How did this all begin? How does something like this even have a beginning, because in order for it to begin, there must have been a space for it to exist to begin with.I'm so confused how the existence of physical matter was created.
>>16380061What's even crazier is that it JUST BEGUN. In the cosmic scale of things, 13 billion years is fucking nothing. There are stars that will last 100s of trillions of years and black holes that will lost a million times that. The universe is still in it's infancy.
>>16380061It's been always like that anon, there was not beggining.
>>16380067so it's just goes back forever and ever? How is that possible. It must start somewhere surely? It's crazy to think about.
Quantum fluctuation creates inflaton -> inflaton increases in total energy content -> local collapse and energy dump that becomes a dense particle soup (big bang type event)Here’s a short read for laymen: https://space.mit.edu/home/tegmark/pdf/inflation_excerpt.pdf
What I don't get is there's a big bang that happened. Ok cool. But that big bang happened in a plane of existence, so how did that begin? How did the material / energy that created the big bang begin?
>>16380084The energy in the big bang came from the inflaton
>>16380084>How did the material / energy that created the big bang begin?God created it.
>>16380095You may be not fully understanding things, ever.
>>16380098"it just existed bro" is a lateral response. Another one being 'someone just turned on the simulation."
>>16380099NTA but "God created it" is identical to "someone just turned on the simulation"
>>16380061it didn't begin, it always was
>>16380106I mean, that's why I called it a lateral solution. All of them are completely viable from our current understanding
>>16380065Alternatively, the current universe is "mature" in the sense that it's nearing the end of its exciting growth and evolution and most of the rest of its lifespan will be decline and decay. 95% of the stars that will ever exist have already been born. It's better to be alive and able to experience the universe right now than in a trillion years when stars and galaxies have moved so far apart that you can't see anything else and space appears to be just an empty black void
>>16380145I offer Susan Sarandon as a counterargument.
>>16380145Are you sure light propagates trough interstellar / intergalactic environment the way you think?
>>16380157How about a Susan Sarandon that's blind and deaf and frozen to near absolute zero and chopped up into a billion pieces and the pieces scattered so far apart that they will never interact with each other again.That's something that doesn't get better with age
>>16380061>How did this all begin?> in order for it to begin, there must have been a space for it to exist to begin with.Yes. It is called Aether.
>>16380179>How about a Susan Sarandon that's blind and deafI cosign your shit up to here. The rest is poxy
>>16380175That's what the prediction is, for the extremely distant future, yes. The expansion of the universe will eventually outrun the speed of light, to the point that you can't see any other galaxies, and a younger civilization may think their galaxy = the entire universe and they have no way of knowing that anything exists beyond it
>>16380095>God created it.who created god? did god always exist in nothingness and get bored and create a universe ant farm?
>>16381329This, desu baka senpai>why does something exist instead of nothing?>"god did it"It doesn't in any way answer the question. It just shifts the goalposts to "why does god exist instead of nothing"
>>16380090u say energy in big bang came from inflation of quantum fluctuation right.....but how exactly could there be inflation where no energy exists, isnt it litterally a void element space?
>>16380065Which is why its all the more depressing that jews and niggers are the great filter.Its actually insane to think about the fact that our species will probably go extinct, but there might be another chance on a planet out there, right this moment, founding their own version of Rome with their primitive technology as we speak
>>16380061Maybe someone should ask the ayys
Only Brahman exists
>>16380061Sentient Minecraft characters might wonder how it all beganWas there a already a 30milx30mil block 'space' before the map they reside in was generated?What if the computer hard drive was only plugged in a second before the map was made?Are they even able to detect the stop in time when the Minecraft java runtime environment is exited, then later opened and their world loaded?Many may wonder how the existence of all these physical minecraft blocks were created
>>16381354Vacuum has non-zero energy and some properties. On very large timescales it assembles into interesting things by chance. Now if that thing is a seed sequence that keeps going (like the inflaton is), you spawn tons of big bangs and subsequent interesting things.
>>16381631great explanationi thought to my self at first that void vacumn space creates inflation in decrease of vaccum sapce creating inflation hence a bigbang occurs.hey anon did i think something dumb?
>>16381896Once you have random fluctuations, however small, it becomes an infinite monkeys on typewriters sort of situation that eventually gives rise to something other than pure noise.A universe from noise like this also solves the fine tuning problem when coupled with the anthropic principle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8KTA50Z9Z0U
>>16380061Hell if I know, nothing knows. All the religions basically imply the creator doesn't know where it came from either.
>>16380061the universe is a construct of your mind, it doesn't exist when you are unconscious. It "begins" every time you start thinking and "ends" every time you stop thinking.
>>16380061John 1:1
>>16382352That's terrifying to think of, I think the universe is real and we're blessed with a brain to conceive and emulate what the universe wants to show us. You're wrong and need more introspection
>>16382526there may be something that is real, but whatever it is does not come into direct contact with your world of thought. words like "begin" and "end" do not apply to it. you can know that if you jump up you'll fall back down and you can know that if you look through a telescope you can predict what you'll see through some equation, but no one knows how these things relate to "reality." there is nothing "the universe" wants to show you, there is only the projection that your mind creates, perhaps you should introspect to realize the idiocy of anthropromorphizing the universe and believing that it "wants" anything at all.
>>16382508Based knowledgeable anon.
>>16382508Begone from here, vile creature
>>16382536you're right and I apologize, I just want to learn more about the universe and why were here, if we are so insignificant and our minds are a mere trickery, what's the fucking point of all this? How can I tell what's real or not real? What do I do?
>>16380061Trust me, you're meant to be confused. Consider this, we like to assume the concept of time in regards to the big bang "when" it was a singularity, or even ask questions like, "before the big bang ...". Using time, or words to relate time to describe events of things is so intuitive to everyone, however time WAS created by the big-bang, it literally came into existence. To ask, how there was a "beginning", is already a fallacious question, as it does not even relate to what was before the universe.
>>16380061Creation happened out of nothing.It's clearly something that science can't explain and probably never will. You could argue, would we want to? Like discovering hostile life that could wipe this planet out and everything in our solar system, but we send out communication signals anyway.
>>16380061maciej and eve
>>16382536No you're idiotic and obtuse, it's not about anthropomorphization, it's about emergent behaviour, which in its concept not only explains the link between micro and macroscopical laws of physics being basically identical but also explaining convergent evolution and applying the laws on conservation on living beings (biophysics). His question is still valid, "if I think and exist then how does the universe exist ?"Nothing wrong there, it's existential not anthropomorphical, kys hylic drone
>>16380061Imagine a static fractal that describes all of existence/reality and nonexistence/unreality across all of infinity, every energy state, all of time and space, in some hyperdimensional fashion.Nonexistence cannot exist, therefore it doesn't, you are left with existence.Following so far?Why are we? Because this part of existence is habitable. Why aren't we somewhere else? Because >we< are the result of our environment.How did it all start? It never started. It just is, all of it.Entropy is simply tricking you into thinking that something must have started it. No.It will happen and it has happened are the same statements.The ultimate truth is that the universe is infinite.inb4>something can't come from nothing hurr durrr>skyman made everything in 7 days>subjective experiences of time>reality isn't real>reality is subjective>how can nothing not exist>explaining the universe in the themes of the current time as our ancestors have done; animal worship, celestial spheres, divine will, gears, steam machines, computers, AI, etc..^retardedEither you grasp it or you don't, it's that simple.
>>16380061It began with the thought (curse), "I am".The rest is history.
>>16380127>All of them are completely viable from our current understandingNo, since beings require sustenance, it is far less coherent to have some being exist before sustenance at some origin point than to just have some form of emptiness since nothing doesn't have to eat or even necessarily be like beings do.
>>16380880>durr I read "I'm so confused" as "I know all"
>>16381341>why does something exist instead of nothing?Nothing is something, there is no instead of something in that scenario, there is just type of something, the smallest possible amount of anything.
>>16381615Midwit forum posters might try to kick the can.
>>16382352That is called unpause and pause, not "begin" and "end" and if you don't even understand something that simple and choose to use retarded words with quotes around them, I doubt you have anything useful to say or have ever had a productive though in your life.
>>16380095Why that particular demon, why not one of the millions of other magical mythological demons who were credited with creating false realities?
>>16382536Then why did the universe create so many nearly identical bodies with so many different minds and converging ideas about the universe if it isn't creating some kind of order out of chaos across many different minds?Why is your midwit sophistry so ancient and unoriginal if its just a result of your mind and not you mining the external universe for preexisting ideas?
>>16383280>It's clearly something that science can't explain and probably never will.Math can though, 0!=.9...
>>16384128>Imagine a static fractal that describes all of existence/reality and nonexistence/unreality across all of infinity, every energy state, all of time and space, in some hyperdimensional fashion.Why don't you just draw/animate some imagery if you are such a master visualizer?
>>16380079Pre-existing quantum-space with pre-existing properties.Jews claim the same thing with God.
>>16382188>random fluctuations causes the universe..Why isn't the universe undergoing greater rapid expansion now?Isn't there even more of those random fluctuations happening now than was previously?why isn't every every single random fluctuation right now spewing forth another universe full of shit existing?
>>16384236I was merely trying to bring the idea of infinitely repeating structures across.Something that is described by a very simply mathematical construct, which exists as a consequence of inexistence having no causal laws, and contains every possible energy state in an organized manner.Of course this is not an actual thing, it's unreal, a pseudo-object outside of our measurable reality, that is simply useful at explaining why nature has structure and consistency at a fundamental level - something beneath the universe.
>>16384978So you can't actually imagine it yourself, its just a mere whatever that you think someone else can imagine for you?
>>16384978>inexistence having no causal lawsso nothing happens because there is no actions/processes carried out.so every idiot in this thread starting off with pre-existing laws acting on pre-existing material in pre-existing quantum-space is full of pre-existing bullshit.
>>16384128I also believe this. I'm puzzled when people ask "why is there something instead of nothing", the nothing they are thinking about (absence of anything at all) doesn't exist physically, it's just them coming up with a fantasy and building a philosophical argument around it
>>16384128meaningless wank
>>16385747>>16386025I can play with these concepts just fine.Picturing them proper would make little sense as any image you can come up with is a falsity.It's about abstract associations, and abstraction is just something some people are better at than others.No offense intended.>>16385795You are trying to answer a question that is outside of spacetime from inside of spacetime. The question doesn't have to be asked.Outside of spacetime, beyond our universe, causation is not a thing.As mentioned before, inexistence isn't real. Take it away and you are left with existence.Let's put it another way. Nothingness is the absence of any property or possibility; thus, it would be a logical contradiction for something to be created from the lack of possibility of creation.
>>16380061>>16380061>>16380061>>16380061>>16380061>16380061>>16380061>>16380061>>16380061>>16380061>>16380061Nobody knows. Big bang is speculation. All we know for certain is that things farther away appear to be moving apart from us faster and if we gather enough beams we see lots of younger looking stars according to our own theory of stars, with less elements, meaning , since light has a speed limit, that if you go back in time things were likely more clumped together so naturally hotter and denser.Also there is a "glow" everywhere, radiowaves, that comes and goes in all directions, although not completely uniform but lumpy.Thats basically it. BigBang is speculation kn Hubble's Law + CMB
>>16386868You're stringing pop scifi buzzwoords together and thinking what you dribbled makes you sound clever.That's not science, its rambling shit.
>>16384230All different depictions of the same entity : DEVS SOL
>>16386868Yes, why is there something instead of mothing is a legit question science is asking.Your tripe reasoning we don't need to ask that cause inexistence isn't real isn't anything new, nor has it stopped science from asking the question.And yeh, inexistence is a thing; shit happens according to a very specific set of defined laws.. and magical fantastical shit not following that specific set of laws does not.Go peddle your condescending psychoses to someone who gives a shit.
>>16384228>>16384231>>16383978why did I make you so angry?
>>16380157Damn. I was not familiar with her game
>>16386997So you actually worship Moloch since your preferred demon is really just one and the same as every other demon?
>>16387001>Yes, why is there something instead of mothing is a legit question science is asking.Its not a legit since nothing is something, so it is about as legit as asking why there are people instead of humans.
>>16387170>Nah, it aint legit cause I said so...not an argument.give a citation or fuck off.
>>16387170>since nothing is somethingits non-existing, dumbass.
>>16380061You look at an image like that and think you're going to get answers? Point to the galaxy in that image that you think holds the answers.
>>16387191>I can't read, so I will just ignore parts of the post.Not an argumentThe citation is that you brought it up, you know what it means, you are clearly using it to mean something specific, so you know it refers to something in particular.Nothing is so much something that it even has an exact value, a number and a set definition all to its own, 0 and {}.
>>16387230>Nothing is so much something that it even has an exact value, a number and a set definition all to its own, 0 and {}.Nothing is non-existing..retard.
>>16387192It it didn't exist you could have boundaries, you couldn't have individual things, you couldn't be an individual yourself or make individual posts, so you are literally just trying to argue yourself out of existence by claiming there isn't some nothing to separate you from yourself, so it must constantly be getting separated by everything else instead.
>>16387230something can not come from nothing..No such thing exists.Stop talking shit.
>>16387235>durr I can't read so I will just repeat the same lieNothing is so much something that it even has an exact value, a number and a set definition all to its own, 0 and {}.
>>16387237Nothing is something. Things don't just come from themselves, they are themselves, you can't have nothing without it being something and without being in reference to something else since it is the smallest amount of thing possible. You can hold it in your hand and experience it with every physical sensation, you know for a fact you can see it right now with your own two ears.
>>16387236nice horseshit.>>16387238big fuckn deal..you've just stated we have the value zero, which means "does not exist"...YOU have nothing, it doesn't exist.
>>16387241zero means it does not exist..If you hold out your hand with nothing in it..That means you're holding nothing.
wtf is this trolling shit implying nothing gives birth to existing stuff?total fucking autism.
>>16387242Nice failure to come up with an argument.>you've just stated we have the value zeroI accept your concession, nothing is something and it even has a specific numerical value which makes it more real than most other things.>which means "does not exist".No, indeterminate is the math jargon that means you can't know if it exists, but you can know nothing exists because you can hold it yourself and see it with your own two ears and it even has its own specific value.
>>16387249the specific value it has states you have zero of it..it does not exist.
>>16387244>zero means it does not exist..No it doesn't, zero exists, it is the smallest absolute number on the number line, there are axioms specifically necessary to define it in order for the rest of arithmetic to work, without x=x+0 or x*0=0, there is no stability and none of the other math will be sensible or consistent.
>>16387251Zero definitely exists as the origin point just like nothing definitely exists as the origin of things.
>>16387253meaning it does not exist...if you had 0 of a given thing..then.. you don't have it at all..it doesn't exist.
>>16387255>you start with zero...and stay with zero.
>>16387256>meaning it does not exist...No meaning it is one of, if not the most important value in the arithmetic system, it definitely exists as a value, it does not mean nonexistent at all.
we have the number 0...therefore 0 of a given thing means we have that thing...Total fucking autism.
>>16387257Sure, rulers are all just 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0 , 0, 0 instead of 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
>>16387258>No meaning it is one ofNO, one of.. is 1..Nothing is none of... 0.
>>16387261if the measurement is zero.. then you don't have 1 of it, nor 2 of it..you dont have it at all.
>>16387262No, 0 is the first number in numerical order, 1 comes in second, if you want to talk about the first element of an array, you about element 0.
>>16387264You still have a measurement because you can measure nothing, every meter and every ruler begins at zero for a reason because it is the only logical beginning.
>>16387265you need to take your meds..just because we have maths that can represent nothing as a value of zero.. Does not mean your dickhead larp stating something comes from nothing is valid.>>16387267OMG!! humans are really so smart we can count nothing as zero!!You're conflating that with "therefore" nothing isn't a non-existing quantity of something..zero = it does not exist..there is none of it.stop peddling you're worthless carry on wankfest.
>>16387271>durr just we can logically prove it and physically measure it doesn't mean it exists>non-existing quantity of something..Its not non-existent, it is incredibly obviously when I have nothing in my hand or there is nothing in my apple basket, nothing definitely physically exists in those places.>zero = it does not exist..No zero means anything else has the potential to exist there, if not it wouldn't be zero, it would be indeterminate.>stop peddling you're worthless carry on wankfest.Stop coming to a math forum and pretending like you are this retarded with numbers.
>>16387292>Its not non-existent, it is incredibly obviously when I have nothing in my hand or there is nothing in my apple basket, nothing definitely physically exists in those places.Yeh, No shit sherlock.>No zero means anything else has the potential to exist there, if not it wouldn't be zero, it would be indeterminate.No, you've just already stated nothing definitely physically exists..You have the "potential" to have a brain, but you don't..You're brain regardless of potential, is still currently non-existing.>Stop coming to a math forum and pretending like you are this retarded with numbers.Go peddle your universe came from nothing autism on >>/x/
>>16380061a group of human creator beings started it and made us in their image
>>16387339>No, you've just already stated nothing definitely physically exists..It does, it is what physically allows for potential otherwise other things would be there and the area would be completely over filled with energy.Go cry about how you don't want to understand basic math and science and don't even know what an origin point is somewhere else.
>>16380061
>>16387349>It does, it is what physically allows for potential otherwise other things would be there and the area would be completely over filled with energy.OMG!! you mean an empty space can be filled in with something?OMG!! stop the presses..>Go cry about how you don't want to understand basic math and science and don't even know what an origin point is somewhere else.no something every sprang from nothing..Go stick your long free lunch universe gayfest up your ass and dilate.
>>16387454Everything sprang from a function of nothing, it is mathematically proven, 0!=100%.You were given yourself for free, how much did you have to pay to have an ass?
>>16387461>Everything sprang from a function of nothing, it is mathematically proven, 0!=100%.no, thats pre-existing laws functioning over pre-existing quantum space with pre-existing properties..>You were given yourself for free, how much did you have to pay to have an ass?ass? well you came with the thread.
>>16387469No, none of that has anything to do with anything as complex as quantum laws, it is only applying very basic arithmetic logic and combinatorics to observed values.
>>16387477>quantum lawspre-existing laws..>arithmetic logic and combinatorics to observed valuespre-existing laws operating in pre-existing quantum space.
How did the universe begin...>well, we started off with nothing..you mean nothing existing?>yes, except quantum-space with properties and laws acting on it...wow!! no clue what what nothing existing means.
>>16387486Nope, none of that has to do with quantum space, what exactly do you think existed before nothing in that scenario?
>>16387477>it is only applying very basic arithmetic logic and combinatorics to observed values.yeh, thats called "order" as opposed to "chaos" where nothing follows given set of rules and is therefore not repeatable... .
>>16387495>Nope, none of that has to do with quantum space, what exactly do you think existed before nothing in that scenario?yet, here you are insisting something did happen somewhere..Please explain what and where..
>>16387496Ok but this universe is ordered, this numbered thread is proof, and nothing seems to repeatably observably follow the rules of logic defined by the arithmetic logic of 0.
>>16387498No, I said nothing is the source and since nothing is both positive and negative that can happen in one of two ways, the positive case where there is an actual tangible nothingness and the negative case where there is no clear beginning and it seems to lead to an infinite past.
>>16387500so everything you promote is "order"...yeh, thats not nothing..its "order" occurring in a location.takes you right back to >>16387486.>>16387503also takes you right back to >>16387486.
>>16387505>yeh, thats not nothing..Correct, nothing is not the whole order, it is just the starting point.>its "order" occurring in a location.Now is here, yes,>takes you right back to No, that just means that now, the 100%, has pre-existing laws, not necessarily the universal origin point that those laws emerged from when nothing originally became functional.
>>16387509not into magical fantasy tales, bruh.You start with "chaos", not order..There are no laws operating in "chaos".Your special laws are not special, you are not anything interesting nor new.
>>16387515Order is just processed chaos.
>>16387518no, chaos is chaos..nothing repeatable.. leads nowhere.
>>16387523>no, chaos is chaos..I never said it was.>nothing repeatable.. You literally just had to repeat yourself to make the claim that chaos is chaos, so you can't even define chaos without repeating it and once you have defined it, you have created order anyway.>leads nowhere.You are literally trying to use it right now to lead the thread to the nonsensical predetermined conclusion you have concocted.
>>16387529*never said it wasn't
>>16387529>You literally just had to repeat yourself to make the claim that chaos is chaos, so you can't even define chaos without repeating it and once you have defined it, you have created order anyway.no, either of us saying a thing has no effect..thats not even an argument; its just fuckn idiocy.Not interested in you liberally giving yourself pre-existing rules (order) operating anywhere (that must also pre-exist).please go preach elsewhere.
>>16387534>no, either of us saying a thing has no effect..You are half right.Not interested in you repeatedly claiming something pre-existed when you don't understand the concept of retroactive and you can't actually point out anything I am saying existed before nothing, other than muh quantum which has absolutely nothing to do with the logic I presented in the first place.
>>16387542>ok.. well "this" happened..>nah, fuck all to do with pre-existing laws carried out in a pre-existing location.please fuck off.
>>16387546What pre-existing laws and locations are you talking about? You still refuse to actually point them out or say how factorial was derived from pre-existing quantum laws instead of observation that occurred after the fact.
>>16387552>shit happened...>no laws were involved in order for that shit happening..>it all happened without any laws causing it. and it happened no where.again, please fuck off.
>>16380079>TegmarkI like him. But he's describing a model which may or may NOT be correct. Don't market it as one definitive way
>>16387555The laws came because the random shit that happened allowed for observation in retrospect.
What if instead of 'god', the big bang kept happening till it became something that could exist? Even if statistically the universe is near impossible, if attempted endlessly eventually it would come into existence. As for the physics, we still do not fully understand everything out there.
>>16387560not what chaos is, retardo.
>>16387563I don't care what you think, you brought it up and are the nonsensical one trying to say there can't be pre-existing laws because the laws of chaos already exist.
>>16387562
>>16387565NOTHING pre-existed, dumbass.
>>16387571Except of course chaos which is why nothing can pre-exist.
>>16387571I thought you said the whole reason nothing could not be the origin was because it requires something else to pre-exist? Obviously nothing existed, but what else are you saying pre-existed?
>>16387573NOTHING existing is chaos.still not fuckn getting it.>>16387577We've not discussed any of my beliefs..Are we now finished with your shitshow and switching to something else?
>>16380061Long has man pondered creation. Before the golden age of cosmology, creation myths often gave some peace of mind to the curios. However in a day and age when the natural sciences seem to have answer for everything fundamental questions about creation still lie in the domain of religion and philosophy. Oh sure there was a big bang and we have some strong conceptions of how stars and planets are formed and how simple particles become more complex particles, however when you're talking about billions of years ago, science becomes more of a guessing game than an authoritative source of facts and information and models.And even if that were not the case, and you fully subscribe to the Big Bang school of thought. What then came before the big bang? Unfortunately our observations of the universe sometimes lead us with more questions than answers.
>>16387579>NOTHING existing is chaos.If absolutely nothing existed, it would be the most perfect order you could possibly get, perfect balance is when nothing is moving you at all.>We've not discussed any of my beliefs..So you don't actually believe anything you have said and you don't belief the post you made >>16387571 that I replied to?
>>16387237Nothing doesn't exist, it's just an abstract category religious people doing apologetics for Yahweh and Allah come up with, it doesn't exist in physics
>>16387839whu?Who said this "nothing" is supposed to exist somewhere within this universe? There is no "nothing" existing within this universe, there is something everywhere within it.. so this "nothing" doesn't exist in Physics cause thats all Physics is concerned with, whats going on in this universe.
>>16387839Nothing means not existing..No pre-existing cause to allow a free-lunch universe existing without need to explain where it came from..
>>16380098You literally have denied God and will burn in hell if you don't correct this.
>>16387552Please fuck off with your magical pre-existing laws governing magical random quantum-fluctuations occurring in magical pre-existing quantum-space fuelling rapid inflation free lunch universe.
>>16380073The universe doesn't need to answer to people, the universe is God
>>16387503>No, I said nothing is the source and since nothing is both positive and negative that BLAH BLAH BLAH...nothing is non-existence..quoting any laws of Physics is a waste of time, cause there is no physical space existing where your laws of Physics exist.Non-Existence means both your free lunch laws and the space/universe where they work Do NOT Exist.
>>16380061If there is *NOTHING*, then Nothing exists. Thus, the universe had to poop out a *SOMETHING* for that Nothing to be defined as a *NOTHING*.It (the universe and your perception of the universe) is 100% contextual
>>16387923>>16387869
>>16387923NOTHING would be a thing external to the universe..If the universe is "everything"...then obviously "nothing" is not in the universe.. its everything outside it, which is nothing and is nowhere.
>>16387931Literally incorrect. The universe contains everything, including Nothings. For those Nothings to have value, a Something must exist. For those Somethings to have value, Nothings need to exist. >>16387869A nothing is a something. A something can be a nothing.
>>16387942Your definition of "nothing" is zero quantity of an item..That's wrong..Nothing means NON-Existent..The universe is not NON-Existent..You make up bullshit new definitions and peddle magic snakeoil horseshit...
>>16387942If you are in the universe then you exist in existence.."Nothing" isn't any of that.Your "nothing" is a bunch magical free-lunch shit you peddle to sell your self-existing free lunch random fluctuation universe creation story.. that is how things work in an already existing existence..
>>16387954>>16387960Im telling you how the universe went from nothing, to something (the universe).Our understanding of physics is only relative to the observer, humans. If we assume the space that the universe occupies was once actually "Nothing", the universe is was provides context to that Once Nothing. The universe is in a constant state of creation. Imagine you have a full white page, you would see this is blank. You can see it as blank, because you are an external observer.If you were inside the page, you wouldnt even exist, because youd have nothing to observe. Now take that "blank" page, and start adding "context" to the "nothing" of the whiteness, by adding black dots. This is creation. Keep adding black dots until the entire page is full of black. Is this an entire universe full of Something? What happened to the nothings? What we first observed as partial Somethings has now evolved into an entire universe full of Something, no more Nothings left. So now, the observer has no context for these Somethings, the universe is wiped clean. You now have a full Black page, with Nothing on it. This is the Big Bang.
>>16387965That magic blank page you freely give yourself and say "see it all magically springs forth using its own rules"....THAT has to be created from NOT originally existing..you saying its own self always existed and it growing is just its own magically self-existing self doing its own thing... is free lunch nonsense..ALL those free lunch rules only exist and work ONLY within that magical blank page...You can not start off with NOTHING which means nothing exists THEN claim that rules only relevant to a not yet existing magic blank page has something to do with it.. BECAUSE THE MAGIC PAGE AND EVERY THING THAT HAPPENS IN IT DOES NOT EXIST YET...Spontaneous self-existence is a Religious voodoo autism..
>>16387965>There has always existed magical free lunch laws functioning in a magically fertile pre-existing place..>We just had to wait a little while it wound itself up...You really have no idea what NOT EXISTING means..
Paki-anon, Id continue, but you arent even using Free Lunch correctly. Both nothing and something can exist at once depending on the observer and what is observed. Consciousness is dependent entirely on the context of your perception. We only exist because perceive.We are the observers of the universe anon, therefore we can perceive both the somethings and nothings (to a degree). Its genuinely possible you have such a low IQ that you lack consciousness, and therefore accurate perception. Seems that way at least. Look into the quantum observer effect, it explains this idea better than I can here.
>>16388011I'm not interested in listening to your vacuum energy random fluctuation "borrowing" bullshit..That is Physics Laws that exist and only work within a volume of space that must already fucking exist in order for it to happen...Your magical space where "borrowing" something from nothing is allowed to happen... does NOT get to magically self-exist without explaining where it came from.
>>16388026There no borrowing. 1:1 exchange of energy. Shut the fuck up and learn to read. Our understanding of the universe is dependent on our observation of it. Physics already recognizes this. You are not smarter than an entire field of science.
>>16388033There is no exchange of energy.. There isn't any energy.. there isn't fucking anything.You're rambling a bunch of shit happening inside an existing space completely ignoring where that space came from..>muh magical space just exists. just cause.. anything more n my brain shuts down..Fuck off, religious faggot.
>>16388033>Shut the fuck up and learn to read. Our understanding of the universe is dependent on our observation of it. Physics already recognizes this. You are not smarter than an entire field of science.We are all aware of rapid expansion leading to blah blah blah blah..You're missing/skipping the point and going on with what comes next..No one gives a shit about what comes next.. We're discussing what caused it in the first place..Stop carrying on shit about time > 0.0Were only interested in what caused time > 0.0 to exist.
>>16380061In the Beginning, it was only VOID without form... it was OBLIVION..Then.. the Prime-Mover Let order/laws take form..Once order/laws took root; SERIOUS SHIT HAPPENED.
>>16387869Ok then you agree with me that it's an abstract category that serves literally no purpose other than making religious people go ''Allah/Yahweh created the Universe from Nothing!1!1!'' I personally cannot even conceptualize absolute nothing, it seems completely unnatural, the Universe already looks like the closest thing to Nothing you can get (a vacuum where the interesting bits are separated by unimaginable distances of utter emptiness)
>>16388119>In the Beginning, it was only VOID without form...>Before order/laws took root;>it was OBLIVION..>Non-ExistenceFinally an accurate explanation; Before Physics existed.Much Better definition of Nothing than all "the +0 -0 nothing is something" spasticity being vomited by all these fucked in the head spastics.
>>16386983You're a retard who gets offended when someone uses a word that's longer than 3 syllables.And it's only further proven by your Reddit spacing.Please stop posting here.>>16387001Look up primum movens.
>>16386868>inexistence is a thingprove it
>>16388220No, you're posting a bunch of rambling gay shit.
>>16388224You have nothing to say but>hurrr crank buzzword rambling schizo durrrr gayYou're an obtuse redditor who can't rotate apples in his mind.At least *attempt* to add something to the conversation. Alternatively, fuck off.
>>16388234Imagine a static fractal cock embedded onto your skull that describes all of existence/reality and nonexistence/unreality faggottry you post on 4chan.you post rambling gay shit.
>Imagine a static fractal that describes all of existence/reality and nonexistence/unreality across all of infinity, every energy state, all of time and space, in some hyperdimensional fashion.>Nonexistence cannot exist, therefore it doesn't, you are left with existence.>Following so far?>Why are we? Because this part of existence is habitable. Why aren't we somewhere else? Because >we< are the result of our environment.>How did it all start? It never started. It just is, all of it.>Entropy is simply tricking you into thinking that something must have started it. No.>It will happen and it has happened are the same statements.>The ultimate truth is that the universe is infinite.
>>16388240>>16388250You have nothing to say but>hurrr crank buzzword rambling schizo durrrr gayRedditors are a plague.
>>16388257
>>16388262project more you fat squabbling redditorseize contaminating this thread with your vile stink when you have nothing to addg oa w a y
>>16388266You posted absolute fucking shit..Now fuck off and take your static fractal dick shit with you.
>>16388270Kill yourself you fucking retard
>>16380061>How did this all begin?it didnt because universe is all there is so if it came from something it would have had to come from something other than the universe
Laws of physics are limiters that limit interactions to a certain few and defined actions. Before them, no limiters were in place and stuff just chaotically popped in and out. This chaotic soup went on until the limiters were the objects appeared and from that point you have the timeline of the natural universe we observe.
>>16388286Semantics wank that just stifles discussion
>>16387559Inflation theory has the best current evidence and solves the fine tuning problem. It also explains the origin of energy positing that there is an energy creation mechanism of sorts (how else do you go from 0 energy to the total energy content of the universe?)
>>16388292I dont think so, universe is all there is which means it cannot come because the place from which it would come from would not be part of all there is
>>16388305Right so you then believe in an eternal past of the universe.You can’t have an eternal past because that means you ticked past an eternity to get to this point. Nonsense.
>>16388320No but time is just a concept that doesn't mean anything for the universe, like locations of some planets at different times is meaningless when the all there is is just experiencing some type of equilibrium like everything adding up to 0
>>16388372Time is just a ratio between some events. And the universe is non-static with constant events. So an eternal universe would have an infinite number of events going into the past?How did we get past them if they are infinite?
>>16380061The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal TaoThe name that can be named is not the eternal nameThe nameless is the origin of Heaven and EarthThe named is the mother of myriad thingsThus, constantly without desire, one observes its essenceConstantly with desire, one observes its manifestationsThese two emerge together but differ in nameThe unity is said to be the mysteryMystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders
>>16388379>And the universe is non-static with constant events. So an eternal universe would have an infinite number of events going into the past?Yes and going back eternally would also get you back to this moment after it has gone through all the other moments in one eternity and all the particles are in the same place once again, so it loops
>>16388379A time particle transmits events between timelines.
>>16387896The ones you can't even identify because nobody has mentioned them except you?
>>16387919>nothing is non-existence..No, nothing is the existence of an absence, if there wasn't nothing, you couldn't be because there would be something else separating you from yourself instead of nothing being the balancing value that ensures there is no difference between you and yourself.
>>16387954No, non-existence means non-existence, you can't find a single dictionary that defines nothing the way you do, while mathematics axioms specifically defines it as zero quantity, so even if you did, your nonmath definition would belong in >>>/lit/.
>>16387960>"Nothing" isn't any of that.Wrong, nothing is the smallest amount of universe possible.
>>16388886>>16388890>>16388895>>16388896In the Beginning, it was only VOID without form...it was OBLIVION..Then.. the Prime-Mover Let order/laws take form..Once order/laws took root; SERIOUS SHIT HAPPENED.>In the Beginning, it was only VOID without form...>Before order/laws took root;>it was OBLIVION..>Non-ExistenceFinally an accurate explanation;Before Physics existed.Much Better definition of Nothing than all "the +0 -0 nothing is something" spasticity being vomited by all you fucked in the head spastics.
>>16388890>>16388895>>16388896>No, nothing is the existence of an absence, if there wasn't nothing, you couldn't be because there would be something else separating youIn what fuckn pre-existing space was there room for shit exist in?No.. EMPTY SPACE DID NOT EXIST to be empty (nothing) to therefore OCCUPY IT WITH SOMETHING.Your +0 -0 didn't have space to exist NOR laws to freely fill it with something.
>>16387990>Nothing has to be created.No, nothing is the default, something else has to be created from it.
>>16388919see >>16388898 >>16388910
>>16388119Nothing IS the prime-mover in that case since it was the first thing to exist and all else came from it.
>>16388218>Durr nothing isn't something, a void is something instead because I don't understand how synonyms work.
>>16388926I have no problems with that.Fits in with Cosmic-Egg theory.
>>16388931Time didn't exist so fuck all happened.>I need my magic space to pre-exist else I got squat.
@16388222The replies to your post prove it just like /sci/ post No. FCDTRBVN and all of its replies prove it.
>>16388286The preverse ie singularity.
>>16388320>NonsenseNo it just means time speeds up as it goes on, so going backwards infinitely requires time to slow down infinitely too.
>>16388910>In what fuckn pre-existing space was there room for shit exist in?You are the one saying that there had to be room for a bunch of other stuff instead of there just being nothing, dumbass.
>>16388946>You are the one saying that there had to be room for a bunch of other stuff instead of there just being nothing, dumbass.No, thats what you say.There was NO room (nor Time) at all.
>>16388924The first one agrees with me, you just don't know void means nothing, The second one tries to add space to the equation instead of acknowledging the claim that nothing exists and it was the only logical thing that could have existed at some absolute beginning origin point.
>>16388948There was NO room (nor Time) at all.
>>16388933No, everyone else is saying nothing, you are the only one who keeps bringing up magical space and thinks that 0!=100% is part of some quantum law instead of basic logic.
>>16388947>>16388949Thanks for the concession and finally confirming that there was nothing and you are the only one talking about magical space existing at the absolute origin point of the universe instead of it being nothing, the original thing from which everything else sprang because it is the smallest possible state of anything and everything.
>>16388951>muh!! magical pre-existing law had magical pre-existing room to make shit happen.No, you have none of that.No rules No space No Time.
>>16388957Nope, no time existed; so fuck all happened.
>>16388959I know nobody is saying any of that but you, other people are saying nothing.
>>16388977>All us scientists need pre-existing shit, else we got fuck all.>Please, let us be the ones to define nothing as fertile pre-existing stuff we can do shit with!!
>>16388961Correct time is the result of a schism between -0 and +0, it didn't take a certain amount of time to do it, but over time the difference propagates across all possible dimensions because everything and every single thing has at least zero properties whether in reference to itself or to something else that already existed.
>>16388981You are the one doing that though, everyone else is saying nothing is the origin and you are coping by saying nothing is actually one of the other things that came from it instead of actually nothing.
>>16388984>but over time the difference propagates acrossNo.. Time didn't exist.None of that shit happened.>>16388985You define nothing as empty space endowed with time capable of shit happening in it..NO, time didn't exist.None of that shit happened.
>>16388984>time is the result of a schism between -0 and +0Pure horseshit
>>16388926You define nothing as empty space endowed with time capable of shit happening in it..NO, time didn't exist.None of that shit happened.
>>16388993>No.. Time didn't exist.It does now and it did once + and - started to stray.>You define nothing as empty spaceNo, you do which is why you are so confused, I define nothing as the absolute smallest possible amount of anything and everything.
>>16389011>once + and - started to stray.no time existed to do any straying...>No, you do which is why you are so confused, I define nothing as the absolute smallest possible amount of anything and everything.yes, a measurement of magical pre-existing space..Sorry, no such place existed to be measured.
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