With increasing interest in our kinds of politics from the political left we should have a place to discuss the progressive economics of Fascism which guide the nation beyond obsolete capitalism.What you find is that is that a lot of what you already agree is on the agenda. Discussion is welcome including from Reactionaries trying to uphold the previous order, and from Communists who will screech about how it doesn't fit into their perfect vision of what theoretical socialism is supposed to be. Criticism is welcome as long as you are going to criticize what Fascist Economics actually are instead of creating an alternative version in your head to dismiss without discussion.For a primer just read the Fascist Manifesto to get an idea of what Fascists were trying to achieve, though Fascism was largely developed on the fly so it evolved further as time went on.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_ManifestoDiscussion on Falangist, Integralist, Social Credit, Huey Longism, and National Socialist economics is welcome too, and even the economics of Actually Existing Socialist states like China too given that since we are in good company we can drop the act and acknowledge that its just Fascism with better PR.Previous Thread>>518556305
There are no benefits to self identifying as a "fascist" or strictly adhering to the example set by the Italians under Mussolini.
>>518571830The benefits of Fascism are implementing the correct policies
>>518572420You can support right wing authoritarianism without calling yourself a "fascist". Most people have negative associations with that term and you're not going to be able to change that. And why are you so confident that the fascists of the 20th century got everything correct?
>>518572949I don't support right-wing authoritarianism. I support Fascism.
>>518572996LOL. Great thread anon.
>>518573127This, but unironically
Fascist economics is rather milquetoaste, a free market handles the nuts and bolts while the state intervenes to remove speculators and build autobahns. A huge problem is corruption, so it helps to have someone as devoted as der Führer at the top, but in lieu of this I do not know the solution to such a perennial problem except to warn fascists to avoid the same self-justification as other ideologies, like that of the Soviets and their planned economy. There needs to be established early and enforced a system that curbs excesses, a free market already does so to a degree I guess.
>>518571830>>518572949sus memeflag, but you have a point, it is quite possible to argue for de facto fascist solutions without calling it fascist, since they are inherently reasonable and logical they can chug along on their own strength
>>518573377Why would you willingly support centralized power? Are you a masochist?
>>518571293Mussolini was a Maexist. Maybe start by reading some political economy.https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1847/12/31.htm
>>518573946Power is already centralized in "asset managers". The state taking over BlackRock wouldn't change anything fundamental but it could put all that to productive use.
>>518576511BlackRock is just a "private" cutout for corporatocracy and government sanctioned mergers ans acquisitions... so you think if they just came out and ended the pageantry, all of the sudden it would become productive and support the uplifting of the masses? Ha.
>>518576806Yes, I think that if the profits from the mergers and acquisitions went to the state allowing it to fund itself in lieu of taxes instead of going to shareholders I think it would be beneficial
>>518578061>in lieu of taxes>he actuaactuallylly thinks taxes are for funding the governmentLOL. Oh sweet summer child...
>>518578696Yes I know what MMT is I wrote about it in the other thread. The logic of taxes controlling inflation means if you have government run industries you don't need taxes because the government doesn't need to print money as it instead just circulates in the State Industries.
>>518574277Gramsci's speech to the Italian parliament (of Fascists) is interesting as a confrontation between Communists and Fascists if you were ever curious as to what they would say to each other if they weren't obsessed with just "bashing the fash" mindlessly while neither of us have any political power, thereby making the entire conflict irrelevant
>>518581436https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1925/05/speech.htm
Neoliberals won. We're living in the world of their design. The world of nationalists where world doesn't revolve around business interests but the interests of the nations and their peoples doesn't exist. We're barreling into the world of neo-feudalism.How could fascists do to reverse course, or do they event want to?
>>518581750Get left-wingers on our side by explaining to them that Fascism is actually the thing they want and that all the icky nationalism they hate is just the stuff that is necessary to make it work.
>>518579314Communism? Wouldn’t government run industries result in lower productivity thus result in drop in standard of living?
>>518581912>Get left-wingers on our side by explaining to them that Fascism is actually the thing they want and that all the icky nationalism they hate is just the stuff that is necessary to make it work.They already know.
Usury and Jewish systems, do not work in a purely nationalist environment. Germany said fuck you to that system, which is literally why they declared war on germany, and got america and england to cuck for kikes. modern europe and america is absolutely fucked ethnically as a direct result of this shit.
>>518583512Not a real quote.
>>518583653Of course it's real.
>>518583826It's not. And by definition fascism is right wing.
>>518571293Is that supposed to be Evola or Mussolini?>>518573616lel you sound like a real bootlicking germaboo faggot. If they had any sense they'd have levelled this floating mercantile shitheap with you in it.
>>518583334Not necessarily, it could also result in Sorcerer's Apprentice levels of production of things no one actually wants except for the people whose job it is to produce these things
>>518583883>by definition fascism is right wing.LMAOHEROOOOOOOOOOOOW GLOWIE!
>>518583334Productivity is more than necessary at this point in time. Our issue is figuring out how to maintain an economy with a declining population, that means prioritizing certain things and letting what is unnecessary fall t the wayside. If you let Gramsci the Communist explain, due to Italians migrating out of Italy even before WW1, Italy had a high dependency ratio with large numbers of old people relative to young people even in the 1920s.Currently we our "leaders" bring in a bunch of immigrants which is because the financial power here is more powerful than in other countries, but contrary to fears of migrants overwhelming our countries, since every other country is also aging eventually the migrants will stop so we will have to figure out how to successfully prioritize certain things. Even before the foreign countries themselves start aging, the demograpgic transition of having a large workforce with a low dependency ratio due to having fewer children will make those places more attractive places for prospective migrants to stay, and on the flipside economic conditions here deteriorate the reason for migrants to come here will reduce. So we are likely actually on the cusp of the migrants starting to go back whether we want them to or not.Therefore Italy having already gone through this serves as a model. Italy didn't "economically collapse" instead they ended up in a massive world against the whole planet and they lost, Memes about them being bad at fighting are exaggerated but had they been better at fighting other countries the domestic "antifascists" wouldn't have been able to topple the regime because they were adequately handling things based on those particular conditions they had to deal with which are our current conditions. https://www.marxists.org/archive/gramsci/1925/05/speech.htm
>>518571293I don't like fascism. I just want libertarianism with some national socialist elements and a 100% pure white ethnostate nobody foreign allowed to mate with, marry, move into, or own anything in the country.
>>518584290>We have our own conception of imperialism and colonialism, according to which these are above all an export of finance capital. Until now Italian "imperialism” has consisted only of this: the Italian emigrant worker works for the profit of the capitalists of other countries, that is until now Italy has only been a means of expansion for non-Italian finance capital. You rinse your mouths with declarations of a claimed demographic superiority of Italy over other countries; you always say, for example, that Italy is demographically superior to France. This is a question which only statistics can finally resolve, and I sometimes deal with statistics; now a statistic published after the war, and never denied, and which can not be denied, states that pre-war Italy from the demographic point of view, was already in the same situation as France after the war; this is determined by the fact that emigration removes from the national territory such a mass of the male, economically active, population, that the demographic relations become catastrophic. In the national territory there remain the old, women, children, invalids, that is the inactive part of the population, which weighs on the population to a greater degree than in any other country, even France.>And this is the fundamental weakness of the Italian capitalist system, for which Italian capitalism is destined to disappear even more rapidly as the world capitalist system no longer manages to absorb Italian emigration, to exploit Italian labour, which our capitalism is incapable of organizing.You can ignore most of it, but this indicates that Italy was dealing with a dependency ratio problem. Gramsci thought that when other countries stopped taking Italian migrants that Italy would be forced into Communist revolution. Gramsci was wrong about Italy being incapable of colonizing, but in our time that isn't even relevant because we only have the dependency ratio problem, not excess population.
>>518583334Additionally the Great Depression occurred due to overproduction causing deflation. You make more stuff than people need so everyone ends up unemployed and can't but things so you need to make less stuff. Command economies allow you to just do things where productivity doesn't matter too much as it is really a question of employing people to do anything.This may seem contradictory s I have both said "not enough workers" (dependency ratio) and "too many workers" (deflation unemployment) but you must consider that all these wacky nonsense economics means that maximizing productivity means very little. Just giving stability so we can actually do stuff we need, and if we don't happen to do it in the most efficient way, who cares?Mainly the issue with Communism isn't Communist itself but that Communists are a bunch of insane people who want to kill everybody so Fascism is how you do Communism without the Communists.
>>518584333What do you mean by libertarianism? Do you have a strong opinion how industrial production is organized or do you just want to be able to do with your property exactly the stuff you want to do with it? The State can control production with State property while letting property owners do what they want with property the state doesn't own. Having some State Property doesn't mean private property couldn't exist in the space between the State Property. Like if you want a little self-sufficient commune there wouldn't be an issue with that, it is just that at the same time there is going to be State-Owned factories making important things.
>>518571293Fascism>fixes the money>abolished usury>retain private propertyCommunism>fixes the money>abolished usury>abolished private propertyIf we fix the money naturally we will go into fascism. I am for fixing the money. That is the problem, and argued by Gottfried Feder
>>518583883Fascism is third-positionist. We literally just don't give a shit about your "left/right" nonsense.
