Is it really necessary to build an authoritarian capitalist dictatorship, like fascism and Nazism, in order to preserve culture and the nation? is it possible to build a system with checks and balances of power and multiparty free elections?
>capitalistthat word doesnt make any sense outside of marxist religious dogma. The cirrent system is socialist in nature, build upon the central planned socialization of risk
>>489028212>Is it necessary Yes>Is it possible No>Capitalist????
>>489028331and what is the difference between capitalism and corporatism?
>>489028512you cant even define capitalism without having to draw from religious marxist circular logical dogma
>>489028512Corporatism has nothing to do with private ownership/modern corporations, it's a mode of organization originating in the medieval ages where everyone was organized into public bodies. There's a reason the capitalists literally dismantled medieval corporatism and replaced it with private ownership, because collective power that could fix wages, protect labor (ie limit working hours, have age limits, etc), and so on was an impediment to capitalist profits.
>>489028308so tell me?
>>489028720According to marxist dogma, its somebody that socializes his risk through a central organization and makes profits. Translated from marxist into human it means, a socialist who isnt me
>>489028685There was feudalism in the Middle Ages
>>489028512>>489028685First off, ignore the whole capitalism thing.The Corporatism that Fascism talks about is more akin to the Hobbesian Corporatism -- i.e, the Corporatism of the State itself as One Personhood.It would a misconception to think of Fascism's corporatism as private corporations (except that they are both corporations, indeed) or even a concord of guilds or syndicates.Corporatism is a political ideology built first and foremost on Unitary ideals of State, not the Aristotelian ideas that support multi-party democracies today or the estates-general in the past, where the emphasis was on the concord of these estates (or, like other people envision, numerous corporations meeting) -- no, no, no. Fascism's corporatism is unitary, it is the corporatism of the State, it is more akin to the foundations Plato laid in his Republic or Hobbes in his Leviathan (yes, both espoused this kind of corporatist view Fascism is promoting).
>>489028856you mean the socialization of the means of production under socialism, and I asked what is the essential difference between corporatism and capitalism?
>>489029171Fascism is a socialist ideology that has the notion of collective as central term in the name itself, retard
>>489028212Opposing competing ideas will create instability and inevitable collapse. The Chinese know who they are, Americans are divided and destroying the country in an effort to maintain cultural and political power.
This is the Corporatism of Fascism.It has much to do with it being a one-party State -- ideologies with Corporatist views tend to be one-party states.Corporatism is the reason it rejects multi-party democracies.>However, in speaking of the corporative State, it must not be understood as meaning only all that which pertains to the relations between employers and workers – relations based on a principle of collaboration rather than upon a struggle of classes. Fascism with its new arrangements aims at a more complex end. This, summed up in a few words, is "to reassert the sovereignty of the State over those syndicates, which, whether of an economic or social kind, when left to themselves broke out at one time against the State, subjecting the will of the individual to their own arbitrary decision, almost musing the rise of judicial provisions alien to the legal order of the State, opposing their own right to the right of the State, subordinating to their own interests the defenceless classes, and even the general interest, of which the State is naturally the judge, champion and avenger."- Giuseppe Bottai, The Corporative StatePlato Republic:>That the other citizens too must be sent to the task for which their natures were fitted, one man to one work, in order that each of them fulfilling his own function may be not many men, but one, and so the entire city may come to be not a multiplicity but a unity.Plato Laws:>That all men are, so far as possible, unanimous in the praise and blame they bestow, rejoicing and grieving at the same things, and that they honor with all their heart those laws which render the State as unified as possibleThomas Hobbes>The error concerning mixed government [constitutionalism] has proceeded from want of understanding of what is meant by this word body politic, and how it signifies not the concord, but the union of many men.
>>489029189Capitalism doesnt exist. What you mongoloids call capitalism is just socialism. The socialization of capital risks, meaning the risk of the use of anything that is considered valuable harvesting less of whatever than was put in, onto everyone else, the particular collective, while whoever made the "planning" and socialized his risk, no matter what actor it is takes riskless profits.It doesnt matter if an organization that produces whatever socializes its risk and makes its owners riskless profits or a bunch of prolls that want their risk of being sick been paid for by somebody else
>>489029235>Fascism is a socialist ideology that has the notion of collective as central term in the name itself, retardand socialism should also have a classless society and a ban on private property, unlike fascism, you fools
>>489029235The point is not to get distracted from what Corporatism is.Corporatism is simply recognizing the State as One Personhood.The discretionary details about the meaning of this and the economics comes later, but in understanding Corporatism that is what you need to realize first.
>>489028212Yeah, European imperialism did all that and had actually tenable multiculturalism to boot.
Capitalism serves the individual, Communism serves the collective, and Fascism serves the state.
>>489029589no you idiot. Fuck, you dont even understand your own religion. The scam is that to "become" the particular perfect universal true socialist "society" one has to go through a two more weeks of typical authoritarian totalitarism.Socialism is not a philosophy or even an ideology, its plane and simple a religion, for idiots with no morals or ethics, protestants
>>489029589That is only international socialism. There is another one.
>>489029656please, consider suicide collectivist. The scm started with Plato and dismissing Antisthenes for Platos retardation
>>489029589Socialism is defined by Marxists as the intermediary stage but OBVIOUSLY Nazis didn't think themselves as being in a socialist stage but it's fair to say that they've relied on both collectivism and socialist price controls, resource distribution and allocation by central planning, state quotas etc etc.
>>489029479>>489029171Hobbes is a good reference for understanding Corporatism in the vein that Fascism talks about.Of course with Fascism, it doesn't share the materialism & more individualist views of Hobbes, but it's important to also consider that Plato himself was accused of many the same things people associate with Hobbes -- i.e. individualism / atomization for centralization, that has its basis in Aristotle criticizing Plato.Aristotle Politics:>Further, as a means to the end which he ascribes to the State, the scheme, taken literally is impracticable, and how we are to interpret it is nowhere precisely stated. I am speaking of the premise from which the argument of Socrates proceeds, "That the greater the unity of the State the better." Is it not obvious that a state at length attain such a degree of unity as to be no longer a State? since the nature of a State is to be plurality, and in tending to greater unity, from being a State, it becomes a Family, and from being a Family, an Individual; for the Family may be said to be more than the State, and the Individual than the family. >So that we ought not to attain this greatest unity even if we could, for it would be the destruction of the State. Again, a State is not made up only of so many men, but of different kinds of men.
>>489030000did the nazis call themselve NAtional Democratic Worker Party or National SOCIALIST Worker Party
Aristotle also disapproved of corporatism that Plato and Hobbes espoused (yes, both espoused unitary & corporatist views, that Fascism revived).Aristotle Politics>For the people becomes a monarch, and is many in one; and the many have the power in their hands, not as individuals, but collectively. Homer says that ‘it is not good to have a rule of many,’ but whether he means this corporate rule, or the rule of many individuals, is uncertain. At all events this sort of democracy, which is now a monarch and no longer under the control of law, seeks to exercise monarchical sway, and grows into a despot; the flatterer is held in honor; this sort of democracy being relatively to other democracies what tyranny is to other forms of monarchy. The spirit of both is the same, and they alike exercise a despotic rule over the better citizens.So Aristotle & Plato set the tone:What were the estates-general in the past became multi-party democracies, and what absolute monarchy was back then later manifested as Corporatism in dictatorships and one-party states: unitary vs pluralistic views of State.
Something you faggot religious lunatic particular universalistic collectivists must arrange yourself with in the next 100 years is that the Nazis and fascists return to their own camp, the left
>>489030111Did they read Das Kapital and Lenin or not?
>>489028212Yes but you need to be exclusionary. You ever wonder why country clubs are so great and everyone gets along and just plays tennis and golf and fucks prime pussy all the time? It's because it costs like $40k a year to be a member and if you act like an asshole you get kicked out. Hey you know what else that sounds like? College. Where do most people get these gay communist ideas from again? Oh right college.
>>489030235What about the idea of state socialism?
>>489030275Historicistic retard. If you want a more or less well argued historical devolution to all particular socialisms read Erik von Kuehnelt-Leddihn, it started with Protestants
>>489030528idk, im not american
>>489030593Make of that what you will.I'm just talking about what Corporatism is.Corporatism could apply to both capitalist & socialist societies, imho.North Korea is a good example of Corporatism, I think.Anyways, I know it's cliche, but Totalitarianism also has its roots in Plato's Republic -- the reason why they want unity of emotion or a community of pleasures and pains originates there, and it's why Totalitarian propaganda has so much uniformity.Plato Republic>And there is unity where there is community of pleasures and pains–where all the citizens are glad or grieved on the same occasions of joy and sorrow?>No doubt.>Yes; and where there is no common but only private feeling a State is disorganized–when you have one half of the world triumphing and the other plunged in grief at the same events happening to the city or the citizens?>Certainly.
>>489031026well, thanks for explaining this topic anyway)
>>489030528To expand on this point, say you lived in a homogeneous society where everyone was the same race and religion. When election time came around, what lines would you generally vote along?>Income level>Geographic location>Profession>Education level>HobbiesWhen you have a multicultural society, what lines do you typically vote along?>race>religionThat's it. You will vote for whatever candidate as long as that candidate is your color. This makes democracy merely a demographics contest where the actual merit of a candidate or proposed law is irrelevant.
>>489031213Corporatism shares the same taboo in the West as Absolute Monarchy.Primarily, because Aristotle laid the foundation for that taboo, stating that Political & Economical do differ: that you cannot run the State (politics / constitutionalism) like an Estate (monarchy / one household / one party).A one-party State has the taboo of a one house State, really, in the origins of this dilemma between multi-party democracies and Fascism.Plato / There won't be any difference, so far as ruling is concerned, between the character of a great household & the bulk of a small city>Visitor: Well then, surely there won't be any difference, so far as ruling is concerned, between the character of a great household, on the one hand, and the bulk of a small city on the other? – Young Socrates: None. – It's clear that there is one sort of expert knowledge concerned with all these things; whether someone gives this the name of kingship, or statesmanship, or household management, let's not pick any quarrel with him.Filmer / Political & Economic, No Different>Aristotle gives the lie to Plato, and those that say that political and economical societies are all one, and do not differ specie, but only multitudine et paucitate, as if there were 'no difference betwixt a great house and a little city'.
>>489028212>necessaryimmaterial once you introduce (a) industrialization, (b) the birth pill, and (c) the internet to your culture, then even authoritarian dictatorship can't "save" your culture culture is to a large degree a matter of environment, and the above are significant changes to the environment.it a brave new world anon
