>undergrad researchhow fake is it?
i enjoyed introducing ugrads to the lab and helping them do some work, but even the most talented one completely failed to convince me of anything they concluded based on their experiments
>>16552979Undergrads in my physics department were always given projects that were considered too menial and tedious even by PhD standards. It’s not fake. Just extremely inconsequential.
>>16552986sounds like most academics
>>16552979Undergrads in my lab are monkies that do menial tasks I don't want to do. They contribute to my research, but only though the sweat of their brow.
>>16553008what consequential research did the phds carry out? tell me all about their incredibly important consequences, impress me
>>16553169one guy in my group wrote a whole routine for reconstructing particle tracks using ML. Very useful stuff that got picked up by CERN because it saves a bunch of processing power. An undergrad cannot do something like that in 2-3 years while being bogged down by undergrad requirements.
>>16552979>write bachelors thesis>realize nobody cares about bachelors thesis>write masters thesis>realize nobody cares about masters thesis>write phd>realize nobody cares about phd thesis>write paper>realize like 5 people on earth care, and that includes me and my mother
>>16553721The career of a midwit academic whose research topics are not X + deep learning
>>16553723>midwit>as opposed to an ML griftersaar logic
>>16553768No, they're midwits too, but get more attention
>>16552979I'm a fourth-year undergrad who's published two first-authors (in good journals) and a few mid-authors, but I got really lucky and came into the lab with five years of experience with certain techniques that, while necessary to the research, most people in the lab knew nothing about, so virtually every paper that made it out of the lab needed work from me. Plus I got to de facto head a whole research direction so that was cool.But others in my cohort are just redoing the same experiments for two years, so ymmv
>>16554151>experimentsEnjoy working as an engineer with nobody remembering your name after you're done with your phd
>>16554176people that shit on experiment are worse than useless for any endevour
>>16554176Anon I do theory and computations for an experimental group. You're a retard.>>16554189True.
>>16554151You might think it's cool now but you better get used to people taking credit for your work anon. I wrote a paper as an undergrad too. I came up with the topic, did all the theory, coded a numerical simulation, and wrote the paper. I didn't talk to my advisor until after the paper was written and he only gave me some advice correcting typos. His name was on the paper, and everyone else assumed he did everything and I did a coding project at his direction.This experience has repeated for me to various extents throughout my masters, PhD, and now as a postdoc.
>>16554218>Anon I do theory and computations for an experimental group.Then you know most experimentalists could be replaced by monkeys.
>>16554229So long as I get into a good PhD program I'm not as concerned about it now. I definitely maintain close documentation and keep as much open-source and under my name as possible for now. Presenting at conferences also helps as I'm starting to become a recognizable face among the bigger researchers in my specific field.My PI has been more than gracious in making sure I get as much recognition as possible for the work I've been doing and has been a great mentor so far. I don't think he's been taking credit he doesn't deserve.
>>16554240Well it sounds like you are in a better situation than I was or am. When you get into your PhD program pick your advisor wisely. Sometimes the biggest names are not the best choices. Good luck to you
>>16554252Bless you anon. Good luck to you too.
>>16553658>Very useful stuff that got picked up by CERN because it saves a bunch of processing poweri dont believe you. I dont believe theres any need for any new algorithm for processing particle physics data, or that any novel or useful algorithm can be cooked by an undergrad. You are just repeating second hand myths. Saves a bunch of processing power? Sure.. how much processing power? Compared to what? How many gygacyles per kilowatt are saved, huh? Thought so.
>>16554151what were those techniques if you wish to answer
>>16553658how is that useful? what concrete developments did it lead to?
>>16554285>I dont believe theres any need for any new algorithm for processing particle physics dataThere are literal petabytes of data that need to be processed at the LHC. Anything is an improvement.>or that any novel or useful algorithm can be cooked by an undergradThat’s a reading comprehension problem on your part. I was talking about a PhD student’s thesis.
>>16554475>Anything is an improvement.I dont believe some undergrad improved anything for the LHC>>16554475>. I was talking about a PhD student’s thesis.Same shit. No one in your group improved anything at the LHC
>>16554480Why exactly and no walkarounds is the key to figure out what it is
>>16554285Why don't you go eat some castor beans.
it's completely fake it's the new bullshit that professors push to get you to be the perfect goyim then steal your ideaundergrads were never supposed to do research period. unless you are bill gates and start writing an israeli OS 24/7.. which is not a fair expectation to a socialized education system.. because the whole point is to kill savants and drink their bloodturn around and walk away, I did it and got nothingand they mutilated my dick at birththey will take everything from youyou are all liars and thieves
>>16554480>I dont believe some undergrad improved anything for the LHCbecause you can’t fucking read for the life of you apparently >Same shit.You also never went to grad school it seems.
>>16554475i'm a grad student who works closely with a group that very well might be in collaboration with yours. i have seen firsthand the complete lack of finesse with which experimental particle physicists tend to treat high-precision data. whatever works works until it no longer does, and tbqhon a bunch of undergrads or first-/second-year phd students are the perfect monkeys to put on the job.
>>16554516kek yes, that’s an issue I’m not going to argue with. But what did you expect from physicstards? Have you seen the absolute clusterfuck that is ROOT?
>>16554502>You also never went to grad school it seems.I got a masters and then i left physics, as is the case with most students. I had average grades and not good enough to be a professor or a good researcher, but i have seen the fews good ones go on to do absolutely nothing. The hallmark of success in this profession is to get a coveted chair in a prestigious institution and then do nothing as the king of donothings.Physics as a whole is a dead and stagnant field and no one is developing anything. No one in your group improved anything at the LHC.
>>16554529>as is the case with most studentsmust be either a yuro thing or a shit school in the US because the top ones literally don’t offer masters programs, only phds.>Physics as a whole is a dead and stagnant field and no one is developing anythingHighly depends on the field. HEP theory is pretty much humanities tier at this point but something like AMO is alive and well.>No one in your group improved anything at the LHC.Keep seething, bro. Sorry you didn’t attend a good school lol.
>>16554529>Physics as a whole is a dead and stagnant field and no one is developing anythingWhich is why I think it's a good thing physics programs are starting to encourage students to apply physics techniques to other fields.Shit, biophysics is just moderately talented physics and math students picrelling to seasoned experimental biologists and getting cell papers out of it.
>>16554534>Sorry you didn’t attend a good school lol.You only prove what i said. Most people will not go to a top school because by definition of what the top is. Are you so fucking stupid to know that 100% cannot be 1%?Most people that graduate from top schools do not become researchers at to schools, they get recycled by lower level universities or move to China where they are expanding their universtities. People that are extremely good at physics can still make it even if they come from lowly universities, and compensate with sheer talent.But they still do nothing.Its a similar situation with engineers, 75% of which will never work in a serious way in their own profession.In any case, i dodged a bullet by leaving the field after my masters. The rest of my class went through 10 years of agonizing begging for PhD positions, post docs, associates in random places. They will do anything for a buck and pretty much discover absolutely nothing. Some cope by saying they are cogs in a machine that is still doing important things, that they are part of a group, that they once talked to Witten.
>>16554529computational physics is big dick energy and there's money to be madethe computational power available in 2025 is unprecedenteda good physicists knows physics, mathematics, electronics, and computer science
>>16554578Von Neumann was sooooo right
>>16554578Got any more simulations?
>>16554574We get it, it’s sour grapes for you. No need to write paragraphs of seethe about it.
most of it isn't "real" researchthey're typically small and trivial projects to give you the experience of working on and completing a project independentlyif it is good research they usually worked in a lab for the person who did all the thinking
>>16553721>>16553723You got it wrong. You should have topic that is popular and new but not that popular
>>16554151How do you have five years of experience as a fourth year undergrad
>>16552979I got more out of college doing undergrad research than I ever did sitting in a class listening to lectures every week and taking a test on it. I felt like I got my moneys worth actually doing shit and learning how to read/write journals.
>>16554690Five years experience by the time I joined the lab as a second-year undergrad. This would be my seventh year.Worked as a sysadmin intern for an HPC cluster from sophomore year and did research in a big-name lab in a field adjacent to the one I'm in that focused heavily on high-throughput computing. Two national conferences and a preprint before prom, but not without significant guidance and multiple weeks' worth of skipping class to go to the lab and self-study. Almost didn't graduate high school for this reason.Took a slight hiatus my first year of college to explore other fields of research, take more formal stats/math/scientific computing courses, and build up my github but i ultimately returned to my previous work and have stuck with it since. I do love the field and couldn't imagine anything else I could convince myself to spend 80 hours a week on.I'll caveat by saying that I'm very fortunate and a lot of stars aligned these past few years.
>>16553122Funny, because you sound like a PhD yourself, then you should know you only exist as a trained monkey to advance your PI's career.
>>16554690>five years of experience with certain techniquesmy nigger sucks a mean dick
>>16552979jesus, i can't tell if that's ciemas or not. i don't think it is, but...
>>16554704No offense, but grindcels like you are the reason why the undergrad application process is so miserable nowadays. Every time I read about what high schoolers have to do to get into a good college, I feel like I caught the last helicopter out of Saigon.
>>16554728what high schoolers don't get is that most schools are interchangeable on an undergrad educational level. there's no shame in going to state.there's also no shame in not going to college
>>16554606>We get it, it’s sour grapes for youIm sure you will totally revolutionize physics if you propose some twist in an ML model that will totally increase speed by 0.2% (as member of a multinational 78 person team)
>>16554730>most schools are interchangeable on an undergrad educational leveIn terms of education yes, for networking no. If you went to an ivy league you could meet the next Jeffrey Epstein
>>16554728On the contrary. I sacked my undergrad admissions because research was way more interesting and I had zero executive function. I had an awful GPA and no teachers to write letters of rec so I ended up at some low-tier state school. Things are going much better now but I would definitely have balanced things out and tried for a school with better resources and faculty.
>>16554735why i said most.that being said, the best networking comes from graduate school, where you absolutely want to be selective about your institution
>>16554736Not the worst thing to happen. Most of those state schools have some interesting research projects to join.>>16554732I'm in a computational field so all of my work is done on a laptop. What is it like working on one of those mega projects in physics/engineering? Does it feel more fulfilling than the small scale stuff?
>>16554732Even more sour grapes. A contribution is a contribution, anon. Nobody needs to be the next Dirac to contribute to their field.>>16554736College admissions in America are a total circus show where you have to play the cards right and that’s it. That’s why so many Jews and East Asians excel at it. They love these Talmudic games.
>>16554502If something at LHC has been improved then it would have started pumping out useful, meaningful discoveries. Since it continues instead to be completely useless that shows conclusively that no improvements have been made.
>>16554747That’s not how science works, you absolute mong. Nature doesn’t care that your measurement apparatus got 3% more accurate. There’s no contractual obligation for it to show you anything. And the LHC produces plenty of research to this day, but you don’t know about it because Rachel Goldberg, the science journalist, doesn’t write popular articles about it.
I did undergrad research with a CS and a pure math professor>CS research: constant experimentation, no theory at all. Got two papers published.>Math research: just reading a textbook and doing exercises. No publishing pressure.The CS research was complete BS, I published two papers as first author in the best conference in the field without knowing a thing about what I was doing. Made me a bit jaded with experimental science.
>>16554863Did you move onto a PhD?
>>16554887Still an undergrad, but I will graduate this year around July. Unsure if I will go for a pure math PhD or become a code monkey (in industry, not in academia that's for certain)
>>16552979>how fake is it?be jewishgo to patent bureau for soviet science or look for soviet logarithm research book.take one from 60-70steal it and project on todays technologiessell it as ownyou got not the quantum computer and AI engine.pretend you are genius when talking nonsenserepeat each 5-6 years.
