>>16292571
I'm an insect rights activist. I refuse to eat larva butter.

>>16292571
Most research in a capitalist society is done to make money. Clearly these scientists have enough of a reason to believe they can create a butter alternative that is cheaper to produce than breeding and milking dairy cows. Any possible environmental benefits are a happy coincidence, but irrelevant when stacked up against the possibility of making rich people richer.

>>16292571
Isn't butter more efficient than bugs?

Mhhh.... Fleischkäse.

As a scientist you often ask yourself the question if you could, but never if you should.

>>16292571
>Why are scientists doing this?
Because they are paid by some ambitious people that got bullied in highschool. The ambitious people rose to power but they have abone to pick with society that bullied them in highschool, so now they want everybody to eat bugs.
But why are scientists constantly developing a way to eat bugs and not say, a better battery or a way to shrink the deserts? Who you think tells scientists what to work on?

>>16292678
>a way to shrink the deserts
Enhancing the atmosphere with CO2 shrinks deserts and other arid regions. Plants require less moisture to survive as atmospheric CO2 increases because the plants' stomata close more tightly the more CO2 is available in the air and plants lose moisture via the stomata as well. Adding CO2 to the atmosphere reduces transpiration and allows plants to survive on less moisture.

>>16292594
>making rich people richer.
this plus those rich people like to subject the other 98% to humiliation rituals

>>16292628
>Isn't butter more efficient than bugs?
Fuckno. Bugs are theoretically about as efficient as chickens if you can scale production (which is an unresolved issue, but I digress), cows are like 1/4th as efficient as that for meat, and milk is even less efficient than meat because cows need to be pregnant to produce it and can only do so for a limited number of pregnancies.

That said, this is dumb as fuck because olives can replace butter.

>>16292678
>Because they are paid by some ambitious people that got bullied in highschool. The ambitious people rose to power but they have abone to pick with society that bullied them in highschool, so now they want everybody to eat bugs.
Based if true lmao

>>16292571
I thought insects were full of this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helicobacter_pylori

>>16292571
It's a way to humiliate and degrade the public, because this isn't about progress or science. it's about making the public more malleable by breaking their will/spirit.

>>16292713
>because olives can replace butter.
enjoy cancer

What a shame to be a scientist these days

>>16292571
>Butter-like material
It is fats and waxes.

But yeah, a dairy cow that eats alfalfa grass and drinks water is somehow causing global warming.

>>16292594
It isn't cheaper. It is significantly more expensive. Insect ranching is very intensive.

>>16292713
>Insect theoretical is worse than chicken actual
>Insects require much more post processing and have lots of waste chitin and other ash for very little protein or fat
Your measures of efficiency are bad anyways. Potable water is free and insects eat refined grain, not grass.

>>16292867
Yeah, cows being able to break cellulose lets them not only eat pasture grass but all sorts of left over leaves and stalks and whatnot from other agricultural production. Consider ethanol production for example; about 40% of the US corn grain crop gets turned ethanol. Now ethanol plants are only turning the sugars and starches in the kernels into ethanol; everything else, corn stalks, leaves, cobs, kernel husks, are leftovers from this and are things cows like to eat. Neither bugs nor chickens are useful for consuming those leftovers.

>>16292823
how does replacing butter with olives cause cancer?

Here's a well researched video from LAP about how eating bugs is not more green than eating animals, nor is it healthier, nor is it more moral since you need to kill a lot more insects than animals to get the same amount of meat. It's purely a humiliation ritual.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8e0pU92dmI

>>16292867
>Insects require much more post processing and have lots of waste chitin and other ash for very little protein or fat
Chickens have feathers and bones.
>Potable water is free
Oh, you're an idiot.
>insects eat refined grain,
Oh, you're insane.

>>16292970
It doesn't. He's a cultist that thinks ultra processed seed oil causes cancer and is confusing olive oil with seed oil, despite the fact that by all metrics olive oil makes you significantly LESS likely to cause cancer and most people have zero fucking use for refined olive oil which is the processed shit.

>>16292678
Also explains Hollywood writers.
>>16292815
So far it doesn't seem to be working. The 'Impossible' burgers have been a huge failure, not only losing massive amounts of money but also failing to get fans of the fake meat. Bug meat won't fare any better.

>>16293249
Important to note that "impossible burgers" and other fake meats have do not have comparable nutrition to meat. Your eating textured soi protein, which is the leftover mass after all of the oil had been extracted. It is "meat flavored" filler and mostly carbohydrates.

>>16292713
>cows need to be pregnant to produce it
no, they just need to be milked every day.

>>16293240
>Chickens have feathers and bones.
Feathers and bones have numerous industrial uses.

>>16293305
>Like humans, cows only produce milk as a result of being pregnant. >Dairy cows must give birth to one calf per year in order to continue producing milk. Typically they are artificially inseminated within three months of giving birth.
"Where milk comes from" is something you should have been fucking taught by now. Holy fuck.

>>16293324
So does chitin. Glad we settled that.

>>16293330
>So does chitin.
They are biomedical application that get ruined if you process them in such a way, you have to prepare the insects specifically to extract chitin for it to be useful, not when chitin is the byproduct. Feathers on the other hand are easily extracted with mechanical force rather than chemical intervention.

>>16293305
I wish someone would milk me everyday

>>16293339
>They are biomedical application that get ruined if you process them in such a way
They aren't. Chitin can be extracted with high efficiency from powdered insect remains.

If anything the issue is the the cost vs other sources of chitin, but if it's gonna be waste anyway, companies can afford to sell it for competitive prices.

>>16293249
Think of this as the setup or a test before it becomes unlawful to raise livestock without paying a tremendous tax.
Then the alternative will be given, but as you stated, it's not very popular. They may fail, but then again people support crazy nonsense when they are told to be scared or angry Etc.
Hopefully that never happens, but if you look into the goals they are trying to achieve, you may see where this is going, and it isn't anywhere I want to be lol

>>16293621
Last time this came up it was stated that insects are neither kosher nor halal. Who is going to tax 1.5 billion suicide bombers? Noone. And bugs also have a major bacterial problem.
This will only be eaten by the terminally insane.

>>16293688 Digits
The points you made are certainly correct, and some of the points I've used myself in the past, but these 'people' are determined to achieve their goals.
I don't know what the future will be, but their goals speak for themselves and we should be aware that they are not going to simply stop trying.
Also, more to the intent of the point I made in the post you are replying to; This is meant to erode our way of life and be something we in the west are subjugated to. It's not for the imports.
Still, you make some great points, and I don't believe they will succeed in their attempts to completely undermine us.
>tl;dr
I don't know what will come of this, but they are determined, so we should remain alert.

>>16292571
An unhealthy, malnourished society is less likely to rebel and easier to control.

>>16292571
Why did bill gates' father run a vegan food company?

>>16292713
>he thinks the bottleneck problem for dairy cows is pregnancy
the absolute state of this board

>>16292970
For a start It depends on how the olive oil is produced, how adulterated it is with with seed oils and how old it is..

>>16293688
They make more sense as a feed for poultry

>>16293757
It was more of a waste issue. You have to produce a shitton of cows to keep getting milk. Those cows all need to be fed, vaccinated, kept healthy until they can breed, and disposed of. And you can't even use half of them for milk at all.

Unless you're planning on drinking bull semen, dairy is hardly going to be fucking efficient compared to anything.

>>16293969
Cows make farmland farmable. Imagine trying to farm on lands without animals

>>16293761
he sees the words "extra virgin" and it terrifies him

>>16292571
>Mom, can you pass the butter-like substance?

>>16293761
go on.

how do each of those cause cancer?

>>16292571
To make butter buscuit for chickens

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>>16293969
>I'm serious because I used the f word
>don't get on my wrong side, I might even say the f word at you

>>16294004
>Cows make farmland farmable
nta, wth are you talking about? Farmland is used to grow resources. Pastures are to feed cows and livestock; cropland is used for crop production. No big farm is using cows to till the land.
>Imagine trying...
Do you think farmers are buying cows from John Deere? Like seriously, I don't get where you're coming from

>>16293240
>>16293761
maybe he was thinking about hydrogenated oil
it would have whole bunch of residual garbage that may be carcinogenic

>>16292571
sneed oils 2.0

>>16294269
>I'm serious because I used the f word
To the contrary, using the f-word usually means I don't give a fuck about what I'm saying or who I'm talking to. I can count on 3 hands the number of times I've ever seriously cursed. Cursing completely loses its fucking impact if you use it all the time in serious conversation. If I'm going to curse someone the fuck out, I want them to know I fucking mean it, that there was no other way I could have expressed myself.

Anyway, don't be scared of a few four letter words, dipshit. They're harmless.

>>16293969
lets 'take a cow
she milks for 5 lactations, averaging 8,000l per lactation giving 40,000l total (rough average)
She calved 5 times, producing 5 live calves one of these calves will go on to be her future replacement, the other 4 can be raised for beef production. When she reaches the end of her functional life as a dairy cow she will be fattened for beef too.
So out of this we have produced five beef animals and 40,000l of milk.

Although you aren't wrong to identify pregnancy as a limiting factor for milk production but that's only true if we are completely ignoring the value of the calf.

YOU WILL EAT ZE LARVA BUTTER

I will buy a cow and move to the woods to produce my own butter, but I will never eat crap like this. Fuck these people

>>16292594
No, there's a trend of research being done to force things that are less profitable, because the powers that be have incentives other than money

>>16294588
>she milks for 5 lactations
Dairy cows are typically only used for 2-3 pregnancies.

Also, fundamentally beef isn't milk. I am not claiming milk isn't profitable if you are already dealing in cows. I am claiming it isn't efficient. It effectively only works as a side business to beef production, which itself is horribly inefficient compared to other meat industries (chicken is efficient as fuck even before getting into egg production).

>>16294876
Is now a bad time to point out that the dairy industry is subsidized as fuck to the point of being federally price controlled?

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>>16292571
LOL
You will eat the bugger

>>16292571
Butter can be made from coal. Has been made from coal. Its a particularly easy substance with no chemical complexity like that of a steak. Its just a couple of organic molecules, not any more complex than white sugar.

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>>16292662
>no sense of right and wrong
>it’s not a matter of could, but should
>all progress demands sacrifice
>sweet, man-made horrors beyond my comprehension
>oh-my-science, what have I done?
I like how scientists are indistinguishable from there stereotypical wizard in-method

>>16294997
>from there
from the*

>>16294963
That will depend on the herd.
if they're bewing pushed hard enough to milk only 2-3 lactations they're likely milking 10,000 or 12,000 per lactation

>>16294963
No, it's incredibly efficient compared to chicken or pork because beef converts something completely inedible to humans into something actually edible.

>>16295035
*14,000l

>>16295035
>No, it's incredibly efficient compared to chicken or pork because beef converts something completely inedible to humans into something actually edible
Cows take several times more "something" to get "something actually edible" and it doesn't matter if it's "something completely inedible to humans" if you still need to work to produce and ship it.

The vast majority of cattle aren't only fed via pasture. And that's even LESS COMMON with dairy cattle since they need to be regularly milked.

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>>16295126
Some humans, like myself, need regular milking.

*drops his card, and a short clip, into the space*

>>16295126
There's a huge amount of regional variability in these systems though.
around here dairy cows are mostly grazed through the summer.

If cows are producing milk and meat on land unsuitable for for other crops then they are clearly not competing with humans.
I'm not naive enough to believe all cattle systems work this way but this is an argument for regionalism

>>16294347
not him (and only newfags say "nta") but he likely mean fertilizers from cows digesting grasses into something which could be used for growing crops

>>16295126
Aside from grazing in pasture land, a large part of what cows get fed is basically byproducts of other agricultural production. As someone mentioned above, huge amounts of corn are grown just for ethanol; that only uses the kernels, so all corn stalks, leaves, and cobs get chopped up and made into silage to feed the cows. Same thing with feed corn for chickens & pigs; those animals can only eat the grain, so cows eat the rest. Or wheat, rice, oats, etc for human consumption - people just eat the grain, cows are great for using up all the leftover stalks. Its also really common for farmers to throw out a line of electric wire around their fields after the harvest, and let cattle graze on those fields to pick through all the leftover bits in a manner that is low effort on the farmer's part. Cows being able to breakdown cellulose makes talking about "efficiency" in simple feed conversion ratio terms pointless.

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>>16295137
>If cows are producing milk and meat on land unsuitable for for other crops then they are clearly not competing with humans.
I'm not talking about competing with humans, although to be clear, it's not like you can develop fucking pasture for other uses if the cows need that shit to eat. I'm talking about the time, money and resources you need to dump into cows to get milk and meat.

Neither corn nor cows grow on trees. That's goats.

>I'm not naive enough to believe all cattle systems work this way but this is an argument for regionalism
You're a fucking idiot that's not paying attention to what I'm saying.

Let me put it to you this way, more land is used for animal feed in the USA than for human food. And that's setting aside pasture.

>>16295207
Some problems with this line of reasoning.
1. Corn ethanol is a shitty subsidized resource that makes no economic sense at this time.
2. Corn grown for ethanol could have been replaced with corn grown for human consumption.
3. Crops grown for human consumption *usually have the leftover bits mulched into the soil to retain soil health because what remains, it isn't valuable enough as feed*

There are absolutely cases where farms that grow crops and have cattle will let cattle loose on fields post harvest, but separation of *the same* crops into human cattle feed is not done on an industrial scale, even before adding in the complication that this is about dairy cows specifically.

>>16292571
I'm a lazy fuck, but I'm going to have to start learning to cook stuff from scratch. Also, we need laws to prevent them from putting this shit in food without a warning label.

>>16295274
>Also, we need laws to prevent them from putting this shit in food without a warning label.
Is now a bad time to tell you that red food dye is made from ground up bugs and jellybeans and other candies are covered in bug shit?

>>16295301
No, this is the perfect time to mention that.

>>16295301
anatto is clearly labeled

>>16292970
Olives are a kind of seed, hence olive oil is seed oil

>>16295360
no dice it's made from the fruit

>>16295360
>american education

>>16292571
This is so fucking disgusting, but also hilarious.

>>16295256
>Let me put it to you this way, more land is used for animal feed in the USA than for human food. And that's setting aside pasture.
What is protein conversion efficiency?
I saw figures showing that on a protein basis and especially the limiting amino acids like lycine then meat surpasses plants, with rumen conversion of nitrogen building blocks to a key part of this

>>16296139
>What is protein conversion efficiency?
The ratio of feed protein to food protein.
>meat surpasses plants
Most plants don't have a protein conversion efficiency as they aren't fed protein.

>>16296162
The figures I recall seeing were on a weight of amino acid per unit area basis.

Butter is the easiest synthetic food to make. We already have margarine, synthetic fats made from coal or oil, a ton of different plant oils or animal fats can be used as butter. Lard can be a butter. Its just fat emulsified with some water.
Oh oh oh the actual butter has some leftover milk proteins and some special smell you can chemically put on. Big deal. Any solid fat with salt and the chemical smell from childhood will make do.

>>16292571
They did the math and apparently insect souls weigh less than cow souls, so we should kill them instead to satisfy our bottomless appetite.

>>16292571
Because they're antisocial atheists that don't think there's anything to eating outside of raw calories. Babies die if they're not touched. We need more than just bread and water. I will not eat the bugs.

>>16292594
Also this. Green efforts put a lot of money into alternatives for regular food staples. Vertical farming, synthetic lab grown meat, bug protein. They want you to live in the pod and there's a lot of money in finding out what to feed the caged wagie.

>>16292713
>Theoretically
>If
Shut the fuck up

>>16296264
Ok

>>16296264
Ok 2.

>>16296259
Almost all calories come from grain and legume farming. Bug farming and bug derivatives depends on grain farming.
By mass the production of grain is around 7 billion tons a year, this is comparable with the production of coal and oil, which is also north of 10 billion tons. Cute vertical bug farms cant compete

>>16296264
I mean it is *actually* true on a small scale.

Also there are cultures that do not have an aversion to eating insects. And companies would gladly substitute butter for insects if it became economically feasible (probably just call it butter substitute #7 or something). This is obviously worth the research.

No need to freak out. Bugs are literally just crustaceans. Ever have mudbugs?

>>16292571
We must support 11 billion humans somehow.

>>16296320
Why don't those people that love eating bugs so much make bug butter then. It's my cultural norm to eat butter made from the milk of cows. Respect my culture and stop trying to push your VC backed bullshit on me. You and I both know the VC managers aren't going to eat bug steaks covered in bug butter in their bug pod.

>>16294556
you sound so, incredibly, seriously, faggy.

>>16296488
>Why don't those people that love eating bugs so much make bug butter then
How do you know they don't? How do you know *you* aren't eating bug butter right now? When was the last time you ran down everything in an ingredients list?
>According to the researchers, consumers notice no difference when a quarter of the milk butter in a cake is replaced with larva fat.

>Respect my culture
Developing new recipes doesn't hurt your culture, you whiny bitch.

>>16296827
I don't eat butter and all of my food is home grown. Be less of a demon.

pushing the frontiers of food science is uhhhh
le bad?
new food le bad.
i've never tried it and i never fucking will.
return to tradition.

>>16296892
>all of my food is home grown
So it definitely has bugs in it?

>>16292571
Reuters is owned by AP, which is owned by the Rothschild family.

Absolutely Talmudic.

>>16296927
Bugs in it and made of bugs isn't the same thing.

>>16296940
You eat food made of butter?

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>>16297163

>>16297163
Is somebody taking care of you?

>>16294012
Gives a whole new meaning to "I can't believe it's not butter!"

>>16296927
>oy vey you can't just grow your own food, you have to eat poisonous goyslop from the jewish owned goyslop store and you have to work for mr. shekelstein so you can earn enough money to pay taxes to sentator shekelberg so he will let you keep a tiny pecentage of what you earn that you can take to shekelstein goyslop emporium so you don't starve to death