At one point does it become garbage wrestling?
>>15827723GMS
Doing this stuff use to be shameful. What happened?
>>15827723Feels like Hanger should have been the one wearing the image of Swerves house on fire desu
>>15827723Usually when there's a WWE logo in the corner
>>15827723Bet you love this match tho
>>15827723Garbage wrestling usually starts on Wednesdays at 8 PM EST, Fridays at 10 PM EST and Saturdays at 6 PM EST but, sometimes they get preempted.
>>15827723When it becomes torture porn for men.
>>15827723that's not hardcorethis is
>>15827723It's a good question in theory but misses the even bigger question.Wrestling as a rule is always garbage and has always been garbage. Every once in a while, however, a couple or even a group of guys will get in there and elevate it above what it has traditionally been.At what point does wrestling *stop* being garbage?
>>15827901I love this match and OP match
>>15827958That's not hardcore This is
>>15827723I think at this point
>>15827901The fact that you can't tell the difference is why AEW is more your speed Fucking retard lmao
>>15828319WWF match almost killed a wrestler, while AEW match was 100% safe.
>>15828146Why did the ref do that?
>>15828401AI altered clip
>>15828146That was my favorite part of the whole matchLove my real sports feel pro-wrestling company, eat it e-fags
the feud escalated to a point that any other kind of match would have been stupid
>>15828034Based
>>15827723>At one point does it become garbage wrestling?in the mind of the boomer
>>15828514go back to the jerk
>>15827901that's the exact moment that killed wrestling
>>15828319What's the difference? Should be easy to explain if it's so obvious.
>>15828560Why, you goofies miss me there?
>>15828382AHAHAHHAHAHAAHHAHA
>>15828056Nah, the dude in >>15827958 fucking died. That's pretty hardcore.
>>15828673WWF Match: uses the cage as a weapon, uses the cage to inflict damage. The match was called “HELL IN A CELL” and yeah the definitely showed you hell in a cell.AEW: reeeeeeeeeeee weapons! SYRINGE! Honestly why is the fucking cage even there if they didn’t use it? The weapons, why are these the weapons chosen? There was no fuckin reason just “shock” what the fuck am I watching? An indie show? A mud show? Or a professional wrestling show?
>>15828740Aew used the cage multiple times retard. I hated the match and love laughing at aew but stop being a disingenuous bitch
>>15828762>AEW fan acting like he doesn’t care because he’s ashamed of itNo retard none of the planned main spots were with the cage. None of the shocking moment were with the cage. But what did I expect from a fucking bell-end who loves shit indie show levels of garbage like AEW
>>15828146is Logan Paull really the only nigga that can do that flip and stay upright? jeez louise
>>15827901Bro really went back twenty years and thought he was making an argument AEWtrannies really are something else
>>15827766It still is to the normal person. Show this to someone outside of the IWC and they are either going to be disgusted or laugh and talk about how fake it is. For something like this, most likley both.
>>15827723As soon as you hear “Then Now Forever Together”
>>15828908There are also going to be people who are going to find it entertaining.Wrestling was cringe back in the day as well. But cringe was in during the late 90s. People enjoyed pro-wrestling because it was stupid fun, not because it was "realistic". No one thought they were watching real fights, and WWF was faker than WCW anyway.People who want to watch "realistic" fights are going to watch MMA. People who watch wrestling just want to be entertained. It's okay to do shit that's over-the-top and fake, pro-wrestling was built on that. Hogan was the most over guy of all time until Steve Austin came around and no-selling was literally his fucking thing.
>>15828952There's almost always going to be a funnel into the IWC but the only type of people into this sort of wrestling are trailer park trash and beaners. The average person isn't going to be into this shit. Maybe like 3/10 people and 2 out of those 3 are future smarks while the last person is some hick liking something that reminds him of his home life.
>>15827723>an cinder blockHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>15828982I tend to agree. "Hardcore" matches have never really been my thing, even back in the 90s.I just think people focus a bit too much on realism. American wrestling has been at its best when it's been somewhat outlandish.Incidentally, I prefer Japanese wrestling which I think *does* tends to lean more towards realism than anything else right now. But that's what entertains me. I don't think it would entertain most people in the US.
>>15827723That's easy OP, if the promotion you're watching is AEW, GCW or XPW. It's fucking garbage top to bottom. The wrestlers, the promos, the angles, the matches, the fans. All fucking used diaper garbage.
>>15829028That Japanese style will just get the normal person saying that the moves are cool or they are going to trash it for being fake. My brother whose a pro MMA fighter loves to talk shit about wrestling. I decided to show him ZSB vs Danielson 2 and all he could talk about is how their BJJ moves looked like shit and that none of their submissions would ever work against a white belt in one of his classes. Look at any TKO promotional stuff and the UFC fans are moaning about how gay and fake wrestling is. Hardcore shit isn't helping and there's just some that can never like the Japanese and shoot style matches.
>>15829167Exactly, it's not for most.Fact is, pro-wrestling isn't for most. I personally openly admit to people that I love it *because* it's fake. It's a mode of storytelling and, at the end of the day, everyone is working together and the goal is that nobody gets seriously hurt. Doesn't always work out that way but it's the ultimate goal.Granting that, I have a high threshold when it comes to suspension of disbelief. My enjoyment revolves more around seeing interesting matches play out and, perhaps even more important, the whole meta-sport -- the booking, etc.I guess what I'm saying is that it has to be engaged on its own terms. At the end of the day, some people are going to shit on it regardless of how realistic it might actually look. And some people are going to enjoy it despite having never really encountered it previously.
>>15828319cope e tard
>>15828952>People enjoyed pro-wrestling because it was stupid fun, not because it was "realistic". No one thought they were watching real fightsPro wrestling went out of its way to make the fights look like credible battles between people who were genuinely hurting each other. Of course nobody thought they were watching a real combat sport but wrestling used to make people suspend their disbelief so they could get invested in it. Being scripted is no excuse for being blatantly fake.
15+ years of PG really has turned e-drones into pozzed Disney adults
>>15829203>pro-wrestling isn't for mostThat's a cope for modern wrestling being uncool and culturally irrelevant. Wrestling was for most back when it was good. It used to be the ultimate form of low brow populist entertainment.
>>15828901You have to go back over 25 years to find a WWE match with actual T>>15830197>modern wrestling being uncool and culturally irrelevant.#ThanksVince
>>15830196>15+ years of PG really has turned e-drones into pozzed Disney adultsYou're hallucinating again
>SHOOT injures his opponent doing a shitty crossbody off the top of the cagewhy come etard edrone pEdo piggiEs prefer unsafe shitters to fun hardcore wrestling done by professionals (no one ends up injured)??
>>15827723It had a year long blood feud attached to it. It needed to be violent.
>>15830199>#ThanksVinceTina Khanetty was given a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to make pro wrestling cool and relevant again and this is what he did with it
>>15828920underrated KEK
>>15830187To an extent. No one is arguing that wrestling ought to "throw realism out the window." Everyone wants it to look realistic to some degree.But there are different thoughts on what looks real. It's easy to say, "oh, you need more selling." Well, watch a real MMA fight. Know what they don't do a whole lot of? Selling when they can avoid it. You never want to show your opponent that you're hurt if you can avoid it.Guy gets suplexed off the top of the turnbuckle and gets right up? Well, guess what -- he really just took a suplex from the top of the turnbuckle. That shit hurts like a motherfucker. There's no need to "sell it" -- if he gets up, he's obviously doing so despite being in quite a bit of pain and that's bad ass. It's realistic because he actually took the move and is actually fighting through the pain to go on. Same goes with getting powerbombed on a fucking cinder block.A lot of the stuff AEW gets criticized for in terms of lack of realism is heavy nitpicking. People want selling as it existed pre-MMA but real fights don't actually look like that. People *do* take big moves and keep on going sometimes. That's why a lot of the psychology in wrestling has changed since MMA came onto the scene.I'm not saying AEW gets it perfect. But no company in the history of wrestling has ever gotten it perfect. Most wrestling boils down to two guys staging a fight. Usually it's going to be mediocre. Your average wrestler has a vague understanding of psychology; a strong understanding comes with experience playing to crowds. On occasion, the stars align and it turns out good or even great. It's this insistence that average wrestling live up to what the greats have done that jades people and prevents them from enjoying stuff that was otherwise pretty okay.Most wrestling sucks. If you only watch WWE you don't see it because everyone WWE hires in this day and age and puts on its main roster is a seasoned veteran to some extent.
>>15830212kek why does Dwayne look greenscreened in?>>15830234>bu-bu-but muh boogeyman!>>15830224reminder Cody did a far more dangerous version of this in AEW completely successfully
>>15830197>It used to be the ultimate form of low brow populist entertainment.Yes, but you actually hit on exactly what I was getting at.Low brow populist entertainment was cool back in the late 90s. Jerry Springer. Jackass. And in earlier times, people were more accepting of low brow entertainment.These days it's looked down upon. The problem is that pro-wrestling is low brow by nature; you can't make it respectable. Yet that's exactly what so many complaints seem to focus on - "we have to make it look realistic; we have to make sure angles are respectable."It's putting lipstick on a pig. Pro-wresting does best when it's itself, and pro-wrestling when it's itself is lowbrow. It's not "good", it's entertaining. Insofar as realism is necessary for keeping it entertaining, that's when realism is important. But hyper-focusing on realism can also make it less entertaining. It's the "fun" part that's important, the realism is just a means of getting there.
>>15830271>on a pig.kek
>>15830271Stuff like Jerry Springer was literally always looked down upon. Jackass a little less so depending on how old you were.
>>15830281Wrestling has always been looked down upon as well.It was never seen as anything "respectable", especially not in the 90s. It was cool because trashy stuff was "in" at the time.There is a reason many people who watched back then don't watch anymore. It's not because it's not "realistic" enough for them. It's because they look back on it as cringeworthy - cool at the time but something they outgrew. Sort of something they enjoyed ironically at the time.
>>15830240You do understand the point of selling, right? It's supposed to create the illusion that pro wrestlers are unbelievably strong and wrestling moves are devastatingly powerful. It adds to the spectacle. It should be presented as being above and beyond MMA or any normal fight between normal men. No-selling just cheapens it and brings it down unless it's done very carefully under the right circumstances by the right person like Hogan.
>>15830332I do understand the point of selling.But again, its value has to be reevaluated in light of the fact that we know what actual fights of the sort wrestling pretends to put on should look like.Pointless selling is every bit as unrealistic as no selling. And I say that as someone who considers proper selling a real art. In a real fight, you don't want to show your opponent you're in pain. You don't want to favor your sore arm so your opponent knows exactly where to attack. If you watch MMA you'll see few of the things you *want* to see wrestlers do, and MMA is an actual fight. You don't see it because, in a realistic fight, it's actually very dumb to do if you can avoid it.I don't want to downplay your complaint. There are rookies who absolutely do no-sell, and they should be corrected on it by whomever is running the matches. But a lot of what fans call out as no-selling isn't no-selling. Take Tomohiro Ishii -- he'll take a bunch of blows, not move, keep on going. Until the pain catches up to him and he collapses like he's dead. Turns out that's not "no selling" at all -- it's realistic. A lot of what is called out as no selling at that more experienced level is subtle like that.Again, showing pain in a fight between two experience fighters is a thing those fighters will try to avoid. In a wrestling match, they should show pain but it only makes sense if the pain is at a level where they obviously wouldn't be able to bear it. Yes, people kick out of finishers. It's because it's now understood that those types of finishers aren't necessarily enough to put someone down for the count in a real fight.It's not that there's no psychology, it's that the psychology has changed in the light of MMA.
>>15830332I've got to hit the sack but I appreciated the civil discussion. Rare around here but these occasions when it happens are what keep me visiting this board.
>>15830448Goodnight anon. Being civil on peedub feels wrong so I'm afraid I'll have to tell you to GO FUCK YOURSELF. Still appreciate it though kek
>>15830497kek, based.
>>15828401AEW is a comedy promotion focused of performing movez
>>15828737The irony it was the guy who threw the cinderblock who died, not the guy who got hit by it.
>>15830224That's on Solo. If you know, you know.You're supposed to hop into the air before you catch the cross body in order to flat back.If you catch them without jumping, you're gonna smack your head on the mat.
>>15827723October 2nd 2019
>>15831189>focused of performingGOOOOOD MORNING!
