of consequences leading up to said choice and then creating new consequences and/or continuing prior ones >in your worldview without free will, what does a choice even mean?Again, see>>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences
>>472842625>How does your test determine whether or not something "occurred with no cause"?That's a question for you.
>>472842711you have provided the causes and effects of a choice but you still havent defined choice. what is a choice without freewill?
>>472842923>but you still havent defined choice.>what is a choice without freewill?I've already stated my opinion here>>472842711>A series of consequences leading up to said choice and then creating new consequences and/or continuing prior onesSo a choice is a series of cases and effects. Whether we took the time to ponder the "choice" or made it on a whim, it still is a result of cause and effect which breeds more causes and effects
>>472843097tell more more about pondering this choice. how do we choose without freewill?
>>472843153>tell more more about pondering this choice.Tell me why you made this reply and that will tell you why you made the choice to reply>how do we choose without freewill?Demonstrate a choice free from any consequences
>>472843310you dont want to answer the question. thats fine.
>>472843599>you dont want to answer the questionI did, several times and with examples. You don't have to agree or like it but I did answer your questions
>>472843713lol no you didnt you just threw it back at me before you went on about causes and effects.
>>472843766>you just threw it back at me before you went on about causes and effects.Again, you don't have to agree or like my answers and that maybe because you lack nuance and critical thinking but I did answer them
>>472843864you answered them like a fag. your argument relies on so many rhetorical tricks . uts rests completley on semantics. only fags do that.
>>472843979>you answered them like a fag.There's that homosexual projection again>your argument relies on so many rhetorical tricksSuch as? And again, you make claims you can't seem to back up.
>>472832299if you notice that you dont choose your thoughts or impulses and are honest about it, that doesnt make you anything but an honest introspective person.also, thinking that creatures have agency when they dont leads to hatred. e.g. if I think jews "choose" to act like kikes, I will hate them. just like if I think niggers choose to be nasty criminal apes - they could be rocket scientists, but they just choose to be fucking niggers, I will hate them. I dont hate ticks because I don't imagine they could be harmless.feeling bad due to not noticing how reality is is a completely avoidable source of suffering. I can want jews, nigs and race traitors to be happy even if I fight against them, the same way i can want a tapeworm to be happy as I defend myself from it by killing it.>>472832984indeed>>472833406there is no "you" outside of reality controlling that process. the "you" controlling things is a shitty illusion. if you think you are in charge and exist unchanged across time (a "self") you arent paying enough attention, nigger.>>472835039most people dont pay attention. they don't even know that their thoughts are 95% about an "i" that doesnt exist, and that these thoughts color their entire experience. the "self" is a shitty illusion that gets people to do things related to surviving and procreating while making them miserable - that's it.
>>472844080what the fuck is your definition of free will. so i can constantly reference it in my replies.
>>472844108>most people dont pay attention. they don't even know that their thoughts are 95% about an "i" that doesnt exist, and that these thoughts color their entire experience. the "self" is a shitty illusion that gets people to do things related to surviving and procreating while making them miserable - that's it.Cool story, but what I want to see is some empirical evidence of this "cause and effect" and "determinism" free will deniers typically base their claims on.
>>472829948The universe is deterministic by the laws of physics, there is no free will, only the illusion of free will. The present is a direct causal effect of the past. The way humans evolved and interact with the world gives a sensation of meaningful choice and there is about 40 milisecond visual, touch, audio sensory delay so we only really experience the past around us.
>>472844108actually i can choose my thoughts. i can choose what to think about. you shits all wrapped up in shitty thought experiments . tell me more about this illusion of self.
>>472844285>The present is a direct causal effect of the pastProof?
>>472844187>what the fuck is your definition of free willSee>>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequencesThat's more freeing that just claiming I can make a choice therefore free will >>472844187>so i can constantly reference it in my replies.What you'll mostly likely do is a strawman in an attempt to find a "gotcha" and when you can't do that or get called out you'll just leap to another homosexual projection
>>472844285you see a system and rip out its compmexity becuase you are a pop sci retard.
>>472844326History
>>472835849nigger you cant choose to stop thinking or to stop having an impulse to do something. you cant sit still for an hour and not have a thought or an impulse to move. you cant choose your feelings or your choose to be happy all the time.if you can't do any of that, clearly you dont control anything. if you look for this "you" that you assume has existed across time - eg you when you were young vs you right now, you will realize this you doesnt exist - it isnt a thing. yet your i/me/my thoughts are about a "you" (aka "self") that exists across time. if this makes sense to you you would agree - there is no self or free will.If you disagree you haven't paid attention and are just spewing your argumentative thoughts like a nigger chimping out.
>>472842625>not to test whether or not things randomly pop into existenceSomething popping into existence with no apparent cause satisfies this condition until it can be proven otherwise, retard. It's a specific case of a general principle; you only need one example to falsify something. Now, does this conclusively prove that the thing that popped into existence was uncaused? No, as there could be a cause you haven't yet been able to detect. But that's the nature of the empirical process and inductive reasoning. Do you have a better proposal?
>>472844483>Do you have a better proposal?That anon will just claim to filter your ID
>>472836414nigger the fact you had an impulse to fast for a while doesnt mean you have agency. that's just an illusion. a nigger will get an impulse to grab his crotch. he will grab his muh dick and say, that be my proof of free will. I chose to grab muh dick.when he had the impulse to grab his muh dick - and couldn't stop - because he is a stupid nigger. and he didnt choose to be born a nigger. it just happened because two niggers had the niggerish impulse to fuck and a baby nigger resulted.
What is the argument as to why free will doesn't exist for Men?
>>472844285Bro that's *puffs joint* like, so deep *opens pornhub* and stuff. Like, that really changes *orders rare funko pops on ebay* the way I *orders $200 PS1 game on ebay* see the world
>>472844409Your incoherent babble has no bearing on anything I've pointed out.
>>472844666>I can't argue against what you said FTFY
>>472844483>Something popping into existence with no apparent cause satisfies this condition until it can be proven otherwiseEven if it were definitely true that nothing can pop into existence without a cause, determinism doesn't follow. Try again.
>>472844360you prance around the issue like a faggot sophist. even now you cant define free will becuase youll be doing what i ask you too. but if the argument is hinged on free will, then you dont have a pot to piss in and youre just taking the piss out of anyone who takes the bait which is me becuase everyone else had the sise idea to filter your troll ass. i ask you to define free will and you give me the same shit youve been referencing so is >Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequencesjust redefining free will?
>>472844614i likd your use of colorful language like the word "impulse" it could clearly be anything but.
>>472844762>you prance around the issue like a faggot sophist.Like clock work again.>>472844360>What you'll mostly likely do is a strawman in an attempt to find a "gotcha" and when you can't do that or get called out you'll just leap to another homosexual projectionIs your will "free" if it's so easily predictable?>just redefining free will?So when you asked me to define free will and I did, you agree? Jesus Christ man, figure yourself out
>>472837693so if a human fucks and ape and they have a kid, does the kid get the "free will" from the human, or none? how does that work? what makes humans special? is a 75% human something with free will or is it an animal without free will?>>472838363see above - how are whites different from niggers or chimps? how does the "free will" get passed on? I am not saying whites dont have more impulse control than niggers. just that they don't choose to be that waynobody chooses anything. if you disagree just choose yo not have a thought for the next 10 minutes and choose yo be very happy. you cant, nigger.
>>472844750>Even if it were definitely true that nothing can pop into existence without a cause, determinism doesn't followCongrats he answered your question
>>472844944This post highlights your inability to conceive what free will could potentially be. Very low IQ, strong effort considering.
>>472844890the predicatability has no bearing on free will. a choice can still be predicted and be a free choice. understanding why we make choices doesnt make them any less free. perhaps in some cases it would make them more free. so you agree free will exists then?
>>472838840learning requires no agency. e.g. you learned niggers stink without wanting to or choosing to. >>472838951no, if one is an honest contemplative that sees that an erroneous belief in agency leads to suffering, he might try to get people to notice that noone has agency.
>>472830080>I debate things in my head. Therefore free will is true and determinism is false. Personal responsibility.Damn bro that's deep.
>>472829948Meme flaggot
>>472845078If no one has agency, killing """contemplatives""" like you, who deny free will, should go completely unpunished.
>>472830374>Consciousness is not identical to brain chemistry and neural states because it just isn't. Something something, quantum mechanics, qualia, Heisenberg uncertainty principle, Gödel's incompleteness theorem, emergent properties. That's reductionist and undermines people's freedom and personal autonomy. Math exists even though we can't see it. Therefore acasuality can also exist or something. If I say the word "quantum" enough times maybe it'll finally make sense!>*two minutes later*>omg that person has depression and allegedly low serotonin levels? He's dangerous. We need to put him on medicine.Why are they like this? Yes it is the same exact people who often hold these two views.
>>472845077>the predicatability has no bearing on free will.And the slaves chains have no bearing on the slaves freedom, as long as the slave remains within the confines of his chains>a free choiceDemonstrate a choice free from the chains of cause and effect >so you agree free will exists then?See>>472844360>>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequencesThat's more freeing that just claiming I can make a choice therefore free will
>>472845078just becuase it leads to suffering doesnt mean its "erronious" .eustress is good for you. i also learned niggers stink by choosing to be around them.
>>472829948If no one has free will, arguing is pointless since no one can change their actions or point of view. You're a self defeating idiot and, as always, OP is a faggot.
>>472845214You sound mentally ill.
>>472845329>I can't argue against itFTFy
>>472844248you cant sit still and not have thoughts, impulses or feelings. e.g. try to sit still, dont have thoughts, dont have impulses to move and be happy.you want do it. that's the evidence you dont have the ability to choose your thoughts, impilsesbor feelings.I am not talking about concepts of causality. I am just proving that theres no agnecy.while you sit down and pay attention, you might notice that this "I" you think about doesnt exist like your body or the floor under your feet - it is not a thing. it is a concept that you imagine and care about.meanwhile a nigger, call him Nigtavious, thinks about his "self" and does a bunch of nigger things (e.g. steals and rapes) to take care of his self .a small amount of introspection will demonstrate that "free will" (a sep!rate self choosing things separately from the rest if the universe) - which is what most imagine they have - is a shitty illusion.it is a bit like your blind spot (cause by your optic nerve) - you dont notice it normally, but can pay attention while doing an experiment and readily see it.
>>472845258cause and effect is a paradigm. you know back in the day they used to do all sorts of crazy things like passing a baby under a cow 5 times for health reasons, or sacrificing people to the rain god to ensure a good harvest. hume said it is human hubris in which we claim if a then b, its all based off of past expierence . all swans are white becuase we never seen a black swan. a person who predicts his own behavior has mastery over themselves.
>>472845577>I am not talking about concepts of causality.Then I don't care what you have to say, because I'm here to talk about the fallacies of arguing against free will based on beliefs in determinism and causality.
>>472844308choose to not have a thought for 2 minutes. you cant do it nigger. you cant choose to think about a topic (e.g. niggers) and only have those thoughts. you dont control your thinking - it is a shitty illusion that there is a "you" controlling your thoughts. that belief arises in your consciousness and you believe it and then say, "I have free will Nd can control my thoughts". you are just a nigger who isnt paying attention.
>>472845329If you rewinded reality and hit play. It wouldn't suddenly be different. The "free wills" of the participants wouldn't suddenly act differently. Given the antecedent spatio-temporal arrangement of matter, the positions of atoms, and their velocities. There's only one way it could've gone. Get mad little bitch.
>>472845671>cause and effect is a paradigmYup, examples an patterns leading to and from a choice
>>472845329It's weird how the same "personal responsibility" "free will" people suddenly do a 180 when it comes to Charles Manson, "cults", and Osama bin Laden. Suddenly "mind control" is very real.
>>472845779Who would you rather trust.1. Free will believer who has to constantly and actively "choose" not to rape or murder you.2. Determinism believer who doesn't suffer with having to make those choices in the first place. They simply don't have the propensity, proclivity, predisposition, capacity, or capability to commit such an act. It simply isn't their nature.Geez it's tough.
>>472845671>a person who predicts his own behavior has mastery over themselvesWhich aligns with >>472834907>Once you really understand how impactful your choices are then you learn to make better choices and create a better environment to make better choices that have the most optimal outcomes aka consequences
>>472845038nigger people who dont pay attention assume they have "libertarian free will" - a self that acts independent of the rest of the universe.if you are going to wear a fedora, act smug and say that that's not what free will is, your probably a fan of Daniel Dennet, haven't done any introspection and are a narcissist.so your are like a nigger who thinks he is free because he really wanted to rape that white woman and did it.
>>472845885The idea that human behavior comes down to "personal responsibility" and "free will" and not race and genes is responsible for desegregation, mass immigration, and race mixing.You can't believe in racial realism (which entails biological determinism) and "personal responsibility" at the same time.
>>472845763i do control my thinking. sure i can get carried away by the currents in my stream of consciousness. but i can also steer and navigate through it and even swim against the current (though not for long) there are times when i have "no thought" but it doesnt last very long. just like free will. i can exercise it when i can, but i can get burnt out and exhausted. you guys are all approaching free will like physists and philosophers when you should be approaching it like a psychologist.
>>472845984Oh, you're ackchually vile and retarded. My bad bro.
>>472845185why do you say that? we can punish niggers because we are better off if we do. e.g. likes dont choose to be scheming thieves. we dont have a way to reform them. so we put them in camps to protect the rest of us. we dont blame the kikes. we just make the best decision we can - as it is natural to do that. I dont need agency to be utilitarian, nigger.
>>472845779>If you rewinded reality and hit play. It wouldn't suddenly be different.Cool story, but it's unclear how your retarded fantasies relate to physical reality.
>>472846078Oh okay. So get a new favorite color.
>>472845941free will isnt instantaenious.
>>472846117>why do you say that?Because it follows logically from your premise. There is no basis to punish anyone if they never had a choice in the matter. You can punish them still, but it would be nothing more than an angry chimpout on your part.
>>472846148>but it's unclearSkill issue. Upgrade your firmware with more nuance >>472846196>free will isntThe irony in that statement
>>472846158that would be a free choice
>>472846280How is something free if it has a cost?
>>472845264if you spend time around a guy with tourette's and hate him for his ticks, you are suffering because you have an erroneous belief that he has agency.similarly, info out you in a room with a rope and you misoerceive it as a snake, that's your misperception leading to suffering.seeing through the shitty illusion of agency is powerful and liberating, and typically ends about 95% of most people's suffering.people spend their lives trying to be happy- that's why jews and niggers steal, why race traitors betray their race, etc.if more people saw through the illusion of self they might annoy the rest of us less.
>>472846271you havent heard of free wont?its a theme in this thread. even still. i never said that free will is a casual or that it happens all at once. free will takes time.
>>472846353whats the cost of picking a new favorite color?
>>472846353Free as in freedom, not free exchange kek.
>>472844326The sun "comes up" every morning. More complex systems like neuron activation in a brain works by the same principle it is just requires for now impossible amount of computational power to tell your thoughts in advance but in theory it is possible. Best we can do is weather forecast and particle experiments at the moment.
>>472846353Think of your favorite color. Why is it your favorite color? Is it because it "deserves" it? Is it because it "earned" your respect? Is it because it "put in more work" than the other colors? No, even though capitalism and free will requires you to believe so.
>>472846431>you havent heard of free wont?Explain it>i never said that free will is a casual or that it happens all at once.Never said you did?>free will takes timeWhy exactly?>>472846463Dropping another color, making choices that are in favor of that color or colors. Having more recognition for that color or colors etc
>>472846359did you learn that from your swami gupta guru sensei?he must be wise. how much is it to attend his meditation workshop?
>>472846078you cant choose to be smart and wise. nor can you choose to be happy. you'll just do this until you have an impulse to do something else. them you'll think, "I" chose to do that, of my own free will.no different than a nigger thinking he is awesome and really full of free will for choosing to wear a flashy purples suit with a giant pimp hat.the nigger cant choose to not be a nigger.
>>472846531>Free as in freedomNothing is free
>>472846621>Think of your favorite color. Why is it your favorite color?Exactly
>>472846614So you have absolutely nothing to offer? No proof? Nothing? Just preprogrammed corporate rhetoric?
>>472846662Free will can be called freedom of choice. It's not about money, charity or exchanging metaphysical goods you retarded burger.
>>472846764>Free will can be called freedom of choice.Demonstrate choice that is free from cause and effect
>>472846629free wont is like fasting. youre hungry but choose not to eat. impulses you choose not to engage with. i said free will takes time becuase1.the universe is nonsimultaeniously apprehended2.it actually takes alot of effort to make a "free choice"the cost of a new favorite color seems pretty trivial. as far as consequences go. it one of the more inconsequential ones.
>>472846764>It's not about money, charity or exchanging metaphysical goodsBrother you need to go back and read my replies if you think that's my argument lol.
>>472830032That your decisions are made freely is the greatest illusion.
>>472846231no - it is cold and utilitarian. e.g. we dont get angry at bacteria and angrily kill them. same for tapeworms. jews and niggers are like tapeworms - we protect ourselves from them.some of us may have angry impulses to punish them, rooted in the erroneous belief that Jiztavion could choose to not rape, or that Shlomo could choose to not run that $100 million insurance scam. the sages among us realize that none of us choose our experience and nonetheless make the best decision he can.stupid Christians typically believe in free will and the necessity of agency to run a justice system. neonazis don't need those erroneous beliefs- we just accept reality as it is and do our best.
>>472846661is that what your swami guru mamji baba yaga told you? wow.
>>472846820>causecan be done>effecthow is anything done if there is no effect?
>>472846921>no - it is cold and utilitarian.No, it's just a rationalized chimpout from a nigger ape piece of meat acting out its physics while pretending it's doing so as a matter of rational choice while simultaneously claiming that no choices are ever made. ID goes to the filter now. You are a subhuman and I've just demonstrated it very conclusively. It's morally ok to end you and anyone who talks like you.
>>472846890>youre hungry but choose not to eat.Why did you make that choice and what are you hoping to achieve?>2.it actually takes alot of effort to make a "free choice"Because of all the causes and effects one has to consider when making this "free" choice >the cost of a new favorite color seems pretty trivialThe statement wasn't if it's "trivial" but that there is a cost regardless. Whucb you acknowledge there is. So, how is something free if there is a cost?
>>472845912>let me tell you why you should grant me unconditional trustAtheist explains what is his ploy here>>472845885>if free will exist, it must be absolute>if free will isn't absolutely, it cannot exist The chemicals in your mind are real and acts similarly to the ones in the brains of animals. You just have ability to not be animal, but this can become weak like unused muscle
>>472846631no. I just spent some time paying attention. paying attention isnt a fag/commie/new age thing to do.eventually, if you get miserable enough, you might spend a little time paying attention to things.if you do you will likely agree with me, even if you differ in other respects.
>>472847043>how is anything done if there is no effect?Exactly
>>472847047>ID goes to the filter nowKek
>>472844750Nothing popping into existence without a prior cause is literally determinism. The point of the test is to falsify it, remember? That's what you asked for. So if you find something popping into existence uncaused, then determinism has been falsified. What more do you want?
>>472846898If you speak of karma then it is definitely metaphysical goods, charity can be replaced by selflessness (detachment of egoistic effect) and money by selfishness (personnal gain from effect).Then again karma is subjective, what is favorable to one is depreciable for another.Her you mention >>472844406 which is once again the subjective interpretation of events (causes and effects).Julius caesar said that history is written by the winners, napoleon said that history is a lie agreed upon.
>>472847088when the returns are exponentially larger than the cost. the cost is trivial. or if the choice holds little value to the person if they dont really care about a favorite color. youre equivocatibg free will to free energy. you should just make a thread on that since people want to go into quantum mechanics and shit.
>>472847193>Nothing popping into existence without a prior cause is literally determinism.No, it isn't. It's a much weaker claim. It's in fact also unfalsifiable, but that's not even relevant.
>>472844308The illusion of self is your interface device for the world. Turn it off for free will.
>>472847128you pay attention to your trauma and intellectualize it as a defense mechanism. thats all im seeing. .and thats your choice.
>>472829948So then why hasn't the tribe of people genetically related to me taken over the world yet? Psyops and hybrid war are things I conceived of even before I had a name for them.I'm a basque.
>>472847393>return to monkeno . i dont think i will.
>>472847285>what is favorable to one is depreciable for another.Yup>which is once again the subjective interpretation of events It's still a part of history regardless>>472847365>when the returns are exponentially larger than the cost.Still a cost and therfore not truly free. They are negligible but they aren't free >youre equivocatibg free will to free energySounds like another strawman. Explain how exactly
The argument against free will isn't an argument against free will. In 99.9% of cases, it isn't a sincerely crafted argument, it's a case that the person arguing wants to justify their immoral behavior. "Yes, I robbed a bank - I couldn't not do it! We have no free will.""Yes, I molested a child - I couldn't not do it! We have no free will.""Yes, I murdered a human being - I couldn't not do it! We have no free will."This is classic Talmudic Jewish thinking where they obsess and fantasize about outwitting God. No different than beating a chicken or putting up eruv wires.
>>472847047a lot of people get upset when someone like me points out that they and others dont have free will.the bad feelings are rooted in the thoughts like, "i do control things. e.g. I am choosing to scratch my itch... he is wrong I am right."the illusion of a self a mind agency - even though it is a shitty illusion - most evident in the case of grandiose niggers who think they choose to like malt liquor and fried chicken because they are intrinsically awesome - gets humans to survive and procreate. so it is natural that people misperceive things.e.g. men interpret ambiguous signals from women as evidence the women want to fuck. this misperception is incorrect but helps men to pass on their genes. they dont choose to misperceive. it serves a purpose.similarly, your belief in agency probably gets you to live a life that doesnt look like Diogenes's. e.g you wear nice clothes or work a job.that's where the no free will types often wind up - they dont give a shit anymore.
The Lord Creator is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent. His perfect knowledge of our "choices" before we "choose" them is called determinism
>>472847145The act is not beholden to the consequences though. You can't undo it and it doesn't care if you didn't like the result.
>>472847622>The act is not beholden to the consequences thoughDepends on thenact and consequences. The consequences may affect you but still happens and still creates effects >You can't undo it and it doesn't care if you didn't like the result.Agreed
>>472829948>Free will. Individualism.>Wahhhhh the Jews brainwashed all the girls to hate me.Pick one.
>>472847450I am not traumatized when I notice I am not choosing my next, thought, impulse or feeling. same thing when I watch a dog or a nigger or jew do the next thing, without choosing to do the most dog, nigger or kike thing.you sound triggered because I have argued convincingly that living beings dont have agency.as I previously explained this is rooted in the self and its thoughts about agency, and the feeling that it matters.you believe your thoughts are true so you suffer. e.g. you dislike me because you believe your thoughts. niggers are the same.he be raciss. fuck dat cracker.niggers don't notice - they exist because the white man happened upon fertilizer and provided food to make more niggers. rather than being grateful for existing niggers present white people- because they have nigger thoughts and believe those thoughts.
>>472847542>ascend from monkeyftfy you can do it I know you can
>>472829948speak for yourself, automaton. guess you didnt decide to make this thread but followed big bang destiny or something
>>472847731>Depends on thenact and consequencesNo act is possible to take which depends on the circumstances. If it did it would be an impossible act and not an act at all.
>>472847945He's right tho, your trauma is part of your environment. You're free to chose what is part of your environment and regulate how you'll be more likely to react to stimuli.You're not any living being, you're one that evolves in an environment that is defined through complex conventional abstractions.
>>472848113>No act is possible to take which depends on the circumstancesThat's demonstrably false. I go to work (an act) to depend on the money it pays me (consequences/circumstances)
>>472848230Those consequences are obviously not relevant to the possibility of the act.
>>472848230Similarly, I use the money from said job to buy groceries(an act) to depend on that food to feed me (circumstances)>>472848297>Those consequences are obviously not relevant to the possibility of the act.If they weren't then I wouldn't br working that job
>>472847560https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energyhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamic_free_energyhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motionlike those systems people make that are supposed to go on forever. but they always loose energy and will eventually stop. i mean if you want to couch free will in terms of a no cost choice thats impossible becuase you and your brain needs calories and protiens and fats and salts to make those choice lest you die from exposure. what about a negative cost action? like that one time oil was -40 dollars a barrell.
>>472847567most peoply denying free will are mostly just trying to justify faggotry.
>>472848363Yeah but you still could though.
>>472848379>i mean if you want to couch free will in terms of a no cost choice thats impossibleI know. Hence free will being an illusion and not truly free
>>472829948Haha, yeah, I remember when I turned 18 and immediately had it all figured out, too
>>472848540Sure but the consequences of working a job for no pay prevents me. The consequences affect the choice and visa versa
>>472847964engaging in lizard brain behavior is a step back on the evokutionary scale on the order of billions of years. the parts of our brain that developed for executive functioning is something i prize and enjoy using.
>>472848645But only after the event has already happened.
>>472848710>lizard brain behaviorCan you post an example?
>>472848544and this is why you are talking more about free energy than free will. free energy is impossible in a closed system.
>>472848544Free-will is logically an illusion from both a theistic perspective, as in >>472847603, as well as from a secular materialist perspective where all of reality is simply a link of causalityThere's a million coping Christians in this thread trying to pretend that their God didn't create people knowing that 99.9% of them will be tortured in lava foreverIf the Christian God is real (he's not) then he made people already knowing that they would end up in hell
>>472848777Depends on the context as we see here>>472848230>I go to work (an act) to depend on the money it pays me (consequences/circumstances)And here >>472848363>Similarly, I use the money from said job to buy groceries(an act) to depend on that food to feed me (circumstances)And then here >>472848645>the consequences of working a job for no pay prevents me. The consequences affect the choice and visa versaI don't need a job to tell me it's not going to pay me to know I won't work there. Amd not having money does affect my choice both from past experiences and for future outcomes
>>472848917all that shit thats in the amygdala. sex drive, hunger, sleep, fight or flight. without the presence of premeditation.
>>472848929>and this is why you are talking more about free energy than free will.You've yet to actually explain this >>472848940>Free-will is logically an illusion from both a theistic perspective, as well as from a secular materialist perspectiveAgreed
>>472849043That's the things I'm saying keep us from experiencing free will. It's why monks sit on mountains fasting and stuff.
>>472849067an acasual choice is one that doesnt require the "energy" of past causes and effects. i.e. a choice that is self contained like an existential perpetual motion machine.a choice that literally takes 0 effort and work. physists will tell you creating energy out of nothing is impossible.
>>472849410>an acasual choice is one that doesnt require the "energy" of past causes and effectsDemonstrate a truly acasual choice
>>472849176a sense of self is correlated with big brains. animal experiment where they put an x on the forehead of an animal and showed them a mirror. only a few species recognized the x on their own head.
>>472829948Ultimately you allow yourself being influenced thus have free will
>>472849584That's not surprising.
>>472849472i cant becuase any choice i make needs energy. and whatever source i draw that energy from you will call a cause of that choice.
>>472833756>yes this cause and effect cycle is an inevitability.Considering you said this>>472849410>an acasual choice is one that doesnt require the "energy" of past causes and effects.?Which then leads to>>472849472>Demonstrate a truly acasual choiceSeems like your flip flopping my man
>>472849472>Demonstrate a truly acasual choiceThere are none. All things are conditions that have arisen from causes. All of reality is an endlessly shifting maelstrom of causalityGod alone is causeless, unborn, undying
>>472829948Nigger
>>472849846>i cantThen your argument isn't founded and therfore irrelevant
>>472849873>There are none. All things are conditions that have arisen from causes. All of reality is an endlessly shifting maelstrom of causalityAgreed
>>472829948every living thing has parameters it operates within. parameters existing does not preclude free will, nor does it prove predetermination.these threads all reek of first year college kids posting stoned after attending a generic 100 level lecture
>>472849472at best it would be some sort of choice made outside of time. like a choice made by a higher dimensional being.
>>472850035Good luck demonstrating that beyond a reasonable doubt
>>472849847no im not flip flopping youre just a faggot who likes to be a greek sophists that loves to get fucked by older ugly men like socrates.
>>472849893holy shit you are a bot arent you. wow.
>>472850166free energy doesnt equal free will
>>472850166we can talk about the existance of god or the soul if you would like
>>472850169>youre just a faggot who likes to be a greek sophists that loves to get fucked by older ugly men like socrates.And again with the homosexual projection >>472850205>>472850237>>472850481Wow, I've caused this anon to break down lol
>>472850481I've already heard enough of your personal feelings and opinions
>>472838282this had me wonder, well, what does it matter? what does free will being a thing have to do with your day to day? what would free will look like if we don't currently have it? do any other life-forms on this planet have free will?free will being a concept human mind composed.how interesting.
>>472850601yes my woldview is absolutley rocked becuase some faggot got me to reply to a bait thread by using faggy ass rhetorical tricks and semantic chicanery to make homself believe hes winning a debate. oh my god i just learned i have no free will. everything i want to do takes effortwhat will i do ahhhhh. god youre so fucking gay. im glad you enjoyed your time fucking with a nobody. hopefully you got alot of naterial for your book report faggot.
>>472850649since you seem to repeat yourself so much i assumed that already when this thread was at 69 replies.
>>472850795>got me to replySo much of that "free will" kek.
>>472850924>I've been dunked on 69 timesKek
>>472850939ahh yes becuase replying to troll threads immediatly disproves free will. you are a faggot that must have sucked 30 dicks in the course of shitposting.
>>472850982if thats what you want to tell yourself. you are free to do so.
ill fucking post till archive idgaf
fucking fay faggot ass shit fucking dicksuckertoo bad theres no mercy in a world without freewill. cant help being a faggot shit bitch troll as faggot godamn
fucking bitch.
yeah tooo bad faggot ass sophist troll cunt cant just drop dead without anyond noticing or caring and the world carrying on as if he never existed in the first place. a real damn shame i didnt string you up and burn you like a faggot when i caught onto your game. real damn tragedy that.
ohh you got me good yeah you schooled me. look how mad i am. look how angry you got me. free will doesnt exist becuase i rustked anons jimmies.
nigger bitch cunt fucker. i hope you rule the worldi hope you have tons of sex. i hope you enjoy your life you fucking cunt
>>472851036>replying to troll threadsIf you had free will then you'd stop posting but I guess I compel you this much lol
>>472851254>>472851320>>472851353>>472851485>>472851593>>472851658>free will brokenKek
i hope youre laughing right now. i hope you got a million dollars in the bank. i hope you gave a three story stone mansion by the beach. i hope you entire family loves you
>>472829948I have free will and you don't.
>>472851750i dont care >>472851833keep telling yourself that you generalizing simp fuck. go stereotype the universe you shit heel
>>472851920>I don't care >86 pbtidLOOOOL
youre arguing with a broken record so you obviously have no free will. im le master troll. gib mod status plz.
>>472851996>youre arguing with a broken recordLol. Lmao.
>>472851982let me qualify i no longer care about your fucking mindgames. i do it in spite of it.
>>472852044lol indeed lol indeed.
>>472852068>i no longer careAs you make a reply to tell me how much you don't care hahaha
ahhhh ive argued with a shitheel with nothing to show for it. thiz thread isnt even worthy of a screen cap. im le epic master troll
>>472852127we can keep doing this i dont care
>>472852171>ahhhh ive argued with a shitheel with nothing to show for it.Huh? There's 90 pbtid, that's a lot of hurt feelings you've shown
nigger
>>472852219>i dont care>91 pbtidWhen you've got nothing left, this is what you do
>>472852234frustration dealing with faggots isnt hurt feelings. but maybe ill go on a killing spree becuase you make me that frustrated.
>>472852292youve been reoeating yourself and only engage in trolling. the fact that you continue with this faggot ass shit is proof as much.
>>472852331>frustrationAw little bro. It's ok, you're learning from the consequences of your own actions >>472852392>youve been reoeating yourselfIt's called consistency little bro.
oh my god im angry by a troll ive clearly lost the game oh nomy internet cred will be dashed
