>>154558999
It is based, but modern business ruins it quite a bit. But it’s still worth it all in all. There is pro/rel proposal in the US soccer system, albeit not in the MLS, isn’t it? I thought the USL was planning on that. Your big sports will obviously never consider it

Also, checked

Dont be, At the top level it sucks there is too much money involved and it creates a big gap between the bigger teams and the ones that get relegated every couple of years. Your NFL setup is so much better, players can become local heros because the pay is the same. Relegation tiers should go up to the 2d division and the top tier should be locked up with shared income.

>>154559362
>Your NFL setup is so much better, players can become local heros because the pay is the same.
I think the opposite is true, if you're not good enough to make a team you simply won't play at all, the Jamie vardy of the NFL is probably a roofer that had to give up because he couldn't get drafted

>>154559262
>the USL was planning on that
just a carrot dangle, they'll never actually do it since USL is MLS-lite, the owners are too corporate to chance losing money

Pro/rel is a meme, every relevant club can outspend it

>>154558999
>euros could have had meaningful promotion with the superleague
>chose not to
hmmm

>>154559393
the only reason there's any market for non-top flight soccer is because it's your only sport, there's too much competition for sports here and our equivalent of the lower leagues is the superior college system

>>154559785
>super league
>meaningful promotion

>>154559785
Most sports here have promotion/relegation, but only two have 2nd tiers that are fully professional. You don't need a market when there's plenty of people who are willing to play just for fun in the lower leagues.
But our country is tiny, yours is massive.You could easily support multiple fully professional tiers for all of the major league sports.

>>154559393
You missread what I said
Someone like a Rodgers and Allen can stay at Greenbay and Buffalo because they still get a lot of money

>>154559785
>it's your only sport
WRONG
There's a good chance the footy goat is a rugger bugger

This is not going fix very much and I much prefer having dedicated minor leagues where players can develop. Baseball, hockey, basketball, and football have several tiers players can play in professionally or semi-professionally.

>>154560015
>yours is massive
That's actually a negative for this topic. Baseball has lower leagues. The top lower level averages attendances of like 5000 people per game, and is split into two regional leagues, both of which are actually split in half again internally. So, at what is most comparable to a second division, the country is basically split in quarters. Despite that, teams regularly have to travel 1,500+ km. Could a second division Swedish team play a home game in Stockholm, then play in Rijeka, then play in Paris, then play two games back in Stockholm before a game in Moscow? Where the best attendance was 7,500 people? The U.S. is just too physically large for a real pyramid because the second division would have to have ten regional divisions to not have multiple teams going bankrupt a year.

>>154561494
this, yuros are tiny countrylets

>>154559785
>because it's your only sport
More people in the UK watch the darts world championship final than people in the US watch the NHL finals. That is total people, not even proportional to population. Proportionally more people watch it than the NBA and MLB finals, and darts isn't even our second biggest sport.

>>154559362

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>>154561494
Distance is a negative, yes, but population is a positive. You have literally hundreds of cities large enough to have a team with a +10k attendance, that they usually don't whereas cities of the same size in Europe do is just an indication of how unappealing lower leagues are without pro/rel.
Also, see picrelated. If Russia is able to have a functioning pyramid with more territory and less people then so are you.

>>154559785
do americans really think other countries only play footie
we have volley, basket, field hockey and rugby leagues all with promotion/relegation, on top of football of course

>>154570470
>If Russia is able to have a functioning pyramid with more territory and less people then so are you
Have you ever looked at a population density map of Russia? Like 80% of their population lives in the south west. Their first division has all but two teams very clustered together in a quarter of the country. Yeah, the country is huge, but they aren't anywhere near as widely distributed as the U.S is. None of the other truly massive countries have the same distribution - China, Canada, Australia, Brazil all have very densely population core areas and then 60% of the land mass literally doesn't even have something you would actually call a city. India is probably the closest comparison in terms of widely distributed population in a large country, and they can barely keep their top division running with the right number of clubs.

>You have literally hundreds of cities large enough to have a team with a +10k attendance, that they usually don't whereas cities of the same size in Europe do is just an indication of how unappealing lower leagues are without pro/rel.
The league average attendance of your counterexample is under 4,000 people, which is even less than AAA baseball.

I watch mostly American sports but they really are designed for maximum misery. No shitter teams who are just happy to survive in the league and with 30+ teams the vast majority practically never get to see their team succeed

>>154571600
?? we have SIGNIFICANTLY superior parity than soccer does

>>154558999
>isthmian
sounds like a gay israeli

>>154572174
Leafs haven't won in 60 years

>>154572625
the vast majority of clubs in your relevant leagues have never won anything in the past several decades

>>154572646
since 2000 there have been 9 different winners, and the league has consisted of 12 teams for most of those years

>>154572681
not in bundes
not in leliga
not in the EPL
not in the french league
probably not in the italian league either

>>154572701
what the fuck is any of that

>>154572705
Those are called the top leagues of soccer.

>>154572710
I had to ask chatgpt and french league is actually pretty close to NHL. 44% of NHL has won since 2000 and 39% of the french soccer league

>>154558999
>I'm jealous that the highest aspirations of most Europeans is that their guys can some day become the punching bag of teams that actually win titles for a few years before getting kicked back down
pass

>>154572777
this

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>>154572742
>cherrypicking the highest
that's not even correct anyway, you have to count EVERY team that EVER played, you can't divide it by 18, you must choose every team who ever played.

count of any team who won one isn't enough anyway, you need to use something like HHI or gini coefficient
i'm calculating this now

>>154572818
ever played in that timeframe*
so if fc poopensharten got promoted for one year, they are part of the caluclation

>>154572818
Why? Being promoted in the first place means you pretty much won a cup

>>154572854
because the pool of teams who actually had a theoretical chance to win it in that timeframe is significantly larger than the number of teams in the league

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this is just sheer monopolization not even taking into account the # of teams
even the tournament (CL) which the most parity is worse than every american sport, every domestic league is worse, sometimes much worse

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>>154572916
with the domestic leagues

>>154572777
relegation battles are kino though

>>154572884
It's still irrelevant for what I was talking about, you can have higher parity but still never see your team win because there's 32 of them in the league. Leafs not winning in 60 years is statistically not even that strange.

>>154572959
the NHL literally has the best parity of any league i checked
>>154572937

>>154572978
You're not even listening

>>154572937
Small side note there are 18-20 teams in football league but 38 in the NFL

>>154572985
yes statistically it could happen, but statistically the NHL is the best league for parity
i wasn't paying much attention because i was making these graphs

>>154573002
I wasn't even talking about parity. You could have a league with the highest most perfect parity but if your league consists of 1 million teams it's going to take 1 million years for your team to win

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>>154573029
Yes but in practice if you got sports-reincarnated as a random fan of a random team in a random sport your best chance to see a team win a championship would be to be reincarnated as an american sports fan of some type

The other problem that pro/rel creates is you have an eternal underclass and eternal upper class in the leagues which makes a decent % of the games dogshit where you know the winner or loser ahead of time

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>Watching FC Poopsharten 1882 move up into the big league

>>154573050
I know nothing about football but if it's random it would be unlikely you'd become a fan of many of those teams since they might have 1000 fans compared to other teams with 10 million fans

Also for many of those teams the "win" is promotion. You don't understand the concept of the relegation battles

>>154573071
so you are saying you knew ahead of time that leverkusen would have an undefeated season?

>>154573101
>Also for many of those teams the "win" is promotion. You don't understand the concept of the relegation battles
lower leagues literally don't matter and such a comparison would be made to things like minor league baseball or maybe college. only the top flight matters.
the top flight IS soccer

>>154573113
>something unlikely happened so now math isn't real

>>154573125
so a decent % of the games are not predictable.

>>154573118
What are you even talking about, you don't think a college hockey team (hypothetically) making it into the NHL while relegation a 50 year old team wouldn't be a cause for celebration and memes? Even if they don't have any expectations of winning the cup

>>154573145
are you just pivoting because i mathematically proved how significantly worse the top flight (the only part of soccer anyone cares about) is compared to american sports in parity ? Nobody cares about the lower leagues. Nobody.

>>154573158
If that's your argument you're just wrong, promotion/relegation is sometimes even more fun than the cup

>>154573187
fun yes probably
but 99.9% of people watching soccer in europe are watching either the CL or one of those big 5 leagues

I would rather continue playing my rival year in and year out than leave them behind or even cast them into the Shadow Realm for an indefinite amount of time

>>154573071
Within one league there is usually enough parity for relegation fodder to pull off upsets against title contenders a couple of times per season.

>>154573194
Are you on drugs? I only watch hockey but promotion/relegation is a part of the biggest leagues

>>154573218
yes and the teams that get promoted get raped 90%+ of the time, even midtable teams have little to no chance

>>154573231
Not really? One team that was close to getting relegated won everything in 2017

>>154573259
>math proves european soccer is all top heavy
>respond with cherrypicking 1 in 100+ cases
really?

>>154573267
Why are you obsessed with soccer? I know nothing about it nor do I care

My point was 32 teams means your team is extremely unlikely to win regardless of parity. Leafs going 60 years without a cup is not even a statistically odd thing to happen

I think what's good about american sports is that the teams themselves do a lot of effort, like 80% of the effort comes from the actual team and maybe 20% from the fans, where in europe is the exact opposite, clubs do like 20% while the fans are doing 80% (singing, events, banners etc).

Dude some of the NFL team's youtube channels are freaking amazing. Following staff, looking into the nutrition of teams, recovery and training. American sports teams are MILES ahead of European organizations when it comes to content and social media shit.

European clubs will put out your regular run of the mill highlights every week and that's pretty much it. They're hard carried by fans writing chants, making stories, banners etc.

>>154559362
>it creates a big gap between the bigger teams and the ones that get relegated every couple of years
I said this exact same thing and bongs seethed at me and called me a fake fan

>>154573291
>Why are you obsessed with soccer?
because the threads about soccer pro/rel and i'm here to prove it's bad
>I know nothing about it nor do I care
you don't have to, the math could be about darts.
> Leafs going 60 years without a cup is not even a statistically odd thing to happen
every sport has its laughable losers. it doesn't disprove math

>>154573374
>and bongs seethed at me and called me a fake fan
its just a european/LATAM kneejerk reaction to americans criticizing soccer
if you posted it under a european flag they'd agree with it
soccer fandom is basically full of sunk costs because its their only sport

>>154573377
You obviously don't understand math since you don't weigh the parity against the sheer number of teams. If we pretend the Sabres win this year it might be another 50 years until they win again and most of their fans are either dead or insane like Steve Dangle

If you have the highest possible parity in a league with a million teams, it doesn't mean you can expect to see your team win. A toddler could understand this

>>154573402
i calculated this both as pure monopolization
>>154572937
>>154572916
and based on pool size
>>154573050

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A child can count the blocks and tell you which one has more blocks than the others and which blocks are bigger
>b-but one specific block isn't there
not an argument

>>154573416
Compare it to SHL instead, football/soccer means nothing to me, you could be making it all up

>>154572625
The leafs had a group that was talented enough to win a cup, they just choked a few times and now their window is probably closed unless their star player gets healthy again and the #1 overall pick they lucked into is way better than people expect.

Compare them to something like newcastle united, an obviously above average-sized club that is literally owned by the saudi arabian government. I don't think they have had a fair chance since kevin keegan said "I will love it if we beat them" before I was born

Amazed how the burgerposter is all around about muh percentage of winners and muh soccer.
Swedeanon is talking about yours spòrts are built around franchise and don't even try to brind a structure similiar at other sports with different division.
>Nobody care about.
That said too much about the perception of sport in your country.
>Muh College stronk
Imagine some college rape a franchise team and sending to a inferior category.

>>154573693
You're just mad i proved the EPL better than La Liga.
Why don't you take solace in the fact the CL is better than both?

>>154573050
Have you taken into account the fact that American sports end with a knockout competition which is inherently more variable? The closest analogy is either comparing US playoffs with domestic cup competitions, or comparing leagues with US conference positions.

>>154578650
True but that's just the nature of the game. I could do the FA cup but i'm not sure it's the same since it runs alongside the league (and biggest tournaments like the CL) so it's not even second fiddle, its third fiddle

>>154558999
I don't want this to be in pro sports but in college football getting some movement might be cool, like some D2 gets into D1.

>>154573231
Well the thing is that for football at least teams don't only have the league to play for.
For example the Premier League has the league, the FA Cup and the Carabao Cup, and the european competitions for whatever team classified last season. So a mid table team can actually win stuff from time to time even if it's not the league. And with so many competitions it means that top teams have to focus on only one of them most of the time, which creates more upsets.

No one really expects a newly promoted team to automatically start competing at the highest level. Their first goal is to stay in the top division for the next season, which gives them more money, which allows them to buy better players and get better facilities. Eventually if they keep this up it allows them to actually compete for trophies and CL/EL/ spots.

>>154580403
What boggles me though is that these are all run in parallel throughout the year. It feels like a stacking effect where each competition is diluting all the rest. Champions League in particular feels so out of place doing this. It ought to be thought of as the postseason with this year's squads. Not something played based off last year's squads.

Also fuck off with Europa League, that is an absolute cope trophy to throw a bone at midtablers.