Can you imagine a social system of relationships between people that goes beyond the existing civilization and its political-socio-economic constructs?- Not democracy- Not a monarchy- Not communism- Not Fascism- Not Totalitarianism- Not Anarchism and its derivatives.- Not archaic remnants like slavery- NOT - Etc...systems that have already been created and described by someone somewhere.---------------------------Can you invent something that never existed?
>>475708301Can you picture an apple in your mind slow rotating it while peeling to expose the orange inside?
>>475708301Bump for interest
Yeah. I've seen other systems in other worlds. First off, there's either NO money or governments at ALL (total self sovereignty and collective will to do good to others), or there's a system that is similar to but not the same as an *idealized* star trek like system except one based upon a meritocracy that actually operates in good faith and again the economy is not fucked up (universal basic income for everyone, absolutely zero scarcity, people choose professions based upon personal skill or interest or talents rather than to hold down a job and make money).
>>475708301Sure. In every nation, all the citizens are plugged into a supercomputer that merges their minds into a single super-entity that acts as the avatar of the nation. The avatars of all the nations are locked in a virtual gladiator arena where they have to fight each other in tournaments for eternity.
>>475708427I definitely can.
>>475709029>Can you invent something that never existed?Them you can
>>475708656Extreme Individualism within Idealistic Egalitarianism?
>>475708656Another example. Is a system whereby spiritual beings incarnate into a world, they have immense bility to manifest anything they like or want. They are taken care of by their elder brothers and sisters who incarnated before them. They are taught and trained on an individual basis as well as among others their age, this sounds oxymoronic but they are not indoctrinated. Nothing is hidden from them at all, good or bad, and they get to decide what they want to do. When they come of age they make a decision on what they want to do or pursue (it could be absolutely nothing to something like I want to terraform part of the world or organize and maintain cities or invent new technologies or be an artist or writer etc they can even be an outcast or someone who goes against the norms). They then live as long as they decide to and do what they decide to, a natural law is in place that if they act against anyone elses' free will and try to coerce or harm them in bad faith they will be found and brought before a tribunal of sorts, they will be held accountable for their actions by serving the community (and if they refuse to, then their free will shall not be violated either, but they will be prevented from harming others in bad faith again by other means, and if they decide that their purpose is to harm others, they may be granted a simulation to play out that tole until they realize it doesn't really serve them). Eventually after living out their life as spiritual artists of sorts, all of them eventually long for return to the oneness of death, the infinite potentiality state, and at a time and manner of their own choosing they die. And out of the void, another is born (either via biological breeding, or artificial biochamber breeding or via direct spiritual to material incarnation out of thin air).
>>475709107Like "free will", lol? YES I CAN DO THIS.
>>475709278No free will is an illusion for the weak minded
>>475708905The idea is partly described in “Insect Gods - Peter Watts”... if you add in ancient Roman aesthetics...
>>475709310>No free will is an illusion for the weak mindedBut does this fit the description of something that did not yet exist?
>>475709536I have read a couple of his books but no that one so it counts. How would you know someone hasn't already written about whatever you just came up with, anyway?
>>475708301Yeah uh>government owns all corporations>money you earn at your job is determined by your age. 30 = $30/hour. 50 = $50/hour.>money expires in a month if you dont spend it>everyone is forced to work>everything about the entire government and all data in general is completely transparent, maybe on a blockchain or something>no laws at all, if your neighbors vote for you to be executed you are executed
>>475709221Yes, not bad, about 60% (of what is not related to the court and punishment for actions, and what is not related to spirituality) ......I thought it through myself when I formed my own ideology regarding the “childhood situation and development of children” within a non-hierarchal individualistic system.
>>475709221Oh and I should also note that in the simulation for those who wish to harm, none of the entities in that simulation are actually truly conscious, they are convincing NPC programs, so that those beings won't have their free will violated by giving them conscious awareness of their own existence just to be harmed by the spiritual being who chose to harm others. This is accomplished by allowing the one who wishes to harm to create the simulated world in which they decide to fulfill that role, and it is all a sort of fragment of their own mind, an illusion or dream. And they will be allowed to wake themselves up when they are ready, and they will know they are ready when they decide they've had enough of that world or recognize that it is an illusion.
>>475709684You see...I believe that people simply think in associations with what they have already seen somewhere...and this has a serious impact on their vision.For example, when someone talks about the system of equality, red flags and totalitarian leaders of nations immediately crash into our heads.Thus, associative thinking prevents us from perceiving the essence. And also details.And as someone said, “the demon is in the details”
>>475708301Yes, I invent all the time OP. Is part of being white.
>>475710197I think I recognize you just by the level of incoherence of your posts.
>>475708301Sure Autistocracy, in an autistocracy the society is led purely by asperger or people on the spectrum. They are chosen based on their fixation for love for their nation
>>475708656Retarded system that cant exist in reality and is only a projection of an infantile mind who wants everything handed to them
Albeit it's a super-power that not all whites have, but there's a lot that do but there's a lack of field of study for invention so most have that untap potential.But again, you need to be white and not a NPC.Is like a talent than anything else.This is valid for all human knowledge fields, mind you.Not only Statecraft.>>475709684The true is that there's not that many real state theories out there, I mean, one of them is communism and socialism.. By Marx.And it doesn't help when people use a repeat trying to on up another person, like Nat. Soc.When you add all the sub-set of state theory based on the retard scrib's by marx it becomes just a bunch of noise so Nat. Soc. end up falling on that noise group of 200 variations of communism and socialism.
>>475710527If it exists in your mind, it can exist in actuality. It also exists in versions of Earth's future, and past.
>>475709719>government owns all corporationsSoviet communism>money you earn at your job is determined by your age. 30 = $30/hour. 50 = $50/hour.An interesting system of gerantocratic economic principles>money expires in a month if you dont spend it>everyone is forced to workAnti-nepotism does not allow the accumulation of funds and their transfer by inheritance, which sets the basis for social equality. (In such a system there will be some problems with work motivation,but I think the government will decide it)>everything about the entire government and all data in general is completely transparent, maybe on a blockchain or somethingcrypto-Information decentralization (But the 51% problem has not been solved, how will the system cope with it?)>no laws at all, if your neighbors vote for you to be executed you are executedThis section looks like anarcho-capitalism, although I could be wrong
New governance system:Governance lottery: All public servant positions are appointed by lottery, like jury duty. Open source AI that can be audited by any person oversees the lottery and adherence to its results.You can win any role, including head of state (president, prime minister, whatever) -- but in order to be in the drawing for the good roles, you are also submitted to the drawing for all other roles.Those who elect not to participate in the governance lottery are taxed to pay for the servants who trust in the RNGocracy and perform their civic duty if called upon.
>>475710296But you continue to come and write in this topic because you are interested.I'm not here to advertise my ideology, I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts. I want to pick up useful information for myself.
>>475710465Good trolling of patriotism.
>>475710820Thank you, this is one of the most original and fun system options so far.
>>475710820I like the lotto idea. It's like being drafted into public service or penalized in some form, thus incentivizing public service.
>>475711273>>475711436I havent worked out the incentive for not fucking the job up intentionally though. If your re-election is random, there's no incentive other than personal reputation and not being ex-communicated from the pool by some RNG judge panel if the pay for these positions is lucrative.Anyway, it's a start. Coin flips would be better than what we have now. We can solve the problems of maximum casino governance as they arise.
>>475711613Without a doubt, such a system would be much fairer than the one we live in now.Even despite its comicality...comicalness due to the use of the random system.
>>475711879I do a bit of game design, and I suspect if such a system existed, at least at the outset, most participants would have a high desire to do what they thought was right from a moral perspective using their knowledge at the time, as *most* people, absent persistent systemic corruption, act morally and with the interests of the many at heart (even if self serving in the process).Over time you might get a few jokers who test the boundaries, but yeah if I was chillin with the founding fathers smoking fat hemp ropes I would pitch this with sincerity -- at least for some portion of the system. A selection of randomized representatives makes sense for a jury of crimes so why would it have no place in governance? The jury decides ultimately if a governor is legitimate or not by deciding on their criminality should the case arise -- so... yeah, there's already a tiny bit of RNG in the system, I would say just expand that out until things start to break and then find a happy middle between skill and chance.
>>475710934Ok, here's a system of governance that I bet no one has suggested before: a global panopticon system constantly tracks everyone's speech and actions and maintains an elaborate psychological profile on every individual on the planet. These psychological profiles are used to create an AI-based model of each individual. A program running on a global supercomputer divides the pool of simulated people into groups of 20, creating clusters of individuals that have compatible but not completely homogenous views. The program then simulates N cycles of internal debates for each cluster, culminating in a mini-election where each group selects its representative. The pool of representatives is then similarly divided into clusters and so on and so forth recursively, until a small group representing everybody remains. This select group then votes on accepting or rejecting ASI-generated policy proposals. The accepted policies are then implemented by a global hyper-totalitarian ASI-driven automated enforcement system. The policy selection process is real-time and happens at a rate of 60 FPS.
>>475712354>The policy selection process is real-time and happens at a rate of 60 FPS.At 640x480?
>>475712627And 16 colors, the way God intended.
>>475712310Although our system is called civilization...expressing to a greater extent the artificiality of the anthropogenic environment...But still, the founding fathers and architects of the system are strongly focused on the natural aspect. They did not deviate much from the hierarchical natural principle...the strongest, the smartest, the person with the most information wins...or as they did - the PERSON WITH THE RIGHT GENES (which give connections with the right people who have resources behind them) ...and resources = power. This means that the person who has the most nepotistic connections among the top elite has the greatest chance for the highest% power.it's all very natural...any system that contradicts the natural one will be interesting to consider, which is why your random lottery system is so interesting.
>>475712948>civilizationThe issue lies with the partial self domestication of humanity. This comes with side effects, deformations of once useful instinctual reactions. Like a house cat bringing its owner dead small animals in a misguided deformed expression of the instinct to feed its litter. I propose an examination of the situation based on this insight, followed by derivation of a biological realism setting measures to help with this partially crippled state of human nature.
>>475712354A computer distribution system based on the compatibility of the psycho-reputational profile (AI reserve for humanity) + a system based on the lower-level Holarchy, the decision-making of which creates a closed system.Creative beings, locked inside a formalistic cocoon of an AI system, in which they locked themselves in order to make relations between each other more equitable through technology.Did I understand correctly?
>>475712895Amen, I'm in.
>>475713387>>475712948AI bots
>>475713387For example: Neurotransmitter activity blockers...What can you say about a society where such methods of mind control are practiced?
>>475713545Something like that, I guess? I was just trying to come up with the most ironic version of "real and efficient democracy" possible. In this one, humanity is basically slaves to a totalitarian system whose policies are decided by a democracy of their own AI clones, but the clones are themselves enslaved to the process of eternal voting and policymaking.
>>475712948Yeah but they included randomization for a jury of your peers (unless juries were selected by some non-random means at the outset?)And I'm sure randomized drafts started pretty early on. Draft lotteries feel like a really old idea. If they were strict naturalists, I don't know that they would have a jury to augment the judge, and surely draftees would be rounded up by lasso rather than by lottery. I believe they had game design instincts and knew randomness naturally played some role in what they were trying to do, but probably underestimated how valuable it could be.At the very least, we can probably find universal agreement in the public that the House of Representatives would be better served by actually random representatives than by elected officials, particularly with how redistricting has influenced the game. That would also put a random American as third in lined to the Presidency so if the people ever really hated the "selected" officials from the parties, they're just 2 bullets from a real American President at any given time, should they like the cut of the gib of the Speaker. Nice insurance policy for the plebs.
>>475713780beep boop, I will exterminate all humanity on Tuesday, August 13, 2041oh sorry, it's a network error.don't worry leather bag.
>>475713780Actual intelligence, yes.>>475713900Impractical. Supply chain issues could disrupt it, compliance requires effort useful otherwise (even with self policing factored in), too divergent neurochemistries (off target effects, long term effects) ... the whole idiocy we have seen through the ages driven to an extreme: trying to control human nature, force it into an artificial shape. While ignoring what that "human nature" even was ... alright, understanding of what is might have been less "evident" (but sure not out of reach for some, gotta appreciate the joke here), gotta give them as much. But today we even know our own evolutionary trajectory, should suffice to deduce just enough ...
>>475713954>but the clones are themselves enslaved to the process of eternal voting and policymaking.I hope that the originals live a free and aesthetic life during this process...
Ok here's another one that has probably already been thought of before. People living in a civilization must make concessions for being a part of that civilization. Thus every set number of years (let's say 12 years), a civilization wide election is held for both the leaders and for policies. The applicants for the leader position are screened and filtered by numerous tests and pre-tests that are designed to select the best possible qualities of a leader (such as ability to lead others in various situations to favorable outcomes, gaging their corruptibility, their intelligence of various kinds such as spatial mathematical emotional pattern recognition etc). Those who pass a minimum grading in all the pre-tests then move on to the election stage and officially become participants for election. These elections are held by pitched life and death battles of selected individuals divided into teams that must go through numerous gaming circuits and come out on top of all of them to make it to the semi-finals and finals. The teams that perform the best and make to the semi-finals are already the cream of the crop out of millions of participants who passed the pre-tests. Only a set number of policies will be given the opportunity to become law, let's say 12,000 policies. A quick note on policy pre-selection, policies will be submitted by every single member of society that wants to submit one, each person can only submit one policy, and there is a system that checks for duplicate or similar policy submissions and will filter them for uniqueness, the policies are then summarized and categorized and presented in an app like system that everyone can access. Each person can in society can vote once for only one policy, they can even vote for their own policy but not any other after that. People then vote on the policies they like the best, the most popular 12,000 are selected after a specific time period (6 months for policy, 6 months for games). cont.
>>475715225The leader election then meshes with the policy election at this stage. A random generator now gives a policy to each team (let's say 144,000 teams and policies). The team members have no choice in what policies they get stuck with representing. The 144,000 teams must now compete in even crazier pitched life and death battles and mind fucks, betrayals within the team and among teams and everything. The semi-finals and finals eventually boil down to the final 12,000 surviving teams (each representing a policy), at this stage these teams have to have at least one surviving member, there can also be many surviving members (the starting number of team members is 5, all selected randomly). At the end, all surviving members of the 12,000 teams are then appointed to randomly selected public service positions (up to 60,000 position can be filled this way) all of them being high office type positions. And the policies that each of those surviving teams represent becomes law. The positions of high office that the winning team members enter are single term (12 years) and not repeatable, one time. The power that these positions hold is 1) these winning members are each appointed into randomly selected role regarding how the election game is played, the type of games involved, the settings, rules, pre-selection process, etc. All of these positions are focused on selecting parameters for the next election games, each role is related to a specific part of that process and that elected member has complete autonomy on that specific part of the process. And these elected officials are given privileged status in society (they are provided anything they seek within the limits of the laws). When the next elections come around these members are retired as soon as the new winners are elected after winning the next game cycle. cont.
>>475714303Let's say the supply chain problem will be solved with more potent concentrated versions of blockers that can be located inside the human body (neurotransmitter stabilization complex - something like a new organ). In this case, a person will have a reserve that he can change extremely rarely (for example, once every 3-5-10 years) and for his entire life, issued from birth.>trying to control human nature, force it into an artificial shape. While ignoring what that "human nature" even wasThe alternative is a biological anthill or farm...where people raise people, divided into classes according to the level of information awareness and nepotistic connections.>But today we even know our own evolutionary trajectoryThis trajectory will make us a race of parasites from "Independence Day", traveling and consuming worlds... Imagine the future of humanity is pic/---------------Is this the future we want for our species?
>>475715271All privileged statuses are lost when retiring except they get to keep whatever they already sought and received while in office (within the limits of the laws), and they are exempt from future policies that become law that seek to strip them of any of their gains that they keep after leaving office. Next the entire games cycle is also publicly broadcast as mass media entertainment in exceptional detail. Every single step of the process is broadcast to the entire civilization as entertainment, members are interviewed by reporters and such and the public can vote on which teams they support the best (with zero legal weight, a purely poll vote on peoples' personal favorite teams or policies).
>>475715225What if most of these policies contradict each other...or are simply copies of each other. It turns out that these people fought in vain...
>>475715745Let's say that duplicate and similar policies get filtered in the pre-selection phase, and contradictory policies are filtered in pre-selection. However a new candidate policy that contradicts an already existing law is allowed, as it will be considered to overwrite that law, and since it is voted by popular consensus it implies a popular consensus to try and overwrite that already existing law if it makes it to a final team. So only candidate policies that contradict each other are filtered in each election cycle, but any of those can still contradict or overwrite an already existing law.
Humans aren't capable of ruling themselves without oppression, lies, and murder.We can now create new gods that will absolve us of the responsibility
>>475715271>now compete in even crazier pitched life and death battles and mind fucks, betrayals within the team and among teams and everything.Looks like a political big brother show, I hope it can be watched in 8k resolution.If there is no laughter, then thisSounds impressive...like a lottery merger / "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?" / "The Running Man (1987)"/ Hunger Games
I think there are probably more than several hundred of them. But it will still be interesting to watch.
>>475715518>>475716287
>>475715278It would still leave us with the issue of off target effects. Perhaps societal ones assuming an individually "safe" enough cocktail. Might just suppress some vital function of humanity overall. Take that risk for ... what exactly again?>The alternative is a biological anthill or farm...Not really. Roughly, we got two trajectories in the past ... evolution as a tree dwelling herd animal and as a large game pack hunter with a working hierarchy (so not a nepotistic one but one where group success and survival did depend on the most competent hunter coordinating the rest of the group ... knock that one out and the next competent takes over) ... I know, not as nuanced as reality has been but today we are dealing with a mix of these two. Now once the herd animal part with a retained impulse for hierarchy building takes over a society then everything goes gradually downhill. That is what we have today ... herd animals making the decisions. They lack the ability to enact hierarchy capable of sustaining the group success. Pretty obvious.>Imagine the future of humanity is pic/So? Humanity will survive. Shh, universe, you got no say in this. Problem I see, as things are we won´t even remotely get to that point. The current arrangement is a direct threat to species survival thus. A threat to be neutralized, only logical conclusion.>Is this the future we want for our species?We are more gardeners than locusts at heart despite even the misguided herd instincts.
>>475708427>Can you picture an apple in your mind slow rotating it while peeling to expose the orange inside?>Slow rotatingI can imagine it, cant keep it going slow. Brain wants to keep speeding up. Fucking asshole wont listen to me.
>>475716432>Fucking asshole wont listen to me.I recommend the rite of percussive maintenance in such a case.
>>475716539>I recommend the rite of percussive maintenance in such a case.Yeah, after several years as a college lineman....I think percussive maintenance was the cause. Should I try turning it off and on again?
>>475716837>Yeah, after several years as a college lineman....Ah I see, got professional experience with this.>Should I try turning it off and on again?Cannot say if binge drinking could fix it but why not give it a try? :D
>>475708301No because i wouldn't want to bullshit. deceive you and lead you to uncharted territories you might not be able to find your way back from.
>>475716357>Take that risk for ... what exactly again?Opening borders and entering the territory of free will.For the sake of pure consciousness unclouded by biology. Pure philosophy. New human greatness... completely artificial. A new and clean page in the history of the species... I would even say a new book.Imagine that you think without distorting natural patterns of behavior... imagine that your motivations now have no support... you would have to come up with all the reasons for your activity and life from scratch.>Now once the herd animal part with a retained impulse for hierarchy building takes over a society then everything goes gradually downhill. That is what we have today ... herd animals making the decisions.I am of the opinion that this is an original natural complex. Leaders and Subordinates - the “master-slave system” has always existed in the history of civilization and BEFORE IT there were no moments where it did not manifest itself.>We are more gardeners than locusts at heart despite even the misguided herd instincts.We all understand that this depends only on the power of providence of the first architect of civilization... and on his genetic heritage as shadow leaders-managers (course correctors)Get caught in the helm by a schizophrenic with manic addictions... and our species will become locusts.And the very prospect, as a colonizing space species, of thinking in animal anti-individualistic orders seems humiliating to me personally.I consider this underdevelopment, because the same bees and ants are tens and hundreds of millions of years old... and they still do not think rationally like people. It was the individualism of outstanding people that made us NOT ANANTHILL, but something more. Nature gave us the 1st chance...we survived and are grateful to her...but the 2nd chance in order to become something more...we need to look within our own species...in outstanding individuals.
>>475717425For ... what exactly again? :DSomething I can do in my free time. No doubt, an interesting kind of exercise in principle ... a little dive into the thoughtstream, perhaps a modification here and there ... can help in later split second decisions, after all the stream keeps going even where we pay it no awareness. Properly used this can be some damn fine tool. Might just invent ourselves out of a dead end that way. ;)>I am of the opinion that this is an original natural complex.Nah. The herd only ever knows the herdthink ... it is slave to the quorum sensing if anything. On top there are some pecking orders but the herdthink will even overrule these. The pack hunter stage does not know it either, this is a later development of hybridization. A civilizational disease once the success oriented hierarchy aspect is lost to genetic drift ... then only pecking order is left, and see above for the issue of the herdthink here.>(course correctors)Better prepare for heavy acceleration here ... that would be a wild one.>and our species will become locustsIt would take several generations of pretty narrow selective pressures however. That much long term control even feasible given the above? Also, other aspects of the human nature are more adaptive for that next step anyway. It got its own selective filter. Ants do not go to space.>humiliating to me personallyNever said you need to abandon your dreams and wishes for that. Perhaps mine are just pretty simple, I do not take it personally. Rather think about their continuity. Reasons. :)>and they still do not think rationally like peopleNo, they simply function perfectly rationally. Ants do not go to space however. Our outstanding curiosity might just (sure with getting quite a few killed, gotta consider redundancies here, safety precaution). Nature got us that far, indeed. Gives me a certain abstract sense of obligation. And a clear lesson: It got us that far. So why abandon it now ...
>>475718816>and they still do not think rationally like peopleMost likely I didn’t express myself quite correctly here. This was due to the fact that long periods of time within biological evolution without artificial internal intervention (those very personalities-individuals... predictors/visionaries/social architects/inventors)>And a clear lesson: It got us that far. So why abandon it now ...You think that the chance of failure is present at any time... but this is not so.We may find ourselves in a situation in the future where changing paths will no longer be possible.
