>>16446729
they can remember words and abstract concepts
"my car is big and red"
they just can't visualise their big red car
>unless the person is mentally retarded
many such cases

>>16446729
Non red applers always crack me up.

lots of people who claim aphantasia for whatever reason are just retards who think that when someone says they "see something in their head" that they're somehow looking inside their head with their eyes...or something.

>>16446749
That's an even worse assumption and would classify them as retarded if true.

The simple answer is this is one of the dumbest widespread troll jokes humanity has ever created.

>>16446729
If someone says to you “I’m gonna go to the grocery store and get xyz” you don’t automatically imagine that person going to the store and the images of those items. But you still understand what they’re saying. I imagine the aphantasiacs are like this most of the time. But I genuinely don’t know what they would do in the white room, maybe that’s why some people go “crazy” in those rooms from lack of stimulation, whereas we advanced folk can simply use our imaginations.

To figure out what’s going on, we should come up with some sort of test, a way of asking people to imagine something such that they can’t rely on verbal comprehension, but actually have to imagine something visually. Then we’ll know if these people are lying or not.

Side note: the percentage of people who sleepwalk is 4%. The percentage of people who have aphantasia is 4%. Perhaps the two are related and caused by lower consciousness in general.

I have Aphantasisa and SDAM
>(severely deficient autobiographical memory (SDAM), where a person cannot relive memories from their lives, although this does not affect other memory capabilities or general cognition.SDAM is a severe autobiographical memory deficiency, but without amnesia.
All my memory is semantic instead of episodic. So I just remember facts about happenings. It's impossible for me to conjure up images

>>16446793
Can you at least imagine audio? Like a song playing in your head. When you’re alone and have nothing to do, what do you think about?

Just looked up aphantasia on Twitter and the first 4 people claiming to have it had pronouns in their bio. One was a self-described queer and feminist, another was trans.

>>16446729
how do these people not die of boredom when they're kids and forced to read fiction novels in school

>>16446809
Trannies can't visualize how repulsive a partly feminized version of themselves would be.

>>16446792
I bet you there are millions and millions of people who have woken up at night to use the bathroom and never recorded a concious memory of it, at least one time in their lives.
Is that "sleep walking" correlative with aphantasia?
Alcoholic blackout must also be synonymous with a non functioning imaginary visualization in normal life too.

No anon sleepwalking is a completely unrelated common phenomena. I did it as a child a few times and I also have extremely powerful memories of the most insane dreams anyone could conjure up during that same time period.

>>16446804
The anon exactly described his symptoms.
He can recall events to you as if you were reading a greentext, but he can't visualize them.
It's knowing what the color blue looks like without being able to imagine blue in your mind, basically.

I operate this way by default (descriptive instead of imaginative) but that's a habit I developed to save time. My imagination is vivid and broad. I can choose to use it or not, I can choose to be semantic only or not. I believe this is or should be a normal behavior for most people.
I can vividly recall first seeing my first grade school crush and I can also write a short story describing my thoughts during that event without visualizing it.

Pure aphantasia is (purportedly) having ZERO ability to imagine consciously. It's all word association.

But I don't believe it actually exists. I think anon just needs to take a few shroom trips and a solid 18 hours strong LSD dose.

>>16446848
Yeah you sleepwalked as a child because children are less conscious than adults. Duhhh.

>>16446804
No I only have my monologue. Usually I just think about facts and possible states of affairs

>>16446729
Yes, the people claiming to be aphantasiacs are clearly attention whores

>>16446792
>To figure out what’s going on, we should come up with some sort of test, a way of asking people to imagine something such that they can’t rely on verbal comprehension, but actually have to imagine something visually. Then we’ll know if these people are lying or not.
The best method I've come up with is:
>DON'T close your eyes. Imagine you are looking at a house with a pointed roof in winter. Got it? Now tell me whether the lights inside were on.
Basically, you ask them a question where the information isn't already an implicit part of the thing described. I.e., a house always has a color, so even an aphant could list what would be a good candidate color. But houses and "lights being on inside"-state are completely separate things for which they don't have any information already saved inside their brains.

>>16446729
Ex correctional officer here. I managed solitary for a couple years.
Yeah. That's what happens to some people. Pretty sure everyone knows that.
Some people are fine. Just sit there on the bed, day-dreaming away. Even get upset if you interrupt them while they're off in a mind adventure.
Other ones go absolutely fucking berserk if you don't feed them with stimulation. Magazines, pen and paper, phone calls. They cannot cope. I'd talk to them about it, why they fell apart when they were alone when other crooks were fine with their imagination after a few days. They didn't understand at all how that was possible.

>>16446919
Nest, insightful perspective. Thanks anon. It will probably get smothered in this litter box of shitposting, unfortunately.

>>16446924
Neat*

>>16446919
You should have fucked with them and called them pussies who need they moms on god. This is how you turn a low iq mouth breather into a schizophrenic over night.

>>16446729
Aphantasia and many other similar concepts like "cant imagine hypotheticals" "doesnt have an internal dialogue" are just right wing slander to dehumanize their perceived enemies.

>>16446919
Fascinating to hear at least anecdotal evidence of an experiment I assume would never otherwise pass an ERB.

>>16447046
Had one guy that was in for a few weeks and developed an inner monologue while he was in solitary. I'd assume due to it being the first time his environment was quiet enough, no TV, people, drama.
He thought he had completely lost his mind. Took a couple of hours with me and the psych to convince him it was normal, and he was super thankful.
Settled him a lot afterwards.

>>16446793
Are you able to remember what people around you look like, e.g. your friends and family?

Anyone else thinks this aphantasia thing feels like a complete psyop?

>>16446729
isn't he a bestselling author? How does he describe scenes or characters if he's not imagining them?

>>16446793
That sounds like me desu, i have a very good memory but my personal memories and dreams are almost always semantic.

>>16446793
>>16446861
Could you explain the mental process by which you:
1. Recognize a pencil, as in, you see an object and you determine that it's a pencil
2. Recognize a family member or friend

>>16447051
That is remarkable, what a weird experience that must have been for both parties.

my theory is they are conjuring images subconsciously and they are not bridging into the consciousness for some reason

>>16446793
what about dreams? how does that play out?

>>16446919
>>16447051
shit, should have read the whole thread first, sorry for doubleposting

any stand-out markers which differentiates one group from the other besides their reaction to sensory deprivation?

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>>16446729
I can visualize a whole bunch of stuff but I don't literally experience the sensation of seeing it. This might just be fun journeys in linguistical vagueness. I'm a 1 on this scale.

>>16446749
>>16450079
bruh

>>16450110
In my defense, my friend Ricky says he sees little gnomes and leprechauns and stuff fucking around, and I've never seen a gnome or a leprechaun. I'm pretty sure he does think he's laying his eyes upon them and actually seeing them. The way it's phrased in the popular question makes it sound like you're in control of a casual hallucination.

>>16447051
My inner monologue is just me subvocalizing my thoughts (yes, there is an "egg:chicken" dynamic here, but what I am implying is that these thoughts if cast into a verbal mold are indeed fully dependent on this subvocalization taking place).
As in, physically pronouncing the thoughts but not mouthing them.
I think a lot of low IQ people think that is "cringe" because it's "kinda like talking to yourself", so they don't do it, thus never develop strategies to resolve problems in a manner that requires an internal monologue.

>>16446749
I swear it's the same fundamental misunderstanding the people that claim they have no inner dialogue have, they likely expect to literally hear something.

These are behavioral psychology science projects

>>16450111
tomtenisser are real

>>16446899
>>Now tell me whether the lights inside were on.
What response indicates that the test taker positively has aphantasia?

>>16446809
>>16446835
>nobody:
>poltard: TRANNIES

>>16452311
Not knowing.
Someone who imagines the scene paints in BS as needed, and there's no real importance to details like whether the lights are on or which angle you imagined the house from, so people who imagined it will have unconsciously decided that stuff as they were putting it together. Maybe with lights on, maybe off, but they will probably have an answer.

>>16451659
is that really a sign of high IQ that all of your thoughts are linguistically verbalized internally? because i'm the same way and i thought it was autism. also are there any IQ tests that aren't just trick questions?

Aphantasia is just one of those litmus tests to see how retarded you really are

>>16446792
>If someone says to you “I’m gonna go to the grocery store and get xyz” you don’t automatically imagine that person going to the store and the images of those items.
you don't?

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>>16452499
This.

>Aphantasia isn’t real

I have seen that there are a lot of people out there that somehow got the idea that it's "normal" to be able to fully see imagined objects, just like they're real, and anything else is "aphantasia". It's really, truly not.

Please, PLEASE try understanding how light works sometime.

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>>16452406
I must be blind because I can look without seeing Waldo.

>>16452505
But it IS normal to be about to picture imagined objects, not literally giving yourself visual hallucinations but being able to imagine it visually a little like it's a second screen.

>>16446729
yes it is nigga how else do people have low PRI

>>16446792
Imagine a circle with a radius vector on it moving across the horizon from left to right. It's spinning with moderate angular velocity. Suppose you don't move your head or body and it just entered your field of vision. It'll take a few seconds to exit. What's the last direction the vector points that you would be able to see?
Now simply just watch their eyes. They should scan the visual field just like they would in a dream.

>>16453397
Motion is a different dilemma. Occasionally some people talk about it on here with tips and tricks. There is skill in visualization and it is just another miss of government indoctrination for not doing it.
The common one, for those that don't believe:
>a bottle is laying in front of you, spin it around and circles
What people see is something like a framerate glitch where the bottle is not rotating smoothly.
>take an arrow of some color, point it at the bottle as if it is anchored to it
>move the arrow to rotate the bottle

>>16452355
Cope tranny

>>16446729
There was a study showing that when people without aphantasia imagined looking at the sun their pupil constricted slightly while those who claimed to have aphantasia had no change in pupil size.

>>16446729
>A person with a rating of 5 ("aphantasia") would mean that if you put them in a closed white room, they wouldn't be able to:
People have non-visual forms of memory and pattern recognition. You dont need to visualize things to remember what color your car is, since you generally have verbal memory of your car color.

>>16446793
>where a person cannot relive memories from their lives

How accurate are we talking about? I sure as hell can't remember every bus trip i took during my Crete vacation 5 years ago, but a few things i do.

This all could just be the work of subjectivity, cognitive priorities and the deficiencies of language to describe things.

>>16451659
The guy I mentioned (there were a few more with a similar experience but not to the point where they lost their shit) buzzed up on the intercom about going insane, saying that he heard things he was saying echoing in his brain, or before he said it.
>>16449140
The no-dialoguers/aphantasiacs tended to be younger, more impulsive and have more violent crime on their record rather than organized crime. Chicken and the egg though, as time in "the slot" (solitary) seems to provide enough sensory deprivation to stimulate imagination, so perhaps the older ones had just spent more time in prison (Which of course they had).
Its also hard to really lay my personal observations out there because my anecdotes are alien to people other than CO's, and is very much open to misinterpretation.
I could set the stage with a rambling story time post but /sci/ favours condensed autistic exchanges.

>>16452505
>how light works
Do you think light enters your brain through your eyes? "Seeing" is just electrical signals in your brain, imagining an apple and seeing it is basically the same thing

>>16452476
>is that really a sign of high IQ that all of your thoughts are linguistically verbalized internally?
No, but it's not a sign of the opposite either. I don't think studies have been made that check if internal monologue correlates with intelligence.

It's also very dificult to make studies about things purely happening in someone's head because how do you accurately put these things into words so you know the other party understood exactly what you experience.

>>16446729
if it were real these people would be unable to dream

>>16446729
>unless the person is mentally retarded
The mean black iq is 80 the mean mexican iq is 85. In the united states way more than half the country has an iq under 100. So yeah a lot of people are pretty retarded.

>>16455319
Yeah, funny that, aphantasiacs dream in words and emotions.
The emotional component of their memories is often over-developed.

>>16452406
I imagined a whole little mini movie of my dream house, an A-frame out in the snowy mountains with me sitting by a flickering fire sipping hot cocoa. I imagined it, I didn't see it. I can't close my eyes and "be there". There's an image component, but imaginary images are different than visual ones. But I can "see" the scene.

>>16455319
Dreaming is an hallucination. Even people with zero ability to imagine can still dream because everyone can hallucinate. Hallucination is not something most people can do at will.

>>16446835
This is unironically the result of rationalism. It's the application of simplistic principles based on the idea that everything abstracts to a universal value, and all of these values can then be reasoned with absolutely.

>>16446793
So when you recall a movie you've seen, what happens in your head? You see/think a text transcription of the plot of the movie?
I don't believe you desu

>>16446749
So they can "see it" but they're still retards.

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ITT:
Donkey minds, capable of donkey thought and reason.

Ignore. Carry on.

>>16454628
I'd appreciate a story time if you feel like it, it's an interesting look into something hardly anyone gets to hear about directly.

>>16446749
>>16451676
That's the fault of the people communicating what they're doing. I used to think I had aohantasia, until someone asked if I ever imagined myself fucking a hot girl I saw

>>16452505
>>16453234
Exactly. When I visualize things, it's like a 60% opaque layer in GIMP being overlayed on the base layer, or a slightly fuzzy movie being projected from my eyes onto the world in front of me.

>>16446729
they can
they just won't visualize it