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You're not getting tenure edition

Last thread: >>16159901

This thread exists to ask questions regarding careers associated to STEM.
>Discussion on academia-based career progression
>Discussion on penetrating industry from academia
>Or anything in relation to STEM employment or development within STEM academia!

Resources for protecting yourself from academic marxists:
>https://www.thefire.org/ (US)
>https://www.jccf.ca/ (Canada)

Information resource:
>https://sciencecareergeneral.neocities.org/
>*The Chad author is seeking additional input to diversify the content into containing all STEM fields. Said author regularly views these /scg/ threads.

No anons have answered your question? Perhaps try posting it here:
>https://academia.stackexchange.com/

An archive of all the previous editions of /scg/:
>https://warosu.org/sci/thread/15740454
>>
I got a real job. The postdoc hell will end. It's a research job in industry, in a small (but growing) company. Similar general area to what I did for my academic research (semiconductors/spectroscopy), but different materials etc. since industry and academia aren't exactly on the same page.

Time will tell if it's what I thought or if I am what the company thought, but at least I won't have to live with roommates as a 30 year old anymore. Not exactly well paid but whatever.
>>
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>day 136 of unemployment
Getting real tired of this shit.
>>
>>16177061
sucks anon. iktf. stayed sane by brushing up on industry skills—programming, stats, flirting
>>
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I am officially in the Aerospace Engineering Bsc program. What can I expect after I'm done?
>Working on big sexy rockets
>Hypersonic air vehicles
>Designing rocket engines with sexy turbo pumps
>Women dropping their panties after they figure out I'm an AE with a 6 fig salary
>Being a snobby dickhead to mere mechanical engineers
>>
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Am I dumb today or does the blue arrow have a value of zero?
>>
>>16177187
The blue arrow is literally "bioweapons research".
Yes, you are "dumb".
>>
>>16177185
>>Women dropping their panties after they figure out I'm an AE with a 6 fig salary
That's barely enough to keep up with hoeflation. Do better, anon.
>>
>>16177185
Weapons
>>
>>16177185
>Women
There are over four billion women on the planet, you might want to narrow down your expectations a bit.
>>
>>16177190
>bioweapons research
Bioweapons are retarded, so he's right
>>
Should I get an MBA or an MS?
Be honest.
>>
>>16177432
MBA is an easier path through life but you have to be ok with destroying others.
>>
>>16177031
>>16175598
For anyone wanting to reply
>>
>>16177185
You can expect to get brutally fucked by the market and work for your defense contractor of choice in a soulless grey box for 40 years.
>>
>>16177967
How unfun is working on weapons development?
>>
>>16177552
QC is related to quantum radar systems, which is a hot but classified field. It could cancel out all advances so far in stealth technology, turning the F-35 into a rather expensive flying cow.
>>
>>16177249
>so good they were banned
>>
>>16177031
F in the chat for the 3.05% that are no longer with us
>>
>6 months of unemployment
Getting a degree in Computer Science was a huge mistake
>>
>>16178176
They're permanently permanent research staff. Possibly undead.
>>
>>16178190
>Computer Science
>2024
Yikes. 10 years too late.
>>
Unemployed math PhD here. Should I try to get CCNA?
>>
>>16177185
gonna have to give blowjob to your gay boss every morning and he gonna rape your ass anytime he want othervise no carrier
>>
>>16178190
It seems the problem is not the degree but the degree holder.
>>
>>16178448
>hurr durr everyone is hiring it's your fault
>>
>>16178455
Just status quo liberal gaslighting.
There are no institutional or systematic problems (except the doublethink regarding the -isms)
We have developed the perfect political and economic system and reached the end of history. If it isn't working for you it's because you are a genetic failure/incel/loser/it's your fault.
>>
Any field technicians or field engineers here? Any of them willing to offer guidance and help?
>>
>>16177987
>ridiculous, if not absurd and impossible demands from management and clients
>endless paperwork for every little thing
>massively inflated costs for base components and materials
>the social stigma of being a warhead lethality engineer
>knowing that your job isn't to design weapons which kill precisely and effectively, your job is to make the weapons reliable and cheap
>minimum viable product is the only thing which will ship

All-in-all it's not a bad job if you can cope with the moral challenges. Many can't so choose to doublethink and only work on defensive systems or weapon-adjacent but not directly weapons. From an engineering and problem-solving perspective defence has some of the most interesting and limit-testing questions to solve and that's the big attraction for academics.
>>
>>16177190
Which is why he is not stupid, but "dumb", because he's right.
The vaccine is safe and effective and the 2020 US elections was totally legitimate.
>>
>>16178671
I forgot how vomit inducing the engineering world is
>>
>>16178671
I have no moral qualms with designing weapons but I can't go against my principles of designing things to the best of my ability. I guess I'll stick to making my own weapons.
>>
Got offered a graduate field engineer job with Weatherford. What's the general consensus on this company?
>>
Should I go back to school for a geology degree? I have a comp sci degree, just hate it.
>>
>>16179336
Don't Comp Sci majors have the highest employment rates and salaries compared to most STEM majors?
>>
>>16179953
Doubt.
Physicists and mathematicians going into big finance or management consultancies probably earn a lot more.
>>
>>16178584
I was a field engineer for a while. I didn't make it. Couldn't handle the shift work and got insanely jealous of the office guys.
>>
Anyone got a second msc after their phd? Realistically would it improve my job prospects?
>>
What's the most profitable field I can go into with a bio degree? I was thinking either bioprocess engineering or bioinformatics but I'm not sure.
I'm currently doing a masters and I really don't want to go into a phd program afterwards
>>
>>16180297
The biggest reason for unemployment isn't your credentials. It's obscurity. Getting an MSc will not fix the fact that no one knows who you are.
>>
>>16178584

What area? What do you want to know?

My degree is Mechanical Engineering Technology and pretty much every job I've had is mostly, if not all field work.
>>
>>16180297
Doing a second MSc after your PhD just screams "I fucked up and don't know what I'm doing" to me and probably most employers.

The only exception might be doing one on the side while working or to meet some very specific requirements to be an astronaut or some shit you planned since infancy.

But just doing it to keep treading water reeks of desperation. Even if your degree is truly useless there are jobs where "college degree" is just a box to check.
>>
What will get me a higher salary, MS or MBA.
Literally all I care about is making as much money as possible for as little work as possible.
>>
>>16180538
What if you're trying to flesh out your awareness of different fields for interdisciplinary research? E.g., PhD in ML and MSc in genomics to develop automated gene profiling and pattern analysis.
>>
>>16180778
Depends on how that takes place. If you were doing the MSc "on the side" after the PhD, while doing other work/research as your main thing, then sure. But going straight from PhD back to university for a lower degree full time isn't a normal thing to do.

Normally if you were interested in this kind of interdisciplinary research from the beginning, you would choose your research group/project in a way that allowed this. So you'd go to an ML group with a project related to genomics or vice versa, depending on your own background and the group expertise/collaborators etc. available. This kind of thing happens all the time.

It's not like a PhD in machine learning means "courses in machine learning for 4 years". It means "research projects in machine learning for 4 years", and those projects in the real world can easily be interdisciplinary. There shouldn't be any reason to do a Masters after a PhD, assuming you chose your PhD properly in the first place.
>>
>>16180812
I should add, if you realized after your PhD in ML that you wanted to apply this to genomics, you could also go and do a postdoc in a research group that does this kind of interdisciplinary research. It's usual and in fact healthy to add something new and unfamiliar to your research directions between your PhD and postdoc.
>>
>>16180812
>>16180822
Okay, noted. My main reason for asking is because (although I'm NTA from the first post) I'm trying to work my way through upper education for pay increases while doing research, without taking on debt. I have particular discipline-specific and interdisciplinary topics I'd like to research, but I'm woefully underqualified and too poor to conduct any at this time.

I thought that using tuition assistance programs through different employers to accrue credentials, improve income, and work towards my intended research projects would be best achieved through exploiting lateral and backwards shifts for qualifications. I should probably add that one of these research topics is meant to be conducted solitarily, and involves three weakly related fields (bioinformatics, ML, and QC - yes I'm the anon from >>16177552).
>>
>>16178022
Based on a cursory reading of literature, it seems that'll be relegated to auxiliary and first detection mechanisms.
>>
STEM degrees have become a battlefield and even the hope of a decent job requires good connections and a bit of nepotism or high in skill. Not to mention most companies outsource their work to Asian countries. A competition your doomed to fail were you to follow such a degree.
>>
So this is probably off topic, but hey if there's a better thread for it I can find it in three days after you know what happens.
I'm a layman, I have experience with social sciences but we all know that shit's fake. I have an interest in biology. How might I learn about it aside from college?
No, I'm not looking for marketable experience, just for my own enrichment.
>>
>>16180871
Youtube has tons of college lectures in biology
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ocw+biology
>>
Why the hell are graduate programs in other countries taught in English?
>>
>>16180871
Undergrad programs in the sciences generally follow some standard set of textbooks. The exact books vary, but the content less so, and usually there's "classics". You can almost certainly find the PDFs online for free, the physical books in any larger library or used books for $cheap. If you look at the syllabus/reading list of a college program you're interested in and self-study the books, you'll probably have a better understanding of the topic than most people who graduated as they generally just read the lecture notes.

>>16180896
Because their students are mainly from outside those countries and/or English is the language in which research in any field is published nowadays.
>>
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What STEM careers are have practical net-positive jobs?

Medical Doctors and their subfields are obvious ones. Who else?

Hard Mode: Find tech/computer science/ElectricalEng/Math jobs that fit this description.
>>
>>16180864
You can doomsay any profession anon.

Guess we should all go into the trades and become serfs with no influence until the gov't passes legislation that imports low-wage non-citizens to outsource that too.
>>
>>16180837
People disagree how/if it will work. China claims it works well, while the US (saddled with the F-35 propaganda) alleges great doubt.
A quantum radar is expected to improve the signal to noise ration, in that the receiver can be certain that a received echo is tied to the emitted one and is not a random event. The US claims this is still too noisy. The real truth, to the extent it even exists, is as classified as it can get.
>>
>>16179953
Job postings for programming jobs have declined by over 50% and are in a free fall. Despite laying off large numbers of employees, Amazon and other tech companies are pushing for a removal of the limit of work visas that can be issued each year. There are people with decades of experience putting in over 1000 applications and getting a less than 1% response rate.
Meanwhile companies are extending their hiring pipelines to have more and more stages, often taking over eight months from the time a job is posted until when the role is filled. Some companies never get anyone through the pipeline, screaming about the lack of suitable candidates while rejecting nearly everyone at various (usually early) stages of their hiring pipeline.
Even knowing someone inside the company no longer works, as many companies now require every application, regardless of quality, to first get past an external recruiter. You could be in the top 1% of your field and have a dozen people in the company who vouch for your work and still get rejected because a twenty-three old recruiter fresh out of college says she doesn't think you're "a good fit".
Acquihire is the only real way of making it now and even with that, about half of those who work for the company being acquired end up being laid off as part of the acquisition.
>>
>>16180902
Ironically, I'm just trying to write science fiction and fantasy, and I figure understanding how biology works is key for biotech.
Thanks, familial, I appreciate you.
>>
>>16181201
>China claims it works well
So do we have a source that doesn't lie more frequently than the US Government (who if they published a notice saying the sky was blue, I would look up to check)?
>>
>>16180134
Yeah but there isn't that many of those and the low salaries of the rest pulls the average down.
>>
>>16180134
>physicists and mathematicians going into finance
There can't be that many positions for that.
>>
>>16181360
>>16181367
It was mentioned in this general>>16181367
a while ago that 20 percent of them go into finance and into management consulting. It was not clear is those were one group or if it was 20 percent in finance and another 20 percent in management.
So yes, those are quite large numbers. A lot of macro economists are Physics graduates.
>>
>>16181517
What a waste of a good brain to study the confidence game known as economics.
>>
'Griggs v Duke Power' made it illegal to give job candidates IQ tests because minorities score lower on them. Businesses have been looking for IQ proxies ever since, which is why they started requiring college degrees. Over time the value of college degrees decayed as activists and the government pushed for everyone to be able to be a college degree because "it's the path to a good career".
As long as physics and math degrees remain difficult enough that only those with a high IQ can earn them, the finance industry will continue to be interested in hiring those graduates. They don't care if they don't have much experience in finance, that can be taught to them, they just need to know they are high IQ.
Eventually all degrees, including math and physics, will be degraded and the finance industry will need to find other ways to identify high IQ individuals without breaking the law.
>>
>>16181530
The big issue is that since resumes can be spammed out, too, they need more ways to filter out candidates. Problem is, they filter out so many.
>>
>>16181530
Perhaps aptitude certificates will be the way of the future: instead of universal field degrees, high-bar niche certifications will proliferate, and when paired with psychological profiling of individuals, they'll be used as a proxy not only for IQ, but skill aptitude as well. It's already becoming big in high-level corporate positions.
>>
>>16181530
>They don't care if they don't have much experience in finance, that can be taught to them, they just need to know they are high IQ.
Same with the management consulting industry (MBB especially) - they take on fresh graduates and train them in-house.
>>
>>16181526
It is all about money. I left academic research since it was too badly paid and I had some serious student loans to pay down. And consultancies pay really well.
>>
>>16181603
And those certification programs will be attacked through lawfare and government demands that they stop being racist for not certifying a proportional amount of minorities. Anything you can come up with, they will target, just like they targeted IQ tests and then college degrees. Even engineering and hard science degrees are being slowly destroyed in the name of equality. Treating symptoms won't help for very long as long as the underlying condition remains and grows.
>>
>>16181603
>>16181727
In the future, they might do offshore DNA analysis based on stealthily obtained samples, like the rim of the glass you were served water in.
>>
>>16181755
Or they'll do what they already do but to a higher degree: Just make it so easy to get fired in like the first year that you'll be out on your ass, white black or brown, with no legal defense if you so much as breathe wrong.
>>
>>16181701
What kind of consulting do you do? How is it? I considered scientific consulting but I'm probably too autismal even for that.
>>
>>16181797
I am a patent attorney, and for various complex reasons I also advice my clients on investments and company structuring. I am also brought in for presenting the IP status for annual board of director meetings, and have also been called in when a client wanted to hire a new CEO.

So first and foremost I am an IP consultant, but by extension I have to make sure that the IP strategy truly supports the business strategy.
>>
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>>16177031
Made it into civil engineering, boys. Never did a calculation again when I got actual responsibilities. Still get to berate people who actually make calculations though.
>>
>>16181806
Civil seems fun, especially traffic. Maybe it's my networking autism going haywire. Haha car go brrr
>>
>>16181847
I work in newbuild offshore projects. The projects in execution are amazing, but the bigger the project the more boring paperwork you have to do upfront. Also the more paperwork you have to do, the less creative freedom you have to design something interesting and innovative.

It makes sense though, the bigger the project, the bigger the risks. And the bigger the risks, the less improvisation is allowed.
>>
>>16177031
Sort of in a dead end position at this point as an engineering major. Was thinking of trying to find a more tangible engineering job, but I have an opportunity to move up to a manager role. Thought it'd be a great thing for my resume to at least give a shot, and it'd be a 20% bump in my pay at a bare minimum (I was gonna gun for 25% potentially).

Should I take it? Or should I use my downtime to just study for an even better job?
>>
Do you think AI will replace engineers (mechanic, electric, chemic and etc)? If yes, when do you think it will happen? Justify your answer with some example in your area of expertise.
Help a lost undergrad out, please...
>>
>>16181530
Companies wanted a better educated workforce. They got it. Now they're mad.
>>
>>16182035
Lol no, AI is a fad. At best it will be just used as a tool to help engineers. Stop worrying about fad shit and get to grinding.
>>
>>16182097
>Lol no, AI is a fad.
Heh heh... yeah.
>>
>>16182035
AI can't go out into the field, assess, and implement. The second AI makes a mistake that costs a life and it becomes legal precedent that a company is fully liable for the actions of AI, it'll be too cost prohibitive.
>>
No. Still need a human connection just in case something goes wrong. Otherwise company would be liable. You will probably still see a reduction in workers though since AI does help speed up repetitive or well-established processes. It still has trouble creating novel solutions so creativity and ingenuity will still be much needed, even moreso in the future. I work in IT and data engineering and I use AI every day and it still isn't enough for the amount of work I have to do. I also use chatgpt4o as well. It still, to me, has a long way to go before completely replacing roles. Mangement is looking to cut costs and are jumping the gun with this AI hype. Best to get into the industry now and make connections.
>>
>>16182282
That and customers are going to have doubts about AI, especially the current gen of AI, for at least a couple of decades.
>>
>>16180864
You don't need to be born into connections, develop them organically while you're at uni/between internships/undergrad research positions/design teams/other clubs/etc.

>high in skill
Yeah I should very well hope so wtf...
>>
>>16181806
>>16181901
How do you like the pay/salary progression?
>>
>>16178168
Best bioweapons are the legal ones
>>
>>16177031
I don't want to be a multi-degree holder without a job like you guys, I'll go brush my project portfolio up and I advise you to do the same
>>
>>16182674
Be prepared, nonetheless, to enter a job outside of your field, especially if you work in government.
>>
>>16182680
Grim but sensible, thanks for the heads-up
>>
>>16181517
There are various roles in finance that aren't that glamorous or well remunerated.
>>
>>16182697
But many positions are secure enough. Obviously not everyone can live in Beverly Hills or a Manhatten Penthouse, but you should not aspire to such things anyway.
What is the point of spending many times a reasonable cost of living on things that do not matter?
>>
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>>16177061
>444 days since I left my last job
Come at me bro.
Admittedly I wasn't looking for the first 2-3 months but god. At this stage I've applied at every company in my city that hires scientists.
The only time I ever get contacted are for basic bitch lab tech roles that don't pay enough for it to be worth leaving my house for.
>>
>>16182035
Partially. There will be 3 kinds of companies.
1: those who bring AI in on decisions. That will fail since AI still lacks common sense
2: those who use AI for partial automaton, boilerplate stuff and other efficiency improvements. They will get more billable work done than the others and will succeed, probably hire a few more people.
3: companies who think AI is a fad. These companies will go under and far from all of their emplyees will find new jobs. This is where the net losses willl happen
>>
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>2 years of teaching university
>math phd with 6 publications
>2 years of software development experience
>Code on github
>New haircut
>Autism minimized
What am i missing here?
>>
>>16182846
Not getting a gigastupid theoretical phd without practical applications.
>>
>>16182700
>in my city
Maybe look at a larger area
>>
I got rejected by the patent companies that I wanted to get into here in Europe, it's too bad that these are trainee positions and I'm getting absolutely destroyed here wasting time trying to get into my field of choice by going horizontally instead of vertically.
At this rate I'll be making 60k forever instead of the 100k I could make by staying in the shitty field that I hate
>>
>>16182860
>without practical applications
Leavitt path algebras are actually getting more and more popular
>>
>>16177187
I get what you mean confused me too for a bit when I went back to look at it, I think the 26.5 % isn't for the left-split wide one but for the both of them before splitting.
>>
>>16182871
Do you even know how to programme you dumb autist?
>>
>>16182884
Yes, uwu
>>
>>16182886
How have you been unemployed for 140 days then? It's like you are institutionalized and have no clue about the world outside of academia and now when they kicked you out, you have no idea how to earn the green.
>>
>>16181800
remember when you told me to apply to a few companies well I did it and got rejected >>16182867
not rejected from all of them but it looks like this is going to be another year where I get rejected from all of the patent companies
>>
>>16182888
OwO. They say i have too little experience .
>>
>>16182899
You should unironically seek help by a professional recruiter. You have no idea what you are doing.
>>
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What are unironically my options at this point?

(i) "just keep applying" (tm) and hope i get a software development job or adjunct professor position for the autumn
(ii) get another m.sc. in data science
(iii) complete my high school teaching certificate
>>
>>16182928
Depends on how fast you want to get into gainful employment. Because looking at your replies here >>16182899 and here >>16182886 you come off as not very smart för a math phd.
>>
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>>16182030
Please tell me what to do. I work from home, and I'd still be a WFH manager I believe. I don't really do anything related to my degree which I find to be a real problem, but a year or so of management is a good thing to get on a resume in any regard, right?
>>
>>16182846
>What am i missing here?
Self confidence, I would guess. You seem eminently employable to me.
>>
>>16182892
Yes, I remember. And I read your CV and could not see any reason to reject you.
Have you considered working for PRV or EPO?
>>
Does learning other languages actually bring better prospects? Specifically East Asian ones, I'm wondering because I know Japanese, am going through Chinese now, and will probably go for Korean eventually even if as just a hobby. From birth all the way up until now I've always been told that those who know these languages can easily find a job and rake in money, but I've never really seen any actual examples, such as some lucrative job offer or some random ITfag working in China or whatever and living the easy life.
>>
>>16182878
That probably was the intent but in that case, we don't know the value for either of the arrows after the split, which isn't a big deal, we can see the general proportions but still mildly disappointing that the values aren't there.
>>
Hard times:
>America’s class of 2024 graduates into an uncertain job market
https://archive.is/B6qBA
>The National Association of Colleges and Employers projects US employers will cut their hiring of freshly-minted graduates by 5.8 per cent this year compared to 2023. That would be the largest drop in hiring since NACE began surveying employers in 2015.
>Meanwhile, the unemployment rate for graduates aged 20 to 24 with bachelor’s degrees rose from 4.2 per cent to 5 per cent in the year to April, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
>>
>>16182965
It can act as a force multiplier if you are sociable enough and you choose languages that are not useless in your job market. For a korean, Jap would be good to learn, just as chinese. For a Finnish person, jap would be completely useless since it's not widely used in the job market. However, German is widely used in the finnish job market as a second trade language compared for instance english.
>>
>>16182955
if you work for PRV or EPO do you become an attorney or do you just become a permanent government worker?
I hate working at the government. I want the private sector
>>
>>16182969
In case people are interested, the original document the graph is from can be found in the link below. The PDF is a bit too large for a 4chan attachment. It's a Royal Society report from 2010, so obviously quite a bit has changed in the UK specifically since then.

https://royalsociety.org/-/media/policy/publications/2010/4294970126.pdf
>>
>>16182938
I want to set up a viable career path. I dont need income in the short term. 2 years without income is ok.
>>
>>16182965
In my experience Japanese is genuinely useless both in the workplace and for making friends with expats. They're just too reserved, no useful research is published in Japanese and Japanese companies have English speaking employees for dealing with foreign customers.
>>
>>16183023
Get a one year degree for career switch. Blame it on you didn't want to do math anymore as a career. Or you could just apply abroad if you want to work right away. Honestly from what I've seen in this thread you just seem lazy and lack drive. Employers are extremely good at sniffing that out.
>>
>>16182983
Most college graduates are GenZ and typically vote Democrat and so voted their way into this mess.
>>
>>16182846
Are you trying to get a woman? Just go to the local church or mosque.
>>
>>16183057
>Or you could just apply abroad if you want to work right away.
Are you saying i should apply for software development jobs abroad?
>lazy and lack drive
Guilty as charged. I lack direction.
>>
>>16183151
No, you should apply for teaching jobs which require a phd in Mathematics in Germany, France, Italy, hell even eastern europe.
>>
>>16182035
The engineering AI is already present. (Since 2013)
Its called Grashopper. (Not an LLM, surprise!) It still needs the dependency ratios, and other parameters, so it requires more abstract models. But when the model is ready (eg. Fractional distillery) it can design distilleries at any scale.
If you have a grashopper model for a stuff, it can implement it flexibly.
>>
>>16182992
>if you work for PRV or EPO do you become an attorney or do you just become a permanent government worker?
No. You become an Examiner. If you work at EPO as an Examiner, you can sit the EQE and thereby qualify as an European patent attorney, which will be well paid in industry (in-house in large companies or as an independent patent attorney in a patent law firsm)
>I hate working at the government. I want the private sector
Just now, my friend, you need a job. From these jobs you can pivot into private practice. About half of the patent attorneys in most countries are former Examiners.
>>
>>16183028
In my experience, having worked in Japan, is that Japanese women are less reserved than men. Also a few friends of mine who learned English well after getting science degrees, got nice positions in the foreign office. Theyare now working in the Far East.
>>
>>16183355
what about the prv?
I just applied to prv positions, I wonder if they'll take me
>>
>>16183457
People's Republic of Vietnam?
>>
Would starting an optoelectronics PhD be advisable? Research area might be broadly in perovskites/solar cell devices, is that promising/good for jobs after the PhD? Department would be Electrical Engineering.
>>
>>16183727
There's worse things to do a PhD on, but don't assume that there will be an industry job for you just because your topic is nominally in an applied field. I did my PhD in an optoelectronics group and the most common destinations are academia (at least for a postdoc, most eventually filter out), followed by consultancy, followed by random software-type jobs, and a wide mixture of things beyond that. For my PhD cohort the most common destination was civil service, for whatever reason, but that was a small sample size.

The proportion of people who got a job which had anything to do with their research was depressingly small. Even the people who went on to industry jobs usually changed their area of expertise more or less drastically. And that generally means you have a harder time convincing employers you're the right man for the job.

I don't think there is as of yet a very large industry around perovskites. There's a lot of interest for sure, and I'm aware of some startup-type endeavors, but my understanding is that the materials aren't really there yet. Meanwhile it's been one of the hottest research topics for like a decade now, so there's a lot of people out there who know their way around a perovskite.

I've been more on the fundamental science side of this, so maybe a device focused project from an engineering department will be less cursed.
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>>16182698
Hey asshole you were the one bringing up finance like I should sucking these guys cocks or something
>>
>>16183457
PRV is good, has at least once been voted great place to work.

>>16183513
PRV is the Swedish patent office - see prv.se for more.
>>
>>16183727
I agree with >>16183798 but would also add that your project also involves some solid state physics which is also good for industry job prospects. I don't follow the field closely but still got the impression that there is a lot of activity in the perovskite approach to solar cells.
>>
>>16184102
Not me, bro.
I think finance is a shit position that burns people out at best, and at worst strings people along with the promise of getting to a higher field while someone else profits off of your work.
>>
>>16184193
but do they let you sit the EQE eventually or something?
>>
>>16182865
I can't move at the moment. I'm studying part-time, raising a guide dog puppy, and my wife's job is here.
>>
>>16184346
>>16182865
It's also the largest city in my country with the most jobs, so even when I have expanded my search in the past it didn't actually add many options. Only one came back but they offered 20% less than competitive and no relocation costs. I laughed them out of the room.
>>
>>16184313
No. To sit the EQE you have to fulfill certain criteria. Part of those is that you have to work under someone who already is an European patent attorney or at the EPO for a certain period before you can start the process. That is now rather complex and starts with a pre-exam.
>>
>>16184352
then working at the prv would be a waste of time?
I have a job already, I only want to move to my favorite career, not stay here.
>>
I've been working as a lab monkey with a BS for 5 years now and have been toying with idea applying to med school. I just feel very bored and this is definitely not something I want to do my whole life. I've been out of school for over 5 years and have zero connections. I was thinking about doing a 1 year online non thesis masters course that is essentially med school prep. Is this a good idea? I would try and build relationships to deal with stuff like rec letters and refresh a lot of knowledge before taking the MCAT. The masters degree is not something I care about and is just a means to an end, so its through the cheapest in state university I could find.
>>
I'm going to get by bachelors in engineering soon and would like the advice of fellow anons on what branch of engineering has most scope of advancement.
The options before me are:
Electronics and Communication Engineering
Electical and Computer Science Engineering
Electronics Engineering(VLSI Design and Technology)
>>
>>16184480
>then working at the prv would be a waste of time?
Not really. It is well paid I hear, and offers a transition into patent law firms. At PRV you will learn about the European Patent Convention (EPC) which is binding also for Sweden and will help you when you start studying for EQE.
>>
>>16184642
>and offers a transition into patent law firms
how does this happen?
>>
>>16177031
>You're not getting tenure edition
Do people even get tenure anymore?
>>
>>16184615
thank you saar

if you will be having the autism then i refer you to electronics engineering thankfully
>>
>>16184720
About 50 percent of patent attorneys are former Examiners in many countries. Another 50 percent comes from industry. And perhaps one percent fomr straight from university with no industrial experience.
>>
>>16184615
All of those are great choices that can give you a good job. From my limited experience, VLSI design is a good fit if you want to start your own company, make something great and then cash out by acquisition or IPO. As a cofounder you will start in an advanced position, the real value of it comes only with commercial recognition. Anyone can call themselves a CEO, but few are on the level of Nvidia, Qualcomm etc.
>>
>>16180227
>>16180476
I'm working on product identification and coders technology. A fancy way of saying printers that put expiration dates on products.

I love the job and was able to get rid of my personal car, don't have to pay for gas, make about 70k plus bonus. It's comfy as hell, but I'm wondering where it goes from here? I am sure with the car I'm close to 80-85k annually. How do you go past the salary ceiling? What fields should I be looking at in the next ten years? Should I worry about over specialization?

Thanks
>>
>>16185149
By the way I should mention what I have in mind:
I'm thinking automation engineer or project management. I can get my network+ and perhaps an automation cert, and even go into consulting in the next 10-20 years. I am open to world travel, would be a perk for me.
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>>16184866
by industry you mean people who got into firms by applying right out of college right?
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How do I secure scholarships spare for having good grades? My school's clubs aren't really interesting and I'm prioritizing personal projects. My money for school is running out soon. I'm an EE major is that's relevant
>>
>tfw still unemployed
>>
How I'm suppose to move up?
>>
Went for the machine learning meme, and I'm now doing a PhD in EE right after my bachelor's, with a research assistant scholarship. Not sure how relevant my research project and classes are gonna be for my future job, and what company would even hire me after graduation since I come from M.eng. Studying in the US, any tips?
>>
>>16185438
Work in a startup/firm with few people, get experience, then apply to a big company with X years of experience then get the big bucks.

If you're within a big company, you'll usually follow their pay progression which won't be amazing
>>
>>16185550
>Work in a startup/firm with few people
Ok now answer again this time without assuming I live in California
>>
>>16185160
No. I meant college graduates who go to industry and then go to the patent profession.
>>
>>16185298
internships pay well in engineering
>>
>>16185640
The startup scene isn't too shabby in UK, Germany or Sweden. California is not the centre of the universe.

Moving up, do you have management positions in mind? Moving jobs is one way to progress while remaining in tech.
>>
>>16185640
There are firms anywhere, any engineering company with less than 100 people (which almost all startups also are) is a firm in my mind. Small consultants, subcontractors, local manufacturers, etc. You're retarded if you think California only has these kinda companies, if anything they have less of them since FAG are there
>>
wow didn't expect this to be on page 10 with only 161 posts
>>
>>16187294
it's the time of year where everyone has either got a job or roped

i'm somewhere in between
>>
>>16185298
I don't know how it is for your school, but at mine, there was a portal that listed every single scholarship available. None of them are just for "good grades", there's always some sort of angle like "second generation lesbian middle eastern veterans studying biochemical engineering with the intent of going to graduate school". The thing is, you don't necessarily need to match the criteria, because more often then not they'll have few or no applicants. Just shit out an essay for the questions they ask and shoot off an application to as many as possible, you'd be surprised what you get back. They will ask for some sort of thank you letter or whatever if you do win a scholarship, just don't reply, or bullshit it further and don't include a photo of yourself. Long gone are the days where simply having a good GPA paid for your tuition, unfortunately.
>>
>>16184878
I've heard there's very high cost of development for vlsi design. Is this true? and what do I do to keep up?
Also, would choosing a general branch like electronics and communication engineering be better than specialising?
>>
>>16187309
Seconding this.

Where these are posted probably varies a lot, but my country used to have a bunch of random trusts and whatever that would more or less give your money if you made a reasonable request for it, because nobody knew they existed and they had obligations to fulfill their stated purpose to give people money. There was this ancient database which had almost all of them, I think they modernized and pooled together recently. Point being, many of these were entirely external to the university (and in fact I went to university in a different country).

I got tens of thousands out of these things during my undergrad and a fully funded PhD (on top of an existing studentship). Really made a big difference at the time. And it's absolutely like anon said, even if you don't fulfill the criteria just apply.
>>
>>16177432
If you are a good technical guy and don’t want to manage people, get the MS. If you want be a manager and completely disconnect from the technical side, MBA
>>
>>16182939
If you go management you’ll never go back to the engineering side of the house forever.
>>
>>16182965
If you can read and speak Japanese fluently, the US semiconductor industry calls your name.
>>
>>16187294
Slow day. Use it to read about the future of work:
https://archive.is/nOzfY
As usual, /sci/ wil make it!
>>
>>16187386
I'm glad I'm self-taught.

私はときどき日本語話せます。
>>
>>16181285
Considering F-35 is one of the costlies military acquisitions in history and that it involves a lot of politics, porkbarrels and careers, you will struggle to find reliable information. Among the least dubious sources is "Aviation Week and Space Technology" and they have some coverage of the issue.
>>
>>16187316
Not from VLSI, but I heard the same for jet engines, having at least a decade of development leadup and so much costs it can bankrupt even the big companies if they don't secure clients beforehands. Practically, there's not that much repercussion on the workers, but all their R&D resources up to how they do rough estimates before starting a project are closely guarded. Good luck getting a comprehensive tutorial on Ansys 2020 cause all the companies keep their tools to themselves.
>>
>>16187294
This general died when I stopped shit posting. I used to keep it going with my bantz and pretending to be retarded. Put the team on my back just like in senior design. Now it’s just status strivers and that guy talking about how he’s a patent attorney every thread
>>
>>16187316
>I've heard there's very high cost of development for vlsi design. Is this true?
Not necessarily. You can do a lot cheaply, and test it on a FPGA, with super discounts for students. When and if you want to turn it into an ASIC, you can even do that for free under certain circumstances. You can get a lot of info on the /AIG/ general FAQ:
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki//aig/_Alternative_ISA_General#Making_your_own_ISA
Where things become expensive, is if you need tools for larger chips, advanced testing and verification software, timing closure, buying libraries and IP blocks (such as DDR or PCI interfaces), or setups for advanced nodes.
>and what do I do to keep up?
Keep up - with what?
>Also, would choosing a general branch like electronics and communication engineering be better than specialising?
Not sure but my impression is that things are becoming ever more specialised, though you need a wide general platform so that you can communicate with other specialists.
>>
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>>16177031
How do I make a literature review for my thesis?
I have my idea set and could write my literature review in a week, but my overseeing professor keeps asking me things like
>how will you gather info
>what cases will you be looking at
I don't understand: aren't those all for my thesis later on? Why bother mentioning such things in my literature review?
>ask your prof
Yeah, I will. Anyway, how did you guys write your thesis?
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>>16187421
>all genki vocab words
It's all volume 1 too.
>>
>>16188287
I didn't say I was good at it. Why don't you toss something my way you weeb?
>>
>>16187294
It’s finals season genius people are cramming and shit
>>
>>16188255
He’s asking you how you gather your sources and which ones you will use
>>
>>16188333
I usually browse ProQuest for information. Am I supposed to look for different sources (ex.: interviewing professors, analyzing specialists, readings works of field professionals) now that I'm writing a literature review for a thesis?
>>
>>16188287
クリスティーナちゃんとの中出しセックスは科学者として俺の権利だ
>>
>>16188371
Pervert.
>>
>>16188307
I can't. I'm still on chapter 4 of Genki. This summer, you and I finish volume I and start mining manga and VNs.
>>
>>16188843
Is that the lesser known Genki Monogatari?
>>
>>16188347
ProQuest should be enough I think the professor just wants to make sure you know which sources to use before making the literature review.
>>
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Getting a math PhD was a huge mistake.
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Is it just me who is still unemployed?
>>
>>16182965
If you're not a weeb Japanese is legitimately a pure waste of time.
I work in Japan and the engineers and researchers around me are either Indians or western losers back home. Everybody speaks English, and there are very few Japanese engineers, and those usually speak English anyway.
Japanese only becomes useful for getting laid or hooking up, otherwise, you will not make friends as people tend to stick to the social circles they built in university, so you'll end up with expats speaking English again.

Outside of Japan, nobody speaks it, and no good paper is ever written in Japanese. Japanese language schools are a glorified waste of time as well, male students sperg out and try and flirt with the female teachers, the women are mostly insane, and you're not learning much because everyone is just here for fun.
>>
>Day 144 of unemployment
Mom's gonna freak
>>
>great grandad was a crofter (subsistence farmer)
>grandad was a weld inspector
>dad is a programmer
>I am a scientist
>my son will be an astronaut
>my grandson will be the first king of Mars
It's all coming together
>>
>>16189688
Yes. Because you lack drive and have attained too much credentials above your level of "what should I use this for". You had no vision with your PhD and should have jumped off with a masters.
>>
>>16189700
>and there are very few Japanese engineers
What? Are you sure you really are in Japan? I worked at a Japanese national lab and not surprisingly the place was full of Japanese scientists and engineers.
>>
>>16189700
NTA but I was thinking of learning Japanese since most of the research in my area is being done in Japan, however my PI has huge ties with Germany also. Should I start learning German, then?



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