nothing makes the sci/philosophy cuck seethe more than determinism.a choice must be either:caused (determined)not caused (random)that's it. just like a number must be even or odd.there's no third option - "free will" isn't even a coherent possibility.if you think free will is a third option:how is it not caused by anything but also not random?how does it escape either having causes or not having them?self-causation is impossible.any counter argument runs into this inveitable wall of logictherefore, I present you: The Inevitable Conclusion:free will would require impossible self-causationtherefore free will cannot existdeterminism is the only logical optioneverything must be caused by prior eventsno exceptions possiblecope + seethe + dilate, sci trannies.
>>16477871sorry, cucks. quantum won't save you either:"probabilistic" isn't a third option between caused/uncaused:if probabilities determine the odds = that's still causationif nothing determines the actual outcome = that's randomyou can't be "partially caused" - either something caused it or notthe law of the excluded middle applies.even quantum events must either:have causes (including probabilistic ones)not have causesjust like numbers MUST be even or odd, events MUST be either caused or not. "probabilistic" is just a type of causation, not a third category.cope
>>16477871>sci/philosophy cuckWho are you talking to? Science and philosophy are basically the opposite of each other
Wait til you hear that group of sci trolls say their theory that nothing is something and it spontaneously appeared without cause of the spontaneity. For the most part, I agree with OP, as long as it doesn't mean life is completely caged and there's no self input.
>>16477871How does determinism live with random in the first place?
>>16477871Why are sci fag's so obsessed with free will arguments? Why does religous philosophy live rent free in the heads of determinist?Also there is not such thing as random just hidden variables that cannot be seen through observation.
>>16477871>that's it. just like a number must be even or odd.>there's no third option - "free will" isn't even a coherent possibility.0 isn't even or odd, i isn't even or odd, fractions don't have to be even even or odd, irrantional numbers aren't even or odd, transcendental numbers aren't even or odd, aleph numbers aren't even or odd....
>>16477871If I've got no choice anyway, then I'll just choose to be the best possible version of myself.Who gives a shit, it doesn't matter anyway
Coping, seething, dialating
>>16480387Free will doesn't mean that, free will means free to control ones own will. Determinism and free will are together, which most people don't understand.Our chemistry determines our mode, and we operate bodies like gestalts, but this doesn't mean I don't have choice within the constraints. I can lean towards a certain behaviour, and nothing would restrict me from doing that. I make choices all the time, it's just highly unlikely I'll choose discomfort.
>>16480415The determinism that academic stupids of today argue for is like a straight line. They argue that all decisions are based on chemistry and there's no 'you-in-the-mix' - they argue no control. Well I see this straight line as becoming jagged due to jolting from someone in control. We're not tranquil beings, there's a lot of wrath and competitiveness in us.>>16480415
>>16480415>free will means free to control ones own will.Which you can't do because you will always be exactly you no matter how much will you have to be otherwise, no amount of control over yourself can make you not you and most of yourself is outside of your control anyway, you can't will yourself to have 10 hands in situations where it would be convenience, you are stuck with what you are.
>>16480426Will isn't action, it's essence of future action. My will IS free, I can lean towards whatever behaviour is possible.
>>16480429So then it isn't actual control, its just wishful thinking for control? You have free will if you want to be a woman despite the fact that you never actually will be one?
>>16480432Yes, because no-ones arguing for a ultimate 'free' like you suggest. We accept being free ''within a system'' that also restricts us.
>>16480433>We accept being free ''within a system'' that also restricts us.Ok Orwell, freedom is limitation, war is peace, pain is pleasure, yada yada yada.
>>16480434You're talking smack you tranny, you speak of ultimate things, such as an ultimate kind of control. Is a controller for a video game 'ultimate' - 'does it give you control?' - fuck me faggit you need to kys now.
>>16480434Fag
>>16480441You don't have free will in a video game, you can't fire up super mario on the NES and play it like zelda, you are forced to play under the restricted guidelines of the character in the game you put in the console.
>>16477871>causedIt's caused by free will, in realtime
>>16480433No one? When will compatibilists stop being dishonest lying cunts?
>>16480455Retarded nonsense.No-ones arguing for ultimate freedom or ultimate control.You're too weak to argue with. I'm out.
>>16480459>No-ones arguing for ultimate freedom or ultimate control.Concession accepted, you have limited will at best, obviously it isn't free for someone who is only free enough to be you and have your retarded limitations in thought and action.
>>16480470You have a donkeys mind.
>>16480470You have an asses mind.
>>16480470Cuck
>>16480477>>16480490You have a retarded mind that will always be trapped in your deformed body.
>>16480503CAWWWW
>>16480503>t. the anon who is cucking to some ethereal willpower in which they can't even determine the degrees of freedom instead of simply accepting you are simply yourself and you are limited to what you can be
>>16480524
>>16477871I'm a /sci/ philosophag, and I agree with determinism. I don't see how I can be one but not the other at once.Before the universe existed, there was only the fluctuation between nothingness and something, but all of a sudden, those fluctuations triggered violent expansion, subsequently causing the energy that hence came to create a huge number of elementary particles; What they call the big bang. Energy can be converted into matter, it's the basis of physics. Those elementary particles, each acted in their own predetermined way. Flying around, combining, making atoms, making molecules, making every kind of matter. Giving form to everything in this universe. I don't believe in chance. I don't believe in quantum randomness. Everything is inevitable. The earth, the birth of humanity, cigarettes being made, you reading this post right now, the thought you just had... all of it. It was all laid out the moment the universe came into existence. Nothing more than the extension of the cascading behavior of energy and elementary particles created 13.8 billion years ago. You can't change fate.200 million years ago, our mammalian ancestors developed a neocortex, giving them a superior intellectual capacity. The neocortex continued to hypertrophy through the evolutionary process, giving rise to tools, to sociality, to complex emotions. This was all part of the script. It's even more contrived than anything you'd see in a Hollywood blockbuster.
>>16480532No one gives a shit about your mind you dumb cunt. ((You)) wait.
>>16480535kys dumb nigger
>>16480532>the fluctuation between nothingness and something,Nothing is something, it doesn't fluctuate between the two, it is the two things at once +0=-0.
The only chance for free will is if quantum mechanics randomness is real — but it probably isn’t so that’s that. How to succinctly explain it to midwits: 1+1 always = 2, and if you run that equation for eternity the answer will be 2 an infinity number of times; the universe is deterministic, the end. Every single atomic interaction that led to every action you take has been set in stone since the universe began and the illusion of free choice exists solely as an imaginary concept your brain manifests because it lacks the ability to sense and track the universe at the atomic level, just as if you look closely enough at a circle on your screen you will notice that it’s actually made up of joined squares and the curvature was merely an illusion your brain supplied as a representation of reality.
>>16477871>he believes in the law of excluded middle
>>16477883Indeed, ideas such as Nihilism would be laughed at by sciencetards who are all religious and mentally ill schizophrenics.
>>16478034If you don't think randomness exists, then why do you reject determinism?
>>16477871free will is an emergent property from the structure of the brain
>>16487316no such thing as free will
>>16477871>how is it not caused by anything but also not random?It is caused by the person making the choice.>how does it escape either having causes or not having them?It does have causes, and the causes are part of the person making the choice.Determinism is incoherent theological nonsense. I don't believe in determinism for the same reason I don't believe in god.There will always be religious idiots though.
