The surface is a radioactive wasteland, but could life actually exist underneath the ice? If so, what might it look like? Is 'muh liquid water' just cope?
>>16543773believe in religion and you'll come to realize that spiritual lifeforms already exist everywhere in the universe
>>16543774Go tell /x/ all about it my friend
>>16543775im gonna guess you believe your grandparents were monkeys and that you are a tiny meat machine in the skull
>>16543778Legit question: why are you on the science and math board if you’re just gonna spew whatever the DMT entities told you? You hippies are 100x more cringe than any fedora-tipper
>>16543779because science is about knowledge, and im delivering you knowledge
>>16543786Science is about what you can prove, and ‘I took 200mg of DMT’ isn’t a source. The question asked was specifically about Europa and the possibility of life there, which you answered with something completely irrelevant. Fuck off with your hippie bullshit back to /x/
>>16543792>Science is about what you can proveCorrect, and to prove something you need to observe something first.The fact that people can observe spiritual beings during DMT trips prove that they're real.
>>16543799You're retarded.
>>16543799You know why they call DMT a ‘hallucinogen’, right? The funniest thing is, I’m a God fearing Christian. Online atheists are as annoying to me as everyone else. What annoys me even more, however, are pseudo-philosophers who think they’re privy to divine knowledge that they did nothing to earn except the 20 bucks it cost them to buy whatever drugs it is they took. God alone decides his prophets, not you. The only ‘spiritual entity’ I care for is the Lord. I’m telling you guys take it back to /x/ because they would lap it right up.I’m here for scientific knowledge, not for some drug-addled heathen to tell me about ‘duh spirits, man.’
>>16543799For as-yet-unexplained reasons, DMT can cause a lot of people to have similar hallucinations. It doesn't prove anything is real. Some people have tried to study and test the beings they encounter during DMT trips, and found that they can't provide any information that the person didn't already know. Whatever is going on there, it's happening within a single person's mind, not connecting them to a spirit realm or whatever.
>>16543817You believe in God, yet you deny the existence of spiritual beings, that makes you hypocritical at best, bigoted at worst.>>16543810An insult is not an argument, go somewhere else, maybe someone will humor your back-and-forth tantrums.
>>16543819Here's something, you can't measure dreams with scientific tools nor capture them in a video, does that make them nonexistent? Think.
>>16543822>you believe in God, yet you deny the existence of vague ‘spiritual lifeforms’ that ‘exist everywhere in the universe’ which clearly is not a reference to the Biblical GodEven ignoring the obvious retardation in your argument here, I have consciously decided not to engage in a discussion about how real these ‘lifeforms’ are, because, like I said, that’s a discussion better suited for /x/. I have made it very clear that I don’t care for any of it here, because this is completely irrelevant to what this thread, and by extension this board, is about.
>>16543833>N-no i don't want to argue, i just think you're an idiot alright?That's pathetic behavior, not that I would expect anything less from you though.Have a nice day mr.holier than thou
>>16543839See, you finally get it. I don’t want or need to argue with heathens such as yourself. Now that you’re going, someone might actually talk about Europa. Have a blessed day, and repent.
>>16543823No, but you can remember the things that happen in dreams and deduce whether or not they included information that wasn't already in your mind.With a larger sample size of DMT trippers reporting on their experiences, it would probably become pretty clear that they are not connecting to anything outside of themselves. Some % of DMT users also report seeing completely unique things that have nothing to do with the "elves" or anything in common with other people's trips
>>16543773>the surface is a radioactive wastelandWhat. Sir, those are glaciers.
>>16543792>Science is about what we can proveHoly shit you're retarded.99% of actual science is trying to demonstrate something everyone else is claiming to be impossible to actually be possible.
>>16544079Frozen oceans and glaciers aren't the same thing.
>>16544188In other words, proving shit. Retard.
>>16543773>could life actually exist underneath the ice?If Europa does in fact have a liquid ocean 10-12 miles below the ice, and geothermal activity caused by its' orbit with Jupiter, than there's a distinct possibility Europa could have life around its' hydrothermal vents.>what might it look like?Colourful chemoautotrophic bacteria, worms, tubes, tube-worms, shrimp, crabs, bivalves, *maybe* fish, but that's a big maybe. Hydrothermal vents can be quite rich in life.
>>16543773It's certainly worth sending a probe to find out.
>>16544412We'd just end up seeding it with invasive tardigrades.
>>16544576the radiation on the surface will sterilize anything reaching landing on it. Pointless anyway as good luck piercing the ice sheet with current proves and their extremely limited weights>>16544367>multicellular life on europayeah that aint going to happen. even on earth it took most of its existence for single cells to reach that power level. and earth is a cosmic garden of edenmaybe, if extremely lucky, some very simplistic single cells by the thermal vents. other unknown is also the acidity of the oceanic water which is another hazard for any fledgling life
>>16544367i don't think there's any reason to assume true multicellular life. as amazing as earth is, it still took billions of years to get there.
>>16544702>the radiation on the surface will sterilize anything reaching landing on itPretty sure spores can easily survive that
>>16543773giant squids or octopus most likely
>>16545033>it still took billions of years to get thereHow much time has the hypotetical life on Europa had?
>>16543773The short answer is we have no idea and will need to go there and check.I think the odds are low seeing nearly all life on earth is dependant on the sun but it's not impossible geothermal vents are providing energy to a Europan ecosystem.
Europa alien here. Fuck off, we are full. We don't need or want your smelly jeets.
>>16545992The life we know uses the sun because the sun is available to it. That's like saying life can't survive without grass, because you grew up on a farm all the cows eat grass. The deepest core samples ever drilled still show endoliths living in them. Life is fucking everywhere, and just evolves to take advantage of whatever is around. There is probably life on Mars, on the moon, on Europa, on Jupiter, on Pluto, and on dust in interstellar space.
this board is so fucking gone, just look at this thread
>>16543773>If so, what might it look like?Most likely, unicellular/colonial anaerobes. Complex life on earth didn't start showing up until the end of the oxygen holocaust (~500mya, cambrian), once there was plenty of high energy poison gas to exploit for energy
>>16546265What is wrong with this thread? This is a pretty good thread.
>>16545033Europa is the same age as Earth. Life there has had just as long to evolve.
>>16546241If there's life on the moon, where is it, and why haven't we detected it yet?
>>16543773It's possible, but a 'bit' too cold, so they'd need to have something to keep them warm.There may be in Venus.
>>16546397 We know next to nothing about Europa. We have never landed there.
>>16543773>Could there be actual life here?Yes. Life may have developed on Europa near "Europa"-thermal vents at the bottom of its ocean(s) underneath the ice.
not a chance. Our definition of life is anthrocentric and a fluke chemical reaction unique to our planet
>>16546777>>16546270>>16545992>>16545033>>16544702This is all, of course, assuming that life has to be made from scratch on every planet. That might not be the case. NASA's Europa Clipper could arrive on Europa in the next 4 years, drill a big hole, find hypothetical life, take samples, and that life may end up being (very) distinctly related to life on Earth. Spermatogenesis might be the canon, at least in our own system. Every Martian, Venusian, Terran, and Europan, might all share the same First Universal Ancestral Cells. We don't know, but I'm sure as shit excited to find out (it's on my personal bucket list of "questions I want Science to answer before I die").
>>16546804Europa Clipper doesn't have a drill.
>>16546241My point is there were vast areas of earth where life could start and have readily available energy from the sun.On Europa life would need to form in what is likely a tiny percentage of the surface where active vents provide energy.
>>16547142The sun is most likely hostile towards abiogenesis. Its very hard to evolve to make use of it. Hydrothermal vents are a better tutorial zone.
