Aside from the chauvinistic Brazilians and the Swede who always replies "No one is above Pelé," nobody in Spanish considers Pelé the GOAT. Am I wrong? Is there anyone else besides the self-deceived and indoctrinated Brazilians and that Swede who thinks Pelé was the GOAT?Just look at this >>154748569 It's always the same Brazilians using the same videos from youtube channels like "retrofutbol58" and always the same Swede using the same image. One would think they've convinced someone over the years, but it's been quite the opposite.
>>154755930>nobody in Spanishnobody in /sp/
all south american football players are overrated
>>154755930No, of course not. The debatte is simply impossible. The standards and the level of professionalism have shifted so much, many of the old goats wouldnt even make it pro nowadays. There are of course exceptions, i watched a match from George Best and he looked insanely good. And Maradonna, if raised in todays professional environment is the closest to Messi we've seen so i think he deserves to be in the debate. But the whole thing is pointless to mull over anyway, there hasnt been anything like messi before, he is a genuine freak of nature, and the undisputed goat.
>>154756263This, I mean I personally don't get the hype. I watched some plays of Pele and well.... yeah, in his time and space sure he outdid the rest consistently but he doesn't really stand out like Maradona.
>>154756200Compared to who?
No one is above Pelé
>>154756263>he is a genuine freak of natureAll naturally HGH infused
>>154756263These are the players of the era that you have seen small highlight compilations. There were many contemporaries of Best and Maradona who were also extremely talented, is not like they were anomalies on a vaccum
>>154756371desu chauvinistic and indoctrinated brazilians are killing Pele's legacy.
Nobody was loved like peléNobody incorporated football like peléAnd he managed to have world cup winning performances at 17 and 30He was good in every fundamentalHe was ahead in physical form: could reach high speed and jump very high. He speaheaded new moves. The swede defender in 1958 didnt understand what had happened when pelé lobbied the ball over him.
>>154756432Lol. sp users keep trying to downplay pelé. They take out goals in friendlies but keep messi and cr7 goals in friendlies. They lie about a lot of things, like he not being a factor in the world cups. They come up with copes like "he only won jukes rimet" .there is a dedicated pelé hate thread made by a dutch right now. I dont think it is made primarily out of racism (it is mostly a generational thing) but it is also a factor since his color is often mentioned
>>154756423I only mentioned those where ive seen at least a match to which Pele, Best and Maradonna belong. Im sure there are many more exceptions but Pele isnt one of them.
>>154756440Pele is the Pong of football
>>154756440>>154756484You're not convincing anyone with all that nationalist rhetoric. People have access to YouTube and Pelé's audiovisual repertoire and they see how dysfunctional the image is compared to the narrative they've been told. It doesn't add up. Yours is simply narrative, a fabrication. You and your compatriots are doing Pelé a disservice in your attempts to position him as the GOAT and you don't even realize it.
>>154755930I don'tand actually only boomers rate him so high
>>154755930he won 3 world cups and represented soccer on the simpsons, he's the objective GOAT of all timesoccerfags just hate him because he's black and it costs them white people points
>>154755930It depends on what standards you use. For me> peak: R9> career: Messi> accomplishments: PeléBut in general, comparing between eras is retarded, specially when the level of violence allowed and rules changed so much. The only way I can make sense of it is thinking> What's the level of the average competition this guy played against and how much was he than them? And Pelé not only played in the most stacked league at the time, but also dominated them. At times he seemed 50 years ahead of the game. Messi never looked this dominant in comparison, R9 never looked this dominant in comparison. Other players do not belong in this conversation imo.
>>154756514>Pele is an Atari.That's a good one.
>pele is invalid because he played in the past >but pumping messi full of HGH doesn't invalidate anythingnever understood thismessi is basically the barry bonds of soccer as far as i can tell
>>154756576>and how much was he than them?>and how much better was he than them?*
>>154755930>>154756263You guys are funny.No shit The quality of football is much higher today than 60 years ago, it has nothing to do with how much you can get achieve with what you've got. >many of the old goats wouldnt even make it pro nowadaysYeah, and Pissi got injected with growth hormones when he was a child. If he was born in Pele era, he would've been a circus midget. The point is, footballer today are better because they live in an environment that is designed for them to be at this level, something that didn't exist in Pele's time.Pele didn't have his personal trainer, physiotherapist, dietician, sport psychologist, manager and a whole bunch of brands to support him, modern footballers do.Pele didn't live in an era in which football is a multi billion dollar business, modern footballers do.He, and other players in his era were essentially on their own, and he went to win 3 WCs, something that no one has ever done and will never do ever again.
Pelé does give Mr Satan vibes but he still a legit GOAT candidate.3 WCs in his curriculum, dominated the Brazilian league (the most competitive league in the world at the time), dominated the europeans clubs whenever he played against them.
>>154756662trvke
>>154756670>dominated the europeans clubs whenever he played against them.based this is 10x more impressive than being cuckolded by europeans and playing for their clubsPele truly represents the glory days of south america in soccer
>does nothing against argentinahttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taça_das_Nações
>>154756662You forgot to mention that he also played in the most violent era of the sport, in which teams had specific players hunt for the legs of the opposing stars. Modern stars are protected at all times, they rarely get a light slap nowadays.
>>154756734Peito Frio
>>154756662As always, using ad hominem attacks against players who surpassed Pelé. That's why nobody in /sp/ takes you seriously.>>154756670>>154756737These are your allies: other chauvinistic and blindly nationalistic Brazilians, a Swede, and now an American. You're alone in your campaign to position Pelé as the GOAT. I don't even intend to humiliate you or argue with you, but I ask in all honesty, don't you realize your nationalistic blindness regarding Pelé?
>>154756809i have no dog in this soccer fight, i'm simply pointing out pele has>the most success, 3 WCs, which are seemingly super sacred in soccer>is the official representative of it in the simpsons>didn't get cuckolded by europeans like modern latinx soccer players doi know you're born into an era of humilation where europeans cuck all your players from you and you have to grin and bear it and try to make your subservience to them into a "win" somehow but pele is from a Proud Era where you Fought and Defeated enemy nation states and their clubs, now you are their sports colonial slaves and victims.I can't imagine such a horrifically shameful fate. My country cucks others and steals their players in our countless sports. Europeans steal yours in your only one.
>>154756809I presented facts.You presented nothing.You lost.Close the web browser, turn off your computer and go outside.
I forgot the balkanized hispanic latin american world has a massive inferiority complex to brazil.This is probably a big reason the chilean is seething about pele
>>154756809No one needs to campaign FOR Pelé, only against
>>154756662thank you fot repeating what i said, but youre missing out on the point: There are football players that are so talented that if youd put them in todays environment they would still be world class just because of raw skill and talent. Pele doesnt belong in that group, hes only a phenomenon of his time. Its not his fault but it just doesnt make sense to include a player in the GOAT debate who on all levels, including talent doesnt match up with any of the other contestants, sports science or not.
>>154755930I think and i do t care for argentinos or europeans opinions
>>154756879>>154756943>>154756989There you go. You are proving my point.regarding the fact that the only ones who see Pelé as the GOAT are other brazilians for nationalistic reasons, a swede, and an american. Amen. Sadly this board is dead and there has been no organic generational replacement for years.
>>154757012>There are football players that are so talented that if youd put them in todays environment they would still be world class just because of raw skill and talent. Pele doesnt belong in that groupIF you say so, Mr. Time Traveler
Pele is still the goat, and only Messi comes close.
they're the #1 and #2 of latin america but they're hated by their posters online because they're black and indio
>>154757454argies in /sp/ are bros tho
>>154755930GOAT debates are dumb. You cannot single out an individual, in a team sport, over everyone else across many different eras, different positions, different competitions. And since it is a team sport, every player can only shine if the team has cohesion and enough quality on its own. And even if you ignore all of that, you can still argue about the number and status of titles, about peak, about longevityJust let it be. Pelé is a legend and historically about as high as it gets, even though the sport has developed a lot since his time. He probably had more than enough talent to make a name for himself today as well. Same for some other players of the past. Just appreciate legends of the past on general and don’t try to rank and compare them to much, much less with players of today
The issue with any "GOAT" discussion is that it inevitably falls into this meaningless debate of>Current Guy could run laps against Old Guys!>If Old Guy had all the innovations at his disposal he would run laps against Current Guys!and so forthThe most meaningful argument pro Pelé in this meaningless discussion is that he was very dominant against his peers (other players in the league) that were very dominant against the world
>>154755930One of my favorite games ever is Hamburg vs Santos in 1962. It ended 3:3, and it got hyped as the clash between the best German team, led by THE German football hero, Uwe Seeler, and the magical Brazilians around Pelé, of course.Pelé and Seeler were really a cut above the rest. I think both of them were missing a sidekick, thoughIn any case, watching that game (on YouTube) convinced me Pelé was a truly special player. Although the same goes for Seeler to a sizable degreeThese players would get wrecked in today’s leagues if you were to teleport them from the 60s into today’s game. But that’s because they were so great they pushed the game forward and made it grow. The big icons of the past didn’t have less talent than the stars of today
>>154756662>Environment to reach high level didn't exist in Kekle's timeYou are retarded, in football all you need is track and field training + skill training + tacticsBrazilians had strong T& F training and spent half of their life honing their skills since childhood, tactics were bad everywhereEuropeans were barely pro
The debate basically ended when Messi won the WC.
Pele or not, it doesn't matter. any legend from that time would categorically mog the ever living fuck out of these pussies with access to all the modern shit, if you think any player from the fake and gay era holds a candle to those old timers then you're beyond retarded and there's no hope for you
>>154755930he's the GOAT. 3 world cups. nuff said
>needing refball to beat urugay
>>154755930
>>154755930You're wrong
when pele played there also was no yellow cards/red cards, and the ball was 3 times heavier and the pitches were piss poor in qualityno wonder there was lots more space, if you tried to press harder you’d be completely tired in the first 20 minspeople also forget the dedication to the sport pele had: the team in the 1970 world cup received astronaut-levels of physical training, brazil’s federation asked NASA to prepare coaching plans for their players, extremely ahead of the time
>>154756662> Pele didn't have his personal trainer, physiotherapist, dietician, sport psychologist, manager and a whole bunch of brands to support him, modern footballers do.That’s not true, if there was a thing Brazilians were ahead of the time than european teams was into adopting sports doctors, physios and psychologists into their football programsBrazil up until the late 90s was the best place to recover from a sports injury, R9 only recovered from what was considered a career ending injury ar the time because he was helped by Brazilian physios.After 2002 and the "miracle" recovery of Ronaldo, Europeans actually catched up on that because the doctors thought it was impossible.
>>154761315Yes, in 1990. In 1958, 1962, and 1970, there was no highly advanced medicine anywhere.
>>154756514I'd say maybe Space Invaders, but it's still a very good comparison.
>>154757874>>154758229Accurate and true, but also lame. Without endless shitty GOAT debate spam, we'd have almost no repetitive cancerous b8 at all.The real GOAT is Alan Shearer anyway because he is a white man who played in a white league.
>>154756263So Michael Jordan and Larry Bird can't be compared to players like Stephen Curry or Lebron James? If Pele was born nowadays he'd also have access to all the training and sports medicine available today as well. So it's basically a comparison on sheer talent. Maradona, Ronaldo and many other star players have said Pele was one of the best so I don't understand why people here tend to doubt it.
>>154755930The G stands for greatest, and greatness doesn't necessarily mean the best as it factors in your overall legacy. And of all the footballers in history, Pele arguably does have the greatest legacy.
If Pele was around today, what would we call him on /sp/?>Pelel>Lele>Penle>Plebson Arantes do Missimiento>Poolay>Pelgay
>>154756515The whole world recognized him as the goat. I cant be forbidden of rating him because he happens to b brazilian
garrincha was better
zico was better
>>154755930>nobody in Spanish considers Pelé the GOATcerrá el culo chileno alcahuete
