Which way, white man?
python is awfulmatlab is 100 times more awfulat least you don't have to pay for python. matlab is dead at this point, there is absolutely no reason to use it.
>>16536372
>>16536408what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>16536408Based Excelchad.
>>16536475anything microdick is instantly blacklisted in my bookand you are a (baby duck)^2 for first learning windows dogshit and the thinking a spreadsheet is an appropriate tool for everything.
I have both but I'm usually drawn to Python. MATLAB makes nicer graphs though.
>>16536396whats awful about them?>>16536372matlab for now
>>16536396really? using matplotlib makes me want to kill myself>at least you don't have to pay for pythonhttps://rutracker.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6355478
>>16536372Julia
>>16536528>matlab for nowi strongly advise that you reconsider.you are almost certainly a student right now, meaning you get a license to matlab provided for you as part of a deal that mathworks has negotiated with your institution.as soon as you leave school, you will have to pay for your own license to continue using what you have gotten used to, which is extremely expensive.moreover, research is to be shared, and requiring a license to share code is an artificial barrier.in addition, because mathworks is a private company, if you find bugs in their (compiled) code, there is very little chance that mathworks will do anything to fix it. i almost had a 15M$ project sunk at the last moment because their UDP library is broken and would drop 99% of network packets that the OS was delivering to it. mathworks response was "lol, it's an unreliable protocol, so technically it works!"the only industry that actually uses matlab is aerospace for simulink, which is a shame, but that's about the only reason i can think of to continue to use matlab outside of school.>whats awful about them?i could write a manifesto about why matlab is terrible. the above points are the most practical. however, if you do any amount of serious programming, you'll quickly find out that the design of the matlab language works against you almost every step way, and strongly encourages antipatterns that make you less effective at software development. this becomes a huge problem if matlab is the first programming language you get exposed to because you pick up all sorts of dogshit habits.anyway, one example i can give you is that writing quality matlab code requires pre-optimization, which is a known antipattern. this is required because you must vectorize looped code, because matlab is terrible at processing loops. since everything is a multidimensional array, you then pack unrelated data into the same array and refer to field by index rather than a name...
I'm not reading all that lil' timmy
>>16536549>as soon as you leave school, you will have to pay for your own license literally just torrent it for personal use, it's effortless>design of the matlab language works against you almost every step way, and strongly encourages antipatterns that make you less effective at software developmentthat's the whole point, scripted "antipatterns" lend themselves better to scientific research than autistic OOP or even dogmatically functional programming. It's not a product made for codemonkeys, and I say that as an engineer who mostly works with python.>you must vectorize looped code, because matlab is terrible at processing loopsand in exchange you get effortlessly vectorized code and parallelized loops (parfor), that compete with C++ perfin scientific applications. Frankly I've found much better numerical libraries built into matlab than in Cpp Boost.
>>16536408>python embedded into ExcelGreat feature but too bad you have to pay for that shit after your use up your free tokens.
...python has it's own share of serious problems, but they are less serious.the main problem with python is that it presents advanced data structures as basic types. this might sound ok at first, but it's a terrible to drop these concepts on to a person that doesn't appreciate their nuances. the result is a lot of dogshit code using the wrong choice of types because many support the same functions, but have wildly different computation complexities, both in time and space (which python gobbles down like OP gobbles dicks). good luck trying to explain to a n00b why mutable vs. unmutable types exist in the language. also, good luck trying to do basic shit like manipulate strings and bytes, man o man is that a cluster fuck.not only that, but the global interpreter lock cripples the language for any high performance computing. one ends up patching the problems baked into python by resorting to C and C++ libraries to do things not allowed in python proper. in these situations, personally, the benefits of python do not outweigh the effort needed to bridge the languages, and i'd rather just develop in pure C or C++.however, i'm willing to at least recommend python to the uninitiated because it's free, has a huge active community (so packages are constantly being updated to fix bugs and extend functionality), is popular so there are lots of examples, and people seem to feel comfy with it. moreover, it's the scripting language of choice for things like Blender (and more recently freecad?).between python and matlab, python+numpy is the way to go in 2025.
>>16536574somehow even worse than matlabenjoy your indecipherable single line programs that are 2000 characters longbtw, my grad adviser was quite famous for a little while, and a visualization of theirs found its way into some pop culture. mathematica contacted them shortly afterwards asking why the hell he didn't have a license for their software.
>>16536372Consider a third path
>>16536670No offense intended, but you should KYS yourself please. Best regards,Anon
I'm a compass and straight edge kinda guy
>>16536676bloat
>install matlab 2024b version>it just works and doesn't mess up with other programs>try to install python>sometimes you need and specific version, it's hard to maintain, updates are fucking terrible to handle, you have to create several """"""environments"""""" to not fucking break shit up>and matplotlib fucking sucksYeah I'm sticking with pirated matlab
>>16536574I'm no corpo bootlicker but goddamn their DE Solver BTFOs the competition so much it's unreal
>>16536549i use matlab for prototyping new algorithms. why would i care about how slow my for loops are?
>>16536743This, but I get free matlab at work. I used to use python but I got a fucking aneurysm everytime I had to set it up>remember x package works with 3.8.x then use wheels for y package so doesn't interfere with z.>want to use it in vscode? how about your systempath and the jupyter notebook kernel, might as well get a million vscode addons>don't you want different environments for different types of work? add venv on to the mess... but there's also virtualenv cause the community cant agree on anything, oh OR you could use Conda to get a fake MATLAB all in one experience but it's just bloat piled on more shitvs matlab>download, install, I can do my job
>>16536826Sounds like a skill issue. You'd be helpless in C++
>>16536826>This, but I get free matlab at work.that's what every imbecile i've met saysi'm glad i was able to get most people in my lab to move away from matlab, it only took 5 years for them to see the light
>>16536829>You'd be helpless in C++I wrote C++ in Unreal Engine 4 for 2 years professionally>Sounds like a skill issueI choose where to put my effort
>>16536372fuck that matlab syntax
>>16536835I'm proud of you anon. Keep up the good work. Still, Matlab seems categorically inferior to Python in all dimensions, thoughbeit.
>>16536850thanks. I generally hate using both. Thats why I switched from software to electrical engineering. fuck coding
>>16536859Fair enough. I usually hear the inverse, electrical engineers becoming software engineers. Whatever works for you. We need people building real shit.
>>16536372Matlab if you are in an engineering program, otherwise Python
>>16536408For reasonably small and a bit disorganized data there's just nothing better in terms of speed. You won't finish googling the intricacies of pandas in your specific case when I'll finish the job already, after having seen and edited wonky data by eye.
>>16536930
>>16536931I see you never encountered new shitty data and a lot of diverse analysis tasks appearing on the fly. Excel had been my goto instrument for many years. You do some python scripts for repetitive stuff but for every single use situation it's just inefficient.
>>16536574Used this shit constantly when I was in grad school - it's great for comp phys and it's still the best when it comes to making great, professional-looking figures for publications - but it's the Macromedia Flash of its time; the cracked versions are unreliable and a legit version costs more than the people who would make the most use of it can afford. You either luck out and get a job at an institution that has a site license, or you deal with the shitty crack.
>>16536670>>16536574>>16536408>>16536372I hate all of this shit. Except python, I just moderately dislike python.
>>16536955>the cracked versions are unreliableNo they aren't, it's easier to pirate it than matlab even, and wolfram alpha queries work lel
>>16536396fpbp
>>16536486you are a retard
MATLAB: everything works out of box. Including links to other programs like COMSOLPython: from open source tinkerers to open source tinkerers
>>16536955>it's still the best when it comes to making great, professional-looking figures for publications
>>16536938I get you. Python is great, but I had to run my code across 47 differently formatted sources. I gave up on trying to be smart after seeing yet another 'someone used this schema 40 years ago so we stick with it' data set. Waste an hour to figure it out with grep-awk-sed combo for each of those or just import it to LO Calc and do it manually wasn't exactly a tough decision.
I used C++, python and MATLAB in university courses, each to a very limited extent.During my PhD I used MATLAB because that's what the group used. Afterwards I moved to python because I didn't want to pay. Everything I do is basic shit on the level of read data from input files, process data with various ways, generate plots/output files. My coding skills are pure ass, I don't know what complexity is and whether my piece of shit takes 0.1 or 10 seconds to run is inconsequential. For this level of usage it really doesn't matter, anything above an abacus is useable, python enables me to just import the solution and MATLAB usually has it already built in or at least available in a toolbox.
>>16537434>I moved to python because I didn't want to payThat's what pirating is for.
>>16537467faggots that lock themselves into proprietary technology (even by pirating it) promote shit software ecosystems
>>16537434what about gnu octave
>>16537530it's even worse than matlab, but at least it's free.whenever i've programmed matlab, i generally made sure that the program will also work in octave so i can distribute it to people and be sure they can actually run it. the implementation is pretty bad, though, and it is very slow.
>>16536408Keyed Boomer. Real engineers just whatever they're most familiar with, regardless of whether or not it's the most efficient.
>>16537904you'd never get past counting on your fingers if this were true
>>16537909Tools aren't as important as what you know or what you do with those tools.
>>16537911and you aren't gonna make a precision watch with a club
>>16537915Take it easy on the strawman, we need the crops.
>>16537921choosing the right tool for the job is part of competency.try wrenching on your car with only a wrench. sure, you'll be able to do some things, but without that tire twaddler it's going to go badly.
>>16537925Sure. And when you can reach the same result a million different ways, the right tool is the one you're the most familiar with or the easiest one to use.
>>16537530Try Scilab
>>16536547Only good take.I asked a friend of mine on some info on Julia and replaced a Python library I was using for my thesis with my own code that was 100x faster. Thank God for static allocation.
>>16536372Matlab for numericalMathematica for symbolic>>16536547Julia is appealing but I never felt a strong need to switch.
>>16536372Everything is happening in Python nowIt's the language of AI and scientific computingThere's no reason to use Matlab for new code now except contrarianism
>>16536408TPBP/thread
i'd say up front, matlab is more convenient, but longterm you're gonna want python because some library like numpy or w/e will be maintained far more easily
>>16538495Or if you're working on really fucked constrained optimization problems. Matlab does still have a lot more tricks up its sleeve with constrained minimization than scipy/optim.ml handle well.
>>16536372You're all a bunch of faggots
>>16538920This, only midwits don't reinvent the wheel for their thesis.
>>16538920i'm a hardened C advocate, but when working in teams you sometimes have to bend over backwards to give your badass C code an interface your colleagues will actually use.
>>16538925They're called libraries. Python is for people who choose not to understand how a computer works, so they will make assumptions about it that are wrong.https://www.vice.com/en/article/a-code-glitch-may-have-caused-errors-in-more-than-100-published-studies/
>>16538929Guess what?https://docs.python.org/3/extending/extending.html
>>16538936>Python is for people who choose not to understand how a computer worksCniles actually believe this kek
>>16538939i've made plenty of python interfaces for my C libraries in the past, because when you are doing actual systems programming python just doesn't cut it performance wise.>>16538947i have yet to meet a pyfag that does
>>16538954>i have yet to meet a pyfag that doesWell now you have, and I can tell from the way you talk that you're just a larpfag anyway
>>16538957wtf, i love pyfags now and was totally wrong about their incompetence
>>16538947I'd rather be Cnile than a not-c.
>>16536372[spoiler]neither[/spoiler]
>>16536673What's wrong with it?>t. clueless
>>16539082Its Haskell for autistic children
>>16536372matlab is a commercial software that runs on Java.Nothing can ever make me want to use anything Java. Java is the digital Satan
>>16536573python is garbage, but there is nothing better to hack together a poorly thought out script that does the one thing you want to do right now
>>16539114from my decade of experience doing lab work, that "poorly thought out script that does the one thing you want to do right now" quickly becomes the defacto standard REAL quick
>>16539112This is literally not true. Only the visual environment and user interface are written in Java. All of the core services and backend are written in a mix of C, C++ and Fortran. It's only the visualization and GUI that use Java in any capacity.
>>16536396this
>>16539373This is value-added
>>16539373blame the people who are too lazy to just make their own new thing
>>16536547Based answer. Julia but there's also R I guess. Matlab sucks cock and Python is bleh.
>>16536547>>16537971>>16537965>>16539752>Juliahttps://archive.yuri.is/not-julia/
>>16536372Julia and Mathematica are both superior.
>>16536483it's the truth.I am an autistic python nerd and I spend decades making beautiful plots in matplotlib, but my collaborator just does everything in excel or with quick matlab scripts if excel can't do it, and he publishes 17x as much as me. The graphs look okay and nobody reads our papers anyways. I just can't do it because of autism.
matplotlib + scipy + pandas is the trifecta. it does 99.9% of what matlab does and is built on a scripting language that is actually useful.
>>16539844>pandascancer>matplotlibautism>scipyirrelevant
>>16539930blas and cublas underlies all performance linear algebra software, whatever high level api you are using to call it is a matter of taste
