chat what's the science behind procrastination?everyone who procrastinates understands that it's completely irrational. so then why is procrastination such a universal struggle?do other intelligent species procrastinate as well?
>>16451259See Kaczynski’s section on surrogate activities. There’s no such thing as procrastination when it comes to basic needs. This also necessitates that animals don’t procrastinate as they are only concerned with survival.
>>16451259fear of failure. people with emotional support and a strong commitment to their community don't do this.
>>16451259Work and school are usually responsibilities not desiresYou might want to deal with schoolwork. you might not. You need to. Will your life be over if you blow something off or call out sick? Probably not. If it becomes a consistent pattern then there are serious consequences.
>>16451259I was going to write a four post essay replying to this point, but my buddy just asked if I want to hop on gmod for a few hours.I'll get around to it later.
>>16451259Anxiety managment, surprisingly enough.
>>16451388Please explain
>>16451505Briefly, an anxious, stressed person will make a decision to delay work on a project that they feel will be difficult or unenjoyable in order to take on another task that they consider to be easier or more enjoyable. This temporarily lessens their stress and anxiety.It's not a successful long term strategy and can spiral into depression.
>>16451259people usually procrastinate because they dont know how to do something.
>>16451279Can you elaborate on this?>>16451388>>16451554Terror management theory is retarded>>16452856Simply not true
>>16453136There’s not much to elaborate. If you procrastinate on essential needs, then you just fucking die. Even something like sex leads to your species dying. But if you procrastinate on non-essential activities, you’re just fine. The only thing you don’t satisfy is your intrinsic psychological need for progress on a goal that was evolutionarily wired into you due to the essential needs above. Since our technological system has essentially eliminated the urgency for essential needs, nearly 100% of your time is spent doing surrogate activities. But deep down we realize that it’s all a trick, just bread and games, which leads to feelings of procrastination, boredom and emptiness. Ironically, the less of a hiveminded bug you are, the more you feel like being unproductive in the current system. This is why Ted makes such a big deal about leftists and their tendencies in his manifesto. He pities them for essentially getting so buckbroken by the system (oversocialized as he calls it) that they pay no attention to getting tricked and just do as told.
>>16453316There's no escaping it though.When you procrastinate on doing boring technology stuff then you get invaded and enslaved by the next door people with their fancy industrial revolution powered by depressed, overworked ant workers.
>>16451259evolutionary psychology channel:https://www.youtube.com/@TheJollyHeretic/videos
>>16451279>There’s no such thing as procrastination when it comes to basic needs.Wrong. If you only knew how bad things can get.
well then why do some people seemingly have more discipline than others? is discipline normally distributed, like iq?
>>16460039Central limit theoremMost characteristics of humans, especially psychological, follow a normal distribution because they're the sum of multiple factors
>>16460559right. i suppose the question is moreso: is discipline (defined as the ability to just do things that are good for you) fixed in the same way that IQ is fixed?
>>16461896If you believe in determinism, yesSaying "IQ is fixed" is an oversimplification that groups fluid and fixed intelligence (g) into one boatFluid g peaks in the late teens and 20s, which is when you see e.g. Einstein publishing his best papers, and declines afterMeanwhile fixed g picks up over time as you accumulate knowledgeThis considered, and seeing that IQ becomes more genetically correlated with age, it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that fixed g is genetic, and fluid g is variably affected by non-genetic factorsFrom that, I would personally draw that discipline is(1) mostly not influenced by genetic factors(2) largely influenced by the environment(3) not at all fixed and highly variable
>>16460559Are normally distributed psychometrics invalid on that basis? That is, IQ is worse than reaction time. If the IQ test sums all these non-normal things into something normal, it would be better to unmix the non-normal things. If factor analysis is PCA what is the psychometric ICA? At the same time this normal-non-normal distinction is pretty flimsy because the best psychological time units might make the population reaction time normal.
>>16461896>is discipline (defined as the ability to just do things that are good for youThere are multiple yous. How does the present you care for the future you? It's good to defer a difficult task if it turns out to be useless or unnecessary, or if you expect to discover an easier way. Yelling and belittling doesn't work on other people. The wrong behavior follows from mistake in perception, not of judgment.
>>16464382>Are normally distributed psychometrics invalid on that basis?No, they aren't. I was just explaining why many of them are normal.>If the IQ test sums all these non-normal things into something normal, it would be better to unmix the non-normal things.Nobody really knows if human psychometrics are actually normally distributed. Maybe the non-normal things balance each other out, leading it to be normal overall.
>>16453316>If you procrastinate on essential needs, then you just fucking dieEssential needs are Q1 in the matrix. When i'm feeling lazy and it's time to cook dinner, i will delay that task until it goes from urgent (dinner time, hungry) to appallingly dire (way past dinner time, starving).
>>16464024>From that, I would personally draw that discipline is>(2) largely influenced by the environmentWhat environmental factors cultivate discipline? (In other words, what can I alter about my environment/lifestyle to help me cultivate more self-discipline?)
>>16451259fear
>>16471650Bump
>>16451259>everyone who procrastinates understands that it's completely irrational.Its not though, it is rational to be as efficient as possible doing a task which could mean waiting until just before its deadline to get it all wrapped up.
>>16455540We aren't in danger of being overpowered by a more advanced society because there isn't one yet. Culture hasn't caught up with technology. It will take many generations for this to change, as cultures that make more of technology emerge. Until then individuals can afford to be lazy, and so they do.
>>16473650>We aren't in danger of being overpowered by a more advanced societyThen why are so many people going to congress to give speeches about UAPs that claim otherwise?
>>16474557It's panem et circenses.
>>16451279I procrastinate shitting if I am doing something I don't want to stop.
>>16451259Societal demands are bullshit. Artificial goals, artificial social pressure to achieve them. And in a society where its all rigged for you get robbed of the majority of your effort. wHy dO peOplE suBconScioUsly SAboTage wOrK?>>16451279FPBP
>>16451259because you save energy for survival (that you don't actually need so you get fat)
>>16473650>We aren't in danger of being overpowered by a more advanced society because there isn't one yetwhat is China
what is the most common cause of procrastinationProcrastination is a complex behavior with multiple potential causes, but some of the most common reasons people procrastinate include:## Task AversivenessOne of the most prevalent causes of procrastination is task aversiveness - when people find a task unpleasant, boring, frustrating, or difficult[1][5]. If someone perceives a task negatively, they're more likely to put it off in favor of more enjoyable activities.## Fear of FailureMany people procrastinate due to fear of failure or criticism[2][4]. The anxiety about potentially not meeting expectations or performing poorly can lead to avoidance of the task altogether.## PerfectionismPerfectionism is another major contributor to procrastination[4][5]. People with perfectionist tendencies may delay starting or completing tasks because they're afraid they won't be able to meet their own high standards.## Poor Time Management and Feeling Overwhelmed Feeling overwhelmed by the size or complexity of a task, or having poor time management skills, can lead to procrastination[3][5]. When people don't know where to start or how to break down a large task, they're more likely to put it off.## Prioritization of Short-Term MoodMany procrastinators prioritize feeling good in the short-term over long-term benefits[1]. They choose to engage in immediately rewarding activities rather than tackling important but potentially stressful tasks.## Low Self-EfficacyA lack of confidence in one's ability to complete a task successfully can lead to procrastination[8]. If someone doesn't believe they have the skills or resources to succeed, they may avoid even starting.While these are some of the most common causes, it's important to note that procrastination is often the result of a combination of factors. Understanding the underlying reasons for procrastination is a crucial step in overcoming it.
>>16478913Citations:[1] Why People Procrastinate: The Psychology and Causes of ... https://solvingprocrastination.com/why-people-procrastinate/[2] What Causes Procrastination (and 7 Real Solutions) - SoulSalt https://soulsalt.com/what-causes-procrastination/[3] The Why Behind Procrastination | NTC Student Success https://success.tulane.edu/why-behind-procrastination[4] The Psychology Behind Procrastination - UMSU https://umsu.unimelb.edu.au/news/article/7797/The-Psychology-Behind-Procrastination/[5] 10 Real Causes of Procrastination (& Its Effects on Your Life) | AWSM https://awesomehealthclub.com/blogs/health-wellness/causes-of-procrastination[6] Procrastination: Why It Happens and How to Overcome It https://www.verywellmind.com/the-psychology-of-procrastination-2795944[7] The Science Behind Causes of Procrastination - UPMC HealthBeat https://share.upmc.com/2024/02/causes-of-procrastination/[8] The Real Reason You're Procrastinating | McLean Hospital https://www.mcleanhospital.org/essential/procrastination
>>16478693Latin America but yellow and more concerned with optics.
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>>16477825what makes a goal artificial and not artificial? a goal may make more sense to a person or less sense, but i don't think there is a relevant natural-artificial dimension. Social goals can be meaningful if they relate to a meaningful part of your personality or community idenitity
>>16478913if i wanted an AI response I could look it up myself. Contribute something original to the discussion!
>>16451259There is no such things as "procrastination". Every thing gets done at its appointed time, including "procrastination", i.e. a quotient of "procrastination" is appointed (or not) between certain things.
>>16451259Maybe is fear that’ll you suck if you try so you subconsciously don’t try to avoid the future disappointment?
>>16452856>>16451554This.
I sometimes procrastinate because I enjoy the intensity of meeting a tighter timeline. Not sure if that's right or not.
>>16451259Nutrient deficiency. Most immediate a lack of carbohydrates but even a prolonged lack of fiber (as substrate for gut bacteria) can cause a deficiency of dopamin and search for it from other sources like provocation, screen abuse etc.Prolonged high dopamin releasing activities is speculated to raise the "base level" and cause addiction and withdrawal but the gut flora remains unmentioned in most psychiatric research and treatment. All serotonin and about half of the dopamin is produced in the gut according to Quanta (an advisory to the British National Health Service).
>>16498485>Quanta*Quadram Institute
>>16474999That's not procrastination
>>16451259>so then why is procrastination such a universal struggle?management is the problem they had insight and the possibility to intervene but they didn't even afterwards they didn't come to the conclusion that they did something wrongmost likely because only the students were graded and everyone else was left out >procrastinationsounds like masturbation's ugly cousin that nobody wants to touch
>>16495023>>16498485>All serotonin and about half of the dopamin is produced in the gut according to Quanta (an advisory to the British National Health Service).Fascinating. Any specific flora in particular responsible for dopamine? Makes me think adhd should be treated with probiotics instead of meth
>>16464024>Meanwhile fixed g picks up over time as you accumulate knowledge>This considered, and seeing that IQ becomes more genetically correlated with age, it wouldn't be far-fetched to say that fixed g is geneticHow does a entity(fixed g) that is variable with the continuity of time, genetic? Do you mean it's genetic as it gets capped out at when you reach a certain point(potential cap) in time. Shouldn't it be the other way around that fixed g is non-genetic but is affected by other factors but fluid g is something that is genetic. I don't get what you mean by this.
>>16451259There is no such thing as procrastination. It's normal you delay doing things you don't like.The reality is that you sometimes have to do things you don't want to.Understand the problem and stop delaying it or learn to enjoy it.
>>16451259Procastination is the cousin of learned helplessness.When you start to thing that the final outcome of a series of activities is out of your control you procastinate.So dull activities with no meaning for you could induce procastination.But also activities that you technically enjoy but you suffered some bad experiences.
>>16508821>So dull activities with no meaning for you could induce procastination.Excellent education system, state run schools are.
>>16451259>Click hereADHD is living hell
Procrastinating is a wicked man
>>16451259In finance there's a concept called 'time value of money', which essentially maps to time preference: whether to get a reward right away or delay gratification. It affects the price of options, and as the underlying volatility increases, this translates into higher option prices via Black-Scholes.For a procrastinator, the trade-off is essentially whether to do the hard stuff right now or some other fun stuff. If the environment has a lot of uncertainty, (high volatility) then it is more worthwhile to have an option and not exercise it. Essentially if you're procrastinating a task, you have the option of doing it or not doing it. And if you just happen to finish it, you spend the time and effort involved but lose the option (equivalent to exercising it). Now if this theory is correct, we would observe procrastination in people who are uncertain of the payoff of a certain action, and that ethnicities from areas in the world where uncertainty rules tend to procrastinate more (subsaharan Africa) compared to more historically stable areas (Europe and East Asia). What do you think?In other words, if you live in a primitive, uncertain world and you're a village chief tells you to do some task you think is useless, you could just procrastinate and wait it out until the village chief somehow falls ill from dysentery or gets eaten by a tiger. It would be to your advantage to do this
>>16542018good post except for the country stuff because a lot of my friends are asians who procrastinate on everything
>>16451279>there's no such thing as procrastination when it comes to basic needsThere absolutely is.Animals don't procrastinate because they don't have foresight. To think about the future, and then to think about what you will do then and what you will not do now requires brainpower that animals don't have.
>>16471650Easiest way? Get paid to do what you're procrastinating and depend on it.
I have a project I've been working on here and there for 2+ years (a video game project to be exact) that people want me to finish but as I am the primary person working on it and I have worked many many many hours on it I feel uninspired and exhaustedI feel anxiety thinking about working on it from the moment I wake up so I just don't work on it usually. It needs to get done but it feels like a sprawling project that always has bugs to finish and things to addI am deeply desperate for a solution. Send suggestions/help. Thank You Sci
>>16547779I got some work on it done yesterday with the help of 5 hour energy and some beer
>>16547779Install a browser extension called leechblock, and make a custom filter that will lock away literally any distracting activity you could possibly try to do while working on your project. Block 4chan, block youtube, block ANY and ALL social media, etc. You can set it up so that it will randomly generate a 64-character code you will need to input if you want to unlock it, and you can make it non-copyable as well. You should do this.Once your custom filter is set up, all you need to do is decide what amount of time you're going to dedicate to your work and activate it accordingly (e.g. you want to work for one hour, you go on the settings and do "block everything from Filter 1 for 60 minutes).Do this for some specific amount of time every day and i can almost guarantee you'll get at least something done. I used to employ this method to work on a job i hated and found extremely tedious despite almost certainly having some degree of undiagnosed ADHD (or whatever kind of executive dysfunction - i can absolutely relate to what you say about "the anxiety of thinking about working") so it is pretty effective.
>>16451279I literally procrastinate on eating to the point of unintentional weight loss>>16550644This extension is a piece of shit, but in the sense that it's mostly fucked if you found out you forgot to whitelist something important, and its temporary block lifting feature doesn't fucking work. Overly effective. I use it too.
>>16550644>>16550679what if we can't even get out of bed to use the computer in the first place
>>16551920Make your bed boring. Leave your phone (along with any other electronic device such as a portable game console) charging on a table that's completely out of reach when you go to sleep so that you don't get the urge to procrastinate when you wake up.
>>16451259>everyone who procrastinates understands that it's completely irrational.its actually the complete opposite
>>16451259Procrastination is people exploring and deciding how to use their time and effort more efficiently, then deciding it's more economical to wait, considering current conditions. Sometimes it's a good judgement call, sometimes it's not.
