>you don't exist for billions of years>you are born and then experience a maximum of 100 years of existence before you fade back into non-existence for an infinite amount of time What was the point of being born?
There isn't one.
>>16448212It is even worse than that. For the first 30-40 years you at least perceive time passing slow enough to make you believe that life is long and is worth living. But once you hit 50 it accelerates like a fucking meteorite and then you crash and burn.
>>16448212How can you be a materialist/physicalist and still believe in the notion of “self” in the first place? There is no soul that’s created at conception that lasts until death, that makes no sense. You’re just a combination of molecules and cells that have the same DNA throughout, and your brain contains physical memories of past experiences, but nowhere in this system such thing as a “you.” That is just a convenient mental tool that we evolved to have. “Identity” literally refers to what is the same, what is identical, but the truth is that the body is changing every second. It’s just that we are relatively more identical with our own bodies compared to others, and so it’s practical to treat people as unchanging selves, as a thing deserving a label or name. But really you are just a biological machine that produces conscious experiences, they don’t “belong” to a “you”, they simply exist. After you die, a baby will be born and will also produce conscious experiences, and that baby will basically be “you” but with different DNA. It simply won’t have memories of your current existence because its brain doesn’t physically have them on record. But of course you’re not just that baby, you’re all beings. There is no such thing as death, there is no such thing as a self, we are all the same consciousness, all suffering is equally real. You are here forever. What’s the point, you ask? To make the world a better place and improve the general quality of consciousness in the long term.
>>16448226To help you understand the issue here, imagine that you are perfectly cloned and that your original body were destroyed. Would the clone be you? It would believe that it’s you, since it has all your memories. This would actually be an effective way of teleportation. You would never even have to know that the original “you” was literally destroyed, you would just find yourself awake in a new location. >um but that’s not me!Well, why not? Because there is no physical continuity between the chemical chain reactions or something? Okay, what if I slightly changed your body such that your appearance, DNA, and memories slowly changed? At what point would you stop being “you”? If I gradually transformed you into a chimpanzee, would that still be you? If I only changed one of your nucleotide bases in your DNA, which affected virtually nothing about you, would that still be you? Where or what is “you”? In physicalism, the idea is simply absurd.
>>16448226>>16448233The failure to recognize this truth stems from Abrahamic belief systems, which hold that there is a “soul” that is formed and then destroyed at death. Even atheists implicitly buy into this dogma by believing in a self, but they believe in the “void” instead of heaven. But it’s also the case that we evolved to be egoistic and to think of our past and future iterations as being the “I” because this was an advantageous belief to have, which makes sense, as this would allow us to care for our survival and reproduction. But unless you’re a solipsist, you have to recognize that other people and animals are just as conscious as you, they also produce experiences with their brains. So how can you believe that their conscious experiences are real while also believing that, from your perspective, the world will magically cease to exist as soon as you die? Obviously your body will no longer exist, but so long as consciousness exists somewhere in the universe, then you will exist there. Those experiences are real just like your current experiences. It is a conceptual and semantic delusion to say “well it’s not me so I won’t experience it”, and yet it is still real, It HAS TO be experienced!
>>16448226>>16448233>>16448237This is the solution to the question: “Why am I me and not someone else?” — because you are everyone! And once you understand this, we can entertain the idea of an infinite multiverse that branches into all possibilities, creating universes that are chaotic but also orderly. Even in less than 0.00001% of all universes have causality and the ability to produce life and consciousness, then since we are all conscious beings, then it’s inevitable for us to find ourselves in even the rarest universes. So it makes no sense to say,”What are the odds! How could the universe align so well? It must be fine-tuned!” when the truth could be that all possible universes exist, and that you will simply always find yourself in the most orderly universes, because those universes MUST be experienced!
If you don’t accept all of this, then your task is very simple: define the self, what it is, how it is created, how it is destroyed, under what conditions it might change, and if that change would mean the cessation of the original self, and so on. And so far, no one has been able to do this, especially not a materialist. But atheists will go on believing in this myth of the self, completely unaware of how problematic this idea really is. Maybe after humans evolve to a higher level of intelligence, all of this will be understood intuitively, and we would all be concerned with the general welfare of all life, which would mean investing in the future millions of years ahead as we invest in our own individual lives.
>>16448212If consciousness is indeed an emergent property, then the you which interacts subjectively with reality is an emergent property of some processes. That means you can be replicated. That means you'll likely be replicated at some point. In fact, you're likely being replicated right fucking now, but you don't know because consciousness is a local phenomena.
>>16448280Soma enjoyer spotted.
>>16448280In which parameters and to what degree would the replicated “you” must conform to say that it actually is “you”? I argue there are no parameters and all conscious experiences are versions of you. See >>16448233
>>16448212No point at all. Just enjoy the ride.
>>16448307Are you an NPC? Or are you a real person? Did you come here to make an empty comment and leave forever, or are you reading this comment right now? Did you attempt to read through this thread? Can you see the other posts?
>>16448280So I'm living as an incel in this life, and all the past lives, and future lives too, because i'm the copy of an ugly manlet sperg (the original version doesn't exist, it's just copies all the way down). Of what you're saying is true, even suicide can't save me, because it'd just mean I die by suicide in every life I've ever lived before I possibly find a gf, and in doing so, doom myself to failure.
>>16448313NoYesJust read itYesYesThe thread changes nothing. There is no point. Just enjoy the ride.If you truly need a point, you'll have to find it for yourself.
>>16448313He's not wrong though and neither is fpbp. All those other posts are meaningless nonsense.
>>16448327ok, feel free to solve the problem of personal identity and define the self. I’ll wait. Or you can continue being an NPC who can’t engage, let alone understand, a perspective that you’ve never heard before https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_identity#:~:text=In%20philosophy%2C%20the%20problem%20of,of%20things%20are%20we%20persons%3F%22https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_individualismhttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertiginous_question
>>16448338No. That's just artificially constructed human gibberish. The universe dgaf.
>>16448345It’s also artificially constructed gibberish that there is such thing as a self that is magically created at birth and persists precisely until the point of death. Can you even answer the fucking question? What is the self? And why is it contained between birth and death? How does physicalism account for this idea?
>>16448349Don't care. It doesn't matter. You're born, you die. That's the entire story.
>>16448352Yeah, you definitely didn’t do well in school. You’re like a monkey trying to discuss quantum physics. Your brain simply isn’t developed enough.
>>16448362I only see one idiot here. You are the one trying to discuss 'the self' on 4chan.
>>16448366you say this as if you aren’t also participating in the conversation, as if anything you have said is somehow how less idiotic. Fucking retard
>>16448338>I’ll wait.Please do. Hold you breath too.
>>16448212If this was the whole story, it would have already happened and I wouldn't be here.
>>16448322No. You aren't letting it be big enough. If what the other's say is the same theory being passed around. There is no reason to assume your all your potential existences, or at least all of the versions of you, that you, would recognize as yourself. Would follow the same pattern of inceldom and self pity. You might be doing cocaine with Johnny depp right now. Here's a theory that is unprovable for you:Once you die, you gain access to the memory's of the versions of yourself you are able to perceive during your existence. After enough eternity you start to look at even further variations. Eventually we wind up wiping our existence away with all the stuff and we all go back to being a little bit ok with it all.
>>16448420Also this in short
>>16448226>How can you be a materialist/physicalist and still believe in the notion of “self” in the first place?Physical bodies with individual physical perspectives.>that have the sameSo it clearly does make sense to you.>nowhere in this system such thing as a “you.”The self contained system itself is the you.>the body is changing every second.You already conceded that there is a body, so you already lost your argument.> you are just a biological machine that produces conscious experiences, they don’t “belong” to a “you”, they simply exist.Except you literally just said that they are produced by the body you recognized as me, so you literally already pre-debunked your own claim.>you’re all beings.Then why can't you just be me long enough to make you seem not completely retarded to me?>improveImprove how, by making a bunch of retarded statements that trivialize yourself and your own direct conscious experience?
>>16448338>the problem of personal identityWhat problem? You are the person whose body you are.>define the self.Your body and its behaviors.Everyone has heard it, you have been spamming this board with it for years, but its not a very compelling "problem" unless you have the kind of brain damage that makes you dissociated from your nerve system responses.>>16448349>magicallyI don't think you understand what magic is, if it were magic, there would not have to be months of physical gestation in a female body and the labor of birthing that follows, a block of mud could spontaneous form into a human body.
>>16448233There is no way of proving that it's "you" piloting the carbon copy of your body. You can only prove that it's a perfect copy, not that it's "you" perceiving things through that body.
>>16448212Physicists are so bad at math that they can't even model a chaotic dynamical system that explains human existence. fuck physicists.
>>16448233Because my consciousness is still not numerically identical to any other consciousness, which is compatible with mind/body identity theory.Identity theory doesn't say that 2 brains performing the same computation will result in just 1 conscious experience.
>>16448212You only experience the moment.The continuation of your consciousness is an illusion.The you of the past may as well be a different person.
You’re looking for a point in a universe that doesn’t care. There’s no handbook, no scripted arc, no big objective waiting to be unlocked. It’s just you, dumped into the chaos of existence, expected to figure it out as you go. Most people try to slap on some meaning—religion, career, family, ideology—but let’s be real, that’s mostly cope.Maybe the real move is to stop trying to "find" the point and just pick one. Run with it, see where it leads, drop it when it doesn’t fit, and don’t expect it to make sense to anyone else. The only "meaning" is what you’re willing to commit to, even if it’s random, contradictory, or just for the hell of it. So if there’s a point, it’s whatever you decide to make yours.As an evil woman once said: Choose life, and live, Snake.
>>16448212The point is to experience the world. There are trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions of sperms that fought to get where you are and you won the lottery. You just forgot the memory of how you got here. As we all do, when we win out
To scientists, conservation of energy does not mean saving energy. Instead, the law of conservation of energy says that energy is neither created nor destroyed. When people use energy, it doesn't disappear. Energy changes from one form of energy into another form of energy.Aug 16, 2023
>>16448226>>16448233unmeasurably based, you made my day with this post
utility
>>16448784((We) must use (((all in) (our power)) to) (save the (energ(tr)ees))) from the (re)gim(e)/(re)d gam(e). (Man)(i)(fe)(st) (br)other.>>16448773As (((they))) show(ed) me... U mock(eth) dtroof as (y)our ((own) form) of C.O.P.E. (mean)ing U are R.E.A.L.
>>16449955That's really interesting! Thanks!
>>16448212the semites are selling your souls at the saturnian kaabahttps://odysee.com/@Realfake_Newsource:9/RFNS-12.20-002-008:6
>>16448226>“self”neuro system's byproduct, (hyper)developed in a result of sensorial interaction of a biomass with surroundings, core function - analyze more data(light, temperature, smell, etc.) to consume more , grow and reproduce
>>16448484>Physical bodies with individual physical perspectives.look at this fool, he thinks he's an independent soul.
>>16448212Stop being a cuck materialist and just admit that your intuition is right: Yes we have souls, and yes consciousness is a fundamental property of the Universe.
>>16451236Prove it. Oh that's right, you can't because materialists always win.
>>16451247>materialists always win.Materialism is just a chicken game where you inevitably cope with your untimely death anyways. Funnily, the only "good" materialists are spiritually inclined buddhists like Yukio Mishima who sought annihilation in the prime of your existence, rather than rotting in a hospital bed as the most worthy causes of their existence.
>>16448420Clever
>>16451254*most worthy cause of existence
>>16451254Huh? Your argument comes down to the fact people are scared of dying?
The carbon atoms that make the "you" identity in your brain will eventually be reused in another brain. Same hardware, different software.It's really simple when you think about it.
>>16451260I never said people being scared of death proves materialism is wrong, I said materialists are wrong for believing they are winners since they obviously cope around the implicit suggestions of complete annihilation with all kinds of bullshit like anti-ageing therapies, space travel, mind uploads, quantum immortality etc. lolMaterialism = Annihilation. Simple as.
>>16451272This has no bearing on materialism being wrong or not. Not to mention there are materialist theories with new life in them (cyclic universe that just goes forever for example)
>>16451273>Not to mention there are materialist theories with new life in them (cyclic universe that just goes forever for example)You mean eternal recurrence? This is a stupid idea.
>>16451280Wrong or not, it's far less stupid than believing souls and consciousness are a fundamental property of the Universe. You may as well believe in the tooth fairy.
>>16451282>Wrong or notActually, it'd be stupid if it was true, because somehow atheists mean to imply that you somehow avoid annihilation by a universe recreating itself to match the exact material conditions of your last birth, which wouldn't even matter because (You) would not even experience novelty of coming into existence again (otherwise it wouldn't be you by this definition to begin with). Also there's lots of reasons to believe the Universe isn't stupid or mindless, like panpsychicism.
>>16448212We are like the dreamer who dreams and then lives inside the dream. You existed before coming here.
>>16448280Yes, in fact in both physicalist emergence and panpsychism the fact that a "reincarnation" of one's consciousness is possible isn't ruled out. In fact, given that there are innumerable planets and aeons in deep time before the last star dies, there will be an innumerable number of conscious beings born, and the chances that one of them could harbor your current conscious is not zero. And all of this is assuming the universe doesn't repeat itself in a cosmic cycle (see big crunch->big bang theories or Penrose's theory), which could be plausible given how little we know in cosmology. Then, conscious beings will be born indefinitely and the chance your consciousness will be reincarnated is, by the law of large numbers, 100%. This remains true in a panpsychist/physical emergentist framework, both prevailing theories that can be considered "materialist" in ordinary usage as neither mention any "souls".
>>16448212Hard to say. We float around on a ball of rock and water in an incomprehensibly large space that extends in all directions around us. Despite our best efforts, We, As a species, Are only just now starting to scratch the surface of exploring the surrounding areas. Knowing this, It makes it all seem pointless. How can it not seem pointless? You live a laughably short life and then you cease to exist, Knowing nothing of what happens to friends, family or even humanity itself you happened to leave on the way. I don't believe in something like "God" seen in various religions because if something like that DID exist in some form and it DID create everything then I ask, WHY did it? I WANT to believe there is some purpose to all of this but I can't seriously believe that until we find out the answer or the answer finds us. IS there a point to all this shit? Who knows?
>>16448219> fpbpThis is the only sane and correct post in this thread.
>>16448212who are you?
>>16448212We have to invent great things for the next generation.
>>16448212Doesn't that kind of prove that time is a function of the mind? The world ends with you, OP.
>>16448225The time between my 16th birthday and my 32nd felt like a couple of months. The perception of time must have been different for you, but then again I'm a shutin retard.
>>16448237But you are writing away solipsism so easily. How do you know for certain that there isn't some mutation in your DNA that makes you the first and only conscious living being in the world and that all other beings are just meatbag automatons that interact as if they're conscious with "nobody home"?The only thing you can know with absolute certainty is that YOU are conscious. Arguments that anyone else in the universe is conscious are strictly probabilistic.
>>16448212You can have sex for a hundred yearstotally worth it
Let's have a thought experiment.Let's start by making the human mistake of trying to apply simple logic and observation.>The universe existsSimple enough, so long as you don't schizophrenically attribute the notion of simulations or a, notice I did not say -the- dreamer but, a dreamer or false fractal dimensions or whatever the hell else people can imagine, not that any of those would matter even if true. I'm willing to argue autistic about this particular discussion in other posts.>The universe exists, therefore it is possible for a universe to exist>In the absence of a universe, a universe can existAgain, simple evidence based reasoning.We have to next jump off the cliff and begin making assumptions.>Universes can exist and do>A universe, eventually, dissipates and dies>empty space, that is an actual nonexistance composed of nothing, is "real" outside of a universenot really an assumption but a logical deduction. anyways,>scale of nothing is infinite>universes are finite>over a long enough time period universes continue to existAnd the final extrapolation,>over a long enough period the same conditions to make the same universe exist>"you" have existed before and will again>you'll always be a sexless incel virgin internet liferThanks for tedding to my cum talk
>>16448212>what was the pointthere being something like a 'point' is merely a matter of logic, which is a system of restating premises. you're not a product of logic, you're a creature driven by instincts. Premises in systems like Logic are a product of feelings, and feelings are a product of actions and experience. As the old wisdom goes "Feelings follow actions". You did certain things, had certain interactions with the environment, and it caused you to have feelings, which caused you to ask yourself unscientific questions, such as "what is the point in life?".>>16448226The 'you' is the phenomenal experience, which is ipso facto irreducible to mere material and mechanical components. Your experience is of nothing outside of the creature, yet does experience the individual creature. This points to a non-material entity that houses experiences; it can't be a product arising from networks of conscious particles; it's self-contradictory to say that we are all one consicousness as each of us doesn't share the same consciousness - "we are all the same consciousness" yet we are not as I am not experiencing being other creatures while I am experiencing a unified experience of one creature instead of experiencing being each particle of a brain structure. I am not consciousness experiencing being one particle, and I am not a consciousness experiencing all matter, my conscious experience is a unified conscious experience of an individual creature with distinct subjective boundaries.
>>16448212>you fade back into non-existence for an infinite amount of timewrong>What was the point of being born?therefore stupid question
I actually believe that once we die, our self "emerges" in a new body. Else we wouldn't be here.
idk
>>16448212https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140116085105.htm
>>16454288thislibtards gonna hate
>>16448484>The self contained system itself is the you.But the entire universe is one large, self-contained system, in constant connection and exchange within itself
>>16448212Everything is just a dream. I believe that there are infinite number of universes which have their own time passage and laws of physics. We are experiencing some of them trough dreams. Including this one universe. In every dream we have different ammount of power to change things around us. We just appear somewhere and live the experience. There are people who lived whole other lifes in their dream and when they woke up they fall into depression because they lost their loved ones in that dream.
>>16455153No, there is no universe, there is a bunch of random stuff and you will never be able to observe or interact with the vast majority of it.
>>16448219that's fucking crazy, can't believe we exist at all, so much luck and possibilities.
>>16455653So basically a dream? Life is literally a fucking dream I knew it bahhaha
for the lulz
>>16448219>claims universe is meaningless >that automatically means his own words and ideas are also meaningless >the atheist/materialist makes meaningless statements yet claims they have meaning in a meaningless realityYou're not as intelligent as you think .
>>16448212to experience, so you can level up
>>16448212To reproduce, it's only true and logical reasoning why we are here, we all came here cause our parents reproduced, so we have to do the same and repeat the stupid cycle, once you have kids and they're grown up, your life doesn't matter at all anymore. It's a cruel funny joke and everyone tries to fact check me but it's true and we're all in for a ride.
>>16448212>What was the point of being born?I came into existence once, why couldn't I do it again?
>>16448256>Low IQ spiritual mumbo jumboThe self is a pattern and patterns change over time. Just because a rainbow is fuzzy does not mean there are no colors. At some point, however arbitrarily defined, one color becomes another. Death is such an arbitrary kine between self and non-self. Something continues, but not you. Your perspective will end. There's no eternal shapeshifting subject.
>>16455863No, it involves s a bunch of other random stuff too, dreams are just one type of thing.
>>16456750what other random stuff and why the fuck does it exist? shit makes no fucking sense, you fucking exist for one time dealing with so much random shit only to end and tell u to fuck off? weak
>>16448225Happened after 22-23 for me (where I also hit a bout of depression). Really sucked all fun out of life. I am 32 now. Everything after 2015 feels like yesterday. I hate it.
>>16448280If that were true, I would remember my past experiences. But I don't. Which means I won't remember this one either, the chain of causality is broken. That hardly makes this different from death.
>>16456753>what other random stuffThe rest of it, all the things you can't just make go away by just waking yourself up.>why the fuck does it exist?Why would a why change anything and how could you even ask why if it didn't exist?>shit makes no fucking senseJust because you don't always benefit from entropy doesn't mean it doesn't make sense, you just don't like it and don't want to think about it rationally.
>>16456767what is rational about it? we don't even have a true grasp of what it means, where is it all going? fuck if i know, the universe does whatever it wants and cucks me out of knowledge
>>16456772The planet will grey shift and become a cloudy paradise for cloud species. You can perceive this truth by judging the world properly. It's no-ones fault you were too weak and stupid to work it out. Fag. Kys now
