https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/elon-musk-s-mission-to-colonise-mars-will-ruin-the-planet-top-scientist-warns/ar-AA1smjsw>Responding to the claims, Professor Andrew Coates spoke about the prospect of humans on Mars and argued that it could contaminate the planet and threaten space exploration in the future.>Professor Coates, who is a physicist from UCL, told the BBC's 'Today Programme': “The last thing we need to be doing is taking life from Earth to Mars. Robotic exploration is the way to go.”
>>16463043Seems like the media ran this because they don't like Elon Musk. There is nothing wrong with putting life on other planets.
>>16463043ruin it as in "put happy productive people there to build and develop it for the benefit of all mankind" like we did in North America, or ruin like "carpet bomb all the churches and hospitals" like is being done in Gaza?
>>16463052Yeah, but what if that comes at the cost of killing any microbial live that could potentially be living there? Especially when those microbes would be a massive discovery and possibly beneficial?
>>16463053>ruin it as in "put happy productive people there to build and develop it for the benefit of all mankind" like we did in North Americayou introduced globohomo and are in the process of destroying all your old growth forests.
>>16463056If the microbes want to survive, they can bloody well adapt and earn it like the rest of us.
Hope Musk names the first manned spacecraft on Mars the Botany Bay.
People are such risk averse cucks these days its properly gay. If it was up to these people we'd never have domesticated animals or left Africa.
>>16463056If humans discover alien microbial life there, we can change our plans accordingly. We could introduce invasive organisms, but they couldn't take over the whole planet from the landing sites. Do you know how long it would take for a micro organism to travel the circumference of mars if it never died and just swam unimpeded? Let alone reproduce enough to take over the whole planet. And it's dry and and bombarded with radiation. Basically this is the most retarded idea ever and this thread shouldn't exist.
>send robots to mars, they find little bacteria fellas>can't send humans as we'd contaminate them>send robots to mars, they don't find little bacteria fellas>can't send humans in case the bacteria are somewhere haven't looked
>>16463043Do these "le scientists" realize they are reactionaries to a level of fundamentalism? They seem to be gatekeeping any progress because it would harm le planets, microorganisms or bipocs. They are the equivalent of the 17th century Catholic church.
>>16463052>>16463043Its not just they dislike Musk, that much is very well known. The more pressing concern for these "people" are that Musk wants life to flourish. That is a threat to their death cult. These people see humans as evil upon this planet and want humans to go extinct.
>>16463043>Scientist Warns that Elon Musk will ruin MarsFucking hell, Environmentalist HATE humans with such a passion that ANYTHING humans do is EVIL in their eyes.Never forget that modern environmentalist complain about solar farms in the desert... the fucking DESERT, because it MIGHT harm the desert ecosystem.Modern environmentalist are a death cult that prays that there will be less humans... in their eyes humans are the problem.
>>16463056There's no fucking life on Mars. It's a toxic, irradiated wasteland.
>>16463043Its not like contaminates could hop a ride on the machinery or anything and its not like all the machinery is going to be left behind as litter to contaminate the planet with a bunch of junk just like earth's orbit is filled with space junk.
>>16463211A lot of scientists that study space are really mad at musk for deploying starlink and creating a ton of sky light pollution that makes looking into space that much more difficult.
>>16463211Sure, all scientists who study space want humans to go extinct, but not the guy who actively wants to replace brains with AI implants and force humans into the metaverse.
>>16463374No. A tiny number of astronomers who want to attention whore make fools out of themselves making public statements that are an embarrassment to the rest of the astronomic community as the problem with artificial satellites in orbit has long been a solved problem for optical observations (which is an extremely niche portion of astronomy these days).That you fell for it shows how gullible you are and how primed you are to believe such things.
>>16463384>has long been a solved problem for optical observations (which is an extremely niche portion of astronomy these days).Sure, there are numerous solutions if you are a multi-million dollar corporation, but gone are the days when you can buy your kid a telescope so they can look around the cosmos as kids have done for generations to get interested in astronomy.
>>16463387How can you stand to be so disingenuous? Seriously, what happened in your life that you decided to waste it on doing low effort trolling on an anonymous image board? What is it that you believe you are accomplishing?
>>16463390Do you need a licence to ride meat that hard?
>>16463390I accept your concession, telescopes are useless now without a bunch of tracking software to block out all the light pollution to the point that you are looking at cgi images rather than an actual view of the sky.
>>16463043But these same people want to send black women to mars
>>16463390I didn't move the goalposts at all, I demonstrated that what once had such a low barrier to entry has had the barrier increased significantly because of all the light pollution created by starlink that requires digital telescopes with real time tracking software to counteract instead of simple traditional telescopes that had been used by kids for generations.
>>16463374Only the ones that are part of the death cult.
>>16463398Retard, the problem is for wide array radio telescopes. Starlink's radio interference is the problem, they aren't visible once they reach their final orbits.
>>16463402You fucking retard, there's no "light pollution". Unless you have a massive radio telescope aimed and a big part of the night sky you won't experience any problems at all.
>>16463404No, anyone who obsesses with dead ass space and dead planets like mars and especially people who profit from it, like Musk, are clearly part of the death cult.
>>16463405Then why doesn't he brag more about how he invented invisibility for giant multi-ton satellites?
>>16463413Because their radio interference fucks with radio telescopes. That's the problem astronomers have. Your bullshit about visible spectrum astronomy is utterly retarded. A regular teleacope won't be able to pick up a starlink on them even with long exposure times (which is not how you do astronomy regardless as you stack images). You're just a subhuman retard talking completely out of your ass. The only time Starlink can be seen are for like 1 week after launch when the boost themselves to their final orbit. That's 20-40 Starlink on the entire globe being on the visible spectrum at best.
>>16463409Wrong, if you point an optical telescope anywhere, you will see constant reflections and shadows from the thousands of starlink satellites everywhere because there are thousands of starlink satellites blocking the view and reflecting light. https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites.html
>>16463418The long exposure time is exactly why starlink fucks up everything because you can't get a good picture without a streak of light or shadow interfering from a satellite streaking across your exposure view.
>>16463424No, you won't. The luminous flux is WAY WAY WAY too low to make that possible. You're speaking completely out of your ass on this one.
>>16463426No, I am repeating what the source I provided says, you are speaking out of your ass and preferring to use name calling instead of factual sources.
>>16463425You don't do long exposure times at all in astronomy you fucking retard. The entire sky removes around you. You stack images on top of each other while aiming at the same target. This by itself removes any satellitea because they move so fast and will not be visible in one or two images taken in the stack.
>>16463427Your source never claimed such a thing. Did you even read it?
>>16463428Sure, I bet you know more about astronomy than space.com and astronomy.com combined who both say it is a problem that is only getting worse the more people want to add artificial mega-constellations.https://www.astronomy.com/space-exploration/starlink-satellite-streaks-how-big-of-a-problem-are-they/
>>16463430It did and it even said starlink has taken clear measures to try to reduce the amount of light pollution so it doesn't scale up as poorly as it has been up until now.
>>16463431Space.com is absolute fucking garbage so unironically yes. Have you tried to not let the first pop science headlines you see you google dictate your agenda driven nonsense? You already posted a source which didn't state at all the claims you made it did.
>>16463433No, that's from this article https://www.space.com/starlink-streaks-disrupt-asteroid-science-zwicky-observatoryfrom the beginning of 2022 you absolute fucking retard. Not whatever you posted. It very fucking clear you only read the fucking headline of another article which was present in the article you posted. Embarrassing. It's not relevant at all now has the new generation of Starlink has long since taken measure to mitigate that. These are 3 years too old news.
>>16463434I accept your concessions.>>16463436No, its definitely from the article I originally posted, maybe you should try reading it before critiquing it.https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites.html>SpaceX has taken action to this effect. For example, recently launched Starlink satellites sport visors designed to prevent sunlight from glinting too brightly off their most reflective parts. >But the huge numbers of satellites in megaconstellations from SpaceX and other private space companies, such as OneWeb, suggest that light pollution and other issues may continue, and advocates have called for greater regulations from government agencies.
>>16463411So anyone who want to bring life to a dead planet is a death cult, but people who are part of group who promote castration of children, killing babies, degrowth, deindustrialization, depopulation, are not? Yeah, I think your brain has been broken.
>>16463440No, anyone who wants to change your focus to a dead planet instead of focusing on what is happening on the one living planet we actually know about is clearly pushing death cult propaganda whether or not they mutilate their children.
>>16463445>insteadSpace budget is 0.0001% of Earth's budget. That instead doesn't work. Sorry sister, you will never be a woman.
Isnt the whole point of colonizing mars.. to uhhh colonize mars?? Doesn't that imply bringing LIFE over??????FUCKING GRIFTER MORONS
>>1646345190% of current academia is of the far left party, which believes humans shouldn't exist, universe should be left dead, earth will be in a better place without humans, etc etc. So they come from that ideology
>>16463450>Space budget is 0.0001% of Earth's budget.Yet its over half of what elon talks about because he is a death cultist straight from the World Economic Forum's official Young Global Leaders list.
>>16463043Musk will not be able to do anything to Mars. He'll probably die of old age before the first person goes to Mars.
>>16463387>>16463398>>16463402>>16463424lol. what a load of crap.
>>16463476kek. what a bundle of concession.
>>16463478i accept your concession
Elon Musk dickriders getting absolutely CREAMED in these threads.
>>16463491Homos dreaming about homosexual activities, you out yourself
>>16463492Still crying?
>>16463491is elon in the room with you now?
>>16463445>No, anyone who wants to change your focus to a dead planet instead of focusing on what is happening on the one living planet we actually knowWhy do you never use this logic when people spend their time and money on watching sportsball games? Or playing video games? Or scrolling TikTok? Are these peope helping the planet?
Really, how stupid do you have to be to think that humans can colonize Mars in the next two thousand years at least?
>>16463548In your eyes, what does "colonization" entail? So we know what exactly it is your calling "impossible" here.
>>16463556Turning Mars into Earth 2.0, terraforming, that kind of stuff
>>16463043They would be in a stronger rhetorical position if they were actually looking for life, instead of the geologists who run NASA funding all of their surveys under the guise of looking for life they know isn’t there in just two more weeks.
>>16463548
>>16463043There is nothing to ruin there
>>16463580And Jesus will be back in 2060 to prove the atheists wrong
>>16463043Anyone against space colonization is a traitor to mankind and must be burned alive.
>>16463200/thread
>>16463559that's why we need to do paraterraforming, that is, living in bubbles and air mattresses spread across the surfaceonly resource acquisition specialists ever leave the bubble
>>16463631stupid frogposter, we will simply soar above their tombs
>>16463631You will never leave this planet
>>16463043>living in ze pod>eating roaches and bioengineered gruel>waging 24/7REEEEE jewish globohomo WEF shill>same but on marsWAOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! TAKE ME DADDY MUSKY
>>16463559Good you clarified, because I agree that this stuff won't be done for a long time. But I won't even have to be done by Earthers, either. It will be done by Martians who have developed a certain patriotism for their home planet in the preceding centuries of settlement of the planet.Like another anon said, this initial settlement will be accomplished via paraterraforming -- just put a thick tarp over some valleys and pressurize the volume.>why would anyone move to Mars?1. dreamers who want to make Mars happen, 2. motivation for others. Powerful interest groups will entice people.>what motivates THOSE interest groups?The dream of wanting to make Mars happen. People want to do it, therefore, given enough time and resources, they will do it.
>>16463717>same on marslmao you are delusionalmars will be a republican commune
>we can't immigrate to the USA because maybe there's indigenous tribes in some areas.
>>16463043musk is cool, he should be the first man on mars.
>>16463056no borders no wall no mars at all!
>>16463548As stupid as an American Republican/ Musk.Ie all of the people here apart from us.
>>16463043>"NOOOOOO! WHAT ABOUT THE COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL MICROBES THAT WE HAVE NO TRACE EVIDENCE OF BEING THERE ON A NOTORIOUS DEAD WORLD?!?!"There's nothing really to ruin. Even if there's microbes on Mars, it's 99.8% likely they were blown from earth via a meteorite within the past 3.5 billion years.There's no proof life ever existed with the few robotic probes we sent. An actual research colony is going to discover far more stuff, far more quickly.
>>16464161What the fuck can humans do that rovers can't already do?
>>16463631Have fun getting perchlorate exposure and dying.
>>16464169Not take 20 minutes to make a decision to keep digging or not
>>16463439>suggest that light pollution and other issues may continue>SUGGEST>MAY
>>16464183>Continue As in, Starlink is still an issue.
>>16464173skill issue desu
>>16463742Unless there's some massive financial incentive to go to Mars, it simply won't happen. Going to the moon is far more likely as there's plenty of material on the moon to be mined and the potential for many different facilities to be built on it.
>>16463056they need to adapt or die like all lifeyou can't stop evolution
>>16463387>but gone are the days when you can buy your kid a telescope so they can look around the cosmos as kids have done for generations to get interested in astronomy.That is so wrong we just reached an entirely new level of wrongess previously not thought possible.
>>16464179Marstards who can't even make decent rovers hallucinating about having civilizations on Mars. This is really peak delusion.
>>16463374No meaningful astronomy is or can be done on Earth's surface any more. Orbital telescopes do all relevant work now.
>>16463211Muskrat is delusional. life on Mars is a massive economic sink. we are no where near ready nor actually capable of creating livable conditions in inhospitable planets.even if Mars was exactly like Earth, it would still be an insane undertaking to create a functioning civilization there.Musk should just focus on electric cars and AI.
>>16463440Is this death cult with us right now?
I think there's no life on Mars, never was, and the first gen of colonists is also going to perish horribly in front of cameras, from mental and physical conditions, and the future mankind is going to feel real stupid about this centuries-long sink of time, effort, and money.
>>16463450And you will never be martian, nor will your descendants.
>>16464888you sound very weak
>>16463056From my point of view that's just a little bonus.
>>16464895Nice projector. Did your dad buy it for you?
>>16464888Mars was once wet, and there might be some lichen like life left, assuming the process of drying out took sufficiently long time.
>>16464912It has been nuked by the sun and sanded down for billions of years. I doubt there's even any trace of life left, if there ever was any.
>>16464911weeeeeeakk
>>16464918Underage taaaaaard
>>16463742All it takes is one eccentric billionaire (see Musk) and its possible.
>>16464923>see MuskLmao, I can't wait to hear your excuses 4 years from now
>>16464923Where's the return on his investment?
>>16464933Probably wouldn't work for Mars but I've always suspected a private moon landing could make its money back auctioning off moon rocks.
>>16464937Well, yeah, moon mining and other facilities being built is almost a certainty, but for Mars, there's really nothing we could get from it.
>>16464938Nah I don't mean mining (though that's a good idea too), I mean just auctioning off the rocks to people that want a piece of the moon. Wouldn't work more than once, but I think the art industry has shown there are enough rich idiots willing to pay for something rare simply to have something other people can't to fund the first one.
>>16464937Most of the moon rocks the US handed out were lost or otherwise misplaced. Doesn't seem like they have much novelty value since more than one of them exists.>Of the 270 Apollo 11 Moon rocks and the Apollo 17 Moon Rocks that were given to the nations of the world by the Nixon Administration, approximately 180 are unaccounted for. Many of these rocks that are accounted for have been locked away in storage for decades.
>>16464946NASA's made a big stink about keeping them out of private hands, though, and have sent the FBI around to take them back whenever they've become aware of it. Hearing about one of the cases was what gave me the idea.
>>16464940So you're just promoting a grift. Not surprising at all.
>>16463043why worry about something that isn't going to happen.
>>16464915Also on Earth there are complex life forms that can survive a lot of radiation. Given millions of years in preparation, life might also survive martian climate.
>>16463043>threaten space exploration>so just don't explore spacebrilliant logic for libs as always
>>16463204We must preserve wild Mars.
>>16463387I just bought my niece and nephews a telescope for Christmas tho.
I'd rather save the animals on Earth first, and not many people seem willing to do that anymore.
>>16464946Defence and aerospace have enormous requirements for logging and accountability, it is incredible that this has even happened and that the responsible have not been locked up. Perhaps they were promoted to those responsible for the space shuttle disasters, also never jailed or even prosecuted.Meanwhile the value of the rocks have declined as they were impropoerly stored and are probably well oxidized by now. Lunar terrain is highly varied so many samples did have a significant value.>>16464948I suspect that was a deflective maneouvre to avoid being investigated themselves for sloppy handling of government properties.
>>16463387>but gone are the days when you can buy your kid a telescope so they can look around the cosmos as kids have done for generations to get interested in astronomy.
>>16465879>the value of the rocks have declined as they were impropoerly stored and are probably well oxidized by now.lol
>>16465875Bring them to Mars and repopulate Mars
Mars is stupid because no one can live there and it cant have an economy. Any talk of trade with Mars is stupid and any mars colonist would have an easier life on Earth, no reason to live there.Only industries in Mars would be tourism and rape bases for ultra elites, basically paid by billionaires that want to do something with their billions.
>>16463043Greta thurnberg wants to ban him from sending ships there, because he might pollute the enivronment (possible life) here.
>>16463678That seems super sustainable and not all all inviting calamity.
>>16463043>...could threaten space exploration in the future.continues to berate current space exploration.what is this dimwits logic here ?!
>all the seethingThose who can't do, teach.
>>16463491The first thought in your head was gay sex. Interesting./home/carsonb/Downloads/pepefroggie.jpg
>>16467097kek dummy
>>16463043Environmentalism is anti-human
>>16463056And those microbes, much like a rare amazonian tree frog, server little to no purpose for mankind.That being said, if you want to personally conduct a mission to mars/amazon to collect these creatures to keep as pets, go ahead. Just don't demand the government does it for you or prevents other people doing greater things.
>>16463181>in the process of destroying all your old growth forests.Nobody's stopping you buying some old growth forest and keeping it as a pet.>introduced globohomoThere was no globohomo in the 1800s. Also Elon and globohomo clearly don't get on well.
>>16463207They're much worse. The 17th century Catholic church acted the way it did to maintain power. These people genuinely hate humanity and want to see all trace of it destroyed. These people are the product of dysgenics.
>>16463317Yes. They are dysgenic spiteful communist mutants.
>>16463374That's unfortunate. You do not own a good view unless you own all that you see. Same argument for neighbours growing pine trees to block your view; solution is to own that land too.
>>16463375>replace brains with AI implantsi don't think he's suggested anything like that, please post if otherwise. At best an assistant, but not replace
>>16463387I can look at the sky right now without any issue.Admittedly if you're doing a timelapse you can get streaks across the cam, but software has already exists to solve this: when a satellite (or aircraft, existed longer) goes across the FOV, the software just doesn't take a photo.Importantly, this sort of timelapse astronomy is a new innovation for amateurs, so it's not a case of "gone are the days" for those days never existed.
>>16463398>to block out all the light pollutionFace reality, as humanity grows and civilization complicates, you will have less untouched environment around you.There is no solution to this. Stop using the government to halt humanity.
>>16466991correct
>>16463424>you will see constant reflections and shadows from the thousands of starlink satellitesI went to an astronomy night a month ago, this did not happen. You have been disproven by evidence.
>>16463411>anyone who obsesses with dead ass space and dead planetsNobody on the dead red planet; its free real estate, no red indians to genocide, so nobody to cry about colonizing it. Yet even with this, leftists still find a way to complain; because they hate humanity.
>>16463445>instead of focusing on what is happening on the one living planetYou're right, we must engineer society around force-feeding morbidly obese niggresses.
>>16463450>Space budget is 0.0001% of Earth's budgetNot just that, but Elon's funding a lot more of it with private capital compared to the moon landings. With any luck he could eventually drop subsidies entirely.
>>16463453this
>>16464173Wash the salt out retard.>finite water supply>wash salt out>get salty water>boil/distill water>repeatIs this really beyond leftist "scientists"?
>>16464885>life on Mars is a massive economic sink.Yes and?It's his pet project, why stop a fool parting from his money?That's not to say in 500 years time the seeds sown now won't turn into an strong economy.
>>16467154NOOO YOU CAN'T JUST BRING LIFE TO MARS IT'S TOO EARLY OMGGG THE ICKK
>>16464888>first gen of colonists is also going to perish horribly in front of cameras, from mental and physical conditionsJames town didnt go well either yet the USA exists quite well.Benefit of mars is there's no red indians to genocide so nobody to complain about it 500 years after the fact.
>>16463056>cost of killing any microbial live that could potentially be living there?Fuck microbial life> Especially when those microbes would be a massive discovery and possibly beneficial?AI will make all discoveries we possibly need
>>16467160There is rape, murder suffering and decay on earth in the trillions.you know how much rape, murder, suffering and decay is there on Mars? zero >> ( " 0 " ) <<humans are a childish species, we are not mature enough to populate the galaxy.
>>16463342There’s life in chernobyl and in the crushing depths of the mariana trench. If life ever made it to mars, there’s a good chance it’s still around in some form. Or at least the signs of it being there are.
>>16463056I don't care if there are actual intelligent aliens there and we end up killing them all. Helldivers 2 is the future pussy.
>>16467863I see you!
>>16463580NYT is legendary for peddling tripe like this, same horseshit for space exploration. They helped popularize the myth that thrusters can't work in a vacuum.
>>16467156It's literally in the dust that covers the entire planet.
>>16467884don't eat the dust then
>>16467884Just bubble over part of it and clean the dirt in there lol. This stuff is not complicated
>>16464885Same tier of dumb fuck that thought 44 billion for twitter was a "waste".Controlling both legislative branches, the executive and the judicial is not waste.He got it all for less than 1/2 what Soros spent trying to get it.
It is humanity's destiny to ensure the continued existence of conscious life.It's such a shame there are so many traitors amongst us.
>>16467908Are you going to magically boil it out of the air when planet wide dust storms start rolling in and hitting your settlements?
Assuming an incredibly optimistic cost of sending goods to mars of $10.000 per kilo how much money would it cost to establish and sustain a Mars base?I also assume no one will try to build anything, a base should be located inside some large cave and the only construction ought to be a series of gates.To bring a million tons of supplies would cost 10 trillion dollars. This is required for construction equipment, a few nuclear reactors, vehicles. I dont see mars ever beibg able to have a complex manufacturing industry but they could be setup to manufacture expensive steel for construction and food. The equipment and spare parts would have to be sent.1 million tons is the weight of a skyscraper. Insane? You have to do some heavy construction.Cost would be 10 trillion dollars at least.Thats 10% of the global GDP. Humanity could do it by agreeing to spend 0.5% of global GDP over a 20 year period.Its up to the elites to decide this.Imagine a base with 2000 people, getting 50 kilos of supplies each day, 100 tons a day, spare parts for the nuclear reactor, a new rover, something new each day.500 million dollars a dayLike 0.2% of Earth's GDP
>>16463043>let's stay on Earth until the Sun burns out because we risk killing some irrelevant microbes>>16463470If we can't get a person to mars before 2050 then humanity has some serious competency problems
>>16468118>$10k/kganon...
>>16468165too cheap?
>>16468168you're off by a few orders of magnitude
>>16463440>So anyone who want to send living people to die on a lifeless hunk of rock is a death cult.Yes.>but whatabout people who...Not an argument.>>16463532>Why do you never use this logic when people spend their time and money on watching sportsball games? Or playing video games? Or scrolling TikTok? Are these peope helping the planet?For 3 reasons:1) At least those people are having fun, which by itself increases mankind's well-being by an amount that's at least above zero (as it is in the case of space colonization)2) Those people are spending their own money, not mine.3) Those people are not virtue signaling about how much their playing videogames will somehow make mankind progress toward some kind of glorious utopia>>16463631>Anyone against paying even more money to build a fancy space-resort for the jews is a traitor to mankindmore like a traitor to subhumans like you>>16463717This. Space colonization is literally globohomo soience, except for chuds.
>>16467121And those microbes, much like a rare amazonian tree frog, server little to no purpose for mankind.That being said, if you want to personally conduct a mission to mars/amazon to collect these creatures to keep as pets, go ahead. Just don't demand the government does it for you or prevents other people doing greater things.Rare amazonian tree frogs actually have viable uses. They tend to have very interesting skin secretions, often alkaloids that can manipulate vertebrate heart and nervous system, compounds that are extremely virulent against fungi and even their skin structure often is destructive to bacteria. I think it was the dendrobates that turned out to have spikes on the cellular level that act like copper and silver at the nano scale and tear bacteria cells up on contact
>>16468111>t.
>>16467125>Nobody's stopping you buying some old growth forest and keeping it as a petIt’s a bit hard to keep a forest that’s already been chopped down
>>16463043>NOOOOOO NOT THE HECKIN BARON WASTELAND PLANET DEVOID OF LIFE YOU CAN'T J-JUST ADVANCE HUMAN CIVILIZATION LIKE THAT REEEEEEEEThe biggest thing holding humanity back is the mainstream "experts" religion of thou MUST protect everything at all costs and have minimal impact on every environment we encounter.It's the idea that we're better of being 99.9% safe rather than 90% safe plus 10% risk. The 10% risk is what moves the needle, we just have to stop listening to these fucking pussies.
>>16463043Implying anyone will ever survive the trip.
>>16468702I see exhibit A has willingly presented himself.
>>16463043How do you "ruin" a currently 100% useless wasteland that no one even thought about until groups like spaces considered colonizing it?Such a massive fucking cope, and I don't say that lightly. Andrew Coates sounds like a tremendous faggot.
>>16463043Funny enough we 'need' to pollute the great living crap out of Mars to terraform it to becoming a livable environment for humans. Fuck the microbes when we can jump start a semi decent earth-like colony by pumping China-amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere via production of usable materials found on that planet and hydrogen electrolysis refineries.
>>16468170so its like 10 dollars a kilo?
>>16469287probably 10x that for Mars but yeah
>>16463187This.Further if we happen upon lifeless place that could theoretically support it then we, as spacefaring sapients, ought to seed life there.
>>16463548Terraforming is pie-in-the-sky for sure.Creating a breeding settlement of humans is also pretty unlikely.You'd need to engineer a self-sufficient closed system, but at such a small scale it would be horribly sensitive.Building a outpost with a rotating staff is possible, but why do it?Collecting material samples? Performing geographical surveys? On-site analysis? Straight-up resource acquisition?The scientific value seems shallow for the effort.The economic value... seems easier to acquire elsewhere.Maybe just being able to say we can do it is enough reason?
>>16469469>at such a small scale it would be horribly sensitive.thats what she said
>He already ruined the feelings of millions of Americans, imagine what he could do to Mars!!!
>>16464885Yes we are, we create massive acre upon acre sterile greenhouses to grow hydroponic vegetables under led lighting so that grocery stores have tomatoes year around. We have the technology
>>16464915We have found life feasting on radioactive decay inside naturally occurring nuclear reactors and in Chernobyl. Not just bacteria, but fucking fungi using radiation to shuttle electrons akin to photosynthesis
>>16468118Musk r/n is putting stuff into space for 1200 a kg. Like you can pay him and he will ship it right now.
>>16469469How is it a closed system? You can literally drive out to the Marian dunes and mine more of what ever the fuck you need
Are the perchlorate all bound with oxygen or do they have nitrogen too?
Mars.Raw materials everywhere.Non-issues on Mars:>chemical waste>heavy metal waste>spent nuclear fuel>the (indoor) carbon dioxide that is slowly lowering global IQ rn>plastic waste>predators (other than an occassional crazed human (probably rare and quickly dealt with)>if you're /x/ then spirits and ghosts>seasonal flu because who's gonna infect you with a new strain in an isolated population of 1k or so>smoke (pack your cigs boyos!) >corpses (toss them outside)>idiotsOkay maybe not idiots, but the rest applies.
>>16469714See >>16467162>James town didnt go well either yet the USA exists quite well
>>16468091>He got it all for less than 1/2 what Soros spent trying to get it.That is the crazy thing about Elon. He does strange things, people complain it is stupid, yet somehow he ends up winning every time. Is it his power level?
>>16469712>raw materialsYeah man we're gonna have so much useless toxic dust right at our fingertips>chemical wasteMars comes prepolluted. The air is toxic, the sunlight is toxic, the dirt is toxic.
>>16463187/thread
>>16469932>Mars comes prepolluted. The air is toxic, the sunlight is toxic, the dirt is toxic.So was ur ex and yet u still wish she was with u chump
>>16469974That's not a very nice thing to say about your own mother
>the ship you need to get to Mars would supersede ever needing to land on Mars>retards still go on about landing on MarsThis shit is so ass. Humans are never going to live on another planet. Humans are going to eventually develop a way to live permanently on spaceships. Eventually they may even develop ways to live within the vacuum of space itself.
>>16467372>AI will make all discoveries we possibly needanon, the only thing we need living microbes for is to check their dna or equivalentif it doesn't match ours, that's spookyif it does match ours, we can estimate how long ago we had a common ancestorwe can then get mommy AI to tell us the implications
>>16463372mold will definitely catch a ride. mold is everywhere. The ISS is filled with it.
>>16469690its likely to cost more to go to mars.>>16469712>Raw materials everywhere.Good for making steel and rocket fuel but all machinery has to be sent from earth. Any economy on Mars will be simple and not self-sustaining. The goal is to minimize the shipments to items of higher value and make bulky items of low value in Mars, such as food and steel, which will still be extremely expensive compared to prices on earth
>>16470462You're wrong.There is an initial investment requirement which will produce exponential returns. You need very little equipment before manufacturing in space becomes cheaper than lifting equipment from Earth. Because Mars' gravity well is much shallower than Earty it also won't be long at all until you start seeing return on investment being sent to Earth.I did my PhD designing chemical engineering production equipment on Mars. I can back this up with very precise numbers.
>>16467121>server little to no purpose for mankind.Except the ones that cure cancers and act as super-antibiotics against the ultra resistant which we may never find because you are too buy trying to destroy the ecologies that harbor them instead of trying to study them.
>>16467125>There was no globohomo in the 1800s.Bullshit, freemasonry has existed long before the 1800s.
>>16463043It's already ruined if you didn't notice doc
>>16470615Freemasonry is not globohomo, it's always been globo yes (if the borders of Christendom was the globe), but not homo.
>>16470626Wrong, they have definitely had a long held goal of global standardization with a borderless one world government dictated by universal maritime laws because they believe the globe is the domain of some homo creator of all, not to mention all the gay orgies because they are as homo as homo gets in every sense of the word.
>>16470630>Wrong, they have definitely had a long held goal of global standardization with a borderless one world government dictated by universal maritime laws For Christian Europeans, yes.>because they believe the globe is the domain of some homo creator of all, not to mention all the gay orgies because they are as homo as homo gets in every sense of the word.The whole "you just have to believe in some higher power homo" is a modernism that didn't exist before the 20th century.They used to be exclusively Christian and hardly tolerated the schisms. The institution just got corrupted like everything since WW1 did.
>>16463043>200 billion+ planets in the milky way >Death cultists want to put red tape on number 1Yeah, it'd be sad to over-write whatever primitive fucked up life is on mars but we really don't have much time to get this show started.
>>16470632>For Christian Europeans, yes.Do you just ignore massive historical events like the Crusades when they don't suit your argument or you are actually that ignorant to not even know about them?>corrupted like everything since WW1The schisms predate ww1 by centuries, Christianity has been measurable corrupt since the fall of the 2nd temple.
>>16470609Even with the shallower gravity well, what is on Mars that would be worth shipping back to Earth for sale? Please don't say novelty gifts.
We should wait and see what Alyssa Carson has to say on the matter.>“I think the University of Arkansas plays a huge role in my career goals,” Carson says. “I was really lucky to find a professor and research at the U of A that I’m passionate about and excited to pursue.” As a doctoral student working with Kral, Carson’s research centers on Mars – and whether certain types of bacteria can survive and grow in Mars’s atmosphere.
>>16470638>Do you just ignore massive historical events like the Crusades when they don't suit your argument or you are actually that ignorant to not even know about them?What do you mean?The Crusades are not relevant to anything I said. They were neither globo nor homo, simply reclaiming lands that, at that point in time, was a part of Christianity for 700 out of the last 1000 years and before that it belonged to the Greeks for another 500 years.Fighting to protect and restore European lands has nothing to do with globohomo.>The schisms predate ww1 by centuries, The Lutheran based Christian schisms are not relevant to the overly inclusive modernist schisms of Freemasonry. Lutheranism is far more anti-homo if anything than Catholocism.>Christianity has been measurable corrupt since the fall of the 2nd temple.Fuck off you dumb LARPing kike, Kike structures have absolutely nothing to do with Christianity which is a Europeanized religion ultimately stemming from Sumerian creation myths predating both Egypt and Hebrews who stole it from them. Trying to imply otherwise is in itself a globohomo modernism.
>>16470668>durr all the globe spanning attempts at homogeneity don't count because I don't want to be wrong>hurr all the schisms that prove me wrong don't count eitherFor the record, the original is the The Great Schism, where orthodoxy was abandoned, not the the protestant ones and beyond where the schisms just evolved.>Kike structures have absolutely nothing to do with ChristianityRome and its fall due to widespread corruption after adopting Christianity definitely does count, though.
>>16470670>The Great Schism, where orthodoxy was abandonedI know, these are uninteresting to us as well in this thread as it has nothing to do with Freemasonry.In the time period we are talking about Orthos were mostly dead already or hanging on by on a thread behind the walls of Constantinople.>Rome and its fall due to widespread corruption after adopting Christianity >after adopting ChristianityRome was declining before that, but I do agree with you that was the nail in the coffin for Ancient Rome. That being said the 9th century revival is the ultimate source of all great institutions of our modern world (universities, scholarship, the mathematized profession of engineering etc.). >definitely does count, though.The only relevant institution surviving the collapse of the Roman Empire is the office of the Pontiff. This is a continuous institution which dates based even to even Ancient Republican times and started with worship based on the old Gods evolving to the cult of Sol Invictus and eventually ending with the new Christian religion based New Testament (originally written in _Greek_ and therefore an Indo-European religion through and through). On any given facet of Christianity studying this institution (and its influences from other Indo-European religions) is far more relevant to Christianity in the high medieval period (including all its tenants and traditions; the concept of the immortal soul and heaven, the concept of sin and Hell, its traditions like Christmas, Easter, etc.).In any case, the further you move back, ironically the more globohomo it all gets. Freemasonry was founded in the low point of both globo and homo ideas. It is a pan-Christian movement yes, but during a time when Western Europe had the only viable Christian states.
>>16470647Actually afaik no one is planning to ship back goods from Mars directly to Earth.The benefit of Mars is to aid in the industrialisation of space, i.e. the entire solar system, not just Mars. Mars provides a cheaper source of fissible materials (e.g. it contains more surface Uranium and Thorium than we have on Earth), propellant (produced from water in the poles) basic construction material (refined from regolith). This allows for the construction if cheap manufacturing facilities to build at first reactors and then miners, probes, energy infrastructure and finally launch sites. This will allow us to build cheap infrastructure in Martian orbit which in turn allows us to cheaply probe and mine the asteroid belt. Here is where the ROI for Earth finally comes in: a near infinite source of high purity PGMs (worth trilions). Bringing the PGMs back to Earth will revolutionize many industries by bringing down the price of these materials: the market for them is virtually endless in the form of catalysts, engineering materials etc. They are amazing to use in everything from renewable energy generation to high value strong, lightweight material applications. The main limitation from an engineering perspective is their price.All of this from the first landing on Mars to the amortization is only 6 years. Only 2 years longer than the average manufacturing plant investment on Earth.
>>16470609>PhD designing chemical engineering production equipment on Marsinteresting!
>>16470744is there any way to read your dissertation? understand if you dont want to give away your identity though. it would just be interesting. maybe there are related papers not by yourself that you could link to covering similar ground?
>>16471106It's not published in public domain yet anyway, I only defended only a few weeks ago.I will shill it twitter relentlessly when that happens, but yeah sorry not gonna post the title here to protect privacy.
>>16471112>not gonna post the title here to protect privacy.yep, totally understand. might come across it some time and think of you lol
>>16470443The ISS also has humans aboardyou can't sterilize the surface of humans like you can sterilize a chunk of steel
>>16471227>like you can sterilize a chunk of steel100% sterilization of steel is a statistical impossibility anyway.See literally any biochemical engineering textbook.
>>16463056>THINK OF THE HECKIN MICROBES, BIGOT!they future is grim
>>16463393Why is it whenever I see a discussion about musk online, some faggot is projecting his fantasies about gay sex?
>>16470744I think your timeline is optimistic to say the least, given orbital transfer windows. Also needs to have all red tape cut and let capitalists start mogging the red planet unhindered. I just don't see that happening, at least not for a while. You would also need a laser sail network across the system. Chemical fuel not going to cut it given the quantities needed, massive energy to produce, dogshit travel times, rocket equation tyranny, aerobraking requirements due to lack of dv, etc etc etc. Laser power has been increasing faster than moores law so this will be viable very soon. Chemical rockets will be like the covered wagons to the laser sail networks railway. I think we will see railway fever again, get your buys in asap.
>>16463056My god, Martian Microbes are now the designated Theoretically Oppressed Minority.Expect Microbe Hip Hop, Spicy Microbe Tacos, and Mic-rapist-obes refugees that will flood our planet, all while the opposition will cry out.>I don't see Microbes. I see doctors, lawyers, nuclear scientists...
>NOOO HE'S GONNA BRING COVID TO MARS!>WITH NO MAGNETIC FIELD HOW WILL THE VIRUSES RECEIVE INSTRUCTIONS FROM BILL GATES?>FLAT EARTH, SAVE ME! AAAAthe fucking media illiteracy of journalists
>>16471359Why you have the mindset of a serf? Your overlords can't touch you Mars Anon. There is no red tape in space.And in any case Trump won so this won't be a problem at all. You will people supporting you not hindering you.
>>16468118>To bring a million tons of supplies would cost 10 trillion dollarsGood think Elon can and will carry on scamming the DIE hires of NASA into giving him govt bucks. Pay of up pay pig! You're the one who want's government intervention in our lives.
>>16471359>Also needs to have all red tape cut and let capitalists start mogging the red planet unhindered.feds don't want this; biden regime tried to stop elon's starship, they fear a mars colony declaring independence. Remember how the feds acted last time states tried to secede from the union (over taxes of course!).
>>16469932you understand men won't be wandering the surface in shorts and a hawaiian top?
>>16467884>dust can't be removedIs this really beyond leftist "scientists"?You are not human.
>>16469932>>16468116why do you think people will be breathing 1kPa 90% -30f martian air? where has this obsession developed?
Fuck these hand-wringing cretins. You can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.
>>16472594Why do you think people will actually be able to live on a planet where they can't even breathe the air or touch the dirt?
Musktards getting destroyed.
>>16463043I disagree with the prof but we decide that fucking Elon out of all people to spearhead a mission to Mars. To him, it's must be like another capitalistic venture. we should put someone more qualified (and less ill-intentioned) in charge.
>>16468116>boil it out of the airWhat does this even mean??>>16473796>someone more qualifiedLike who?
>>16473809>What doss this even mean??It was a snarky remark to someone who said that perchlorate exposure could be eliminated by simply boilling water.
>>16470636We have like 500 million years bare minimum before the sun begins to die and we have to think about doing this.
>>16473815perchlorate exposure cannot be preventedit can, however, be cleaned up, and our bodies are generally tolerant of small quantities of perchlorate
>>16463187Based
>>16464933Who cares?
>>16463043Sure, Mars would be ruined if the Musk and his sycophants followed him there.
>>16474556You're correct.The only people allowed to travel to outer space should be African Americans, as a form of reparations.
>>16463056A big step in human exploration cock blocked by a fucking germ.
>>16474630We should send as many niggers off planet as possible
>>16474655>send nigges into the sun>have an Ai generate videos of niggers shooting eachother on mars>"Sorry LaSheeta but your son Wazkangus died in a gang related event"
>>16474630Also because weak pale skin literally falls off the flesh within that intensity of solar radiation.
>>16474684you've never seen a black person with a sunburn before, have you
>>16463043It's a nonsense concern. You have to *send stuff* to Mars to know if there is life there. It doesn't matter what you send, the risks of contamination are the same. And humans are going to be more efficient, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, at finding that life.
>>16473147they did it on the moon, the practically do it in the polar regions
>>16473815>perchlorate exposure could be eliminated by simply boilling water.perchlorates in the dirt. If your using the dirt for something indoors, wash out the perchlorate with water or another solvent. Recycle the solvent by distilation
musk finna get arrested
>>16463204Doing things is extremely dangerous to OUR democracy
>>16463043There's literally nothing on Mars to ruin. You could detonate every nuclear warhead ever made on it and it wouldn't make a lick of difference
>>16470744>The benefit of Mars is to aid in the industrialisation of space, i.e. the entire solar system, not just Mars. Mars provides a cheaper source of fissible materials (e.g. it contains more surface Uranium and Thorium than we have on Earth), propellant (produced from water in the poles) basic construction material (refined from regolith). This allows for the construction if cheap manufacturing facilities to build at first reactors and then miners, probes, energy infrastructure and finally launch sites. This will allow us to build cheap infrastructure in Martian orbit which in turn allows us to cheaply probe and mine the asteroid belt.Why go to mars at all?Why not just built all that shit directly on an asteroid?And theres nothing cheap about it even done on an asteroid. Theres a huge cost in sending a rocket from any asteroid to earth, i.e nothing can be exported to earth at a profit, i.e all the investment from earth cannot be recovered
>>16463056Are there any common terrestrial microbes that could even hack it on Mars? If the hypothetical native microbes are already better adapted to that environment, wouldn't they naturally outcompete any foreign microbe that would have to change to survive.
>>16476033>they did it on the moonNo they didn't live on the moon, they touched down and almost immediately left.>in the polar regionsPolar regions have an atmosphere and still get magnetosphere protection instead of all the radiation irradiating the surface and even then people only stay for a few weeks at a time and the bases are practically abandoned for the winter which is still significantly warmer than the weather on mars.
>>16463056I think the line we draw for human interference with native life can be a little bit fucking higher than microbes you disingenuous pussy. Let's stop pretending like this doesn't have everything to do with you just not liking Elon.
>>16463052Fpbp. Musk Derangement Syndrome is happening.
>>16463056ok and why have none of these numerous mars rovers ever found any?
>>16483097Since the rovers are not guaranteed to be fully sterilized, they cannot go anywhere near where there could be life today. They are permitted to search for signs of life in the past.
>>16483253so they've made no attemptwhen are they planning on sterilized rovers?
>>16483253That is not true. There is simply no where on Mars where anyone thinks there could be life currently. Stop making stuff up.Post a source saying NASA didn't send a rover to a location where there was any possibility of life for “fear of contamination”.
>>16463043>Elon backing Trump>Temas up with Trump to "Drain the Swamp"Oh no! looks like it's time for the smear campaigns to ramp up! (The goyim know. shut it down)
>>16463211Please kill yourself, histrionic queer
>YOU WILL EAT THE SHIT CAPSULES>YOU WILL DRINK THE COCKROACH "MILK">YOU WILL WEAR THE MASK>YOU WILL OBEY THE CURFEW>YOU WILL REPORT DISSENTERS>YOU WILL GIVE UP YOUR PRIVACY AND FREEDOM>YOU WILL BE SODOMIZED TO TEST FOR FLU>YOU WILL BE MARKED WITH THE DIGITAL "SMART TATTOO" MICROCHIP>YOU WILL EMBRACE THE FOURTH INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION>YOU WILL REJECT GOD>YOU WILL LIVE IN THE SMART CITY>YOU WILL LIVE IN THE POD>YOU WILL GIVE UP EVERYTHING YOU OWN>YOU WILL RENT EVERYTHING, INCLUDING YOUR CLOTHES>YOU WILL ONLY USE THE APPROVED PRODUCTS AND SERVICES PROVIDED BY FAGMAN>YOU WILL EMBRACE THE CASHLESS SYSTEM>YOU WILL TRADE IN CARBON CREDITS>YOU WILL CONNECT WITH NEURALINK>YOU WILL HAVE PROPAGANDA BEAMED INTO YOUR MIND, INCLUDING SISSY HYPNO>YOU WILL NOT LEAVE YOUR ASSIGNED QUARANTINE REGION>YOU WILL ACCEPT OUR VERSION OF HISTORY>YOU WILL ACCEPT THE NEW NORMAL>YOU WILL OWN NOTHING>AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY
>>16486224I look like this and say this unironically
>>16486224You'll never ever end. We will make you live forever on a spaceship and send you to alpha centuri
Fine.Will you pay the fee? Joke. You can have the bank
>>16473796>To him, it's must be like another capitalistic venture.Good. It should be. An entire planet untainted by government.>but it'll turn into a government!If the worst thing that can happen under libertarianism is the formation of government, what does that say about government?
>>16468480>Rare amazonian tree frogs actually have viable uses.Sure, but the cost-benefit ratio isn't in their favor. The solution they may solve can be solved in other ways without them. You're welcome to keep them as pets.Point is there's no excuse to use the government to ban people chopping down the amazon.
>>16470614>Except the ones that cure cancers>which we may never findDon't exist. You're acting like a hoarder, claiming we can't declutter because there might be something useful at some point among all the junk. I don't agree that we must leave the natural world untouched just because someone else in the future may at some point using some not yet theorized hypothetical technology to make some beneficial thing using these creatures.I do not believe in Whale Probes.>destroy the ecologists that harbor them instead of trying to study them.I've nothing against you buying the land on which these ecologists exist and keeping as you wish. I totally oppose your belief (which I presume you have) that the government should ban people doing stuff to their property just because you want someone else to at some point study the ecology there.
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