Is the idea of infinity flawed? I feel like saying the universe has always existed or that a black hole has infinite density is similar to saying that things are as they are because God created them. I think assigning infinity as a value to measure something that we can't fully comprehend or have the ability to measure yet is an easy way out for the human brain, similiar to using religion to explain away all the mysteries of the universe and existence.
If you have some thing that is of some size with some mass, you can divide mass by size and get density. kg/m^3As the size, m^3, tends towards 0, the density approaches infinity. This follows from the math about black holes, and observations of black holes show us our expectations were at least partially correct, so this may be correct as well.
>>16295623It's not flawed. The infinite is more of a metaphysical concept. It exists in the ideal forms of things. When things are measured or observed only computable numbers are used.
>>16295623Yes your idea of infinity is clearly flawed since you aren't actually describing it and you don't even seem to understand that things tend towards it if they have no clear limit to their value, they aren't assigned the value of infinity as it is not a value, but a limit.
>>16295630>divide mass by mass to get densityare you retarded?
>>16295623physicists didn't pull infinity out of their ass. singularities just tell you where the mathematics of general relativity breaks down. no one is physically assigning that value to it, but the mathematics of the best theory physicists have describe it in such a way. physicists know this and want to uncover a deeper understanding.
>>16295685Nice one, anon, you really got him
>>16295685What do you think m^3 is? Mass?Mass cubed?
>>16295695you never heard of higher dimensional mass? you need to go back to school!
>>16295623infinite just means an arbitrary finite number.theres no way to actually have an infinite amount of anything.
>>16295713no it doesn't brainlet
>>16295681How is infinity a limit if the idea of infinity is limitless? How can I describe something that encompasses everything and nothing at the same time? To think your human brain can actually fathom the idea of something having neither beginning nor end is a fallacy.
>>16295713>theres no way to actually have an infinite amount of anything.Then what amount of numbers are in the set of natural numbers?
>>16295720>How is infinity a limit if the idea of infinity is limitless?The same way zero is a specific value based on the idea that zero is valueless.What is a greater limit than unlimited?What is a smaller value than no value?If you can come up with a logical answer, there will be no need for infinity or zero going forward.>To think your human brain can actually fathom the idea of something having neither beginning nor end is a fallacy.Circles and clocks are pretty easy to fathom, even for grade schoolers, since anyone with working vision can observe them directly and see how the beginning and end close in on each other and make a single continuous arc without any clear points of discontinuity such as a beginning or end.
>>16295727The value of nothing and infinity are made up to try and describe what we can't actually measure or describe. If you draw a circle or build a clock it has a starting point and an ending point. The idea of an infinite universe has no starting point or ending point and was not created but rather has always existed which physics has shown doesn't really make sense. Even the deaths of black holes have been measured and they were thought to be infinitely dense at one time.
>>16295741>The value of nothing and infinity are made up to try and describe what we can't actually measure or describe.So you are jealous that other people have already clearly named and described the things that you can't seem to understand?>If you draw a circle or build a clock it has a starting point and an ending point.If you stamp a circle or use injection molding to manufacture the clock face, they will be continuous without distinct starting or ending points.>which physics has shown doesn't really make sense.No it hasn't, every time physics tries to isolate some single universe with a definitive starting point, they end up devolving into infinite multiverses to explain the universe's beginning.>Even the deaths of black holes have been measured and they were thought to be infinitely dense at one time.So what is the finite density of the non-rotating black holes they have measured and what did they use to make the measurements since you totally know?
I wonder how the Holy Quran was able to mention things that happened billions of years ago.
>>16295623Arguments for and against the existence of infinity:https://reducing-suffering.org/believe-infinity/
I'm a subwit but infinity for me is just give me a number and I'll give you a bigger one, or give me a number close to X and I'll give you a closer number that is still not X.
This indicates expansion.
>>16295721you can only have arbitrary finite sets of naturals.>>16295718cope glowie
>>16295623The word you are looking for, is eternity.
>>16297496Not far off, but I think the better term here is arbitrarily (large/small)If you divide the area under a curve into arbitrarily many rectangles, you get an arbitrarily close approximation of the area under a curve.If you divide that are into infinitely many rectangles, you get an infinitely close (exact) answer for the area under the curve.
They aren't very satisfying, but assuming infinity or a infinitesimal just works, so math people can scream about it.
>>1629562385 IQ thread
>>16295623There exists 0 infinities in nature. Infinities follow a set of axioms and can be toyed with following these axioms, but they don’t exist in nature. They’re an imaginary thing and will continue to be just that until one is proven to exist.Any theory or model getting an infinity is likely wrong/faulty.
>>16295752>If you stamp a circle or use injection molding to manufacture the clock face, they will be continuous without distinct starting or ending points.Eh no? It’s still made up of discrete parts (atoms, and then subatomic particles etc.). Just because it looks smooth zoomed out doesn’t make it infinitely detailed.
>>16298063>86 IQ post.>>16298081>There exists 0 infinities in nature>They’re an imaginary thingSo is 0.Your argument for why infinities don't exist in nature is that 0 exists in nature. Lol
>>16298089Yes, there are also no zeroes in nature. Zero is just a tool to help us do maths, there is no pure zero in nature.Our maths are not 1:1 with nature, although they come convincingly close which causes people to assume everything in math is real and natural.
>>16297457EAs are so full of shit
>>16298113Math and nature are both games. I submit to you that the game of infinity is welded to the game of zero. Neither can exist without the other and trying to use the concept of zero to disprove the concept of infinity is an exercise in self defeat.
>>16298124I agree. Both 0 and infinity can not be found in nature.
>>16298130Nature is a wallpaper. You can and will find God in your own personal wallpaper. God is both 0 and infinity. He nevertheless exists in every fold of your wallpaper and in every fold of mine. All the best.
>>16298148TruFax
>>16295623Some of the brightest human minds have been reckoning with the idea of infinity for as long as humans have been around. Nobody has a clear answer for you."Infinity" is not even really a mathematical tool, but a mathematical shorthand. Dividing by zero does not equal "infinity", it's simply an undefined operation.When mathematicians write infinity somewhere, they typically mean it for a continuous process that continues in some manner no matter how big a given value is. Infinity is not really reckoned with in the realms of mathematics that are seriously applied towards physical phenomena. At a more foundational level, there is a discussion of "infinities" meaning infinite cardinalities of sets and how there are multiple kinds of infinity, but their applicability to concepts in the real world is vacuous once you strip away continuity.We use stuff like calculus and analysis for continuous processes, however when you go small enough (quantum mechanics), reality appears discrete. Continuity is closely bound with infinity (for it allows for the idea of the "infinitesimal"), and on the smallest level we can probe this seems to be stripped away and relegated only to a tool of approximation at the macro scale. So, it is possible that Democritus was correct, and Zeno a dirty liar--infinity is a mirage or delusion dreamt up by the human imagination.The interesting monkey wrench is phenomena like singularities, where approaches to infinity to appear to exert serious behavior--behavior that we do not fully understand.The whole issue is unlikely to be solved in our lifetimes--and possibly never. Just remember that "infinity" is not a number, and that it isn't used/manipulated/reckoned with in any grounded mathematical/physical context.>>16298124^^^this is a somewhat cogent opinion. to risk getting too schizosophical, but "all is one is none" is an enduring archetype in human thought.
>>16295623Humans have trouble understanding the infinite and cyclical nature of the Universe because we have been force fed linear thought from childhood. The Universe is infinite, it is cyclical, and God did create it, this a fact, get used to it
