Bongs are cutting £500m from the defense budget. On the chopping board areHMS Northumberland (Type 23 frigate, pretty old)HMS Albion (Landing ship up to 700 marines capacity)HMS Bulwark (Same as Albion)2 Wave Class tankers14 ChinooksEntire Puma Helicopter fleetEntire Watchkeeper drone fleet (no great loss they were always garbage)This is the entirety of their sealift and amphibious potential bongs have liked to boast of here on /k/. They can no longer be considered to be able to project power overseas.I wonder if this is a really good time to be cutting defense budgets though?
>>489080514Why? Do they have enemies?
>>489080515F35 ain't cheap bro
>>489080515Russia threatens to nuke them at least once a week. Argentina is continually making threatening noises about the Falklands. As much as anything it's a shame to see them completely lose a capability. The ability to potentially drop a brigade of marines is pretty handy one. I think it means America is the only NATO state that has that capability now.
>>489080516I fail to understand how this is an answer to my question
I thought you bongs left EU to get more money? Where did it all go?
The UK clearly has no intent on asserting itself militarily so naturally they’re going to cut military capabilities. The US won’t take care of their security interests but that realization hasn’t sunk into institutionalized mindsets yet so for them cutting their military just makes sense.
>>489080514Truly a fallen empire
This thread will be samefag central.
>>489080517I don't think russia would dare to do anything more than placing shitbags on fire on the front porch, like they did with the telephone cables. And as for argentina, their navy is in such a sorry state that i'd bet my wager they would lose against a group of chinese trawlers. As a matter of fact, they should worry more about chang stealing their fish rather than obsessing over a bunch of worthless rocks in the atlantic
>>489080523>>489080517Anon, a strong military is like an erection. A good indicator of domestic harmony, but a terrible temptation to foreign adventures.
>>489080514Losing the LPDs is kinda bad, so's losing the oilers. The bongs made a critical mistake pushing forward with the QE class and the F-35s required for them. They're simply too expensive, and eat too much budget which is badly needed elsewhere. Unfortunately, they're stuck with them now, meaning they have to cut elsewhere. Back when they were first requested, the assault carrier concept was just some near-sci-fi napkinwaffe concept; the roaches were forced by circumstance to go ahead with it, when king roach got cut off from F-35s due to his little S-400 indiscretion. Ironically, this seems to have turned out for the best, since yes, assault carriers are actually a good idea. Though, admittedly, they can't really deploy heavy forces, like LPDs or LSDs can.
>>489080524
>>489080514What the fuck is the matter with Bongland and their treasonous politicians? Are they getting paid to do this?
>>489080524lmao
>>489080519To cover (unsuccessfully) the costs of leaving the EU
>>489080525It's crazy that the decision was made that the Royal Navy suddenly needed two fat aircraft carriers.
>>489080514Although there is cutting of capability, it isn't a cut in budget. The money saved is being reinvested.Into what I have no idea. Will need to wait on the review to come out. The murmuring from those in the know is that the budget will need to increase beyond the 2.5% planned for.
>>489080531Just get that stupid laser thing working already lads
>>489080532Bongs had said that once they think it's '60% ready' the would send it to Ukraine for testing.Would be funny as fuck. Hope it happens.
>>489080533INSHALLAH
>>489080517Argies barely have even a fraction of their 1982 military power they would get btfo if they tried anything. Not to mention their already disastrous economy would implode into nothing.
Sad to lose the Logistics ships.Amphibs also a loss, but arguably matter less with QE and POW in business.They aren't necessarily that useful in a peer conflict scenario either.
>>489080514>Bongs are sacrificing their navy>Meanwhile the French defense budget is expected to steadily increase in the next 7 years under the country's new military planning lawSoon...
>>489080519They didn't realize that if EU countries don't subsidize your farmers you have to pay the whole sum out of your own pocket.
>>489080538To be fair, the Russians through their agent Farage ran a very slick disinfo campaign that told a whole lot of lies.
>>489080514>This is the entirety of their sealift and amphibious potentialWhy lie? That's just verifiably false.
>>489080514The vast majority of these were already scrapped. HMS Albion and HMS Bulwark had a service time reentry of a decade. The Chinooks were the oldest ones and preparing to be scrapped as well (or sold, whatever).
>>489080537You only think so because you forgot about rushing b (send all challengers through the channel tunnel)
>This is the entirety of their sealift and amphibious potentialOh it's one of these threads where somebody reads an article, cuts out the actual context and just posts it for shitposting reasons. Alright.>>489080537The UK's defence budget is also increasing. The stuff they're removing is just stuff that was already marked for retirement like their two ships.
>>489080514>They can no longer be considered to be able to project power overseasYeah those 65,000 ton aircraft carriers are just for decoration.
>>489080517>As much as anything it's a shame to see them completely lose a capability. The ability to potentially drop a brigade of marines is pretty handy oneI guess we're just pretending the Bay class (700 marines each in overload conditions) don't exist. Someone should tell the RN.
>>489080540What other landing ships do they have?
>>489080515They have NATO obligations.
>>489080546The HMSS Wilma Fingerdew
>>489080546Literally just look at the post above yours
>>489080517We don't make "noises", there is a claim which was embedded on the constitution and every president is thus legally obligated to make a statement about it every year. Said clause also forbids the use of force to settle it.Bong tabloids put out a paranoid article every time we buy a patrol boat but the reality is that we are Western-aligned since 1983, we barely have armed forces to speak of (and what we have is NATO equipment that can be disabled like the French exocets, we keep buying Western stuff because we don't have hostile intentions), and nobody would support another war (3% would according to a 2010 poll, 97% oppose)But I understand why those paranoid articles exist, I would do the same if I was a British defense lobbyist.
>>489080550>what we have is NATO equipment that can be disabled like the French exocetsWait, do argentinians really believe that? That's nonsense. The failure and miss rate for exocets fired during the Falklands war is exactly in line with the failure and miss rates of testing. You just didn't have very many of them.
>>489080550Bit off topic but I saw an interview with Milei recently saying that he was increasing the military budget, which struck me as strange as a self-described Anarcho-Capitalist. How is he doing as the president of Argentina? Everything I've seen online is ridiculously polarized either painting him as literally the South American Hitler or the second coming of Christ.
>>489080536>>489080514Losing what? You just got two excellent AORs.You think you'll just go "oh we don't need those 14 Chinooks oops sorry for ordering so many".No source in the OP. I don't believe anything he said.
>>489080553https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2k0292v0w1oIt's completely real.
>>489080549>>489080545>>489080540The Bay class are laid up in ordinary in the Royal Fleet Auxillary. They're basically scrapped. Why did you lie and force me to go and look that up?
>>489080555>in active service with the RFA>basically scrapped???
>>489080551I mean the exocet codes story is well-known. >>489080552>Bit off topic but I saw an interview with Milei recently saying that he was increasing the military budget, which struck me as strange as a self-described Anarcho-Capitalist.The previous left-wing government left Argentina with no armed forces to speak of. Pilots died due to flying rotting Skyhawks and the ARA San Juan sunk due to skimping out on maintainance. So we basically have no airforce to speak of. The navy was in a very sorry state (like someone else said Chinese ships stealing our fish is a big concern). And it wasn't even about money, military spending got lowered from 2% of GDP in 1983 to 0.58% of GDP at present, there was ample money to maintain capabilities, they just chose not to. They did this because:1. They'd rather spend the money on gibs, military spending is not popular2. They embezzled the money they didn't spend on gibs3. It was convenient for certain politiciansto leave Argentina disarmed and unable to control the airspace because narco planes could cross more easily from Paraguay.I think the goal is to get that 0.58% back to a more reasonable 1% which will allow Argentina to patrol its airspace and waters. (But still well below what would be acceptable for a country so big IMHO)>How is he doing as the president of Argentina? Everything I've seen online is ridiculously polarized either painting him as literally the South American Hitler or the second coming of Christ.He's a bit of a clown but he did manage to balance the budget, stabilize the economy and is going forward with deregulation and privatizations which is what people voted him for (including me). For Argentina the 2023 was either become Venezuela, vote for milketoast centrists that failed to balance the budget the last time around, or vote for this meme guy that at least was determined to stabilize the economy.
>>489080556Are we just going to consider every large ferry as sealift now, because there's a legal framework by which the British government COULD appropriate them during wartime?
>>489080557>I mean the exocet codes story is well-known.It's well known bullshit.
>>489080557>* the 2023 election
>>489080558We consider the Bay class as amphibious warfare ships because they were built and put into service with the RFA for that exact purpose. I don't understand what you're confused about.
>>489080527They're Marxists, same as ours. Also, they've been disarmed and can be sent to prison for online 'sectarian speech.'In Great Britain, with all their storied bullshit about liberty and the Mother of Parliaments, you can be jailed five years for shitposting about mudslimes. And this took no debate and no vote. Their government decided they needed to quiet the natives down, and bang. Done. The Marxist business is 100% at home. The military is, if anything, an irritant.
>>489080557Interesting, thanks for the response. What do you think of his desire to join NATO? Is it a more cynical move to cover Argentina's ass through a powerful defensive pact, or does he seek to gain/contribute something else?It just seems like a radical step for a country from South America. Throughout history it seems like the entire continent seemed to keep to itself as much as possible.
>>489080558>being able to requisition ships means this purpose built ship that's in service doesn't countWhat the fuck did he mean by this?
>>489080554>The UK will save £500m by scrapping OLD military equipment EARLY>T23 replaced with T26 and T31>Wave class replaced by Tide class>Oldest Chinooks replaced by H-47(ER)>Pumas replaced with H-145Wow it's fucking nothing. Yeah you will be short for a couple years in between though.
>>489080563>What do you think of his desire to join NATO? Is it a more cynical move to cover Argentina's ass through a powerful defensive pact, or does he seek to gain/contribute something else?>It just seems like a radical step for a country from South America. Throughout history it seems like the entire continent seemed to keep to itself as much as possible.Nah, it's genuine. Most Argentines just want to live in a normal Western-style capitalist democracy, and being associated with NATO (we can't be full members because we are not in the North Atlantic, but we can be NATO partners) and joining the OECD is linked with that idea. He admires Menem which was also a president that sought closer relations with the West and OECD membership. And which got us US MNNA status in 1998. He's just picking up where we left off on the whole process of Argentina integrating with the West, which was derailed by the big Greece-style economic crisis of 2001, which got the left-wing elected into power.
>>489080566Neat. Thanks for humoring my questions, Argie anon. Good luck to your country getting its shit back together.
>>489080567Thanks m8, cheers
>>489080558This retard didn't know the RFA is owned by the MoD lmao
>>489080561>>489080564>pretending that the RFA is a teeth armWhy are bongs like this?
>>489080570>in active service>extends the exact capability he pretended didn't exist>b-but it's under the wrong labelI accept your concession. It's obvious you didn't understand what the RFA is and now you're embarrassed about it.
we need that money for albanian asylum seekers fleeing the war in albania
>>489080568NTA, but I'm also curious; How hopeful are you Argies for the future right now? I've never really paid attention to your corner of the world outside of ecology stuff, but from what I understand shit's been kinda fucked over there (at least economically) for a good while now.Do people feel like things are getting better, and do they believe this change is a permanent thing, or are they expecting things to get worse again in the future?
>>489080530the RN envisioned when the QE class was made was a lot bigger with double the number of destroyers they currently have
>>489080573You've got the Milei fanatics who think he'll turn Argentina into a new Singapore. Then you've got the seething lefties who think he's literally Hitler.But I would say the general sentiment is a mildly optimistic "let's wait and see" mode. People understand it's gonna take time to turn the ship around but the results in terms of inflation plummeting month on month and the budget being balanced, now apparently economic growth returning since mid-year give reason to be optimistic.People don't like the nuttier side of Milei (like climate change denial or the fact he calls himself an AnCap) but they are willing to put up with it as long as he delivers on the economy. It helps a lot that the centrists have allied with him in Congress and he needs them to rule, so he's implementic an orthodox standard liberalization economic plan and not his nuttier libertarian ideas like dollarization. As long as they keep reining in his Ron Paul side I think we're gonna be fine.
>>489080514>Northumberland Structurally fucked, wasn't long for this world anyways even if they hadn't found the damage, there are already 7 t26 frigates under construction.>Albion and BulwarkThey were already 20 years old and held in reserve, the RN still has 3 Bay class amphibs plus the carriers. Bulwark is probably already pre-sold to Brazil and Albion is clapped out.>Wave class tankersAlready in reserve and 20 years old, the tide class is much better>ChinooksThis seems like a mistake unless the airframes are totally worn out>PumasOLD as shit>DronesAs mentioned, shit.It's not all of their amphib and sealift capability, they're basically clearing out the reserves to make way for all the new shit on the immediate horizon. Doesn't seem particularly alarming or problematic to me.
>>489080575Cool beans, thank you!
>>489080515>Why? Do they have enemies?The bongs are basically bankrupt. They are also a couple of years from rolling blackouts due to their green energy transition.
>>489080576This. It's just like all the countries giving vehicles to Ukraine to save money so they can spend it on/justify new equipment orders.
>>489080514>>489080576I'm sorry about the pumas going. I love how they look. Maybe it's because I'm old as shit myself now, but they look how I think helicopters should look. Them and the even older Wessex (H-34) are peak helicopter aesthetic to my mind.
>>489080514They aren't cuts, the money is being spent elsewhere in defence. Contested beach landings are dead in peer warfare, over the horizon helicopter assault remains. There are new littoral combat ships coming. This is just clearing out old shit to accelerate new stuff.
>>489080515Yeah, me
>>489080514Oh, it’s much worse than thathttps://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/12834/pdf/The actual state of the Challenger 2, NLAW, Starstreak…UK can’t even field a full division.
>>489080515In Parliament, and occupying London and Birmingham.
>>489080514The sealift was the only useful thing, the Pumas were EOL and Chinooks might as well already be scrap. Like OP says that is their entire capability slice in that area evaporated its a serious loss.
>>489081765>James Heappey: We have a division’s worth... I do not recognise that we cannot deploy a divisionbecause we have done on a number of occasions.uhh chuddie?
>>489080562>>489080527I cannot wait for these crusty Zionist brownlove Boomers to die off. The native youth is disgusted with this entire situation. Politics is going to the right, and riots riots riots when the controlled opposition (like that Apefrican "toilet noises" Badenoch) Tory try to "moderate" it.
what do navies do with old ships? turn them into museums? scrap metal?
>>489080514Gift them to Philistinas
>>489082424Only if you ignore the RFA, which most do because they're too retarded to look.
>>489083043Which was supported by the comment “Well, we did it in 2003.”You’ve got enough tanks for two regiments. Two. That’s it. 157 Challengers that *might* be deployable given a 30 day notice.
>>489083970Depends on the boat, but the options are generally scrap, mothball and then scrap, sell off/gift to the thirdies, sinking as part of an exercise, or sinking as an artificial reef. New museum ships are very rare these days, and it's not a viable option for most navies outside of the USN, and even they don't offer up much.
>>489084670They went from 5 to three. 6 replacements are "expected". Also the navy seems to be entirely out of amphibious warfare apart from manning guns on RFA vessels. Which is a bad look.
>>489087996Which is a decrease in capability, but far from the "entire" capability. Contested landings versus a peer foe is beyond meme worthy in the modern age.
>>489088708Russia had a landing force bound for Odessa that ended up turning around during the first few days of Ukraine, and they did a number of smaller landings in the sea of Azov, so it's not completely off the table, even if it still is a bit of a meme.
>>489080542MOMMY NO!
