We live in a time of rapid travel and near-instant communication that has led to the rise of global self-propagating systems that compete with each other ruthlessly in the short-term with little regard for long-term consequences. As their influence grows, the consequences of their actions will cause increasingly disruptive ripples through the highly complex AND highly coupled system. This can eventually lead to a severe event or series of events that can cause the extinction of humanity and many forms of complex life. See Chapter 2 of Anti-tech Revolution: Why and How (wildernessfront.com/books) for a broader discussion.Some of you may think that the way out is "through" and standing by while it completes its self-inflicted destruction is an example of "not interrupting your enemy while they make a mistake", but the more we let the techno-industrial system integrate itself into our lives, the greater the consequences of its uprooting will be. We have no idea what the necessary measures of continuing this clown world might be. Our dependence on it right now for our food, water, safety, and shelter might grow to include things you might think ridiculous, maybe even air. We can't predict what the death throes will mean for us. It needs to end sooner rather than later.
>>16280770I don't disagree with you. It's plainly obvious to anyone who stops for 5min to think about it that modern technology is the common thread linking all the main perils that are facing us. All we get is a bunch of blather and doublespeak from those in poser about how this or that particular science or technology SHOULD be used. As if any kind of talk like that actually determines the long term course of history. It's a total joke.
>>16280770There is not single self-propagating system yet, but humans, being around. 95 IQ species, miht just be stupid enough to not refrain from inventing it.
>>16280782What do you mean? self-propagating systems abound in nature and society. A self propagating system is just any system that tends to promote its own survival and propagation. the most obvious example are biological organisms, and groups of organisms, but also bands of humans, nation-states, corporations, etc. etc. OP is suggesting that self-propagating systems are a fact of nature, and they compete against each other under natural selection. If you add increasingly powerful MEANS (technology) at the disposal of these self-propagating systems, the long term results to the biosphere are disastrous.
>>16280782Do not propagate...
This is also why attempts to "slow down technological progress" or mandate/control it are utterly useless. Organizations and political entities have no concern for how technology and industry is affecting our planet and human freedom. They are concerned about their own personal gain
>>16280815The whole accelerationism meme is terrible and gets mixed with anti-tech even though they are contradictory to each other. On one hand you have one PUSHING for more innovation and one that seeks to end it.
>>16280823exactly. It is so retarded to ay kaczynski and people who agree with him are "accelerationists." Their position is that if things are accelerated, then at a certain point there won't be anything left of the planet or humanity worth saving. They don't want to "accelerate" technological or economic growth, or this or that social process or whatever. They want to END IT ASAP, preferably by NOT accelerating things so that there is more of humanity and the biosphere left when things do collapse.
>>16280834"to say"
>>16280794Yes, and corporations or nation states are not technology. I said there isn’t a single tech yet that propagates along these lines. Corporations or organisations are ultimately harmless versions of self-replicators because they are still inherently bound to humans (at least until advanced AI arrives, but then we just looped back into the overall discussion)
>>16280843"ultimately harmless" you've got to be joking right? maybe you've never heard of tikopia or easter island. At any rate you don't need "self-replicator" machines to have an existential disaster for the planet, all you need is the current paradigm of ruthless competition for short-term survival coupled with ever increasing technological means for there to be a build-up of externalities leading to biosphere devastation. Your boogieman of the "self-replicating nanobots" or whatever you envision as an existential threat is just that, a boogieman, or, more precisely, a red herring. it's entirely reasonable that there is a process fundamental to technological growth itself withing a social and biosphere context that inevitably leads to collapse.
>>16280770>Our dependence on it right now for our food, water, safety, and shelter might grow to include things you might think ridiculous, maybe even air. The average wageslave is completely cucked by the system. Reliant on it for absolutely everything. No wonder depression is on the rise and self-esteem has plummeted. Almost no one is self-sufficient and if the system didn't exist to give them their needs for them they'd be hopeless to provide for themselves.
>>16280864this
>>16280770Deboonked by Robin Hansonhttps://www.overcomingbias.com/p/kaczynskis-collapse-theoryhtml>Kaczynski dismisses the possibility that world-spanning competitors might anticipate the possibility of large correlated disasters, and work to reduce their frequency and mitigate their harms. He says that competitors can’t afford to pay any cost to prepare for infrequent problems, as such costs hurt them in the short run. This seems crazy to me, as most of the large competing systems we know of do in fact pay a lot to prepare for rare disasters. Very few correlated disasters are big enough to threaten to completely destroy the whole world. The world has had global scale correlation for centuries, with the world economy growing enormously over that time. And yet we’ve never even seen a factor of two decline, while at least thirty factors of two would be required for a total collapse. And while it should be easy to test Kaczynski’s claim in small complex systems of competitors, I know of no supporting tests.
>>16280782>There is not single self-propagating system yetAre you retarded? Lifeforms in general are self-propagating systems.
>>16280770Fuck you primitivist! Get off the computer and go live in a homeless encampment if you hate tech so much. I'm gonna go work on nanotech so that our entire industrial base fits in a shoebox. Then there will be no way for you fuckers to stop it. ACCELERATE OR DIE!
>>16280770I see you are also a man of culture but there is no solution to this problem. Humans are ultra exploitative predators that destroy their environment and then die from starvation. The only people and culture that was not self-terminating was the Native American one but Europeans made sure to wipe them out because they were more psychopathic. This trend will continue until the biosphere is completely destroyed or subsumed into the techno-industrial complex. There is nothing anyone can do about it. The end has already been determined.
>>16280956This is a great idea. How far have you gotten along your planned trajectory?
>>16280942you have got to be kidding me. that non review review is absurd. he creates a silly straw man of Kaczynski's argument, and misses the main argument completely. "This seems crazy to me" that is basically his argument. And what is this nonsense about factors of decline??? In lamens terms Kaczynski's argument is simply that the process of competition inherent to self-propagating systems coupled with exponentially increasing means will create compounding externalities that gradually erode the biosphere. And we're seeing this happen. It doesn't rely on some catastrophe happen in the traditional sense. it's a gradual process of degradation leading to a world that is inhospitable. But what do you expect from a middling intellect compared to Kaczynski. Try again.
>>16281040this
>>16281040
>>16280942>Surely if we believed his theory a better solution would be to break the world into a dozen mostly isolated regions.What does this solve, and how would we implement it? The article is more or less incoherent. > And while it should be easy to test Kaczynski’s claim in small complex systems of competitors, I know of no supporting tests.What would this 'easy' test look like?
>>16280968The solution is the collapse of the system. It doesn't matter if the remaining humans would want to reindustrialize. It would necessarily be a long process anyway. At that point, the new anti-tech forces could collapse it all again. It's not hopeless.
>>16282985>it's good for human race to wipehopefuly there's smarter chimps than you running the show. any turning back can spell doom for human race. tech is good, the games we play are shit. we need to adjust the games not give up tech.
>>16282990Did you forget to wipe today? You reek of reddit.Any further steps 'forward' are more steps toward our demise or total enslavement. "Going back" is the only sustainable option for complex life, as it existed for most of our history.
>>16280974enough that'd if you really understood just how much progress has been made and what it really means, you'd want to start firebombing stuff. Lucky for you, much of the research has been progressing slowly because it's being done in a secure facility
>>16280942That's pure cope. Muh corps (or whatever) are turkeys.
>>16283034>larping
>>16282985>>16282990humans are a disease, a blight, and a cancer of the biosphere. i'm all for accelerating our extinction but it looks like Elon Musk and his friends are already on the case. there isn't much to do other than wait for the process to play itself out
>>16283049Lol no. The truth's so ridiculous, you're not gonna believe me anyway so I can just say it. People on the project hate it because badging in is a pain. They literally lost a good amount of progress when someone left because secure facility rules mean you nuke the fucking computer of someone who leaves.
>>16283104ok bro
>>16283022>Any further steps 'forward' are more steps toward our demise or total enslavement.nobody cares that much for you. you'll be free to retreat in the caves. a new form of humans will take over. you should be ok with your caves, you won't be bothered.you're only given attention because "they" need the work you can do. if that's not needed you become irrelevant and have the freedom to feed on rats in caves, as long as you don't cause trouble.
>>16283049
>>16280770You missed the "feudalism" out of techno-feudalism.
>>16283388
>>16283359How's that boot tasting these days? And how does that cock feel in your ass?
>>16283460I'm as meaningless as any other random human. I was just pointing out how it's going to play out.
>>16283465You have already shoved the technological dildo up your ass because like most humans you are a coward who worships and bows down to power and corruption. People like you deserve everything that's coming their way
>>16283553you don't know shit anon. you seem ideologically driven.you can opt-out of tech. hell, you might even be able to convince your peers. if you do that, you'll all get wiped by the people who won't give up tech.it's like you're completely unaware of basic game theory. how tf do you realistically expect it will work out for you? do explain in rational and reasonable terms. how tf does giving up tech works out for people who do? when others won't? how do you practically protect your ass?
>>16283359>new form of humanThis is the only other possibility aside from the annihilation of all complex forms of life. If you're OK with becoming something inhuman, then we simply have different values. However, this shitty ending is unlikely.>as long as you don't cause troubleAny human groups expressing any freedom or autonomy in the realm of the life-and-death matters of their lives will absolutely be fucked with. This is the demand: We need to bring dignity back to humanity. The techno-industrial system is a nagging bitch that wants to control every aspect of wild nature.
>>16283595you seem stuck on current human form. there's no dignity in pain and disease and death and shitting. and even if you disagree, you can at most for yourself.
>>16283629Blue is for scanningRed, abridgementYellow, prison/lesser hell.
>>16283559my goal is to accelerate humanity's extinction. using tech is the best way to do that. if you don't think tech is also an ideology then you are retarded
OP, seriously what do you have to worry about? AI's not going to turn you into paperclips in your lifetime. There are plenty of other sources of carbon AI can exploit before considering turning your carbon into paperclips.
>>16284296do a flip faggot
>>16280770That's a lot words to say "I'm scared of progress"
>>16284296It's already bad enough for us, and it's getting worse. This doesn't hinge on any sort of AI or any particular type of technology. I'm concerned with our ever-increasing subjugation.>>16284757Progress is terrible for our freedom, autonomy, and dignity. Scared is the wrong word.
>>16280770>pale egoless male conspiracist vs. womenly earthen child prowness
